After 2 Years Elden Ring’s Community Is Still Debating What The Game Is Even about.

[@mr.wassell7885]

An hour and a half into discussing the game, Ceave says "yeah I like the game." Never change, Ceave

[@NAFProjects]

"Don't worry, that's not the actual final bossfight yet, that's-oh wait no it's the actual final bossfight" Hysterical

[@LoudWaffle]

The Elden Beast's sword is also LITERALLY Radagon's corpse. Look closer at the hilt.

[@damianramirez5292]

I believe he’s also doing the inner or outer pose as well on the hilt. You can barley tell.

[@Hugo_Tate]

No shit….

[@sanerin7111]

Ceave Perspective is honestly one of the only KZbinrs I have bell notifications on and it's so worth it

[@glowindark64]

Literally just found this channel. HOW DID NO ONE TELL ME???

[@Vandreand]

That makes two of us.

[@newt2120]

The crazy thing is every KZbinr has this same comment under one or more of his videos

[@snarpking]

🚨 BANGER ALERT 🚨 Ceave has dropped a feature length video on Elden Ring! This is not a drill!

[@thefarmingpenguin]

I have trained long and hard for this moment!

[@WASTED_potential728]

Bro the fact that you said banger means it aint

[@MossMothMyBeloved]

"You know, when society decided to make child labor illegal we took the rune of child labor out of the metaphorical Elden Ring"

[@blargghkip]

This implies that we as a society can create a mending rune of child labor

[@thekaelixchamber]

@@blargghkipbut how 🤔

[@asmagamer728]

@@thekaelixchamberIndustrialisation and extreme cost-cutting

[@thekaelixchamber]

@@asmagamer728 wrong! Brainwashing!

[@midas6753]

Wait until you hear about the child labour laws being rolled back in conservative states in the US lmao mending the rune of child labour is already real ​@@blargghkip

[@harvesterofsubs5561]

Ceave Gaming: With this, Mario is able to make the jump. Hooray! Ceave Perspective: And, so, we are able to understand the duality of religion and nihilism; death and rebirth. Hooray!

[@stellanovaluna]

ROFL TRUE

[@Merikov]

What's Elden Ring? Everyone Else: "A Fantasy RPG" Only Ceave: "Well in 1943..."

[@billhasntbeenreal6143]

when one of my favorite content creators from Mario maker (a game I literally never played) covers Fromsoft games (my literal favorite games) I am happy. Glad to run into again Ceave!

[@xanathar8659]

I was literally JUST thinking "I wonder when the next Ceave Perspective upload will be? I'm itching to watch it". Then my notification popped up a couple seconds later

[@gemrazzled]

after probably several hundreds of hours of playing and watching elden ring videos this is somehow the first time ive Ever heard anyone bring up the idea that melina in the frenzy ending is merged w ranni in some sense, which is actually really interesting to think about given their connections dang

[@extrathicc78]

It’s definitely been pointed out before, but yeah it is definitely interesting

[@thekaelixchamber]

@@extrathicc78where and when was it theorized?

[@extrathicc78]

@@thekaelixchamber just search Ranni and Melina, you’ll find a few. Including a video called “Ranni is Melina” which is pretty popular from two years ago

[@extrathicc78]

@@thekaelixchamber it won’t let me respond for some reason when I give specifics idk lol, there’s a video from 2 years ago about it just search for it

[@extrathicc78]

@@thekaelixchamber no idea why but KZbin won’t let me reply lol sorry man I’m sure you can figure out where they are

[@ludwig8336]

It’s honestly crazy how quickly he can put out those 1,5h masterpieces

[@glowindark64]

Excoose me who is you beach

[@ThiagoCRocha-fh6lg]

The Age of The Duskborne Explained: Marika ruled over the Lands between when she withdrawned destined death, After she won Every War. So there is no Wars, There is no Change. With the Golden Order established It can be read as The Current Idea of the World and Order will never die. This is seen as Spirits roam the Lands Between and are lead to the Erdtree to be reborn into the same order as the same person they were. Death does not exists if you are yourself after death and if the world stays the same. When the Mending Rune of Death (Godwyn) is added to Order, they break this idea of constancy. Order will change. The Dead will have a future chosen by themselves. Death is a part of Life and Change is the only constant. Like this, Godwyn witch is soulless can live as a new Body and a New Person. Those that rejected Death and Reincarnation can move foward without needing to start anew. They can have a new start with the experiences they gained and face change however they see fit as long as they to not die.

[@reign1594]

Wouldn't even need this ending if mohg just let miquella do his job.

[@ThiagoCRocha-fh6lg]

@@reign1594 You, have a great point.

[@nautil_us]

I really appreciate the way Ceave talks about philosophy! It's a great balance between "this is a thing some people believe" and "this is not necessarily true but not necessarily false either" and "This Story is (most likely) based on this philosophy, so in the context of this story this philosophy is completely true". Its a much more understandable way (for me) to understand how different philosophies work and how they apply to real life, because you can compare a fictional world to our own and think on where they differ and where they are the same!

[@plushdragonteddy]

that's a great way to phrase it! i've never been able to put a finger on why i like how ceave phrases things, only that i do, but i think this really sums it up nicely. he's very able to explain things both within and outside of the context of the game he's analyzing, and as a result it only ever comes off like the game has a bias, but not ceave himself. sometimes he does get very excited about certain ideas, but even then i get the sense it's more about "isn't this concept so cool" or "doesn't the game do a great job of thematically weaving this in?" rather than him agreeing with them.

[@JackisaMimic]

Excellent video! This was a great literary analysis of Elden Ring. Thanks for taking the time to put in the philosophical research. I don't really have much to add other than you did a great job and this was a very enjoyable and informative video. "Without order nothing can exist-without chaos nothing can evolve. Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.” - Oscar Wilde

[@K8theKind]

Yay you watched it!!! Sorry I was so enthusiastic about it yesterday. I was a bit tipsy and I’m a very happy drunk 🤣😂👏👏👏

[@K8theKind]

I just realised how badly I want to hear you talk about Marika. When are you going to talk about Marika?

