Steam Bending 1 1/2" Kiln Dried Ash, 7.5" Radius, for a Stevens-Duyrea Car Top

[@Reziac]

Just tripped over this channel... wow, so much craftsmanship being preserved. Our ancestors were amazingly creative -- remember all this stuff was invented long before industrial equipment! Hey, did you know the late Jim Gussler from Ranchester? And howdy from Billings :)

[@johnpartridge7623]

This show is so addictive & informative I've learnt a lot from watching Mr Engels at work, there is no doubt that he is highly skilled in what he does 👍

[@esseelettronica8507]

Good morning dear sir as you will know not all the donuts succeed with the hole to the first attempts. But with his experience and patience he will find the right path. Greetings from Sicily

[@mallanac]

Another good Saturday show.

[@karlhrdylicka]

Thanks Dave for including the problems and the thought process in finding the solution to correct it .There is no substitute for years of experience .

[@danbreyfogle8486]

That first bend was difficult to watch, that flaw showed up early and my inclination would have been to stop and throw it out. Yet when you explained learning from that failure it made perfect sense.

[@rodmills4071]

Now that's a steep learning curve. The music seemed appropriate as well. 🤣😂😁😀😎. Once again nice job.

[@randyhager2054]

Even though modern engineering uses metal......shrinking and stretching still come into play. Dave has to do both metal and wood and sort out the problems with each material. Good show here Dave! I'm learning something even if I never build a horse drawn vehicle.

[@cliveclapham6451]

Excellent the best l've seen explanation of steam bending👏👏👏 That sort of job is always gona throw up some kinks along the way, and you showed and explained the ho and the how, and the learn from it approach. A pleasure to watch, as always.👍👍👍👍

[@ChrisBrummitt]

The patience and experience of a craftsman to get things right. Thanks for showing us that sometimes you have to just grin and bear it to keep going even when things don’t work out.

[@bobjohnson1710]

From borax wagons and buggy wheels to wooden hardware for antique car tops, we're slowly watching you march your way through the progression of transportation technology of the last 200 years with your videos! When Stevens-Duyrea was making these bows back in the early 1900's by the hundreds, do you think they had a high rejection rate too? Thanks again Mr Engels!

[@johnsnoek9112]

Great video once again, thanks for your honesty. So many content providers would have gone straight to the last board and skipped the test ones.

[@rodneywroten2994]

I know I have said it before but it is a pleasure to watch you work. You are not afraid to tackle as many times it takes to get it right. Your video quality is awesome. Thanks for Sharing Sir

[@enricovaliant3935]

Craftsmanship, experience, reflection, material science and the patience’s of Job.

[@meldonahoo4935]

I’m a machinist and in sheet metal bending or any other metal you have stretch on the outside of the bend and compression on the inside. Somewhere about in the middle you have what engineers call the neutral axis where the material does not bend or compress. This is just food for thought but I would think that wood could handle some amount of stretch. Looks like your setup captures the length of the piece to keep any stretch from happening. Perhaps there is a sweet spot in letting just a bit of stretch so it’s not all compression. Maybe also some hot steamy rags on the bend part of the board while you get the clamping done so no cooling occurs in the compression area. Love the setup, very practice.

[@tomtruesdale6901]

Dave, another outstanding lesson in wood bending and doing it correctly not just "making it work" I sure hope the customer appreciates all the work you put into those bows.

[@polymaticsim]

In my experience, you can do everything just about right, but wood is a natural material and will do what it will whether you like it or not, great video, such a privilege to watch a craftsman at work.

[@williamjacobs236]

Another great video Mr. Engles.

[@ronwhite6719]

Hi Dave, great information on steam bending. Trial and error is how I have learned many fabrication techniques. I wat taught that wood was once a living thing and will always have many different characteristics. "Thanks for listening" to our comments.

[@ROLANDO72510]

it's all about working learnig and PASSION .All that you are thank you SIR !!!

[@brw3079]

I appreciate your philosophy of learning from your mistakes. You have to have made few to really appreciate that lesson.

[@ranchdude4345]

You OLD man are a JOY to watch.

