Steer-by-wire - how it works with ZF

[@wtmayhew]

Thanks for the well done presentation, especially showing how road feel is communicated back to the steering input.

[@JohnEAvenson]

Excellent demonstration and education. showing all the different modes of steering and feedback will help move the car industry forward. The public doesn't know what they don't know

[@billhanna2148]

Shout out to Tesla and Elon Musk pushing the envelope when absolutely none of the OEMs could be bothered to do so. We would still have no steer by wire for the next 20 years if not for Tesla.

[@freddymax5256]

@@billhanna2148 They are driving a Ford.

[@DimitarStanev]

@@billhanna2148 Steer by wire was introduced by Infiniti like 10yrs ago.

[@billhanna2148]

@@DimitarStanev I know that but why was it dropped ?? the answer is they didnt need it to sell cars !! Now they will NEED it to sell cars.

[@billhanna2148]

@@freddymax5256 I KNOW THAT

[@KaiPonte]

Great video. This is nice. I owned a Chevy Avalanche - same size as a Suburban - for 13 years. It was ALWAYS a pain to park. Having the rear-wheel steering makes such a difference.

[@markplott4820]

Cybertruck steer is only 1/2 turn FULL lock to lock.

[@Supersprint27]

A lot of people struggle with parking, 4WS although not a new idea, is a real benefit. I remember it being on a Honda Prelude in the 90’s. SBW is the game changer, less turn on the wheel for great lock a slow speeds will make parking easier for many people. I notice that most people who have difficulty parking or even driving through narrow parking areas is that they never use full lock, and back and fill 10 times instead of once.

[@avanap8096]

That Prelude was 1987- 1988 depending on where you lived

[@Conservator.]

Not using full lock nor using all the space they have. (Reversing while they still could drive forward).

[@t3hpwninat0r]

i live in a 1st floor apartment. i watch many lazy people bring their cars and try and fail to parallel park in front of my kitchen window while i drink my tea and shake my head.

[@Conservator.]

@@t3hpwninat0r 😂

[@hvh377]

Adaptive steering (variable ratio steering) has been available in some cars without SbW for over a decade now. So it's not a game changer in that respect. Perhaps it is for people who do not know how to operate the wheel in a motor vehicle properly during parking maneuvers, but can I perhaps suggest another, much simpler and cheaper, game-changer for them? Just educate yourselves! Get some driving lessons and learn to drive a car. What are you doing with a driver's license when you don't even know how to operate the wheel properly?

[@CartersYTube]

The question that I have about the reliability and the fail safes that are in place with the steer by wire versus mechanical shaft. There’s not much that can fail when it comes to the mechanical application however, steer by wire relays on the combination of hardware, software, and complex electronics. Electronics have tendency to fail with automotive applications and the more advanced electronics become, the more dependent the vehicle becomes for basic operational functions. What processes would be in place to ensure that in the event of electronic failure that input from the driver could safely guide the vehicle to the side of the road?

[@hybridinnovate]

Вас закроют в машине, и будут везти куда им нужно. Они точно люди?

[@RamonSmits]

Nice technical explanation on how it does force feedback

[@zeitgeist888]

Very interesting and shows a lot of promise for benefits. I would like to see or know how it affects or improves dynamic handling such as the moose test, 1000' slalom and steady state cornering in 200' skidpad tests compared to just regular front wheel steering only to rear wheel steering and the steer by wire system.

[@richardprice5978]

looking at this between 2002-15~ era and my modified crap they don't need the racks as all 4 wheels can become independent ( maximum */angel is 70*-90* so turns can become shopping cart good and or pro-drift-mode etc ) controled with current version/technology, and alignments by wire and or on the fly, something i liked for my auto-X and or daily driver but i gave up on the idea as a teenager-30yo because i couldn't see anyways of getting it road legal, as big-foot ( monster truck's and hydraulic-only, but same challenges for wire/ electric control's ) changed the USA 🇺🇸 law's ( mechanical-only, assisted is gray area of law ) and by chance made it illegal for everyone

[@michalfaraday8135]

Any parking where people on both sides have enough space to open the doors and get out is easy parking. I humbly suggest a European supermarket challenge.

[@briansilver9652]

I have the ability, with the Tesla FSD trial, to get out of the car and remotely move it into a tight space. The future is bright.

[@RamonSmits]

@@briansilver9652 well, it still isn't parking it perfectly in the middel of a parking spot thus not really very promising for Europe

[@briansilver9652]

@@RamonSmits The software is the worse it will ever be, constant improvement.

[@RamonSmits]

@@briansilver9652 sure, just not usable for Europe. Same as parking next to the curb. In Europe you really need to park tight against the curb. That is something auto park can't do at all with FSD V12

[@Dave5843-d9m]

@@briansilver9652 There’s little point in squeezing into a typical EU car park space if your monster car prevents other car doors opening on either side of you.

[@Isovexillium]

Does steer-by-wire reduce vehicle mass compared to “traditional” steering systems?

[@wildcat64100]

It begs the question of why we drive such ridiculously big vehicles. All this technology wouldn’t be necessary if cars were sensibly sized.

[@Dave5843-d9m]

I drive a Fiat Panda. It’s great and goes the job, but fully steer by wire would be a great improvement.

[@bobholland9924]

Sure let's make them smaller more dangerous and useless. Only stupid people drive smart cars.