[@K8theKind]

The SandKings bit was my favourite! It’s the part that made me feel like you had to know about this video lol. But all the Nietzsche stuff and, ugh, just everything else. What a great video this was. I can’t wait for Miquella’s master plan!!!

[@witherschat]

I am really looking forward to watching this (no time right now, so algo-boosting comment for now), but I'd like to say one thing. I find the old title format better. Having a copy-and-pasted title like this is much less memorable than "Bloodborne, Pregnancy, Nietzche, and God", or "Outer Wilds - An Existentialist Masterpiece". I remember the first time I saw "Super Mario Wonder - The Second Best Platformer Ever Made", where the title alone was so catchy I talked to friends about it. (Note that the title doesn't take away from the sheer quality of the videos, which I still avidly watch.)

[@ClassicPopble]

@@JoseViktor4099 He was talking about the video title, not Elden Ring

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@ClassicPopble Oh sorry.

[@witherschat]

@@ClassicPopble *she, but yes.

[@nautil_us]

I prefer the more poetic/abstract titles as well, but these kind of titles do better with the youtube algorithm. And if the titles get sacrificed to the algorithm but the content stays excellent, I don't mind the less interesting algorithmic titles

[@witherschat]

@@nautil_us Do they really? That's surprising.

[@dusakus]

13:28 "It's a ring-shaped collection of runes, each rune being a law which defines the world's behaviour" Baba is You entered the chat

[@SoullessSith]

WHY DOES CEAVE ALWAYS PUT OUT VIDEOS ABOUT GAMES IM IN THE MIDDLE OF PLAYNIG?! I’ve been playing Majoras Mask on and off for 6 months with that video lonely sitting in my watch later for all that time! Elden Ring was my most wanted to play game for foreeeevvvveeer, and I finally got a PC, about 40 hours in and just beat Morgott, and now I have a great reason to speed it the heck up! Love your vids!

[@lightningfox0654]

Dont rush it! It is a wonderful game, and you should try to explore as much as you can. This video wont go anywhere, and im sure all elden ring fans agree that the first playthrough is something truely special!

[@SoullessSith]

@@lightningfox0654 Don’t plan on rushing it, I look at myself in the mirror every morning and ask myself “Am I going to quickly, do I know how sad Ill be when its all over?” It’s such a surreal experience and I try to take my time to explore each area. I love it dude, you’re 100% right, ima take it slow. Thanks for the hype advice! Also Draconic tree sentinel is a bs boss fight and Greyoll doesn’t deserve to die for 2 levels aint nobody changing my mind there.

[@dyssealex]

boost

[@JoseViktor4099]

"And I never complained about the game repeating boss fights" - That made me laugh, seriously. Thanks for this review Ceave, it was a pleasure seeing this take on the story.

[@BabygirlMiles]

I am blown away by this video... made me want to ask everyone the question this game asks.

[@gaidencastro9706]

Algorithm boost

[@chamtheman551]

Algorithm Boost 😎

[@schazz3929]

Bro I can’t believe they would say that Wow that is best video must share and engage wow Also investment finance crypto for ad revenue

[@jamiecook1522]

Algorithm boost

[@yojirex6374]

Algo boost 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@evidence2839]

algorithm boost 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@animeturnMMD]

7:46 I am a lawyer and this discussion among naturalism, nihilism, morals and ethics is a real tangible thing to us, What is right? What is not? Why? we know that the moral norms, influence ethics, but are all the moral rules good or righ? is something good because is moral? is something moral because is good? what is good? what is bad? why? there is an entire branch of legal studies that is call the philosophy of law which tries to tackle these questions, however the only thing that we can agree upon is that a good law usually is a practical one which at the same time can be adapted to the morals of the time, some of the most ancient laws come from social norms that just work, like do not steal, do not kill, do not rape or do not disrespect your parents and so on, basic rules that keep society working as intended combined with state or communal power to effectively punish offenders.

[@viljamtheninja]

Really fantastic video, you managed to actually express a thematic meaning of Elden Ring that genuinely sounds intentional and embedded in the game rather than just a stretched personal interpretation, and it's the first time I've seen it.

[@simonealcazar816]

He also incorporated GRRM influences to really hit things home. Once he revealed the book he was talking about was GRRM, I was fully lock in. Very few talks about GRRM’s influences which is infuriating especially Miyazaki being a self proclaimed fan but instead just make Berserk connect whether it makes any sense or not.

[@regal-27]

I am always amazed at how you are able to discuss complicated and sensitive topics in a respectful and engaging manner. Absolutely loved this video, and it makes me want to play through Elden Ring again so I can solidify some thoughts on where I agree and disagree with you. I think your interpretation of the overall theme is my favorite, very nice work.

[@phantomtheives]

This was an amazing video! I genuinely hope this video gets pushed through the algorithm, you deserve way more views.

[@AS34N]

Woah the entire video is a masterpeice...but that whole beginning explaining order and Tao was exceptionally done. Bravo 👏

[@MrEshen25]

This video did more for my understanding of Elden ring than probably a 100 hrs of Vaati and Smoughtown. Amazingly well done, sir .

[@zedrinbing]

great point me as well cus he linked the real life inspiration of grrm nd the artistic translation of miyazaki

[@grafhoms]

I didn't expect to get a book recommendation from an elden ring lore video but now that I've read it? Yeah, Sandkings is really well written! ...just like this video! Thanks for making it 🥰

[@WiiBobby]

Oh thank god. Makes me feel less stupid for not knowing.

[@JoseViktor4099]

Let you know. 90% of Elden Ring fans actually aren't sure what the Elden Ring is.

[@ThommyofThenn]

No one really knows, and we assume more well-spoken people do. Elden Ring's lore works as commentary on our own efforts to reconcile our need for meaning with the natural world and the established lore we have around real world religions

[@kitno6415]

Fromsoft sucks at storytelling. Its not your fault for not understanding it.

