State Game Officials Stole Man's Trail Cam While Trespassing?

[@frugalaudio]

I'll keep saying it: Constitutional violations by government officials need to come with criminal consequences. Civil proceedings are not sufficient.

[@YouveBeenMiddled]

Make Tar & Feathers Great Again!

[@sultanofsick]

Need to specify FOR THE INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBLE. Paying off the wronged person with taxpayer money and/or holding "the agency" responsible is not a valid solution.

[@Moe_Posting_Chad]

@@sultanofsick They have names faces and families. Wouldn't take too many... Of something. To... Come to some kind of amicable resolution.

[@no-cv4dx]

You can't even do civil proceedings. The Supreme Court decided state government officials shouldn't have to worry about violating a citizen's rights guaranteed by the supreme Law of the Land, and enforced by legislation (42 U.S. Code § 1983), in the course of their official duties. They practically made every government official a monarch with immunity; one of the many causes when Congress declared their independence from his majesty.

[@devangoad]

Suing the city only hirts taxpayers. It’s a system literally designed to punish those who speak out, while protecting the actual wrong doers.

[@TheDuelManiacs]

If someone's wearing camouflage while trespassing on someone's property and surveilling the occupants and stealing their property, doesn't that indicate to the courts that they know they're doing something wrong?

[@chrishagreen3988]

they'd get shot here in the mountains.

[@matthewwarren7879]

Exactly i mean... did they steal it because it recorded them running around illegally? What justification do they give for possession of the trail camera?

[@WildBikerBill]

@@matthewwarren7879 I'd be willing to bet they stole the camera precisely because it would allow them to be identified. All their other claims are just distracting appeals to Plausible Deniability.

[@hiddensquid335]

Didn’t stop Ruby Ridge

[@MattH-wg7ou]

Were they running around illegally or legally trespassing though? Due to the abhorrent Open Fields doctrine that allows Game Wardens to go whenever and wherever they please? I still dont understand how that has not been struck down yet. Either way, they stole a camera from private property.

[@BlankBrain]

The government shouldn't be able to get a warrant for the camera because they couldn't have known the camera was there unless they illegally trespassed in the first place.

[@joshuagibson2520]

Bingo

[@darleneclarke4001]

But they didn't even bother to get a warrant in the first place

[@ScottMStolz]

They could get a warrant for any cameras that might exist, just like they could get a warrant for any documents that might exist. They don't have to know it exists to get a warrant. They just have to convince a judge there probably is evidence.

[@mahbriggs]

@ScottMStolz That is what is known as a general warrant and expressly prohibited by the Constitution! Not that the government seems to pay much attention to it at the federal level or the State!

[@simonmultiverse6349]

I hate to criticise those fine upstanding agents of the state, but... but... *BUT* ..... I am _RELUCTANTLY_ forced to the conclusion that, even though they are obviously *NOT* complete and utter assholes, they are doing a *PRETTY DAMN GOOD IMITATION* .

[@williamwallace9826]

The Institute for Justice has been working of the "open fields" doctrine for several years. I hope they prevail. This case is outrageous -- it's clearly a case of theft under color of law.

[@brmolnar]

When I first heard about this, I assumed the officer stole the camera because he was likely pictured on it, and thus wanted to hide that he was there and what he was doing.

[@gasad01374]

that is probably exactly what happened, people dont wear camo unless they are trying to hide the fact that they were there, hide who they are and hide what they were doing

[@TheGuruStud]

Bc the govt is a criminal entity

[@diamondjim7560]

That is what I thought considering he was dressed in camo. Not like he was in jeans and flannel.

[@meta3584]

With that he could grab the sd card delete the pictures and put it back. Game wardens in my state have done that and gone back with a shovel to hide footprints in the snow

[@tomhenry897]

How would you know if anything was deleted Or added

[@Voltaic_Fire]

Trespassing laws definitely should apply to the government and government tools, if they had any reasonable excuse to be there then they'd get a warrant to be there.

[@roberthale8407]

THEY DO. USC18 241 and 242.

[@Moe_Posting_Chad]

@@roberthale8407 When laws aren't enforced. You need to go to your local house of worship, and tell the other land owning fathers. It doesn't take much, and faith gives community and shared values.

[@tbelding]

Even better - publicly owned property, that is paid for by taxpayer money, they consider it 'trespassing' if a taxpayer crosses into the property. My attitude is this. As long as the building is open - that is, people are inside - they cannot deny people the right to enter the building.

[@Moe_Posting_Chad]

*B E C O M E U N G O V E R N A B L E*

[@kirklanyoshinaga8953]

@@Moe_Posting_Chad and what exactly is church supposed to do? Pray to the lord to smite them into oblivion? 🤨

[@AbNomal621]

Without a warrant the agent should be charged with theft and civil rights violations. Further, both the agent and the agency should be required to pay at least 4 times the cost of the camera plus $500.

[@darthrevan6544]

@kirkwood1231 I understand what you are saying this guy doesn’t want money he wants these officers to respect his privacy and his no trespassing signs.

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

@@darthrevan6544 And how do we make people respect civil rights? By charging them with crimes.

[@AbNomal621]

@@darthrevan6544 I suspect most people are the same way. Unfortunately, money is the only way this won’t happen again (and again). If he doesn’t want it, he can donate it to a cause.

