Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S7E07: Dark Page

[@tayzonday]

Star Trek has always been great at inventing things that allow the show to be filmed with a lower budget. Holodecks, transporters, Vulcan nerve pinches . . . and dreams / traumatic memories that always seem to happen in previously built set pieces.

[@stevenreichertart]

I've had PTSD, and I can tell you this episode is *spot on* about how trauma just about destroys you. There are things that remind you of the trauma, and your mind is instantly transported to the painful event. I cried SO HARD watching this episode. These flashbacks are so painful, you try to repress the memory. Lawaxana may seem hysterical to some people, but this is exactly how people with PTSD may act when forced to confront their trauma. In fact, in previous episodes, Lawaxana may have been overcompensating for her trauma by being overly, awkwardly gregarious and controlling--it all makes sense now.

[@StefanTravis]

I think Majel Barrett played Lwaxana Troi, from day one, as someone desperately running from... something. Her own mortality, her own aging, a sense of failure, a feeling of never having achieved what she was raised to expect of herself. She always seemed to be trying _too_ hard, to be the center of attention, the one who grabs life by the neck and won't let go. And this is _in spite of_ the writing. She was written as a one-dimensional comedy character - that failed to be comedic. But _portrayed_ with hints of hidden depths. I suppose we're lucky the scriptwriters finally caught up with the actress.

[@EnvisionerWill]

IMO, Lwaxana first became a decent character, as opposed to a clumsy stereotype, in "Half a Life", her fourth of six appearances (one in every season except 6th). She started to get there in the third episode, "Menage a Troi", but still came across as deliberately irritating, just not exclusively so. And both of her earlier appearances were garbage, but that's seasons 1 and 2 in a nutshell isn't it? But she was good in "Half a Life", she was good in "Cost of Living", and IMO she is great in this one. I would call this her best portrayal, because she actually shows depth and layers to a very great extent, even more than in the previous two; she's trying to hold it together in public, even when we know what she's going through inside her own mind, and it actually genuinely does make her come across as a strong character. Her three appearances in Deep Space Nine are all also kind of around this level, but none of those episodes are as fully focused upon her as this one.

[@stevenreichertart]

You are 100% right. In this episode, we finally understand why Lwaxana behaved the way she did for years. She was so overbearing and controlling, is makes sense now that she was over-compensating for a devastating traumatic loss that was literally killing her. So powerful.

[@Norvo82]

There's so much to love about Lwaxana if she's used properly. She's the auntie Mame of Star Trek, a fun loving rogue element who lets you have candy for dinner and wants you to live a little, which is the polar opposite of the prim, proper and regulated life in Starfleet. But she still belonged on the Enteprise because she was family. And, at her core, the daughter of the 3rd house is truly a decent, wise woman whose only major fault is not wanting to endure another loss or end up all alone. But hey... isn't that all of us?

[@quasimodojdls]

For 45 minutes in "Face of the Enemy", Deanna Troi was the most riveting character on TNG. Now, for 45 minutes, Lwaxana Troi is the most riveting character on TNG. I certainly never thought I would say that! Aside from the fact that the aliens communicate through ridiculous-looking Telepathic Care Bear Stares and Picard just swooping in to solve the mystery instead of Troi doing it herself, I can't find any major faults with this episode. It succeeds exactly where "Interface" failed. There we were given a story about a main character's parent who we had never met before. Here we are given a story about a main character's parent who has been part of the show almost since the beginning. That is precisely how you get the audience to care about back-story, not by just dropping a new character into the mix and saying "okay, now care!". And Majel Barrett definitely rose the occasion, acting-wise. The climatic scene of her emotional break-down to Troi almost had me in tears. Maybe that's because it spoke to me a deeply personal level - I've had numerous experiences in my past that I would rather forget about (nothing as tragic as the loss of a child, but it still connected with me). Good acting, wonderful bit of back-story, and some superb character development make this easily the best episode of Season Seven thus far. 8/10

[@MrCornrowz]

RE: Lawaxana She had the same character trajectory as Kira. Rough and unlikable ->tolerable->beloved. The sad thing is that the first impression we recieved lingered and colored the entire experience with both characters.