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@kitno6415 0/10

[@kitno6415]

@@ThommyofThenn you could say i dissagre instead of whatever the fuck that rating means

[@riccardomazzaro1901]

1) The Greater Will isn't an Outer God. In the original Japanese translation of the text, the term Outer God refers to those gods as being outside of the Golden Order; circumstantial evidence makes it pretty clear that the Greater Will (if it even exists) is very different from the Outer Gods, both substantially and on a power level scale. 2) The ring Melina picks up from the ground in the Frenzied Flame ending is actually Torrent's whistle. That being said, the video is phenomenal, just like all the rest of your work. Keep up the good work, mate, you deserve all the credit you're getting for it!

[@simonealcazar816]

While term of Outer God might not be right term to use for the Greater Will, we have plenty of evidence that not only the Greater Will exists (Hyetta, The Elden Beast itself, etc) but that other “Outer” gods function similar to it. Especially sending Envoys of the wills ( Twin bird’s Outer god and Death birds) with the Fingers and the Elden Beast. Not to mention the connection with Empyreans and needing a physical vassal for their Order ei Marika ( Malenia with the Rot god, Miquella with the Formless mother, Ranni, etc). Whatever the Greater Will should be called, it’s pretty obvious it’s very similar to the other Outers Gods. Calling it God would be the more appropriate way to describe it as it is THE god as of now, however due to how Marika is also referred to as god. The Greater Will very much like the Outer Gods would like to know evidence you have to make this claim.

[@Rusty_Spy]

By that definition the only thing that differentiates the Greater Will from other Outer Gods is the labels it's devote followers gave to it. No different from saying the Christan God is different from all other gods because Christianity says it's different.

[@matteoflamigni550]

​​​@@Rusty_Spycompletely wrong. Outer Gods represent forces of nature that the Elden Ring can easily seal and keep into a Rune, like - most importantly - Death. Clearly the ER has no chance of tinkering with the GW as the GW is its creator. Heck, one Outer God even gets sealed into a lake by... a visually impaired swordsman. Good luck trying to seal a demiurgic entity that operates from lightyears of distance. There's a massive difference in scale at work here.

[@jerrybatsford9689]

The christian conception of God IS actually different. Read the church fathers

[@rclaws3230]

​@@Rusty_SpyOuter Gods are embodied ideologies. The Greater Will is Natural Law, or the Monotheistic God, or Nature Itself. Ranni's ending is a massive double-edged sword, obfuscating reality so nobody can be certain just means everyone will draw whatever conclusions they want and go to war still. She's a cosmic midwit and a pawn of Miquella, Miquella who is literally trying to go one step further than Ranni and *destroy reality itself* by finding the Sun and snuffing it out.

[@thomasstone3480]

fwiw the actual philosophy of nihilism, as expressed by someone like camus, is somewhat close to the description of the age of the moon- not a world devoid of meaning, but one in which meaning must come from within, and be created by one's will and one's own actions. meaning that is not a prison but a home, a city, a construct

[@thesnatcher3616]

The idea of meaning coming from within? Isn't that just Jean paul Sartre's model of existentialism? Where due to the "god-shaped" hole in our hearts, yet the alleged absence of a God, people must create their own meaning day by day? It also seems a bit similar to Nietzche as well. Although he believed the human needed to overcome something and obtain a sense of total dominance and independence as the "meaning", if one chooses to interpret it that way.

[@thomasstone3480]

@@thesnatcher3616 sartre and camus have a lot of overlap in that respect, yeah. i mean they were roughly contemporaries and both reacting in large part to the humiliation and horror of the nazi occupation of france, and also to france's ongoing occupation of algeria

[@thesnatcher3616]

​@@thomasstone3480 Makes sense. I feel like current history classes underemphasize the sheer impact WWII had on our contemporary culture, whether it may be pop, ideaological, and societal. It wasn't just six million Jews that were killed. The rest of the Jewish community and the rest of the western world were left with scars that still exist today. And the moral panic of the Cold War just made things worse. Not to mention, Nazis sort of became the new "devils" in our day to day language. Everytime someone does something that on person doesn't like, or defends an idealogy that they disagree with, they either call them "Nazis 2.0" or "Orwellian"(something to do with 1984). Instead of our pop culture heroes fighting demons and devils(or some other equivalent), we(at least in America) fight Nazis and gun them down en masse. Just watch movies like Indiana Jones. It's so weird to think of a world where NONE of this really exists. But as for thoughts on Sartre myself, I am inclinded to disagree with it rather strongly, partially due to my preference for St. Aquinas' "Natural Law"(something Ceave forgot to mention!!! CS Lewis did not come up with!) where a God DOES exist, but also due to how while Sartre's theory sounds nice on paper, it doesn't really do much for a person who's inherent moral character can be described as "less then socially acceptable". Sartre himself, along with his pseudo wife, allegedly molested a large number of his students, with his wife's help. And I very much doubt his ideals in this matter really did much to hinder him. There was a whole memoir released from one of his victims I think. Existencialism sounds nice, but it doesn't lend itself to create a form of discipline and order that the individual may not already possess. It assumes that humans will always make the right choice I feel. Maybe I'm misinterpreting though. But the idea of creating new meaning can easily be abused and doesn't create a situation where an indvidual can be called out on. But I guess Natural Law can be the same as people, even in the Christian worldview, constantly disobey it and don't care about ramifications of said disobedience. Not to mention it might get a little too close to a form of "utilitarianism" if it's enforced. Idk though. I'm still young and I'm still learning.

[@thomasstone3480]

@@thesnatcher3616 ultimately i think if you judge a philosophy by the worst actions of its adherents, none of them come out well- for me, i find the idea of an external and absolute morality uncompelling, and that the politics of most of the people i find most harmful in the world are informed by at least a claimed belief in some absolute external standard that allows them to enforce their ideal of a rigid and 'natural' status quo upon the most vulnerable. obviously, you are correct that there's nothing intrinsic about existentialism or nihilism that means the self-derived morality of it can't be grievously wrong, but within myself at least i think i can argue from first principles why i think x or y is moral based on what i see and think and feel and not external dogma that feels frequently inconsistent with decency and humanity

[@thesnatcher3616]