[@Conservator.]

@@Dave5843-d9mWhy would you want SBW on a Panda? It’s already nimble as it is isn’t it? It would make the vehicle more expensive, going against it USP of being a very cost effective vehicle.

[@smarticus6384]

There are far more beneifits than just making a large vehicle more agile.

[@hvh377]

@@smarticus6384 Like what? There is nothing SbW adds to the currently already available steering options for automobile drivers.

[@MotownModels]

I used to work with Neb and Chris. Great guys!

[@joshjenkins3815]

incredible, at what point to steer by wire kits become available to the aftermarket for enthusiasts?

[@Dave5843-d9m]

Unlikely. Cars today have umpteen computer boxes all doing this & that and communicating. Take one away and the whole system falls over.

[@joshjenkins3815]

@@Dave5843-d9m So install it with all the modules? I don't see any reason It wouldn't work. Also systems don't just fall over unless you throw a rod, there are redundancies for a reason.

[@peglor]

ZF literally make these systems for car manufacturers to buy. You can probably buy it straight from them, but integrating it into a car that wasn't designed for it won't be cheap or easy - easier than converting a steer by wire vehicle to mechanical steering though 😛.

[@joshjenkins3815]

@@peglor A challenge always makes it more fun :P

[@DavidJohnson-tv2nn]

I have a question om steer by wire safety..... I realize that they have redundant systems. But what about power? What if there is a complete power failure? Do they have a backup battery just in case?

[@Dave5843-d9m]

The 48 volt electrical system has its own battery.

[@danharold3087]

In an airplane there is generally much more time to react to an electrical failure. They have multiple power backups. Each engine has a generator, there is often a APU and if all that fails they pop a prop driven generator out to create power. I have heard that the CT has 2 redundant power systems. Don't know enough about it to say more.

[@DavidJohnson-tv2nn]

@@Dave5843-d9m Yes, but is there one or two 48 volt batteries? If one fails and there is only one and it fails... You're screwed!

[@DavidJohnson-tv2nn]

@@danharold3087 Thanks. Yes, I've also heard that they have redundant systems, but unless that actually includes two batteries so it is fully redundant, there is a problem. Hopefully someone with direct knowledge of these systems will let us know.

[@danharold3087]

@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn Exactly. How about using one set of wheels in the regen mode during a power failure to power the system! Some say the tech is too expensive for redundant power backup. It is already there. Maybe more transistors.

[@citizen_or_civilian]

How long will the components involved hold up when compared to traditional steering components? Will they be more expensive to maintain over the life of the vehicle?

[@Dave5843-d9m]

Mechanical and steer by wire steering racks are basically the same. Replacement costs should be similar. The power steering motors will at least double the replacement costs. However the car has two which can work independently but usually share the load. They should be more durable over time than the heavy 12v steering systems we have in today’s ICE cars.

[@markplott4820]

Cybertruck , has fewer parts , is more than 90% reliable ALL THE TIME.

[@citizen_or_civilian]

@@Dave5843-d9m Let's hope. Only time shall tell.

[@peglor]

@@markplott4820 I, for one am not impressed by the idea of 90% reliable steering.

[@gyrateful]

I drive 4-wheel steered telehandlers, and I want a F150 with it. Armin drives a Miata? I'm 182 cm tall and the Miata is too small for me to heal-toe shift. He looks like we're the same height.

[@ligius3]

I think he's taller. Sandy with the big boots is about your height.

[@deltajohnny]

I also thought the same... very tall guy in that little car!! 🙈🙈🙈😅😅😅

[@robcossin4690]

What was the main reason GM stopped offering the Delphi Quadrasteer? I know it was over $5,000 option, which might be why very few paid for it.

[@ruftime]

Low sales, price was dropped from $7,700, to 5k, 2k,1k and then discontinued. Honda tried 4ws with the Prelude in the same period with similar disinterest from most buyers.

[@JD-yx7be]

$5k is the early 00s is like $15k today. It also wasn't very reliable

[@danharold3087]

Going to full steer by wire made this far easier. Quadrasteer was too complex.

[@Dave5843-d9m]

Alfa Romeo had a passive rear steer system but any wear in the bushes and joints just messed it up.

[@markplott4820]

at best gm Quadrstear worked, but it was UNRELIABLE.

[@PBT_ASA_GF30]

The colleague holding up the mobile phone to take the video is so cute

[@joan38]

Amazing video, Steer-by-wire is the future

[@CalgaryCowtown]

Very informational. I didn't know if all the safety benefits of this. I hope REE and Canoo get some kudos and love because they're both already doing this.

[@by9917]

Didn't 4 wheel steering come out in the 80s? Even GM had quadrasteer some 20 years ago or more. I thought everyone already knew that 4WS gives better maneuverability. Sure it's better now, but it's not new.

[@dirkbester9050]

If a tree falls down in the 80s but nobody harvests it, does it still make a noise. No. The failed experiments don't mean much. Nobody remembers the Palm Pilot. Everyone remembers the iPhone.

[@peglor]

@@dirkbester9050 Not failed experiments so much as a feature customers weren't willing to pay for in anything that wasn't a very high profit margin premium car, which continues to this day - just about every manufacturer has steer by wire on the rear axle of their 4 wheel steered vehicles, so adding one more axle steered by wire isn't a massive leap anymore. If anything that situation has got significantly worse thanks to all the inflation of the cost of living that hasn't been matched by income increases since the 80s.

