Star Trek Strange New Worlds 2.03 "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" REVIEW

[@CT_Phipps]

I want to pay for a t-shirt to send you that says, "I saved Khan, romanced Kirk, and saved the Federation but all I got was this lousy broken watch."

[@DonWan47]

😂😂😂😂

[@bemasaberwyn55]

You win

[@nancyjay790]

Don't we all want that shirt?

[@persephone342]

Absolutely! My heart just broke for La’an!! Damn girl! You had a bed and Stephan, I mean Kirk on your room! La’an, you should’ve grabbed his hand and lead him to the sheets!! I loved the Vampire Diaries removal of the shirt throwback! Thanks SNW for that!!

[@Vid_The_Impaler]

I think this would be the first merch i"d buy from a youtuber or some such... yes. please make this a thing.

[@ArticWS]

They didn't throw out their communicators. They don't have them on them. They throw out their uniforms with their badges... which aren't com-badges, because this isn't the TNG era.

[@tasha7726]

I keep forgetting that detail myself about their uniform badges. TOS era had the flip phones.

[@kahlilheslop7883]

True, they made a point to mention that they had no technology at all to help them with the mission (phasers, tricorders, communicators, etc.)

[@ArticWS]

@@kahlilheslop7883 They establish they haven't brought coms or tri-corders to the past, and then they repeat it later. It's not subtle.

[@jgvillan01]

It's not like Kirk made that very plain when he and La'an arrived on Earth.

[@cryofpaine]

I had that moment too of like "WAi... oh right." The fact that they're metal badges rather than sewn on makes it more confusing.

[@cloudwatcher608]

Fantastic acting at the end by Christina Chong. When she broke down while processing everything that had happened, she portrayed every emotion so well

[@RickReasonnz]

I admire her ability to portray herself as very "stiff upper lip" English stoic but then... wow, she really felt strongly, didn't she.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

Agreed. She was fantastic. First saw her as a bit-part in an episode of Doctor Who where she managed emotional weight with just a few scripted words, was pleasantly surprised to see her get a bigger part in SNW, and was really impressed with her performance basically carrying this story.

[@NextWorldVR]

Nice to actually see more than one emotion portrayed unlike Michael Burnham's 'Generic _Emotion_ Face'

[@tobarjaime]

RLM has a very good depiction of the Discovery scripts…. I really can’t not stand Burnham….

[@matthewhearn9910]

Couldn't stop giggling during the episode imagining how Ricardo Montalban's Khan would express "Captain Kirk. What are your intentions with my great--great-great-etc.-granddaughter?"

[@williammitchell4417]

That was Lol's line.

[@lexielyons5739]

I want to see a flash forward episode where she reads a report after the events of Space Seed. See how she feels about Kirk after his decision.

[@matthewhearn9910]

@@lexielyons5739 Well we know she never visited…. Ungrateful grandkids….

[@generalilbis]

​@@lexielyons5739I think she'd struggle with wanting to tell Kirk that he should have phasered his ass to ash or gaseous vapour instead of just marooning him and his followers on Ceti Alpha V...but eventually agree giving him his own isolated planet to rule over was a decent choice morally. Be a neat "What If...?" story to have La'an still on the Enterprise during "Space Seed" and getting to face down her ancestor.

[@technofilejr3401]

Khan…I ..intend to smash….hard

[@bjorn00000]

Oh and holy HOT DAMN what broke my heart was the irony that Kirk was mainly focused on La'An's timeline as being positive because his brother was still alive... while us as the audience know that his brother and his wife die just a couple years later.

[@MrDesmorto]

He is alive for the moment.

[@bjorn00000]

@@MrDesmorto Yes, but it gives extra weight to Operation: Annihilate! beyond putting a fake mustache on Shatner and having him never mention Sam afterwards.

[@Texasjim2007]

Sam had at least one son let's remember. Peter Kirk was Jim's nephew and survives the parasite that kills Sam and his wife. Nobody lives forever but if for example my father who died in 1989 had been killed storming the beaches of Nagasaki as he was preparing to do when Truman dropped the bomb that ended WW2 not only he wouldn't get to live long and prosper but neither would I or my two sisters and their four daughters and two grandsons. Like Jim I never had any children myself but agree with Robert Heinlein that those who do are inherently more valuable to the human race than those who don't. Without that prehistoric African woman who was the common ancestor of everybody in the human race nothing anybody else did would matter since it never would have happened.

[@bjorn00000]

@@Texasjim2007 That is some weird-ass bullshit.

[@Texasjim2007]

​@@bjorn00000 Weird-ass bullshit is basically the description of science fiction however Heinlein gave a lecture to the U.S. Naval Academy once you can google called "The Pragmatics of Patriotism" that goes into more detail on the logic of having that worldview. If you weren't into weird-ass bullshit you'd be watching soap operas or sports instead of Star Trek. :)

[@jojobookish9529]

La'An's hair carries a weird amount of meaning for me. Its so tight, efficient, controlled. Such a reflection of how she clearly feels she Has To Be to overcome the weight of her name.

[@mauricionunes9572]

Well said... a reflection of her inner soul somehow.

[@kappa2275]

I loved the detail of the Romulan woman saying she'd been looking for a window to kill Khan since 1992, when the Eugenics Wars originally began according to TOS. Just a nice detail that explains in-universe how the Wars have been perpetually "in the near future" since the 60s... and besides, isn't time travel just the best way to explain inconsistencies?

[@andromidius]

Not to mention records were patchy at best after the chaos of WWIII. We have similar issues today with records being destroyed during WW1 and 2 - many dates of birth are unknown, events are guessed at based on secondary sources, sometimes with variations of decades.

[@kappa2275]

​@@brachiator1 Yeah maybe Sera getting killed means things are finally gonna start floating around the timeline a little less, or else eventually in real life we're going to approach First Contact Day lol

[@TheMsLourdes]

@@brachiator1 No need to reboot, they've just adjusted the dates quite nicely with Strange New Worlds. Please note that Khan is a child here so the time travel shenanigans and goings on pushed the project back a few years Which have pushed the eugnenics wars back a few years. Very cool way of doing it without being hugely explicit. Cept we can posit that if Khan was 10, that the Eugenics war takes place sometime in 2036-2040.