[@lindac6416]

I can’t say what I want ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️

[@jupitercyclops6521]

​@Linda C We've allowed our 1st ammendment to be compromised (like the other ammendments)

[@jrhunt414]

Had the same thing happen to me. Judge gave them a warrant after they took the camera from my property to view the photos. They didn’t have the software to view anything. I finally got the camera back and reviewed the images. Found the rat who wanted to be an anonymous reporter and he no longer has hunting access. I notified all the other hunters that he can’t be there anymore. Informed everyone else as well that if they see anything they can notify the landowner (me) and I can handle the situation as I see fit. Anyone who calls a warden onto my property will lose their hunting privileges for life. In the police report he was referred to as a trusted and frequent informant to the warden service. He is now publicly known in the area as a rat and isn’t a welcome person in many places. His business was boycotted. No illegal activity was found and all criminal charges were dropped but this guy lost a lot.

[@calebfielding6352]

wouldnt it be nice if a judge asked, "Did you have a warrent?" And when they said, "No" the judge said, "Balaif arrest them for stealing."

[@JovinRepairs]

In Missouri, under the "open field doctrine" a conservation agent or game warden may enter your land without a warrant as any time in the interest of public resources(fish, game, wildlife), but they are not supposed to just randomly remove private property from the area. In my area, people often keep multiple cameras around areas and have often publicly outed people stealing game cameras by posting the videos from other game cameras.

[@brentbeacham9691]

Wonderful! Surfs and usurpers in medieval England were often tried in a court of law for trespassing on a lords property. Surfs as Game Wardens have a part of their responsibility to stop intrusion. These game warden’s are replaced with “Do Not Trespass” and camera’s. We Must protect the land owner and those who protect them from violation of lands. Peace officers are our friends.

[@floydrandol2731]

Show me where the Constitution says that! It doesn’t!!!!!

[@5000rgb]

Yes, many states allow game wardens to enter private property if game or fish are know to be present, to enforce game laws. The wildlife is considered to be the property of the citizens of the state.

[@FlatFifties]

A far as I know trail cameras on your own property are completely legal and unrestricted under any code including the conservation code. How is taking your trail camera legally different from taking your lawn mower, or taking your bicycle, or taking your bird houses, or taking your tractor, or taking your truck?

[@deidrabrey4043]

It's wrong. He was taking it to collect evidence for a suspicion the land owner might have been violating hunting laws elsewhere. Not sure how that works but that was his story.

[@mf--]

​@@deidrabrey4043so still a warrantless search

[@deidrabrey4043]

@@mf-- Like I said it's wrong

[@ericwilliams1659]

​@@elinope4745please post the name of this secret public court.

[@wessltov]

​@@ericwilliams1659 He can't answer, the Illuminati got him

[@justnana2256]

I think trespassing on someones property without permission, a warrant or exigent circumstances should be prosecuted no matter who it is and theft is something only scum of the earth does.

[@Sondan1988]

We are law enforcement and the laws don't apply to us.

[@keres993]

We also investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing.

[@jjr6929]

You guys see that cop that got pulled over by another cop for doing 80 in a 45....acted like it's no big deal, refused to give his license and drove off....but wait there's more..... he's getting busted anyway after the fact....how the heck did that happen? Arresting officer supported by his supervisor.

[@johnburgess2084]

We ARE Law Enforcement (i.e., POLICE, Game Wardens, etc., regardless of our title) and many Constitutional provisions were written SPECIFICALLY to prevent us from doing certain things! And, as we all know, the Supreme Court HAS been know to reverse its own precedent. Roe v. Wade comes to mind as a particularly egregious reversal.

[@Sondan1988]

@@jjr6929 I get your point but what would happen if you or I did ANY of what that cop did ? We would be tased, shot, attacked, and sitting in a jail cell.

[@gridtac2911]

@@Sondan1988 pit maneuver incoming literally about 20 seconds after that encounter. They treat cops differently because they don't see us as equals dude. They're above the law and have to resort to "reporting" to their command. Fuck that I would have loved to see a pit maneuver on that cop's SUV.

[@robertcooperjr.1256]

In the Commonwealth of Virginia, a game warden can search your property without a warrant. They can even enter and search your home without a warrant. I have never understood how this works, but no laws, as they stand now, were broken. I think this is why the suit exists, and the IJ involvement to get the law changed.

[@BobSmith-kd4oc]

It's the exact same way in Wisconsin

[@Dennis-c1w]

So in that place they are little more than secret police/gestapo?

[@BobSmith-kd4oc]

@@Dennis-c1w it's like that everywhere

[@mikriker3608]

The officials involved in this should be fired for violating private property no trespassing signs and fined into poverty for stealing the cameras. This is disgusting and they need to be slapped across the face with extremely harsh punishments and should be shamed for this to the point everyone in the US knows that they cant be trusted to properly do their jobs and are willing to do anything to uphold their own ideals above the law.

[@glee21012]

Go back and listen to the part about "open fields doctrine"

[@snex000]

Fired? How about fired at?

[@tjnak]

@@glee21012 Theft of liberty by another name.

