Stephanie Kelton - “Finding the Money” & “The Deficit Myth” | The Daily Show

Stephanie Kelton, bestselling author of “The Deficit Myth” and professor of economics and public policy, talks to Jordan Klepper and Ronny Chieng about changing our understanding of government spending through MMT, or Modern Money Theory. She also explains how the national deficit is not a number to be fearful of, but can be put to good use, and how government finance is far more flexible than you might think. #DailyShow #StephanieKelton #Money
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[@spantry]

“We only have empty pockets when it comes to the morally right things to do… but when it comes to unlimited war, we seem to be able to invent that money very easily.”

[@KiloMintoni-kg4kn]

That's why a dollar is worth what...ten cents?

[@robertk617]

@@KiloMintoni-kg4kn the USD is quite strong against other currencies.....I don't understand how and this MMT discussion confuses me more, I think?

[@LanaDell077]

@@KiloMintoni-kg4kn Of your dollars are worth 10 cents, would you send them all to me? I get the impression you don't care for them very much. 😆

[@delta5297]

My general sense is that America can take on more debt. And we should be using that deficit spending to help ordinary people, not to give tax breaks to corporations and billionaires.

[@LanaDell077]

If you look at Stephanie's book cover, it is to foster an economy for the people. Please read THE DEFICIT MYTH. It's a NY Times bestseller, easy to read, and on audible.

[@Slayqueenatron]

Ronnie is actually SO helpful in this segment!

[@wibblywobblytimeywimey345]

Yes! It seemed like he pretended not to understand so she would have to explain more clearly for pea-brains like me. Thanks Ronnie!

[@PanteraRossa]

Economists have been trying to sell MMT since Japan in the 90s. It's bs and he got tired of all the nonsensical buzzwords and talking in circles.

[@grumpyoldguy6117]

MMT is the new bushiness card/letterhead, 5 INcome - 15 EXITpense = [-10 ] with a hope for a Return On Investment of 20 to cover Principal and Interest!!!!!! ALSO look at the ones in charge of the Pocketbook, healthcare or a new rifle or DEI or highspeed internet at a lower cost?? I am posting this to get feed back.

[@ChannelMath]

@@PanteraRossa Are you joking? 90% of economists have been trying to discredit MMT since the 90s, and they've got clear incentives to do so. It's more popular among bankers, because bankers are used to thinking of money as debt they just create from nothing. Economists usually don't think about money at all (since it's just another commodity in most neoclassical modeling)

[@notoriouslybratty]

Honestly I was kinda tuning out until I heard Ronnie chime in as I have it on in the background. Ronnie caught my attention by making me laugh. Reminds me of the old Colbert Report interviews.

[@joshwalker7460]

this new era of daily show greatness has got me feeling things. they've leveled up.

[@coolioso808]

We should also consider levelling up as a species in a new socio-economic system fit for the 21st Century. Economists with heart and brains like Kate Raworth, Jason Hickel and Richard Wolff, for example are worth checking out. For community system change we can look to One Small Town Contributionism type models where we do it because we can, for the people, by the people.

[@YT-Lucas]

I never knew I needed a Laurel and Hardy interview team, until now. This format worked great!

[@whazzat8015]

Now Ollie....

[@RedRat98074]

The is classic teaching: think Socrates and stooge.

[@whazzat8015]

@@RedRat98074 Nyuk nyuk nyuk? That's why they made Curley drink the hemlock.

[@MichelleVisageOnlyFans]

You're being sarcastic, right? It was painful to watch and all because of Ronnie. Cringe!

[@RachelBlomstrom]

​@MichelleVisageOnlyFans I bet you're fun at parties 🙄

[@paulasmith4668]

Klepper is brilliant. Explains so succinctly and clearly.

[@sassysls1851]

This reminds me of a recent clip I saw of Rep Katy Porter trying to explain to her colleagues that for every dollar invested in early childhood programs would give our country a return of $4. Except Porter’s explanation made way more sense to me. 😉

[@closethockeyfan5284]

It's considerably more depending on where invested. Almost $10 if going to exceptional youth services organizations

[@0e0]

she should be president

[@presence5426]

Californians not voting for Katie Porter is embarrassing

[@stephenriggs8177]

I think the word "investment" is important to use, in these discussions. Our government invests in education and in national security because they are widely seen as a worthwhile use of resources. The same can be said for battling climate change, fostering the growth of domestic manufacturing, and keeping the citizenry healthy.

[@vertualsurfing]

My 'GITUS' Economics STILL Makes The Most Sense to Me.. The Li'l Green Pieces of Paper We Use to 'GITUS-This'.. &.. 'GITUS-That'..

[@nomadicroadrat]

Best 7 minute interview in a long time. Klepper doing the straight nerd who has done the research, Chieng the wise co-host, making sure the crowd doesn't get lost in the weeds and keeping Kelton from losing the audience. Well played. Yes, most deftly played.

[@repealthepatriotact]

What?? No. That was a confusing disaster that left out the crucial basic foundation that government finance is based on. I know exactly how all that works and why it is what it is today, and she was a trainwreck, babbling around the MMT economics instead of a clear roadmap. This is not new information, she is just building word salads around it making it very confusing.

[@mikebockey4125]

@@repealthepatriotact, maybe you need to watch it again. i thought she spoke quite clearly and was easily understandable. to put it simply, all she was saying is that mmt is a mindset. we’re actually already living in that mindset, we just haven’t acclimated ourselves to it. the only other thing that i enjoyed about the things that she said was that we’ve had a national deficit for several decades, except for 4 years under bill clinton, the only economically successful president a very long time. -and for the longest time, the republicans number one most hated guy ever. lol. speaks volumes about republicans doesn’t it?

[@69Kevrod2012]

"7 minute interview" about MMT that lasted almost 16 min... really makes you wonder if numbers have any meaning left whatsoever 😜

[@samgamgee7384]

@@mikebockey4125 I have watched it again and read the comments. I still don't get it. It just seems an attitude change, not actual more working money. She's talking but her words have no meaning. Can you explain what MMT is? I still don;t see how it is anything at all.

