Star Trek Writer on Star Trek Discovery Vs. The Orville - The Winner!

Watch our recent video "The True History of Science Fiction Novels 60's Onward Part 2 Mr. Sci-Fi Mini Series"
kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5LciIVrqLaWnsU --~--
Star Trek writer Marc Zicree weighs in on the first seven episodes of Star Trek Discovery and The Orville and pronounces the winner!

[@chuckvt5196]

The Orville has just been renewed for season two! WooHoo!

[@deplorabledave1048]

ChuckVT Yes, your post pleased me too. I do believe I trickled a little bit of urine. But that's just normal for me. Ha-Ha! Avoid STD just as you would avoid getting an STD.

[@astralwerks4]

Ouch, but its season 2 ratings are abysmal tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/the-orville-season-two-ratings/

[@nerdrotic]

Marc, the book I read the most as a kid was Twilight Zone Companion. Stumbled across your channel. Just wanted to say thank you for the hours of entertainment! Subscribed!

[@wadeace2350]

You prolly dont give a shit but if you're stoned like me atm then you can watch all the latest movies on InstaFlixxer. Been streaming with my gf for the last few days xD

[@nicolasachilles524]

@Wade Ace Yup, I have been watching on Instaflixxer for years myself =)

[@steveprice33]

Choosing between the two was a very simple choice for me: I'm still watching The Orville, but I quit watching Star Trek: Discovery. That pretty much sums it up for me.

[@robertanthony8227]

true statmrnt

[@FunkeeMawnkee]

I think most hard core fans did, I know I did.

[@darwinxavier3516]

The choice between the two was never even mine to make. CBS hid STD behind a pay wall which I'm uninterested in paying for. I only saw season 1 because a friend of a friend pirated it and wanted me to watch it before hating it.

[@druss69harad61]

I've been watching Star Trek for 45 years,I like both.

[@TheWolverine1984]

STD has the official license, the terminology, and the iconography, but Orville has the soul of Star Trek. STD is like that alien in Men in Black who kills a person an wears his body like a suite, without any knowledge how to be an actual person.

[@Novarcharesk]

The Orville is copying TNG. The very idea of a comparison between the two in my opinion is moot. It does not have the soul of Star Trek, it is simply copying TNG and claiming to be something new.

[@billskinner7670]

That is the best possible explanation of STD I can even imagine!

[@TheWolverine1984]

Not really. Copying TNG would be to do a re-make, a soft reboot, like they did with the new Star Wars for example. Where 'The Force Awakens' is just a plain copy-pasted version of 'A New Hope' with new actors and bigger special effects. This is not what is happening with the Orville. Orville is **heavily** influenced by TNG, but it's not a copy. It's a homage to TNG, not a rip-off.

[@Argonautx66]

What sci fi these days isnt reminiscent of something that has come before? At least Orville has heart and an optimism

[@darwinxavier3516]

Stargate SG1 and Atlantis were better spiritual successors to Star Trek than STD.

[@paranidherc]

Describing The Orville: "This was fun, that was fun, everything was fun" Describing The STD: "Mmh...hmm...uhm...*sigh*...hmm" STD is - just as it's abbreviation suggests - miserable and annoying and something you don't want to let people you love to come into contact with.

[@savage1267]

paranidherc 👌 perfect

[@FunkeeMawnkee]

LOL very witty XD

[@FUBuddy]

not enough STDisease jokes.

[@storyteller5931]

For me Orville is far better on all accounts. It has a Star Trek feel to it, is optimistic, and all the characters are enjoyable, so each week, I'm liking it more and more. On Star Trek, I have watched all series and movies and I'm a die-hard Fan, but for me STD just doesn't have the slightest Star Trek feel, and on episode six I gave up on it completely. So unless sometime in the future a proper Star Trek show comes to the small screen again, I'll just have to stick with the Orville, and to get my fix on ST, now an then watch the old shows I have on DVD.

[@robertanthony8227]

true true

[@Novarcharesk]

The Orville copying what TNG did does not make it a better show. It simply is a copy with a comedic flavour on it at first, but then I hear that it's now mostly serious? So... a copy of TNG with no meaningful difference? Remind me again how copying the same themes, style, and general content of another show makes it even an original piece to be compared in the first place.

[@TaylorjAdams]

"a copy of TNG with no meaningful difference" yes, exactly, that's why people love it. The topics and stories that get covered were in no way invented by TNG. The zoo episode is a trope older than the twilight zone, TNG never covered transgender/parental rights, what our world might look like in a total democracy, etc. The main thing that the Orville took from TNG is just that the whole point is the philosophical questions, the "what if"s. If you like your lens flares you can keep your lens flares. But like Story Teller I'll gladly trade them for conversations in corridors.

[@Goggleboxing]

@Novarcharesk: Commenting without watching it to formulate a firsthand opinion smacks of bigotry. If you reject The Orville for your stated reasons then you must "hate" ST:D.

[@jimyoung9262]

I made it though 0.5 episodes of STD

[@Philiptanzer]

I personally couldn't keep watching STD, it felt wrong. People who just don't like each other, all the tech just thrown out of the window, the timeless elegant design of Klingon ships dropped, awful applications of morality and stupid decisions all around. It has beautiful effects though (even if they completely messed up ship design). The Orville feels like the Star Trek I loved, gets all the points even if it doesn't break barriers.

[@dash4800]

I feel like the people making new star trek are just miserable human beings.

[@GROGU123]

Orville did break barriers, but did it with tact. Unlike STD which wants those barriers right in your face and forced to think the way the writers do. With Orville, the questions are placed in front of you and you're given the chance to think and understand the whether something is right or wrong.

[@watchmanschannelofdespair]

As I'm sure all Star Trek fans know, Seth MacFarlane (a huge fan) pitched the idea of a new Star Trek series to CBS but was shot down. As we all now know, they had their own plans in motion ( I hate their version of Klingons), so this is Seth's Star Trek, trimmed of course and some risqué and over the top humor added at times for obvious reasons. It would have been interesting to have seen that 'official' Star Trek series by MacFarlane; but be that as it may, I wish him and his 'The Orville' series much success.

[@Azzataky]

Damn I didnt know that. RiP CBS decision makers.

[@justinleach5023]

Mocklins..Mock Klingons

[@Claudanne2]

Justin Leach Never thought of it that way. If that's true, its actually kinda clever.

[@1monki]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that. You might be right! lol

[@MrSab177]

MIND BLOWN!

[@MaestroTJS]

They seem to have elements of Vulcans as well, though.

[@Claudanne2]

Maestro_T which is why the word ends with an --in and not an --on

[@DreamstateAwake]

I think setting it a prequel series when they could have had cameos of cannon characters from TNG (etc), was a big mistake. The Orville feels like an actual Trek show, it handles social commentary in a way that I think the franchise is supposed to be about. Being someone who was never the biggest fan but enjoyed the original series reruns in the 80s then TNG, DS9 in the 90s, I dont really feel like STD, is a continuation of that kind of story. I feel like the "Trekkies", of the world are probably better served by the Orville as it carries the spirit of storytelling from the original shows, and even as a casual fan I really appreciate The storytelling.