[@davidh9638]

@glee21012 There is nothing in the "open fields doctrine" about stealing cameras.

[@mikriker3608]

@snex2045 why waste perfectly good bullets on scum who would better serve in slums as an example of what happens when you back stab the people

[@canadianeh4792]

With regard to planes flying over the property, my brother in law owns an aerial survey company and was taking high resolution survey photos of a large ranch in Alberta, Canada. By coincidence, one of the days he was taking pictures, the neighbour was murdering a couple and their grandson, he caught the bodies on camera, then the guy burning the bodies. R v Garland if you're interested.

[@cindymitchell6719]

WOW, I remember that.

[@MattH-wg7ou]

Holy crap

[@tyharris9994]

All I was able to bring up with that search term was a domestic abuse case.

[@canadianeh4792]

@@tyharris9994 Douglas Garland is the murderer's name, it was just outside Calgary.

[@lordchaa1598]

My uncle got in trouble for setting up a pit/fall trap in front of his trail cam because they kept getting stolen. Sure enough some jackass from DNR snuck onto the property to steal the trail cam as he had been doing for years. Well this time he fell 15 ft into a pit of muddy putrid water. My uncle ended up being charged with reckless endangerment and some other serious charge and ended up paying a huge fine and had to serve 60 days in jail. What’s the point of owning property if you’re not even allowed to protect it?

[@sv2697]

Make sure he doesn't live, bury him, dead man tells no tale.

[@glee21012]

You can't set booby traps, your uncle is a dumbass. What if it was a kid that fell in and got killed. SMFH.

[@johncooper7663]

Yeah, there are laws against setting traps for people, even in your own house. There is a potential that people with no criminal intent can get hurt .

[@snex000]

Don't pay the fine. Resist arrest. Stop expecting the state to protect you. This ends when we assert our rights, not beg for them.

[@twillison8824]

​@John Cooper this guy nailed it, pretty sure Steve has made a video addressing the booby trap issue before.

[@joshfly210]

I’m glad the institute for justice picked up this case. Small counties or parts of the US, the government or authorities think they can do whatever they want because it’s “their” county or jurisdiction and they’re the “SHERIFF” around these parts lol. I’m glad that the IJ are picking cases like this up which go high up and put the government officials on notice that their actions will have consequences if they do it again.

[@TheDisorderly1]

So is the Natural resources officer in custody? I mean he stole something and the police know who stole it, why aren't the being prosecuted?

[@machintelligence]

It was civil asset forfeiture. The camera might have been dealing in drugs. /snark

[@joshclearwater6461]

Dude the scariest thing isn't that the were snooping and messing with equipment... These guys were outside ACTIVELY SURVEILING the families activities.... In full camo... Steve please comment on THAT

[@brt5273]

The bit about the person in full camo surveilling/stalking that family is highly disturbing.

[@joshclearwater6461]

dude yes that's immediately what I said

[@michaelshrader5139]

That warrants somebody getting shot and killed where I come from. A property owner would have every reason to be in fear of his or her life if they catch somebody in camouflage lurking in the woods on their property near their home! Just saying.

[@ARockRaider]

my money says it was the "warden"

[@mojoman2001]

​@Michael Shrader -- Don't test that theory. The standard is "imminent" threat of death or serious bodily injury. Game warden (or anyone) just sitting quietly in the woods 150 yards from your house is not that. Unless he is pointing a rifle at you, nobody 150 yards away is an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. Granted, it is very offensive in the sense of disturbing or upsetting, but that is not the applicable legal standard. KZbin comment-lawyers need to get a grip. If I had a nickle for every time a KZbin comment-lawyer misapplied the self-defense standard....

[@stephentthomas]

​@@mojoman2001 So... You are more qualified to comment on KZbin on the topic of law than lawyers? Where do you get these credentials?

[@chaos.corner]

Sounds like they weren't trying to get evidence of a crime from the cameras but to conceal it.

[@Arassar]

I can understand something being "in plain view," like a stolen car sitting in a person's driveway. But going onto a guy's property to search something seems to be way beyond the bounds.

[@mf--]

And in camo seems like knowingly trespassing.

[@deathlis]

@@mf-- Not that I disagree, but it's fair to point out that they likely don't HAVE anything that's not camo. Pretty much all my clothing that is geared towards deep woods/swamp traversal is camo of one type or another. That said, we all wear blaze orange for that exact reason, and you cannot enter state hunting land without it, even in outside hunting season.

[@pauls5745]

what kills me is they were dressed in camo so as to trespass unseen. IF there were hunters in the area, you probably don't want to be camouflaged

[@knerduno5942]

Sound like he should of called the local sheriff department.

[@ScottMStolz]

​@@knerduno5942 He did. The Sheriff was the one who told him who had the camera.

[@bryancondrey6457]

In Virginia (a commonwealth not a state) I believe all Game Wardens and DWR associates have authority equivalent to State Police. I'm glad that The Institute for Justice has stepped up because the "state" will never find themselves at fault.

[@KniFz]

Its crazy how many laws out there have an exception for government personnel. Government shouldnt get special treatment and if they can do something then we should be able to as well.

[@LeCharles07]

It's called living in a police state.