[@dragoninthewest1]

This is why I am convinced that For All Mankind is a secret prequel to Star Trek

[@JunkGaragehome]

@@kappa2275 i noticed when the temporal investigator took the device back and popped up the timeline the point that was highlighted the la'an went to moved back farther into the past of the timeline like it self corrected after it was done.

[@enhydralutra]

I absolutely loved the New York/Toronto joke because it has so many layers. Sure, Kirk doesn't know much about Earth, but also they usually film in Toronto (or Vancouver) and play it off as New York, so it's a very meta joke. On top of that, Toronto was originally called York, which is likely an unintentional layer but still.

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

That, I didn't know. Thank you for that information! 😏

[@perigraph6644]

An added bonus to that was that this episode can be best compared to "City on the Edge of Forever", which was set (but not filmed) in New York.

[@posindustries]

I appreciated the throw away line about how "this was SUPPOSED to happen in 1992" because it's basically the writers saying that, hey, if you notice something that doesn't line up with how a previous episode on a previous show portrayed something, it was probably because of a temporal agent.

[@ianh2950]

Yeah I'm glad that's resolved. Star Trek has had this issue since at least the Enterprise episode Detroit where they went back to 2004 and the Eugenics wars had clearly not happened yet.

[@BradTheAmerican]

@@ianh2950 Well, if the Eugenics Wars didn't take place in Detroit, then we certainly wouldn't see its affects in Detroit.

[@ianh2950]

@@BradTheAmerican The Eugenics wars were global wars that would certainly be noticed. Even if there was not a battle in Detroit itself, Detroit would still not look like normal 2004 Detroit as it did in Enterprise.

[@jonesthemoblin1400]

The Temporal agents have now become the "a wizard did it" of Star Trek."

[@BradTheAmerican]

@@ianh2950 The only geography we really know about the Eugenics Wars is that Khan took over a quarter of the world, from Asia to the Middle East. World War 2 was also a global war but you wouldn't see it anywhere from California to New York because the fighting happened in Europe and Asia. I agree that 2004 Detroit should not look like our 2004 Detroit. Unfortunately that's a result of writers wanting Star Trek's past to align with our present, because they seem to have an aversion to the concept of fictional universe, or have forgotten what the fiction part means in science fiction. They happily ignore any implications from the technological or societal diversions already shown to exist from the 60s to 90s in-universe.

[@celebro469]

The only UNBELIEVABLE thing about this whole episode is that: How many chess games of $5 do you play to afford 3 hotdogs, taxi, bus tickets AND A SUITE IN A LUXURY HOTEL!???

[@phillychick]

AND get through the border patrol twice with no IDs!

[@Rufudufus]

No kidding...That kind of suite would cost several thousand dollars a night in Toronto right now, assuming it’s right now perhaps they hacked an Airbnb situation and didn’t mention it.

[@richardvinsen2385]

Plus, wouldn’t you have to slap down some money when first challenging someone to a game?

[@nebulacoffee]

​@@phillychickYes, that really bothered me. 😂

[@addib926]

Me too! A bit immersion breaking. But the whole episode was good, so I‘ll let that fly😂

[@ONITru7h]

Her line about Khan being where he needs to be was about her acceptance of her name and her leaving behind that burden. It's an important line for the Laan.

[@ABCoLD-AOI]

The line about "You're right where you need to be" was actually about herself. It was part of her acceptance that even if she's not enjoying every moment of what she's doing, what she's doing was important, perhaps even vital. Also I thought it was fun that the time device was just a button for her and Kirk but the temporal agents could actually access higher functions. That and I want "I enjoyed the zigginess of it" to be a thing going forward.

[@superpheemy]

I really dig the teensey little nod to Pellia at the end. La'aan is gonna need someone to talk about this with who won't blow up the timeline. Dr. Mbenga alluded to La'aan needing to talk about her problems during the cold open, so that's an arc. Pellia recognized La'aan on the Pike-Enterprise bridge at the end.

[@fabrisseterbrugghe8567]

I thought Pellia (Pellea?, sic?) absolutely recognized her on the bridge at the end. I half expected a beep at La'an's door at the end.

[@mkang8782]

That was a nice, subtle detail.

[@tjfrizzi5965]

@@fabrisseterbrugghe8567I have a feeling that might come up in a later episode. Like she asks for the watch back... 😢

[@mauricionunes9572]

I agree. I hope they explore that variant in the future.

[@raphaelatienza]

Pelia meeting La'an has already happened even "before" this because Pelia is very knowledgeable in engineering by this time. The version of Pelia, that La'an met in the past, wasn't too knowledgeable in engineering (or she could be pretending). So the version of Pelia that caught Spock trying to steal the Enterprise is the Pelia that has already met La'an in the "past". Right?

[@camhusmj38]

Technically he played prime Kirk when La’an called him at the end.

[@jmarquiso]

True!

[@daniel385]

Nice catch!

[@Donnagata1409]

Got a point.

[@Geekus]

Which, bear in mind, is the first time that the character of James T. Kirk has appeared in canon on television since 1969. Whoa!

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

@@Geekus 1974

[@busterandloulou]

Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow is a soliloquy from Macbeth that cleverly captures much of what the play is about (and also this episode of SNW). It is about first chances and second chances, fleeting chances and only chances, and the fear that time is running out. It was an excellent episode. I have watched it twice already.

[@AhruKhaawe]

My first thought at the ending was that she could talk to Pelia. Technically, Pelia was involved. I hope they do that in a future episode, as I think that would be a really cool character beat, especially to bring Pelia in closer as part of the crew.

[@Jelly_Skelly]

Maybe. She only told Pelia as much as she needed to know, but I hope so too.

[@claudiadarling9441]

@@Jelly_Skelly La'an can be reserved about it, trying to follow order, while Pelia just ignores them. La'an tries to get Pelia to play along to no avail. Comedy insues.

