Star Trek Strange New Worlds S02E03 "Time & Blackbox & Computer Simulation"

true. computers will alter timeline. we are headed towards that future, at light speed.

[@Graniteheart]

love the reference to how the Eugenics Wars happened in the '90s as per TOS, but kept getting pushed back further and further down the timeline

[@canonest]

according to ST timeline WWIII supposed to begin 2026, we will see.

[@ibrohiem]

Yeah apparently writers over the years have to find ways to push the event back since reality overlapped the event in Cannon. Plus Star Trek loves to contradict itself over and over.

[@astrofan1993]

@@canonest Well, considering WWIII in Star Trek was fought over lingering debates from the Eugenics Wars, basically being a delayed spillover of the previous war (according to Memory Alpha, before SNW aired), it kind of makes sense that pushed the Eugenics Wars back to right before WWIII was set to begin. Thus, the two would directly relate to each other.

[@PeachWookiee]

And then the US Second Civil War got added in. And we’re a year from the Bell Riots!

[@canonest]

@@PeachWookiee indeed it is coming, kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5rPmKVoiK9mrrM

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

Imagine being a descendant of Hitler, being sent back in time, and being told that the best timeline only occurs if you stop his assassination

[@OneGaurdian]

That sounds like a good book.

[@Theomite]

I actually had an idea for a story like that, only instead the protagonists forge his approval into art school. But then their handler from the future came back and warns them that without him Stalin conquers most of the world and they have to undo what they did: "You mean we fixed Hitler and now we have to make him an asshole again?!" I decided not to write it because I figured it would be mistaken for Nazi apologia but the idea was fun for a minute.

[@stuartcraker3180]

@@OneGaurdianBen Elton wrote a good book around going back in time to change history for the better including assassinating hitler. No spoilers but it was a great read

[@harryc1971]

Or if 911 is stopped it gets much worse? ripples on an infinite pond

[@stephenconroy5908]

Time pushing back like a self-aware entity... Annorax said that too and seemed/was crazy. But that line here is ominous.

[@Simmons8519]

The Q exist... maybe the multiverse or something in it exists ABOVE them too...

[@edwardjackson9639]

She has been trapped for 30 years trying to kill or stopped the Federation from forming!! This episode reinforced the Temporal War that was mentioned during Star Trek: Enterprise and the TNG!! I just love how all these Star Trek shows clearly placed everything together in the Star Trek universe!

[@user-qr3ph8fi6o]

@@edwardjackson9639The Voyager temporal war two parter was the best imo though! Completely self-contained to that series alone.

[@davidweihe6052]

Was the Guardian Of Forever a self-aware entity?

[@glamourweaver]

⁠@@davidweihe6052yes he’s been a self-aware entity since City on the Edge of Forever

[@rossorat2306]

If I'm understanding what Sera is saying correctly. The Eugenics Wars did happen in 1992, but the Temporal Wars are underway, so many factions are messing around with history that the Eugenics Wars were undone and time itself reinserted Khan later so the Wars would still happen (See Annorax in Year Of Hell saying that time is a living creature). So La'an was protecting essentially a bandage on history to hold existance together until the Temporal Wars end and everything goes back to normal. Captain Janeway was right. Time Travel is a headache.

[@ScorpiusZA.]

Enterprise's Introduction of the temporal Cold War does cover a lot of canon changes. Which I am normally opposed to. While I think it is a clumsy explanation, it is an in-universe explanation which I can work with. I really do appreciate the 1992 reference.

[@nooneinparticular1491]

Something to consider; in the "Space Seed" episode - and therefore in the original Star Trek timeline - Scotty explicitly stated that there were no massacres under Khan's rule. He was ruthless and arrogant, true, and allowed no dissent from his authority, but Kirk, McCoy and Scott all had an admiration for him, which they certainly would NOT have felt for a mass murderer in the Hitler / Stalin mold. La'an clearly indicates that the Khan of her ancestry WAS a mass murderer, and the show makers of SNW are very obviously too detail oriented to make that mistake (looking at you, J.J.) so it would appear that the more that the timeline is altered, the worse the pushback in order to meet the same (or similar) net result.

