MOIDER: Juliet and Pauline: Part 3

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[@vivekdamodar111]

pauline's mother is the most unfortunate character in the whole situation. she had hubby 14 yr older to her, she never had the legal wife status, she lost a child, had a child with disability, had to work hard to keep food on the table and got brick in the head by her own daughter. so sad.

[@laurenh9401]

vivekdamodar111 - my thoughts too!!

[@vivekdamodar111]

@Lady Jane Pauline’s father cheated on his wife and duped a poor, uneducated girl who was 14 years younger to him (Pauline’s mother) on the pretence that he would give her a happy married life. He had 2 children from her even though he knew he had no legal married status. Pauline’s mother was trapped in a living arrangement that was neither happy nor fulfilling. Still she worked hard & sent her daughter to school for her to have some sort of future because she knew her disabled child had none. Her so called neglect towards Pauline comes from the fact that she had to look after her husband, her disabled child & guests at her boarding. Pauline’s mother was working hard to rise above her poverty whereas Pauline was looking for an easy way out of her poverty. And I agree with you it is better to be childless than to raise such an ungrateful daughter who never appreciated the hard work her mother did just to make the ends meet & killed her with such a brutality.

[@sirenthomas4595]

@@vivekdamodar111 duped lol Hun at 15 I had old dudes promise me shit I didn't take the bait but I had parents who gave a crap....I shouldnt sound like im victim blaming the people to blame were her parents who clearly were neglectful to let their 15 yr old leave home ....ik at age 15 that it was something wrong with a 35 yr old man coming on to a teen....but again I had a present parent those types rare;y pic stable family girls.. again wtf were her parents to stop this bs ....she took her shitty life choices and lack of parental guidance out on Pauline 🤷🏿‍♀️...she didnt deserve death but estrangement...

[@huh-se1lo]

@@vivekdamodar111 she ran off with a married man who had children. She knowingly set up a life with a man who ABANDONED his children & then spread her legs & pushed out 4 more... she knew what she was doing. boo hoo. "OH poor her! has to work several jobs" that's what you get. She got what she deserved. Why wouldn't her daughter hate her? And then she had the audacity to get upset that Pauline was dating an older man!!!

[@suzanking5625]

@@sirenthomas4595 IF Pauline's mother had really loved her I think that she'd have allowed her daughter to accompany Juliet to South Africa to attend an elite school, meet British and Australian ex pats, and make a more secure future for herself.

[@shannonmoss5739]

Hi Stephanie, I notice that you often apologize if a video is ‘late’, but I hope you never feel stressed about having a video out by a certain time. I don’t understand how anyone can feel entitled to content that is being provided for free. Thank you so much for all the hard work that you put in.

[@teresahowick5197]

Shannon Moss amen! Thank you!

[@clairey6407]

Shannon Moss, I absolutely agree.

[@JeanGenie92]

This!!!

[@boogiebear3095]

I agree

[@kaluca]

agreed

[@JosieGonzalez]

Stephanie, if someone asks you what you do for a living please dont say you are simply a “youtuber” or that you “post videos”, because honestly, you don’t make videos, you MAKE DOCUMENTARIES. The effort and work you put into every video is outstanding and jaw dropping. You also post so frequently and still manage to be a kick ass mom? You’re the best.

[@francaperotti5934]

She is also a mother the most important and difficlut job on the planet

[@MorbidKat]

I think of her as a crime reporter honestly. She does better research and delivers it in a story form that's better than anyone or anything I've read/watched!

[@tatyanamelnikoff9578]

investigative historian? criminal psychologist/analyst? investigative journalist? successful, for sure.

[@daisypickles5808]

I agree so very much😁😘

[@francaperotti5934]

@@kadeelacayo4806 yes im a mother and a very good one thank you very much

[@delorasledge2492]

I honestly can't believe I intently watched all 3 episodes in one day...Im so glad I found you.

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Me too!!!

[@spamachuchan8824]

It took me between yesterday and today. Man am I fascinated, from a psychological perspective.

[@ashleighhoggan5337]

Just found this channel almost at the end yeah Stephanie is great at crime stories xx

[@kbaylor123]

Same! What an amazing storytelling talent in addition to all the journalistic work!

