Star Wars Apologists!

[@toweypat]

"Don't worry, the new movie will fill in these plot holes." LOL!

[@Chablar89]

Patrick Towey I thought exactly the same :D

[@sirazazeloflowkey6424]

Patrick Towey Well it came out and it filled us in...not. lol

[@xlrouge]

LOL indeed

[@0ExG0]

yeah...

[@MrOnomatopoiea]

Don't worry, the future of Star Wars is in good hands with Broom Boy!

[@douglasquaid1711]

Everything you say in this video has been validated by the mess that is the Last Jedi, great insight.

[@DVSPress]

Get your ass to Mars.

[@kd9262]

I'm loving every minute of it... for once, it doesn't feel like I'm living in a episode of The Twilight Zone

[@Aidey75]

This video and all of your other The Force Awakens videos I have seen are 1000% spot on. Your knowledge on the principles of good storytelling and movie making in general as well as the music score is top level...and on top of that your knowledge of the Star Wars universe is most impressive. Full respect. You sir are a true fan.

[@Chinga3000]

+Aidey75 One of my favourite childhood memories is being taken to the big posh Odeon in Leicester square by my nan to watch StarWars:Return Of The Jedi . To see what Abrams did to it hurts.

[@Aidey75]

+Chinga3000 I had a very similar experience in the Brisbane Mall with my aunty, lining up around the corner and down the mall just to watch Return of the Jedi. What Abrams has managed to do is water down a classic saga and turned it into a run of the mill Avengers/Marvel style tripe and yes it does hurt. And the truly sad thing is that the mob don't seem to care less about the crappiness of TFA, and the $2Billion is testament to this.

[@paulcochran1721]

"The next movie will fix it!" -- That didn't work...

[@hossrex]

It's odd how often I must explain that a filmmaker doesn't get credit for ideas he didn't put in his movie.

[@PolarIre]

XD

[@Alistarwormwood]

You're not weird. I feel the same way. It reminds me of what JJ Abrams did to Star Trek. It's the same visuals and paint scheme, but underneath all of that it's a very dumb action movie. It doesn't have the soul of the original, and I think copying the plot from A New Hope made that even more painfully obvious.

[@DVSPress]

+Alistar Wormwood 2009 star trek actually had lots plot elements from a new hope as well.

[@blueg8731]

"It reminds me of what JJ Abrams did to Star Trek. " Finally someone who feels that way, too.

[@SeaOfTides]

One only has to have seen Lost to know how badly written a Star Trek or Star Wars film by that hack JJ Abrams is going to be.

[@spearfisherman308]

At least startrek was a reboot of the old series.

[@waltermh111]

This video is especially funny after TLJ. They spent so much time making up their excuses for the bad stuff in TFA, such as making up her past, making up that the answers will be in the next movie, etc... Then what happens? Rian throws out most of TFA and now the apologists are trying to make excuses why TFA still works in this new movie now that all the past theories are out of the door. Obviously these new age fans care only about shiny and are easily pleased by bad characters and plots.

[@Fif0l]

Oh, you just don't get the point. It's subversive, therefore it's good.

[@Ragitsu]

As someone said... If a movie is terrible or has undeniable flaws (especially in communication via it's presentation) , we apparently have to... -> Read a book. -> Look at a director/screen writer's comment (typically a weak argument) on Twitter. -> Watch a cockamamie explanation within a video on KZbin. ...and all will apparently make sense. This is no different than a patch for a broken PC game. What a crappy trend the entertainment industry is experiencing...

[@DVSPress]

+Ragitsu Well said. The idea that the audience who liked this movie would read a book... Well that's a little bit self-defeating, eh?

[@Ragitsu]

David Stewart People that gobbled this film up probably didn't question it too much, so it is a bit of a non-issue for them in any event.

[@JarJarAbrams]

These people are in denial. They want to like it, they want to think it's good. I'm sure a psychologist can tell us more about this phenomenon

[@Dularr]

+JarJar Abrams Psychologist would probably say they are normal. Really it is just a light entertainment movie going for blockbuster sales.

[@SilkyNoah]

+JarJar Abrams Tell us your thought process while making the film Jar Jar!

[@JarJarAbrams]

+Noah R First thing, no need of a script, just bring me spaceships, explosions and robots and we'll improvise something. It always works, trust me.

[@ScorpioNick]

+JarJar Abrams Confirmation bias.

[@TheHolyFox123]

No its because they wanted a new movie that highlights the old with simple lightsaber battles and a semblance of plot, which they got. Notice the angry people are probably those who marveled at the first one when they were young, and only perfection can top tht memory. Most are casual viewers, but the hardcore fans are left with a shell of a starwars movie in their eyes(not that i disagree).

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

MY favorite defenses: - Of course it's unoriginal, nothing is original anymore, everything is a remake. Get on with the times, it's 2015/16! - Stop overthinking it, it's just a movie! - It's Star Wars, it's supposed to be dumb! Just turn your brain off and enjoy!

[@clickycal]

+NotOrdinaryInGames Also -well they had no choice but to rehash Episode 4 because EVERYONE hates the prequels and they have to get rid of that bad taste

[@OrtegaSeason]

+Ridley the pirate That's really one of the most depressing things I've heard. We shouldn't try to be original because the prequels did that and everyone hated them. Jesus Christ.

[@DVSPress]

+Ridley the pirate I've heard that TFA is an "apology" for the prequels. That is like apologizing for cutting a man's bushes in a taste different from his own by chopping them all down. Or apologizing for insulting a man's wife by sleeping with her.

[@OrtegaSeason]

David Stewart Calling it an apology doesn't even make sense because George Lucas didn't have anything to do with it. You can't apologise for something you're not responsible for. That just sounds like people excusing Disney's/JJ's lack of creativity by blaming Lucas. The problems of the prequels are completely different from the problems of TFA. I don't understand the thought process, "The prequels had shitty dialogue and actor direction so lets rehash A New Hope this time". What? Where's the connection?

[@btulkas8199]

Holy Cow, watching this video post "the last jedi", damn near prophetic

[@BrettWPlank]

This movie felt the least like Star Wars. It felt cheap and catered to a shallow audience.

[@argowal]

All the apologists have been silenced after the last jedi

[@Slurms19]

It's hilarious that the argument these apologists use has all fallen apart with the release of TLJ

[@GLOB4LP4ND3M1C]

Guess what? YOU WERE RIGHT!!!

[@simval84]

Thank you for that video, it's really on point. I have also been gobsmacked by the amount of backlash any criticism of the movie faces from those who liked it. I note that they rarely if ever address the arguments, but frequently attack and slander anyone who makes even sensible criticism of it. There is some fanboy apologism, as you point out, but I've also noticed something else, some kind of extremely hostile and aggressive identity politics thing, especially around Rey. Anyone who doesn't recognize Rey as the BEST CHARACTAR EVAR gets automatically tagged as a sexist misogynist who hates Rey only because she's a "strong female character". To a lesser extent, criticism of Finn also gets tagged as racist. The climate around Star Wars VII is really toxic for criticism right now, a perfect storm of die-hard fanboyism and the worst of social media identity politics and mob mentality.

[@DVSPress]

You are spot on. That's the way PC politics goes right now. Have an objection to something? You'll be shouted down and called every name in the book in the grand trade of the means for the end.

[@DVSPress]

It's like arguing with a communist sometimes.

[@timhaas1]

+David Stewart The film was clearly over your head... awww.... _poor baby_.

[@timhaas1]

+David Stewart In truth, the "solutions" are present in Episodes IV-VII, but you are not paying close attention to Yoda and Obi-Wan. You are putting artificial limits on the Force and _The Force Awakens_, as though the earlier movies tell us everything there is to know about the Force. You don't know everything there is to know about some rock in your backyard, so why must the "earlier movies" tell us everything there is to know about the Force and why would you enter the theater to see Force Awakens thinking that you know everything there is to know about the Force? The Force Awakens does "stand on it's own," but it didn't "need to," as you suggest, that is just another artificial limitation you projected onto the film, probably the result of social programming. Also, there is a difference between a "plot hole" and subtext, unspoken dialogue, and metamessaging. Perhaps you would enjoy the movie more if you listened to Yoda, "You have to unlearn what you have learned." Moreover, the "inconsistencies" with "earlier movies" that you speak of are imaginary and more of a social construct than anything. For example, you make the assumption that it takes years to be able to use the Force, where do you get that? Plus, Luke trained _in the field_ for the most part. It may take years to become a Jedi, but it doesn't logically follow that it therefore takes years to use the Force, that's ridiculous. Yoda and Obi-Wan described several keys to Force use and never do they suggest that being able to use the Force makes you a Jedi. This appears to be one of the principle issues with those, like yourself, spouting hyperbole as though it's a good replacement for logic, you put forth a single premise and draw a conclusion. You display an intolerance for uncertainty that is common among Americans. You might bear in mind a central premise in cognitive psychology: Events do not have essential meaning and sometimes two interpretations of the facts fit just as well. However, it's always good not to ignore facts simply because they might challenge your interpretation of events. If you really want to make sense of the movie, you might consider Kylo Ren's clinical diagnosis or the pathological process he displays, that answers a lot of questions. If you don't like movies that are challenge to interpret, maybe the Chipmunks movie would be more your speed.