[@MoritzvonSchweinitz]

I always appreciated that traditional power steering always had a mechanical link, so even without power or pressure, it would still work. I can't see steer-by-wire having this basic last-ditch redundancy.

[@Conservator.]

Rear wheel steering is great because it decreases the turning circle of the car which makes it feel like a smaller car*. *At low speeds.

[@MRBACKHAND]

yeah theres no delay on the steering wheel, or the steering feel... and if its got 100% reliability with back ups.. then its good to go..... i like how Armin and Sandy are both pragmatic guys first..... i think thats the best way to be

[@AlexBenfica]

I learned a lot here. It should be fun working on this software

[@petemiller519]

The ZF guys moved the pilons a bit closer when parking with the 4 wheel steering off.

[@jimusa9330]

Yep. Why did they move them closer?

[@neilfromclearwaterfl81]

I believe they tilted them away from the body to prevent scuffing the paint and put them right back on the markers afterwards when possible however the tires were often on top of the base plates at those times so they could not really move anything back into place until the tire was no longer making contact holding the base plate to the pavement. Best!

[@Conservator.]

I don’t think they were moving the pilons closer. They moved one a tiney bit to the outside when Sandy was parking with RWS off (to avoid damage).

[@WiseWik]

It's just a few inches. I mean the benefit of the system is pretty clear.

[@Cyber_Cowboy]

No, they didn’t. Give us timestamps, but while you’re doing that, I think you’ll notice they did not move them and if they did, you couldn’t tell from the video.

[@Ishkatan]

How about giving the customer a menu where they can set the steering controls/feel they way they want.

[@pcInCA]

What would a Miata feel like with that steering? Super Miata?

[@itchynackers]

hakunamatatamiata

[@ramblerandy2397]

Nice informative video. So many comments about it, so I'll say something about the ID3. A compact car with a mid-sized interior. Loads of space inside. VW doesn't sell it in N. America, yet for me, and many Europeans, it is way better than the sibling ID4. It steers, handles and performs much better. Not super cart-like, like a Tesla M3, because it sits relatively higher, but it is still fun. Sadly, it's over priced these days though, with rivals reducing their prices. But, if it was price keen, you'd like it in N.America, as a TM3 alternative.

[@jamesengland7461]

The efficiency and tire wear aspects make sense! Front tires wear more quickly from steering and braking, and with the steering loads shared, toe in can be reduced or eliminated, tires can be narrowed, and in place of a brute force approach to turn in, a balanced approach by using both axles can enhance handling. Toe and caster are passive, mechanical tools to enhance passive stability, where just as in fighter jets, the car could have reduced passive stability or even be dynamically unstable, yet be made controllable with the steer by wire system. I can't imagine a need to set up UNSTABLE steering geometry, but neutral geometry makes sense, and the vehicle could still be safely maneuvered even if the load shifted, a tire went flat, or traction conditions rendered one or more tires unable to help maneuver. Wow this is exciting stuff! Understeer and oversteer could be eliminated as negatives, yet allowed in settings like sport or track mode.

[@otm646]

Lamborghini has active camber and toe adjustments coming to market. For maximum performance a touch of toe out will dramatically improve turn in feel. Unstable alignment configurations are advantageous, but they need to be brief.

[@peglor]

You've presumably heard of the kind of faults where the ECU craps itself and everything in the car dies while rolling down the road. Now imagine this scenario in a steer by wire and brake by wire vehicle. I definitely won't be anywhere near the front of the queue for any car with this setup until it's been very well proven in a few million cars. Since ZF is a well regarded company that have been doing decent engineering for a long time, they'll have considered this, but that doesn't mean other players in the car market won't be playing fast and loose with customer safety if steer by wire gets normalised.

[@andrewashmore8000]

Super excited to see the F 150 , with rear wheel steer ,that just made my day what a miss by Ford not to have it on the Lightning. Hopefully the next generation truck will have it.

[@danharold3087]

Ford will have to buy it. They are already struggling to get costs down to where a sale does not cost them money.

[@markplott4820]

FUD motors is Multiple DECADES behind TESLA motors.

[@andrewashmore8000]

@@markplott4820 yet the lightning truck is a better OVERALL ev family truck than the cybertruck and it wasnt even designed from the groundup , it won without even trying super hard.

[@brianb-p6586]

The F-150 Lightning rear suspension uses semi-trailing arms, which are not suited to steering. The multi-link rear suspensions used by other battery-electric trucks are more expensive, but more easily accommodate rear steering. Steering a beam axle (such as the rear of the gas F-150 and most other pickups) carries a substantial cost and complexity penalty.

[@markplott4820]

@@brianb-p6586 - the Lightning is still using OUTDATED horse & buggy TECH in 2024......lol.

[@SimonClaringbold]

Great development from the team at ZF. Are they doing this with 12volt DC motors?

[@sanMyung]

Rack loads are tire load right? But in future anyways steering wheel is going away?

[@sanMyung]

All manufacturers need to implement it now anyways, so much better

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

Awesome, ZF also is the name of advanced transmissions. Would be nice to compare what Toyota did in their steer by wire Lexus models.

[@hvh377]

It's the same company. ZF is a large supplier to many car brands and they produce a lot more subsystems and parts than just gearboxes.

