Starfront Observatories vs my Bortle 5 backyard

[@Astro_Shed]

Great video, personally I don’t see a big enough difference between your backyard image and the Starfront image, to warrant the remote set up, BUT i think what they are doing out there is superb, and will be great for many people…personally, I love the tinkering with my kit, and can’t afford a second set up…👍🏻

[@DSOImager]

Thanks Stewart! The backyard data was pretty good. For me the cleaner data from the remote site is worth it. It's going to work real well for the fainter targets I'm interested in. CS!

[@nickambrose8606]

Very nice. We have nine months of clouds so getting a rig here would be amazing

[@DSOImager]

It's awesome. Since getting my scope out there its been clear for all but a few nights. :)

[@Rainy78]

Definitely cleaner with darker skies altogether 👍🏻

[@DSOImager]

Will be interesting to see how it goes with dimmer targets.

[@Thunder_Dome45]

I'm thinking of going there. I moved like you to a smaller town. A year later they got the LED bug and added 3 miles of LED spotlights a block from my apartment. I give it 5 years before somebody discovers there's an observatory there and moves in next door and builds a stadium. For some reason the world wants to hide the sky.

[@DSOImager]

That's aweful about the led's. While you can never say never.. I think this place will be good for some time. There is nothing out there except Windmills.

[@LogansAstro]

Great choice to get a rig out at Starfront. Data definitely looked better at Starfront.

[@DSOImager]

@@LogansAstro Thanks. The data i have coming in on other targets is looking great. :)

[@ClearAmbientSkies]

I think that ‘bow shock’ at the bottom left definitely looks like a reflection. My RASA 11 is so susceptible to this effect even with an average bright star nearby. Framing is so important for me. As far as hating on remote observatories, I consider it no different than taking my equipment to a remote location and setting up. I love this comparison video. The starfront data is certainly cleaner. I remember when digital photography was introduced. It was ‘cheating’ then too according to the pearl-clutchers. Beautiy is in the eye of the beholder. Who cares what anyone thinks? I only care if you’re a friend or family. Haters gonna hate. You’re a great astrophotographer no matter where you setup. Clear skies.

[@DSOImager]

Thanks Jason! Appreciate your comments as always :) I remember that film vs digital debate. I think sometimes people forget this is a hobby, that can be enjoyed in many different ways. CS!

[@petesastrophotography]

Excellent video James, I been hoping to see a side-by-side comparison like this for a while now. I have been processing a lot of data recently that has come from Starfront and it's a joy to work with. I'm now seriously thinking about shipping one of my rigs across the pond to take advantage of the dark skies (and lots of them). There are a few sites in Europe that offer a similar pier hosting service but they are so much more expensive that it's still more cost effective shipping to the States instead.

[@DSOImager]

Thanks Pete! The cost at Starfront is really what made this move possible. If they were not around, and if there were no other options at this price point, I wouldn't have made the move.

[@calimark7448]

Yup. Big difference in the dark sky site. Well worth it. Thanks!

[@DSOImager]

Thanks!

[@JoseNavarroCo]

That's a really cool comparison. I live in bortle 8, bortle 7 on the best days, and your bortle 5 is a great image in my eyes. Since I live in such a light-polluted area, I use filters up to my eyeballs. The Antlia 3.5mm filters are a miracle; the data I get is like a bortle 3. I highly recommend those filters.

[@DSOImager]

Thanks! Bortle 5 is not bad but it does have it's limits.

[@jodiannkarambela4946]

Hi James! Great video. I'm so tempted to go to Starfront. I live near SF, and collecting good data is a challenge. I've been watching KZbin and seen many folks set up rigs at Starfront. Still, no one (I can find) has done a video showing "after" they've set up there and how they interfaced with their remote rig and all the challenges, such as accessing, downloading data, etc. Have you considered doing one now that you are up and running? Asking for a friend! Ha!

[@DSOImager]

Hi Jodi, I have considered that. The one thing that's been holding me back is security concerns. I don't want to accidentally reveal too much information about my set up (computer names, file structures, google account information, etc). That said, to answer your question.. I use Chrome remote desktop to access my remote system and transfer files. Chrome remote desktop is limited in one way, it doesn't let you transfer more than one file at a time. I get around this by zipping up all the data taken each night and then transferring the zipped file. Another work around would be to transfer your files through some other utility, like dropbox. The network connection is very fast, uploading a compressed 2gig file takes less than a minute. As far as power goes, you use a remote power strip. They will sell you one if you don't send one in with your gear. The one they use is from the brand kasa. I can use the kasa app on my phone to power cycle if needed. The mini PC is set in the bios to power on when the kasa plug is turned on. I should probably do a video on this, but hopefully I've answered your questions. Feel free to ask more. Oh btw, its James, not John :)

[@DanieleBorsari]

That thing on the lower left that you think is a reflection is actually part of the nebula. I also see that structure on my image as well as on other's people images

[@DSOImager]

How interesting! I just checked out some images from others and sure enough it's there. Must be a Bow Shock caused by a near star.