[@Sondan1988]

Remember your statement when you hear how law enforcement are all such heroes. The law enforcement officers in this story are criminals. (Legal criminals but criminals....unless someone thinks theft isn't a crime.)

[@jame3shook]

reading the complaint, it was DWR policy to do this, but is contrary to the VA constitution.

[@chezronstevenson6825]

​@@jame3shookpolicy Never trumps Constitution. They use police and codes, to create revenue for the state.

[@loginavoidence12]

i live in California, i have no trespassing signs up because if you don't in this state, nobody is considered trespassing

[@gasmaster8437]

If the list is exclusively "persons, houses, papers, and effects," how do people in apartments, condos, yurts, tents, or living in vehicles get any protection? How is there any curtilage included at all?

[@alexanderpitman9433]

First day of turkey season, dressed in full cammo... That could have ended in a very unfortunate manner had the owner (mom) been armed, or they had actually been out hunting that day.

[@eldiablo7862]

Oops....shame on him.

[@gridtac2911]

@desperate need of scotch with a 10ft hole at the end, and mouths stay shut.

[@franklyanogre00000]

​@@gridtac2911don't forget to shallow bury an animal above it.

[@teenapittman4241]

He would have shot her for ''being in fear for his life'. And possibly shot the child too. On her own property.. It has happened before.

[@russellhltn1396]

Trespassing and open field doctrine: It's one thing to apply it to a open field where you can see from one side to another. But with woods, there's a point where the property is no longer observable from public view and the open field doctrine no longer applies.

[@franklyanogre00000]

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society. Over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frédėric Bastiat

[@douglashoward9616]

And they do give out military medals for killing children.

[@Moe_Posting_Chad]

Level 3 body armor doesn't stop hunting accidents.

[@ostlandr]

But if Ayn Rand says basically the same thing, she's the Devil Incarnate.

[@ostlandr]

@@Moe_Posting_Chad "Officer, he was in full Realtree Mossy Oak, with a face mask. No blaze orange. I had NO idea anybody was downrange."

[@Moe_Posting_Chad]

@@ostlandr "No comment officer, you can arrest me if you wanna keep asking questions. If not, why are you still detaining me?"

[@bayoumanbryan]

in Louisiana the game wardens can and do regularly go into peoples houses and search them without a warrant. they say no warrant is required. they go in freezers and arrest you if they find anything illegal

[@jboz1435]

Oh crap there’s a trail cam, take it until we can find a good excuse for being here!!

[@metallicrockb1]

Mr. Lehto - Just wanted to say thank you for spreading your knowledge to the rest of us. Your knowledge and ability to tell a story while keeping my attention is very appreciated. I watch an episode a night. Have a great day and keep up the great work.

[@timothyboone5003]

Tennessee had a case that Steve has reported on, that was similar but just the opposite. TWRA (Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency) entered private property and installed their trail cam. Property own found the trail cam installed on his land watch over his land. So he took it down. Before it was over he was charged with theft of the camera. The case made it to the State Supreme Court and the laws changed. TWRA can not rely on the Open Fields Doctrine to enter private property without a warrant or consent.

[@AttacMage]

pretty sure he covered that one. could've been someone else,though.

[@stevenweishaupt8591]

I just commented on that same story . I remember they put their cameras on his property. He found them and took them down . They raided his house with guns drawn . I hope he is suing them and wins .

[@timothyboone5003]

Steven Weishaupt They did sue and won. They only sued for $1. It wasn’t money they were seeking. They wanted the laws to be changed.

[@timothyboone5003]

Attac Mage Please reread the very first sentence. In it I acknowledge that Steve has covered this story.

[@AttacMage]

@@timothyboone5003 very sorry. I read it as you saying you didn't think he'd covered it. ie. "Tennessee has a case that Steve hasn't reported on"

[@Billy-u8s]

Sue the state, and fire any and every agent who violates the Constitution rights of citizens!!!

[@KB-qh2jt]

The power of the state and federal game commissions when wildlife conservation regulation violations are invovled is off the charts.

[@jupitercyclops6521]

Worse than that. It's like you said , minus the violation. They just have to suspect & they don't even need probable cause!!!

[@bobpawtucket1336]

AND THAT MUST BE STOPPED!

[@fishingpol5195]

They act like cops except when it comes to getting warrants then they forget they are cops and do need them.

[@douglashoward9616]

It's kingly

[@stephend9899]

Baahaa ! There are no exceptions to the law, if so, then there is NO law !!!

[@stillraven9415]

The stupidity of some criminals is shocking, and criminals in government are amongst the dumbest.

[@AeroGuy07]

I almost shot a game warden on opening day of deer season in Indiana when I was 15 on our posted land. He was wearing his brown and tan uniform and no hunters orange. I tracked him for about 50 yards through the woods, thinking he was a deer, and he stepped into a clearing about 30 yards from my deer stand. I immediately knew it was a person so I yelled at him. We got into shouting match which got my dad's attention. When dad showed up the game warden calmed down and left after a brief lesson in etiquette, private property, and wearing hunters orange. Dad complained about the guy and he got transferred.

[@dknowles60]

no that is the way it should be

[@Hawkeye2001]

Sneaking about in large game hunting season without some high visibility clothing is a danged good way of being mistaken for game. Not saying its right to shoot without fully identifying your target, but it happens every season.