[@DVSPress]

+Skippy McGee Nary an argument to be seen, alas!

[@klarion]

oh, you're correct... JJ already destroyed the relative continuity and plot/moral exploration narrative of StarTrek and now he did the same to star wars, which I kept predicting before the movie came out. He is a Hollywood operative and I doubt he has major concerns about fan feedback as long as he makes money. Sadly, it's the same trend as we have seen in the music business and it will continue unless people stop wasting their money on hyped up eye candy....

[@MichaelVLang]

first scene of the movie...a big middle finger flying over a planet.

[@QuinSkew]

You're mixing up Space Balls with this movie

[@Misherman]

This aged very well

[@nx266]

He didn't rectify them in Lost either. JJ Abbrams is the biggest writer that just writes in events for the convenience at the moment in history.

[@brandonroque2226]

The irony is they wanted to copy and paste many of the features of A New Hope except making it a movie capable of standing on its own.

[@shannonk.6528]

Good video. The issue to me is the way J.J. Abrams writes/directs. He does not do character development in his movies and how he writes. Rey to me was the biggest issue to be able to use the force the way she did when it took Luke Skywalker, the greatest Jedi of all time, 3 movies to do. Since there is going to be a new writer/director in Episode 8, as you indicated, they may rectify the pot holes with the characters.

[@WiserInTime]

One of the most bizarre explanations that I've heard people say about The Force Awakens is that the movie was good because it was an apology for the prequels. So that's why they liked the movie. Disney had to say they were sorry (for something they weren't responsible for) and "prove themselves" to the fans...and the only way to do that was to start over and remake / reboot the series. WTF?!?! Since when do people go to the movies to see an apology? And what a bizarre sense of being owed an apology. If you see a movie that you didn't enjoy no one owes you shit. I love Star Wars (except for Ep 7 because it was lazy, pandering and nostalgia driven) but at the same time I acknowledge that many Star Wars fans are total dipshits.

[@DVSPress]

+Wiser InTime If you judge them by my comments sections Star Wars fans are also sophistic sociopaths.

[@Kingofgondor4619]

+Wiser InTime I agree with you this movie was a cheap rehash of Episode 4 and whats worse is that there are people who defend it and get angry, the other day at work some of my fellow staff were mad at me and said "only you don't like the movie" ! Yeah that;s right I don't like it because as a Star Wars fan I didn't want to see a cheap reboot with nostalgia, plot holes, coincidences, bad actors, cheap light saber duels a bad soundtrack and a terrible ending. topped off with a crazy feminist who is a Mary Sue. why can't people see these flaws? Wake up! As a Star Wars fan I wanted the story to continue especially with a new upgrade of space vehicles and technology. George Lucas wanted to tell a story but Jar Jar Abrams and Disney wanted to make a reboot for the fans garbage in, garbage out ! As Star Wars fans we deserve better than this !

[@WiserInTime]

Bobby Amunra I wish they used Lucas' original "story treatment" as he called it. Think of Ep 5 which seems to be the fan favorite of all the movies. The recipe for that movie was George Lucas writes the story. Lawrence Kasdan adapts it to a screenplay and then someone else directs it. That was the recipe for greatness. Ever since the 80's there was talk about a nine series saga. I guess there is still going to be 9 series saga but I gotta admit Ep 7 almost killed all my interest in seeing 8 and 9. Almost not totally. I'll probably see 8 in the theaters and if it's as lazy as 7 that's it. I'm done. I really wish we could have seen Lucas' full story...not this repackaged drivel.

[@Kingofgondor4619]

Wiser InTime right on I feel the same way, Lucas quit because of so many whiners who criticized him. He got criticism for the original trilogy because he made special effects changes to them, really? who cares he did that because he wanted the films with better graphics which he couldn't do at the time because the technology wasn't available. Then he got criticized for the prequels because there was too much dialogue, too much special effects everything was new, the romance scenes. Lucas put dialogue because he wanted to tell a story the movies are a space opera not space ships without dialogue there will be stupid plot holes like in Episode 7. No wonder he sold it to Disney and left, Well the stupid whiners got their wish Lucas out Jar Jar Abrams in = Star Wars Saga ruined ,R.I.P Star Wars 1977-2012 you are greatly missed

[@rhymfre4266]

I loved TFA but I'll agree that Disney is trying to pander to the manchildren and hipsters that obsess over the OT

[@TheDallasdeadeye]

could it be as simple as jj abrams has never seen a star wars movie.

[@thejollysloth5743]

+steveninthe That is an insult to Jar Jar

[@SomeGuy-em1pn]

+TheDallasdeadeye yeah, I got that impression too, but he must have seen at least one, since he shamelessly ripped it off, repackaged it with bigger explosions and tied it up with a big "fuck you" bow.

[@SomeGuy-em1pn]

Starboy Bruns! I'm sure I've sen a soundbyte from an interview where he outrightly stated that he didn't understand star wars, probably buried by Disney under threat of copyright litigation since I couldn't find it since. I think most people on this thread though would agree that whatever the reason, he did a worse than lousy job.

[@DVSPress]

+Some Guy JJ could be a big fan, but we wouldn't really know from the product. That's all I have to judge him on.

[@SomeGuy-em1pn]

David Stewart you're right, he could indeed, but there's not a stick of evidence to support it in ep 7 I totally agree with you there. based on his "resume" of productions he's been involved in, I'd say there's a good argument to be made he's not a fan of entertainment generally (I don't consider his style of directing "entertainment", more like color and movement you'd put on at the home for intellectually disabled people to keep them quiet). I looked hard and could not find ONE jj project that was worth bothering with, not a single ONE, they're all about the caliber of mission impossible six, so the question needs to be asked, who's genius idea was it to turn this obviously talentless schmuck loose on a franchise beloved by millions, and worth billions? I'd call a senate enquiry if I could.

[@bbbushhh]

Just wait till the next movies when they bang patches over all these idiotic plot holes and then the fanboys will be insufferable...."see, we told you she was a Jedi trained in utero"....

[@ScorpioNick]

+bbbushhh Patches are again something which should apply mostly to video games... will we see DLC for movies next? So sad..

[@studdedzombie]

+Cuddle Struggle I think they are referred to as Deleted Scenes

[@Skoall69]

Amen, keep preaching the truth. This movie is nothing but a classical example of bad story writing. A movie or a book should always be self-contained.

[@DVSPress]

+Timathie Foss Thanks for watching!

[@zoobee]

Loving your vids on this. I agree with every word. Rey basically trashes the whole mythology of Star Wars with her hyper-omnipotence and infallibility and expertise on everything. Its basically eating the whole essence of Star Wars. Rian Johnson is really going to have to do something special to pull it round after the lazy contrived writing of The Force Awakens

[@DVSPress]

+Jay Paul Well Johnson really has to pull something off, or the illusions of the fans may be shattered for good. It's going to be hard, and probably forced, so my expectations are not high. All the fan theories say its going to be a KOTOR reveal, which, though unoriginal, might actually make Rey a tad more believable.

[@zoobee]

yes, but even the idea of having reveals as a cliffhanger rather than illuminating her origins in one movie and then extending the story in the second rather than having to have to be teased like as if the mystery is what makes us love Star Wars is really patronising to us. They really sabotaged things. I actually think the 'anthology' movies like Rogue One are going to be superior to the main narrative, which is a travesty. Anyway, watching your other vid of Magic Systems in Fantasy Settings. You're really good on this stuff, very thought provoking and insightful

[@SPYFICTION]

+Jay Paul I read that they've gone and rewrote the script, and Ep.8 is going to be delayed by 7 months. I wonder if all the backlash caused them to do that. They were to start filming soon and now have start over square one.

[@jordanryan2497]

Welp.....he did not pull of something special.

[@fundhund62]

+Jordan ryan True, but at least it was better than The Force Awakens. Although I am the first to admit that´s not much of an accomplishment.

