StarCraft 2: EXTREME MACRO - Reynor vs HeroMarine!

[@Shiviandemon]

Lowko is in command of Reynor: Confirmed In all seriousness, Lowko's casting has gotten so much better over the years (not that it wasn't already great). His ability to predict moves and judge supply fights has gotten scary accurate.

[@poemdude7747]

dude he watched it before casting

[@Shiviandemon]

@@poemdude7747 Lol! For those who might think hes serious @13:30 he literally stated he hadn't. Also, Lowko was right about the creep tumors as well (Lvl 100 Pokemon indeed). If you watch at @14:55 the tumors show up *right* as Reynor moves his army... He was placing them right after the Nydus went up

[@poemdude7747]

@@Shiviandemon because he watched it before casting

[@liveinamber1307]

Welcome back to learning with Lowko, folks! Today's facts: -Somehow zerglings, banelings and even ultralisks can burrow in bridges. -A Nydus worm's mouth also functions as its butt and vice versa. -The SCV workforce are being killed and replaced my mules.

[@Malpheron]

Der takin er jurbs.

[@wrathin99]

Terran systematically killing SCV workers and replacing them with automated mules was a conspiracy a few months ago. Look at it now 😭

[@Agito928]

"Look......the company is suffering budget cuts.....and wel-"(BOOM BLAM KABOOM PSHHSHLAIFHLIENFLABFPAAAHHHHHHHH-) ..laughed the Planetary.

[@Spartsou]

the Contamination skill by the Overseers is actually used quite a bit by the Zerg AI (Medium, Easy, Very Easy, Hard). I've played a ton of matches where they slow down my one Stargate to get 7 Tempests out, lol. I was surprised to learn how rarely the pros use that ability. great cast!

[@xitaris5981]

Pretty sure you can use the structures tab to see how many creep tumors exist which would correlate to total creep spread. Obviously it's not perfect since creep 'overlaps', but even in situations where you have equal creep spread but an inflated tumor count, that could be indicative of how quickly creep was spread. Having 3 tumors going down the same path will allow you to spread tumors to their maximum distance the moment the cooldown comes up. Having 2 tumors per path achieves almost the same result, so if you're limited on queen energy, like in the early game, or your creep spread cycles isn't perfect every 22 seconds, then 2 would be more optimal use of queen energy and APM. FunFact: If you have achieve perfect creep spread, you can have creep at your opponents main base at ~13 minutes on almost every map, and 100% creep coverage no later than 14 minutes. This was proved experimentally on several of the largest maps using a realistic number of queens and no gimmicks like overlord creep or proxy hatches.

[@3dsmileCG]

HEEELOOO EVVERYONE!

[@alicerouille8903]

MT NAME IS LOWWWKOOOO

[@tuijarapakko208]

And welcome back to a professional mach of starcraft 2

[@yeoldedude7464]

And what i've got for you today

[@Dr.Tropen]

is a Terren Vs Zerg, where we find ourselves on a map Stargazers

[@cosmicprog1]

Playing here with the blue terran ECV's, we have HeroMarines main nexus!

[@yamilabugattas3895]

For some reason that intro always makes me smile, no idea why. Great cast Lowko!

[@bernardo.bridon]

"The turtle's shell one day becomes its tomb." - The Brass Dome's flavour text, Path of Exile. Man it's satisfying to watch terran suffocate on their own strategy.

[@MrZiva82]

maybe if queens were not so utterly broken they might go out and be more aggressive, but what is the point?

[@danielpirez381]

@@MrZiva82 I was wondering where the whining kid was

[@MrZiva82]

@@danielpirez381 i was wondering where the "copy paste i think im so smart" baby was. Only a cry baby like yourself attack the man instead of argument, so hush baby

[@The_Chaosburger]

The Intro! The best casts start with the classic LOWKO INTRO!

[@philip7468]

I really want someone to make a remix of that intro

[@jdspencer60]

Stealth banshee rush absolutely dominated for me in the beta (75% win ratio in 1v1 over about 300 matches), then nobody used it for a long time, I love that it's back (in the beta, it was a timing attack at about seven minutes 30 seconds with my build but that was when time ran differently in this game

[@xitaris5981]

Ah yes, the good ol' days when you started out with 6 workers :P

[@jdspencer60]

@@xitaris5981 and it was beta so if you didn't send at least one to scout you were really tempting fate lol

[@Kaiyuni]

I'll be honest, once I saw that the gold mineral base was basically mined out uncontested with minimal resources lost to maintain control of it... yeah. I don't know what Hero was expecting. He really needed to fight for that. The bank Reynor had to lean back on shows the consequences of uncontested mining.