[@stevebabiak6997]

He almost got a Darwin Award …

[@victormiranda9163]

In Maine, it is not considered even manslaughter to kill someone wearing ORANGE. I think that case was some how 'special,' but not wearing Orange cap during hunting season is a lot like suicide. If I had been on the Jury, you'd have walked...

[@Moe_Posting_Chad]

@@dknowles60 No. It should have ended with one less agent of the State.

[@AwkworldStudios]

Steve, I started donating to IJ earlier this year after your recommendation and my own research into the cases they are litigating/have litigated. Please keep getting the word out there. We need to fund organizations that genuinely look out for the interests of the common US citizen.

[@streetcop157]

If you want to find turkeys go deer hunting….if you want to find deer go turkey hunting.

[@nolongeramused8135]

I usually see moose, bear, and elk while deer hunting, but hardly ever any deer.

[@gridtac2911]

apparently if you go turkey hunting you'll bag a WRA agent instead.

[@streetcop157]

@@nolongeramused8135 yeah the animals you can’t shoot will do TikTok dances in your scope

[@MattH-wg7ou]

So true. Or you'll see a gobbler strutting 50yds from the highway after spending a whole morning in the woods unsuccessfully trying to call one in!

[@AndrewBlacker-wr2ve]

I wonder... Did the state of Virginia just happen to stumble upon the trail-cam or did they somehow plan to snag it?

[@domfer2540]

I hope he wins and wins big. NO government agencies should have the right to entry private property without a warrant.

[@TheCsel]

well then they should change the law in their state.

[@kamifuujin]

​@@TheCselmy guy the law on theft is well established what the actual fuck are you talking about?

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

@@TheCsel The 4th Amendment (and entire BOR) applies to state governments as well, since the ratification of the 14th Amendment, in 1868. "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" -- the phrase 'privileges and immunities' refers directly to your rights protected in the Bill of Rights.

[@gridtac2911]

@@kamifuujin @TheCSell supports state sponsored theft of private property. Someone told me he would likely sell his own mother if there was any value in doing so, like a little more convenience in his life.

[@kamifuujin]

@@gridtac2911 dude lost his mind trying to provide cover for the government.

[@halfnelson6115]

Even if the open fields doctrine applies, does that include the trail cam and the pics on the card? Isn't the cam and the pics considered effects? They should need a warrant for the cam and to access the SD card.

[@Desirsar]

Surely they've wiped it by now. If they're not returning it, they're expecting him to put it back up. Put a few up as a replacement, and make sure they have cellular access and save the video somewhere else. Might just catch what they don't want his camera to see if they give it back.

[@MFCSTUDIOS]

Wiped/erased is almost never actually wiped/erased… the only way is to overwrite/ completely fill the storage device completely at min 7 times. If not you can most of the time recover data off a storage device.

[@ericmason349]

This case would be very interesting to know how it turns out.

[@ehsnils]

A "No Trespassing" sign could mean that this is a dangerous area for some reason. Old mineshafts, old military training areas or shooting range risk zone. So if you enter such an area and get hurt then it's on your neck.

[@mistermedic8963]

Maybe "Warning! Mines!" would work better?

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@mistermedic8963 "Achtung! Minenfeld!"

[@ehsnils]

@@mistermedic8963 Or TBE-infested ticks?

[@billmarvin3306]

The protection kicks in when you are rich enough to fence off all your property would be my interpretation

[@LeCharles07]

Donating to IJ now. It's becoming eminently clear that we need gourps like IJ and EFF more than ever now that police and corporate interests are running rough-shod over our country's foundational principles on what seems like a daily basis.

[@ScamallDorcha]

It seems like it happens on a daily basis because it does. It´s not a matter of who will let them, but a matter of who will stop them.

[@bencheevers6693]

IJ is everything the ACLU should have been and nothing that the ACLU is, ideologue degenerates

[@TheRedStateBlue]

they're cowards who only take easy slam dunk cases with a high probability of success. they won't really fight for anyone's rights.

[@ScamallDorcha]

@@TheRedStateBlue Says the guy on youtube comments. At least they are defending people from the governemnt. What are you doing? Other than talk shit on the internet while laying on your couch?

[@michaelshrader5139]

They suck. Ask me why... 😐

[@DavidColston-u2w]

Hmmmm. I have a very basic question that nobody seems to be asking: How did the game warden know the camera was there so that he could seize it unless he had already been snooping around??? And what was the probable cause and did he have a warrant so that he could be doing the snooping to begin with?

[@NativelyBornAmerican]

My late brother lived in Strasburg, VA. He had wild turkeys on his property all the time. In fact, he couldn’t get rid of them.

[@jame3shook]

This occurred in Providence Forge VA per the complaint. DWR are in Henrico County a few miles away and IJ HQ is in Alexandria VA...

[@robguyatt9602]

4:00 Hang on a minute. You say they could get a warrant to seize the trail cam. What about the fact that they found the trail cam while on the property without permission or a warrant in the first place? And why should you need to post no trespassing signs? Isn't private property inherently.....................private property?

[@jacktherack9551]

So if they come on your property and steal evidence,,what's to stop them planting evidence 🤔

[@MattH-wg7ou]

Why, their unimpeachable ethics and morals, of course! 😉 They pinky promised they wouldnt!