[@maxbootstrap7397]

You are absolutely correct. Not everything needs to be explicitly explained, but at least hints and foreshadowing are necessary. But the problems with SW7 go vastly further than the problems you mention in this video. For example, anyone who knows anything about story writing would know you almost *must* have at least one scene with all the old main characters (Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie... and R2D2 and C3PO too if possible). Also, given that the great love story of Star Wars was Han and Leia, what in the world is the point of making them a bitchy, long-divorced couple? Yes, if you (the writer) decide you must make their son turn into another evil scumbag, that certainly will have impact on their emotions and personality. But that still doesn't mean you need to purposely destroy this aspect of the original trilogy. That was not necessary, and thus was simply wanton, malicious destruction of a great work. But "destroying great works" is precisely what JarJarAbrams loves to do. Honestly, he needs intensive psychiatric help. And the way they kill off Han is beyond offensive. The swash-buckler just stands like some clueless dimwit and his son runs a light saber through him. Not even a fight, not even anything. Plus, as far as we can tell from the movie, even though Ben/Kylo turned to the dark side, there is *zero* indication that his parents did anything to harm him. In fact, the little hints we got were that they were loving parents. And so, even as someone who turned to the dark side, there was no personal incentive whatsoever for what happened. And given the kind of character that Han was, the manner of his death was light years beyond offensive. No writer with a shred of sense would write a scene like that. I won't list the endless "impossibly convenient" events (convenient for the writer)...like Rey running into Han and Chewie... or happening to end up at the building where the light saber was... or finding the light saber... or that the light saber just sitting around where anyone could find and steal it for 30 years wasn't already stolen... or a thousand others. Because you mentioned that problem already. A good film can get away with [at most] one huge coincidence, but *no more*. Maybe a couple very minor ones too, but not major ones. Beyond that, the story is "just infantile and stupid", which is what the SW7 story was (like something a mediocre, non-creative high-school student would write). I could literally write a 300 page book about the endless ways SW7 was *offensively horrible*. To anyone even slightly awake and thoughtful, forgiveness is impossible. Probably the most offensive fact of all is that JarJarAbrams *intentionally* disrespects then destroys the great works of others. Clearly he gets enormous thrills from doing this, which means he is one of the most rotten, despicable, diabolical predators of all time. Thanks for your reviews... clearly a great many people need to hear them.

[@DVSPress]

+max bootstrap Thanks so much for liking and commenting. Getting more perspectives is valuable. I have though that Kylo Ren was an attempt at a "complex" villain, but the filmmakers can only halfheartedly add anything, so he instead comes off as erratic and incompetent. I didn't consider what you point out - why on earth did he turn to the dark side? He had great parents, right? He's not Anakin, the child of a single mother and a *slave* who gets torn between his desires and the demands of office. Kylo had both parents, an upbringing without want, and access to extended family. We are never told the all important *why* for any character in the movie. What the new movie ends up doing, as you say, is destroying the resolution of the previous films. Han and Leia do such a bad job as parents that their son becomes a sith while Luke is such a terrible teacher that all his students go to the dark side. Then they all just give up. Instead of Han, Leia, and Luke being heroes, they are reduced to negligent parents and horrific teachers.

[@zoobee]

+max bootstrap *round of applause*

[@simplythebest2k]

+max bootstrap  I don't buy the whole divorce, or separation because the movie give us a back story that makes no sense to both the characters and reality. Had they left it open to interpretation it would have been a possible scenario. Unlike the Rey scenario this was the part that needed no explanations. spouses don't leave their spouse because their kid becomes a psychopath that switches political parties. Even in extreme cases the problem offspring has to be affecting them directly. This is not the case presented in the movie since he is galaxies away. Back to the point if the offspring was or is causing the problems, the offspring is the first to be removed, not the spouse. That is supposing the child is not underage, and it's parents have no choice, he does not fall under these scenario. Then we have the fact that Leia was not only a strong character, but a strong leader, and military tactician. The likely hood of her falling victim to a depression that would affect their marriage are abysmal. I can understand her leadership responsibilities getting in the way to off their marriage. Han being a free spirit would not be down with her obsessions, and life goals. We got our selves a believable split up, but the movie fails to fallow the characters traits.

[@jesserochon3103]

+John christopher In the real world, couples often divorce over far more frivolous things than what direction they should pursue in the up bringing of their children. The movie implies Leia wanted their son to train under Luke but Han was fearful he had too much Vader in him. I have no problem accepting this put a serious strain on their relationship.

[@cbecomis]

This guy is spot on. How do I know? Lol, by reading the comments on this thread.😁

[@Thin447Line]

This is funny to watch in retrospect after episode VIII (The Last Jedi) is out. It didn't fix the plot holes. It made them worse and created even more gaping plot holes. And the apologists are still saying, "The next movie will fix it and explain everything." Hilarious!

[@LiquidusSnake_3]

Thank for the videos. I've been listening to apologists for two months now. I gave up trying to explain issues with the film. There are so many.

[@BarsimonR]

Internal and External consistency...thank you...thank you so much. Finally someone who understands

[@unicornonthecob4302]

You're not the weird one, man. I've realized that people like Star Wars for very different reasons. Some like it because they see the beauty of the mythology and love the inventive and exciting aspects of the story...and some people _just_ like the inventive and exciting aspects of the story. That's my theory, at least. The people who love Star Wars more holistically, who really love the heart of the story, I believe, are the ones who are disappointed in TFA. Everyone else got just what they wanted- X-wings and TIE fighters and such shown in a visual way that is more or less up to par with modern standards. It's sad, really. The movie to me seems more like what I'll call Star Wars porn- it's just elements of SW that have excited people in the past all shoved together into a movie with almost no thought as to how all the elements should properly be tied together. As a lifelong Star Wars fan (silly as this may sound), I'm a bit heartbroken at how carelessly this movie was treated. I didn't have high expectations for it and was still more disappointed than I thought I possibly would be! I really enjoy your analysis of the movie and of its fans, and appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with us. Long live the EU!

[@timhaas1]

Arrogant, ignorant fuck.

[@unicornonthecob4302]

+Skippy McGee Wow, what an amazing display of intellect.

[@timhaas1]

Bob Dylan I've got nothing to prove to you, you don't know shit about me, and I don't require your approval. Moreover, my use of profanity is not predictive of jack squat and I would know because psychology is my field of expertise. Now, who the fuck do you think you are?!?

[@unicornonthecob4302]

Skippy McGee You're an amazing conversationalist.

[@timhaas1]

Bob Dylan Yes, I am an amazing conversationalist and you wouldn't know that... but that's fine by me! :0)

[@ScorpioNick]

I've had plenty of discussions with people who actually helped my upset a bit about this latest garbage, most specifically Rey doing master Jedi shit so soon after learning of the existence of the force. But even so... as a standalone piece, it was too fast, relies too much on the series (ironically, since it feels way off from what's been established), and in no way should I be told with a straight face that the next 2 will fix everything up. I'd like a movie with the name Star Wars to not need fixing up, I don't think that's too much to ask. I liked the prequels, never really knew they were disliked by most.

[@DVSPress]

+ScorpioNick Its the eternal conundrum. You do something different, people get upset that it isn't like the original. You do the same thing again, people get bored.

[@ScorpioNick]

+David Stewart Well yes, very true. But I feel there could have been a happy middle ground. Sure, have X-wings and Tie fighters in there (as those older models are still in service, let's say) but have some newer ones. Same thing with the capital ships. This way there's the familiarity, but also continuity, no? Even keep the same planet types, but throw in a water world, a world under perpetual storms etc etc. This way the film would feel fresh, but hopefully not alienate too many. You seem to have a much greater understanding of film-making than myself, so I'm just throwing ideas out there as a long time fan.

[@DVSPress]

ScorpioNick All of those are good ideas. I have no problem with aesthetic re-use. The prequels had a different aesthetic because they were set pre-empire. You get to see the aesthetic of the empire emerge of the course of the movies, and that was something I appreciated.

[@ScorpioNick]

+David Stewart I loved it. Seeing this "more civilised age" Obi-Wan referred to was amazing. I saw the originals as a kid, and remember wondering what kind of 'golden age' this old guy was talking about. He also spoke of Anakin/Vader not just as some evil twat, he spoke of him as someone who was brilliant but seduced by the dark side, he was sad about it. We got to see that also, and it was believable for me anyway. I still don't like this Ren guy worshiping Vader, saying he will "finish what you started". I don't believe Vader started anything really (I could be wrong), he was manipulated by Palpatine. Also he's sort of making a mockery of Vader's final redemption. Again, this is probably something which will be explained in the next two movies but... it's a shame the movie can't really stand up on its own. Honestly, Darth Maul was a more convincing villain than Ren - he could take on a Jedi Master AND his padawan at the same time. And there was true shock when Qui-Gon died, you could see Obi-Wan genuinely worried in the lead-up, and he got a proper funeral (as did Vader). Han Solo? Meh, not even a fight, and let him fall off a bridge. Leia and Chewy don't acknowledge it to each other afterwards. Sorry for the length of this. I could have gone on much longer.