[@pablopicaro7649]

Quadrasteer GMC/Chevy offered rear wheel steering several years ago (2002- to 2005,2023?), now those systems need service . PARTS to repair are VERY DIFFICULT to find. good idea, but VERY EXPENSIVE to repair and Difficult to find parts

[@dsmclaughlin12]

Doesn't reversing into the space solve the parking problem? Cool tech tho.

[@transparentguy9096]

It adds up a lot of wait time in contrast to a first time right. Especially in peak and tight parking spaces it saves you from anxiety and time

[@mannyAKAmanny]

Why cant the system turn the wheels 90 degrees for moving sideways into a tight parallel parking space? Sure the mechanism that attaches the wheels to the car would have to have enough clearance and the wheel wells would need some redesigning. But steer by wire should enable this. Maybe that will become a thing a few iterations later.

[@petersilva037]

You would need a Hyundai for that :-) kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5eWcmyLg62Dq6M&ab_channel=TorqueNews

[@peglor]

The ridiculously oversized wheels in SUV's already eat so much into the interior space with the current poor steering lock that many massive SUV's have no more interior space than a decent wagon/estate/touring/kombi bodied car from the 2000s. But then again they've made it so bad already that making it worse may not affect their sales, since so many of them spend their entire lives carrying one person anyway 😞. Also, driving wheels that can turn 90 degrees from straight is very difficult by conventional means, but hub motors are a thing in electric vehicles, so that could be worked around.

[@hooville9059]

ZF has always been a top tear OEM manufacture of mechanical systems, one area that I think this Steer by Wire & Rear Wheel Steering may have an application is for persons with disabilities. This can simplify the complexity of modifying an adaptive vehicle steering along with greater control and individual customization. Next is the braking control? Munro has been a leader to improve product quality and manufacture techniques to lower cost (anybody can make a crappy low cost product). Nobody has looked at the Electric Skate board floor to allow a Wheelchair be loaded with a person and locked in place. Today the Vehicle modifiers cut a brand new Van floor off, lower it and interfere with so many other components needlessly, it's mindless. A system wheeled base Wheelchair with chair options that are interchangeable and a lifting system attached to the Skate Board to place Wheelchair inside the Vehicle and tie downs at needed position locations could open the world to transport for so many at an affordable cost with much less complexity.Thanks for both your companies, Rich.

[@peglor]

Much simpler to cut the floor out of a car where the material you need to remove is just the floor than to do the same in a car where that space is full of high voltage battery. Also, making custom tiedowns in a normal car or van floor is stupidly easy, because you just have a sheet of structural steel to bolt into, because again there's no battery under the floor. I'm pretty sure the people who modify vehicles for wheelchairs are avoiding electric ones like the plague because a completely new set of techniques are likely to be needed. There is one absolutely epic reason to go with an electric car for mobility and that's that it can very quickly charge the wheelchair as you drive to where you're going.

[@河粉-k1h]

Why can’t Tesla have that 360 backup image system?

[@mshepard2264]

Steer by wire is cool however on the big / small car topic, driving a small car is magical. I have been driving a pickup for work and switched to a small car and its so great. uturns are easy parking is great acceleration is quick.

[@Jetbill007]

Great video. Maybe you guys can help the guys at Stellantis get the 2024 JL wrangler 4xe steering dialed in a little better!

[@avanap8096]

Dont know why 4 wheel steer was here? Its a long way from new.. i would be very unhappy if the flakey adas system in my current vehicle could take over and block all inputs. Definitely would have hit stuff by now.

[@zodiacfml]

I'm critical of Tesla but I'm still impressed on how many new systems they have put into one new car, the Cybertruck. If this were Toyota, we'd probably see 48V first and steer by wire after 10 years, and rear steering 5 years after that.🤭 Steer by wire is so worth it today especially with a car that is sold both Left and RHD. Toyota is so behind, they should have been at 48V on all cars considering the low cost of LFP or lithium batteries. I've seen a Chinese ICE car that uses a fairly large electric motor as a starter, alternator, brake regenerator, motor at 48V. That's pretty quick and cheap way for a very mild hybrid propulsion. Alternatively, TOyota should have a hybrid by now like a Nissan kicks which is essentially an EV only charged by ICE and fuel all the time.

[@FutureSystem738]

Toyota = YAWN 🥱

[@zodiacfml]

@@FutureSystem738 to be fair, they were right being conservative with ICE cars. Their cheap cars are highly reliable. These days, an EV is absurdly more reliable than any ICE car.

[@freddydad1]

Critical of tesla or don't agree with musk's opinions?

[@zodiacfml]

@@freddydad1 I don't care much about the guy except back then he was the source of latest Tesla updates at twitter. Back to Tesla, they make some questionable decisions and engineering.

[@peglor]

@@zodiacfml Not based on consumer reports for breakdowns of actual cars. EV's absolutely should be more reliable than IC engined cars, until you consider the century invested in making IC engines both cheap and reliable wasn't just wasted time. Also consider that almost all breakdowns, regardless of power source are electrical in nature - If you ignore punctures/suspension damage (Which heavier electric cars are more susceptible to) and running out of fuel (Which again electric cars are more susceptible to, especially when it's cold).

[@chrisgoebel8867]

Have you experienced Passive Rear steering? Offered on selected Citroen Xsara models back in the 80's

[@Dave5843-d9m]

I was also offered by Alfa Romeo in the 1990s. The snag is any wear in suspension joints really messes it up.