[@RoseKindred]

Yeah, I found out in Wis that they can enter your land without permission if there is free-standing water because you may be raising fish for food and as such you need a fishing license to take those fish on your own land. I never understand how they can search your land by foot or drone, find a "pond" and cite you for it, much less for raising your own fish to eat.

[@anonymouse14]

Since they clearly did not have legal authority to seize the camera, imagine being the defense attorney for anyone being charged based on the contents of the camera.

[@davidb4090]

Exactly it’d be tossed faster than you can say objection

[@brentfarvors192]

Easy: "Motion to exclude any, and all evidence..."

[@brandonreimer184]

They specifically use "open fields" does a wooded lot count as an open field?

[@steveladner4346]

I read an article about someone stealing a trail camera and left a note that said "thanks I needed one of these".

[@johnallenbailey1103]

😂

[@calvinduke1553]

"Effects" is defined as personal property, so how is private land not considered property and protected by the constitution?

[@ronwatkins5775]

Why not file a criminal complaint? Put them in jail as a way to make sure the message get's out there that it's illegal.

[@fix0the0spade]

No doubt Qualified Immunity would rear it's ugly head.

[@stephanreiken9912]

The government doesn't care

[@Stealth86651]

Because the court system who's job it is to hold people like this responsible are corrupt and choose not to do so, so there's effectively zero solutions to this for the average person. That's also a quick way to make yourself a target of law enforcement as well.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

there doesnt seem to be any proof.

[@ronwatkins5775]

@@scottmcshannon6821 On the camera itself. Perhaps it caught the thief.

[@stevenweishaupt8591]

I remember a similar story where they put their cameras on another person's property . The person took their cameras and they raided his home . They think they can do whatever they want . This seems like a violation of his rights . I hope he sues their balls off .

[@FatBoy42069]

actually steve the camo question is important in almost all 50 states it is illegal to wear camo whit out orange indication during hunting season in places people may hunt.

[@thecableguy1128]

Supposedly here in Louisiana the wild life and fisheries officials can kick in your door and search your house without a warrant. Just on information from someone who tells them something about you. Just think about how easy someone who doesn’t like you can make a phone call to the poachers hotline and reports you having done something wrong and you didn’t do anything wrong.

[@sv2697]

Imma call out every house in Louisiana!

[@Stop_Gooning]

Same in Michigan, if a DNR agent even THINKS you have venison that was killed without a tag *they are going in your house.*

[@TheGuruStud]

@@Stop_Gooning they'd never find the body nor forensic evidence...

[@rickymcgrath2314]

Old wives tale.

[@00M6TA]

@@Stop_Gooning The thing is, even if you have venison in your house, how can they prove it was illegally obtained? If you didn't tag it yourself, all you need is a friend who "gave" you venison.

[@rrbee]

13:00 So question... if the state has a law that no trespassing signs are good enough to stop law enforcement without a warrant, would that apply to federal law enforcement as well? Or would feds say that they are exempt from state law?

[@morrisdocking2839]

You mentioned it might have been easy to get a search warrant for the camera, but if the camera was not visible from outside the fence, how would they have known that it existed without violating the no trespassing signs? In which case, what would the search warrant be for? They can't just go in on a fishing investigation. They have to have an expectation of evidence of a crime, what evidence would they be looking for?

[@stevew1851]

Thanks Steve for your support IJ. I donate $50.00 every quarter. A great Group of people.

[@booterone1]

With the sheriff department saying the thing was taken by another agency with full knowledge and saying they would be contacted, should provide proof it was taken without permission.

[@quademasters249]

I was thinking exactly this. They knew who stole the camera and did nothing about it.

[@littlerayofsunshine69]

@booterone1 Only thing that proves is that the sheriff's department and the DWR were in collusion.

[@tabletoptaproom]

Thankyou Steve for doing the "service of angels" with your channel.

[@Vaquero4382]

Laws only apply to us subjects (yes, I said subjects) of the government, not to our overlords.

[@williamwilliams7706]

In some states, Illinois is one, purchasing a hunting, fishing or another permit grants implied permission to conservation officers to search anywhere on your property including inside your home and other structures without a warrant.

[@michigangeezer3950]

If "Open Fields" says they can go onto your property without a warrant, does that change if the property owner is standing right there telling them to leave?

[@stephenharper6638]

Valid point!

[@stevebabiak6997]

How is it “valid” to ignore the 4th Amendment?

[@michigangeezer3950]

@@stevebabiak6997 it's valid to ask where their authority ends, maybe?

[@stevebabiak6997]

@@michigangeezer3950 - the 4th Amendment, like all parts of the US Constitution, restricts government. So the open fields position that the courts have set as precedent seems to be unconstitutional IMO, and a warrant is warranted. What the open fields position should be IMO is that if an apparently illegal activity is visible when looking at the field, then probable cause exists; but the government should not traverse that open field without such readily apparent probable cause.

[@michigangeezer3950]

@@stevebabiak6997 wait until you hear about civil asset forfeiture. 😡

[@collincluff7955]

Hey Steve, I just watched your post on a Texas court, disallowing self defense testimony about a man feeding cats. For future reference, could you please identify the judge and prosecuting attorney who persues the disallowing of evidence, "BY NAME " ? So that we the people can require the legal board to investigate and review their findings and remove them from the bench ???!??