[@katrose5179]

I feel like they had Pelia say she had a bad memory for faces to avoid that happening.

[@andromidius]

Its possible she wouldn't remember anything. The timeline was altered, and there have been situations in previous episodes where the events get erased. La'an is protected from the temporal changes with the device, and future temporal agents probably more subtly fixed things in the aftermath (like in that Voyager episode - stop the main event, then go back and clean things up if possible). They may have even been rather Men In Black about it and just showed up and erased her short term memory, replace the missing watch and remove any signs there was a temporal incursion.

[@JohnnyHughes1]

​@@andromidiusinitially I thought that as well.. But actually, Palia was in the timeline and gave her the watch. That actually has to happen. I'm not sure how Palia's memory works. She may or may not remember everything over thousands of years. I guess we'll see.

[@thebitterfig9903]

One little Easter egg I loved: when La’an and Kirk walk past an out-of-focus poster for… Strange New Worlds. The silhouette of the logo and the shape of Anson Mount in his gold uniform can just barely be recognized.

[@tyronebibbins7957]

Don't you dare act like you regretted that hot dog line. Hell, it made my day.

[@richardvinsen2385]

It could have been worse. She could have talked about when Captain Kirk offers you his sausage…

[@Donnagata1409]

@@richardvinsen2385 It was tremendously funny. In a way, If Kirk is a "hot dog", him eating a hot dog... Does that qualify as cannibalism?

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

​@@Donnagata1409 That reminds me of ANOTHER cool sci-fi show, The X-Files. The PARTICULAR 📁 file I refer to was the one in which Agt. Mulder (F.B.I.) switches bodies with Agent Morris Fletcher (N.S.A.). "IF I kill him, would it be murder, or suicide?"

[@miss_gray]

It was both cool AND weird seeing Canadian money so prominently featured on Star Trek, of all things! Pelia continues to steal whatever scene she is in, and I love her for that!

[@MsKathleenb]

I just adore Carol Kane. She's so good at everything she's in.

[@PHDWhom]

As well as several very precious and priceless artifacts from all over the world, but hey, boredom, right?

[@selorkiith4461]

Well... Pelia just continues to steal would be more appropriate?

[@michaelpattie9248]

Seeing the contemporary Canadian money, I'm not sure if the takeaway is that we can never change our money now or that we should change it as soon as possible.

[@miss_gray]

@@michaelpattie9248 What's wrong with our banknotes? I think most of us either like them, or don't really care either way.

[@robertwalker8453]

Laan realizes that her ancestor, Khan, not existing would create the alternate timeline that Kirk was from. In order for the Federation to exist Khan had to exist. In order for her reality to exist there had to be the terribleness of Khan. Essentially the was some validation that she was not a mistake or an extension of the evil of Khan.

[@andromidius]

And the people she saved would have probably died too. Its a variation of the "would you kill baby Hitler?" question. The answer should always be no - because punishing someone for something they haven't done yet is wrong, and also may lead to worse things (in this case, delaying human development so they never made contact with the Vulcans and thus the Federation never being formed and the Romulans start taking over the Quadrant unopposed).

[@Somajsibere]

wait, but then why does the nuclear reactor explode in Kirks timeline?

[@mai_komagata]

@@Somajsibere probably a sideeffect of the romulans attacking the facility. Maybe there is a larger confrontation with security etc.

[@fabrisseterbrugghe8567]

It was the easiest way to kill Khan in the Earthfleet Kirk's timeline. The government admitted to the Cold Fusion Reactor --because with the explosion, how could they deny it -- but didn't admit to trying to create genetic super beings.

[@Somajsibere]

@@mai_komagata yeah most likely

[@bazbloodwolf]

One thing I wish they had briefly touched on was when Kirk said that La'an was an alien abductee to get in good with the conspiracy theorist/Romulan agent that she ACTUALLY is an alien abductee. I know her experience with the Gorn has been explored pretty in depth and I'm sure will be even more so later in the season but I think it might have been a nice touch as her and Kirk get to know each other if she opened up about that a little.

[@persephone342]

She was about to tell him, but Kirk kisses her! I’d of STFU too, and let him kiss me again!

[@nick5661]

I found it funny that the Romulan was like “I got to kill Kirk” it’s just funny that all her work gets undone.

[@lorenzwinterhoff8049]

Regarding the line La'an ends on with Kahn, "You're right where you need to be." is a very cathartic line if you consider that she's saying it to herself as much as to him. Having been that person with Imposter Syndrome and questioning my place in the world literally all day every day for years, that kind of thought process of allowing yourself to BE where you are without wondering if you are in the right place or not is amazingly freeing.

[@Texasjim2007]

The fact that Romulan computers show Khan to have been necessary for the Federation to exist much like Adolf Hitler being necessary for the United Nations and Israel to exist is basically what I interpreted the remark to be. I much preferred this version of Khan whom I could easily imagine growing up into Mr. Fantasy Island to the "white washed" version in "Star Trek Into Darkness" who was inferior to the original in pretty much everything.

[@lorenzwinterhoff8049]

@@Texasjim2007 The Kelvin timeline lost me when they put Kirk in the core instead of Spock. Not only did they totally ignore the original reason Spock made the sacrifice (Vulcan physiology hardier etc) they made Spock have an emotional reaction to Kirk's death that wasn't warranted for the timeline, as the originals had been friends for decades when the Genesis event happened, where the Kelvin pair barely got out of spacedock in comparison. I saw it in theatre and was literally shaking with anger over it, ruined my night out with my friend.

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

@@lorenzwinterhoff8049 I laughed out loud when Kelvinverse Spock scream-shouted Khan's name...it was absurd and just bad plagiarism at that point.

[@lorenzwinterhoff8049]

@@Corbomite_Meatballs I was just so shocked they did that. My brain fritzed.