[@OneGaurdian]

Just because there weren't massacres doesn't mean there weren't deaths.

[@brch2]

This very scene establishes that history has changed from what we saw in TOS, but that time itself keeps seeming to push back and force events to reinsert themselves. Which means that we end up with different details, but that major events and the general timeline leads to substantially the same outcomes. The version of the timeline we saw Khan in TOS era is not the EXACT same as the one we are in SNW... but they ended up MOSTLY the same. Which also explains why La'an does not break canon (since she was never mentioned in TOS despite most of the crew knowing her and having worked with her by time they met Khan). She simply didn't exist in the version of the timeline where Khan's rule was in the mid 1990s. She does in the version of the timeline where his rule was more merciless and happened as part of WWIII.

[@pauld6967]

@nooneinparticular1491 Absolutely correct. This is just further evidence that Fake Trek: So Now What, like FT: Duhscovery and FT: Pretendcard (Seasons 1 &2, Season 3 tries to align itself with the Canon Timeline) are an alternate timeline and can be ignored.

[@koalabrownie]

It's called lore drift. It happens in all franchises. Just look at the Klingon's appearance and the subsequent nonsense they dreamed up to explain the difference.

[@calkelpdiver]

Okay... kinda liking the Butterfly Effect conundrum here. La'an knows if Khan is killed she will never exist, but also the stain of his actions will no longer/never taint her. As some other people have said this is a very close take on ST:TOS "City on the Edge of Forever" where Kirk has to let Edith Keeler die to preserve his timeline. Imagine the world now if Hitler had never come to power.

[@canonest]

if hitler never came to power we wouldn't "probably" created these in the last 80 years. V-2 Rocket and space science, satellites, internet... Jet Engine Technology, comfortable and fast planes... Advanced Weapons, machine gun... Medical Research would remain in stone ages... Radar Technology.. Autobahn (highways) Guided Missiles Synthetic Fuel Production (benzine and kerosene) Submarine Technology Antiaircraft Systems Ballistic Missile Technology Electronic Warfare (jammers) High-Speed Research (aerodynamics calculations etc.) Stealth Technology Nuclear Energy - atomic bombs

[@Theomite]

If Hitler never came to power the Soviets would've taken over the world because their landspace and war machine built during the Isolationist years would've given them the ability to basically trample over everything.

[@Mr.Cockney]

It is sad to agree with you but wars have been the engine for advancing in a lot of fields that have given Humanity later prosper, comfort and longevity.

[@MostlyPennyCat]

The breakthroughs for nuclear power and weapons happened _prior_ to the second world war and the final pieces actually fell in the UK. The war caused the practical design work to be transferred to the US, otherwise it would have happened (or was happening) in the UK. Jet engines, flight and airliners were also British incentives, with the jet engine being developed in the 1930s. Radar and electronic warfare were also created in the UK and built prior to the war. The electronic digital computer was, however, designed and built purely for the purpose of warfare at Bletchley park. This greatly accelerated their production although they were still inevitable, Turing's work was going to happen anyway. Whether Tommy flowers would have built something other than Colossus is unknown, he had the skills but maybe would not have gained the impetus.

[@brookestephen]

"We offered the world *ORDER"*

[@dekoop2145]

This episode reminds me of the episode from Voyager: Future's end

[@canonest]

--spoiler-- next episode more like that :) --spoiled--

[@user-qr3ph8fi6o]

So basically; everything always has to reset in Star Trek series at some point no matter what!

[@FarSeeker8]

I thought La'an was supposed to be genetically engineered to be super strong. How did the Romulan over-power her?

[@Creasy5678]

She's Khan's direct descendent, which doesn't mean she's an Augment herself. Whatever Khan had it hasn't passed down through the generations, apparently. Khan was massively Bioengineered to be what he became, but it's perfectly possible mucking around with the genome doesn't result in a child with the same abilities. Given that La'an is likely his granddaughter or great granddaughter biologically, it would appear the DNA of those who Married into the family and had children pretty much wrote out Khan's altered DNA. But, it could also be that Starfleet tampered with the DNA of Khan's family to make sure that what he did NEVER happened again. The last thing they would ever want is a Supersoldier supergenius madman or madwoman picking up where the man left off and restarting the Eugenics Wars. In fact, until La'an's direct familial link to Khan was revealed, I thought any family he had died with him or fled into space when he lost...