@thomasstone3480 I see. Although, going by that logic, no form of any law can be posited as it may infringe upon the individual as it all depends on how one defines an absolute standard. Absolute standard in the context of law? man? indivdual? Or God? On the topic of God, again, there are differing views on his role in terms of morality. Will he lead us to the correct morality? Is their a natural conciouness? What is natural and what isn't? Not to mention, you're assuming that you have no subconscious external dogma of your own that may either supplement or poison some of your judgments. How much of external dogma is in reality, subconous dogma? If anything, the idea and value of an individual can be seen as an absolute "value." In fact, by what standard is "being harmful" to the world "harmful" at all? Surely, there is some benefit being gained by those in power who seek to suppress the marginalized. Obviously, both you and I will say this is wrong. Why do we say so? Because people are suffering? Because of empathy? But who is to say we should be governed by empathy at all? What about people who feel no such thing? Or negotiate said empathy away for some other dogma? I feel like for so many people, it really is just one dogma vs. another Dogmas vs. Dogmas. Ideas vs ideas. Morals vs. Morals. My point is that no one can truly live without imposing some form of standard upon either themselves or others. Everyone is informed by some kind of external dogma. Have you ever asked yourself why you think that decency and humanity even matter? Perhaps it may just "feel right." A lot of other things may feel right for some people, yet we condemn them. And you wouldn't do everything that felt right either for the "good of humanity." But why do you even consider the good of humanity to inform a "moral" action? Perhaps enforcing said oppresive policies that undermine decency and humanity felt right to them? Not to mention, are you not going against your initial claim of categorizing the worst actions of an adherent to an ideaology to check it's validity being a bad methodology(which I would agree with), yet you condemn those who hold the ideaology who hold an external standard that is to be enforced or coerced(physically, rationally, etc.) as also being heinous, and use that to form your opinion on it. But you have granted that it is for you and you alone. And in case you're wondering, yes, I caught your subtext. I know exactly what you are referring to. Especially in the midst of our country's political jungle. Odd since you brought it up, as I mentioned Thomas Aquinas. But I will not put words into your mouth. I am not really debating. I probably can't debate you and win. I am still young and learning. I'm just spitballing and holding ideas up to scrutiny.

[@Silverstar114]

I'm always impressed by how thorough you are with not only the information provided, but in your explanations and interpretations. Constantly looking forward to new uploads!

[@deweyck6820]

Awesome Video! I think the game essentially is Marika’s story of survival. It seems the current god of an age has to die or vacate to an Empyrean for a new era to begin. The player killing the Erdtree Beast ends the Greater Will’s control over Marika's "destined death" I think this is why we see so many dead finger readers in Leyndell because they predicted her death, possibly that a Tarnished will ursurp her. Also why Godfrey gets to the Erdtree before us. I think Marika intended Godfrey as a Tarnished made by her to become her consort cheating the prophecy but the player wins instead

[@li__on6403]

When discussing the whole opposites being the driving force of change thing, I had to immediately think of dialectics. As far as I understand the main concept of dialectical philosophy is that change is the result of contradictions being resolved (where resolved doesn't necessarily mean that the contradiction is gone. Idk it's weird). Maybe that would have been interesting to mention as well.

[@greatbigeyeball]

This aligns with my interpretations as well kind of. I always thought of the Elden Ring itself as the player having agency to choose how the world is ordered and the vagueness of the storytelling reflects the uncertainty of making those decisions. Some part of the vague decision making made me feel a bit uncomfortable, which upon reflection feels like a great place to learn from. Great video, you're really coming into your own here on this channel.

[@dyangoh1646]

As someone who loves learning new things and has watched almost of all lore videos of Elden Ring, I am impresses that I have found something that has profoundly given me a better understanding of a game I felt I wouldn't learn much more from until the dlc. Subbed. I can't explain easily how much this made Elden Ring make more sense on a deeper level for me. Thank you

[@Imaginita]

I think you could also interpret Ranni’s end as being the Scientific Revolution. Not only does that stuff about the stars and moon evoke imagery of the space race and sci-fi exploration, but the idea of uncertainty no matter what you do, being unable to reach the “order,” is very reminiscent of how, no matter how much science we discover, it always leads to more and more questions. Think of how we thought we discovered the building blocks of the universe in atoms, but then we found out atoms are made of electrons and protons and neutrons, and those are made of quarks, and so on ad infinitum, and we don’t even understand how time and gravity work! And all of this stuff which makes up the “order” is impossible to directly see, feel, touch, and even believing in it is difficult. It’s the idea of religion being replaced by science, but without succumbing to nihilism.

[@miirshroom]

Agreed. Up to interpretation, but I find that there are traces to support a science metaphor throughout the game. Various colours of fire that can be matched to elemental flame tests (Kalium is named for pot ash and burns the purplish hue of St. Trina's sleep flame). Several characters with the standard abbreviations of elements tacked on to the ends of their names ("Na" referring to sodium, and etc). The naming similarity between "Smithing Stone" and "Smithsonite" - a zinc ore that can be used to make the metal brass that resembles gold (in general FromSoft seems to be very deliberate about mentioning generic "metal" or the specific use of Iron, Copper, etc). Possibly even in more subtle ways, like that a shield design here or there will suggest the image of a Lewis dot or Shell model of an atom. I generally get an impression that the FromSoft research and writing teams saw untapped potential in exploring the way that humanity has carried the ghosts of the old gods with us in the naming of many elements in the periodic table.

[@LucasDimoveo]

I love when video essays about games include more context and references. I want more deep readings of text/ meta text, and less play by play rehashing of the plot. I hope this video gets a lot more views!

[@marseldonchi3577]

This deserves so much more views. This should be brought to all the elden ring lore youtube channels. Please tag them!!!

[@asahinainu]

Along your line of thinking, I believe Fia's ending could be the counterpoint to the Dung Eaters ending. If the dungeater seeks a worldview where the living are all sinful so that no one can cast the first stone, Fia seeks a world where there is no divine punishment.

[@asahinainu]

The dead will not be judged by the circumstances of their life and death whether they are follow the Order or not. Dungeater feels like Original Sin dogma, where the only salvation is through forgivness as we are irredeemable by ourselves. Fia feels more like Marcus Aurelious where the dead should not be judged by how devout they were in life.

[@AetherKnight1]

I've never gotten around to playing Elden Ring but after watching your awesome video I'll try it ASAP. Keep up the great content!