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

I (respectfully) disagree with you two. I found Kirk's choice to sacrifice himself interesting, because I didn't know if he chose to fix the core due to have seeing it in Ambassador Spock's mind--- OR him coming up with it all on his own. Also, when Spock screamed out, " *Khan!* " I thought it plausible, as those are among the *VANISHINGLY FEW* circumstances in which he'd ALLOW himself to express such emotion. (In addition, I enjoyed Spock's performance--- as he felt like the "Frank Miller" version of Spock. I imagined his internal monologue to sound something like this: "You took my Captain hostage, Khan. But THIS time, you'll take no further hostages. THIS time, I'm taking NO prisoners. And with logic, I realize that there is nothing wrong with you that I can't fix--- with this 🔫 phaser."

[@terryhinch]

I laughed out loud at them standing in front of the Eaton Centre and Kirk announcing it must be New York. Because so many productions shoot in Canada and pretend it's the US. And I laughed harder when La'an corrected him. That said, in the bridge scene they have an ambulance in shot that is a FDNY ambulance that does not belong alongside the other Toronto Ambulances. That has to be another visual reversal gag, right? There's no way they didn't intentionally use that prop ambulance as a joke about Toronto being shot for NYC.

[@Rufudufus]

Or a sloppy graphics department or vehicle wrangler, ie that’s what they had on the lot….Toronto EMS is not going to loan one out. good catch though I stand corrected those are Toronto EMS, or at least the colours and graphics are a pretty good match, and then the one stray red and white behind the chase vehicle Kirk steals … Maybe shot on different days, someone caught the FU? “…..I can make Plomeek soup in a toilet “ 🤣

[@jowj85]

Speaking of the Department of Temporal Investigations re. Trials and Tribble-ations, and the time cops in Voyager, the graphics of the device La'an is given are a direct call-back to the graphics used on the 29th Century USS Relativity in the VOY episode "Relativity". So you're spot on with them kind of bridging the two. They did it with the graphics!

[@petekwando]

Thinking of predestination paradox: imagine you are a hyperintelligent little boy who has been raised in a lab, probably told you are destined to change the world by your creators, and then two ladies show up, fight, one is shot and disintegrates themselves, and then the second tells you that you are right where you need to be, and disappears in a flash of light. Odds are pretty good that is going to give you a ridiculously huge sense of your own importance/destiny.

[@PatriciaCross]

I laughed at the idea of Khan raging at finding out his great grandaughter had a thing with an alternate version of his arch nemesis.

[@ivorjawa]

La’an ends the episode in despair, realizing how much better a 21st century iPad is than a 23rd century PADD.

[@TyrMcDohl]

I feel like the time agent chose La'an because it would become clear to her once she picked up the bread crumbs that the Romulan agent's goal was to kill Khan, and that it would become an existential goal for her. If Khan is killed, then La'an ceases to exist. The hint is first dropped when Kirk doesn't recognize her name, because Khan wouldn't have become the superman to start the Eugenics Wars. And it's kinda fucked up when it goes full circle: In a way, Kirk dies protecting Khan, who would eventually go on to kill his best friend.

[@asteven8]

This! When Kirk didn't recognize her name, that's the moment I knew she was connected.

[@robinknight2251]

Hotel, in Toronto with no reservations and no credit card. Toronto to Vermont takes at least 8 hours, because it goes through 2 of Canada's largest cities and across a border after an incident that would make border crossing impossible. That drove me crazy.

[@jenergomes]

Ohhhh, now it makes some sense why the time agent searched for La'an!!! Thank you! I also thought that he should look for his workmates, but, in this case, we hardly would have this episode. So: Writer's wish. Explicit signs for secret labs recalls me of the Get Smart series. ^_^ Indeed, to me the second time agent was extremely insensitive with La'an, but today I was thinking that perhaps she didn't know what happened between La'an and Jim, and also she could be treating her as the reports she had about La'an's profile: Cold, practical, ethical. I was sorry for La'an, I wish I could give her a good hug and a shoulder. Two other things I liked in this episode: - The audience was respected, they didn't explain unnecessary things, and we connected some dots. This also helped to keep a good pace. - The Sera's comments and explanations about time displacements, that "fixed" TOS date references to our timeline and other series, connecting the Temporal War and other time travels to this event shifts. Adorable!

[@robert_bbiii]

I felt that they needed her to go back to be able to get into the room. To save Khan. Also loved Kirk at the end. Oh what did my brother do now? Then slyly asking her out in a very friendly way of I can tell you funny stories about my brother. Also liked the bringing up that some things just happen. All changes to the timeline, read we passed the time in the real world and it didn't happen, and these things still happen.

[@annikathewitch3950]

The Toronto thing was also a reference to the fact that a lot of tv shows/movies set in "new york" are filmed in Toronto

[@camhusmj38]

The funniest bit is when Kirk says Noonian Soong - linking back to Picard Season 2 and Enterprise.

[@jmarquiso]

I mean datas creator wad originally named after Khan as well

[@YesTHATJohnSmith]

Quite true. I remember reading quotes from G.R., saying that he'd hoped his old friend (Mr. Noonien Singh) would get in touch with him (should he happen to see the shows).

[@KORichardson]

*spoiler* I think La'an had one of the most well earned cries in all of Star Trek

[@freddyfaerie3499]

I honestly thought the reason she was chosen was simply because her DNA could open the doors, shes the only person that can access Khan

[@Rufudufus]

…. the only person in THIS series. She the episode’s MacGuffin, but a very competent and emotionally versatile MacGuffin apparently … kinda hot too.

[@freddyfaerie3499]

@@Rufudufus macguffin yes but not just this series we've never met any other descendants of his apart from her father being mentioned and her brother and she's the only one who's ever joined starfleet that we know of not to mention her entire family and colony have been murdered by the Gorn

[@deanmaynard8256]

Gotta give props to Christina Chong. Every time I see her she impresses me more and more.

[@imthestein]

The moment Kirk showed up in the episode and I realized it was a time travel episode I immediately said to my wife, “Kirk was a menace”. It’s my favorite go to any time that time travel appears in Star Trek

[@ColinfromCanada]

Re: Why La'an was put into this situation, in addition to what Jessie stated, we were also shown that her DNA could open the door in the finale. That's why it had to be her.