[@thatjeff7550]

Steve states SCOTUS hasn't addressed this situation because it hasn't been brought to us under these conditions. Me: I bet someone shooting a game warden on their property under the pretext that he thought they were a trespasser who ignored all of his signs would set up the condition for them to review it.

[@unbreakable7633]

You can't just shoot people on your property because they're on the property. That's still murder unless they are actually a threat, a real and immediate threat to you or your family.

[@MrBishop077]

@@unbreakable7633 scratches head: "yeah so i was testing my rifle into the back 40 .. and well aint supposed to be nobody there because of the no trespassing signs .. turns out that squirrel i saw was a game warden in full camo..."

[@Don-mi6zl]

​@@unbreakable7633The guy in camo means any reasonable person was afraid for their life.

[@thatjeff7550]

@@unbreakable7633 fine. "shoot AT"

[@gasad01374]

@@unbreakable7633 they were almost certainly armed, in full camo, while illegally hiding on somebodies property. the reason they are in full camo is because they are knowingly committing crimes on private property, which include theft, trespassing, tampering with evidence, and obstruction, there are likely more things that they could be charged with too. had somebody actually been hunting that day and the guy got shot, it would entirely be his own fault. they were enough of a threat to cause people to run away in fear for their lives.

[@jonathanwhite3507]

"State stole from man" sounds like the normal history of the government.

[@SabertoothDeathmouse]

In the case of "persons, houses, papers and effects" effects should include all types of property, real estate is a type of property.

[@russcottrill7106]

What about the use of evidence found on the stolen camera? Should it be ruled inadmissible in court??

[@fishydubsfishing6516]

I believe it's not only the theft of the camera but stealing of the pictures is a crime and viewing the pictures is also a crime I would think

[@franklyanogre00000]

Federal felonies, all of them.

[@michaelshrader5139]

As is Trespass. I have an 8 foot tall fence line and driveway gate with No Trespassing signs all over them yet TP&WD had one of their Game Wardens break into my property while I was at work in Houston, and my neighbor across the street WITNESSED them breaking my gate open and going in! Yet TP&WD refuses to acknowledge this or identify who they had break into my private property or why even. Of course, the vaunted IoJ turned me down flatly won't even talk with me on the phone they're far too busy with the case of the guy whose truck paint was scratched up by a K9 unit looking for drugs etc. etc. etc. IoJ suxs far as I can tell! Something I do not understand in Texas where I live: If I have a pond (or creek or waterway flowing thru my private property) then according to the state I can catch the fish on my private property without any fishing license (or limits!) what-so-ever.... but the deer that graze on the clover on my property and drink the water here and have their babies born here, can only be harvested if I pay the state a hunting license fee. Now, I don't believe in hunting lower life forms, and I much prefer to eat grain fed beef... but why are the deer on my private property any different than the fish on my private property? 😕 Anyone got any ideas? IF ANYBODY KNOWS OF A GOOD CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER WHO CAN PRACTICE IN TEXAS AND CAN HANDLE CASES LIKE MINE, PLEASE SEND ME THEIR CONTACT INFO... PLEASE!!! I've asked Steve and I've asked the WV Civil Rights Lawyer for any recommendations they might have but neither has replied to my e-mails... and of course IoJ turned my down flatly without even a phone call to discuss my case and why I can prove that I am in the right and had my rights trampled by TP&WD's Warden Lauren Iles and Boone (and whoever it was that they had break into my private property while I was at work, but refuse to identify).

[@fldon2306]

In Florida, Fish and Wildlife are the “Most Powerful” policing agency in the state as they can legally enter private property without a warrant by “just suspecting” poaching, etc. Guessing they’d need a warrant for a trail-cam, unless they witness illegal activity, where a cam would be evidence. In your Virginia case, I imagine a warrant would be needed to seize the camera. Don’t know VAs law with property entry.

[@mwwhited]

Steve Lehto for Supreme Count Justice!

[@jonathanjohnson8656]

I think he would be a breath of fresh air to them, however I would miss his commentary and his sharing of experience and information..

[@Timbrock1000]

I'm guessing the officials will just call the theft "civil Asset Forfeiture", and claim qualified immunity

[@RedMatthew]

Money should not be a barrier to our rights either we have them or we don't And we don't in most cases due to lack of $$$

[@gridtac2911]

nfa tax stamp is a perfect example

[@ThatGuy182545]

When the government does things like this my general assumption is that the cameras they took contain evidence of their own wrongdoing. I think the burden of proof should be on them to prove that isn’t the case.

[@gorgonbazil2652]

If anyone believes we are not in a police state is ignorant at best...

[@lasskinn474]

well the bar for that is actually pretty high globally and usa isn't even a runner up. when you have youtubers just building any old shit cars and driving them on the road, advertising shitcoins, being wooed about an ev bicycle going 30 mph (in a 20mph limit state) etc, it's kinda hard to believe that it's a police state that much. plus compared to 1960's or whatever and the shenigans they were up to then. anyway it's not technically police state if they don't actually make the laws for it. if they'd want everymans rights to walk around forests and shit as government agents or as civilians they should just pass them.

