Steel Ball VS Crash Cymbal Sounds Like

Researching how I can make Steel Balls Dropping on Cymbals sound good.
Support Wintergatan:
- Patreon ► / wintergatan
- KZbin membership ► bit.ly/4cQVM7C
Marble Machine Engineering Discord Server:
/ discord
Video edited By Martin and Hannes from the Trainerds KZbin Channel:
/ trainerds
-
PATREON ► / wintergatan
KZbin MEMBERSHIP ► bit.ly/4cQVM7C
WINTERGATAN RECORDS ► www.wintergatan.net/#/shop
SPOTIFY ► bit.ly/2oKxXWd
ITUNES ► apple.co/2ntWNsZ
ENGINEERING DISCORD ► / discord
COMMUNITY DISCORD ► / discord
-

[@Trainerds]

If you want more truth bombs, subscribe to Trainerds❤️ /Hannes

[@iamgrays]

lol!!! However in this case I disagree. I like the sound from the drumstick and I happy to see a marble 'play' the drumstick.

[@joshuachan6317]

What if Martin is taping the rubber/ foam onto the cymbal instead? So marble hits on these pads on the cymbal instead of the metal Idk how much would that affect the sound tho :

[@Trainerds]

Hannes3500 - Troublemaker!

[@Kickdrumsnare]

COAT THE EDGE OF THE CYMBALS WITH LATEX

[@SirCavas]

@@joshuachan6317 It would definitely affect the sound, I don't think it would sound good anymore

[@sergiyrybas4512]

Your mom was absolutely right about playing the guitar 😆

[@waitingman]

Yes! More guitar-playing transitions and banter with Hannes makes it very enjoyable to watch

[@Isenlyn]

It's rare that a comment starting by "your mom" is nice, and I agree with it. ^^

[@Talaxianer]

@ 4:44

[@jeanlebel5979]

could'nt agree more a bit of muisic creation in each video is good for us and for you (gitar or piano or other intrument)

[@Trainerds]

I know right, Lena is the best! I’ll make sure to remind Martin about the guitar as well ;) /Hannes

[@cleopoulin598]

As long as a marble falls and bounces for each channel the visual effect Hannes is talking about will be maintained. The drumstick actually adds more mechanical movement for the eye to marvel at while ensuring better sound. It's the obvious choice.

[@giuliomagri8910]

I get your point but it might be just as mesmerizing having different marbles like the rubber with steel core or wooden marbles (with or without a steel/lead core)...

[@Ipwnpwnage1337]

Agreed. Plus the variable spring tension could be controlled by a Bowden cable like many other things on the machine, which to me is MUCH simpler than having a separate marble system for each different type of marble that would play a different tone on the cymbal.

[@jonhansson5199]

I sort of feel there should be only one type of marble. Doing everything all over the instruments. Not different sizes and materials

[@xymaryai8283]

all three ideas here are good, some are more complicated, but all are workable unlike the magnet marble lift

[@Kickdrumsnare]

Coat the cymbal edges in latex - SOLVED.

[@azriel5]

Martin and Hannes bantering about the cymbal and then roasting the viewers at the very end had me cracking up lol! we need more hannes in these videos

[@ThatRedHead717]

"I don't give a shit what the audience thinks"😂😂 genuinely hilarious but also super important. This is YOUR machine. Make what YOU want. You can never satisfy everyone so focus on satisfying your own need to create and drive for this project. Create something excellent Martin. We believe in Your vision.

[@natebit8130]

"That makes my ears bleed. Let's try a larger marble!" - Martin

[@skyro656]

Same vibes as "well that's a lotta damage. How about a little more?"

[@user-ev4ev3gh3r]

Include the stick 100%. It's way cooler to see the marble machine "manipulating a drumstick" than just having the marble fall on the cymbal, especially if it's only on the ride.

[@AFrickinDwarf]

There’s a novelty to it just being on the Ride that adds to the charm

[@anonymeister123]

Exactly what I was thinking. It’s still powered by the marble, which is cool

[@dascandy]

Marble powered Rube Goldberg machine that makes awesome music. More moving parts is better, not worse.

[@yymok]

"I don't give a shit about the audience." I actually like that attitude. It proves that you are an artist.

[@JuhaBaxton]

This was an absolute unexpected twist as Martin answered the Question "What does the audience think?" I was 100% sure the answer will be "Let us know in the comment section !!!" - But Martin did give his truth - "I don't give a shit about the audience section!"- Boom, AND HE IS RIGHT - we want to see Martins machine not a machine everybody agrees on! Nobody will like a machine everybody agrees on, cause it will be average - but Martin want's to die on the hill where the machine will sound musical - so he can't give a shit about anybody else - Martin, right path - keep going!