[@stickboy6474]

I always liked Lwaxana specifically because she was rude and overbearing. Since there was no “conflict” allowed between the crew it brought a different dynamic to have someone that was more real.

[@1300l]

Me too, she was just so different and Diva that i liked her. More than in episodes like this one. The best one for me is the one with Alexander

[@roystonsbailey]

The end is an absolute tearjerker

[@stevemanart]

19:50 that is the only portion of the whole episode I remembered going into his one. 23:35 I feel she's an overall benefit to the franchise, even in her "worst" episodes where she was written as a total [colorful metaphor] I found Majel's performance to be excellent and there was always something to like. And I do wholeheartedly agree, her net average of good is much higher than The Q in general and Q in particular.

[@captmoroni]

05:14 (with joyful exclaim) Elcor!

[@user-yv4mm6bx3c]

My Mom lost her younger brother when she was a teenager. It had a profound effect on the entire family, especially my Grandmother. They were quite protective as a result. So this episode hits home.

[@EnvisionerWill]

One of the things I lament about Lwaxana, and Troi, and the entire Betazed species, is the fact that we never really explore their culture (beyond the fact that they have naked weddings, of course; that part was clearly the most important thing to establish). I've said before and still maintain that Betazoids were a retooling of the Deltans from Phase II, and the Troi-Riker relationship that started out in season 1, vanished entirely from seasons 2-7 except for like five episodes, and then reappeared in Insurrection so they could get engaged in Nemesis, was that it initially started out as a clone of Decker and Ilia, who didn't really have a chance to portray their relationship in The Motion Picture (because there just wasn't enough time to do any character development, they had to have all those twelve-minute long panning shots of the inside of the nebula, one after another after another...sorry, I'm still bitter about that godawful waste of time, a pretty good 30 minute movie that was padded out to two hours until it made me want to ragequit my entire life). Sorry, got a little sidetracked there. My point in bringing all this up - Lwaxana is referred to by a bunch of really pompous-sounding aristocratic titles that seem hereditary, and I would really love to have seen a full exploration of the Betazoid (slash Deltan) culture, that actually explains what the Holy Rings of Betazed and the Sacred Chalice of Rheex (sp?) really are, and why the Daughter of the Fifth House would be the heir and holder of those things. My theory is that these are entirely honorary decorations that have been handed down for hundreds of thousands of years, and haven't meant anything for tens of thousands, and that probably all Betazoids have such things, but that since contact with Starfleet more and more of the Betazoid youth have lost interest in these one-time sacraments, because it's a big galaxy out there and the most exciting thing on a single planet isn't all that special anymore (except for Earth of course, but the fact that humans still consider their culture important even after making First Contact is actually kind of a good justification for the Humans are Special idea, it makes a pretty good "hat" for our species, all told). So the fact that Deanna and Suder and the few other Betazoids we've met in Starfleet have not introduced themselves by a bunch of titles, that could actually demonstrate that there's a huge cultural shift underway on Betazed in the last few decades since they joined the Federation (having not been mentioned in the TOS era, I assume that their First Contact was within the last hundred years, and probably well less than that; Ian Troi may very well have been one of the first humans to meet a Betazoid). Of course, I could be totally wrong about all of that; it's possible that the Betazoids do have a more conventional system of aristocracy, and Lwaxana really is the heir of a noble house, in which case it's more likely that she got the chance to marry one of the Starfleet visitors because of her privileged position; in a race of telepaths which can't have secret resentments, what changes about a system of haves and have-nots whose refined positions are inherited, and grow more rare and precious as the population grows? There's so much to explore there! (We never will, of course....)

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

Considering that this episode was made years after Roddenberry's death, I really see this episode as a case of "author's saving throw" to imbue her with the depth which Roddenberry had not seen fit to write into her originally. That said, I absolutely believe that the reason why the roles of Troi and Yar were swapped during pre-production was because Rodenberry suddenly realized what character he'd write just for Majel, and the woman who could more easily pass for her daughter needed to be in that role.