[@closethockeyfan5284]

​@@samgamgee7384 Basically it's pointing out the fact a federal government cannot be indebted to itself. It is the issuer of the currency, and the dollar is just a measuring tool that compares the values of actual goods and services. If we consider the government issuing currency "deficit," then by definition the government can only get a truly "balanced budget" by recollecting all dollars--none left issued into the economy. They create money all the time to keep the military funded to ridiculous levels, for example--and nowadays it's often just numbers on electronic ledgers, no need to actually produce physical dollars. Therefore the government can create dollars to do whatever it wants. For example, say it wants to fund a bunch of wind turbines and solar panels. It's as simple as a contract putting the digits on the ledger of the entity with the materials and capabilities to construct said wind and solar infrastructure. There's more to it and, like any theory, it has its proponents and detractors, but that's the crux. The most important part is getting the "how to pay for it" myth out of our heads, as it leaves folks groveling at the feet of billionaires to pay taxes--giving them undue power and leverage--rather than realizing we don't actually need their taxation to "pay for" anything. Many progressives sadly miss this and feed into conservative deficit hawk (in actuality, social services hawks who hate the poor) narratives.

[@platypuspracticus2]

Cool to see Stephanie Kelton on the Daily Show. She's been talking about MMT for a while and a lot of it makes sense. It's something a lot of billionaires and big businesses already put into practice with taking all the government money for themselves while also blowing up inflation to be able to slice more margins out of the pie.

[@Matt-YT]

Deficits work until the market loose confidence, and then we have the ending of Thelma and Louise. There are many examples: Germany in the 20s and 30s, Greece, Argentina...

[@theBear89451]

@@Matt-YT If works means increasing wealth inequality by raising asset prices faster than labor because of wage stickiness, then yes.

[@olddadsadbrad]

@@Matt-YT your examples are different because their debts were in currencies they didn't control

[@Matt-YT]

@theBear89451 Inflation!!!

[@ExposingTruth2screwoligarchy]

​@@Matt-YT LOL, you do not know what you are talking about, you are repeating propaganda of the greedy sociopaths who EMBEZZLE our fiat government money! As one example - Greece was simply the first to fall prey to the privatizers, the US greedy liars who designed the lopsided EU deal so more countries could be taken over to embezzle government money. The lunatic money addicts who drafted the EU deal knew that any country that gave up its currency and was not a "net exporter" would be their victims. Greece was the first.

[@matthew3136]

Medicare for ALL should be the next Inflation Reduction Act.

[@robertk617]

EXACTLY what I was thinking !

[@donbianconi8446]

The math has been done. Healthcare for all would save billions each year over our current system. Trillions over a decade. There is no excuse

[@Munkybhai]

​@@donbianconi8446math done by conservative think tanks, no less, so they were trying to prove it would be a failure

[@ggall001]

Absolutely! ❤

[@donbianconi8446]

@@Munkybhai a properly functioning government would have begun implementing legislation to enact universal healthcare as soon as that was concluded

[@premnas651]

So happy to see Stephanie Kelton in the spotlight again! Modern Monetary Theory is far less a theory than it is a description of how our system works. But until this foundational knowledge becomes mainstream we'll never be able to have an honest conversation about federal taxes, and how the federal government actually pays for things.

[@Joe-no7gs]

Too bad mmt has broken the world. New keynesian economic theory doesn't work out very well I'd say.

[@Yvaelle]

@@Joe-no7gs Based on what?

[@satoriasimov9169]

@@Yvaellebased on the fact that unproductive dollars were chasing too few goods. It’s big reason why our purchasing power has decreased.

[@beezusHrist]

​@satoriasimov9169 and that has nothing to do with mmt but with capitalism run amok. Those unproductive dollars were spent by the rich which increased asset inflation which increases overall inflation

[@jacksonwinter5110]

​@Joe-no7gs are you under the impression that New Keyenesian economics have any relationship to MMT? Go ask any New Keynesian what they think of MMT and see how hard they laugh at you. MMT is specifically refuting the claims of New Keynesianism.

[@MacHeath699]

Kudos to The Daily Show for hiring people who are both brilliant comedians and highly intelligent and skillful interviewers.

[@davidwong5197]

Sorry this woman is cuckoo. Look at Argentina. They have to go to China to beg for money. No inflation in Japan? There is a protest in Japan on inflation. Do you know why US has had low inflation? Chaep Chinese product. Now we have a trade war. What happened to inflation? She is saying we can get something for nothing. Really?

[@Capwi]

Would love more interviews with Ronnie and Jordan, that worked really well!

[@gbdomingo]

Ronnie being frustrated is kinda funny

[@dunce_cap]

Ronnie's secret: He's always funny because he's always frustrated.

[@SeattleScotty]

After his casino analogy: "Yea, Ronny's not getting it..."

[@xcelpast]

he's frustrated because he's a lawyer and has logic, and kelton spits anything but logic

[@SteveJonesOwnsDSP]

Not really -- I found him to be quite insufferable and embarrassing how clueless he was. I get someone trying to wrap their head around, but the way that he is stumbling and bumbling is embarrassing.

[@aaronseet2738]

@@SteveJonesOwnsDSP It's a comedy show; do you not realise he's playing the part of the ignorant idiot who can only think in simple terms. It's a reflection of, unfortunately, many real people out there.

[@maxamerimaka]

If you're feeling like Ronnie in this conversation I would highly recommend Stephanie's book on MMT. I'm no economist but after her book I could understand how money works in the US.

[@jamesbelcher9588]

Ronny: It was my understanding that there would be no math.

[@carn9507]

"How do I not be sad?" The best question ever. :P

[@sergionoh3842]

Kat Williams gives you the answer in his latest Netflix special

[@annawolfe2706]

thanks guys this was one of the best things I've seen and almost made that idiotic Math teacher I had in the sixth grade worth living through. I told her she had the wrong Math textbook and she sure as heck did. They told me they were going to give me advanced Math but there was no such thing for girls in 1969 in Kansas. However, this lady finally articulated so many things I have been puzzling over ever since.

[@LanaDell077]

Oh, thank you! Sounds like you had a light bulb moment. Same for me when I heard about this in 2016. I highly recommend reading Stephanie's book - The Deficit Myth. It's a NY Times bestseller, easy to read, and on audible. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

[@grantbeerling4396]

I recommend reading the Deficit Myth to cement it in. Once you see it, you can no longer deny its existence.