[@rini6]

Thanks for the overview! I feel like you were trying to be fair but that you do have a favorite... unless I’m projecting. I didn’t sense any enthusiasm about Discovery when you talked about it. Personally, I have been enjoying The Orville every week. It feels warm and funny but is not lacking action or dramatic tension. If I want dark and dystopian I’ll watch Mr Robot.

[@valken666]

STDs last episodes have been anything but dark, just cringe.

[@nox5555]

ST:D isnt dark or distopian, its just badly written. the now they used one of spocks most well known moments for a stupid romance scene. Star trek always had dark moments, witchhunts, terrorism, false flag oprations to get the romulans into a war... there is nothing wrong with showing that the future isnt perfect, as long as you also show that the people we like are not vile or evil and that they always try to be good, they just fail sometimes.

[@bizzarrogeorge]

Irene Haralabatos well, his good friend and collaborator on space command is in STD, so he's not gonna be too harsh. After all, friends want friends to succeed.

[@corey2232]

You act like the Klingon vs Federation war didn't happen. It did. Did you expect it to be warm & funny? Sorry they're exploring an actual piece of ST history.

[@alastairstedman7840]

@@corey2232 well the dominion war wasn't light or funny. But the DS9 guys made episodes where it wasn't all doom and gloom.

[@HMan2828]

"Alara, can you open that jar of pickles for me?" - This is the timeless harmless humor that makes The Orville great... lol The Orville is very much like ST:TNG mixed in with the general atmosphere of ST:Voyager, mixed in with SG:1 and well... Family Guy. I love every minute of it. ST:D should have been called ST:Battlestar Galactica. It's cool to look at and it's a good show on it's own, it's just completely disconnected from every other Star Trek before it (and after, chronologically). Good show, just not really Star Trek in any shape or form.

[@kapa1611]

19:51 "a lot of the decisions they are making seem to be questionable" i think that sums STDiscovery up pretty well xD

[@Stefan-]

Yeah, its both of questionable in quality and its questionable if it is Star Trek in any way other than by name.

[@joshuasnore3600]

Oh my lord. I really needed a good laugh tonight...! Thank you!

[@RetroBerner]

The Orville s01e08 is the best yet, on a whole 'nother level. It also kinda tosses aside the notion that it is just a comedy or parody.

[@mimakake]

Cool, I'm gonna watch it after this video. :)

[@stephenphilips8024]

If you ignore the 'glory hole' gag...

[@DaDunge]

Well the initial gag was pretty meh but totally in character for the character, the moklan using the term (probably not realizing what it means) actually made me laugh.

[@slashandbones13]

Dunge I could be wrong but it seems like that was the plan

[@jackau08]

Orville Ep 8, Pretty much a tng data episode, the only joke is really that glory hole gag, manage to make me laugh lol.

[@kevinoboyle8939]

You lost me at both shows have their merits but I listened to let you make your case. Sorry, Discovery is an insult. Star Trek is dead to me. Long live the Orville!

[@savage1267]

kevin O'Boyle This.

[@RickReasonnz]

He's being diplomatic.

[@andrew41980]

I agree, lost me when he said “both shows are being made by people who love Star Trek” I’m sorry but that is ridiculous and not even close to being true. But, diplomatically phrasing things can be handy when you work along side a soulless entity that would destroy you for speaking ill of it.

[@andresarmento7227]

Discovery it's not Star Trek it is heresy.

[@Vandar54]

​@@andrew41980​Everyone I know in person loves both Star Trek Discovery and The Orville. Both are great shows in their own right.

[@RobotShlomo]

5:54 "Both shows are being done by people who love Star Trek". I disagree right there. I really don't feel that Alex Kurtzman has any love for Star Trek, at least not the Star Trek that he personally hasn't had a direct hand in.

[@Bernie1213]

Whats about Joe Menosky, the writer of "Lethe", who also wrote several TNG, DS) and VOY episodes? Or Nicholas Meyers, who was involved in three of the best Star Trek movies?

[@czdaniel1]

Alex Kurtzman is far higher up the food chain as both series creator and executive producer. Shit they even put him on the screen in the video when talking about selecting theme music. Wiki gives Nicholas Meyers so far a "consulting" credit. So it's nice he got paid to use his name in marketing this crap. As a lover of classic lit he might have told the producers that Carroll wrote Alice in Wonderland as a metaphor for the absurdity of studying advanced mathematics with its impractical applications and absurd concepts like infinity and imaginary numbers. (The underlying premise of Alice in Wonderland can be summed up: Modern Math is Illogical) I can't imagine it being popular with the logical mathematicians of the Vulcan Science Academy which Burnham is shown to aspire to. It's certainly not dealing with the humanist nature concepts explored in Nicholas Meyer's traditional book selections (see: Paradise Lost [Ceti Alpha 5], Moby Dick, & Shakespeare) which come up repeatedly and pointedly in his Star Treks 2 & 6). Meyer's writes award winning Sci-fi and this ain't it. Meyer's references Shakespeare in every Star Trek he's ever done, and there is none here. In conclusion (although I could go on), Meyers is a token inclusion whose name is brought on solely for marketing purposes.

[@THX..1138]

Yes, STD's creators have nothing, but contempt for Star Trek. It's evident in the fact that STD isn't in any way shape or form anything like Star Trek. All BS, all hating aside. If they removed Star Trek from the title of the show, renamed the characters and species. You know, removed the basic kinda visual cues that say Star Trek. Would anyone ever accuse STD of being Star Trek ?...Of course not. Yet Mcfarlin's show couldn't have any of the ST ascetic, yet everyone can tell it's ST in spirit.

[@hazyhalfmoon]

THX 1138 When I think of Kurzman and his spite for the average Star Trek fan, I think of the kids back in Highschool who had similar spite for those of us who liked “nerdy” things. I imagine giving those kids the intellectual property rights to Star Trek. They would say “The Klingons look dumb! Change them! Sarek isn’t cool enough, change him!” Etc. And the end product would be similar to what STD is.

[@MewmewGrrl]

Klingons have been changed so many times now it's practically tradition to change them. Yes, they inserted a lore reason into the story as to why their looks changed in the past (some time after changing them), but in reality it was that they looked dumb and not alien enough and had better make up effects they could apply as time went on. This all became true again today with the advances in make up. The STD Klingons look amazingly alien and cool, not like some dude in a bad wig and mushed up plastic stuck on his forehead like the old ones. I do agree they either need to make up a good story and lore reason why they look different or not be able to claim this is the prime universe (it would make things much more simple to say this wasn't prime, then they could do whatever really and have it work). They do look amazing and so fearsome, but they should have been a new alien species at a different time period, or just again not try to claim this is the prime universe.

[@NatureRecycleFlorida]

STD is not good The Orville is Star Trek with camp scifi added

[@operationcwaI789789]

The winner is Orville. Period.

[@jesse33cdn]

At the next big convention I bet there will be MORE Orville fans dressed up than there will be DSC fans! Can’t wait to see a bunch of TNG Klingons beat up DSC Klingons! Lol I would pay money to see that! 😝

[@kevcom000]

jessica butler what’s dsc? Pretty sure it’s called std for Star Trek discovery and tbh the name fits exceptionally well

[@bidhrohi12]

I'm surprised the writers on Discovery are supposedly so experienced. The narrative does not consistency make good sense. The bickering between characters is not something you'd expect from even a 20th century military organization. The lack of cohesion, the decisions from captains, Michael's unstable character, the idiot officer who gets herself killed by the water bear, none of it reeks of thoughtful writing.