[@terridemaio2926]

Oh I know I Love this channel

[@meelahmak]

with the emphasis on pauline’s hatred of her own mother was the perfect scapegoat for juliet’s hatred towards her own mother. juliet could never kill her own mother but could take out that pain through pauline.

[@maeahem]

MOIDER is very hard work and you need refreshments afterwards ☠️🍽☕️

[@chantellecrooks2453]

Love these little one liners stephanie adds in

[@moonfirepz]

maea05 jahj

[@PorcupineGirl]

Perfect deadpan delivery.

[@rickyku3903]

🤣😂💀

[@suebieri3392]

They sure do make an "odd couple", don't they?

[@Flo3241]

The fact that Juliet became a successful author after everything...I was not expecting that. And bloody hell, only 5 years?! Just horrendous.

[@gabbye4986]

Flo unfortunately the times allowed it although now anything could happen, I mean look at OJ and Casey Anthony. Both obviously were guilty. There are innocent people in prison and the guilty get to walk free.

[@dadgbe4834]

they were only 15

[@shammydammy2610]

@@dadgbe4834 To quote Stephanie "It was so long ago, I was only fifteen, I murdered somebody....no biggie."

[@aderyn7600]

@@shammydammy2610 I think more like. They were a child that desperately needed help. Killed someone. Was arrested and served time and was rehabilitated. And I'm sorry that not everyone believes that jail should be a forever punishment and instead rehabilitation for people that desperately need help like this CHILD

[@shammydammy2610]

@@aderyn7600 I believe that premeditated murder should be a life sentence. Honora got a forever punishment.

[@SpoonyLupin]

"Moider is very hard work and you need refreshments afterwards." Also: "What up, Pauline?" I love these little commentaries you put in 😂

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Well I don’t want her to feel ignored 😂

[@feliciagaffney1998]

I laugh everytime Stephanie says "Moider". 😂😂

[@Druzica18]

The weirdest part for me was that I didn't know anything about the murder before I started reading Anne Perry books about ten years ago. I was a huge fan and even met her at a book signing once. She just seemed like this delightful older woman, and I would never have guessed. I still have the book she signed for me. Here's what knocks my socks off--in one of her books, of the William Monk series, the word 'Moidore' pops up, as the surname of a prominent family in which a murder has occurred.

[@kbaylor123]

I knew about the story and about Anne Perry’s books separately and it completely blew my mind when I found out she was Juliet Hulme!

[@AnnabelleCharrier]

Oh wow, the "moidore" thing is unbelievable! That was no slip of the pen, I'm sure. My parents had an old interview with Perry on VHS where she said that she never uses "a brick in a stocking" as a murder weapon in any of her novels. She said it with such a smug smirk on her face. I have a dark sense of humour myself but it was creepy and so inappropriate. I wish I could find this interview now - it was very high profile, with someone like Dianne Sawyer's or Barbara Walters. It ended with the reporter saying, "I haven't read a book by Anne Perry before but I sure want to now". 😗

[@Druzica18]

@@AnnabelleCharrier wow what the FUCK

[@user-kz3pv8jm5v]

I remember that book too!!! Just crazy right??

[@megkat8958]

Paused. They were mentally disturbed...but they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. As a mother, I could almost envision myself through Nora's eyes, watching Pauline walk away. I dont think most of us even can imagine that level of heartbreak. Rest peacefully Nora.

[@KitKat_293]

I keep thinking about Juliet’s neglect as a baby and toddler and how textbook that is for people who develop decreased empathy and remorse as teens and adults. I truly think her ability to love was damaged to endure the abandonment. People who develop that way will often feel laws of right and wrong are just stupid rules that don’t matter. They don’t relate to the significance of protecting the innocent from crime or feel sick inside when someone suffers. If you can’t feel bad when you hurt someone, the one thing stopping you is the law. I think they deluded themselves into thinking they could escape the law, and I think Juliet influenced Pauline into detaching from her emotions. But inside Juliet I don’t think she ever understood deep down why murder was inherently bad

[@frankboff1260]

I think you are right. Pauline seems to have lived her life deeply regretting her actions. Juliet (now Anne Perry) has a career as a writer of murder mysteries. I get the sense that she never accepted her part in it deep down.