[@simonashtear2739]

My train of thought during the climax of the episode: "Kirk is fine. He's fine. He's fine, right? He's fine. All that puffy warm Toronto-weather clothing could easily hide a bullet-proof metal plate. That's what gave him the confidence to bluff. He doesn't like to lose, especially when Khan is involved. He constantly cheats death. That wasn't blood, those were extra ketchup packets from when he went back to get that second hot dog. It's the dramatic principle of Chekov's Hot Dog. Don't mention it if it doesn't come back into play, later. He's going to come back, jump the Romulan from behind, and save the day, right? He's fine." 😢

[@yetzt]

we actually get prime kirk (as a cameo of sorts) at the end when she calls him to ask for sams birthplace.

[@anvalisok]

This is really like the Doctor not killing Davros as a child.

[@johntauren]

Or like the Doctor not killing the daleks before they get started.

[@xj10888]

Just love how she leaves a loaded handgun in a child's room, Topflight Security Officer.🤣😂🤣😅

[@friday6448]

Part of me really liked the fact that they acknowledged the retcon about the time that the Eugenics Wars happen. Originally it was supposed to be in the 90s, but Star Trek has kinda done a Terminator and keeps pushing it and WW3 back the closer we get to the date in real life. So we get a line here about how it was supposed to happen in 1992, it kept being delayed by the Temporal Wars but time keeps reasserting itself to make the events happen. So now they happen around the same time vaguely after 2024. It's just a fun nerdy thing I've noticed recently and it's nice that it seems the writers are aware of the date change

[@theatregeek299]

I found it kind of funny that AU Kirk dies essentially because he said "You won't" to someone who definitely would Though felt so sad for La'an this episode. She really gets told she needs someone to talk to at the beginning of the episode just to experience something horrifying she's not allowed to talk about by the end. I too, would be crying alone in a dark room at that point.

[@Texasjim2007]

The fact that Carol Kane who is absolutely stealing every scene she's in recalls having met La'an in the past and was probably inspired to become an engineer and join the Enterprise crew from meeting actually does give La'an somebody to talk about this with regardless of what the Time Spook at the end told her.

[@KORichardson]

I loved this episode. I loved Toronto getting to be Toronto. I loved that so many of the places I've worked and played are in the episode.

[@Rufudufus]

So true, I snorked audibly on that scripted “reveal”, so tedious seeing the city you grew up in lamely passed off as something it most definitely is not. I often find it distracting from the flow of a show or a movie. Shout out to the writers, producers or whoever made that call. Fair’s fair, if you’re going to mess with downtown traffic for an afternoon for a car chase 🤷🏻‍♂️... CN Tower is a bit of a give away, although they could have cgi’d that out as almost as easily as the cgi’d in the bridge to, what? Tommy Thompson Park..... Rochester? They said it was the world’s longest bridge

[@ptiger96]

@Rufudufus yeah, not getting the bridge thing. Build across the widest part of Lake Ontario to get to... Rochester??

[@KORichardson]

@@ptiger96 on two occasions I have flown from YYZ to Rochester NY to visit a client so, as ridiculous as the idea of this bridge is, I would be a hypocrite if I spoke out against it. 😂

[@robshimer]

I liked how the Romulan mentioned that Kahn was supposed to be in the 90s when TOS put him. Having the Time Cops from DS9 was good. Riverside is now canon. Now she has to think of a reason why she was out of uniform.

[@salenstormwing]

This episode feels like a suitcase after a vacation; I'm gunna be unpacking details from this "trip" for a while. Also... that analogy to start the video... Jess. No words. Gunna go put that in the pile of stuff to unpack for later.

[@elim_inator]

I really enjoyed this episode. I loved the little nod to the timeline inconsistencies between TOS and later iterations from the Romulan spy, when she said something along the lines of "this should have happened in 1992, I've been stuck here for fifty years", because it just shows how changes of the timeline are an explicit part of Trek canon.

[@MrFearDubh]

Paul Wesley did get to play the Prime Universe Kirk in the last scene via the iPad FaceTime or whatever the Star Trek equivalent name is.

[@johngingras]

Not gonna lie, if my brother died, I would be willing to erase myself and my timeline to ensure that he were alive again.

[@ryderlynch2281]

Something I liked about this episode was the subtle retcon of when the Eugenics Wars happened in the Star Trek lore. In addition to the Romulan agent's comment about her ears, she also mentions how the Eugenics Wars were suppose to start in the 1990s and that she has been stuck on Earth for the past 30 years. From the episode Space Seed, we know that in the original canon the Eugenics Wars were in the 90s because of Spock's dialogue on the subject. But here the agent's comments leave no doubt that the timelime La'an is attempting to restore has already been altered somewhere to cause the Eugenics Wars to occur later than they did before. I know it's television writers retconning lore, but they did it so well. And it tied in well with the Picard season 2 Easter egg of Adam Soong looking at the Project Khan file. I could see Soong being a scientist at the Institute that created Khan. It could have been a nice chance for a cameo appearance by an older Adam Soong played by Brent Spiner. I would have liked it if the episode had told us when La'an and Kirk traveled to. And I would have liked to have had an indication of how old Khan was here too. The episode never explicitly states when in the past it occurs. Given that Adam Soong looked at the Project Khan file in 2024, the year Picard season 2 was mostly set in, and the age of the young actor that played Khan, I'd hazard a guess that La'an and Kirk were somewhere around 2035. Seventeen years from now, though that's only an estimate. Another thing that I liked about this episode was the when La'an shot the Romulan agent, you notice her blood is green. I mean, she could have had red blood and it be explained as part of her genetic transformation to be able to live among humans, but the green blood was a nice touch. One aspect I hope they follow up on is Pelia. I have to wonder if she recognized La'an since they'd interacted in the past. The temporal agent in the end tells La'an not to discuss the events of the episode with anyone, but surely Pelia must remember meeting La'an in the past. Is she going to mention it in a future episode? Probably not, but it'd be nice. And will a romance between La'an and Kirk happen? We know he later meets Carol Marcus and has a child with her, but did he have a relationship with La'an before that? God I can hear the fanboys howling already. As for the whole "Would you kill a child, knowing he'll turn into a monster that commits genocide, or let him live?" question, I liked the resolution here. One, because I'm happy that La'an has the morals and ethics not to harm a child. Two, because I would like to think that La'an realizes that maybe humanity needed the Eugenics Wars, the Second Civil War, and the Third World War to finally push it into coming together to create the utopia society she lives in. The timeline we see when La'an finds herself on Kirk's Enterprise could easily have been the timeline she returned to if she had killed Khan. A final thought, though I'm certain I wish I had included more later, is that I liked the fact that La'an still had the watch she acquire in the past at the end of the episode. One, because it served as a memento of those events for her. Two, because it could serve as a means for those events to come up later. Imagine, Pelia sees the watch and innocently says, "I was wondering if you were going to return that?" Well, enough of this comment essay. Probably one of the longer comment you'll receive on this review, but I like to think critically about stuff. See you next week. Maybe.