[@rickvalentino6920]

+ScorpioNick It is interesting, because we have no idea what Kylo must think about Vader what it is that he is finishing that Vader started? Vader must be more like a giant myth to some people at this point like they think about Luke. Like Han makes that reference. But Kylo did do something Luke was meant to do. Kill his father.

[@christophermacintyre5890]

Another aspect of this is the"Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back Did It Too!" defense, which is closely related to the "Tear Down the Original Trilogy to Build Up the New Trilogy" defense. We saw this phenomenon with the prequels, and it is happening again with the sequels. For instance, we see Darth Vader's intact tie-fighter flying off into space at the end of Star Wars. The TFA apologists then say: "Oh, they left something unexplained! It's the same thing as The Force Awakens!"; or "Oh, we are left at the end of Empire not knowing what happens to Han or whether Vader is really Luke's father. It's left unanswered just like The Force Awakens!" They also claim that TFA is not flawed because Empire wasn't a stand alone movie either. This is specious reasoning, however. First of all, there is a difference between a cliff hanger and a muddled and confusing story. Empire was many things, but confusing was not one of them. What made it such an excellent sequel was that it set in motion all the main themes of the second installment IMMEDIATELY near the beginning of the film. During the Hoth sequence, we see Luke's growing Force powers when he pulls the light saber out of the snow. This is followed up logically when Luke goes to Dagobah to see Yoda and begin his Jedi training. We see the growing sexual tension between Han and Leia. This is followed up logically and consistently throughout the movie and we totally buy into them becoming lovers by the end of the film, which is why having Han frozen in carbonite is so powerful and effective. So it's a cliff hanger? So what? We see Vader's uncanny awareness of Luke's presence on Hoth. This is logically followed up during the Bespin sequence when the Luke-obsessed Vader sets a trap for him. Why all this interest by Vader? We find out finally in a shocking reveal at the end. The meaning of the trial of the cave on Dagobah suddenly becomes clear to us. It's an outstanding example of good storytelling. So it's a cliff hanger? So what? Empire totally entertains as a movie in it's own right, at the same time deepening the characters we already know and setting up the climax of the next installment. The difference between Empire is a lovingly home-cooked meal which leaves us satisfied but at the same time looking forward with pleasure to the next meal. TFA, by contrast, is like an energy drink you buy at 7-11, with the promise of a McDonald's Big Mac later. It's frankly insulting and reductive to equate Empire with TFA by insinuating that Empire was just a "cash grab", or worse, a clumsily written film that is totally dependent on the film that preceded it for its success. If TFA fans need to tear down Empire to justify this film, then I have to seriously wonder if they ever really loved the OT to begin with. At the very least, they have no understanding or appreciation for what made Empire such a great film.

[@DVSPress]

+Christopher MacIntyre Its an interesting NON-argument I hear, which is to criticize other things to somehow justify the flaws of TFA. Its a variant of "Tu Quo Que" (Literally "you as well") or answering criticism with criticism - trying to make something seem better by making other things seem worse.

[@christophermacintyre5890]

Don't start using Latin on them Dave, you'll only confuse them. Or they'll call you a "hipster". I really gotta love the "hipster" argument, which is really just a code word of anti-intellectualism. It's easier to put all the people who disagree with you into convenient little categories.The word "hipster" is usually employed when it's obvious the ant-TFA person they are arguing with can't be classified as a "troll" because they are to intelligent and dispassionate in their criticisms. So they use the word "hipster" to try and turn this intelligence and ability to reason into a bad thing. Never mind no one seems to have any idea what a hipster is exactly, aside from someone smarter then society deems they are "supposed to be". Every time I ask them what a "hipster" is, I get a different answer. I've been told that I'm just one of those people that goes along with what's popular, which is odd since right now the hip thing seems to be liking TFA. If I point this out then they'll claim that being "hip" actually means not liking what is currently popular, which is actually contrarianism - but why confuse them? I hate when people assume I like or don't like the prequels, or assume that I'm of the prequel generation and thus have a nostalgic attachment to them. Or they assume that I am of the OT generation - that I'm an old fuddy duddy purist viewing the old movies through rose tinted glasses. Because I'm critical of TFA, they just smugly assume my age and what I "must" be thinking. It's easier to put me in a box with a label. It's their way or calming their own inner doubts about the film. However, that's not true, is it? Because their have been a wide variety of reactions to this film from all ages and demographics. Some of the TFAs staunchest supporters are either OT gen people who have been roped in by the nostalgia, or PT gen people whose hatred of those movies has blinded them to the failings of TFA.

[@DVSPress]

Hipster is just another Ad-Hominem. It avoids any tangible point of argument or discussion by attacking the person. They might as well call me poopyhead.

[@DarthZeromus]

One of the many reasons why I left the Star Wars forums due to apologism.

[@thothheartmaat2833]

star wars 7 is intolerable.. we need to apologize to george lucas for giving him shit for the prequels and beg him to redo 7 and the next movies.. 7 needs to be annulled.. we cannot allow this to exist and we cannot sit around and watch them do more...

[@Kingofgondor4619]

+Matthiu Ryin that's exactly the same way I feel good statement

[@patricknoone171]

How are those plot holes looking now? Ha ha. Now they are black holes

[@grognak2589]

Well said David Stewart. I've been having the hardest time trying to explain why I found this movie nonsensical and completely contradictory to all 6 previous Star Wars movies but you hit every point on the nose.

[@DVSPress]

+Ben Isaacson Thanks so much for watching!

[@simplythebest2k]

The problem is that not only fans are apologist, but the critics are apologistic to the movie as well. This give the general public a back bone, which is further strengthen with Majority is right effect. But it goes even further in the hypocrisy avenue when both critics, and fans throw out all the rules that they had for say the prequels and many other movies. They enforce that their opinion is correct, but it applies to say episode 1 but not episode 7 to star trek, but not episode 7, to Prometheus, but not episode 7.

[@DVSPress]

+John christopher Consistency is often the first victim of desire. In this case, it is desire for the movie to be good.

[@KimberlyStarr21]

Nearly two years later and the truth came out already. Lucas Films has already admitted that TFA was purely done in a way that it brought back nostalgia from the OG films. JJ Abrams has admitted mistakes were made in the film he regrets. So I mean basically JJ Abrams gave us what Disney wanted him to give us. TFA is not suppose to be about a great plot or great new characters. It is nostalgia with an introduction to some new characters which will be developed in TLJ. Shitty situation, but true. TFA was never meant to be something special, it was purely made to reel us all in and for the cash grab.

[@GuntPulp]

You NAILED it.

[@TreeRockCreations]

Yeah, the same thing happened with Star Trek 2009, which shit on the original series. They're just Fanboys protecting their false Gods.

[@DVSPress]

+Tree Rock Creations kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKevhGuvgslmZ7M :)

[@johnwatsoniv384]

TLJ certainly vindicated you here. I was definitely guilty of trying to justify Rey myself, but because I knew that otherwise all the things she was doing made absolutely no sense and shat on the rules of the force rather than any desire to make TFA seem better than it is.

[@CodeNameDoug]

I remember being in exactly the same position when Phantom Menace came out. I also made a lot of apologetic arguments in its defense and making some down right inferno-like flame wars to try and burn down its critics. I was so in I actually tried to defend Jar Jar as a novel and unique take on tropes and comedy. I was in deep man. When you think Jar Jar is genius, its time to seek professional help. Time has pretty much cured me of this. I still don’t think its as bad as many people says it is - but I defiantly see their point. So when I saw TFA, it was like one giant slap in the face. JJ Abrams is where franchises go to die.

[@DVSPress]

+Doug Kulp "JJ Abrams is where franchises go to die." Quote of the day.

[@grandwizardnoticer8975]

I think SW apologists are in overdrive now because of cognitive dissonance. They can't accept how bad TLJ is. Weird that this is more applicable to TLJ now.

[@Kissamiess]

This is how I feel exactly. The sequel may explain all the plot holes and it won't matter. The movie needs to stand on its own. I also love fan theories and I love making fan theories. Unfortunately those don't make TFA a good movie either.

[@danielblair4413]

+Kissamies Why does part of a trilogy need to stand on its own? All three movies are part of the same story, which means plot holes in one movie can be filled by the movies that follow because they continue the story.

[@Kissamiess]

It may be a part of the trilogy, but it is not an episode of a TV series. It needs to be a decent story on its own right.