[@brianb-p6586]

Every modern rear suspension exhibits passive rear steering to some extent.

[@Lse380]

Is the cybertruck system from zf?

[@zukacs]

in house

[@williamminehan4416]

Heck no are you kidding? They’re just trying to keep up with the Tesla. And it’s not been purchased by any carmakers at all yet. We’ll see how good it is. And how to troubleshoot it when something goes wrong. I guarantee you they don’t have Over the air updates. Especially Volkswagen.

[@JD-yx7be]

@@williamminehan4416 over the air updates are nothing new now it is not some state of the art tech even modern kitchen appliances have it lol

[@ed808]

@@JD-yx7be Sadly very few car manufacturers have actually caught up with this every day appliance tech at the moment

[@roddlez]

To be fair, cars have far more computers throughout the machine than kitchen appliances. Yet Tesla can fully update software throughout the vehicle, and none of the legacies can (some of them have partial software updates, but there are components that require a service center visit)

[@m4anow]

Those demonstrations were scary...a glitch on the freeway and you're done...malicious actors are going to love this😂

[@vincentlaw82]

Fascinating. It takes Tesla to deliver the CT and suddenly Sandy gets invited by a big german supplier so they can demonstrate their Steer-By-Wire system. Why didn't they pitch to other car manufacturers before so we could've get rid of column based steering ages ago? Very curious. One company that kicks the industry out of stagnation it seems. Next we see Bosch invite them to demonstrate their 48V system.

[@peglor]

Japanese manufacturers were putting steer by wire in the odd car over a decade ago. It's not even slightly new as a technology, the main problem is it's solving a problem most people don't have in a more expensive way, so negligible consumer interest - I already have electrically assisted power steering with mechanical feedback straight from the road with far fewer parts, safe steering in the event of power loss, and way less computer intervention. The most interesting thing the electronics related to the steering do in my car is feed the steering angle and wheel speed to the satnav, so it can still tell me where I am in tunnels using dead reckoning, and that's in a satnav system that first came out around 20 years ago. 48V electrics, on the other hand, should have probably have happened 20 years ago - that was the point where I first read about the car industry pushing for it. There still is no good argument against it apart from 48 V is lisghtly more prone to giving people shocks that can kill them, but in a 400+ V electric car that seems somewhat moot. The Mercedes S Class from the late 90's/early 2000s was supposedly running enough electrical toys that they claimed it could at least theoretically pull 5 horsepower from the battery. Converting to less medieval units, that's about 3.7 kW, which would require a 310 Amp current to deliver it at 12 Volts. I highly doubt that figure ever occurred in the real world, but the cold cranking amperage on some batteries is in that territory, so there would be enough copper going from the battery to deliver that much power for a short time.

[@brianb-p6586]

ZF has offered their system to anyone who wants it for a long time. The 4WS systems are commonly used in expensive cars, but no one has chosen to use front steer-by-wire from ZF yet... all of which has nothing to do with either Munro or Tesla.

[@WarrenLacefield]

It seems like different steering modes might well be desirable. However, I think most of the time (as the driver, not passenger or "supervisor"), I'd want and expect my car to continue to behave the same way I become accustomed to and not be like getting into a different rent-a-car on every trip.

[@1944chevytruck]

thanks for video!

[@AndrewGray1987]

Why add so much complexity and cost and potential safety issues to a system that is 100% rock solid? In my current vehicle I've never been concerned about it getting hacked or the computer crashing or the steering motor dying and now I'm unable to steer the vehicle.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Well, as I understand, the CT has 2 computers on different power circuits, each cross connected to 2 motors on different circuits, plus dual sensor systems on the steering input end. .

[@northerngannetproject3147]

No reason. 'By wire' simplifies a plane... but not a car.

[@Volte6]

Because it enables new features and functionality. It's not a single incremental change, but an entire variety of changes it enables. Whether we should never aspire to change (particularly improvement through change) is up for debate - there is certainly value in basic systems that anyone can wrench on - i think there will always be that go-kart aspect of vehicle/tool ownership. Variable gain steering, adjustable steering, remote steering... our interfaces with vehicles has been pretty basic and required us to hack additions onto in order to innovate, such as with existing auto-steer. The concerns make sense - but imagine where we'd be if airplanes still had to be steered via cables and pulleys.

[@lyfandeth]

I've had the power steering booster pump fail on one car, and an engine fire caused by a p/s hose chafing on the exhaust manifold of another. So as much as it makes life easier, I'd even score two marks against conventional power steering systems. All these new electronics only add new failure modes. And having more of them, they multiply the chances of a failure. Like computerized transmissions where "the computer" fails and the only way to fix it is to swap out a $2500 circuit board.

[@Volte6]

@@lyfandeth this is true of every advance in automotive technology. Gotta embrace change or be left behind. The world won't stay one way forever. Especially in something so engrianed In our day to day life.

[@arlindbanushi]

Didn't steering and braking BU came from TRW purchase? Some of my former colleagues use to work in the Italian plant. Also they came to my UNI to showcase the company. Anyway good demonstration.