[@maunzekatze1535]

@ryderlynch2281 About the concrete year into which La'an and Kirk might have traveled to - didn't the Romulan say she had been on Earth since 1992, and has been there trying to get her mission done for 30 years by now? Taking that literally, that would mean they traveled into the year 2022.

[@spykesta]

I am a child of the 60's and From the age of 7 till 14 I only wanted to be Captain James T. Kirk, then I saw Star Wars and wanted to emulate Han Solo, but I kept going back to the TOS Kirk, nothing will ever resonate with me more. Even today at 60yoa I was so excited for Paul Wesley to drop those subtle Shatner hints, The opening scene when he swivels the Chair in the "Slouch" was perfect. and his Cadence and Inflections were starting to be on point especially with the statement “who are you, and what the hell are you doing on My ship”. And driving when he first started was a nod to "A Piece of The Action".

[@aaronring4704]

We're used to the comm badges of TNG and beyond, but, in this era, they establish in S:2 of Discovery that the communicators are handheld, with the comm badges, as we know them, are a cutting edge technology reserved for clandestine organizations.

[@e.wintertashlin2903]

I was not really a fan of this episode, though maybe I’ll like it better on repeat viewings. That said I think Christina Chong gave a simply masterful performance. She was outstanding from start to heartbreaking finish

[@cloudwatcher608]

I was blown away by her, especially at the end of the episode. She’s fantastic, this whole cast is freaking fantastic

[@merricat3025]

​@cloudwatcher608 I agree cast is fantastic bit I did not like this episode; worst of this series so far but that's okay TNG had some bad episodes, too. Picard seasons 1 and 2 were terrible so bad I couldn't watch all of 2 but season 3 was great. What i was waiting for in Star Trek. Discovery, I gave up on that 💩 show after season 2 1/2. I think what made me dislike this episode because of time travel in Picard and Discovery and worried going down that horrid path. I loved TNG, TOS and Voyager. I even like animated series and I don't watch animated shows.

[@cloudwatcher608]

@@merricat3025 I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, I liked this ep because of how it developed La’an as a character and let Christina Chong shine but it’s definitely not the greatest episode of trek. I hope the writers take a LONG break from time travel because this trope is way overused

[@mauricionunes9572]

indeed she was. Kudos to her.

[@bairdrew]

All i'm going to say is i didn't know i needed this specific ship in my life. I've been thinking of La'an almost as a sort of "Commander Drummer" this whole time - just a sort of space badass. I'm glad they've given her more to be with this episode.

[@Donnagata1409]

Camina Drummer!!!! 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

[@Lemurion287]

I sometimes wonder if the agent chose La'an because the door opener at the institute had a genetic scanner and she could get in?

[@TrakoZG]

I am sure the agent got a nice talking to about how things got severely pear-shaped FUBAR, and how the unnamed agent had a severe lapse of judgement and the resulting change in Temporal Academy curricula *Cadet raising hand*: "How often does this happen?" *Instructor sighs, pulls out a bottle of whiskey from their desk and begins to chug it* Also, I'm glad for your hotdog intro, because I was thinking something similar, like so: *La'an calls Kirk* La'an: I want your hotdog, I mean... do you know a place that has good hotdogs? Sam was telling me about your love of hot dogs Kirk: Do I know you? How do you know Sam? Did he put you up to this? La'an: Sorry, I'm La'an Noonien-Singh, Chief of Security for the Enterprise. Kirk: what is this about hotdogs? La'an: ... *hangs up*

[@andromidius]

With how they've shown things its possible the instructor would have been the unnamed agent after being restored via more temporal manipulation, who has no actual memories of the event but was briefed on them.

[@andreslinares9507]

Well in the 23rd century, the insignia isn´t an integrated communicator. And they do mention that since they were zapped unexpectedly to the future they went without any kind of tech

[@TimboBaggins187]

La'am reasoning. 1. Grandfather Paradox. 2. She can pass the DNA scan on the door.

[@ellemueller]

The dialogue does indicate she must still carry a particular genetic marker that an Augment (or maybe even Soong?!) who was authorised to use the door had... but I totally see where you're coming from even though your perspective isn't a grandfather paradox because she didn't become her own ancestor.

[@TimboBaggins187]

@@ellemueller Except in the case of Futurama, the Grandfather Paradox isn't about becoming your own ancestor. It's about it being impossible to kill your own ancestor. A time agent would be highly motivated to choose La'an to go back to a time where she could kill a genocidal madman because she has reason to keep him alive. Also, can we just take a moment to appreciate Futurama's brilliant take on this very old philosophical science fiction trope.

[@generalsci3831]

Thank you for supporting Prodigy AND Willow.

[@theoges]

The gag about it being Toronto, not New York was definitely aimed at Canadians who are well aware of the "This was obviously filmed in Toronto but is standing in for a cleaner version of an American City." trope. If only they blew up the Gardiner Expressway, and not a fictitious bridge. Then I would really buy that this disaster would lead to a socialist utopia.

[@lesliedavid1244]

It was nice to see Toronto featured.

[@OpinionsNoOneCaresAbout]

Vulcans and humans don't seem to have an alliance...and yet Spock still exists. That guy's plot armor is like an adamantium/vibranium alloy.