[@DVSPress]

+Kissamies Each previous star wars movie had a complete coherent story on its own. The '77 Star Wars reel also never read "Episode 4" because they never really expected to make more movies. The success of star wars was a surprise.

[@TheEgyptianGamerGeek]

Kissamies Yes it will its the start of a trilogy

[@96MonksTom]

I remember your videos being very ahead of the curve amid all the excitement with TFA in 2015. Now that TROS is out and many more people have come to realise the flaws you spotted early on, defenders of the trilogy are increasingly resorting to these apologist views as a last-ditch attempt to pretend they live up to Star Wars' mythological and storytelling standards.

[@jerbear1601]

simval84 you are quite right. They made this movie to be very hard to criticize without appearing misogynist or racist or old fanbase vs new fanbase. The other thing is that the reviewers are clearly afraid to tell their true feelings for fear of reprisals in the business.

[@Yamagashi]

Very straightforward, simple yet thorough analysis of the problems with this film's garbage narrative.

[@DVSPress]

+Yamagashi Thank you!

[@punpai4003]

No David, you're not the weird one, you are completely right in your assesssment of the movie. Your arguments are well founded and make sense. Thank you for posting these.

[@DVSPress]

+LaLiLuLeLo Thanks for watching!

[@opporancisis5237]

I also found it funny how people invent new plots to fix old ones. I'm an expanded universe fan and I do it myself all the time. To practice my writing I mainly do fanfic, and most of my fics are either fix fics where they invent plots to solve plot holes, or they have a lot of interior information to smooth over and connect plot holes on the side while telling a story. That being said, even I would have a very hard time making TFA make sense.

[@thelynyrdwinder]

this is so great i thought i was the only one noticing this phenomenon

[@thelynyrdwinder]

also liked the "were a star wars fan" comment,this movie did leave such a bad taste for me it did almost ruin star wars for me, i have lost all hope in any more decent star wars films

[@johng5873]

I enjoyed your discussion over the external and internal structure of the movie. I noticed, not only do people outside the movie fill in the gaps, but the story itself gets lazy and does it. There's an untold story about how Han loses the Falcon, an untold story of Ren falling to the darkside, an untold story about Anikin's lightsaber ending up in the Cantina scene, one that is even mentioned as a "Story for another time", and C3-P0 even has an untold story about his red arm that he mentions in passing. I felt like the writer had a lot of inconsistencies and put, in the script, something along the lines of: This is a story for a better writer to fill in later.

[@SlyMagma]

+John G This is the first movie of a connected trilogy. Are you people really wanted everything to be revealed to you in one movie, with no questionable mystery, else its a bad "story"? What is with the add culture of today wanting everything spooned to them

[@rebeljedaii2571]

+PissedFechtmeister actually they canceled and killed the books to pillage them. It was Jacen's his girlfriend Tenel Ka who had an unstable lightsaber and it blew up during a sparring match with him and he accidentally cut off her arm. :P Rei meanwhile, seems to be a Jaina Solo want to be. Perhaps the actress could have been a good Jaina. However Jaina had a depth and earned her skill and power. And many of us predicted from the start that while killing Chewie in the books (with Lucas authorization) got the author death threats that they'd kill Han and the Disney apologists (nice term) would cheer right after saying they were glad it was thrown out for killing Chewie. Talk about a double standard!

[@johng5873]

+SlyMagma No, it's the 7th movie, and a third trilogy within a SW universe. It's lazy writing. If the prequels were overloaded with world building, then Episode 7 goes in the opposite direction, by giving us a narrowed focused view of a rehashed/plagiarized story and leaves us filling in the blanks. Everything is a backstory for something else. Novels, comics, video games provide non-canonical incite into what happens, but within the contained story, it just leaves a lot of questions. It's lazy to pass on all these plot holes to future writers by making them their problem. JJ Abrams loves to do this, to make people want to keep watching, like his show, Lost, to keep them hooked, but SW isn't going to do flash backs and flash forwards to fill in the blanks later on, and he's not sticking around to do the other movies. You need to take off the nostalgia goggles, listen to the video above, and think about what he's saying. The only one eating up this crappy movie by the spoonful is you.

[@SlyMagma]

John G It's the first movie within the trilogy of these new characters and the mystery that surrounds them. The prequels were shit and the original trilogy was loaded with mystery and reveals in later movies. The point is that we fill in the blanks for now. We don't need to know who Rey's parents are now. OR what Finn's history was before he was captured. That is a product of todays ADD culture who wants everything spoonfed to them at once. No purpose of mystery or theory. Just give me everything. In regards to the universe as a whole, the novels and comics can provide more detail to the universe. But in regards to the main characters, everything should not be showcased first hand in the very first movie of a trilogy epic.

[@johng5873]

+SlyMagma They don't need to tell me who Rey's parents are now. I never even mentioned her parents as an example. Why would you even bring that up? Do you even understand what this is about? It's other plot holes and inconsistencies in the movie. They also didn't need to have Kylo take his mask off to see a weasel nosed whiny brat. That they do give us. There's just too many plot holes in this movie. You'd think for the amount of money they paid the writers, they could bring us steak and not MacDonald's.

[@ghostlightx9005]

Phantom Menace was gushed over on initial release.

[@youngkingdom8131]

This holds up!

[@Aazholh]

I've been watching your vids against TFA and pretty much agree with what you say. I agree with most of the negative reviewers. I'm starting a facebook group called "Star Wars Exists As The Original Trilogy. That's It." I would like like minded individuals to get together to discuss this debacle. BTW, I also used to play guitar too a long time ago.

[@DVSPress]

+Aazholh Well if you want to get back into it I have a ton of content in that direction.

[@Aazholh]

I would like to. I still have an acoustic, but the electric was sold a few years ago. Also, arthritis flares up a couple times a year :\

[@kitfisto4574]

when I heard he was dircecting starwars I didn't have a clue who he was and I had hope but it turns out JJ can't write

[@Slugmind]

Added this video to favorites. The analytical discussion is strong with this one.

[@DVSPress]

+Slugmind Thanks so much!

[@BunnyHatJ]

Thanks for maiking this video and for mentioning inner consistency! I thought I was the only guy thinking about that as something that really went wrong in this movie (and it honestly absolutely ruined it for me :P). It's very hard to enjoy this movie if you already have a grasp of how the Star Wars universe works.

[@DVSPress]

+Bunny Hat (太公望) Thanks for watching! I appreciate the affirmation as well.

[@Duragizer8775]

What I find truly amusing is that many of the ST apologists who make these type of arguments decry the use of them when it's PT apologists using them. Now I have no love for the prequels - I believe they are objectively bad films which have delivered severe, long-lasting damage to the franchise as a whole - but I can still easily recognize the hypocrisy/double-standardizing they're engaging in.

[@Charzhino]

Brilliant analysis dude! Very articulate in explaining the external and internal mechanisms that cause the plot of TFA to crumble. I really liked your reasoned rational review of Star Wars and went through your recent videos but can't find any other film reviews...would love your thoughts on more movies!

[@DVSPress]

+Charzhino Thanks so much for watching! I actually don't usually do film reviews, but TFA inspired me to do some talking from my perspective as a writer. People have been asking for more, though so I'll probably do more. It's just a question of what movies to do. I've had requests for a few, if you would like to add to them.

[@Gustavo_VC]

Just with the title you got my vote. Apologists are the worst for the SW universe.

[@DVSPress]

+Gustavo Velarde Correa I think it is rooted in some psychic connection to the media they consume - Part of their identity is star wars, and so they must defend that, as though me not liking something is an insult to their character via insulting the media they like.

[@mayflyer942]

+David Stewart LMAO... lol It's the other way arround... all these "force awakens sucks" videos are from fans that have a lot invested in SW (there's not one of them unfamiliar with the EU, including you) and are resentful of Lucas not being involved, the world realising your beloved prequels are awful, Han dying, Luke having a minimal role, and probably even Disney killing Bambi's mother... who knows... you tell me. Those of us that were never fanboys, nor ever spent a simgle penny in any SW merchandising (Lucas never saw a penny from me, not even from the movies), don't bother making video rants (around a dozen of them in your case). I actually find you guys and this "force awakens" KZbin fenomenon far more entertaining than any SW movie; as it's laughable hearing a guy that did not get that the visit to Maz was about taking BB-8 to the resistance, even when half of the movie was about it, talking about "plot holes" (which has nothing to do with whether you understood, believed or liked the plot).

[@Gustavo_VC]

+David Stewart Agreed. Maybe if they defend this movie they won't feel that bad for spending money on viewing it. I've seen many apologists in different media, so it is not a surprise to me to see how low the can go to defend their pov.