[@Kapitaen_Flauschbart]

Never had that thought about Loxanas attitude during TNG before ... fits in perfectly with her role in DS9. For the first time, between all your Star Trek ruminations so far, I was not able to recall this episode of TNG by the context you delivered ... fascinating.

[@Brandyalla]

I like Lwaxana. Her character was interesting, if a bit abrasive at times, and Majel Barret did a good job playing her. Her relationship with Odo was sweet, and think her relationship with Mr Holm must have been deeper than it appeared on the surface, for him to have stayed all those years.

[@TheMarcHicks]

She definitely grew on me between this episode & season 4 of DS9.

[@SorakuFett]

We're only 7 episodes away from it now... I absolutely cannot wait to see that glorious notification of "S7E14" Regarding Lwaxana, growing up I watched TNG alongside a bunch of other shows, one of which was Golden Girls. I always got the same kind of vibe from Lwaxana that I got from Blanche on that show.

[@AdamCollings]

I agree with you. In the first couple of seasons, Lwaxana was painful to watch, but I loved her on Deep Space Nine and I loved her in this episode. Lwaxana is good when the writers allow her to let her guard down and show the vulnerability inside her.

[@athrunzala6919]

I wonder if this inspired Flashback later in Voyager.

[@harpercole5321]

The journey into the subconscious idea has probably been done a few too many times on Trek by now. Still, it feels fairly fresh here. It's still a bit Season 7, but with more emotional depth than most that year.

[@Obdimus]

Upon rewatching this episode, the way that whole scene plays out with Kestra fell short of convincing for me. I'm guessing an actual scene of mortal danger with a child couldn't be shown on a network back then, but I actually had to read the episode entry on Memory Alpha to confirm what actually happened. All we're told in the episode is that she ran after the dog and... that's it? The earlier scene with Kirsten Dunst tripping in the tiny pond was the only other hint of what had occurred, and I feel it was undersold. To make it worse, they filmed the flashback scene in the arboretum when it was supposed to have been near a lake, and the earlier scene with Troi's father was supposed to be in a house on Betazed but was clearly just regular guest quarters. I'm left with many questions as well, like: what could the dog have possibly run after so aggressively? Did it run into the lake? Did the dog survive? Why would the kid go right into the lake after it if she couldn't swim, or did she just trip and fall face first into shallow water? How the hell could Lwaxana not telepathically sense her own child in danger? For that matter, how the heck could two adult parents not notice their child, who was right next to them, run off with a loud barking dog? Not to say nothing of the acting in the episode, which was all well done and convincing, but to me it faltered at that critical moment by way of poor construction. Getting us to care deeply about Troi's mother is a hard sell from the start, and up to that point the episode isn't really interesting with these forgettable new aliens wearing awfully cheap looking head prosthetics (Kirsten's doesn't even look like it was applied properly, or intentionally left unfinished looking), but there's not even a B plot to give some relief from "oh no something's wrong with Troi's mom, we gotta figure out what it is." The entire runtime builds up to that one big reveal, and for me it was bogged down by the lack of sense it made.

[@1300l]

I like her, always did. I don't think every character need a deep depth, she was a diva, selfish and spoiled. Yet she brought something from the table.. all she wish was to have fun in her life, have adventures, flames.. From the military personal on the Enterprise she was a welcome mid life crisis representation of a civilian who in a way have it all. I never got why ppl hated her, yea she isn't a great character but her episodes were fun, cute.. And this episode, even though is the potrait i like the least of her, make sense... She grow, she accept her age and responsibility.

[@jani11]

Never seen a lot of season 7 because i was always bound to TV and only now started to really watch TNG. This Lwaxana episode was powerful, i felt that last scene. Not even because of what happened to the girl, but because of her top class acting. What happened to the girl anyway? Did she drown?