[@KenTVtw]

he had a lot of chances to all in the clumped up broodlord with over 6 liberators.... but instead of using them to shoot down the broods they are all seiged up... seeing them seiged up right in the face of a clumped up broodlord clump gave me a super hard face palm, shouldve won that last fight

[@WhenIHit88MPH]

Also weird seeing the battlecruiser tech and nothing built. I know Corruptors wreck them, but if zerg is at 200 supply I feel 2-4 of them teleporting onto the tech could do something right? Better than choking on broodlings?

[@charlesatanasio4363]

It was the resource war. He let them get the gold. Which gave zerg too many resources and handed them the initiative. Without steady initiative you CA NOT beat the free units. With the freedom to fight on his own timetable, and enough resources to set the pace of the fight, the zerg knew he'd win, and terran couldn't do much about it.

[@abyssalzei552]

Do Liberators do anything against Armoured tho? Like I don't think it would be a good idea to all in the Libs when you know there are Vipers and Infestors behind those Broods

[@yuuminakajima6197]

Lowko. Thanks for uploading another banger of a game of pro players.

[@yoelezequieldemedici2545]

Most of the information the battle reports or the obs interface shows are things you can take directly or calculate with information the game already gives. To give a creep % it should check the total surface of the map capable of having creep (no fly espace or blocked terrain) and then using (maybe) the full view minimap calculate it aprox, or in real with the total map creep (probably pretty hard to figure).

[@Gaben3210]

Imo easiest half solution would be just a tumor counter. 2nd easiest (considering you can calculate distances between creep giving objects) that you add up all the creep they give in the radius around all of them meanwhile subtracting the ammount of creep was already there. (Since they all these objects give creep in a circular area the duplicated creep area should be easily calculatable by the correct formula.) Problem at first glance is how you said it seems hard to subtract the buildable terrain from that so we don't count rivers and pillars for example to make it really really precise. However that part is might not even that important because most zergs don't put too much tumors or hatches on the sides of buildable areas so counting creepy rivers and pillars is not the end of the world imo. And that way you can also simply just divide by the area of the whole map. Not totally accurate, but does the thing just fine. 3rd option: I think since every buildable\creepable area is also a tile, in theory the game should be able to refer to all tiles specifically like monitors do to each pixel. So Ideally every tile has some properties like Is_buildable=True, or Is_oncreep=False. I have no idea if this really exists and how reachable that info is for these guys. 4th (this might be bullshit) Less ideally sum of all those tiles is 100%, and than you could calculate creep the similar but somewhat harder way as before, with a difference: instead of calculating the area of the circle in square(units?) you'd calculate how much tiles has been newly converted to creepy tiles by the object of the given coordinate minus the unbuildable tiles in that proximity. I think 3rd should be pretty easy if that is like that and the info is accessible. Option 2 would be fine and easy enough but maybe it should be just a number between 0 and 100 instead of an actual percentage because it wouldn't represent an actual %, but something pretty similar to that. Also Lowko would probably explain it in every single game he talks about it so... :D

[@kozatas]

Creepable surface is constant on every map. Calculating the purple-colored surface on the minimap is no big deal I guess. The game calculates a million times more complicated things to run.

[@jeremythemaxwell]

I always thought it would be easiest to just have the game count all the "squares" on the map (like a barracks takes up 3x3) and count the % of them with creep on them

[@Daniel-sl1pb]

+3/+3 Liberators will dismantle clumped up broodlords if they have such tiny corruptor support. I dont know what happened with Heromarine there

[@nickingersoll]

Lowko! I just watched a SC2 Highlight replay and I heard you announcing! I know I'm probably super late but it was so good to hear your voice live casting with zombiegrub (btw you killed it) I'm so happy for you! Congratulations buddy much love from America 🍻

[@TheHighborn]

what i really like about the brood waves is that even if it does just ONE dmg it's a good trade for zerg. it costs nothing.

[@jmilligandesign]

just like in life, it costs time

[@TheHighborn]

@@jmilligandesign well yeah and fatigue. You probably don't want to use it many times in a bo7. I imagine it's totally taxing

[@vitorh3568]

This type of scenario (macro) is very Zerg favored. Those Zerg spell casters shine at these times. The brute lord trick endlessly and freely spawning brutelings also gives huge advantage for Zerg at this type of scenario.

[@GY-bd9bo]

it's actually "broodlords" and "broodlings", but lowko's dutch accent makes it sound like that.