[@OldGirlPhotography]

Similar to another comment, I find both images compelling and the improvement, while clearly visible, isn't enough of an exponential difference for me. I'm frankly envious of the detail you are able to achieve from your backyard (I also shoot in Bortle 5), but I appreciate the speed and convenience of working remotely, especially if you still have a career to manage. It's great to have so many choices in this hobby.

[@DSOImager]

Thanks Nina! I do understand that some will be quite satisfied with the bortle 5 data. Yes.. it's great to have so many options. CS!

[@insnprsn]

Don't mind my pareidolia but at 17:33 I see the Lich King reaching out to grab you. Sweet compare James.

[@DSOImager]

@@insnprsn i see it, lol! Thanks Josh!

[@kajouman]

close nearby, just a 3 hour drive... here in the netherlands its from one to the other side of the country haha.. clear sky !!

[@DSOImager]

LOL! When going on a cross country road trip, living in Central Texas means the "Texas" leg of the trip is usually the longest :) CS!

[@deeMilee]

Great video!!!!

[@DSOImager]

Thanks!!

[@John_Hudson_922]

what software are you using to run your rig there and how do you access it?

[@DSOImager]

@@John_Hudson_922 Chrome remote desktop.

[@jackbernstein3029]

… and do you have a flat panel and filter wheel, etc.?

[@jackbernstein3029]

@@DSOImagerChrome Remote Desktop connects to your controlling hardware on the scope. what are you using?

[@DSOImager]

@@jackbernstein3029 i use sgp, but many use nina. You can use any software you like.

[@DSOImager]

@@jackbernstein3029 no flat panel. I do use a filter wheel.

[@pompeymonkey3271]

I agree with you about the difference being about a magnitude or so. I would hazard a guess that you are in fair to good Bortle 4, despite how you feel about the ever encroaching LP (!). The remote is probably a 2. The remote I'm at in Spain also "only" has Bortle 2-3 skies. BUT it is clear 200-250 nights annually, where I would be lucky to get 30-50 in the UK. AND it is much more affordable than the premium sites at higher altitude. In the end, it's all about the quality triangle. lol. Sorry for the CAPS. I am just trying to emphasise :) BTW, I have actually spent less on "upgrading" equipment since going remote.

[@DSOImager]

@@pompeymonkey3271 Thanks! Im on the local committee that is working on my towns dark sky application. Part of that involves talking sqm measurements. While there isn't a direct translation between sqm and bortle there is a range that seems pretty close. My eyesight is poor, so id be a poor judge of bortle scale, but the sqm readings from my backyard, on a good night are right around 20.05, give or take .1. When i started taking measurements a few years ago, we were in the 20.2 range.

[@psuaero100]

How do you Polar Align the mount? I assume you put in a ticket and the staff does it. Do they just plug into your mount/scope and then run something like SharpCap, Nina, or other software? Obviously, you could check it after they do it but they'd have to do any fine tuning on-site.

[@DSOImager]

@@psuaero100 They polar align it during installation. Its included with your deposit.

[@JonnyBravo0311]

I've been extremely tempted to go remote for a while now. I thoroughly enjoy the hobby, but the challenges I face setting up at the end of my driveway tend to dampen the enthusiasm. First and foremost are the quality of my skies. I'm easily Bortle 7. I've got streetlights and neighbors with always-on bright lights. Besides the obvious light pollution issues, the quality of my skies is not the greatest in terms of transparency and seeing. Next is my view of the sky. I have virtually zero view east of the meridian, meaning the majority of my imaging is done to the west and north. Which is unfortunate, because that's exactly where the largest light domes are (Philly). This leads to extremely limited time on target. I think the absolute max I can get on a target in the "perfect" trajectory for my sky is under 6 hours. Most of the time, I'm limited to 3 hours at best. If I'm trying to capture anything to the south, I've got about 90 minutes. With the remote setup, how are you taking calibration frames? Are you doing sky flats? How are you dealing with the stars you'd inevitably pick up, or do you have someone go throw a tee shirt over the end of your scope? Do they have flat panels you can ask them to put on / take off your scope?