[@DoodleChaos]

Your mom is right, shoehorn guitar into EVERY VIDEO pls

[@Piplup7575]

absolutely 🙏

[@lenamolin5280]

I am happy he listened to me

[@KingOfRedPlays]

The legendary Doodle has spoken! We must have guitars always. Can't wait for you to find something else of his to sync into another mind-breaking video.

[@billkeithchannel]

Mom is always right. When not, see Dad. He will tell you she is always right.

[@tornoutlaw]

@@lenamolin5280 Thank you Lena!

[@jrat104]

"I don't give a shit what they think" this is what I was wanting to hear. Go for it. If you don't follow your vision you should have just made MMX work. V3 is supposed to be the culmination of what YOU know. Follow your path. I'll be here with you.

[@thomasbecker9676]

You *do* realize you're the audience, right? He's saying he doesn't give a shit what you think.

[@Tomacose]

@@thomasbecker9676 He shouldn't give a shit about what we think. It's his machine, we are just here for the show. Hearing out suggestions is another thing completely, and Martin has been listening to suggestions both good and bad.

[@matiascampbell2464]

​@thomasbecker9676 you're repeating this pretty much everywhere, did what he say hit a chord, what he said is true its his machine not yours. He never said we don't matter in the way your reference, his video series is proof of the opposite, the truth is He listens to what we have to say, but is ultimately up to him if he implements it on not because as he said, its his machine, his creation, his emotional attachment, his life's work, and one of the things he's not going to compromise on is the quality of sound, he doesn't want to offend the fans with terrible music afterall. But if your hurt about him saying he's not going to compromise on this, then I've got to ask are you a fan or a self-inserter, in other words do you come here to support Martin, or do you come here to tell Martin to make the machine your way... dont awnser, your previous comment that you've spammed everywhere has already given me the answer. Martin if your reading this you are doing great, sound is obviously not a compromise, it's an instrument afterall. Delete Delete delete, delete the parts that are not required for good music, the flair, the extra Im going to use a piano as an example, a piano is only as complex as it needs to be, it only needs one piece removed and that note won't work, or play in the intended way, in other words it's as complex as it needs to be. Simplify has never meant compromise on the fundamental mechanics, it means to remove the flair, remove the extra uneeded cool, those can always be added later. I hope this helps Martin, but I might have been a bit of a hypocrite by saying this.

[@jrat104]

@@thomasbecker9676 yup. I know what I said

[@thomasbecker9676]

@@Tomacose That's a very submissive way to be...

[@janberentsen9890]

Your mom is so right about playing guitar in each episode. You're just incredible at music. Few other 'things' have resonated as much with me as your music. And although all the engineering is so cool, I can't wait untill the marble machine is finished, and we get more beautiful, full songs.

[@NeonNijahn]

More Hannes for sure! It's nice to see you working with someone who has such positive energy and provides an alternative point of view while still being super supportive of you.

[@Paralda]

I like the marbles hitting the stick, it's pretty neat.

[@iamgrays]

Me too and I am happy to see a marble hit the drumstick rather than the drum.

[@kevinarchambault3271]

marble hitting thing which hits thing is still instrument. Theramin for example has no contact, still instrument. That which makes music is the Instrument, marbles on strings/bagpipes/Rube Goldberg machines/Pads for drumstick, mechanically sound to me is more important. Marble does the work, hits the thing with hits the thing, still showy, why need contact?

[@Schmidtelpunkt]

@@iamgrays The movement of the stick would look better than just another marble falling. I'd not try to hit it over the instrument though, but instead use a longer stick. This would make catching the marble easier, adding a further advantage to the method.

[@MrRoxmj]

Cymbal is swinging after marble hit. So each next marble will bounce in unpredictable direction (rubber marbles even more so). If to fix cymbal hard, this distort sound for sure. Drumstick has fixed (one-axle-movement) position. So marbles will bounce mostly in one direction. It has more nature sound. Why not?

[@secondengineer9814]

Martin aged 88: "You know, I just think we need to bring back the mechanical fingers"

[@HadynLander]

Your mum is absolutely right about playing guitar - or playing keys, bowing a saw, rocking the modulin, etc. Any musical noise from you is always a pleasure! I'm also glad to hear you defend your vision - it's what brought us here in the first place, after all. Finally, that ending is the hardest I've laughed all week. Thank you :D

[@violetfactorial6806]

Your journey is a lot of fun to watch, as I'm sure you know well. The recent re-examination of your motivations and goals for the next machine was especially satisfying. Engineering and art are both cool and interesting, but they can clash. The struggle in getting them to synergize is fascinating to watch, and that's why your content shines imo. Plus you're a good storyteller

[@gavinbarrett7890]