[@Fellow_Follower]

Algorithm boost. This is brilliant, but I’m afraid that the beginning is so dense that it will lose a lot of casuals. Please keep bringing us this style of video. Loved the philosophy you covered here.

[@shilohmagic7173]

isn't the beginning of every ceave perspective video pretty dense?

[@glowindark64]

I'm trying to kill elden beast with axe of godfrey rn

[@witherschat]

​@@shilohmagic7173 Usually the philosophy crash course comes in art 3 or 4, not part 1.

[@shilohmagic7173]

@@witherschat oh. I like the philosophy crash course, it's like, my favorite part of every ceave perspective video.

[@witherschat]

@@shilohmagic7173 I'm not saying it's bad. Just that it might scare new viewers lol.

[@natebookout811]

I think constructivism is another way you could understand the different endings' responses to nihilism. Basically the idea that reality is not so much an objective truth, but is shaped by how we go about thinking about reality in the first place, including our values regarding what should and shouldn't be.

[@spacejambluray2591]

Don’t listen to that guy about the title, I wouldn’t have clicked on any of those titles and I didn’t but this drew me in for the perspective on the games lore and grew to a wonderful synthesis on the reflection of the real world in Elden ring

[@MoldyChunk]

This is a really good analysis of the themes and endings, awesome stuff

[@dadevi]

Elden Ring is a mishmash of legendary books that came before it, the lord of the rings series, and the eternal champion series. Both series reveal that the powerful object everyone is fighting over is a corrupting force, set to destablize. The Eternal Champion series goes a step further and posits that the protagonist is out to balance Chaos and Order, and will fight on either side depending on which side has the most power at the time.

[@ratcatcher2048]

The way I interpreted Fia's ending was that before Marika removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, there were a people who lived as undead (known as Those Who Live In Death) and were labeled heretics simply for existing since as they revived before the rune of death was removed, they weren't able to be revived in the "holy" way like all of the other characters were. As a result, they were hunted by the Golden Order to ensure that only the Erdtree's resurrection method existed. I'm not sure if Fia herself lives in death, but I believe she made the mending rune to replace the Erdtree's resurrection with undeath since it's not inherently bad, it's just frowned upon by the current ruling class. Thematically, it could be considered to be similar to a different religion that believes in rebirth after death (I'm not going to try and pin a specific one because I don't know enough about them) that's not the current accepted ruling religion and thus is othered simply for existing. Also support this man on Patreon STAT, I made an account just to support him.

[@plushdragonteddy]

ohh i like that interpretation! makes total sense to me. it'd be like saying "stop trying to get into valhalla and start trying to get into heaven" lol

[@TheFishySpartan]

Thank you for this video! I've seen a few interpretations but the way you presented yours and how its connects with nihilism finally made things click.

[@Laggy_McPing]

Best ER lore video I’ve seen so far, great job!

[@babayaga4320]

I'm not sure what award you should win for this, but whatever it is, you should win it.

[@trufreedom]

Very interesting take! Subscribed, liked, comment(s) for boosting.

[@AmericanDaughters4eva]

This video is unreal. Thanks for doing all this work and going into so much detail!

[@Darthtanos]

the sheer amount of content that you didn't even get to touch in this video is insane... i would love a series of videos of your thoughts on the game honestly. great, very interesting, video. i've enjoyed everyone of the videos on this channel, and always make sure i have a day that I can set aside a solid block of time to watch your videos without interruption. looking forward to whatever you do next.

[@mlsasd6494]

As always, an amazing analysis. Very much entertained. Leaving a comment for the algorithm

[@KaijuRhino]

your stuff always amazes me, great work

[@Elitistb616]

"Some people find meaning in the belief of their own superiority over others, and derive meaning by trying to structure the world around their superiority" - You mention the Germans and Austrians ... who were quite heavily Christian during that time period. They were not following the Enlightenment, they were rebelling against it, seeking to return to god and country. Their viewpoint seems to me to be reflected in their take on Nietzsche. They quote mined everything they wanted about great men, but threw out his anti-fascism stances. Basically Nazi's paid much more attention to Nietzsche's sister than him.

[@PoissonedApple1]

I always thought of Ranni's ending being about abandoning faith in god and replacing it with science and empirical seek of knowledge. Never thought of the part of taking responsibility for self beliefs and I like this interpretation a lot

[@FFNOJG]

IT IS NOT SCEE-ON... IT IS PRONOUNCED S-EYE-ON... a scion is a branch from one tree grafted on to another. that is why godwyn is called a scion of the golden bough. he is a single part of the golden order.

[@wideface344]

Great video man. Amazing work!

[@BackspinZX]

Okay so now I want to actually play this game, this was a fascinating video essay

[@DementedDuskull]

*Videogame video essay drops* Oh boy, a lesson on existential philosophy!

[@Fallub]

Again, a wonderful and very well researched video. Thank you very much. I am already excited for a possible gameplay analysis.

[@amresmaeel972]

Great video! Hard work shows

[@randomletters69]

I am just amazed by your work. Although I didn´t get to play Elden Ring myself, your analysis of the philosophy and its counteracting themes is easily the most interesting and thoughtprovoking video I seen in a while. It really is a joy to dive into new topics and beliefs while discovering the way the game chooses to present them. I am already looking forward to your upcoming videos. Or in other words: Thank you for your analysis and your brilliant work. Lots of hugs

[@Priza447]

I liked this video! I enjoy longform video essays! You hear that algorithms?! It’s good!

[@DLYoung-bu5ui]

Regarding the Elden Beast's sword, I thought that was Radagon / Marika's body that the beast repurposed for its weapon (hence the twisting blade design). And the hilt resembles the Radagon statues we see in a few places in the game. I thought it was fitting given Ranni's desire to not be used as a tool for the Greater Will, as failing to defeat us at the end resulted in the Elden Beast (and by proxy the Greater Will) throwing out all pretense and just straight up using Marika / Radagon as weapon to stop us.

[@lilili765]

Every video i learn something new about different ideologies en history. Keep doing what you're doing. You're one of the only ones on this platform that actually is interesting and informative. Keep doing what you love and i'll be there for all the video's to come.