[@PearlOfTheQuarter23]

The miseducation of our citizens and youth have caused the lack of critical thought and debate and it will take generations and decades to come out of this new dark age

[@joanturri5500]

Sad but true. The dumbing down has been successful 😢

[@coolioso808]

It got a lot people, but it didn't get all! So many are waking up. The truth does get out. Can't hide behind lies and propaganda forever, I say. Will people gather, learn and act to change the oppressive system we were born into? That's the big question. What about Degrowth as talked about by Jason Hickel or Kate Raworth's Doughnut Economics? What about deeper down the rabbit hole with Peter Joseph and the Zeitgeist films or Michael Tellinger with One Small Town Contributionism?

[@notoriouslybratty]

Was worried at first with two interviewers (especially as the desk is clearly not set up for it), but I ended up enjoying what each two brought to the interview. Jordan supportive and bringing the conversation up for the financial audience and Ronnie making the conversation funny and engaging for everyone.

[@ollywright]

Jordan clearly read her book first, well done Jordan! (Great book by the way)

[@repealthepatriotact]

Jordan clearly spent 3 hours with an economist explaining and re-explaining everything to him.

[@oldrrocr]

at 6:45 Jordan does an amazing summary!

[@RichardRemer]

He has to cover for the guest who is terrible at communication.

[@69Kevrod2012]

He skips over the "we pay taxes" part real fast but...why do we still need to pay taxes in this theory exactly?

[@grumpyoldguy6117]

MMT is the new bushiness card/letterhead, 5 INcome - 15 EXITpense = [-10 ] with a hope for a Return On Investment of 20 to cover Principal and Interest!!!!!! ALSO look at the ones in charge of the Pocketbook, healthcare or a new rifle or DEI or highspeed internet at a lower cost?? I am posting this to get feed back.

[@Xaver-dh8nh]

​@69Kevrod2012 As she said, taxes are the money the government takes out of the pool, which has been created, thus controlling the amount in circulation. The other effect is a redistribution of money i.e. when the rich get a tax break, the poor get stiffed.

[@matthughes1341]

The government to take out of the system through taxes or inflation runs rampant through all government spending.

[@msantos545]

I am Ronnie in this conversation!😅

[@francescalittle]

Thank goodness for Ronnie. Not everyone is going to know what MMT stands for or what a Fiat currency means.

[@LizzyMcD]

💯

[@joanturri5500]

Read the book and you can be Jordan. I believe in you!

[@ExposingTruth2screwoligarchy]

Very simply - Congress issues the money and makes/approves the laws. CORRUPT Congress issues money to where they and their criminal buddies can EMBEZZLE it, mainly via "privatization". War companies, most prisons, our healthcare insurance companies, big pharma and VAX COMPANIES and more are "privatized". Too bad Stephanie Kelton and most other econ professors do not expose that embezzling scam; it is why the US sociopaths have been taking over countries since before WW1 - to embezzle from more and more governments! We have been ruled by sociopathic money ADDICTS who are totally derelict in their duty and unfit to govern. The Declaration of Independence says it is our DUTY to remove government that is abusive, despotic and does not protect our rights.

[@andrewjohnson1874]

Man, I don't know if it was a bit, a miscommunication, a setup, or what, but I feel soo bad for Ronnie in this, when Jordan and Stephanie were talking and Ronnie is sitting there with his eyes closed, I think focusing on being told the next question in his ear piece, I feel his anxiety, having an ear piece in while trying to listen to a couple arguing politely about the framing order I'm taking for them and wanting my opinion because 'you're an artist, you're a professional' I'm a middle aged art kid with adhd working at a chain arts and crafts stores frame shop, I am neither, I try to be both, but being overworked, under staffed, and communication and training issues and you're lucky we don't just walk out some days and Ronnie's nervous not drink is felt deep

[@medusagorgon8432]

I'm so glad Ronnie was there! I appreciate his thought process and honesty.

[@FanOfTheEarth20]

Great segment guys, but I wish Jon would've had this conversation with Stephanie about MMT and the US deficit fear mongering. Please have her on again.

[@lalah9481]

The only thing inflated in America is the pockets of billionaires. At the people’s expense. RECORD. PROFITS. Greed kills.

[@Joe-no7gs]

MMT helps make that happen. Look how the quality of life has declined and the middle class has been hallowed out since 1971.

[@lady_draguliana784]

“When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich.” - Jean Jacques Rousseau

[@Djamonja]

It doesn't matter, weren't you listening? The Government can just print any money it needs to pay for everything because deficits don't matter. Why tax people at all?

[@stvwds61]

It's just basic double entry accounting, credits and debits! Meaning the government debit is alternatively a credit to the economy. With this consideration, there is a $30+ trillion deficit(debit), which means there is $30+ trillion credit in the economy. Where is it? Who has it? Clue: Productivity has increased 4,4x over wages since 1979.

[@stvwds61]

@@Joe-no7gs It's just basic double entry accounting, credits and debits! Meaning the government debit is alternatively a credit to the economy. With this consideration, there is a $30+ trillion deficit(debit), which means there is $30+ trillion credit in the economy. Where is it? Who has it? Clue: Productivity has increased 4,4x over wages since 1979.

[@roxydejaneiro5640]

Simply put, money doesn't disappear just because the government spent it.

[@LanaDell077]

Did you mean the money APPEARS because the Fed Gov't spent it into existence?

[@splendidcolors]

Just like when people say "NASA is sending your tax dollars into space" they paid salaries of NASA folks, contractors, suppliers--mostly in the USA.

[@pearsor19]

it's quite the opposite. Money is created because the govt spent it! Deficit spending, whether by the public or private sector is what creates the things we use as money

[@lrama6999]

@@pearsor19spot on, when the government creates deficit the people receive profit

[@edwinurey4927]

Most people know that excess money printing creates inflation. I don't see what's so novel about this insight.

[@mikea69vette65]

Ms. Kelton sounds like a brilliant economist because she talks like a brilliant communicator. Thank you

[@davidwong5197]

She never took an economy class or accounting class.

[@dannywindham3295]

​​@@davidwong5197Hey, professor Kelton happens to have A P.HD in economics. She was chief economist on the twenty fifteen budget committee in the senate. She teaches economics at stony brook university in new york

[@donaldfischer1958]

She is so serious, and the Daily Show is just the place for her. Thanks, Ronnie.