[@teodor4ik183]

Outstanding... 😂 They accomplished impossible mission. For 30 minutes of talking about rear steering and steer by wire they all didnt said the word "cybertruck"

[@blessedevinedavid]

KKKK, i was searching for this comment, where have u been, funny thing is that we thought steer by wire wa solved by tesla, why did they wait so long to do this in the shadow of cybertruck.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@blessedevinedavid ZF solved all of this before Elon decided to build a "truck" without curves.

[@brianb-p6586]

It's not that difficult. 4WS has been around for decades, and front steer-by-wire was first put into production by Toyota, not Tesla.

[@teodor4ik183]

@@brianb-p6586umm... Yeah. But we are actually understand why this video published? ZF want to show that CT is not uniqe and they can do the same. CT is not pathfinder, but it did what tesla did with e-cars, highlited posibilty.

[@mikeg_123]

ZF makes the front electric steering system for the Cybertruck.

[@FutureSystem738]

Interesting that ZF are in to this big-time. They won’t have a gearbox business for too much longer. (My other car, which is NOT a Tesla, has a ZF 8 speed gearbox. I hardly ever drive it now, as I infinitely prefer my Tesla for daily driving.)

[@brianb-p6586]

ZF has been a world leader in steering gear for a long time - this is just a normal part of their product offerings, not a replacement for transmission business.

[@FutureSystem738]

@@brianb-p6586 The transmission business, at least as it stands right now, won’t be around for too much longer. EVs don’t need highly complex eight (or more) speed transmissions- just a single speed reduction gear. I think anyone with half a brain at ZF knows this, and I’ll bet they’re scrambling to look at alternatives.

[@drod96]

I’m just curious what happened to the audio to be so rough on one of the speakers, crazy phasing

[@MunroLive]

Technical difficulties so we were forced to use the iPhone audio for Neb.

[@deltajohnny]

@MunroLive Great solution, and we could hear it reasonably well 👏👏

[@danneil8778]

thanks folks!

[@sheepcute]

I'd love you guys to look at some Chinese cars like BYD. What makes them so much more competitive?

[@markplott4820]

BYD sells MORE outdated ICE/Hybrids . BYD is no Competition to TESLA in China or EU. BYD only makes LOW TECH bev , they lack PROPER Autopilot & FSD. BYD sells CHEAPER cars , that LACK High Tech SMART car Features.

[@trottingwolf]

I have the Cybertruck and parking it is a dream... well not exactly it is big, but with the rear stearing and side cameras bscking it into a spot like that is not a major issues. I would say it's about 25% more effor than parking my model Y in the same spot. Rear steering and drive by wire really changes driving big vehicles.

[@kevinchen1588]

SBW makes auto-driving easier, especially when dealing with dynamic collision avoidance

[@peglor]

Way too many people have experienced their car trying to veer off the road or into oncoming traffic for no reason thanks to lane assist malfunctioning for any sane person to think that severing the link completely and giving the car's systems primary control is a good idea.

[@tacosdecamaron]

Great contents guys! sooooo interesting!

[@MrCarGuy]

At the end of the day, more features like 4 wheel steering is more cost and also more failure points. I'll take lower maneuverability unless I absolutely need it. That's why it's best left as a high cost option.

[@FutureSystem738]

Perhaps you’d like a Model T?

[@KTPDAILY]

A NICE GROUP -- THANK YOU FOR THIS

[@ckupcu]

They should design 48V now so that they are ready when demand comes. Because it needs enough time for testing, AEC qualification, OEM adaptation - this is usually good 1-2 years!

[@RamonSmits]

No mentioning or demonstration of the latency and not of the speed. What happens when you very quickly steer left/right like with a moose test?

[@otm646]

It's even faster than a human. Just like how predictive braking applies more brake pressure than the driver immediately commands to dramatically reduce stopping distance. The same is done for drive by wire within the stability limits of the vehicle.

[@RamonSmits]

@@otm646 that would be strange if it would oversteer. So far all steer bij wire videos I've seen on KZbin suffer from lag/latency and turn speed

[@Dave5843-d9m]

The Ethernet gigabit data system is so fast there is effectively no latency.

[@otm646]

@@RamonSmits There is no lag with the CT. If anything, the complaint is that the steering rack ratio is too fast. No other truck on the market can go lock to lock faster, be that with a conventionally hydraulic system or an EPS system.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@Dave5843-d9m even ancient analog electronics or digital systems of 40 years ago would still have negligible latency for steering purposes.

[@danharold3087]

TDblCapCrimpin is a small channel that is showing how to remove and replace body and interior parts on the cybertruck. A nice compliment to what Monroe is doing.

[@COSMEREAUDIO]

Finally a video with the legend sandy, the videos were getting very boring without him.

[@t850]

It's ironic how you need to overengineer something as basic as steering just so you can park a comically overisized car a tad bit easier. It's such a first world problem...xD

[@elijahtucker7938]

Lol so true. I've spent years in multiple asian countries, and this is largely a non-issue everywhere but the US

[@deltajohnny]

@t850 Here in Europe we do not to park "nose first" and it's much easier and faster 👍👍

[@t850]

@@deltajohnny I live in Europe too. My personal tactic regardig the parking is as follows: If the parking spot is on the left side of the street then I park nose first If on the right, then back first. In Europe streets are generally much more narrow that in the US and we and still manage to park cars sideways if neccesary. In US parking it's a logistics problem if you don't park "nose first"...xD

[@deltajohnny]

​@@t850 Yes, some americans would have a hard time driving and parking in oir narrow streets and parkings 😅😅😉😉

[@Cyber_Cowboy]

The steering wasn’t developed for parking, even if it didn’t make parking easier they still would move forward with the technology. Making parking easier is just a advantage.