[@mayflyer942]

+Gustavo Velarde Correa LMAO... Definitely! That must be the reason why critics and public in their vast mayority disagree with such film experts as yourselves. :D

[@Gustavo_VC]

+May Flyer You said it. They are not experts.

[@everettelderberry5362]

Dude you are right on. I loved the prequels and original trilogy, of course. The fight between Maul and the two Jedi is one of my favorite moments out of all six films. I always cry when Vader kills the Emperor. I mean Vader is wearing a still mask and you can SEE him struggling watching Luke suffer. Oh man... the Force Awakens sucked so bad. I used to have an entire room in my home dedicated to my Star Wars toys and memorabilia... in 2015 I was like I have to grow up. I gave the whole room to a neighborhood kid. He about had a heart attack. And I completely stopped watching films. And TV and completely disconnected myself from America's God awful culture. Haven't seen a film for 4 years... except The Force Awakens and I completely agree with you. I feel like I stood by Star Wars, my old friend, while people hated the prequels and after seeing Awakens. My friend is officially dead. I'm watching this contemplating seeing the Last Jedi. I don't think I will. If EVERYONE stops paying Hollywood they'd maybe look in the mirror and make something good. P.S. I do occasionally watch films made before the Year 2000, though. And I only watch real people on KZbin. Loved your videos and excited to watch your video on Sophistry in my suggestions! Lol America is so fucked up. Subbed!

[@kazumel89]

Damn dude, blew my mind said everything I was feeling into concrete words. Cheers.

[@DVSPress]

+kazumel Thanks for watching. Glad I could affirm.

[@Deuteromis]

Spot on..even though I hate the film, I still try to think of ways to make the film better. The one I think about and would love to be true, is if Rey is actually Anakin Skywalker reincarnated.

[@rgerber]

Abrams Mysterxboy is the movie Schrodingers Cat (also a weak excuse of NOT telling a story and manipulating the viewer. I loved LOST. But it does not work for ever, especially Steer Ways. Fears A Brattening)

[@Cueil]

Easy way to explain Rey... she's a Phenom... her ability to adapt and learn are unfair... usually they keep these type of rolls to bad guys because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely... 10 bucks say they rip off KotOR and she's the one who destroyed the new Jedi order and was mind wiped by Luke because he couldn't kill her

At last someone mentions the possibility of a KOTOR climatic twist to be ripped-off in a future E9. Or otherwise Rey is sister/cousin of Ben ala book novels. I would hate either of the two to be implemented in future Star Wars films because, first, it was already done and they were great stuff in their medium, and last, for an E9 it would be disturbingly unoriginal.

[@DrsJacksonn]

Lol fanboys will always go a long way to defend their plotholes.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

just like there were actually people who DEFENDED the ME3 ending.....that's just how bad some fanboys can be.

[@blakchristianbale]

Matt Allen Indoctrination Theory posits that fanboys will indoctrinate themselves into believing a bad entry into their favourite franchise is actually brilliant in spite of any and all evidence to the contrary.

[@SireofSuns]

Still relevant. Perhaps more so now.

[@1cerebrum]

100% agree, great and insightful comments. Love your videos.

[@greybeard6504]

The only way someone could defend TLJ is to say it was all a dream sequence.

[@Rantsnrambles808]

As an anime fan were sometimes characters get bs powerups...it is no longer an explanation if you defend it in the next chapter..it is just saving face. What I mean is if Rey were Luke's daughter that has tons of training. We would need more confirmation. Being force sensitive isn't an excuse for her abilities. Now that this chapter has ended I think any explanation offered now will just be trying to right some wrongs.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Give the old Lucasarts some credit-whenever they had a plot hole in the six classic films, they crank out some novel or comic to plug it up. They don't tell people to wait for the next film. They actually get to work noticing that the ship has holes and start plugging it before it sinks.

[@stevenpastore_art]

Hey David, you're a smart well composed guy. My mom loves Star Wars, heard you briefly and she commented "he sounds well spoken". There's a fresh breath of thought and manner throughout your videos.

[@DVSPress]

+Steven Pastore Thanks so much for the positive feedback!

[@allenfogarty2384]

Lack of revealing your plot is not a plot. Jar Jar Abrams only knows Lost and Lens Flares.

[@MrBobotheconqueror]

+Allen Fogarty This idiot KyroRG actually said this to me the other day "Plot holes are for sequels dumbass you don't know how movies work #Fact "

[@YChromosome99]

Mind wiped?? If Rey was dumped on Jakku as a BABY then that's total bullshit.

[@tskwared667]

+Y Chromosome She wasn't? We see in the movie that she was left there when she was at least 6 or 7

[@dupplinmuir113]

+tskwared667 This raises another issue: those who want to use a mind-wipe to explain her force abilities are basically saying that she was a fully-trained Jedi at the age of (as you say) 6 or 7, since she clearly received no further training between that age and the age she is in the film. Secondly, it seems a rather convenient form of mind-wipe that deletes her memories yet somehow doesn't remove her ability to use the force.

[@YChromosome99]

tskwared667​ That "mind wipe" theory still doesn't hold up. 6 or 7 years old is still too young to match Kylo Ren's skills. That's like saying she would've whipped his ass as a 7 year old. Senseless.

[@tskwared667]

+Y Chromosome she didn't match his skills, she barely held her own to save herself, and he wasn't at his full potential

[@Hunpecked]

+Dupplin Muir "...are basically saying that she was a fully-trained Jedi at the age of (as you say) 6 or 7..." That memory of being abandoned as a child could have been implanted with all the rest. False childhood memory was also used as a plot device in "Blade Runner." "Secondly, it seems a rather convenient form of mind-wipe that deletes her memories yet somehow doesn't remove her ability to use the force." Maybe using the Force (and, fixing stuff, and flying a ship) is like riding a bicycle. :-) Note, moreover, that most of her Force abilities started showing up only after she touched the light saber. Coincidence? I remember the amnesiac secret agents in the two "Total Recall" films didn't lose any of their skills, so it's not an unprecedented plot device. That said, the mind wipe excuse is just a lame attempt to "fix" a poorly written script. It reminds me of the "Indoctrination Theory" excuse for the "Mass Effect 3" game. (yecch!)

[@lucjannastalek9978]

Revan spent a lot of time on Dantooine training to the point when he was adequate - which obviously took him less due to his past - and still is assisted by Bastila, a well established Jedi...

[@jntdhome]

Well argued, David! Much the same can be said for the Nolan and Snyder apologists. "Dark Knight Rises" was abysmal, yet they swear up and down it was one of the greatest Batman movies ever. "Man Of Steel" missed the mark and was WAY over the top with the destruction, not to mention several glaring plot holes...yet their argument is that we all liked Donner's too much. When the plot synopsis for Batman V Superman was released, I knew they would go back and try to make the mayhem throughout MOS have some plot significance, other than the fact that they went total Michael Bay with it. Besides, you know how our culture is these days. You are not allowed to simply "agree to disagree" any longer. You are WRONG and, to ensure that you are aware of this, I will verbally eviscerate you with every ounce of venom I have. That's the general mentality anyhow. Great vids, though! I agree with you across the board on this (as well as your TFA review)!

[@DVSPress]

+John D Thanks for watching! I skipped the last superman movie. Kind of glad I did, now. Maybe I'll watch it on video and do an analysis. And yes, the Dark Knight Rises was very overrated.

[@1977danhof]

You are so correct and noone does this for the prequels thats what bugs me. Why does JJ get a free pass on ruining things. Apparently we are all dummies that will be happy with anything labeled star wars/trek we dont need good stories to go along with the franchise names. A film should stand on its own as well as introduce new ideas etc.

[@DVSPress]

+1977danhof Believe something hard enough and it will alter your perception of reality.

[@gabrielmontreuil]

I love your Whale Hunting Example on how to break the Story in the Universe Rules...I always give the same example which is. Imagine if Characters from the Walking Dead would Start Flying like Superman... It wouldn't make Sense! even if the story is about dead being bring back to life! lol I seriously hate how this show have become though... -_- Also did you have the same vibe when you watched Terminator Genisys? Its like if Hollywood doesn't give a shit about Good Story these days... They always take something Iconic and Ruined it by Following the Main Stream Media....

[@DVSPress]

+gabriel montreuil I skipped Terminator. I might watch it on video, but some reviewers I trust said it was nonsense, and I believed them. Not going to reward mediocrity with a cinema ticket. A redbox? Yeah, I loved the originals, so why not?