[@LostMercenary99]

I've rewatched this episode a couple of times since becoming a parent. Before I thought it was good and retroactively redeemed Lwaxana as a character. Now though it leaves me a complete gibbering wreck for a good while afterwards. Tears and all. This episode represents my absolute worst nightmare happening. Once or twice I'll need to turn away from my little girl to grab something or check something and I'll hear a little thud and cry. Nothing serious just a bump on the head or a fall. Normal stuff for a kid. But I remain completely terrified of the one instance it will not be that. That something awful will happen. And it will be all my fault. Dark Page just rips out my god damn soul and leaves me devastated every time and I immediately go to check if my little one is OK and cuddle her so tightly she just gets confused.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

Lwaxana Troi… what *do* I think about her? … …I suppose I think she’s probably the most Roddenberry-Box person in Star Trek, which is rather fitting. On the surface she’s self-important, pompous, flashy, arrogant, self-righteous, and supposedly carrying no flaws, no biases, no care for such frivolous things as bad feelings or conflict with others. In fact, many times she goes out of her way to act “above such petty things.” And yet when you get to know her more and more: you find out she’s just as “human” as anyone. She’s carrying grief, she’s constantly spiteful and deceptive, she praises those she publicly resents, she hides her real hair (“hair doesn’t matter in the future”, huh?), she is in a constant state of fear, grief, and guilt for things outside her control, and when push comes to shove: she isn’t willing to the be diplomat who lets people roll all over them (she will be naked at her own wedding!!). She’s the Roddenberry box on the outside, but if you open it up and look inside: you find a lot more than it’s supposed to have in there, and she’s all the better for it.

[@bad-people6510]

Okay... if the Cairn communicate non-verbally, and through abstract concepts... why do they have names?

[@paulscott2037]

With age I've grown more fond of Lwaxana, I think because I understand her better. I don't even find her earlier appearances so annoying. Except maybe her first in season one but that is just not a good episode generally.

[@tayzonday]

I’m also going to hazard a guess that she might have worked gratis / for free . . . since her estate executive produced the show. Every dime counts in production and it’s probably not mere coincidence that she did the “computer voice” and frequent guest appearances.

[@EnvisionerWill]

"Manhunt" is also terrible. Arguably worse than "Haven" even, since "Haven" is just boring, and "Manhunt" actively turns her into a subhuman mating machine, who also Mary Sues away the problem of the episode right at the end.

[@Eelco_de_Boer]

Summary: Lwaxana Troi visits the Enterprise, but she's preoccupied by a dark secret she has carried for years. Deanna learns something new about her family. (a very emotional episode, it's very good, but you have to be in a mood voor heavy topics)

[@EnvisionerWill]

The episode pronounces his name "may kweeze", but it seems like it's probably spelled exactly the same as the word Maquis, which is pronounced "mock wee", because French. I wonder if that's actually how they decided upon this name, they just took a word they were already using, and stuck it into the script with a different pronunciation.

[@jshariff786]

It’s “ma kee”. In French, “qu” just makes a “k” sound, not a “kw” sound.

[@mr51406]

Now we know why Deanna is “Little One.” High praise to Majel Barrett! 🌹A beautiful person. A moving portrayal which I now appreciate. Like Lwaxanna I have always preferred bodacious to boring. (They forgot that Deanna is supposed to get her “exotic” accent from her father…)

[@mikecarter86]

2.30 Elcor mode: activate

[@athrunzala6919]

Lawxana was better on DS9, on TNG her best episode was Half a Life or Quality of Life whatever, the guy who has to go home and die when he turns 50 or whatever.

[@jmiester25]

Ds9 really helped me respect her

[@nicholassterling8483]

A wonderful bittersweet way to end Lwaxana, and one I can definitely relate to in the relationship with my own mother, identifying with Troy, and even more so with Lwaxana. Nick :-)

[@CavalloDiSpade]

In the vote video, asking for the top and bottom 5, I put in the bottom 5 "anything with Lwaxana Troi". This episode is the exception. It's not like it's even close to the best episodes or anything but this episode has Lwaxana in it and is watchable, and actually kind of interesting IMO. And that's because it's the only episode with Lwaxana where she does anything other than be an annoying shit.