[@nasirruslan3826]

I actually think going aoe missiles as Thor might fix the Broodlords clumping up, along with some sneaky Liberators. Not sure how many Thors you would need though, to one shot a Broodlords using the aoe missiles.

[@svengalt9546]

SCV pilot: Heh, the planetary cannon is probably aiming at a ling behind the minerals, right? Right?

[@itKiba]

That intro is an instant like for me :)

[@immortalkhang8294]

Hahahaha, the zerg fleet has arrived! I just thought of this, who called in the fleet, but zerg Edit 3: I'm finally gonna be able to watch this amazing pro player cast, and I find out Lowko is a mind reader?

[@henrywallace1732]

Soooo happy to hear the OG Lowko intro again! I swear if I could make that my message tone on my phone I'd do it in a hearbeat.

[@paulwills6799]

THE INTRO IS BACK!!! I HAD TO CHECK THE UPLOAD DATE, I'M SO HAPPY!!!!

[@ro031]

The units go in the butt of the worm in the base and emerge at the mouth somehwere out in the map. That's the obvious truth the design of the building shows us but we dont wanna think about. :c

[@edsplosion1]

I find it so satisfying when a fully-laden Medivac goes down.

[@RealBentusiII]

Oh man, i can already see this'll be a banger ed. and it was straight up beautiful

[@syntora8940]

the singing intro gets me smiling every single time =)

[@tommythunder7498]

Beautiful display of why Broodlords NEED to be replaced by Guardians!! Thors, the unit made to counter Broodlords (with their range) get destroyed because of free units making the AI derp around and same with ultralisks they should be able to walk above smaller units!! If you ever doubt please watch Lowko's Real Size units video : Thors should just walk over them and crush them!! Also Liberators NEED there upgrade to be able to attack buildings !!!

[@oza_lup]

Cry about it

[@tommythunder7498]

@@oza_lup sorry don't have time to cry. And i was right they are trying to address the peoblem of Broodlords in the coming balance patch.

[@YellLAG]

I love that we have become so accustomed to the brood lord broodlings spam so quickly that lowko doesn’t even get excited enough by it now to comment I think it was like 5 months ago we watched dark do it I think and we were freaking out

[@marcomarin1196]

I say it all the time Zerg isn't imba they are only imba when you master 5-hand 6-Control Group 7-Spellcaster gymnastics. That only really like 3 zerg players can do, which happened to be the ones who win tournaments consistently over a decade. They are simply just better players

[@RuanHuysen]

Hey! Where is my goodbye message! LOL. Thanks, Lowko! Always fun!

[@bzo218]

6:35 Over a MEGABYTE biG?!?!? LOWKO THIS IS MASSIVE

[@rabbitcreative]

38:18 Does HeroMarine not know Liberators can attack air?

[@evgeniikabantsev9475]

So sad to see that hero tank killing somewhat 100 units and then just dying forsaken on 30:37 :(

[@kirkmcclean9686]

That intro always gets a thumbs up

[@stofsk]

yay classic Lowko intro, insta like ;D

[@tarrker]

The "head" of the Nydus Worm is the part that appears in the enemy base. The "rear" is what you build in your base. Their biology is so completely alien to us, though. They don't "eat" so much as just absorb energy. Their refuse is probably like a gas or something released through their pores. LoL :)

[@byzantines2000]

the best intro ever, we missed it

[@dwilburn]

Lowko, gangstas don't dance they boogie.

[@FernandoPerez-zx2vz]

The broodlords "trick" is just a lose of apm because you can make swarmhosts instead and locusts can fly until they reach their objective making them more lethal and less propense to be killed before they do a lot of damage

[@harrymaxwell8489]

Then the zerg will have no army. Swarm hosts are only useful mid-game due to how much supply they cost

[@Sam-hj8hy]

❤the classic lowko intro.

[@carrotfuton]

People see brood lords being useful in like 3 total games out of thousands since their range was reduced and want them nerfed again lmao. Reynor didnt win because of broods, he won because he had a free extra base and controlled his big army well.

[@moribell1083]

The amount of broodlings that can be generated in such a short time, that is ridiculous.

[@noname-zf5tb]

The amount of marines that can be generated in such a short time, that is ridiculous.

[@streamfun9228]

The amount of brute lords ghosts can one shot is ridiculous (if used properly, unlike it was made in this vid).

[@DrakeyC]

I actually think the Nydus Worm is a hydra with multiple necks and heads, and the Nydus Network is the butt.

[@yhs0809]

For these set of zerg army with a trade of all unit if both lost all unit for fight The detectors can also fly to the terran main base use the contaminate stop the remax process a little time which is very dangerous

[@avalon2481]

we need more viewer games

[@mazinderp]

Sun Tzu says in the Art of War, "Even the finest sword plunged into salt water will eventually rust."