[@czdaniel1]

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Burnham is locked away in a lunatic asylum and all the events of Discovery are happening only in her head. If the story was the representations of a madman, then it would make all the insanity make a lot more sense.

[@robertanthony8227]

+czdaniel1 Star Wrek Recovery is a inaine asylum .0rville is a famly vacation to Disnyland .

[@jonw7937]

I served in the Military for 10 years man. 5 and a half years in the Navy, 4 and a half in the Army. You absolutely never see this type of insubordination. Any hint of it is quickly weeded out and dealt with immediately with judicial punishment and corrective training. That's why I know these writers don't know jack shit about Star Trek or the military at all. Burnham had been on the Shenzhou for 7 years, which means roughly 4 years of Starfleet Academy training. There's no friggen way she would be acting like that after 11 years in a military environment, and ESPECIALLY not as a first officer. Not to mention her time on Vulcan. I'm guessing at least 10 years or more she lived there, and was taught how to suppress her emotions... yet she's the most emotional person on the entire ship as far as we can see... wtf?!? Being in the military you become extremely close with the people you work with, they become closer then family in a lot of ways because of the isolation you experience with these people. For her to attack her Captain, her best friend, her mentor, and military comrade like that was way way way waaaaaaaay out of character..... it made absolutely no sense, and frankly it would not have happened. It would be like me knocking my sister unconscious purely because she disagreed with me and wouldn't do what I told her.... except 100x's worse because that sister is also my superior officer who just so happens to be the commanding officer of that vessels... Not to mention all of that unprofessionalism onboard that ship and the Discovery, with everyone back talking their captain is completely preposterous. That would NEVER happen in the real military. The consequences of disobeying a direct order out of defiance are not fun, trust me, I was Military Police. You respect rank and authority in the military above all else. It is the very first thing you learn in training. If these assholes tried to talk to a real captain the way they do on this show, they would be breaking rocks for weeks... it's not worth it. It's best to just say "Aye sir" and do your job. You can the captain your advice on the matter, if he takes it great. If not, then you better drop it then and there because his mind is made up.

[@jonw7937]

Micheál Lunny it is structured exactly like a military organization. If it wasn't designed to be so military like, then they wouldn't have such a complex ranking system that is exactly the same as the US Navy. Not only that, but they use the exact same disciplinary and award procedures as a normal military. The Federation's main goal is exploration and discovery. But during times of war, it is most certainly used as a military deterrent. The Federation refers to anyone outside their group as civilians. So the best way to describe it is an exploratory defense force with military rank and structure.

[@bidhrohi12]

Admiral, captain, commander, lieutenant, these are military ranks. During disagreements, every captain in Star Trek has used the utterance "that's an order". It's clearly a military structure. Senior officers, "disobeyed a direct order", all these military structures and conducts are clearly portrayed. Only in Discovery have I seen people of different ranks bickering like school children. Look at Voyager. At the very start, you find the actual Star Fleet crew meet with a bunch of rebel fighters (we'd call terrorists in today's jargon) in the Maquis. In the span of two or three episodes, that Maquis crew is absorbed, and they assume the ranks and expected respect of military command structure. Compare that to discovery, where Michael has YEARS of experience, yet shoves her fellow officer from his computer, assaults her captain, and breaks into a lab as a prisoner.

[@davesworld7961]

I love The Orville. I don't sub to CBS so I've only seen the first two episodes. Most people I see talking about them in KZbin comments also love The Orville and hate STD.

[@CaptGrout]

Wait. You wrote "First Contact"? So, you wrote the "Make love to me spaceman!" scene? You sir, are freakin' awesome.

[@czdaniel1]

lol

[@787brx8]

All the major Star Trek movies have been written by A ghostwriter. Same goes with TNG, DS9, Voyager, STD, Enterprise and many other projects that are not Star Trek came from this very prolific writer. His aunt lived on Borg Drive in Sandy Utah when he wrote TNG. Back to the Future is the map to find out who he is.

[@dbeaumontresident847]

Mark I totally agree with you,,,The Orville far outweights Discovery. I so so so wish CBS would have picked up Captain Sulu, and at the least, the current "Star Trek Continues". Shame CBS doesn't listen to the fanbase, and what's worse, they expect us to pay to watch,,,thanks but no thanks. The Orville for me. P.S. Love your work and your videos! have subscribed! **Also** Look forward to Space Command!

[@robertanthony8227]

true

[@joshuas.169]

Yeah, why couldn't they just take possession of one of those fan series. Those shows(I don't count Axanar because it wasn't made) were produced on very little money, the sets already existed, and Discovery is mostly online anyway. I wonder if Disney is going to crack down on Star Wars fan films. Lucasfilm had a much better relationship with fans and fan filmmakers.

[@dilbertjunkmail]

As a reflection upon this NOW 2yr old commentary, Note that CBS has confirmed it "doesn't care what people think of the new STD" (perfect anachronism), they (CBS) will not change direction. Apparently, the latest generation of narcissist entitled fans like this dark hopeless world of Discovery because they see no hope or need for ethical character strength or males except as villains.

[@dbeaumontresident847]

@@dilbertjunkmail Sad but so very true.

[@quantumchang4410]

The Orville is as addictive as Stargate SG-1. I think it's going to be another 10 year series like SG-1. It has all the unpredictable story features of SG-1. You can't expect what's in the next episode. That's the exciting thing about it but sometimes it links ideas learnt from past episodes. That's what achieved the success of SG-1.

[@visionaryventures12]

An element of freshness. Seth can inject humor into "what if" moments that Star Trek incarnations couldn't. BTW, this just came to mind. The ST novel "The Three Minute Universe" had physically repulsive, but helpful aliens. I've been longing to see something like them in a visual episode. Wonder if Seth could play with that.

[@MrBracey100]

I got to meet and talk with Doug Jones for an extended period of time at a con a few years back, he it a really sweet person. Very humble and grateful for his fans and quite generous with his time I thought. It was a real pleasure to meet him and of course he is a brilliant actor.

[@resistnzisfutl]

I sort of think of The Orville as the "Galaxy Quest TV series" after the events in the movie, when the crew actually took the material seriously.

[@jacobpakman8691]

resistnzisfutl There is a Galaxy Quest TV series in production.

[@WoodysAR]

resistnzisfutl Haha! Totally. 'The real adventures of: ...' !

[@amaniwolf]

I haven't watched The Orville yet, but you've actually convinced me to check it out. And i am so looking forward to Space Command.

[@bidhrohi12]

Orville's pretty awesome.

[@Opinwood]

Remember: Orville pilot kind of sucks but a few episodes in the quality picks up dramatically.

[@Philiptanzer]

Once you get to episode 3 you'll be hooked, it feels like watching TNG again - even down to the transition music. Love it.

[@TheSchaef47]

Keep a close eye out for Cassidy Yates. She's the CMO of the Orville.