[@gorgonbazil2652]

@@lasskinn474 You missed the point, unless you already live in a communist country.. Try reading the US Constitution....

[@GorillaCrewWarGaming]

@@lasskinn474 I noticed that. You raise a valid point.

[@cobracommander9138]

@@lasskinn474 In relation to other countries we would have to wait until we are like North Korea before people will believe it. But there has been an erosion of our Civil Rights in particular the 4th Amendment. A turning point was the decision in Terry v. Ohio which happened during the Civil Rights Movement and most Americans were okay because they believed it would only apply to Blacks and not everyone else.

[@ceb1970]

Exaggerate much? Lol

[@dand3953]

Besides the encompassing virtual fence (each sign is within the sight of another sign) of "no tresspassing" signs, does not the permanently installed surveillance infrastructure of cameras throughout the 30 acres in fact extend the "curtilage" qualification of the contiguous property surrounding the home?

[@jagriffin1]

This is a result of over 200 years of giving an inch being complacent and then you lose another inch and so on.

[@honkbob]

On my property -- if me and my family feel threatened from a camouflaged trespasser on my property -- I'm not sure how fast I would go in my side x side while approaching this person directly. With no markings (obvious officer uniform) I'd sure hope this person would get out of the way. That is indeed very odd, threatening behaviour so close to a family.

[@gregmurdoch3264]

What if you had a condition that anyone who altered the location of a camera on your property was subject to X charge / day? Wouldn't that allow you to bill the government? The login being if they had asked then you could have informed them, but since they didn't, they defacto accepted?

[@miketrissel5494]

How in the world did they know there was a trail camera? You usually don't even see them when you get near them.

[@sesurin]

Love your channel Steve. You're doing a great service!

[@MishaDaBear]

Could we put an single wire 36" Electric fence wire around a 30 acre lot along with signs?

[@Salazarsbizzar]

I've always felt that in order for laes to be taken seriously by all members of society that they must be applied equally to all members of society. N9 one should EVER be above laws they impose upon another member of society or it's NOT LAW IT'S TYRANNY

[@ostlandr]

When the next Declaration of Independence is written, one of the enumerated grievances will be that "They have exempted themselves from their own just laws."

[@jservice6594]

Even if they did have a search warrant for the property, wouldn't they need a separate search warrant to examine what the camera had recorded?

[@lilwoody4789]

This exact thing happened to a friend of mine in the Carolina mountains. Game wardens snooped around many pieces of private property and pulled cards from game cameras.

[@el0blaino]

Great story and thanks for letting us know about the institute for justice

[@100forks]

Interesting that as soon as the wildlife officer got caught, he called the police to report that he had the camera. Like that makes it legal.

[@andrewalexander9492]

Side note: In Alaska the game enforcement officers are police. They are in a division of the State Troopers and are under the Department of Public Safety (Same as the state troopers)

[@KniFz]

Yea game wardens in every state are considered law enforcement. The can arrest and imprison you just like normal cops and lots of them are corrupt tyrants just like normal cops.

[@TheMicroTrak]

Game Wardens are pretty much police everywhere.

[@2olvets443]

Same here in VA now when they changed from DGIF to DWF.

[@2olvets443]

@@TheMicroTrak That maybe now, but it was not here in VA until just a few years ago.

[@maxsdad538]

In MOST states, game enforcement officers are certified peace officers.

[@estebanrivera8820]

This is why I got trail cameras that have GPS locators on them and are cellular data connected. I get photos and videos to an app on my phone and can see live video of what's going on. Even if they take the batteries out I can get a GPS location for around 4 days.

[@theyaden]

I wonder if one would get in trouble for attaching a skunk spray dispenser set to share the spray in all directions if the camera is moved without knowing how to disarm it first since it isn't a lethal or injuring trap?

[@PpVolto]

I like to say with one exeception any land that is in any form marked as private property is protected, that exeception is in search for Missing Persons or Persons that are a Danger for the Public.

[@wordforger]

Or if they get a warrant.

[@M33f3r]

In search of people a danger to the public is something they should have a warrant for.

[@ThatHomelessScrubbalo]

@8:40 Why doesnt land you own, fall under the "Effects" part of "Persons, Houses, Papers and Effects"? or even the "Houses" part... After all, your house is ON the land. it shouldnt matter if the land is 100 acres or .1 acre...

[@nelskrogh3238]

In Virginia, it has long been the assumption that game wardens can do just about anything they want without a warrant. Don't know if that is actually the way the law is written but that is generally held belief.

[@gridtac2911]

Concertina wire would resolve that fairly quickly

[@kirasmom9637]

Here's my question/comment regarding the open field law. If your "open" real property isn't protected from unwarranted search, trespass, etc. then an argument could be made that the property owner would be immune from liability in the case of injury when someone passes onto their "open field" property? How do you allow trespass without immunity?

[@mamanoneyall51]

Whats frightening is the apparent agents were wearing camouflage..kinda seems shady

[@Okie1977]

If I understand correctly, in state where you receive land owner tags you have to grant the Department of Wildlife access to your land without a warrant. I am not sure what those rights to enter allow for.