[@davidwong5197]

But she is sooo dumb.

[@brooke26019]

As a college student of economics, Stephanie Kelton is one of THE reasons I majored in the field, as well as reading her book The Deficit Myth back in my late teens. She actually did her undergraduate work at the university I attend, and one of my economics professors went to school with her. It's so great to see her ascend to the Daily Show! If anyone wants to enjoy more of her wisdom, I would also highly recommend checking out some of her older interviews with a show called The Majority Report, as well as some of her lectures given at Stony Brook University (where she now teaches).

[@LanaDell077]

Thank you so much!

[@jesmith262]

Stingers Up!!!

[@neowuwei7851]

Tell me, what happens to ALL fiat currencies in the end. Since you are a student of economics.

[@brooke26019]

@@neowuwei7851 Do you view our data-driven world through so myopic a lens that you are only willing to abide by the classical school of economics? Since you already know what "ought" to happen to fiat currency under the classical model (or at least, you think you do), certainly you don't need a lowly student like me to add any clarification for you. Maybe go get your own degree in economics and stop leaving comments that look like they were either (1) written by someone who huffs paint fumes for recreation, or (2) prefers to waste their time desperately clinging to what little intelligence they think they have by hate-watching an unpalatable KZbin video instead of picking up a book and reading about an opinion which is contrarian to yours. (Pro tip, it would actually offer you more credibility, something I doubt anyone has ever accused you of having).

[@LanaDell077]

@@neowuwei7851 What happens? There are about 100 countries that use fiat.

[@bryanjones9952]

We always find money for wars...

[@philliphessel6788]

That’s about war being a racket that funnels money into the already well lined pockets of politicians’ patrons. The fundamental of corruption is the power so many citizens grant the advertising big money buys to dictate how they vote. Ere a couple of Supreme Court decisions in the 1970s basically turned bribery that was formerly criminal into an entitlement of billionaires and corporations, campaign spending has kept going up with no limit in sight. The return on lobbying far exceeds any actual productive industry (though owning capital is like a fulcrum on which that lever rests).

[@920evolution]

Thats what the romans also said

[@chinesesparrows]

Preferable over a world led by ethno-centric countries under Xi or Putin. Power abhors a vacuum, and the alternatives are worse

[@DavidIFernandezMunoz]

Wars = Bunch of money that will be spent on expensive products made by the contractors that pay lobbyists that fund campaigns, and that can only be used once.

[@steves3651]

FACTS

[@jaidaperkinson1021]

MMT is one of my greatest takeaways from college and it came from Kelton’s book! SO glad this idea is finally getting the recognition it deserves.

[@ryancammer]

It is getting recognition! It's an absolutely terrible idea.

[@LanaDell077]

@@ryancammer How is that? That we finally understand the truth about Fed finance?

[@timoooo7320]

I heard it's completely BS though

[@LanaDell077]

@@timoooo7320 LOL

[@henrygustav7948]

@@timoooo7320 Where did you hear that from? Someone who is profiting from Bitcoin? A banker perhaps?

[@joe-edward]

more of THIS type of reporting, PLEASE!!

[@juandesalgado]

I'm going to go on a limb and guess that she's not very popular with the GOP.

[@LanaDell077]

😆 An understatement! The other side is that plenty of Democrats are also of the old school thinking & how they frame their arguments. One of them, retired from Louisville KY - John Yarmuth, was loud and proud talking about her book and MMT. I encourage all to read her book.

[@BobbyJ529]

GOP is fine with our military spending. it's still about who is controlling the purse strings and to what end. It can be for right and left causes.

[@WhatIThink45]

She's also not very popular with the neoliberal Democratic party. She was Bernie Sanders' economic advisor during his first presidential run, but unfortunately Sanders was too scared to use and explain MMT to support his political/economic platform. It's not like he didn't have a lot to lose because the Democratic party wasn't going to let him be nominee. He should of pushed it to help shift the conversation.

[@tomnguyen9931]

Is that because she don't worship the Orange Jesus?

[@0zoneTherapyW0rks]

We need to end the "We're broke!" mantra.

[@mikebostic9518]

Having an accurate understanding of the monetary system is paramount. As I've said before it isn't easy to unlearn what mainstream macro taught you. Money isn't scarce, resources are. Big difference. Fed gov currency issuer vs state/local gov currency users. Reading the deficit myth is a must. We can have an economy that works for the little guy not just corporations. By the way MMT accounts for inflation and Kelton talks about it in her book. Again, we need to have a better understanding of the monetary system.

[@eakherenow]

Excellent.More,more,more of Kelton.

[@marialee3075]

What a great guest and segment to educate us. Great job Ronny and Jordan!

[@quintinmohammed2109]

I loved this trio 😂

[@davidwong5197]

Because she said you can get something for nothing?

[@LanaDell077]

@@davidwong5197 Because some light is finally being shown on how Fed finance actually works.

[@joshuaschuettenhelm2596]

I never thought of Jordan Klepper as a teacher’s pet before. This was fun to watch!

[@Meggs23]

"How do I not be sad?" Thank you Ronny. Exactly... That's why I can only watch the 'news' with comedians hosting.

[@roylec]

Can we get Ronnie in on ANY interview involving politics or economics. He speaks for the people.

[@MichelleVisageOnlyFans]

Speak for yourself. For me he was a cringe distraction and a humorless idiot the interview could definitely do without...

[@tragicrhythm]

Yeah thank goodness for Ronny, or we still wouldn’t know what MMT actually stands for.

[@grantbeerling4396]

Great to read so many positive and understanding comments (I've been using MMT as one of many strands in my research into Rent Control for the past 7 years)

[@TerreHauteRemoteGoat]

Stephanie Kelton is a national treasure. When I read her book several years ago, I was a bit embarrassed to realize that I already knew all the pieces of MMT, but I'd never added them up and instead had just blindly believed the narrative that government deficits are bad.

[@coolioso808]

I really enjoy the work from Richard Wolff (Democracy at Work), Kate Raworth (Doughnut Economics) and Jason Hickel (Less is More) after understanding MMT, it opens up those doors so much more for more sustainable, just society we can create.

[@LanaDell077]

Nothing to be embarrassed about! We have been lied to for years about all of this. So glad you saw the light!