[@DSOImager]

Weather permitting, they roll the roofs off before sunset and roll them back on after sunrise. During that time you can take sky flats. With a clear sky, you don't need a T-shirt. You also don't really need a lot of subs for the flats either. One morning before leaving for work from the hotel, I grabbed 6 sky flats for the lum folder. For Darks/Bias, they have a sign up sheet to let them know you want a scope cap on your rig during the full moon. In the morning they remove the caps. You've been going up hill both ways in the snow to get Astrophotography for a long time. A remote option is worth considering for sure. So far, this option is working out.

[@JonnyBravo0311]

@@DSOImager yeah, it's a bit of a struggle. Some sick part of me actually thinks this makes my images somehow more satisfying because I had to overcome all these obstacles. I might need to seek professional help :). I'm tempted to grab subs on the California nebula with my luminance filter (Player One Poseidon, SharpStar 15028HNT) just to compare them to what you got. The f/2.8 _should_ help a little, but I'm betting I get nowhere near the detail you did even from your backyard.

[@DSOImager]

@@JonnyBravo0311 After the first year of Astro, I was so over the whole pulling the thing out every night and doing the polar alignment. :) Let me know if you want a closer look at the data, I'll put it on google drive.

[@JonnyBravo0311]

@@DSOImager oh, I hear you. The primary reason I went with a CEM40 over the EQ6-R was the weight. I knew very well that if I had to fully setup and tear down every time I wanted to image, my rig would be collecting dust, not photons. I leave the entire thing completely setup in my garage, so all I have to do when I want to image is carry it to the end of my driveway, then go back to the garage and get the Jackary, plug in a single cable and press the power button on the mini PC. Since I image from exactly the same spot every time, I'm usually only off a few arcminutes and polar alignment is done very quickly. If you want to put some data up on a Google Drive, I'll definitely check it out.

[@jackbernstein3029]

What are you using for remote control and access? I assume that you are using a Mini-PC and NINA, etc.. I don’t think that an ASIAir would work well here.

[@DSOImager]

@@jackbernstein3029 yea, im using a mini pc. I use chrome remote desktop to run the rig. There are people there using asiair. I have not looked into how they are using it though.

[@anata5127]

A lot of KZbin “astro celebrities” moved to StarFront. Nico Carver moved there (after construction of own observatory in NH!). Then, Galactic Hunter after jumping from one remote observatory to another settled in StarFront. Now, DSO imager. Who do we have else to move there? Trevor? Adam? Neh, he likes at 24” scopes. They are organized in groups and collecting combined data for hundred’s of hours. Are you going to participate in collective data collection, James?

[@DSOImager]

I'm no astro celebrity :) I doubt Trevor would do a remote rig, especially after his video on Starfront. I think he will stay focused on the "backyard" form of astrophotography with some camping trips/star parties on the side. Chuck is in Starfront! He has is RASA/ASI533MC in there. Not an astrophotographer but KZbinr Fraser Cain (aka UniverseToday) has a Celestron Origin in there and occasionally does virtual star parties with it. Maybe I'll participate in some of the joint stuff.. but at least for now I plan to hit all the dark/faint targets I didn't want to attempt from my backyard.

[@anata5127]

@@DSOImager This is great! I glad they opened such facilities. Great alternative to facilities holding massive scopes and charging a lot of money. But, there is logic in those expensive facilities. They are geared for 14”+ scopes. Interestingly, StarFront will cost more if someone wants 12”+ scope to install. They cut out a migration of these big scopes there. Again, very smart decision. Place for astro celebrities, astro educators, and hard working astro enthusiasts (sort of working class people!). Will we get a Union there?

[@ProjectThrive]

Bro whistles every time there’s an S word

[@DSOImager]

I lost the little foam cover for the mic. That is probably why.

[@mariospenard5125]

Yes not much different! 😊

[@jesuschrist2284]

Sunny texas

[@DSOImager]

Indeed!

[@renedecandia]

Hmmm……………..that’s $1800/yr for a slightly more detailed image. $18,000 over 10yrs. You sure it’s worth it?

[@DSOImager]

@@renedecandia slightly more detailed is a gross understatement. Did you not see that a 3hr stack had more signal than the 6hr stack? Maybe it was hard to see the difference across youtube on a bright target. Also consider significantly less gradients. In regards to the costs.. that's up to the individual, what they are wanting to do in this hobby and what their financial situation is. For me at this time, yea it's worth it. :)

[@anata5127]

Well, in New Mexico, you will pay 12,000 a year. And places are not better than this. Actually, StarFront is better.

[@Nick-we7lf]

Not worth it dude. Waste of money.

[@DSOImager]

How so?