[@albionwatts6000]

@@EngelsCoachShop nah!! OLDER

[@عبداللهحسين-خ9د3م]

شكرا على جهودك الراءعه ومعلوماتك القيمه انت دقيق جدا في عملك ياليت كل الحرفيون يحذو حذوك

[@phillollard6965]

I'll probably never need to do this ,I'll most likely never try to do this , but by god it's interesting to watch 🇬🇧

[@MrVarmitr]

I learn something new with each video and that there is always more to the story

[@rogerscottcathey]

I've had some gluing complications. Multiple clamps and special shims for applying pressure at all odd angles is a challenging but strangely satisfying task.

[@tonyl7418]

Dave, started watching your channel when you were building the Borax wagons. Have missed a video since. I find each one fascinating and consider them a learning experience. Keep up the great videos.

[@scruffy6151]

Me too very good information in each video and the quality of craftsmanship is top notch.

[@danielduncan4420]

Well there is certainly an "Art" too steam bending wood. It's entertaining too see the "impurities " or imperfections in the wood that you wouldn't normally see otherwise. Once again Mr Engels thank you for sending the video. Always look forward to seeing the next process in building techniques. Keep up the good work. 👍👍

[@drubradley8821]

I am so glad I found this channel... I really enjoy being amazed and inspired.... Thank you.

[@johnkinnane547]

Thanks for showing the way you bend wood regards John

[@scruffy6151]

Getting close to 70,000 subs good for you. You have very good channel with a lot of good information along with an eye for details. To bad you got a bad board but, you still used it for practice. As i have said before thank you for letting us watch you work even the bad parts.

[@garrettswoodworx1873]

@@EngelsCoachShop But so many KZbin "experts" skip that to look good. Thank you for letting us learn from those moments as well.

[@BigRock804]

Hi: I know what you are talking about when you said that part of the board was harden. I have run into that problem several times with some Quarter Sawn White Oak. One time I had to send back to the supplier a little over 125 board feet of 4/4 material and the supplier replaced it. The supplier said that were having with the steam and heat on some. The new wood was fine. At the price of material you have to watch this problem. I also think it makes Quarter Sawn material hot stay straight when you are ripping it. Thank you again for sharing you are a great teacher.

[@rtkville]

Another great video! Thank you Dave!

[@scottrhoades9056]

Great video antique car and Dave fixing them too!

[@markkeehr9634]

I have done a little wood bending in the past and also talked to a craftsman in the Amana colonies many years ago that was doing some interesting steam bending. I found out from him (he was bending black walnut for chair arms) that a little fabric softener in the water used for steam helped soften the fibers and make them more pliable. I tried it on some much smaller cross section of white oak than you are using, but it did seem to help the bending. Good luck on the next couple of bows. Can't wait for next weeks video. Those two monster wheels (maybe 6 foot tall) in the background also look like an interesting project.

[@warrencraig6948]

i know a cart from a horse that's about all know about what you do but i know a great trades man when i see one.

[@jamescrisafulli2140]

Jim Crisafulli Dave, You are my favorite pass time. I so enjoy watching you do what you do. I think your an amazing craftsman with the patience of Jobe. I see you use Makita tools. I have a corded Makita drill that needs a new home. I have had it for about 40 years. If you think you can use it I will send it along. Let me know.

[@Ujeb08]

looking good so far Dave. I think I can make sense why that last(4th) bend worked better. I'm used to bending metals but it's pretty much the same. In fact I used to do analysis in the lab on different areas of the bend. There are 3 planes within a bend. The outer radius which is under tension (wants to stretch), the inner radius is under compression, and the center is the neutral plane. Of course the thicker the material, the more extreme these areas act. So in the 4th bend you left the bottom form clamps off until the wood was pulled and :stretched around the form most of the way and then you applied the clamps . I can appreciate how you learned from each go at it, but you even anticipated that you would need a few tries to figure it all out. I like the way you think! Thanks for sharing.

[@FrBobLaceySD]

Thanks again for "coaching" us in the art of steam bending. I find your shares very informative!