As drummer I have a few suggestions/points! 1) I would suggest very small marbles for a ride cymbal. A ride cymbal played with the tip of the stick is not often a stroke with a heavy impact and a high volume. I think you will get a cleaner, more realistic sound out of a much smaller marble. 2) If you're wanting a bit more wash in the cymbal, I would suggest playing close to the edge with something heavy and dampened like the rubber balls but ultimately that is a sound you want to create with a crash cymbal. Keep in mind that often times, a ride is played with the stick tip hitting the top of the cymbal. Many other cymbals (and sometimes the ride) are played with the stick coming down at an angle on the edge of the cymbal. That makes a very big difference. 3) Perhaps the simplest answer is to find the cymbals that sound best with marbles rather than trying to make something sound good on the first cymbal you grabbed. 4) Be sure to factor in the speed of notes played on the cymbal and the amount of movement of the cymbal. Sticks will need to be able to retract very quickly and both solutions will need to not create a lot of movement in the cymbal to have a consistent sound and a consistent marble bounce!

[@davidpardy]

Great advice. For Martin's use, thin and light cymbals will most likely work best as they require less energy to create their best sound. Thin cymbals also have a darker tone, which means you can use smaller cymbals to raise the pitch - e.g., a 14" crash as opposed to 17". I do think that for the ride cymbal the stick will still be the best option, but I'm sure Martin will need to choose where he's going to compromise

[@mackit]

In terms of using different marbles, there are also many materials that span the divide between soft bouncy balls and hard steel balls. There are also hollow balls, and even composite balls used for sports like field hockey, which are plastic with a cork core.

[@238Atrox]

@@mackit possibly a ball from those old computer mice? they are heavy, and already coated in rubber.

[@FZs1]

One possible issue with rubber-coated marbles is that they may jam up in the marble tracks when they are contacting each other, because of the higher coefficient of friction of rubber.

[@Joseph125]

Great call on finding the cymbals that sound best with marbles. Don't get me wrong I love the weird and wonderful mechanisms, but I don't see them being as tight and consistent as using different cymbals.

[@DrewLind_]

I like the Bass functionality because even though it's NOT marbles playing directly on it, there is a Whimsy and artistry to the solution. Maybe if there is a visually aesthetic version of the drumstick it would capture the Wonder and Whimsy you are seeking.

[@BossitroniuM]

I’ve come to second this. Making the drumstick more fun will not sacrifice quality but add visual appeal. Monkey brain like to see marble go whoosh.

[@fesworks]

I thought the previous cyberbass was awesome! I want marbles on instruments.

[@Grombags]

Seriously, this has been my favourite video on this channel for ages! So many reasons to recommend it: 1. Martin playing some guitar music because his mum told him he should! (Excellent work Martin's mum!) 2. Some clearly explained options showing the decision process in action and allowing us to understand his reasoning. 3. Hannes 3000+ (he deserves another upgrade) and his brilliant, honest and well delivered opinions that so many of us could identify with 4. Hannes (again!) for his understated comedic genius! "Boringer" will now feature in my own vocabulary. 5. The joyful banter between Martin and Hannes, seeing how much Martin values Hannes' opinion but still sticks with his own preferences. 6. The final admission from Martin that he doesn't really care what any of us think about his design decisions - and indeed why should he care about the opinions of all us random strangers who have no real idea about what he is trying to do. It is as he says 'his machine'. I've re-watched the ending of this a few times now and completely agree that he shouldn't care what his audience thinks with regard how he designs this machine. He may be interested in the suggestions of professional designers, engineers, musicians that might be helpful but he really doesn't need to concern himself with what an audience thinks they want to see. Personally, I'm all for this new sense of determination and focus. I would add to his mother's recommendation though - please use any instrument to play some music in every video, it doesn't just have to be guitar seeing as he has so many options! I'd love to see Martin getting back into playing music again.

[@magnuswinther9019]

Loved the hang-out vibe of the last conversation there! It sounds like you know what you want. Make it sound good in the simplest and most fun way possible. That seems to be more motivating for you - to get it done and make music and shows for the world to share in. Getting it sounding good, working well and delivering on an experience of fun and excitement, captivating and mesmerising all!

[@Nooticus]

agreed

[@n9ghtb9k5r]

I dont give a sh*t, we need more Hannes and guitar playing in the videos!

[@Trainerds]

I’ll do what I can, with both requests ;) /Hannes

[@EdwinWiles]

Marbles are good. Good sound is better. Stick is good solution. Different marble sizes are bad, it brings complexity; different marble types (wood, rubber, etc) is worse. Keep It Simple. Drumstick is best option for good sound with least complexity.