[@kutto5017]

Massive government deficits are bad. You still pay interest on that deficit. The US deficit is huge. It can grow some more but not indefinitely

[@coolioso808]

@@kutto5017 Watch "The Deficit Myth: The Biggest Lie in Politics" by 1Dime and that'll clear a lot of these fake problems up that people are so worried about. "Oh, we gotta pay off that interest, the working class of course, not the super rich who skirt taxes and own banks themselves or sit on the board of the monetary funds." Yep, just scare the people with "you gotta pay! That's why you can't have nice things." while the super rich live a life of luxury. Seems to work. But not everybody is fooled, not 1Dime, not Peter Joseph from TZM or Michael Tellinger of Ubuntu Contributionism: Exposing the Global Banking Fraud.

[@LanaDell077]

@@kutto5017 What? Do you understand the difference between Fed debt & deficit? Do you understand that all of the dollars in your wallet and bank account are both Fed debt AND part of the Fed deficit? Treasury Bond sales are a policy choice. I suggest you watch the short video on the youtube channel Deficit Owls with Dr Randall Wray called "You can't have a debt problem if you issue the currency".

[@worschtebrot]

Finally, this topic is being tackled somewhere. Thanks for this interview!

[@sre2007]

This is such an important topic, we need a national fireside chat on this topic. The government is NOT like your household or business budget. There is still a limit to deficit spending going from a healthy investment to a burden or a waste. There are difficulties with servicing interest and the raising of funds through bond sales. The point is that money MOVES in an economy - it is not simply "spent" like from your bank card.

[@MsSrags]

You don't have to do bond sales. But sectoral balance is something to watch.

[@repealthepatriotact]

A fireside chat?? Lol. No, this needs to be taught in all high schools and colleges. And explained on air by TV hosts when they are addressing economic problems. If it is part of the fabric of society it is something congressmen will be held to account for.

[@trenomas1]

Yeah but deficits tend to accrue, and then you're in the treadmill Japan is in just servicing debts.

[@repealthepatriotact]

@@trenomas1 To be totally fair, Japan's real problem isn't actually their deficit, it's the reason for it--their huge very old people population and not enough young workers to grow the economy so the taxes add to the retirement and medical social services fund and pay down the deficit. Keep in mind that the Japanese Yen is still one of only 6 currencies that have world reserve currency status, and should strengthen as the dollar slips, lessening their deficit. Of course, the Japanese women need to start pumping out babies like mad over the next 20 years or their growth will remain flat.

[@LanaDell077]

Why is there a difficulty servicing the interest on the debt?

[@elainekavros7965]

This was outstanding!!!!!!

[@helios7212]

Great discussion on extremely important but little understood issues 👏👏 Thank you 🙏

[@annajordan243]

Something tells me 10 years from now this woman will be SUPER FAMOUS and you won't remember you saw her for the first time on Daily Show

[@Baby0din]

It's not a bad guess. The daily show has launched hundreds of famous people. A lot of them used to be correspondents.

[@jodylynn840]

How about the first female president?

[@annajordan243]

@@jodylynn840 i'm not against that

[@LanaDell077]

Proud to say I know her in person!

[@betheklein4463]

Oh man. Thank you for this guest! I can believe she is talking about money and I don’t feel shamed or insulted! Sorry money has been a lifelong trigger I was raised by Catholic CPA’s.

[@lourdesraupe3824]

Fascinating show tonight! I’m like Ronny still trying to wrap my head around MMT. And I WANT to! I’ve never worried about government deficits because it’s a man-made issue, that can be solved by us. By understanding MMT perhaps?

[@JamesRosier]

While MMT doesn't solve the world's problems, but it puts many of them into perspective. The world has real world problems and real resource constraints. We largely ignore these, when we obsess about the 'budget'. I highly encourage you to see Finding the Money and read the Deficit Myth. 👍

[@lourdesraupe3824]

@@JamesRosier I plan to.

[@kevdaag2523]

She encourages us not to worry about deficits, because the money all goes back into the economy. ...Well, we've been spending like Mad since Ronald Reagan in 1980. We are tens of trillions of dollars in debt, but she says that money is all in the economy. So where is it. Was it spent wisely? Because while we spend and didn't worry about the deficit or debt, the% of annual govt budget spent as interest payments on the national debt is growing and surpassing all other budget items. Should we not be worried? I worry that her line is argument doesn't make any recommendations on whether or how to spend wisely, just ... Don't worry

[@theresiahuber6275]

We should care about natural resources, which can not increased by sheer willpower. Money is not one of those.

[@JamesRosier]

@@theresiahuber6275 That is true. Shifting the focus to the real world, finitely-resourced planet is a primary goal here.

[@stax6092]

Finally someone publicly explaining how modern economics after the gold-standard works. How has it taken so long?

[@hoorayforyoutoob]

Did she really explain anything though? I think all she really said is that deficits aren't inherently bad as long as you get something worthwhile in return and as long as you don't let inflation get out of control

[@Robert_McGarry_Poems]

@hoorayforyoutoob Yeah, MMT is the national version of a credit card. Nobody is pretending that those upfront costs are going away or disappearing. But again, the government also issues bonds to cover all this stuff. And people buy them. As long as the sentiment and trust in return on investment exists, the system will work just fine.

[@JamesRosier]

​@@Robert_McGarry_Poems Bonds do not fund spending, however they are used to drain reserves and thus regulate interest rates. MMT investigates the accounting and operations of governments and central banks. Mainstream economics doesn't do this. It makes (false) assumptions and builds models upon them.

[@Leftistattheparty]

​@Robert_McGarry_Poems anytime anyone compares government budgets with household budgets I cringe so hard. They are vast different than each other. People can't just generate their own currency. People having debt to other countries isn't a positive like some debt is for countries. Having countries in debt to others increases and stabilizes the value of that currency that is used in the debt interaction.

[@KiloMintoni-kg4kn]

My first job in 1980, after school washing dishes. I made minimum wage -$3.35/hr. If you look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and use the governments calculator, that wage is the equivalent of $13.06/hr. In 2023. And people are making ten an hour in 2024. Inflation is a tax on the poor. If you can not see that....

[@sherreeacree7306]

So glad to see Ms Kelton back at it!!