[@richardmilliken9377]

Very interesting Dave, I especially appreciate your showing the failed attempts as well as the perfect ones. Thanks again for sharing these!

[@CharlesHood55]

I know that Ash will bend consistently in a tight radius like you are using in stock 1-1/12” thick. We did it in the boatyard I worked at in Florida. The trick is to get “air dried” stock. The process of kiln drying case hardens the lumber causing the hard spots we saw in the first bend. The bows you were working with looked very old and were probably made before kiln drying. If you can find the stock, give it a try, it will save you a lot of time and material.

[@rockydavies9555]

sir you do some beautiful work

[@RickOshay...]

I'm always getting educated here... Bravo Mr. Dave...

[@richardmattingly7000]

One clue might be that your steam box may be cooler near its door than the other end since its problem seemed to have occurred more at that location unless the stock was flipped end to end while heating. Checking with a laser infra thermometer gun when the stock comes out might reveal if its occurring or even on the box itself as most only have steam coming in at one point instead of its entire length. What a stock can or won't do is often only revealed when it's being drawn into the shape and steaming a piece is more a matter of experience and an art form of sorts than just repetition.

[@normcaldwell5168]

In my experiences one do-over was my limit. A new motto: the 4th time will be perfect, Thanks

[@TimNevins]

Great to see the troubleshooting process. Your other bending videos made it look too easy!

[@wilkuyf1559]

Thanks for sharing and take care. 👍

[@mikedudley3053]

A fascinating peek at yesteryear yet again, thanks Dave.

[@petepeterson4540]

always wondered about those marks on bows now I know Master thank you for teaching me.

[@steveskouson9620]

David, you REALLY do go the extra mile(s.) Great job. It seems I could watch you work all day. But, I've finally found a KILLER job, cleaning and refurbishing woodworking equipment. If you ever want a Byrd head for that 20 inch Grizzly planer, I now know how to replace them. Just did the Yellow (Powermatic) version. My brother has the same Green planer you do, and he wanted me to see how difficult the switchover is. (I think the Green one is the most popular planer on the Tube. steve

[@mountainviewturning5319]

Very nice video like the way you steam bend

[@olddawgdreaming5715]

Looking good, I wish they had better plans for you. I’ll bet you make it work for them though. Thanks for sharing with us.

[@paulstanding7267]

Hi Dave nice vlog and bending technique some pre dried timber is sometime over dried ,along it not bend as easily on the grains ( we bent timber for tug boats ) it is very frustrating when grain folds but loved the end result 😀👍👍

[@darinb3524]

Thanks again Dave

[@aserta]

Nearly missed this episode, that would've been a shame, because it was a treat to watch. :D

[@jckay5087]

On the closeups of the original bows, it looks like material had been carved out of the inside radius, making compression much less of a issue there. I wouldn't be surprised of the original makers carved much of that compression material out first, then bent the bows afterwards. The bending jig would probably be a bit more elaborate to support the inside radius, but it would have given much more consistent results, necessary for production. Likely, a static tabletop jig that the workers quickly inserted the freshly soaked/steamed piece into, along with a supporting backstrap, then bent it around the jig, and left it to dry. Also, for production, it would have been much faster to pre-carve or plane the inside radius on a straight board, rather than a curved one. As an experimental airplane builder, I know that's what was done by many of the wood aircraft manufacturers of the time, and likely the production techniques would have been copied.

[@MrLikeke]

Here is a very good example of why to avoid kiln dried lumber for steam bending. I'm wondering if improper use of stickers during the kiln process the wood caused the 'work hardened' spot. In any case, for hardwoods I seek to avoid kiln dried as much as possible.

[@isbcornbinder]

I am number 35 this week. Good stuff.

[@tibfulv]

I don't know if you've seen Tips From a Shipwright's videos on bending boards in a plastic bag right where it's bent. Seems handy, and might help with the folding problems.

[@glenncerny8403]

That heavy frame with the red wheels in the background looks like a real interesting project.

[@davidconaway2830]

Given the price of Ash lumber today, I'm glad the second board worked out for you.