[@JackisaMimic]

Sandkings mentioned! Can’t wait to watch this! One of my viewers recommended your channel and video, looking forward to watching this!

[@K8theKind]

Wweeeeee you mean your #1 fan!!! 🤣😂

[@matteoflamigni550]

I am not sure how to say it without sounding like an asshole, but while this video was well-crafted, enjoyable, informative, and clearly the work of a learned and talented person, The creator clearly had the same level of understanding of ER as anyone (eg myself) could muster after a single and superficial playthrough, which is to say not much. It is filled with holes and errors to the point it is paradoxically thoughtful and deep about real world issues as much as misguiding within the world and philosophy of ER. I suppose one should commend Ceave for the courage of having made a content evidently without looking on other creators who treaded before him, at least.

[@ThiagoCRocha-fh6lg]

Farum Asula also have a Dragon Corpse in the Midle of it Giving it Order. The Storm is holding the Chaos Together. Thats a great fucking point

[@eddyh5]

This is why I believe Ranni's ending to be the best by far. I would even say it's the "true" or "ideal" ending.

[@weebovv3176]

Everyone must watch this man, KZbin algorithm.

[@theinfantmetroid]

werd mir das videi jetzt mal zum schlafengehen anhören und dann morgen ordentlich schauen. hilft sicher mit den stats auch ein bisschen 😁😁 aber erstmal vielen dank für die arbeit, die du in die perspective videos steckst. ich hab mir immer schon längere videos von dir gewünscht, und freu mich dementsprechend immer extrem wenn von dem kanal was neues in meiner abobox ist. also danke 🙏🙏

[@BrillouinBoi]

I personally like the theory that Melina is some kind of spirit projection of Miquella.

[@Xanthelei]

I *think* the idea with the Prince's rune of death ending is that you're incorporating life after death back into the Ring in a way fundamentally different to how it was done by Merika. Merika's version is essentially reincarnation - you die, are taken up into the Erd tree, and are reborn from it. With Godwyn's rune, you die and aren't ever reborn, but still you live on in the way Godwyn does. The real issue is we don't really know how Godwyn lives on after death... we just assume that his soul can't truely die until his body does (thus the comments about him lacking a true death), thus it's alive in some way somewhere. What I always wondered is does that ending leave the world with an ever growing number of zombies? Or does it lead to a Dark Souls type world where everyone goes Hollow in the end?

[@thekaelixchamber]

The difference between The Age of The Duskborn's death and The Golden Order's death is that Marika made it so that death doesn't exist and essentially made her own death which only works for those who worship the Golden Order or those given grace and when they die they return to the Erd Tree's roots and be rebirthed. The Duskborn's death I believe is literally just immortality, when you die, you live again in Death. Which may mean to live within death or as death, as a quote unquote "dead" person.

[@Chessheromusic]

It's miquellas sub for the erd tree and golden order It's a new path of life and death "I will endure all manner of heritical power to save ashina" miquella

[@thekaelixchamber]

@@Chessheromusic So a better life, death, and rebirth system? Sounds great! Guess I'm gonna be a consort again *sprays mouth perfume**

[@Chessheromusic]

@@thekaelixchamber haha well yea But Mohgwyn didn't know he was kidnapping an empty vessel as Miquella had already used the halig tree to divest himself of his cursed body Without a soul the body grows direction less like godwyn The reason the withered hand can take you to the land of shadows or the underworld is bc the vessel is dead Like in death stranding where bridge babies are born partly in death by a brain dead mother. Miquellas old body works as a vessel partly in death to underworld The halig tree is geographically literally in the shadow of the erdtree And symbolically is its shadow Damn the writers understand a lot about the history of the world Like why gold. Why is dune or Star Wars on a sand planet???! The historical meaning of gold The reason it's what's sought through the philosophers stone This shit runs soooo deep If you had an idea of how brilliant this was?! Maybe you do but this fiction is steeped in truth That's why it resonates with most Those who don't get it Really don't get anything Sad but true

[@Chessheromusic]

@@thekaelixchamber ha indeed Most people haven't a clue how historically accurate Elden ring is - about the start of mankind and our relationship to our creators Elden ring is a pretty in depth story of all that happened From the scared geometry of the tree of life In the Elden ring itself To why a gold? People don't understand how deep this shit is From the war the Catholic Church had when in itself Between the believers that did the sign of the cross w two fingers and those who taught 3 was correct and 2 blasphemous To gold only being a precious medal bc that's what were told and no longer have any understanding of its true power But the ancient summer Ian's with legends of our creator the anunaki They buried their dead with gold To freya making a pact everything In Midgard to not ever hurt baldur, the golden boy Except mistletoe of course To Marika sealing away death after Godwyn demise Baldurs death created an earthquake , an eclipse, and the long night started in fimbul winter Proceeding the start of ragnorak Or twilight of the gods Or the end of the world as it's commonly known Now Messmer ,miquellas older reg haired brother May have been the person to massacre the giants Much like the red haired Thor and his hammer It goes on and on W the goal of the philosophers stone to make gold Unalloyed gold

[@reign1594]

This game is too good, man. Thanks for that🫡​@Chessheromusic

[@bcpeters1457]

Would not the moon ending emply that absolute meaning still exists, it just isnt seen?

[@robertousch6129]

weren't we just talking about how to make mario run through an entire game without collecting those shiny, but deadly coins? And now were taking on christianity as a whole? damn

[@Alloveck]

I noticed the "two fingers + three fingers = a complete five fingered hand" thing myself, but then quickly discounted it for two reasons. First: This only works if you exclusively count the two Finger things you the player personally interact with. But doing so would be pretty arbitrary, because there are definitely more Finger things out there, such as the one Ranni kills, and the dead ones inexplicably decaying on top of towers. If you count those as well- and I see no reason you shouldn't, the world doesn't revolve around your character's personal journey after all- then the math doesn't work out so nice. Second: Sure, a standard human hand has five fingers. But continuing along the human anatomy comparison route, standard human hands come in pairs. So if you're going with some sort of "hands of the creator" concept, then where's the other hand worth of fingers? It wouldn't make sense to be the other dead fingers, because they all seem to be two-fingered Finger things. And no amount of pairs will add up to the five remaining fingers needed for another hand. Though if you discount the odd thing out with three fingers, (which doesn't seem entirely arbitrary since it seems to be the one rebel of the group... probably?) than five two-fingered Finger things could combine to make a proper pair of hands' worth of fingers. In which case... alive or dead, just how many two-fingered Finger things were in the game again? And one last smaller issue: If you're smashing the fingers together into one hand, then the palm parts should be similarly additively combined, and I can't help but feel like combining the two palms of the two and three Fingers as they are would make for a weirdly wide hand.