[@eddiegardner8232]

My first high school car was a '52 Buick Super without power steering. About 5 difficult steering wheel turns from lock to lock when parking it. I am open to steer by wire + rear wheel steering whenever whoever puts it into my next EV. Cybertruck has it, but my Model Y doesn't. (And I don't really want to have to buy a truck, to get it)

[@TLH64]

Very cool❤.

[@davidcutting]

I enjoyed this

[@steverolfeca]

Any comments re: reports of Cybertruck owners experiencing loss of steering control despite redundant systems?

[@danharold3087]

Have you expand 1 report to reports? Have we seen verification. The one report then nothing. Not belittling this.

[@corresandberg]

Great video ❤ So Tesla develops this things themselves, and the old big car companies around the world waits for Zf to do it for them?

[@docsnider8926]

ZF developed steer by wire systems long before Tesla. These are used in heavy trucks, special machines etc. for years and it is used for rear axle steering for decades.SBW failed to be superior in normal cars, because outside the US backup systems are mandatory. Tesla uses steer by wire because of the extreme design if the CT.

[@MegaWilderness]

If you'd open your ears, you'd have learnt that ZF have been doing this far longer than Tesla. You also don't know whether Tesla is a customer of ZF or another supplier. The Hummer was doing this far longer than Tesla

[@davidlemieux615]

GM has it and Hyundai has e-steer… or something like that. The difference is Tesla has made more such systems than all the others combined… already! Ain’t many Hummers sold.

[@corresandberg]

Zf is a great company, for sure. If I was bashing anything it was the old companies 🥴. Is Tesla buying there stuff from Zf?

[@MegaWilderness]

@@docsnider8926 The Cybertruck is no more extreme than an F150. It's roughly the same size

[@chrisborns5972]

You back into that spot, basic truck knowledge

[@Y2Kvids]

That's rear wheel steering

[@jamesengland7461]

You're missing the point.

[@Jojo-o6o6w]

@@jamesengland7461 amazing how people will miss the point like that. its just to showcase how effective 4 wheel steering is.

[@N-M424]

Yes! Plus it doesn't cost me a premium to have 4-wheel steer.

[@andrewashmore8000]

Thanks for the info , never knew

[@eddiegardner8232]

When contemplating having "safety" features, such as dodging other cars or road hazards automatically via active steer-by-wire hardware, think about Tesla's "phantom braking" problem, or Boeing's MCAS stall prevention system on the 737 Max. Go very cautiously into that territory; lawsuits can get very expensive, and safety reputations can vanish overnight with just a few accidents.

[@danharold3087]

The MCAS system is an example of management corruption and maybe communication failure rather than engineering. Phantom breaking on the Tesla is most likely the car being cautious. We could expand the period of allowed uncertainty prior to applying the emergency stop but it would be unwise. Better to improve the system so as to reduce the periods of uncertainty.

[@Ariccio123]

This is not what concerns me. What concerns me more is things like memory corruption from software bugs and random cosmic rays, intermittent electrical issues after years of salt accelerated corrosion, and other bizarre failures that are hard to predict and give no warning of trouble

[@Dave5843-d9m]

Electronics are the most durable part of any car. However any safety intervention such as emergency steering should be as reliable as emergency braking. There are so many edge cases of what’s already an edge case it’s hard to know how that could work.

[@markplott4820]

HW4 vehicles , have no issues w/ Phantom Breaking.

[@eddiegardner8232]

@@markplott4820 That’s nice to know since I just bought one, an Austin-made Dual Motor.

[@N-M424]

Having been behind the wheel of a vehicle traveling at highway speeds that was struck by lightning and lost all electrical power, I am glad I had a physical connection to the steering rack and was able to steer the vehicle safely to the side of the road.

[@AllistairNeil]

I'm not.😢

[@lewispommells234]

Steer by wire (fly by wire) has been used on commercial and military aircraft since the 80's without major issues. There's an element of redundancy that needs to be built in.

[@eddiegardner8232]

When Kyle Conner was doing his range tests of the Cybertruck, and ran the battery until the vehicle shut down on the side of the road, I was wondering if they also lost steering ability, or if there was a hidden safety buffer built in, which was not disclosed by Tesla. They never said if the steering went dead or not.

[@chstra45]

​@@eddiegardner8232steering runs off LV. If HV goes down the LV will keep safety critical systems up for a short while.

[@chstra45]

​@@eddiegardner8232also, there is a buffer. They don't disclose because it's not a rigid setting. It can vary based on a number of conditions.

[@FirstLast-et3sw]

4WS is really only needed because vehicles are gargantuan in size. It’s added cost and complexity. It’s absolving a problem that shouldn’t have been created to begin with.

[@markplott4820]

ZF, did not mention either , weather or not Steer by Wire alone is cheap enough to be installed in a Mass Market Compact vehicle ($19,000) and Sub Compact vehicle ($15,000). my estimation is its cost effective in MID size Mass Market vehicles like the MODEL 3 RWD. we shall see is they are able to SCALE this tech , get cost reductions @ SCALE and package it correctly for Compact & Sub-Compact vehicles.