[@repealthepatriotact]

Stating long-known government economics that we should all(well, the born after 1965 kids) remember from high school economics and history class?

[@closethockeyfan5284]

​@@repealthepatriotactNope, didn't get a lick of that, even at a prestigious prep school

[@repealthepatriotact]

@@closethockeyfan5284 I went to a public school and we talked about GDP, GNP, currency valuation, how deficits work, and why Nixon took us off the gold standard. Not super deep details and case studies, but if your economics class didn't at least cover the surface details, you wuz robbed!

[@bananascoaster1243]

Nice to hear what i learned over 15 years ago in econ 101. Macroeconomics is different than personal. Why? The USG can print money, you can't. Domestic deficit is like moving money from your left pocket to your right. I like her explanation of inflation- 'too much money and not enough stuff' I wish there was more room to talk about foreign borrowing in this interview.

[@deberebor]

Best, most informative interview I have seen in a long time.

[@pjforde1978]

Thank you for booking such an incredibly intelligent guest. If she's really that smart, she'll never read this... but in case you're sneaking a peek on the can, Stephanie, you are awesome. It's incredibly difficult to reconfigure people's perspective in a short segment, but the reality is that even smart people are currently operating under a completely false conceptual understanding of how economies work. It's amazing to me as a Canadian that Americans appear to see something like universal healthcare or climate as a cost, and not a massive economic opportunity.

[@marcfournier823]

Outstanding programing we would never see anywhere else.

[@dragonfly4water]

It's hard to cut drama from your way of thinking, but once you do you realize 99% of things in life are not worth the anxiety or stress. Real emergencies are when someone is dying, not all the stories politicians and media spin. Thanks for this segment!

[@sierraergundogdu1783]

What an awesome guest!

[@devinmcmanus]

I remember as a young child asking, "where does money come from?" Thank you Stephanie Kelton for finally getting to the bottom of it!

[@Mishk]

Brilliant interview of Stephanie Kelton

[@dannywindham3295]

She is definitely brilliant and honest

[@sleepercell938]

You guys quite frankly are the funniest duo on TV, absolutely brilliant! The back and forth is priceless. The whole Stewart reboot has been awesome, and the entire cast is crushing it!

[@rudyspective1870]

Ok Jordan smartly summed everything they discussed here 6:45 . You're welcome, lol! Interesting interview!

[@Zooga_Boy]

She did such a great job.

[@acidtrip141596]

I've seen Stephanie Kelton in several interviews on different news channels, and she has always been incredibly persuasive, clear, and explains things well. She did not do that this interview, and seemed to rely more on turns of phrase, like "power of the purse", for example, rather than be able to explain to Ronny things the average person might not understand, like the gold standard or fiat money, which he was clearly struggling with in order to understand the basic mechanics of MMT. Glad Jordan Klepper was there because his summary was brilliant!

[@Finkeldinken]

Hey, so I had some trouble following her all the way - can you point me towards an interview with her where her message comes through a bit more clearly? TIA, if you see this.

[@repealthepatriotact]

@@Finkeldinken Dude, just do what the rest of us informed people do-actually read the books about economic policy and how world history shaped what we have now. Go online and search for books on economic policy, and read the recap of each one and buy what you need. Trust me, that's the only way you're going to really grasp what the f*** is going on.

[@henrygustav7948]

7 minutes...

[@davidwong5197]

@@Finkeldinken She has only one theory. You need to look at he whole thing. For this I encourage you to follow Argentina. They are on the cusp of bankrupcy because of defecit.

[@jameshallett5395]

She needs to become our National Economics Teacher.

[@billlane4013]

She should replace Jared Bernstein who can't explain the bond market. He's the CEA under Biden. (Chief Economics Adviser).

[@BooksForever]

I’ve studied international monetary history and banking for thirty years. She’s not wrong.

[@alexeilindes7507]

I'm a doctor of money 💰 I agree

[@Robert_McGarry_Poems]

Plus, they just sell enough bonds to cover... and everyone moves on for another 2 years.

[@Growthunlimited]

You're right because USD is the world currency. The whole world is bearing the 'inflation' due to money printing. As US population is relatively small, the dilution is insignicant.

[@siamcharm7904]

@@Robert_McGarry_Poems problem is we're not selling those bonds and they end up on fed bal sheet. we are only able to sell some currently because of short maturities, high rates and the carry trade.

[@tomnguyen9931]

I'm with you, As long as they can keep inflation in check. Germany in WW2 did really well and there were a lot of money but nothing to buy, Inflation was nothing.

[@alisar]

I'd really like a discussion of inflation with this. I don't understand how MMT understands inflation.

[@spladam3845]

I want these two all the time now. I'm going try to let the MMT wash over me now.

[@dannywindham3295]

MMTIs really not hard to understand. Just stay with it.The light bulbs will come on.I guarantee it

[@spladam3845]

@@dannywindham3295 I was just quoting Ronny's joke.

[@dannywindham3295]

@@spladam3845 Sorry my mistake

[@jenniferparsons9462]

Love watching these guys together! Klepper was so prepared and intelligently engaged with Kelton while Ronnie reflected viewers like me who were struggling to cling on to the concepts. Brilliant segment! Learned a lot, laughed a lot. Can’t ask for more.

[@user-ev1di4ml9u]

A great philosopher and author, LRH, once wrote that "Money is an Idea backed by confidence". For example: anywhere in the world a person knows that a piece of paper that says US tender will allow them to buy flour. A government CAN run a deficit cuz it's believed that THEY WILL PAY

[@ottiliabiondi3980]

Ronny is my favorite interviewer, he cracks me up and I feel like his questions are actually always really clarifying, he makes complicated ideas really approachable, and I’m realizing watching him double back to break something down really holds my attention, like actively, like how teaching someone something helps you integrate it. Love that guy

[@LokeyeMC]

Cheers to Ronnie for being able to play into that role. That was some of the funniest education I've enjoyed in a while.

[@laskey2175]

Two hosts is very refreshing. 👍

[@TheBoogerJames]

Been following Kelton since early 2000s and her time at UMKC and New Economic Perspectives. It's about time she gets some mainstream air time.

[@dannywindham3295]

Absolutely

[@LukeNukem82]

Ron Paul is stroking out listening to this.