[@watsbrewing]

STD is a disgrace to the Star trek universe , The Orville on the other hand is light years ahead in terms of content quality.....

[@dylanlewis3038]

Star Trek Discovery is a Trek show trying to be like the BSG reboot (and failing). Orville is a parody show that is trying to be a Star Trek show ( and succeeding). Orville is the Trek successor, not in name but in its heart and soul. Yes, it has some more comedic elements, but so did the old Trek shows (Tribbles,Worf’s prune juice, etc), Orville just has a few more. Many Trek alumni are working on Orville, I can think of 5 off the top of my head, as opposed to Discovery’s 1 that I can think of.

[@mikevasquez1103]

The Star Trek Discovery episode titles fuel almost like the Memoirs of a man who is slowly slipping into madness.

[@sydneyloli5849]

Your enthusiasm for the Orville is such a contrast to the way you spoke about discovery. I've not seen Orville yet. I've tried discovery and it took me over a year to get through 1 episode via netflix. I'll never get that time back. I can't do the 2nd episode.

[@Bangcat]

Am I the only one here who finds the irony in the new STAR TREK being known as STD? Or am i just one if the few here willing to say it?

[@dilbertjunkmail]

Their are no coincidences in TV series and the anachronism reflects the true contempt the STD writers have for original ST and it's fandom. Current story telling seems to require hooking audiences into beloved characterizations or single characters, then totally destroying vestiges of hope to teach sheep a lesson for NOT noticing the WOLF!

[@garth56]

It's funny looking at all the comments below..The esteemed commentator above went through the Orville episode by episode then STD 1+2 jumped to 7 and basically said it was pants..So for all you ST fans lets look back at Next Gen series one..Pants Series 2 Pants series 3 ahh it's getting better..The Orville is still in it's infancy and doing better than STD..Ahh you might say well STD is still in it's first series..But it's pissing people of so badly spending huge amounts of money on crap stories that say nothing other than look at me..I have waited for what seems a life time since Voyager left the screens and then two shows appear at one time..The Orville with Star Trek people behind it STD with money..mmm A good series really doesn't need a huge amount of cash what it needs is a decent story and people who are behind the show and give you a sense of the original..I'll take the Orville any day..Maybe Seth might want to think about Blakes 7 now that would be really good :-)

[@BarsimonR]

This is why I am enjoying your channel so much...the insights you give based on your experience into the writing process of shows.

[@fernandogarajalde4066]

You make a valid point that satire differentiates Orville from STD. Also, if CBS dared to sue FOX over copyright infringement it would be admitting the failure of STD to capture a larger percentage of ST fans. MacFarlane pulled this off masterfully and getting a second season for it is the payoff.

[@DaDunge]

19:45 Also she's been on that ship for seven years, she can't be older than 25, are they seriously telling us she became a starfleet commander at 18? Real life commissioned officers are a fair bit older when they reach ranks that high. I think I would have had a lot easier accepting the main character if she had been played by an older woman with some gravitas.

[@kapa1611]

i agree! i also found the idea that the captain and michael had worked together for 7 years unbelievable.. i never felt like their relationship had any weight to it, or that there was much respect.. the show has difficulties conveying emotions in general xD

[@davidhyslop3376]

have you seen american war movies the Lt is always a college kid

[@DaDunge]

+David Hyslop Lt is the lowest rank of commissioned officer, they do tend to be fairly young. Commanders tend to have served a few years as Lts before making Commander. And in starfleet a first officer is as far as I can tell always a commander.

[@jonw7937]

You also have to take into account that she had to go through Starfleet Academy so she should likely be closer to 30. So roughly 11 years of Starfleet training, professionalism, and experience.... and she acts like that as a first officer? Nope, these writers have no idea what they're doing. I served 10 years in the military. The people you serve with become closer than family in a lot of cases because of the prolonged isolation and the experiences you have with these people. Her attacking her captain, mentor, and apparent best friend like that would have been worse than her attacking her older sister. Plus she was on Vulcan for probably a decade, and yet she is the most emotional person on that entire ship.... None of it fits, the writing on that show is abhorrent.

[@TorianTammas]

@@davidhyslop3376 The position is Captain of ship. One is first a common officer may be get XO and then one may become a Captain.

[@jaredtaylor834]

I disagree with Issac being like Data. Data wants to become more human, where Issac is from a race that considers themselves superior to all others, who is there simply to try and open relations between the union and the kaylon. Also as you mentioned the Orville is satire and we know Seth is a big fan of Trek, but I feel that what you SEEM to view as a weakness- the reuse of what I'll call a Sci-fi cliches, is an advantage. They can tell these older stories in fun new ways. As the videos progressed it seems you have more agreement than I initially thought when I began this, but like Family Guy, I'm sure his intention is to use these cliches purposely to poke fun at something he loves. I find this to be a strength and think the comparison between TNG is irrelevant in that the purpose of the Orville is supposed to be a "modern" comical take on those older shows. Also, the series has gone farther than what you've seen at the time you made this, but it seems that these earlier episodes actually have content that, as the series continues, are more relevant than initially seemed. Also I think you can't compare the Orville to Discovery. Aside from sci-fi and space exploration, they aren't the same kind of show. One can not be objectively be better than the other (no TV show can be really) but they can't be compared as if they were the same kind of show. They exist at opposite ends of the spectrum. Ultimately all you can do is decide which is better for you. The Orville seems to be "growing" as we are farther in the series now, and I think will last. However you would be more in line comparing Discovery to something like Game of Thrones.

[@rower41]

I've read most of the books behind you... we are of similar age so it makes sense. I even see some E.E. "Doc" Smith--ultimate space opera. I try just to remember those books rather than to re-read them; sadly, I think my young brain was much more impressed by Heinlien, Bradbury, Clarke, and Azimov than it would be now. Great summary and analysis of these two shows. I like The Orville a lot.

[@SuntJack]

Tried to watch Discovery and after a few episodes I watched one from The Orville. I love Orville now. Frankly is amazingly good.

[@oliverfranke7650]

The Orville developed a lot from the first episode. Though sometimes the comedy elements seems to be a bit too much, it is mostly focussing on the very well written stories ad the characters. Actually the cast of The Orville is more likable than the cast of Discovery. They were chosen well, and the show does greatly benefit from writers and directors who are veterans of the Star Trek franchise. And this influence can be seen throughout the whole series, which gives it some familiar, a more Star Trek like, appearance. Actualy I think we should stop considering it as a Star Trek spoof or parody. Well, I cannot say I like Discovery. The characters on Discovery seem dull, sometimes boring and in case of Tilly even annoying. I think it is ok to chose a darker appearance for Starfleet, but altering the whole universe was a big mistake. In the first two episodes you get the impression Starfleet and the Federation seem to lack of the morale and ethics which were established over the last fifty years. I also got the impression that the Federation and especially Starfleet appear as opressive organizations. I mean in the second episode we see the trial of Burnham. This was not a courtyard of the Federation. It seemed more like interrogation rooms we have seen on Cardassia or Romulus. She was sentenced to a lifeterm in prison, without facing her prosecutors or having an attorney. That is just crazy. And if that is not enough, we see prisoners sold to a mining colony for hard and dangerous work. Then we see the enslavement of sentient beings to support the Federations war efforts, a lunatic in command of a top secret warship and what the hell happend to Harry Mudd? Now he has become a psychopath, traitor, and murderer. Honestly, I think Dicovery is good SciFi. But it does not fit into the Star Trek universe. A better appproach would have been to place it into a whole new universe/timeline or at least letting it take place some time after Voyager and Nemesis or even in the Kelvin timeline. In fact we see Starfleet developing into a more militarized organization during and after the Dominion war. So a darker setting might even work in a future setting. But as they decided to place it ten years before TOS it seems totally misplaced at all. As for me, I will stick to the Orville. It may be consideredt outdated for certain parts of the Star Trek fandom, but at least I can identify with the setting, the characters and the stories.