[@spikespiegelfanclub]

she most likely has complex post traumatic stress disorder (something i have as well and am very familiar with) which can be caused by neglect during childhood development.

[@lunacouer]

I agree. You know how they say psychopaths are born, but sociopaths are made? The Humes seem like the "How-To" guide on how to make a sociopath. She suffered trauma, over and over again, and it was mostly at the hands of her parents' abandonment. I'm just about as disgusted with the Humes as I am with Juliet.

[@frankboff1260]

Cheyenne Wildt I do too...but I seem to have developed an overly empathetic nature...

[@KitKat_293]

Tania PinkSky that’s wonderful honestly Tania, some traumatized or neglected children will end up extra empathetic because of their experiences. I’m so sorry for what you went through but I’m glad you came out of it with strong empathy

[@tymadds8575]

You’re a machine Steph!! Full time mumma AND you are constantly spoiling us with quality content! I don’t know how you do it girl 💗💗🥰🥰

[@StephanieHarlowe]

ty _ thank you so much! When you love what you do it’s not work!

[@sammysabo]

Stephanie Harlowe and it’s so obvious that you love what you do , your videos just ooze with passion for the stories you tell and the cases you cover it’s so refreshing to see someone genuinely care about the people you talk about ❤️

[@LovedHappy]

Right?!👏🏻🙌🏻👏🏻🙌🏻👏🏻

[@momzillainnova]

Hardest working person on KZbin!

[@jennyjenga1929]

Yes, very good quality content. I love her videos and all the info that I learn from watching her vids.

[@thebovineavenger]

I think the scariest part of this ENTIRE things is. I read MOST of Ann's books. Loving them, thinking they were great books and being sad every time I finished a book. NOW I wonder if some of those books were just Ann telling the story of how she HAD or WOULD kill people if she could. Makes me think different about any book I will ever read again. Never knew Ann(the writer) was a sick girl who helped kill a women. Makes me look at those books in a whole new light. YIKES. Thanks for the upload and thanks for making me realize I NEED to look into the Author of any book I plan to read from now on.

[@Icanya69]

Likewise, I and a great Anne Perry fan. Love her books as they are such a great insight into the Victorian era. When I found out about this murder, I was completely freaked. Think about her Monk protagonist! A police inspector with no memory of his past.

[@hannahmoody-goo8739]

Lots of authors were terrible people but still created great works of art. It’s a hard balancing act as a reader to separate the work from the author and to decide which is more important.

[@SandraS1397]

After knowing about Ann it makes you wonder about VC Andrews past and what could be hidden there. Good stories but very dark and twisted and always with a central theme of child abuse of one kind or another, incest, and murder.

[@notsurewhattobelieve2990]

Totally agree. I would hate to contribute to the financial benefit of evil beings. They are evil for ever. They will never be safe. This was not manslaughter. This was sickness that was enjoyed with absolute sang froid.

[@Annasea666]

I find her writing extremely hard to follow. Ive tried several of her books and can't get through one chapter

[@exorcisingerica3486]

Juliette had no empathy and that goes back to her childhood. How you bond with your child in the first 5 years determines a lot

[@rachelann9362]

Absolutely. It’s NO surprise that she doesn’t has any empathy or sympathy. She had NO attachment to her mother, and her mother reinforced that time and time again. That lack of emotional attachment in her early years where we learn how to love, feel secure, and develop attachment habits was bound to cause issues at some point. My own mother was emotionally distant, and so was my father. I wasn’t abandoned like she was for some of my early years, but my level of attachment and how I interact with people was greatly affected. My father was extremely distant when their marriage was falling apart, and he basically disappeared from the face of the earth for YEARS when I was in grade school. My oldest sister saw him in a store like 4-5 years later-he either didn’t see her, or ignored her, and she followed him to his new home to confront him. Meanwhile, my mother.. well she was always emotionally distant, she’d dump her problems on me, and if I ever needed some support for anything it somehow became about HER and my issue and feelings were nothing. I stopped trying long before my father moved out. As a result, I either don’t get attached at all, or I have very intense attachments (Like Juliet and Pauline’s bond.) There’s so many other issues that along with-like reading people, dealing or even recognizing emotions (alexithymia is massive pain), how to address conflicts, intimate contact (even like hugs and stuff-I still can’t stand them because it feels “wrong” and “unnatural” since i wasn’t exposed to it), what’s appropriate for different types of relationships, etc. Thankfully I DO have empathy, but I can see how a more severe case of a “refrigerator mother” like Juliet’s mother can result in having none and resulting in someone that was okay with murdering someone and feeling nothing over it. People used to think moms like that gave their kids autism, but its really helping sociopathy, psychopathy, and bpd traits to become the status quo for the genetically predisposed child. Of course they also thought kids with autism didn’t have feelings or empathy.. psychology was really shit for a long time.