[@GustavoOliveira-hq2dr]

You could look into different solutions that could keep the machine simple. What I'm worried about is that although these drumsticks are capable of enduring a beating they will fail and because you have built a system that will make them always hit exactly the same way as they did last time it could make them fail even faster. So what could be the different solutions that could preserve the marble's simplicity? - Different size cymbals - Dampening - Different mounting material - Having the cymbal in an enclosure

[@Nooticus]

This is undoubtedly one of your best videos in ages. Way more practical, honest and open. Keep them like this Also, your mum was absolutely right, hearing you improvise every so often makes this videos so much better. And wow! Hannes looks so good, props to him :)

[@brianknow9142]

I'm okay with the drum stick as long as you can see the marbles hit the stick. Need to see the movement.

[@bandaid007jl]

I agree, the experiment doesn't leave much to be desired visually. when the machine is in running order I believe this system would look just as good as direct marble contact

[@pepsi2069]

it could look even cooler if you had a second drum stick on the other side, positioned just as if a drummer were sitting behind it. The drumstick actually provides MORE visual feedback as you see the marble drop AND the drumstick move to produce the sound. Drumstick gets my vote.

[@ssl3546]

Absolutely loved the guitar interlude, wish we heard more of your music

[@koakie1]

more guitar interludes from scene to scene.

[@NeonNijahn]

Thanks Martin's mom! You raised an incredible person. Martin has helped me get through a lot with his videos, and helped me see the joy in the good times as well. ❤

[@lapointdaniel]

You’re welcome!

[@reinoutspanjers8562]

Everything is so heartfelt with your video's! Since the first wintergatan Wednesday's it's amazed me how much love and attention you invest into making this not clearly defined project "work". But the thing that actually makes it work for us is all the effort, grind, chemistry between you and Hannes, you and Mr. Wilson, the machine and everything you're learning along the way. And then as a super amazing bonus there's also some engineering, designing, music to the side?!?! Wow! Keep up the work guys! So good! Always 😘

[@iamjacksnick]

Personally, I think it is fun to see different mechanical movements to make the machine play. If it was all marbles hitting instruments it would be like dominos that do nothing but fall one against the other. Variation can add more the experience visually and improve the music quality!

[@MinimumViablePicnic]

Definitely agree

[@Phriedah]

Exactly. Variation can ADD to the artistry of the thing. He could have 4 drumsticks playing on different parts of the ride cymbal for different sounds, and you can't tell me that that is less exciting than marbles falling in 4 different places (it's worth considering that marbles can't reliably fall on the middle of the ride cymbal without rolling down the outside and causing all kinds of unwanted noise, the drumsticks are much more precise.)

[@helenaap2042]

Yeah! Any design should have their creative resources showcased in different ways

[@pladselsker8340]

"I don't give a shit about [what] the audience [thinks]. Ahem, I mean, I do love them... but I just don't give a shit, [it's] my machine." Unironically the most motivational stuff I've heard in a while!

[@thomasbecker9676]

As long as the audience is paying his bills, right? You *do* realize you're the audience, right? He's saying he doesn't give a shit what you think.

[@fringd]

@@thomasbecker9676 i respect not wanting to compromise on your dream that you've put years of your life into. even if your audience wanted you to. also i don't want him to ^_^

[@Dx_Ach]

means he dosnt like it when hes held accountable and is going to get lost in the same design loop that caused the other one to fail. No need to produce something when he is making a lot of money already. When its finished that all stops.

[@olin9310]

@@Dx_Ach All the hours of entertainment, and personal development, vicarious learning I have done through Martin's content and community over the years. Yeah, I'm not watching for a finished marble machine. That's like saying it's about the destination, not the journey. You should stop watching and just get a ticket to the show when it is scheduled? Not sure what to say. He filled a museum with bright young children making instruments, music, getting engineering degrees. Adults, teens, people who have grown up with him and the journey. Of course he loves his audience, his community, but also he built it himself with passion and love for what he is doing. Has he not created something far larger and more valuable than any one machine could ever? The machine is a goal, but it is only a means to put his heart and soul into something that he shares a core interest with the audience about. That is true artistry, and some would say the secret to a life well lived.

[@thomasbecker9676]

@@fringd Lol, "dream."

[@CherryLax]

Really loved the commentary on this one. There are so many variables to solve and lots of contemplating to be done

[@EpicCreepuh]

I know everyone here wants a marble machine but i found you from and adore your music. I just want more wintergatan songs that sound as good as the songs you made before

[@IsaacDaBoatSloth]

when the ball is so heavy it removes the cymbal

[@Phriedah]

That's the finale of the show. Bowling balls drop from the ceiling and destroy the whole machine

[@srenhaandbk7904]

single use cymbal

[@joaomrtins]

That's what she said hahahahahahahahahaha

[@dascandy]

The only step missing was a 300mm marble at the end.