[@imposter8418]

broodlords need a hotfix balance patch and become like reavers scarabs, which only have charges that slowly re-charge and have a storage upgrade/amount , the way raynor did that chain drop abuse that was way too efficent

[@kentekeroth]

More Reynor-videos! Love when they use Brood Lords

[@ryanprettyman758]

great cast Lowko. Fun match to watch

[@hisazul]

Well, if you ever get bored of utube/sc there is a promising future for you as a psychic.

[@doctorjawline7608]

@LowkoTV Just started watching your commenting replays yesterday and it is entertaining af :) Keep up the good job 👍

[@txopin]

Nine drones! What a foresigth!! xD Broodlords are imba!

[@SarumanDeWhite]

Plus thlee flyer attacks really pack a punch ❤

[@blarghaaa]

Honestly with how tightly packed those brroods were, do you think that the thors switching to their aoe anti-air attack would've worked better than the single target? One thor hitting 15 broods at once with that feels like it should be much better than the single target dps.

[@rustyshackleford9637]

might have been more effective in this case, they fire faster and have a bit better range don't they?

[@therealreasons9141]

"I've never seen this before" he is becoming too powerful, Seeing into the future.

[@CorwinTheOneAndOnly]

Honestly, the main thing that would fix so many problems in this game is if air clumping got removed. Seriously, it doesn't need to be in the game. Why do toss get to stack 20 carriers into one small space so they all share the same attack radius? Or zerg? Etc? There's a VERY GOOD reason why ground units cant do it too.

[@kubm4s915]

Not surprisingly end of battle. Looks like there was not enough helbats

[@vigneshjayakrishnan1584]

The answer to this type of zerg strat cant be mass thors. Sure you can have lets say 75% of your supply comprised of what hero marine has. But now that the zerg army is less mobile the response has to be small hit squad guerilla warfare tactics. Sorry Lowko, but in my casual gamer opinion, marines is exactly what Gabe needed.

[@nguyenthuongthuong]

if Heromarine didn't give that base it would be 2 player with 0 resource and max out army at the point this game end. Things would look so much different!

[@VilTheVillain]

At the same time it's not like Reynor wouldn't have been doing anything in that time. For all we know that base might have initially just been bait

[@sausage351]

Loving the intro!!

[@dariusgunter5344]

honestly I dont get why he didnt build vikings at some point, they're air to air defense when there are so many brutlords would've helped a lot and he might have drawn out the investors earlier

[@TheHighborn]

Finally. Some good fucking intro

[@jakeknudsen8196]

@Lowko, i was watching this video today and I had a thought about your comments regarding tracking total creep spread, and i thought it might be easier to instead try to track something like "Static Map vision"? that way it can be a statistic that is tracked across all races?

[@andriyvasilchenko3783]

The original authour of this strategy on the high level is dark.

[@awrawrwar]

Question though - if Zerg masses Broodlords, why don't Terrans go mass Vikings? Or at least build a sizeable stack of them? About the only reason I can think of not to do that is that Vikings are air units and against Zerg and their ability to vomit Zerglings out at the drop at the hat, the need for a solid ground army is very real.

[@Englocked]

Vikings are very vulnerable to fungal. Not saying they aren't an option.

[@prinnyEXE]

The thing!!!!

[@imaguy7070]

At the point of 15 minutes reynor was just playing with his oppenent

[@jeremygarrell2417]

"that you would probably rather not have him have" -> "that you would probably rather not allow him to obtain" FTFY: 🤠

[@MrZiva82]

You can tell the winner at 22nd min of the game. Mobile "static" defense that cost no supply, broodlings that cost no supply, ability that not only instant take out the unit from the fight, but put it in your control, insane mobility backed up by totally broken scouting and eco.... Yeah, you don't win against that. It is better than it was in the infested terran era (which everyone was defending as balanced back then as well), but is still such an uphill battle that it feel totally unfair in my noob opinion

[@peterbreier6058]

Its just zerg is THE race, and all you can do as other is try to deny them doing anything. But its zerg win if its a passive game, its a zerg win if both players play full macro no agression, its zerg free units win in the lategame, So any scenario, if you just play defensive zerg, and dont mess up you are basically guaranteed the win🤷🏻‍♂️

[@nicolasjacob9813]

Do you try your intro several times before launching a good one like that ?