[@Novarcharesk]

DIS is set before all other Star Trek, multiple decades before in fact. Of course practice will be different in how it is administered.

[@oliverfranke7650]

+Novarcharesk Nope, it is not.

[@davidlipman8093]

My only disagreement is that STD is good sci fi. It fails on every level

[@vegeta002]

@@Novarcharesk Discovery is 10 years before TOS, Enterprise is 100+ years before TOS.

[@tetsuoswrath]

14 year old mentalities should enjoy STD. Because they say fuck and shit. To me, Discovery is JJ Trek and not Roddenberry Trek. And Roddenberry Trek trumps JJ Trek every day of the week. They've dumbed down Trek with STD. Brought it down to the lowest common denominator. Orville is the only Roddenberry Trek show at the moment. And it's got problems, but I can look past that and still enjoy it since it's closer to real Trek. :{

[@robertanthony8227]

true statment true

[@Booyaka9000]

STD is NOT JJ Trek. JJ Trek is superior to Discovery in that it shares a hell of a lot more similarities to the Trek universe than Discovery, like knowledge of and respecting the established lore (mostly) for one. Discovery is the equivalent of asking someone who doesn't watch Trek, who doesn't care for Trek, to produce a Trek series. It's called STD for a reason: Because it's ailing and diseased.

[@Tokiofritz]

Yeah, all the mature people love shows with blue aliens that ejaculate blue semen over women. Roddenberry would be proud.

[@EinherjarLucian]

Pretty sure Roddenberry would have chuckled. Then he would have watched Episodes 6 through 8 and said "wow, this is some good science fiction".

[@EinherjarLucian]

That's what pissed me off about the whole pilot for Discovery. In The Orville, the designated idiot ball carriers are played for laughs for the most part. You know when they're around, something dumb is going to happen, and we're probably going to have a laugh about it, or at least roll our eyes and shake our heads. In S1E7, one of those idiot ball carriers willfully ignores good sense, morality, and obeying orders, manages to drive the plot and create tension anyway, suffers greatly for it, but... it's comedy. You expect it from him. And you start to wonder what kind of stupid nonsense is he or his coworker are going to pull next episode. In the pilot episode of Discovery, Burnham picks up the idiot ball and never puts it down the entire episode. Everything, *everything* that happens is because she *willfully* ignores good sense, morality, and obeying orders in order to drive the plot and create tension... but she's not *meant* to be the designated idiot ball carrier. She's the worst application of the idiot ball carrier: someone who should *know better*, but becomes dumb just for the sake of plot. It leaves you wondering how she got to where she did given her established patterns of behavior.

[@japzone]

I don't get why he even needs satire as a defense. The reason the Star Trek fan stuff can be cracked down on is that they are using Star Trek iconography and other trademarks of the Star Trek brand. However besides having a similar setting and story style, The Orville doesn't use anything owned by CBS and Paramount. So there's no legal footing for CBS and Paramount to cone after them.

[@cassiusdio1138]

unless you are making a profit no one can crack down on your fan movie..

[@ADCar]

If The Orville owes Star Trek for ripping off the idea, then Star Trek owes Forbidden Planet for the same reason.

[@kadajawi6567]

Come on. Orville is really close to Star Trek. You could argue it's like that Land Wind SUV that kind of looks like a Range Rover Evoque. It's not a 1:1 copy, but it is rather close. Maybe Orville could be upheld in court, but maybe not. If it wasn't done by a big studio with huge financial resources, CBS would be all over the Orville.

[@robertanthony8227]

+Al Carnali true

[@numberslettersass]

If they want us to stop keeping interest in the subject then OK. Lock it up and air the episodes from the 60s. You want Trek to continue being a house hold name THAT THE FANS MADE, then leave them alone to generate content. All big productions seem to do is cancel shows and use fan bases as platforms for alterior motives. As it is, every game released wont get a mod community to keep people playing for years, as most trek games get and NO ONE NOTICES. Every toy you release is bought even though there is no difference between new ones and things made 20 years ago. Same crap, we just like it that much. No one would invest in the ethos of Trek if it seemed like a college grad from the last decade was using his job at CBS to push what their professor made them memorize and spew. Why collect this crap is you just reboot it without asking us what we want to see? F Star Trek. I have the old stuff I am content with. I figured we wouldnt get what we want and now I cant even watch awesome fan films. So I am done. Orville is the new Trek. Star Trek is a cheap knock off of, Star Trek. Fan films are original ans studio productions are immitations. Reality is stranger than fiction.

[@MarrisaStrong]

This is my first video of yours, you had me at Space Command. Holy smokes! That sounds amazing! Loved everything you had to say. It was so interesting! It's a great analysis.

[@williamomalley6060]

After DS9 I wanted Trek to be unafraid to look at ‘grittier’ storylines, a darker show done as an arc. But Discovery is just all over the place. I’m sticking with it to see if it improves and there has been improvement but for me the key downfall so far is in the editing. With Discovery we have a new show with all the technical tricks up its sleve, years of experience of producing TV and sci-fi shows specifically... and yet at best the feel you get Is that it’s a spin off of the JJ Abrams movies where the focus is on lense flare and less on characters and coherrent storylines.

[@freagarthach4228]

A question: Does STD follow a storyline set by Mr. Fuller or did producers / writers throw it away to make a story of their own? What do you think?

[@kapa1611]

great question!

[@MrSciFi]

I don't know, but either way it's problematical.

[@jazzx251]

The last episode (the groundhog day episode) was pretty good. I'm starting to like some of the characters in Discovery. Even the hard-bitten captain who begs his Admiral girlfriend not to take his ship away. If it wasn't for the Orville, I honestly believe that Star Trek Discovery would be my favourite must-watch show right now. Because we've been starved of Star Trek for so long - and then two shows come along at the same time [one pretends not to be Star Trek - but it obviously is]. I firmly believe most people - especially after these 7 episodes - would be much more favourable to Star Trek Discovery if "The Orville" had never existed. I like both shows.

[@neilfuller6024]

Ironically, personally, if it were Not for The Orville, I could Not stomach Disco.

[@B5guy]

I think they wanted to throw it all away so they can create Star Trek in their own image.

[@j.p.9522]

Thank you for writing "Far Beyond the Stars", one of the best and most progressive DS9 episodes ever.