[@rikschaaf]

That honest talk there at the end was very valuable. It's not just Martin throwing ideas into the void and waiting for responses in the comments or on the Discord. It's a great live discussion regarding the pros and cons of both approaches, where you can see the pragmatist and the perfectionist in Martin clash.

[@propertystuff7221]

"I don't give a shit what they think when it comes to my machine." GOOOOD!!! Let's never forget that core requirement that the machine must be what you want to write music for! A famous musician once said, "Don't ever create music for what you think the audience wants instead of what you want. Your audience was initially drawn to you because you were true to your passion, and they could feel that. They'll feel it if you ever abandon your passion." The options you present all have merit, so maybe do a weighted decision chart? Me, I'd be leaning toward the stick. Sounds way better, looks cooler IMO, and doesn't look like it adds all that much more complexity for the benefits. You trouble-shot away the downsides in seconds with glue and foam.

[@mpmyprojects6687]

7:04: YESSS! Exactly my thoughts on how Martin now tries to build a almost perfectly automated orchester instead of a machine that`s dropping marbles on instruments. I guess the magic of the first two machines came from the fact that those compact machines were able to play music in an enchanting way with all its drawbacks. If I want to see a band playing perfectly I go and see a band, but I was looking forward to see a marble machine.

[@slashcammas]

Going to quote another one of my favorite youtubers, cityplannerplays: "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

[@iansun42]

This is art, not a municipal airport

[@NeonNijahn]

​@iansun42 this is a Wendy's.

[@lapointdaniel]

That’s awesome. Which fortune cookie did you pull that out of?

[@JiggleboneJones]

I liked the extra layer of the marbles hitting the drumsticks to hit the cymbals! its like adding another step to a rube goldberg machine, theres more going on. You could even have multiple different drumsticks over different parts of the same cymbal to get different sounds, and have the marbles bounce off the drumsticks at different interesting angles.

[@Kickdrumsnare]

I am a member now - COAT THE EDGES OF THE CYMBALS WITH LATEX.

[@bamx23]

The discussion between you two at the end of this video was really nice touch. If it was a podcast I would definitely listen it!

[@_captainjack_7138]

I really liked this mix of experimenting and casual/informal open discussion of concepts and plausibility. It was quite enjoyable.

[@johannsens]

Hannes you ARE perhaps able to put some sense into Martins head, that the visuals is just as important (or even more important) than the endless pursuit of the machine having the ability to play super ultra perfect tight music almost down to a picosecond.

[@timojissink4715]

The thing is they are both equally right. Hannes his marks are very important points, but Martin should be able te be proud of his machine and play real music with it. I'dd say investigate a bit more on different kind of marbles, like the one with the rubber. And if not able, then default to the drum stick.

[@viniciuscollaco]

You guys do not understand that the previous machines do not play well how we listened in the videos, prob in live the sounds was terrible.

[@ElwoodGaming]

Two things that we say in Manufacturing Engineering on a daily basis. 1. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good 2. Beware of scope creep Been watching from the sidelines, so I don't comment often, and I remember seeing the OG marble machine a long time ago. I was mesmerized by the ingenuity and creativity. It didn't matter to me how the sound was coming across, it still sounded wonderful. Hannes has a point, but I do agree the marbles on the cymbal are too aggressive. Either way, the entire project is amazing, keep up the great work.👍

[@oldschoolman1444]

The end was too funny! I like Martin's attitude, and your mom is right. 🎸

[@GudasWorld]

I'm still in the camp of waterfall of marbils on a cymbal hard hat. Martin dancing under the cascde of steel. Priceless.

[@tincantoy4441]

As a drummer, one of the best (and most expensive) parts is finding the right cynbal sound! Try experimenting with different cymbals with different weights as well! There are also sticks with different tips such as nylon and rubber, so experimenting with all the different things will get you pretty much near unlimited possibilities!

[@mmseng2]

"I don't give a sh--about what the audience thinks". Love that about you Martin. Never change.

[@AndersAstrand]

I agree completely with Hannes that dropping marbles on the instruments is what the machine is all about. I also have full confidence in your ability to write amazing music for the machine, whatever it sounds like. If there are parts of a song that need a human touch, you'll have musicians on stage to cover that. Let the machine sound like a machine! You can have a single ride stand next to you and a drum stick if needed 😅

[@pelandyman5775]

Hey Wintergatan, the idea of not hitting instuments directly all the time could honestly be turned into something. Yea, its thinking a bit off the original vibes, but there's likely ways to transform it into better than originally intended. Imagine a line of drum sticks. One by one and two by two marbels drop and the drum sticks fall. Its like a bunch of mini robot arms doing their job. This vision can be tuned in so many ways that it might just be worth looking into. In the end, trust your own process. Its been more than amazing watching you and the others go on a learning journey, making all this beautiful content and creations. Other commenters, feel free to drop your two cents respectfully

[@kelaarin]

Good substitute for kinetic fingers on the machine…

[@dicksonZero]

it's an interesting take. "if you can't avoid it, run with it"

[@xxportalxx.]