[@mookgoon]

well-researched, insightful, 90 minutes... certified banger

[@positivecontacts]

Amazing analysis. Thank you. I will watch repeatedly. On my Elden Ring playlist. Top quality.

[@MungkaeX]

Ceave and the Gaming Historian dropping massive videos in the same day an hour apart? Well there goes my evening.

[@Banana-senpai]

I think one of the strongest inspirations of Edlen Ring's pantheon and mythopoeia is NOT classic and norse religions, but actually Gnosticism and it's concepts of: Emanation. The spontaneous act of a superior being projecting a part of themselves to Create. Starting with The One and uknowable God called Monad, with this process emerges less divine, less perfect pairs of abstract concepts or beings called Aeons in bound pairs (Syzygies). This process can be repeated by lesser Aeons like a staircase which creates less conceptual, more physical Aeons. Syzygies. Godly Aeons of concepts and/or entities, emanated as pairs. In the process of emanation the pairs are needed. Sophia. There are different interpretations of Sophia, but the general concept is that when Sophia, an Aeon birthed without a pair, emanates, she is separated from the wholeness of the Pleroma, and in her longing she embodies materiality and soul, and in this state she emanates the Demiurge, a God blinded to the whole of the Pleroma or fullness of existence. In his ignorance and hubris, believing himself the superior being, creates his host of Archons (sometimes angels) as co-actors, the physical realm, and mortal beings. Gnosis. Unknowabl-y to the Demiurge, Sophia infuses the mortals with a part of herself, the spiritual spark, in hopes that they can achieve enlightenment or Gnosis and so be reunited with herself, and in turn herself with the whole of the Pleroma. In this way, the ascension of mortals comes as an opposition to the Demiurge's authority and he acts as an adversary. Later in the lore comes to exist Christ as the syzygy of Sophia in an attempt to guide the mortals and make the Pleroma whole again. There's a lot to extract from this, but finding which aspect (if not multiple ones) of gnosticism is the reflection of Marika will make all other pieces to fall in place. Marika could be Sophia and her giving and taking away grace is the divine spark, while Radagon is the Demiurge and the demigods are the Archons (did I mention there are seven Archons and we have seven Great Runes?), while higher concepts like the Outer Gods (disconnected from materiality) are the Aeons. But Marika could be the Demiurge herself (as the guidance of grace comes from the erdtree and not her) and Radagon the highest Archon called Yaldabaoh (sometimes interpreted as the Demiurge himself) with Sophia being the Greater Will. Or maybe the Greater Will is the Demiurge, while all the Gods and Demigods are other lesser beings like Archons and angels who do his bidding.

[@witherschat]

Post-watch algo boost comment + thoughts. Great as always, with a quality that makes any topic interesting. I didn't disagree with your analysis on this video, but I swera you could write an entire video essay saying things I disagree with one after the other and I'd still watch it.

[@Vandreand]

Let's pray to the add revenue gods so we can get more elden ring videos.

[@J72_PR0]

I wish I had money to donate, these videos are incredible

[@cllaay]

Woah the channel isn’t even a year old? This is seriously impressive quality and super interesting!

[@sunbleachedangel]

the whole "3 fingers + 2 fingers" has been debunked a million times already, come on Ceave

[@alexanderthegreat4817]

Yess new ceave video I hope it finally blows up and u get the views you deserve

[@lennystudios3.14]

This is the first game you’ve covered so far that I don’t really know much about, excited to watch it

[@chamtheman551]

I legit am going to order and eat a whole large pizza while watching this. No one can stop me, and it will be lit

[@PhoenixClank]

Flambée? I thought that was for crêpe, not pizza.

[@fredranzalot4849]

You shouldn't, it's against the golden order

[@ninjamonkey6193]

sounds like an amazing time hehe

[@heyhonpuds]

Did you enjoy it?

[@chamtheman551]

@heyhonpuds yes I did. I saved the rest for when I'm gonna finish the video (which is now)

[@BlazeMakesGames]