[@90lancaster]

If Rey was "A wound in the Force" not only does it make her idiotically catastrophically dangerous for a reason - it also makes her decent to madness and evil all the more compelling. Not that Disney has the guts to pull a switch on us and make Rey's toxic influence the reason Kylo Killed his dad and was so compelled to follow her. and yet couldn't quite kill her. thus making the story about Kylo's quest for understanding what the heck has happened to him under both Snoak and evil Rey's influence. Luke sees her and reacts with horror at what she is and we are like - But it's just Rey people just like her cause she'd friendly - not because she has a innate force ability that bonds her to others in a rather potentially toxic way. As that would be - you know compelling and interesting story telling and one can't have a Disney Movie have that - it's against the tradition of being unrelentingly 'bland' or something. Only Disney could have a Movie where George Clooney is in love with a 9 year old and the reaction is "Meh". Anyone else there would have been some reaction.

[@bloodravenzx4438]

Yeah, I have been guilty of mystery box thinking. Thank you of reminding me of this issue. Though I was never a fan of star wars but I do enjoy your reviews.

[@Tareltonlives]

Apologism is a perfect word for these people. They are just as hypocritical, self-righteous, and ignorant as other apologists. Me? I'm a heretic-I'm a Lucasite.

[@face1339]

Well...the majority of people like the film. I think the folks hating it are nitpicking and hopping on the hate bandwagon.

[@Tareltonlives]

And I think the people who like this film are shallow old simpletons. To each their own

[@face1339]

+Tareltonlives The film is fine...you're one of those "it's cool to hate things". I get it. Lemme guess...you love the prequels?😂

[@Tareltonlives]

Yep. That's why I hate it.

[@Tareltonlives]

Lemme guess, you hate the prequels because it's cool to hate things. I get it. Hypocrite

[@michaeljensen6805]

Hey dude. Nice video and your sentiments match my own. The force awakens is such a badly written movie. As you said, there are plot holes the size of a moon and the characters are also incredible badly written. I was so disappointed when I watched it in the cinema and I even went twice just to be sure that it wasn't my brain that was fucking with me. It has really put a damper on my expectations for the new movies.

[@177SCmaro]

I always called it "retconing midstream".

[@usselpasoable]

David, since you like to write I'll give you another tidbit from my old comedic brain ( I did stand up for several years in the late 80's and early 90s in' Minneapolis and was offered a job by Fox to be a writer, I said no) Here's my take on Kylo Ren putting his mask and costume on for the first time. "Hey guys look, I'm Darth Vader!" " listen kid we all appreciate your evil intentions, we're all on the same side here, but where did you get that outfit, and that mask, did that come from a bantha polo player?, ..and the whole breathing sound thing, it's way too much kid." "Well, I'm the same age that Dart Vader was when he turned to the dark side." " Let me tell you something, I served with Darth Vader , Darth Vader was a friend of mine, you're no Darth Vader." ( I hope you got the political reference there.) I appreciate the thought you put into your analysis of why this movie is so bad. I just had another neuron fire right before I clicked post. Jerry Seinfeld and George are pitching the Force awakens script to Disney studios. EXECUTIVE: What is this movie about? GEORGE: I think I can sum up this movie in one word..nothing! EXEC: What does that mean? Jerry: Well of course they'll be explosions and droids and stuff. GEORGE: No, nothing happens! EXEC: Then why are people watching? GEORGE: Because it's Star Wars

[@DVSPress]

+dave atchison Love it.

[@moundofsound4768]

Absolutely bang on. Same applies to the recent Alien film attempts: if you need a theory/deleted scenes/leaked draft scripts/follow-up excerpts to in anyway vindicate gaping plot holes, poor character decisions, flawed logic and or science (to whatever degree that universe bases itself), then you've made a bad film. I love sci-fi too and of course will entertain far-reaching ideas but there is a limit, not in the scope and out of the box, but in the grounding of perception and execution. We all wanna be a kid again and watch it for the first time but ffs, grow up and be objective, the film makers should know better so it really doesn't swallow whole and help to defend what is essentially, bad film-making. With all the backing, highly developed and expanded universe, art teams, technology and writers who truly know there stuff, they have no real excuses in this day and age for not making much short of a masterpiece.

[@woooweee]

The movie will be revealed to be good by the sequels. I heard that after matrix reloaded and the phantom menace. Plot holes are a minor issue, I'm sure back to the future has plenty, but they were excellent movies because they had grounding within the reality of the fictional world, and the heroes journey was told in a compelling way. The heroes journey is short changed. I'm sure most of you watched the redlettermedia reviews where they touch on the triumph through adversity aspect, and within the star wars story Luke follows this formula well, he doesn't immediately become over powered, he faces humiliation and failure, he loses and loses his hand, and even in the climatic battle, he doesn't kill either vader or the emperor, its like people forget this when comparing this new female over powered "magic woman" to luke. As for excusing this failure to have a female character earn her triumph through adversity by citing the prequels, well, the failure there is also the reason why they were bad. JJ Abrams, he makes a good shallow summer roller coaster, but how much does anyone really remember of these new star trek movies? They were fun, but they were substance free, they won't be remembered. His tv shows, lost? Alias? They were not redeemed, they were disappointments in the end. Alien and its sequel are prime examples of how to do a female protagonist well. As Aurini explains(stopped clock is right twice a day) /watch?v=F5L2MBPBl3I /watch?v=etZRsZP64Xg Even in the hunger games, the female lead is more grounded in their world than in these new star wars films. Katniss doesn't do the current "girl power"thing and go around punching out guys, she uses a bow, a skill earned from hunting food to escape hunger.

[@simplythebest2k]

+wooo weee actually the matrix didn't have a plot hole, it just doesn't tell you the hidden plot directly, But if you pay attention the KFC guy tells you what the matrix is, was and ever will be. It is save to assume that in the whole movie no one ever leaves the matrix, and the matrix has sub purpose. Humans are not batteries, the matrix story is simply the drama they need to keep from not accepting the matrix.

[@jacktindall1765]

Star Wars Ep 7.. An Old Hope.... is shit

[@summerswinterer9247]

1:00 All the plot holes weren't filled in but were abandoned. How ironic.

[@Avarn388]

And you sir just earned a subscription from me. This is my biggest gripe with TFA: this mystery box storytelling. For shows, like Lost, it works given it was a weekly series it could get away with that story. But for something like Star Wars that doesn't work. Why should we be burdened by this aspect? Say what you will about the Prequels, but they even knew how to be standalone films. The Original trilogy can be enjoyed as films independently. Yes, it helped to see the movies in sequence, but the intent was just telling a good, consistent story with characters. And while I may enjoy Episode Eight a lot more(I don't hate TFA, but I argue it is the weakest of the Star Wars movies with TPM), that won't change TFA. Even after reading Bloodline to which made that movie better, I shouldn't even as a diehard fan have to be a slave to exterior material to make a movie better. That said, I'm looking forward to episode eight as one of my favorite directors Rian Johnson is doing it. Check out Looper. It's an excellent movie and showcases how someone like Johnson is amazing talent for fleshing out characters and telling a good story. Mind you, this should have been Abrams intent and we should have gotten some world building and characterization. But that again, will NOT change the fact that TFA was subpar at best.

[@DVSPress]

I actually quite liked Looper. Personally, I'm not very excited about the future of Star Wars, but that's okay, because the old stuff is still awesome, and the new stuff may still be somebody else's bag. I'm on the lookout for new things.

[@Avarn388]

Carlos Saraiva I agree. Rian Johnson is such a better director than Abrams. Really, the only two Abrams movies I enjoy are Super Eight and Star Trek. Though, for Trek I'm a super casual fan and I love the aesthetic of Super Eight. But Abrams I feel is Spielberg light. He directed a 200 Million dollar fan film that yearned to capture the glory days of the OT, yet failed. And yet, most bandwagoners and PT haters ate it up. That said, I hope that Johnson's movie will open the eyes to a lot of these people and see why TFA sucked. As for Colin Trevorrow; I wouldn't be so hard on him. JW was meh, until the end but I blame the studio more than Trevorrow. It's why he jumped ship to LucasFilm. So who knows? It could be an incredible film.

[@Avarn388]

David Stewart That's fine. I don't blame you. Abrams sucks as a director and combined with PT haters and OT purists, TFA was essentially a film for those haters who didn't like the PT. I do hope that people will realize it much like they did with TPM. But new things is great. For example, have you ever checked out the Brandon Sanderson MistBorn trilogy? It's excellent and definitely deserves an adaptation of some kind.