​@kelaarin yeah, the kinetic fingers were never good, anything is better haha

[@marin.aldimirov]

If something else hits the instruments, then why marbles? Why not any other mechanical mechanism that actuates the drumstick, like cogs or whatever. Playing music with marbles, to me, means marbles are playing the instruments, or in other words, they are directly interacting with the instruments. Otherwise, the marbles are just a means of moving a signal in a mechanical machine, similar to what wires do in an electrical machine. And then it's no longer a marble machine, it's a machine with marbles. Which to me is a subtle difference, but an important one.

[@MinimumViablePicnic]

I think marble on drumstick is awesome, when I was a child I loved barrel organs and the machines at Siegfried's because they PLAY instruments. Playing an instrument is important, not just making a noise with it. Plus I think the pivoting of elements like drumsticks and bass *fingers" will look amazing along with all the dropping marbles, a rich visual experience, like the splashes at bottom of a marble waterfall, some parts will move UP while everything else moves down xx

[@mrkjsmt]

Nice 'messy' video with fun Martin-Hannes interaction. Liked it!!

[@EVILBUNNY28]

I really love the idea of different sized marbles, from a mechanical standpoint. How cool would it be to watch a sea of marbles flow over a grate to get sorted out by size as if by magic. No moving parts, as simple as a marble divider can get. Edit: Also Hannes is 100% right. Marbles directly unless there really is no other option.

[@thomassutton4670]

For me what makes the marble machine magical is it's precision, from the marble drop, to the bounce, to the collection. So for me it adds to the effect to have marbles consistently hitting smaller targets like the drum stick or the bass "fingers".

[@navajyotichetia8968]

After watching for all the 6-7 years or so since the inception I can say with guarantee the world has never before had a Martin before

[@br52685]

That’s a meaningless statement, as it simply applies to every single human being.

[@NeonNijahn]

​@br52685 idk. I'm a total normy. There's definitely been someone as generic as me. I'm happy to be an npc in a world where people like Martin are the main characters.

[@br52685]

@@NeonNijahn That’s completely your own individual choice.

[@NeonNijahn]

@br52685 feels great to just be here to witness all of this passion and love for art and creativity, along with the celebration of learning from even the most challenging of lessons.

[@killyGHILLIE]

Mums are never wrong. Comon Martin! In all honesty, I appreciated the honesty of this video. The discussion and banter at the end humanises your struggles more. Lets go

[@Bein_Ian]

Hannes is the best voice of reason to Martin. What a dynamic duo.

[@audhen1]

maybe also try a thinner cymbal, you will get a much fuller sound with less impact/force needed. a meinl byzance jazz extra thin 16" has a very nice tone for it's size

[@jfaldasz8611]

Yes this! The components to make these sounds are marble, marble-instrument interface, and INSTRUMENT. There was a lot of discussion around changing the marble or augmenting the interface, both of which add complexity, but you can also modify the instrument so that a standard marble hitting it makes the desired sound. Rather than think about how to fashion a good sound given the available components, think about how to fashion components given the desired sound!

[@_Egitor]

thanks mom for guitar tip it is good. also thanks Hannes for the enthusiasm :D

[@Trainerds]

Thank YOU for the lovely comment ❤️ /Hannes

[@TS_Mind_Swept]

This video was kind of awkward, but it was hilarious so I hope you do more like it LUL

[@mateusbmedeiros]

You should, indeed, be playing the guitar in every video! Thank you so much Martin's mom!

[@luclatinette]

I like how the added drum stick looks! I think that's gonna add to the skeleton clock aspect of the machine

[@vee588]

I think Hannes is forgetting that drumsticks are instruments too

[@strongbgood]

Absolutely, that’s why there are different tips on the sticks and reeds and brushes. Keep the sticks

[@manmadewilderness]

The stick is part of the cymbal instrument. No one plays cymbals with steel balls.

[@davidjcrowley]

That was a great appearance by Hannes. Loved the evolution, the fun and the honesty of the discussion

[@STAG162]

Hannes3500 coming through with the goods again. Hard-hitting truth about the original MM and how it dropped about 5 marbles in a burst to get the desired sound. I believe this is what you should be focusing on for a similar result.

[@deltree711]

I'm glad to know you care so much about us!

[@user-eu5jc6qj4r]

And giving shit about the audience!