[@LyingTube]

Khan is more than 200 years separated from La'an, it's likely that even without any external meddling of the genetics his influence on her genetics is almost negligible. 200 years is something like 4-5 human generations, if we're being generous, which works out to Khan's DNA being only 6-3% of La'an's assuming no other augment relatives in the chain.

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

What Creasy said, plus Romulans come from the same genetic stock as Vulcans, who are three times as strong as humans with the pain threshold of a rhino on morphine. So factoring in the dilution of La'an's genetic heritage and the Romulans' natural physical capabilities and it all about evens out

[@edwardjackson9639]

You have to remember that Romulan are Vulcans... they are always naturally strong! Besides, we're not sure how of her Khan genes are still in her...we know some is!!

[@williamclarke3026]

You know what I never got. being attracted to the name khan noonien Singh is this world is like having the name Stalin or hitler. In all the previous generations and ancestors La’an has had after khan and nobody ever considered a name change. No one even said “ok. We’re not the Singh’s anymore. We’re the mcdoogles.”

[@kayceecheang2726]

Khan!

[@rafsolo]

Who is the romulan's actress? She looks familiar

[@procyon6370]

Adelaide Kane

[@OneGaurdian]

She was lead in Reign, on the CW.

[@TheFiown]

The bad guys always talk too much instead of getting on with it. Little wonder it took her 30 years to get to this point !

[@Theomite]

Give her a break. She's a Romulan living as a human in a primitive time period waiting 30 years to accomplish a mission that keeps getting delayed and she finally encounters a person she can vent to. Of course she's gonna take the opportunity to spout all the shit that's been on her mind.

[@BikeStuffPDX]

Seems like a solid Dr Who type scene minus the good acting

[@959151]

Female Villains,cmun mon give all a stomach break mon!

[@R4FMalik]

la´an left the gun lying in Kahn's room... she is the cheif of security... this isnt very smart i think

[@brch2]

She needed him to become the violent dictator her history recorded him as, so how is leaving him a gun going to thwart that? If anything, the Romulan's attempt to kill him and La'an leaving the gun could have been the catalyst that led him to the events that lead's to La'an's version of the timeline, creating a time loop.

[@beyondthetech]

Maybe it's self-prophecy. Khan's rampage starts with a gun...

[@DrMarkGinsburg]

Why can’t Sera just shoot her and use the hand print

[@canonest]

iPhone X and later reads for life signs on the face reading technology maybe the handprint reader also uses the same stuff, this is Star Trek.

[@benjaminbierley2074]

Also, Khan would for sure hear the gunshot outside his door, and given he wasn't exactly a pushover in a fight him knowing you are coming is the last thing you want for your one shot at him.

[@user-qr3ph8fi6o]

@@benjaminbierley2074You’re telling me they didn’t keep me in some sort of stasis in that room with how dangerous he is?! That’d be stupid.

[@Theomite]

@@benjaminbierley2074 And Romulan or no, I doubt she could take him with all of his strength and speed. We saw what he did to the Klingon squads in INTO DARKNESS so a single Romulan with a pistol wouldn't have meant shit to him.

[@duckyj7241]

@@benjaminbierley2074 but he's like, seven years old here.

[@Overlord24]

Sister you forget the Klignons, the Cardassians, the Bree, The Ferengis, the Borg, the Dominion etc. You do not know it but laterr it would have been for nothing if your sun explodes either way. So Rick was Right. Time travel is lame if Marvel can do it with 2nd string characters as Coke Zero Ant-man.

[@thehellyousay]

i could have disarmed that woman half a dozen times while she ranted, and i wasn't trained anywhere nearly as well as a soldier should be. gods, hollywood sucks.

[@canonest]

they made you watch, didn't they?

[@davemiller6055]

It's like Jim Carrey is playing Kirk. The guy looks like Carrey. Smiles like him. His voice sounds like him. This on top of how he acts very un-Kirk like.

[@frankbalistreri5171]

So tired of time travel.