[@aliciashank7940]

At the very least you convinced me Lwaxana belongs with Odo! :) In all seriousness? I couldn't stand her when I watched the show originally (from the perspective of a child who still had to deal with her mother) and after concluding the arcs with you, I agree with you. She's a beautiful person who deserves a happy ending. There are people who show why they're doing the dysfunctional things they are right away and there are people who try to hide it and it takes you forever to figure it out. I think Lwaxana is in the second category. (And I mean, headcanon aside, even if she didn't end up with Odo in the end, she did have another child, and she did get to see Will and Deanna married. So that's good.)

[@Tuning3434]

Oh yes, S1 Picard wasn't really the boss I would like to work for.

[@Norvo82]

The words "tyrannical martinet" come to mind.

[@corssecurity]

Admiral Ian Troi... Ricker would still be an ensign Working a relay station at a distant outpost scrubbing deck plates and plasma chambers. As to drunkness.. In vino veritas.. Doc Holiday Tombstone Ah yes this is bit old for Lore but I remember it from childhood. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/e37UepKKoKh7l8U

[@EnvisionerWill]

I disagree with Lore that a species who never communicates verbally should also never communicate nonverbally; much of the information conveyed by a nonverbal message is too minor, too fractional, to ever be replaced with either words or telepathic pictures. Indeed, since we know that their telepathy is in picture form, they probably transmit pictures of themselves performing facial expressions and body postures and other gestures, and it would be weird if they didn't also perform those things while transmitting them (at least, it shouldn't be the default; keeping your body still while sending a mind-picture of you dancing is probably about as difficult as speaking one word while writing another). My presumption is that while they were still evolving, they were growing their telepathic cortex at the same stage of species-development where humans grew a language-cortex, and they would still have used nonverbal communication before that, which then got atavistically carried forward by both species because it remained useful.

[@corssecurity]

Very interesting. I'm getting older and I relate more to Luxeana now. I am a father of a daughter and I had to deal with losing access to her twice! That's a long time ago but it is not something you just brush off. I have seen PTSD and it isn't rational or fair. So the episode does connect in the feels. Logical plot holes. How influential is Tori or her husband to erase records of the birth and death of a child? Why was she triggered by a girl stepping in water when she was up to her neck in mud with Alexander? So people are divided pretty evenly. If you relate to the emotional you can overlook the problems. Btw any of you familiar with Scanners? (Michael Ironside) If you don't connect you won't like the episode. Then again I know the character arc from DS9 so on rewatching I'm more forgiving. First time seeing it as a teenager not so much.

[@AlcomIsst]

On top of the body language and expression, the Cairns' grasp of grammar also seems way too advanced. Maques struggles with the lexical element of spoken language but never the grammatical, and by the nature of his species he should have the opposite problem. For a species that communicates with visual telepathy, associating words with their images should be relatively easy, compared to handling a far more alien verbal syntax used to bind those words together. Unless the syntax was automated? A partially automated vocal enhancer that handles the grammar isn't out of the question.

[@JanetDax]

Creepy stare guy was way too intense. Is this normal on their planet. I hope not. Yes Luxwana has grown during the run of TNG and DS9

[@AlucardNoir]

Lwaxana Troi had the fortune of not appearing on Voyager and thus her character was saved the embarrassment the Q had to face. But, like Q, she stole the show whenever she made an appearance.

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

Daughters of the Dead .

[@EnvisionerWill]

I am sadly, empathically amused by how often you have to say "This is such a fascinating concept and we could do so much with it (but we never will of course)". This is schaudenfreude without sadism; I don't want you to suffer, but I laugh with you, rather than at you, because you are suffering.

[@jamespepper8671]

This episode is one I do not watch as it brings up terrible memories, hence it is a great episode. Sorry I haven't actually watched this since it aired. I will not be going back to it either.

[@frankharzer6224]

Usually I very much dislike Lwaxana Troi. The Actress does a good Job but I hate the Character and I do almost always skip every episode she is in, except this one, because it is so well done.