[@Avarn388]

Carlos Saraiva I'll take your word on, Trek as I'm a casual fan. Super Eight I agree felt like two scripts mashed into one. My biggest problem with Abrams is that the movies he tends to direct are so focused on action and moving along, that they barely have time to breathe. Super Eight, I felt was the one movie where he actually had decent pacing. This being the subject matter. TFA felt like a roller coaster from start to finish in a bad sense. Scenes just happened, carrying exposition and some quick paced dialogue with a fight scene. And while directors like Joss Whedon(I like his work, but he used dialogue too much as a crutch), Abrams cannot. Where was the world building in TFA? This is unacceptable. For LucasFilm to devote so much into canon and yet not illustrate it is a major blunder on their part. All we needed was some kind of news program or someone to convey what the heck the Galaxy is going through since 30 yrs. And combined with aping ANH, Abrams didn't do himself a favor. TFA is a one hit wonder and he better enjoy it. Because, long term, this movie will hurt him badly.

[@Avarn388]

Carlos Saraiva Agreed one hundred percent on Abrams. I do agree that nostalgia is being abused nowadays with our culture. Independence day being a big problem, but then again that movie is a guilty pleasure :) My issue with TFA was how petrified LucasFilm was. I'm not blind. The prequels sucked. Why? Bad execution of characterization, plot, dialogue. It's why the novelizations are better. How LucasFilm could have approached the sequel trilogy as the following. Have it take place 30 years, but showcase the Jedi order in full. Specifically, Luke's Jedi order. Remember, ROTJ showcased Luke embraced the idea of the Jedi order and attempted to reconstruct it. But rather, than destroy it, showcase it in full. But I know some will complain we've seen this before via the PT. And that's a valid point. How do you correct it? Use it as commentary. Maybe, the Jedi order is coming under fire from the New Republic due to it separating itself. This being that the temple isn't on Coruscant. The Order has been partaking a lot of missions due to the NR(New Republic's) needing to get things in order. And they want the Jedi under their control. Have Luke refuse, NOT wanting to repeat the same mistakes as the PT era Jedi. There, politics that make sense. Combined with the First Order being remnants of the Empire and Rey as our POV character(A force sensitive discovered on a planet with no memories), you got the workings of an excellent trilogy. And I highly doubt many would complain. The OT era characters are there, but having embraced their positions. Leia a politician. Han is on and off smuggling, and Luke is running the Jedi temple. The new characters could be naturally introduced as well. Maybe, Finn you run with the idea he's a First Order trooper and has defected. There's mistrust between Rey and Finn, but they grow to trust one another. Poe Dameron could have been a New Republic Fighter pilot. Sorry, if this post is too long, but these were my ideas.

[@ministryofwrongthink6962]

This was prophetic of TLJ! Lol All the only fan theory that was confirmed was that Ray *IS* a Marry Sue!! 🤣🤣

[@heavyangel82]

Thank you so much for making this video, Since I was so attacked for having a opinion, Seriously I never seen so much excuses and Swallowing of stupidity for movie in my life. I get that Fans really want this movie to be great! I get that, I really wanted that too, but I cant lie to myself to fit in with the herd of sheep, while I know they all are smiling and convincing themselves and others that they're really not going to the slaughterhouse haha Likely some people were logical and could have a discussion about it, But 90% of them was not So in conclusion as a movie by itself it has completing utterly shit on the Star Wars universe that's just my opinion thank you for being more eloquent and logical :)

[@DVSPress]

+Heavy Nerd You see my comment section on my full review video. I've had some people message me with what others might construe as death threats, just because I didn't like one of the star wars movies. I'm going to print out the comments and make a shutterfly book of them, just to remind me that the word "fan" is short for "fanatic."

[@heavyangel82]

Wow that's messed up and no i havet yet :).yes you are so right, fanatic haha good one, hopefully in a few years people will wake up a bit more and not just blindly attack cuz they can't admit the deeper issues that they have, from a certain point of view

[@BungieStudios]

The Prequels made this mistake. Halo 4 and Halo 5 made this mistake. Terminator Genisys made this mistake. They all rely outside media to explain the missing details in the story. Stuff that will confuse casual or new viewers, and stuff they will not care enough to explore. External media should expand upon the main story, not support it. There will never be a Terminator Genisys 2, so I will never know why the events in Genisys happened. If I never watch the Clone Wars TV show, play the games, read the books/comics, or watch explanation videos, how will I understand the events going on in the Prequel films? If I do not have Xbox LIVE, do not watch Forward Unto Dawn, or do not read some stupid retcon cryptum books by Greg Bear, how am I supposed to understand the motivations for Didact or know who Laskey is? The main story should be able to stand on its own. However, the entertainment industry is obsessed with sequels and third party media. They think that by withholding details, they can force you to spend the money to fill in the story details. I'm sorry, Hollywood and Microsoft. That's not how it works.

[@obscuremedia]

What you're describing here are exactly the points I had with the film. It is unoriginal and hard to watch for someone who saw the original films at the theatres. I have a hard time with those who want to say crap from "Rey is special" to "you just didn't understand the film." I understood "Blade Runner" straight out of the gate, and this film is no "Blade Runner" or "Prometheus".

[@DVSPress]

+obscuremedia Yeah the ad-hoc arguments of "this is it's own movie!" "This is more star wars than the prequels!" and "This is the first movie in a trilogy!" -- Together they all negate each other.

[@obscuremedia]

David Stewart You know, I could understand this whole "It's its own movie...." blather if it made sense. But it's a direct copy of 1977 Star Wars. I remember sitting there in the theatre trying to be excited, or emotional about it. Han's death scene particularly. I had that part spoiled so I was preparing myself so when it happened, but when it did I was really disconnected from it. Why? Because the Han I got up until that point was not the Han Solo I remembered. It was as if it were Pod Han. I had no emotional connection whatsoever. And I should have. I wanted to. If it is supposed to be the first film in this "new" trilogy, then it should have spent that time getting us back in touch with the world we left at the end of "Jedi". I mean that in terms of what had happened from the Ewok celebration to where we pick up here. And we should have picked up with the placement of the older characters and met the new characters through the older ones. If you look on my channel, I have my own take on the film. I don't know what you'll think, but I think we both see it the same way.

[@rexremedy1733]

In the return of the Jedi, there is this weird scene where those Teddy Bears are gathered around a black monolith and weird music plays. I found this pretty meta even for 1983.

[@Zermelo]

you analysis is spot on, and I am in total agreement that The Force Awakens has major issues. However, I think you should discuss the fact that a movie can be "fun" but have major plot issues and "external inconsistencies". I found the movie " fun" but did not enjoy the way they treated the established lore. This is the essential problem you're facing with the apologist, that their sense of enjoyment overcomes reasoning. There are many movies that have little realism or logic but are "fun" and that feeling drives people to spin retrospective theory to justify their internal feeling of enjoyment despite the movie's logical failings.

[@DVSPress]

+Zermelo Thanks for watching! I understand that perspective. To me it matters how "seriously" the movie takes itself. Star Wars has always felt a bit more "serious" than "Fun," which explains why people though episode I was so crappy. It mixed its tones. Starship troopers, by contrast, takes itself serious in no way.

[@Zermelo]

+David Stewart I concur that it should matter how "seriously" a movie takes itself, but as the success of movies like the Transformers and "The Fast and the Furious" shows us, that frivolousness and CGI explosions and marketing equals popularity. I would have never thought that the niche for movies like Transformers was as big as it is, but now that it is clear that there is a large audience who are willing to go into movies and just shut off their reasoning, and just let movies rely on releasing feelings of nostalgia and excitement without a coherent story or character development. What happened here once Lucas handed Star Wars over to DIsney, it was hard to imagine that Star Wars was going to take itself seriously anymore. I am also a Star Trek fan and JJ used the same exact formula with Star Wars as he did there: Regurgitate a popular story line, insert glimpses of nostolgic elements to make the old viewers feel at home, over-power the technology, kill major character to evince some semblance of emotion, and keep the excitement go non stop so that you don't have to think about the logic that is going on. He is good at it. I felt the same way about "Into Darkness " as I did here, it was a "fun" movie that made little sense but JJ probably saved the franchise. It's not an excuse, I am good with a franchise dying rather than someone like JJ treating it like a teenager trying to liven it up for the new "Transformer" audiences. But at the end of the day why your getting such pushback for your thoughts on The Force Awakens is that popularity =/= Good Movie Making, and Star Wars has now passed into the hands of people who care more about $$$ than the Star Wars Universe or Lore. BTW, I watched your channel intro, I would never have guessed you were a Musician. You should do regular movie reviews. I sooo sick of empty and naieve reviews fromthe likes of Stuckman, the Schmoes, and Jeremy Jahs.

[@sayenshin]

Came back to this video 2 year later. it's worse than ever!

[@k1arl]

I liked the film and will talk about it with anyone. So to all the people who liked episode seven. Its a long wait to episode eight. Those who clearly hate episode seven should just walk away now and do what i do when I dislike something. Forget that it was even made.

[@DVSPress]

+Rogue Reven Wise. Thanks for stopping by.