I think that Goldmask's Ending could maybe be interpreted slightly differently with your lens, (though just in general I love this overall interpretation of the game so far) Goldmask as a person is someone who spent countless hours, days, probably years or even centuries doing nothing but calculating endlessly while staring at the erdtree. And upon realizing the fickleness of the gods, basically omitted them from his 'perfect' order solution. I agree that his ending is meant to represent a doubling down on religious-style dogma, but more specifically I think it is meant to represent a dogma that at least claims to be based in objective morality created by humans rather than anything based on the gods. Essentially I think it suggests that maybe if we sit down long enough and just do the math, we can figure out an objective set of moral rules akin to religious dogma, but instead of being based in unfounded belief in a higher power, it is based entirely on humanity's own beliefs and raw calculus. But of course, goldmask is still merely a man just like anyone else. So while this idea sounds reasonable on paper, it is ultimately up to you if you believe that humanity is even capable of producing such a set of "objective" moral beliefs and if those beliefs should really be applied to everyone everywhere no matter what. I think a very *very* key word here is that it is a rune that *ATTEMPTS* to perfect the golden order. Ultimately, such an attempt is likely futile, but does that mean that we shouldn't even try at all? Or is this idea of trying to create an objective morality flawed to begin with? That is ultimately up to you to decide. --- To Touch on some of the other endings. It seems like the Dung Eater Ending and the Frenzy Flame ending can be seen as sorta parallels but opposites of each other. I think they both represent a Nihilistic belief, acknowledging that the universe has no meaning, but with opposite takeaways from that fact. The Dung Eater Ending basically as you said points out that if everything is equally meaningless then nothing is inherently less meaningful than anything else. There's nothing stopping you from doing whatever you want, so you're free to do anything because there's nothing holding you back. The downtrodden aren't any less important than the upper class because neither was important to begin with. etc etc. So it is the ultimate freedom to just do whatever you want. However it is worth keeping in mind that the Dung Eater is a serial killer who goes around defiling corpses and whatnot so like yeah, it is a philosophy that can be very freeing in many ways and that can be a relief to many people. But it is also a philosophy that basically says that there's no point in worrying about the consequences to your actions because nothing matters so why not become a serial killer. Meanwhile the Frenzy Flame represents true nihilism. Nothing matters. Thus there is no point in life existing at all. We might as well just burn it all down because why even bother trying when the sun is gonna explode and burn it all away someday no matter what. --- And to touch on Fia's ending. I think that it returning the world to a state before the Golden Order is purposeful. I think that the lens of your interpretation basically says that Fia's ending is the true resurrection of god. Or at the very least the belief in the importance of death and the idea of an afterlife. It is an attempt to return to a state of the world before god died. Thus I think that Fia's ending is the opposite of Goldmask's ending. Goldmask seeks to find a perfect set of beliefs and morality based entirely in humanity and scientific knowledge, rejecting the idea of the gods entirely. Meanwhile Fia's ending is to return to the idea of an unknowable afterlife. To give death meaning and to believe in an unknowable higher power once again. In turn maybe we could extend this metaphor to say that "Those who live in death" are those who still cling to their old religious beliefs. (Which I guess makes D into r/atheism lol), they "live in death" because they do not fear their own death due to their belief in death having meaning, the belief in an afterlife. The persecution of those who live in death is essentially the persecution of those who still cling onto those old religious beliefs in a world that has moved on beyond such beliefs. And Fia ending such persecution is returning the world to a state where everyone returns to believing in an afterlife once again. It is a complete regression to the way things used to be. --- Finally, might as well touch on Ranni's ending. I think I pretty much fully agree with your interpretation here. It is a complete rejection of an objective philosophy entirely. The ultimate thing that unifies all of the other endings is that they are attempting to come up with a universal philosophy that everyone should have to follow. Even the Dung Eater's philosophy is that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want regardless of what anyone else believes. But Ranni's ending is that everyone should have to come up with their own set of moral beliefs, but with the acknowledgement that they might be wrong or contradictory with someone else. It is the acknowledgement that a universal truth may in fact not exist or that it should not exist. As such I guess that this opposes Goldmask most directly who seeks to create the ultimate perfect universal moral philosophy. So like I said when discussing his ending, ultimately which of these two endings you prefer comes down to whether you think a true universal objective morality is possible, or if people should have to figure out a good set of morals for themselves and the context that they live in. And again, it is worth mentioning that Ranni is a person who has killed a ton of people and even acknowledges that her order will result in a lot of people potentially being afraid or even suffering because ultimately it doesn't answer the question of what humanity as a whole should do after the death of god. It says that you should figure it out for yourself. And the things Ranni did are justified to herself as necessary to achieve her goals. But she at least acknowledges that those actions were bad and at least that they had a purpose, whereas again someone like the Dung Eater would say that you should be allowed to do bad things because nothing matters and there doesn't need to be a purpose to justify it.

[@doggodoggo3000]

I feel like goldmasks ending is particularly grim. The greater will, golden order, and maricka are all guilty causing of unimaginable death and suffering. And just look at where that ending leaves Maricka. crucified, broken, and imprisoned. regardless of how bad she was, i dont think Goldmasks ending has much to do with morality. Homie is a freak. A very extreme religious ascetic. I think its just dogma from him. Blind adherence to the order and faith. i have alot of theories on this and none of them are very good. I vibe with Rannis ending the most. its just a return to a more natural order i think. the uncertainty of it is the scary part. Ranni got her hands dirty, but i think it pales compared to what the order and maricka have done.

[@BlazeMakesGames]

well yeah I mean I think that there are very charitable ways to interpret goldmask's ending, but at the end of the day it is ultimately about enforcing a dogma created by one man who was devoted to the previous order. Sure it may now exclude what was considered problematic in the past, (the gods) and is rooted in mathmatics. But it is still ultimately a dogma created by a single man and their beliefs of what is right and wrong, and as such is also colored heavily by their belief in the previous order. It " attempts to fix" the previous order but based on one's own view of things that order may not be worth trying to salvage. And for all we know Goldmask's own philosophies may not be that great. Plus by claiming to be "perfect" that means that if anyone ever finds a flaw between now and forever, then the entire thing collapses in on itself and falls apart and now we're back to square one until someone else tries to find a better solution. In that sense I guess you could view it as progress in a way, going through intervals of trying to come to a solution, breaking apart the old one, and improving upon what didn't work. But it feels like a very unstable one. With each new order claiming to be even better than the previous one and this time it'll surely last forever, only for it to eventually crumble like all the rest.

[@t.k.5972]

the philosophical hammer = the hammer that destroys the old rune and tries to mend it at the same time.

[@thekaelixchamber]

Finally thank god! I was wondering for so long about the philosopical topics Elden Ring explores, other than Nihilism, Existentialism, Realism, etc.

[@justcallmewhat]

The part where you said you are puzzled I think you got wrong. I think by restoring the rune of death and and having life within death it removes immortality from the land and returns the cycle of having life within death. ie: you're dead before you're born then life happens and then you're dead again after.

[@CheShiny]

The title reminds me of Majora's Mask vid👀

[@pholidia8175]

Algo boost, this is brilliant

[@alexandergigliotti7327]

i actually feel like u gave an answer to an unanswerable question that we didnt even know… wow. thank you and well done sir

[@Cinnamon_Shaey]

HOLY FLIP that was good!

[@jayjasespud]

Godfrey is sold by the Order as the first Elden Lord, but we know Placidusax (at least) preceded him. Also, have you seen Max Derat's video about Elden RIng's relation to Alchemy? Particularly, Marika / Radagon are (or become) a Rebis