[@dannywindham3295]

And probably having a heart attack or two

[@FlannelHobbit]

"How do I not be sad? Do I just have to pray to MMT?" 😂 Ronnie is the absolute best.

[@GatorGlider]

MMT sounds like something I'd be looking for before heading out to the club.

[@janinemeier7201]

I adore you guys. Great interview and really funny too. I am a big fan.

[@peterredman235]

The next time my bank manager calls me in ,I will take Stephanie Kelton with me!!

[@JamesRosier]

Stephanie Kelton is talking about Government Finance, not personal finance. You're making the same mistake that Ronnie does. You're on your own mate 🤣

[@DrSanity7777777]

“But this is where it is important to remember that the government differs critically from businesses and individuals. As the sole manufacturer of dollars, whose debt is denominated in dollars, the U.S. government can never become insolvent, i.e., unable to pay its bills. In this sense, the government is not dependent on credit markets to remain operational. Moreover, there will always be a market for U.S. government debt at home because the U.S. government has the only means of creating risk-free dollar-denominated assets (by virtue of never facing insolvency and paying interest rates over the inflation rate, e.g., TIPS-Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities). Together with the unusually high, but manageable, level of the current debt, these facts imply that the current U.S. government can wait out any short-term economic developments until long-run growth is restored. Further, without an immediate need to drastically reduce the debt, the mechanism between high debt and slow growth loses most of its credibility.” - Federal Reserve

[@DrSanity7777777]

“But this is where it is important to remember that the government differs critically from businesses and individuals. As the sole manufacturer of dollars, whose debt is denominated in dollars, the U.S. government can never become insolvent, i.e., unable to pay its bills. In this sense, the government is not dependent on credit markets to remain operational. Moreover, there will always be a market for U.S. government debt at home because the U.S. government has the only means of creating risk-free dollar-denominated assets (by virtue of never facing insolvency and paying interest rates over the inflation rate, e.g., TIPS-Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities). Together with the unusually high, but manageable, level of the current debt, these facts imply that the current U.S. government can wait out any short-term economic developments until long-run growth is restored. Further, without an immediate need to drastically reduce the debt, the mechanism between high debt and slow growth loses most of its credibility.” - Federal Reserve

[@jasonperkins345]

Ronny Chieng thank you for being in this segment. I felt your pain.

[@MeltonECartes]

Jordan's summary is excellent.

[@tmswfrk]

Another question that I like to ask when it comes to MMT - if the country can print as much money as it wants, why do I have to pay taxes at all? Can’t they just print the money themselves without collecting any from me? The theory, as I understand it, is that me paying taxes creates a demand for those dollars. It kind of means that those dollars aren’t really my property nor are my wages something I’m entitled to as property either. It’s kind of how the country has been operating for a long time, but I do personally feel like it flies in the face of our originating principles of our rights to life, liberty, and property (what Adam Smith initially said). As I said in another comment, it’s playing with fire, and we’re in uncharted territory in terms of economic theory and models.

[@dannywindham3295]

Taxes are absolutely necessary to control inflation amongst other purposes. I know that you are a greedy little s*** But the problem is we have infinite money, but we do not have infinite resources.

[@aakaankshpothukutchi8526]

I like it when the interviews run and they the interviewee speak for however long it takes. I was at a live filming a few weeks ago, the guest was a congress person. it wasn't as interesting as this interview.

[@DelenaLearns]

Thank you Ronnie for helping us actually get it.

[@duncanbleak3819]

Ronnie was asking the right questions. One wonders why she never gives examples of where this has worked in an actual, real-world economy! She has been peddling this theory for years, and defines "MMT" slightly differently every time she's interviewed.

[@Nick991.2]

She theorizes about this - this is magic unicorn thinking. With her theory a gallon of milk would cost $100,000 probably - our currency would be worthless

[@duncanbleak3819]

@@Nick991.2 Precisely!

[@dannywindham3295]

It's actually been working for the past 50 years in the United States

[@ThreeRunHomer]

@@dannywindham3295 but we’ve had two extended periods of inflation in the last 50 years, along with several financial crises.

[@topspotstables]

Ronny…. You are the best 😂😂😂

[@doubleeagleaudio]

A LOT of people are going to need to unlearn a LOT of BS, even though their economic project is failing all around them. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@krjohnson29]

We have a huge deficit today, and have for years. Whose economic project is failing?

[@doubleeagleaudio]

@@krjohnson29 trickle-down, supply-siders, “too big to failers”. Neoliberals. Basically the economics of the last 40-50 years. Objectively a HUGE failure.

[@JamesRosier]

​@@krjohnson29 A deficit is always somebody's surplus. This is basic accounting and math. The 'failure' is in managing the resources, which are the real inputs to an economy. Getting upset about deficits misses the point.

[@Joe-no7gs]

@james you new keynesians have broken the world. Congrats.

[@doubleeagleaudio]

@@Joe-no7gs lol Where was it suggested that we make up reasons to print money to hand to corps and weapons manufacturers in his texts again?

[@el3aleyle]

Excellent format!! Love Ronnie's POV

[@martin2289]

She's not wrong, but this is putting the cart ahead of the horse until the problem of egregiously skewed means of wealth distribution is first rectified.

[@LanaDell077]

She has plenty to say about that - just not in this short time period.

[@supermoonie]

Tax the rich + UBI

[@Yvaelle]

Her book is 100% about that, and the many other reforms she recommends we need - MMT is inclusive of those reforms - they all need to happen together.

[@MatthewVillalobos]

Those deficits definitely put money in someone's pocket...

[@markmckenna5211]

The question about paradigm shifts is interesting, but the response misses the point. When the paradigm shifts -- that is, when new perspectives offer better answers to important questions, we all shift with it. At one point the paradigm was that the sun circled around the earth. Then the paradigm shifted and it was pointed out that we would get better predictions if we thought of the earth circling around the sun, and it took a while but eventually everyone pretty much agreed that that was just common sense. Then we thought that time and space were separate, and then it was proposed that they were interconnected and as the result of the theory of relativity we developed GPS. Some people still insist the earth is flat, but most people have simple shifted to the new paradigm because, well, it works. The very fact that MMT is being discussed on a comedy show suggests the paradigm has already shifted. Sure, there will always be those demanding a return to the gold standards, and those who rail against income taxes, and those deficit hawks who insist that budgetary disaster is just around the corner, but it won't matter for most people who will eventually come to view MMT (even if they don't, like Ronnie Chieng know what it means) as just common sense.