[@travisboyle285]

He could just be pure Vulcan. Maybe Spock is a family name. Named after his great great grandfather or something.

[@dottyjyoung]

This became one of my favorite episodes, period. The moral questions, the character development of La'an, the combined success & despair she felt at the end....it was absolutely stellar.

[@dottyjyoung]

I loved Kirk playing chess. "Genius Kirk" is one of my favorite fanfiction tropes.

[@mauricionunes9572]

I couldn't agree more. My favorite episode so far too of the 2 years series.

[@andrews556]

I think the structuring was pretty good. I love the Starfleet Time Agents. Damn that would be a fun series idea.

[@kevinbtang]

They got to Vermont from Toronto awfully quick without a transporter - it may have been more realistic for Pelia to say that her place was in Buffalo or somewhere closer ...

[@LJsReactions]

This by far is one of the best episodes of new Star Trek so far...My heart broke for La'an she lost everything to gain everything...When the temporal agent asked La'an if she would risk the destruction of the time line for love she is a lot stronger than me because I would have risked more than that for love...

[@redeem147]

Come to Toronto and I'll take you on a location tour. But we'll use the subway - they took a pretty long walk.

[@ActuallyDoubleGuitars]

They spent all the money on the hotel. Couldn't afford a subway ticket.

[@chriscma1]

It looks as if the Eugenics Wars and WWIII have been convincingly combined to close up the dates from TOS. But, I will say it might have been very effective to have Pelia visit La'an in her quarters at the end.

[@HDimagination]

'Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.' So, this speach is from Macbeth, and it takes place directly after Macbeth hears of his wife's suicide after being drvien mad from grief. So it is about the prospect of having to live on when your love has died, which speaks to La'an's grief over the lost atachment that was starting to grow between her and Kirk. Also, In the best productions of Macbeth, the trick is that in the final act, from around this speach you begin to actually feel sympathy for Macbeth, and even root for him in the end, despite the fact that he is a tyrant and a muderer. So, just as we fealt sympathy for the child Khan at the end of the episode. Christina Chong really blew it out of the park in this episode, especially at the end. I also loved the crack about 'This was all supposed to happen in 1992!' at the end...

[@yophotodude7693]

I didn’t have high expectations for this episode. “Yet another time travel episode!”. I’m tired of all the time travel. But at the end of the day, leaving the gun with Khan, not cleaning up Kirk’s body, and other pollution issues, I really enjoyed it.

[@shaunkenneally7597]

La an, la an, is my role model Beautiful, stoic, and when you have earned it let's the walls down. Best part , La an wakes up goes to Kirk, then goes back to bed ALONE. Christina chang rocks , and keep this up Paul Wesley is nailing this.

[@samlynn1652]

As I read the scene with Khan... Khan was not being particularly well treated or given affection from the institute. He was more of a thing than a person to them. When he asked La'an "Are you here to take me away?" it wasn't fear, it was hope. He wanted to get away from this place. He wanted someone to care about him. La'an in turn had to leave a vulnerable kid in the hands of people who were treating him like an experiment. I think it hard on her and she couldn't really say or do anything about it. So you get a odd line about him being where he needs to be.

[@briancureton9687]

very sad seen to me

[@bridget7539]

It also echoes what happened in the premier. This child has to suffer so that we can have our utopian world later. Which is a really messed up thing to feel like you have to do and also to be unable to even talk to anybody about it so you can maybe process it

[@MrFearDubh]

Don't feel bad, Jessie. At least you called it a hot dog/dog and not wiener.

[@conrad4852]

Slight correction, Jesse. One of the reasons why Scotty, and Bones say they kinda like Khan is that he was the LEAST genocidal of the supermen-one of them says “there were no massacres under his rule” & the other says “no wars until he was attacked.” I’ve always interpreted Khan more as a Salazar of Portugal dictator rather than a Hitler of Germany dictator.

[@conrad4852]

I love your point about the conspiracy theorist though, you put into words my own thoughts.

[@ellemueller]

Well said@ You should check out the Eugenics Wars novels because they caused Trek history to align with our history and present by placing Khan and his Augment cohorts in the background of events in a way which sounds like a total conspiracy theory but they were actually pulling the strings before many of them left the earth in the SD-100 through 500 series if space craft, assuming they'd stop in orbit around a habitable world somewhere to re-seed humanity on a new world with themselves as the original population.

[@AlbertBurdge]

This is probably my favorite episode of SNW to date. It made me laugh, cry, and feel swoony.

[@o.c.kiddkidd5163]

Two things: 1. "I'm not a killer!" Always the cry of the killer. 2. The one consequence I want to see continue from this episode is La'an taking up chess.

[@emr263]

Christina Chong was fantastic. The last scene brought tears to my eyes. La´Ans question "and just surviving is good enough for you?" made me think of the line from Voyagers episode Survival Instinct where Seven says "Survival is insufficient" it is also used in the book Station Eleven.

[@ncc1701chris]

Good review...it was fun. Love your ritos shirt.😊

[@SchnuffiJames]

Nice to see Toronto playing itself instead of NY. As a fan of Stat Trek an a Canadian never thought I would see Toronto or Kirk eat Poutine.😊

[@JanetStarChild]

Also a small nod to William Shatner being Canadian, me thinks.

[@SchnuffiJames]

@@JanetStarChild Yes, It could be, Or that it is filmed there any way so why change anything.

[@PaulNelson392]

I think that having Kirk say they’re in New York when they were actually in Toronto was also a nod to the fact that Toronto has been used as a stand in for New York City in many movies and TV shows.

[@Bucky87]

Thought the bit with Kirk thinking they were in NYC was a bit of a meta nod to all the times films and movies set in NYC have been shot in Toronto

[@NextWorldVR]

I love how they are treating Spock with disdain and discounting him. I think it is funny that Spock is disrespected and treated like a moron, even though he is probably already like 82 years old in this time... After all, being smart and stoic is bad in 2023... (i'm just kidding, this is a Feminist nightmare...)