[@MyOLD36chevy]

My 1936 pickup has wood pillars as support for the doors and windshield and they very hard to replace because each car and truck is hand made at the factory. One of the members of the 1936ChevyOwners web site used tube steel to replace the structural wood. Tube steel can be bent just like wood.

[@bristol8920]

.....shipwright stuff now Mr Engels, days gone by I worked steaming timbers for wooden trawlers and at times put the timbers in the water for a 2/3 days to make them waterlogged, also found freshly cut timber known as green timber was also easier to steam and work with........ ............................

[@darryllcrook376]

Could the friction between the wood and the former be contributing to the isolated folds on the compression side? If the interface was more slippery, would that lead to more uniform shrinkage?

[@63256325N]

Thanks.

[@steamfan7147]

"Case Hardening" IIRC is the term for that particular kiln drying defect. It comes from green lumber being placed in a hot kiln, or too much heat being applied too quick during the kiln cycle. The outer fiber bands of a plank dry and shrink first,before those in the center. As a result the outer bands contract and stretch to conform to the inner wetter bands. Then once the inner bands dry, they tend to pull away from the outer bands and form voids . I had a whole bunk of Red oak where that had occurred once, sadly it's pretty much firewood at that point.

[@MrLikeke]

It seems like it was circa the early 1980s that kiln drying was vastly sped up (higher pressure/less time) from prior to that time. This has resulted in less usable lumber as you unfortunately found.

[@oliviermalige3279]

Have you try to play with the thickness off the wood in the bending's areas to allow an easier compresion? Thanks for sharing!! Cheers from France!

[@johnthorogood6601]

Well winter ic coming, least you'll use the lumber to keep warm!

[@rc300xs]

Interesting it’s always the right side that didn’t compress evenly or has a hard spot. Maybe something with the oven. Looks like it will work.

[@Crewsy]

Rc As Dave mentioned he was thinking it was one spot along the board that he cut the strips from so unless he rotated the strip end for end then the bad spot would continue to be on the right side.

[@builtrodewreckedit]

its a shame the useful sides (good bends) couldn't be cut and jointed together. I wonder how it would bend if the ends were bandsaw cut in where the bend starts. steam the wood and apply glue between the slices and bend it up? it would be like bending two thinner boards instead of one thicker and allow the wood to not need as much compression because the two pieces could slip at the glue joint?

[@hafizahmohdrawi5057]

Terbaik keta kuda era cowboys duluX di amerika...

[@RichardHeadGaming]

I bow to your Bow bending patience.

[@beefchicken]

Could the form be causing problems? Is the bow “sticking” to the form, restricting its ability to compress? In other words, as the bend progresses, when the wood comes in contact with the form it can’t compress further, so all of the compression has to happen toward the end of the bow, those forces build up and it buckles. If it could slide on the form, the compressive force might redistribute a bit so that further compression could happen in the material already in contact with the form.

[@tedfarwell9812]

Hi Dave- Is steam bending ash rate sensitive at all? In other words, does it help to bend a little more slowly in tight corners? Thanks for another great video!

[@WilliamTMusil]

I am sure that one piece steamed bows are necessary in this case. Wondering structurally though if building a laminated bow would result in a stronger finished product. I don't mean for this car of course, just thinking if we needed to make this today without a historical precedent, would that change the choice from a single piece vs a laminated glue up?

[@Jo_Kuiper]

In my language (Dutch) your surname means the language you speak, aka Engels means English. BTW my surname in your language means cooper, it's Kuiper, aka a barrel maker. I like your clips very much, you're an allround craftsman, and I like that you do a lot of your work free hand, meaning by experience knowing how much to take away or add.

[@barrywinters1142]

Would it help to saw some shallow notches in the inside radius? I really do appreciate your skill and dedication

[@casycasy5199]

how do you charge the client for them .since you had to do the one bow 4 times do you charge him for that

[@jayreiter268]

The other bows I have seen you form were more of a continuous bend therefore a much larger radius.

[@jimharris4013]

I noticed that you put the bar clamps on after you started the bend, not before like the first 3. That means the wood was hotter when you started the bend.