[@panzermagier]

@@user-eu5jc6qj4rwell been a fan since 2014 that hurts, never thought he was thinking that

[@p3t3mit]

Please, please, please, use the drumstick with the ride. :D

[@Plus_Escapee]

I trust the judgement of the engineer. Refinement is important for any art, and these marble machines are certainly advanced forms of art.

[@Ormek70]

I love the positive energy in this video. Realising and accepting that you are an artist and not an engineer seems to make you feel better.

[@linsproul3548]

Do the drum stick. It makes you happy, and that is the magic. This project is not for anyone else after all.

[@rinnin]

Love the stick hitting the cymbal, guitar playing & the Martin / Hannes banter ♥

[@mateusbmedeiros]

I have to say I, personally, agree 100% with Hannes. But I also trust you, Martin. Whatever you decide to do, I'm sure it will still blow me away.

[@guatagel2454]

Dude, you reinvented piano keys! Cool!

[@tuomasperttula3651]

If you want to play with the drumstick, why not just play it directly with the stick with a Bowden cable, instead of trying to hit the stick with the marble. I mean, the rhythm machine in MMX didn't use marbles.

[@jackradzelovage6961]

because the marbles are the point. i dont think the cables should really be used anywhere outside of manual controls and the readers-gates interconnection

[@NeonNijahn]

Why not just have someone play the drums at that point?

[@trevorkeenan3512]

We need more Hannes!!!!! The back and forth discussion and thought is what's going to make the new machine better

[@brettfontaine4681]

The stick sounds better. I vote for your compromise Martin. Marbles where appropriate. Stick where needed!

[@methodermis]

Why not wooden marbles for cymbals and/or drums?

[@lightspiritblix1423]

He tests it in the video and decides he likes the sound better

[@methodermis]

@@lightspiritblix1423 It's just weird he tests dozens of sizes, locations, and mechanisms for steel marbles but we only see one tap of another material marble against the cymbal.

[@shiso7237]

I feel like improving the sound is a subject for a later time. If you comited to design patterns an module, then you can make a v1 that works and then make a new module for the marble to cymbal module that sound good. It is very hard to design with every part of the problem in mind, and sometime better is the enemy of good and with method, you can build good, then better.

[@BreakingBarriers2DIY]

Firstly, your mom is VERY clever and wise. Lol. Marbles on instruments does sound like a good guideline…and the compromise sounds like a great dance with each instrument. We love the dance…AND the guitar playing. Mom is right.

[@jordanbailey9740]

I think the variety of ways that the machine plays the music is better than just the Hannes' point of just hitting the marble against the instrument. If your hitting certain symbols directly (when it sounds good) and others with a stick then you get both quality and variety!

[@defryingpan4290]

beautiful

[@OhMeGaGS]

I'm with Hannes. If you want great sound, just play every instrument by hand. The marble machine is a spectacle, it doesn't need to sound perfect. We have perfect sounding musicians all over the place.

[@justinnaramor6050]

So a musical marble machine shouldn't sound as Martin wants? I beg to differ. Sounding good is a non-negotiable requirement, period. If it sounds like crap essentially, it's all pointless. "Spectacle" means nothing if it doesn't work. If spectacle is really all you care about then you shouldn't even be watching this series... just watch a normal marble machine that's not even trying to play music and marvel at the "spectacle" that way. I can't really tell if I'm just misunderstanding your comment or something but it seems really stupid and narrow-minded. The comment literally read as if musicality is unimportant and it's "all about the spectacle", which is so obviously bullshit.

[@OhMeGaGS]

@@justinnaramor6050 Martin can do whatever Martin wants. When Martin asks for opinions, I give my opinion, not his.

[@OhMeGaGS]

@justinnaramor6050 in other words, I personally fell in love with the fact music was played by marbles hitting instruments.

[@justinnaramor6050]

@@OhMeGaGS Maybe instead give Martin your opinion on the best way to achieve his goal instead of "I don't agree with it, I'm gonna essentially criticize it". If Martin's goal is to have the marbles hit drumsticks, they're going to hit drumsticks, period. So... help Martin achieve that goal. Besides, you have no authority over this project, and no one else does either.

[@justinnaramor6050]

@@OhMeGaGS "fell in love with the fact that music was played by marbles hitting instruments". And that is exactly what's happening even when marbles hit drumsticks that hit drums. The combination of drum and drumstick is an instrument, too. The drumstick is most certainly a part of the overall instrument... it's silly to talk about it like it's somehow a separate part. Besides, there's no such thing as a "marble machine sound" as if marble machines are some kind of standardized instrument making a very specific sound. Marble machines inherently sound like whatever the heck you want them to sound like. You could have a marble machine that sounds like pyrotechnic blasts so you have the marbles hitting something that somehow sets off pyrotechnics. You could have a marble machine that sounds like electronic drums so you have the marbles hitting electronic drum pads. Or you could have a marble machine that sounds like... well, you get the idea. There's no such thing as a "standard marble machine sound"... a marble machine can use any sound-making object that can be hit by marbles, and yes, this includes the drum + drumstick combination. That in itself is a sound-making object.