[@Robert_McGarry_Poems]

Now that's just common sense. 😊

[@mikahundin]

Earth revolving around the sun is empirical science and falsifiable. MMT is economic theory and an abstraction, not falsifiable and hence not science.

[@repealthepatriotact]

There is no paradigm shift. This has been the reality of government finance for thousands of years, starting with empires playing more simple hidden money games, then changing into a more amplified and measurable effect after the world reserve currency shifted after WW2 US dollar, followed by Nixon taking us to a fiat currency followed by the rise of the petrodollar. That woman is making a fairly simple and long understood global financial practice very confusing by throwing around silly words like "paradigm shift", "MMT", and "inflation" instead of just putting up a pre-drawn whiteboard and walking the audience through where money comes from and how it is used in the economy. She definitely shouldn't be teaching a high school or college course, she likes to wander all over instead of making clear concise points.

[@joannacarter9988]

@@repealthepatriotact, MMT hasn't been in use for 'thousands of years'. The US economy and spending used to be pegged to the gold standard which meant the federal govt was constrained in its spending to the total value of gold held. That changed in the 1970's, but politicians in particular don't like to grasp the updated concept because it means they can't frighten and manipulate the voters with 'debt and deficit disasters'.

[@lachlanmccall1012]

@@repealthepatriotact”that woman” that’s Dr. Kelton, PhD New School MPhil Cambridge, thank you very much. And since when are “paradigm shift” and “inflation” complicated words? Of course she didn’t whip out a whiteboard on a comedy show, it’s a COMEDY SHOW, not a university macro lecture.

[@umoorjani]

What breath of fresh air! 😂😂

[@scottmochinski5447]

Stephanie Kelton is my new hero for taking a world stage and saying what a nobody like me had been saying for decades.

[@repealthepatriotact]

She's not that great. She's a horrible explainer who likes to use word salads. And she skipped over so many crucial basics.

[@lachlanmccall1012]

@@repealthepatriotactyou wanted her to whip out a whiteboard, present equations to a comedy show audience, but also then explain what the word “paradigm” means. -_-

[@carn9507]

@@repealthepatriotact eh, she explained it well to me.

[@theresiahuber6275]

Feel ya bro.😉

[@repealthepatriotact]

@@lachlanmccall1012 Absolutely!. First of all she should have told them I'm not doing 7 minutes, I've got to spend at least 20 minutes on this so your audience in the studio and at home can grasp the underlying financial concepts. Then present a premade whiteboard and quickly walk through each step to explain how things got to where they are now, then pull out another whiteboard and walk through how everything is interconnected now. If you think her doing a massive information dump using economic and financial lingo, you definitely shouldn't be teaching people.

[@lalah9481]

Greed kills.

[@lostcat9lives322]

Or buys you a yacht.

[@randykintzley5923]

When the rich steal, we call it "greed", but it's the same thing with the same cause: Insufficient law enforcement. FTC, SEC FDA .... all corrupt or inept. If someone robs me on the street, they go to jail. Corporate America robs us of our pensions, pay checks and health benefits, and we're satisfied with just calling them "greedy", I'm sure it fills them with shame though, so keep using that word. That'll fix it.

[@repealthepatriotact]

Poverty kills more.

[@AndrewJohnson-oy8oj]

Here's a "big thing" for the government to spend on: homelessness and the housing crisis.

[@robertk617]

Medicare for all.... people die in this country because of no health care.

[@repealthepatriotact]

Homelessness is easy-reopen all the state mental hospitals and living facilities. Housing simple too-20% minimum cash down payment, no more leveraging another property's equity for a down payment. Done.

[@AndrewJohnson-oy8oj]

@@repealthepatriotact Yes, that is the tragedy of the problem is that it is so very solvable.

[@repealthepatriotact]

@@AndrewJohnson-oy8oj Not in a system where the mentally disabled and the financially disadvantaged have no one representing them in government voting, and corporations buying votes with unlimited donations. This is not a democracy or republic anymore, it is the very definition of a plutarchy.

[@dannywindham3295]

​@@AndrewJohnson-oy8ojYou are absolutely correct. That is the tragedy because it is easily solved easily..

[@fstim82]

They need to do more segments with the two of them. That was great.

[@ZENmud]

My 1992 Microeconomics prof came back from a seminar, totally despondent. "Why?" He attended someone else's paper presentation ~ that Economist researched the number of researchers across various fields, who "proved their theorem". So the conclusion was that most scientists actually prove what they had theorized! Chemists, nuclear physicists, mathematicians... averaged 97% success. But "Astrology" and "Economics" had success rates at +/- 49% accuracy. Steve was BUMMED.

[@neildutton8077]

I remember FIAT currency....that car almost bankrupted me.😀

[@roc7880]

wow, an Italian joke, nice.

[@michaellewandowski7596]

The core problem is... where has that money gone. And then we realize that inequality is higher than it's ever been and the rich have more than ever. Our deficit has been used to generally make the rich richer.

[@jasonperkins345]

That was Ronny’s Caesar’s bet. Caesars was enriched. Ronny not so much. Only in the government context the government gave the money to the already rich and the poor are paying it back through inflation. The rich were inflated at the same rate of the printing. The poor never received anywhere near the amount of inflated money they contend with daily.

[@pthaloblue100]

Excellent, more segments like this please!

[@drakewarnock1239]

I kind of agree with her on this. Like I agree with the central premise that the deficit doesn't really matter when it comes to funding things, and that spending is ultimately how you make the economy stronger. But I can't help but feel like it's a mistake to just completely ignore the deficit entirely. Like...getting the deficit down isn't a bad thing, is my point.

[@MatthewVillalobos]

It's not a bad thing. Fear mongering average people about the deficit to curry votes while misrepresenting the concept intentionally is bad. It has been the Republican playbook every single time a Democrat is in office, and suddenly disappears for Republicans when they're in office despite also logging massive deficits.

[@dojinho]

Interesting subject for a great-and hilarious, thanks to Ronny-interview. Mrs. Kelton is so outspoken and, as Ronny mentioned, calm in her explanation of an otherwise difficult subject. 15 minutes well spent !