[@duanelundgren7985]

I am mesmerized watching the Handiwork take shape! Thanks, Mr. Dave!! Someday we'll see sled runners take shape, no doubt! :-)

[@duanelundgren7985]

@@EngelsCoachShop AHhh, You know about cats and BAGS!! :-)

[@johnday7362]

Great video, I like to see your failures. It helps me realize that it could happen to anyone. Mr. Engles. Does the speed of the bending process effect the board folding? I understand that the board must be bent while still hot, but might a slower bend result it a more even wood folding in the board?

[@brucewrandol]

I have a question to ask. On the first board you cut you had 3 smaller boards cut. Question? - - would the 3rd board given you more info for your next board if you had of swap the 3rd board end for end would it given you more info to do your final bows?

[@brucewrandol]

Is it possible where 1 end bent great to use the some joinery in the middle of the bow? Customers might not approve but for use for yourself be allowable. It could be real expensive to keep trying and trying if it is for self use.

[@hectormcarmonadiaz9184]

Thank you again.

[@ranchdude4345]

How much setup time do u have before the wood is to cold to bend properly Mr. Dave.???

[@PeterWMeek]

I have heard that kiln drying makes lumber less suitable for steam bending. The heat "sets" the lignin or something like that.

[@PassionforWoodworking]

As always enjoyed your content.

[@notsoserious0944]

Haha! That is exactly how I bend steel conduit at work. Well, I don't use steam and it isn't beautiful ash but it can wrinkle and it does need a little tweaking.

[@MrLikeke]

Mr. Engels, by 'grain deviation' do you mean grain run-out where the grain 'runs out' of the milled surface?

[@smasica]

Just a thought, but what about laminating two thinner pieces together for each bow? I would think that they'd be less likely to crumple and compress on the inner arc.

[@garrettswoodworx1873]

Not authentic to the period and authenticity is one of the things he is known for.

[@Garth2011]

Interesting "tree" or kiln process. Would it make a slight positive approach to have a moisture barrier between the subject wood and the form in hopes any moisture "leaks" stay with the subject wood? I have to side with you on the term bending apparatus !

[@jimc4731]

Coincidental or not that the failure was at the same place in all bends. Wondering could there be something with the mold? Are both molds exactly symmetrical? JIM

[@jayreiter268]

Would they accept a laminated bow? It would be stronger and the individual plies would form to that radius

[@Garth2011]

Yes true but will it be period authentic for the project and the customers specification. We could presume it has to be from solid wood since he is on his fourth try.

[@glencrandall7051]

My question too.

[@donniebrown2896]

The first rocker I made I laminated the curved runners as I didn't have a way to steam the wood. I kept all the cuts orented the same as when I cut them. No one noticed until I told them. But as this is a restoration I doubt the laminate would be acceptable.

[@jacilynns6330]

just a question but would pouring some boiling water on the spots you want to compress just before it compresses help in any way? Yes i know its steam bent but steam bent wood is still fairly dry. the difference between dry and wet steam i guess.

[@larryshaw796]

How do you think synthetic lumber would work in this application, just acthought.? Thanks.

[@tom7601]

I wonder if it would hold its shape after bending.

[@donniebrown2896]

Plastic or MDF? Need to remember this is a restoration of a rare vehicle not a rat rod

[@philmenzies2477]

I've never steam bent timber before. But I'm in the process of replacing some bentwood frames on a boat. Have you, or do you, ever experience some relaxation in the bends after several days drying?

[@ranchdude4345]

Mr. Dave, did you leave the # 4 bend in the steam box a little longer this time then the others.

[@colemanadamson5943]

One knew the first board had a flaw but (and please explain why this wouldn't work) couldn't the board just had pressure added from another direction? Stop so much at the cable end and have a jack (or whatever) pushing on the wood just below the flaw. Why wouldn't that work? ( I figure it won't because he didn't do it but why? )

How do you charge for such a job? You have to make one off forms and then there is the lumber that will not bend properly and the time wasted with the lumber that does not bend correctly. Also here in the UK Ash trees are dying from a fungal attack a soon as they reach a certain age they just die. How plentiful is Ash and do you have the same problems in the USA?