[@saedo9723]

Random thought, the time bureau really oughta send time travelling counselors back to help deal with these people they completely traumatize with their time travel shenanigans. Especially since they make it so they can't talk to any one else about it.

[@imthestein]

I agree with you about the conspiracy theory stuff and I was relieved she was the antagonist. As for the communicator you need to remember the badge isn’t a communicator yet. Finally, for why Laan was picked I just assumed given the device had data it could project it likely took him to the best alternative for the mission

[@Lycandros]

Some things I wish were in this episode. A scene with future Pelia asking for her watch back. A Temporal Therapist that the conscripted people who go through trauma can talk with. "So thanks for helping keep the timeline "in tact", but you can't talk about this trauma with anyone...k, bye!"

[@noahstackhouse9818]

As some one who lives in the GTA it was so fun to see all the places I've been to in Toronto. Seeing Canadian money and a Tim Hortons cup being held by a cop. Though there's no way they'd be able to afford a hotel that nice in Toronto with their winnings, trust me. The cops wouldn't have let Kirk go either. I know science fiction but that pushes suspension of disbelief more than warp drive ever could😂. Christina Chong gave a great performance as did Paul Wesley interesting that he's played alternate timeline Kirks twice. I like his version of Kirk, though am I the only one who thinks he looks like Jim Carrey's impression from in Living Colour?

[@donnicholas7552]

I enjoyed this episode a lot! What I thought would be light-hearted fun story changed into something more serious and sad. It was cool La'an got a whole episode with her as the main character. And of course Kirk too! Loved seeing Pella too! 🤣

[@Donnagata1409]

Oh, Carol Kane is outstanding!

[@LaraA55]

I so agree

[@chefnerd]

Christina Chong is a magnificent actress.

[@ThorstenWieking]

Kirk gazing at the sunset, his description of Earth and humanity strongly reminded me of the TV show Travellers and how they described the future, although much more bleak then the Kirk-Space-Iowa Universe one.

[@lexielyons5739]

Kirk’s future sounds like a paradise compared to the future in Travelers! Such a great ending to that show!! I wonder if humanity emerges from the Ice Age with a better future?

[@timothymoyer2201]

I started it and thought What in the heck is going on here? Then I thought I was really going to dislike it, it seemed so ...made up with throwbacks to driving and such. I pulled out of that tailspin with the Vermont visit. Came together then and I did cry crocodile tears at the end. Compelling story. Loved the episode. YARRRRRRRRR! LOL. Oh PS: Remember the Guardian? Time flows like a river. It takes people and situations to the same critical conjunctures. Even Temporal Agents can't get around that. Again, Loved the episode where I first thought I was gonna Poo Poo it

[@BSRJR]

In pop culture, I feel like Khan has become a figure much closer to Darth Vader, Megatron or Dracula. He’s clearly villainous but he’s has a swagger and honor to him that makes him very popular with the fandom. Comparisons to real life atrocities only serve to make this fictional sci fi villain more difficult to like.

[@IsiahBradley]

THANKS for this!!! Hands-down, that was the best episode of "Voyagers!" I've ever seen :) We even saw a Trek equivalent of an Omni!!! Seriously, another SNW home run!!!!

[@Slaker117]

Turns out piracy was always morally correct. I took the Toronto introduction as a TV/movie production meta joke since it's often used as a cheaper stand-in for other more famous North America cities for filming.

[@wendyheatherwood]

I like the idea that alt Kirk's entire knowledge of what Earth used to look like is based on old movies and TV shows and he just assumes they're accurate.

[@jamesodell9611]

La'an was likely chosen due to her dna that let her get into the facility, even if it was a risk, but it also allowed her to out the Romulan time-disruptor lady and finish the time cop's mission.

[@aelalilithjett1599]

THANK 👏 YOU 👏 FOR 👏 BRINGING 👏 UP 👏 THE 👏 GUN 👏 ON 👏 THE 👏 TABLE! That bothered the hell out of me.

[@bkayser05]

Don't forget, Strange New Worlds still has hand held flip communicators. They just threw away badges, the metals in them might be rare but there isn't any technology in those badges in this case

[@Orlando_from_The_Bronx]

Usually, I can almost always tell when another location is standing in for NYC (I'm from there- The Bronx). I just accept it if the locations are generic enough and sparsely used. I rolled my eyes this time around because that city-scape looked nothing like Manhattan, even though Manhattan does have some open and less dense areas. I had a big ass laugh when Lan pointed out that it was Toronto. It seemed to serve the double purpose of pointing out that Kirk knew nothing about earth (which we find out later) and as a gag on the audience because Toronto frequently doubles for NYC. In retrospect, it looks like they deliberately chose a spot that New Yorkers would instantly know was not in Manhattan.

[@claudiadarling9441]

It's also nice to see Trek earth history take place outside of San Francisco, or Montanna, and France where everyone has an English accent.

[@JanetStarChild]

@@claudiadarling9441 So, Jean-Luc Picard (from France) _can't_ have an *English* accent, but Geordi La Forge (from Somalia) _can_ have an *American* accent?

[@claudiadarling9441]

@@JanetStarChild 1) I forgot Geordi is supposed to be from Somalia. 2) It's just a silly little quip about how English Picard is even though he's supposed to be French.

[@JanetStarChild]

@@claudiadarling9441 Yeah, it's a stupid meme at this point; propagated by ignorant, self-absorbed Americans. They never consider that maybe Jean-Luc learned English from France's closest English-speaking neighbor, the UK.

[@nonamegiven202]

yeah I'm still not a fan of time travel episode but this one works for me since it wasn't a "time travel episode" it was a La'an episode that just happen to feature time travel. And personally it was a needed one IMO too, letting her spread her wings from mainly being Una adjacent. Though on alt timelines, I would love to see them ask the question "which timeline we should value" with a equally as good timeline instead of one that is objectively worst. like the best we got is the kelvin timeline and there you have Vulcan destroyed.

[@TyrMcDohl]

It's nudged against in Yesterday's Enterprise. Alt!Picard questions to Guinan of whether his timeline is any less valid than the one Guinan is aware of. It's the scene where he's like "Not good enough, damn it, not good enough!"