[@walterdevos8752]

CBS should grand licenses to small companies to make (cheap) Star Trek shows. Nobody asked for big sets and grandiose CGI. We just want our weekly fix. How is it that we have to wait 10+ years and still get something that neither tastes nor smells like Star Trek. There must be a law against such torture.

[@nurlindafsihotang49]

....those CBS producers and heads...HOW DID THEY GOT THEIR JOB? i tought product knowledge and sustaining the brand's distiction are the basic marketing strategy in niche market ..as any economy and MBA graduate are taught!.

[@nurlindafsihotang49]

....those CBS producers and heads...HOW DID THEY GOT THEIR JOB? i tought product knowledge and sustaining the brand's distiction are the basic marketing strategy in niche market ..as any economy and MBA graduate are taught!.

[@nurlindafsihotang49]

....those CBS producers and heads...HOW DID THEY GOT THEIR JOB? i tought product knowledge and sustaining the brand's distiction are the basic marketing strategy in niche market ..as any economy and MBA graduate are taught!.

[@GtheMVP]

STD pulls me out of the moment every time I hear the name Michael. Her name is unbelievably stupid. Her character has been very unlikable as well. It doesn't help that her acting is awful, as she goes from Vulcan to ghetto chick between sentences while being a a cunty person. She's also a Mary Sue type character, like Rey in Star wars. There's been very little to root for, as she's been an unlikable know it all who can do everything. Everyone on Discovery was pretty cunty to each other in fact, with very little development, but thankfully that's changing. I like the new security officer and Dwight as Mudd is a great fit! I like Lorca too, he's a great section 31 operative in the making! I'm also enjoying the mirror universe foreshadowing. The Orville is pure Star Trek magic. I love the crew, the music (the opening theme/video is wonderful) and the feel of the show overall. It's what great sci-fit is all about, relatable stories with characters we care about overcoming obstacles and growing as people.

[@voxdraconia4035]

GtheMVP Rey aint a Mary Sue, its an urban myth held high to diminish TFA and the new star wars ...just correcting that ^^

[@czdaniel1]

+Vox Draconia -- She goes overnight from believing the Force and Luke are a myth to being a mind-controlling, light-saber dueling, Holds-Her-Own in battle against a baby Syth-lord (who is a Skywalker no less)...I think she even knows how to fly now. So living a subsistence life of picking up trash in the desert, there is nothing she cannot do. That's like the shining example of Mary Sue

[@czdaniel1]

Not that I care. That's just my understanding, and I only watched TFA that one time I saw it in theaters two years ago

[@robertanthony8227]

true

[@robertanthony8227]

+czdaniel1 true,true

[@christopherhandscomb6614]

STD is NOT star trek , they've just used the star trek brand to push their show, if they'd made it with a completely different name then i'd appreciate it more. don't get me wrong what i've seen so far is good but it's just not star trek. for starters they're not klingons! "spore drive" load of balls!!! and not to mention the holo communicators that were only just being installed in star ships at the end of DS9, all this before kirk etc NO, just NO. The Orville however is brilliant. perfect balance of sci-fi and comedy, complete with great story lines and characters and feels more like star trek than STD. i think the only reason STD managed to get green lit was because they put the star trek name on it. Also if they would have set it after DS9 and Voyager some of the plot ("spore drive") would have made more sense!

[@paulbmi2976]

Outstanding thank you so much as an old guy from the 60’s I so enjoy the the experience!

[@cheshirecat1611]

A thing that sometimes bothers me is that many people assume that the age demographic of star trek fans is predominantely older. Of couse there are fans who grew up with the original show, like my father who just turned 60 but I also grew up with star trek TOS. There are many fans in their late 20's watching star trek to my knowledge. I often think that people my age have a very bleak view of the world and a show like star trek can give us hope and make us think in these difficult times. I think that is what has made it popular even with younger audiences now. There are may shows like breaking bad and game of thrones. In my oponion we do not need another show that goes down the same bleak, dark path but one that encapsulates what star trek was originally about: a good future in which we aspire to live one day!

[@ez-8238]

Orville hands down.

[@lllFeanorlll]

I've never liked Seth McFarlane in anything before, I went in expecting to hate the Orville. Instead, it's lovely homage to the Trek I love which is steadily finding it's own voice and going from strength to strength. Star Trek Discovery is terrible. I've tried to like it, but it's just not good. There are so many things wrong with it that even the tiniest thing they do well you want to cling to but really, that's not a recipe for success. It's pretty I guess. But misplaced. It's like they do not care about any ST that has gone before it and they'll just do whatever they like and we're supposed to enjoy it. Sadly I'm not.

[@Azzataky]

Discovery is a good drama sci-fi, Orville is a good Trek. :D Discovery still might explain all the shit during next episodes but there are some weird things about it.

[@shadowpigglet]

I completely agree. I hate The Family Guy. I didn’t watch Orville because of that thinking the same as you. But after all the positive reviews, I’m going to rent the first season.

[@charleskingsley9685]

What a cool opertunity to listen to somebody who has worked in the TV industry for years. This is awesome. Your videos are much appreciated and enjoyed good sir. Thank you

[@hazelmaylebrun6243]

Sometimes I like what Seth does and sometimes I don't, but I always appreciate the scope of his talent, whether it be writing, acting, voices, animation, and on and on and on. I'm not surprised that he did something like this. He also paid homage to Adam West before he passed away. Seth is respectful and generous with actors and productions that he enjoys.

[@stuartlivermore6493]

Not a complaint, really, but your audio seems a little low. And The Orville all the way. Love that show.

[@torhagen]

At the very least Discovery needs to use the actual Klingon Ship designs not to speak of returning to the actual Klingons not talking about the looks(they already break canon more than enough) the klingons must be returned to being klingons immediately Many would gladly watch a more orville styled STD in change for STD actually being Star Trek what you ignore you is that all previous star trek series where star trek even when they where new STD first needs to be Star Trek

[@VanGarrett]

I hear you on the Klingons. They had to make the Klingons tell us over and over that they're Klingons, because we otherwise would never know. It makes those scenes a bit like reading the "totallynotrobots" subreddit.

[@mattw1730]

I love hearing your insights, on both these shows, as well as the industry and genre in general. Please keep up these videos, Sir! They're very much appreciated. P.S. Please say hi to Doug personally for us, he's great!

[@johnmullins5258]

CBS needs to fire Kurtzman and hire you to take his place.

[@FlyingTiger2099]

Star Trek Discovery is dismal, alienating, totally ignores established lore and canon and also insultingly is yet another prequel. It is also doomed by atrocious acting and the least popular kind of politics forced front and center. It can't last and it won't. Marvel SJW went down in flames, and so will STD. Orville is a love letter, just as Star Wars was in its time and it will endure and grow. It filled an empty niche. As for the critique by Marc, I have listened to two now and both times he nerfs and blows the call. That pattern makes him interesting to listen to but not a trusted source for critique. I'm out.

[@1monki]

The "Krill" episode of "The Orville" started out as an interesting "Trek" idea that I assume the Federation would do, but we've never seen. A society like the Federation would try to find out everything they could about someone they're in conflict with. Try to figure out how to deal with them non-violently, which would require information. It's a shame they dropped that idea so quickly in the episode. But I think, for the idea to work, it would have to play out in the background over a few episodes. Build it around some action and mystery. A science like anthropology could play an important part. Real anthropology, not Chakotay anthropology. But that wouldn't really be a good fit for a comedy show.