[@kenethsoberano]

Marble hit. No stick. The unique sound of marbles playing music is magic.

[@Sock-Monster-Simian]

Regardless of what is decided, it was really, really cool to see the process of making specific sounds with the instruments, as usual.

[@Northwest3dDesign]

Such great fast engineering! I absolutely love your machines.

[@JaxsonGalaxy]

I am now 100% convinced. This project will never see the light of day. 😅

[@thomasbecker9676]

Wow, you held on for a while.

[@MeriaDuck]

Holding on for a bit over seven years now and counting. 10:30 "I hate good enough" says it all 🤣

[@TheXeradas]

Very nice! Thanks again for the conent, but the end nailed it. I love it :D

[@SenorPandaman]

“To an engineer, good enough means perfect. With an artist, there's no such thing as perfect.” ― Alexander Calder

[@Aralluen]

A marble machine that has marbles playing instruments and a marble machine that uses marbles as a method of power transmission is quite a significant difference. I completely agree that it should be marbles hitting instruments

[@justinnaramor6050]

This is a bullshit comment. The marble is still acting as "power transmission" either way. Every instrument needs a power source, be it your hand, foot, breath, whatever. So am I not playing a drum when I hit it with a stick, then? Is it the stick that's "playing" the drum? That's a pretty big logical fallacy if you ask me. The stick is part of the instrument. There are instruments in the world that involve one part hitting another part, where your hand doesn't actually physically hit either of the 2 parts but just provides energy for the 1 part to hit the other part. Is your hand not "playing" that instrument, then, by your logic? No, because the 2 parts literally make the instrument... your hand is still playing the thing. I remember seeing an instrument in music class called "the whip" and this was how it worked. Two pieces of wood joined together by a hinge, and both pieces having handles on them. You'd put your hands close together, bringing the two wooden pieces into contact with each other, and that's what makes the sound. The sound's not coming from your hand physically hitting the pieces. But your hand is still the thing that sets the instrument in motion just like with any other instrument. This is literally exactly what's going on here on the marble machine. The marble is still the thing that sets the instrument in motion, because the drumstick is part of the instrument. You still get music as a result of the marble drop either way. You should only be disappointed if the marbles were thrown out of the equation altogether... that's when it most definitely stops being a marble machine.

[@pcl89]

It's 2031. Martin is prototyping the last 37 Instruments out of the 250 Instrument Orchestra for the Marble Machine. World Tour is planned for 2040.

[@thomasbecker9676]

It's 2040, and Martin has scrapped everything to start over.

[@lightsnsiren79]

Great contribution from Hannes. Bring him in more.

[@daniellambert6207]

I may have missed it previously (watching since MMX days), but I like the appearance of "critical Hannes" to offer a dissenting opinion! In the past, he's been more of a "keep it up, you're doing great!" but now it's nice to see more Person A / Person B dialog (instead of just Person A responding to viewer's dissent) Presenting the ideas through persuasive conversations is a great way to fully show two sides of the argument.

[@GabeSullice]

This was one of my favorite videos in a long time

[@gerrywalsh5766]

As a kid I was always amazed by mechanical orchestra machines at the House On The Rock in Wisconsin... United States. Those machines playing instruments were absolutely mesmerizing.

[@finbom]

Great episode. Lots of warm humor. ❤

[@fleeb]

Two days before this video came out, I saw several mechanical machines at the museum for musical instruments in Phoenix, Arizona. The museum provides headsets that allow you to hear how the instruments sound as you approach them within the displays, although they provided a live demonstration of one of the devices (I can't recall the name of it, but it fills a section of the room). He's absolutely right... none of those devices seem to capture the sound quite correctly. They aren't necessarily terrible to hear, but if one may hear the instrument perform in a better manner, perhaps you'll have something just a little more special than what we currently have out there.

[@another2133]

A lovely and authentic, if not slightly tongue in cheek, interaction.

[@CoreTendency]

Hannes being there as a sounding board made this video 100% better, imo.

[@benjaminstandfest6265]

Thank you Wintergatan's mom, playing a guitar in every video is a fantastic idea (:

[@simon021]

I think Hannes is absolutely correct that the motion is what is magical, but I also think that the motion of the stick is a BONUS in addition to the motion of the marbles. looks cool and sounds good. 2 for 1.