[@duffgaryduff]

It’s almost as if Tesla hasn’t just released into the market a vehicle with both 4 wheel steer and steer by wire. Hint (Cybertruck) Aren’t these guys a little late to the party?

[@Tenniszogger]

Who do you think developed the steer by wire system in the Cybertruck?

[@b4804514]

Sandy not mentioning Tesla has all these in the Cybertruck says it all

[@teodor4ik183]

I think its a price... 😂

[@simson4t]

What does it say? By the way I have Heard that cyber truck uses zf System

[@itsyo42]

so whats wrong? because i'm clearly not smart enough to see it. There has been zero accident related to fly-by-wire in the aviation industry in the past 50 years. All systems require a double-triple physical redundancy with a triple-quadruple computer control redundancy with a physical hydraulic backup. There is literally no other kind of movement control system in any industry beside the rocket industry that has such a high level of redundancy.

[@teodor4ik183]

@@simson4t if so, the would shurely talk about it.

[@andrewashmore8000]

Indeed was wondering the same.

[@torchlord11]

The crazy thing is so many like these vehicles anyway despite the crappy maneuverability. It is so annoying waiting for a big ass truck that doesn't have SBW park so I can't wait till more vehicles have this technology.

[@markplott4820]

heavy Commerical vehicles , would benefit BOTH from Steer by Wire & RWS . Tesla semi would need 64v motor system to handle Vehicle loads. all the way to Class 8 trucking.

[@brianb-p6586]

Steering a driven beam axle suspension is complex, heavy, and expensive... and commercial vehicles don't want any of those, so 4WS is out for most of them. Heavy vehicles built with massive budgets (fire apparatus, some military vehicles) has independent rear suspension and even available 4WS (using Oshkosh TAK-4 suspension, for instance).

[@nickfosterxx]

"Looks big and beefy on the outside - but now it actually feels a lot smaller when you're inside" As the actress said to the Bishop.

[@dirkbester9050]

It feels strange watching this demo after seeing it already in production with the Cybertuck. Boring? Disappointing?

[@jamesbruce1183]

Imagine having the system prevent you from overloading the tires in a turn ie not skidding so you can safely complete the turn wet or dry. And not leave the roadway if physically possible.

[@thedownwardmachine]

With all due respect to Chris, was there anyone else who kept thinking he was going to tell the luxury edition has so much more eagle?

[@JanwarKali]

Hindi ba kaya Ng gear drive Yan, para manual lang bawas konsomo Ng power...planetary

[@douggolde7582]

Perfect old fart parking job. No offense Sandy, I’m up there with you.

[@Z3CHB4DB0Y]

😂

[@markclark4154]

Sandy would benefit from an advanced driving course!

[@Ishkatan]

I want an F150 Lightning with rear wheel steering.

[@codefeenix]

what is zf?

[@joanpere8863]

Zahnradfabrik of Friedrichshafen in Germany.

[@sleeknub]

Really strange to hear this entire conversation without a single mention of the Cybertruck, the first and, to date, the only production vehicle to have pure drive-by-wire technology (no?). Especially given that Munro is currently tearing it down.

[@MrMe629]

There is at minimum a Lexus with Steer-by-Wire in production. Engineering Explained has a vidoe comparing the systems.

[@Alhussainba]

Sandy just showed the cybertuck steering system, a lot of the components show ZF's logo meaning CT's steer by wire was codeveloped with ZF.

[@sleeknub]

@@Alhussainba yes, I saw that. Still makes for a very weird video.

[@fiberkim4443]

when I heard that air plane use the steer by wire I can feel trust, but when I see the actual wire of cybertruck on Munro lieve I was little worried.

[@taylorb2783]

7:30 how to advertise the cybertruck without saying it’s name 🤣

[@joan38]

Only Michigan has tight parking like this. Nowhere else.

[@JosvanOosten]

48 Volt?

[@buntnik]

I’m confused. Why are the ppl standing around in the video?

[@bomberaustychunksbruv4119]

Steer by wire with no physical attachment, sure an old car can wear out and control links get worn, but you have warning there and can repair it. I wish you all the very best of luck driving a vehicle with steer by wire when the vehicle ages and the road salt corrodes connectors, or the actual steer unit faults later in life. Good Luck !!!! 🤗

[@steffmusic9]

Drive-by-wire could easily provide multiple driving positions in a car for teaching student drivers.

[@tomorrow-man]

Think it would have been interesting to ask if ZF think there is likely to be 'a Tesla goes, everybody else follows' effect courtesy of the Tesla cybertruck having steer by wire. ZF would do well out of it

[@MadawaskaObservatory]

I love drive by wire and rear wheel steering. Albeit I'm extremely concerned if the drive by wire and especially the rear wheel steering fails. The consequences could be catastrophic.

[@teodor4ik183]

Also about break by wire, acselerator by wire, gear by wire etc... 80% of road accidents because of it... Or not?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Suggestion? Never fly.

[@kennethjoseph4227]

Tesla already knocked this out of the park on my Cybertruck

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

🤗 THANKS MUNRO AND ZF FOR SHOWING US THE FUTURE SUPER 🥶💚💚💚😊

[@davidlemieux615]

But the future is already here! It’s called Cybertruck

[@imtheonevanhalen1557]

Nissan tried this on the first Z-32 300ZX's.........and people did not like it. They removed the system entirely on later models.