[@Claudanne2]

1monki I thought the Krill would just get high degree burns and just need to get skin grafting or something, not die.

[@1monki]

That might have been funnier. They're all still alive, but too sunburnt to work the controls. Lol. But that doesn't really work with the plot.

[@kapa1611]

i think it would have been better if they figures out a way to save all the people on the ship. the way they did it, by just saving the children, made it seem like the lesson they learned was too narrow. instead of learning that all their lives are important by meeting innocent children, they literally only thought the children s lives were important xD its kinda comical

[@alwaysthinking168]

I appreciate your commentary. There is a difference between knowledge and information with speculation. Your wealth of knowledge on the subject of sci-fi and specifically Star Trek is unmatched on KZbin. Thanks.

[@MrSciFi]

Thanks!

[@flounder2760]

wondering why my rig500s occasionally dont let certain youtube vids play sound.... hwen i can literally tab open a video on the sidebar and it will play sound while this one remains silent. hell the advertisement that played before the vid had sound.

[@ideamaker]

Most people, like yourself in this video, smile when talking about The Orville, you just can't help it. Likewise most people when talking about the new Star Trek: Discovery show, immediately you can see the disappointment on their face, regardless of how they feel about the show. Meaning, if like you they want to show support for the show, they'll go into "Excuse Mode" trying to explain away why the show is the way it is, and that's just sad. The reality is, it shouldn't have to be this way, but that's what happens when corporate greed hijacks our childhood and runs it into the ground. :(

[@Tychoxi]

I'm liking the Orville more and more with each passing episode (the brand of humor is generally not to my liking and acting is at times atrocious especially from Mr. MacFarlane!) but it's still hitting close to that specific itch StarTrek is about. As for Discovery, I stopped watching by episode 4.

[@mbaxter22]

Tychoxi Agree; wasn’t an Orville fan at first, but it keeps getting better. They’re learning not to overdo or force the humor, to the benefit of the show.

My niece introduced me to Discovery.My question to her was;”Why is everyone so ANGRY!” I introduced her to The Orville,she loves it!

[@phlojem285]

Gordon isn't the second officer, that's Bortus. Gordon is the Orville's Pilot.

[@Slitheringpeanut]

I was kind of hoping for a more critical look of either series, but it sounds like Mr. Sci-fi wants to keep working in Hollywood. :(

[@savage1267]

Slitheringpeanut That bastard! Lol

[@skepticalpickle5258]

I absolutely love the Orville!

[@MrNexusPrime]

I am a life long Trek fan, but the Orville is a ship I would actually like to serve on. Gets my imagination all excited, which is the goal of a scifi show in my opinion! Cant wait for more to drop! 6 seasons and a movie or bust.

[@briank8846]

The Orville has replaced Star Trek in my mind. Its wittier, more entertaining, and better SciFi vs Soap Opera.

[@IMDARKFIRE007]

I love the fact former trek actors will be starring on the Orville like Robert Picardo just did. If it has their stamp of approval, I think any fan should give it a fair chance. I enjoy both shows, but I think Discovery will fizzle out LONG before the Orville. The overly politically correct gay couple storylines are hurting both shows...and Discovery's willingness to use the word fuck has Roddenberry spinning in his grave. Not perfects shows, but good respectively.

[@TristynRusselo]

-Oh... Sliders... 'Member Sliders? =Oh yeah!.... I 'Member Sliders! Sliders was good!

[@dougswamprat5275]

Watching this while doing the dishes. Kept thinking, ah washing machine almost finished. Then I remember I didn't put any washing on!

[@SrAGraciaM]

Hi, Sr. Great channel. Great talk. I´m a hardcore sci fan. (SG1, BTG, StarTrek and so on) And It´s wonderful to hear someone with your experience, share your view and all your knowlage. Congrats!

[@skyscreamstudios]

I really don't understand the decision to set STD before TOS. It makes no sense. Either do a period piece or set it after Romulus blew up.

[@theAlgeroth]

They needed a way to get out of that shitty Kelvin-timeline...

[@Michursky]

romulus never blew up, forget about jj abrams

[@skyscreamstudios]

gniewomir lol - Yeah, it did. It's cannon. Grow up and deal with it.

[@Michursky]

Trek canon ends around the end of 24th century - Romulus still there. JJ Trek is not canon

[@skyscreamstudios]

gniewomir lol - Seriously? Okay. The official Star Trek website defines canon as comprising the television series Star Trek: The Original Series, Star Trek: The Animated Series, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, Star Trek: Discovery, and the films in the franchise. Star Trek (2009) is listed as one of those movies. The events leading up to the Narada, as well as Spock, travelling back in time happened in the "prime" universe. Romulus blew up. They travelled back in time creating a new, separate, timeline. Don't care if you like it or not. It's canon. lol.

[@deadpanbarry5442]

To quote Highlander the film.........There can be only one.

[@robertanthony8227]

true only one

[@deadpanbarry5442]

Mike DeMarco Not a guy to follow the prime directive....to many dead body's. But he would be a great captain in future series of Star trek.

[@retromillenium]

No there doesn't have to be only one.

[@randymagnum143]

"But Angus always peas his kilt!" That's the quote I remember.

[@nolanburkhart5318]

So where and when can we watch Space Command? Been to website and didnt see anything addressing this.

[@drosengarten]

My Vote: Orville. Hey how about the blob?

[@Bangcat]

Winner, he says it's the audience. He doesn't states either as being better than the other. While i can get that message, it's still click bait and a cop out. Sorry man. I'll be the one to call it despite your contributions. Still some good points, and again contribution attempts past recognised. But still a cop out.

[@NisansaDdS]

The point is, he wants to say it is Orville but he is bound by friendships and contracts to Discovery people (he even mentions this). So the best he can do is say "both are good". Instead of saying "Orville is better".

[@nicosteffen364]

STD is a dark show, nothing that Gene wanted, where is the moral, where is the good? The Orville is much better, its not only about surviving no matter what it takes, the characters are normal, everyone can imagine being one of the crew! These are not like robots, not alltime whithout emotions, its funny, serious, moral and interesting! At the moment The Orville is my absolute favorite scifi show, second is Babylon5 then TNG, TOS, VOY, DS9, ENT, STD is not even close, Space above and beyond, Space Command and others are better! In fact i hate STD and CBS/Paramount for stopping all fan made series/movies! They could have supportet the fanfilms and given them something like a permission, like a franchise, that would have been bettter! With what happend the kill STAR TREK, in short terms it will pay off, but in long term they will loose!

[@Telcomvic]

The Orville is about the only show I look forward to watching every week. I will not pay for streaming and cable so I guess I'll never see STD. No loss from what I see in the comments posted below.

[@rocketdave719]

I have to say, after having been exposed to way too much vitriol from toxic fans who have been against Discovery since it was first announced, I thought this was a pretty fair, evenhanded video. To my surprise, The Orville has grown on me, but I think you explain better than I could why The Orville's formula wouldn't work with modern Star Trek. I mean, what nearly killed the franchise to begin with was its failure to innovate and change with the times. If they made a Trek show today that felt like a rehash of TNG, as The Orville very much does, I think there would be a lot of complaints about that, just like there were with Voyager and Enterprise. I can't claim that Discovery has completely won me over so far, but I'm far more bored with disgruntled Star Trek fans than I am with Star Trek itself.