[@hiddentruth1982]

that's why I say brood lords are a top tier unit. wave after wave after wave of free units

[@sethkatz4475]

Classic Lowko intro

[@aj2228]

reynor could have honestly did that broodlord micro better. he kept missing the broodlings.

[@robinjones5874]

Never tire of StarCraft DOO

[@VeryBadPlayerTV]

should have checked the units lost tab a bit more in the late game.

[@pinky797]

I think the overlord mass drop has more potential late game. Imagine 50 overlords with ultra and infests on top of terran death ball.

[@kw8295]

HeroMarine was trying to win a war of attrition against a broodlord zerg army, an exercise in futility if I ever saw one.

[@andrewstout5400]

That no cost brood lord micro trick is kinda super-bs.

[@doublemdoublefun708]

It's that or getting your casters EMPed and your broodlords sniped.

[@godofthegaps6741]

Tbh Heromarine gave away too many ghosts for free

[@asdfasdf-mn8iu]

Yeah, the dilemma of air units bites SC 2 in the ass once again. Thors in theory are hard counters to broods, but because broods can clump and also use terrain to only ever engage like 3-4 thors at a time and there's countless cliffs every 3m on every map, you can't really fight an air army with a ground army properly. That's gonna stay a problem for SC 2 as long as the game exists, but since most games are won by build order execution and not strategy, that's not gonna get figured out, lol.

[@zbigniew2628]

He should make a raven and use its missile, then push with liberators, or drop 3-4 thors with splash damage. Thor drop with ghost and helions in to the main could be lethal.

[@MotionScientific]

Zerg is overpowered. When Zerg players start complaining they go and correct Terran and Protoss like what the just did with the Voids but they always give more power to Zerg. And crazy capabilities.

[@oza_lup]

Cry about it

[@danielbirkholz4059]

He said the thing !!!

[@hamburgerman805]

Would like to know more about what reynor was doing this game Also cast reynor some more I love reynor❤

[@darksombrerehorus]

something i dont get, when therre are 35 broodlords stacked up .... would'nt it be more worse it to switch to missile instead of high impact mode, sure lest dammage on one but so SO much more spread on all 35 and when 15 volley fly into 35 broods, i dont think it would take that more than 3 times to whipe every thing What are your thought about it ?

[@333kenshin]

Can we all agree that liberators are absolutely trash against late game brood lords? Free up the supply for hellbats healed by medevacs

[@noname-zf5tb]

Can we all agree that brood lords are absolutely trash against late game vikings?

[@asterpw]

Liberators are for the infestors.

[@quinlamothe5929]

Reynor never spreads creep in main

[@jawnsea4432]

HE DID THE THING

[@-42-47]

Raynor is Italian so I wouldn't be surprised if he does some dancing.

[@jayyrod1]

Do colossus do well against the baby broodlings? I don't know what their armor type is but I know the laser giraffe does good damage grouped up units!

[@hivetech4903]

Yes but you can't make Colossus in late game PvZ as they are horrible against everything else.

[@Neceros]

great game

[@someguy1141]

NR 20 hits different in SC2 :)

[@blackywokvesheart4304]

well raynor really abused the shit out of that brootlords bug. Luckily it got fixed in the last patch

[@michaelwicker9538]

So... Why are infestor and corruptor free, but carrier fighters aren't? I feel like there is a good way to balance it out so that there's no way to spam free units, without just nixing the whole unit.

[@getoffthegames89]

Infester and corruptor aren’t free, do you mean broodlings or swarm host bugs?

[@jmilligandesign]

broods take up a boatload of supply - they're not free

[@michaelwicker9538]

@@jmilligandesign but carriers charge minerals every time you replace a fighter. That's my point.

[@michaelwicker9538]

@@getoffthegames89 yeah, if it was a small cost, like 2 minerals for broodlings when they launch, and maybe 5 from swarm host? Balancing an RTS that has asymptomatic free unit spawning is basically impossible.

[@getoffthegames89]

@@michaelwicker9538 yea but there are also trade offs….swarm bugs require a fair bit of micro to fly then and then land them, and both broodlings and swarm bugs can only attack ground. Interceptors are less micro intensive and can attack both air and ground. If they didn’t cost minerals to rebuild, they would be too op in this context

[@tipofthespear7821]

We have been playing the same game for years now might as well learned German in all that time i played

[@h4hyena]

I want you to know, when you did the intro, I did it with you its been so long.

[@danielbaca8947]

Haven´t have him have just twist with my brain cells :D

[@anthonyzarakikira1712]

Would battle cruiser transition counter this?

[@ironmonkey1512]

I'm a sucker for mass anything.

[@patrymaxim7603]

I like the old intro