[@anthonybarlow5955]

I think you spent 30min only to be neutral not give an honest opinion glad I skip to the end

[@numberslettersass]

STD is not made with fans in mind. Axanar should have been signed. Fans loved it so what was done? Kill fan made films. Now we have something that is terrible and we have to say thank you for a generic sci fi show that stole Star Trek and ruined it. Why say its the prime universe and then reboot it? Fans wanted to go forward but we get ANOTHER prequel. Why say these are kilngons when they ARENT? Also, making Klingons into white nationalists pissed me off to no end. We need MORE nausia when it comes to shiw biz and Trump, SJW and everything else I dont want to see on a fantasy sci fi show. Commentary and messages were smart and measured on Trek. Now its a CIA mouth piece. Orville is the new Trek. BTW, after a 23 year stint as a loyal fan, I am done with Trek. Killing the fan films was too far. Then they spat on OUR show.

[@rollandland4690]

Axanar SUCKED!

[@retromillenium]

Alec Peters fucked over fan films, and the studio had every right to crack down on him because he was making a profit off of the donations to make the movie. It's been 4 years, where is the movie? Thanks to him, all fan films are fucked.

[@conroypawgmail]

CBS screwed fan films, not Axanar / Alec Peters. CBS could have gone after Peters, and left fan films alone. Heck, they could have embraced fan films like George Lucas does for Star Wars fan films, but instead, they decided to go after them. You can hate Peters and Axanar all you want, but put the blame were it belongs. CBS does not care for the fans. PERIOD.

[@joshuas.169]

Both screwed the fan films. Peters by taking money from donors and not making the movie. CBS/Paramount by destroying their relationship with their fan base.

[@rocketdave719]

If that con artist Peter had pulled this same crap with the Star Wars IP instead of Star Trek, you can bet your ass Lucasfilm would have cracked down on him the same way CBS/Paramount did.

[@bwold9138]

Fantastic review! I'm excited for your new show!

[@geoAriton]

I don't know what started this discussion, but I love this. Thank you!

[@andrewtitchiner1435]

Too bad you didn’t wait for 8 episodes as I would love to hear you opinion on Into the Fold. I thought it was absolutely fantastic.

[@MrSciFi]

I'll post about that soon.

[@werkis2]

For me, it was worst Orvilles episode (That plot has been done to many times)except for humour which I finally liked. It's interesting that Star Trek fans like Orville's 8 episode more that Orville's fans! And doctor injuring and killing alien mutants was just wrong ! Hope there will be consequences! For me so far 1-7 epsiodes where great except this 8 !

[@nox5555]

+werkis2 the orville is much more human, and the doctor acted like a mother tryng to save her children would act. yes it doesnt fits into the trek vibe but its still fine.

[@sircusa]

+werkis2 I thought it was interesting to see how Dr Finn differed from the other doctors and considering she's pretty much a veteran in the Union compared to the rest of the crew, it's quite plausible for her to be used to these life or death situations. With that said though, I'd have to put all of these character-focused episodes on the lower end of my list of favourites since they all don't seem to explore enough of the character for my liking.

[@nox5555]

+sircusa most character focused episodes are to humanise the aliens. thats a good idea in the first season, you cant build up the character so soon anyway because people need time to accept growth.

[@BlackBox863]

STD ripped off Anaxar, But Anaxar is still better

[@kevinhasch6439]

STD is a clusterf**k! It doesn't deserve the name. Long live the Orville!

[@randyrau565]

Careful and clear insights! Happy to subscribe to this channel .

[@jasonb348]

The Berman era for Trek was the best. He balanced Rodenberry’s vision with the writers’ need to tell interesting stories containing conflict. Discovery makes me sad. It’s completely lacking in the essence that makes Star Trek what it is. Orville on the other hand...if you remove the comedy and have the character speak in a more regal manner, you have Star Trek.

[@Azzataky]

Its almost like MacFarlane knew they fuck Trek up so he made for the fans the one of his own. We can only thank him for that.

[@WilAdams]

You are so off-base on this assessment. STD is not okay. All the excuses you make for this clap-trap are just that excuses. This show ruined Harry Mudd's character. In TOS he was just a scamp for than anything else, but now they have turned him into a psychopath. Further, they let him off the ship even after he has the knowledge of who the pixie dust drive works--which is what he came there to get!! As for the her for him girl (?) 'star' she is talentless as an actress, and the timeline has ruined any chance of this crap becoming a hit. Yes, I know both have been re-newed for season 2, BUT the Orville EARNED it through viewer support, while it was announced even before the debut of STD it would consist of two seasons.

[@robertanthony8227]

true statment

[@robertanthony8227]

true

[@Athonite]

To be fair to the Mudd character, he just endured a lot of torture at the hands of the Klingons, that torture was extended when Lorca left him behind...so I understand when he's cuckoo for murder-puffs... there will be several years for him to settle back into being a cheesy con man again. TBH Lorca was the screw up in the end - he should have arrested Mudd and/or tossed him out an airlock.

[@aster_nova]

Constitutionalist Libertarian Joke's on you, I'm an SJW and I despise DIS. The femfreq podcast has some good critique about how shitty it is as a show and how the plots literally fall apart. Maybe instead of generalizing about people who share different ideas of social ideals, you take the time to read things from your political opponents that are not strawman accounts. LLAP \\//_

[@AdonisGaming93]

Where is ST:D viewrship stats? CBS said they got a lot for episode 1 but nowhere released the views of each episode. Orville has them all listen easily on the wikipedia page. That says something.

[@Anonymous-vk4sx]

"Nothing in the Orville couldn't have been done in 1997" Season 2 Episode 3. The CGI in that episode was crazy.

[@Bangcat]

The reality is that Orville wins despite the copout answer given here. The larger fan base declares the show, the well named "STD" pretty bad. Like really bad... They're going to learn the hard way that the SJW curve they're using is not only cancer, but it's no longer the cash cow Anita made it. Again, the winner is The Orville, in spades. It wasn't hard to win this one.

[@Will.C.]

Star Trek is dead, long live The Orville.

[@greebo7857]

Talk about a round about way to get to the point. However, at around 10:40 the self styled Mr Sci-Fi hits on a major point. STD is $10 Million an episode, and all that $$$ is about "cinema quality". It isn't about plot, or writing, it's about image. Exactly the problem with the poor JJ ST films. All about what it looks like, and NOT about what it IS. Seth Macfarlane understands the ST universe, AND its' fans, far more than these pseudo intellectuals do. He has recreated TOS, and TNG, in a modern setting,. He understands Gene Roddenberry far more than this so called Mr Sci-Fi eve will. I'm glad Mr Sci-Fi ain't writing for Seth. He ain't good enough.

[@chrisseaman5055]

Good insights. Thanks, sir. 9:48 Heinlein nod! By the way, I want to start writing SF (starship troopersish) episodes. Got any advice for me?