[@stephsoohall6841]

@@rachelann9362 I have autism and I don’t understand why some ppl think we don’t have feelings. The forgot said that I lacked empathy

[@stephsoohall6841]

However I probably seemed try at way cuz that was when I wa being dignosed and I was having sensory overload and that’s hard to deal with and I tend to feel a lot of pain and come off as in emotional at times.

[@melaniebrown6805]

the fact Anne/Juliet writes murder mysteries. I think she had way more to do with planning it tbh.

[@JustJ.]

Who else wants Stephanie to take a multiple episodes look into The Salem Witch Trials? It’s a fascinating psychological study as well as being a tragic period in New England’s history.

[@ayec.u.1248]

I support this idea

[@marie-bw9zb]

omg yes

[@Leorakatify]

I would definitely watch that!!

[@sallysparrow7306]

Yassss

[@wendychristensen5506]

Yes

[@ladycanada35]

MOIDER should be the new CODE-word to get past the youTube demonetization Censors

[@akehapkap6143]

Lady Canada Troy Croime 😂

[@TheGomezdotcom]

I was so confused when I saw this! Where I live (Wales), 'moider' is slang for wasting someones time or when someone is just talking rubbish 😂😂

[@amymarie6809]

🤣🤣🤣

[@AndreaPalmer-hi8xq]

I thought it meant builder

[@briannabelle8815]

SHE BECAME A MORMON I’m screaming internally

[@nikkihatfield2055]

@Brianna Belle: Why?

[@indyrawr1756]

Yeah! Lol! I wonder if it stook!

[@maryevelyn3059]

Wrote under her new assumed name And is worth about 10 million dollars!!

[@kaleidoscopekayley]

Honestly, I'm not sure their weird relationship falls in the normal constructs of platonic vs romantic vs sexual relationships. This messed up of a relationship goes beyond those lines.

[@Tara-id3rk]

I agree. It was on a whole different level. Very enmeshed, toxic, delusional, obsessive. But obviously there was a lot of love and unwarranted loyalty there. It was a very strange dynamic, very obsessive.

[@ashesacedia]

It starts off being cool Because when you find people you click with, it's so great But whewwww did they cross a threshold

[@radaka]

I've never wrote in a diary or journal but it still amazes me how many people that do that write incriminating things

[@rwilliams9304]

RIGHT!

[@32mybelle]

Anne Perry still mininalizes her part in this murder. I watched an interview with her and she basically said she was an accessory to murder.

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Yup!

[@BiaG10]

Narcissist

[@thelittlemrs]

Think that's bs

[@frankboff1260]

Yes I think of the two Anne doesn’t come across as very remorseful but Pauline appears to have lived her entire life in a state of remorse. That’s the feeling I get anyway. Can’t believe that Anne went on to write murder mysteries?!

[@glitterlover3244]

Tania PinkSky I think its all a coping mechemism. She is trying to distance herself from the murder. She writes murder stories so she can have an outlet for it. It could be why she comes off so coldly, and the way she talks gives to the affect as well.

[@minniemercury4818]

You know...I was raised by an abusive malignant narcissist mother who did WAY WORSE to me and my siblings, but "moidering" her never once crossed my mind...I knew I was going to leave home and never come back (and I did) when i was close to their ages. What made these girls choose such an extreme murderous solution? No remorse at all. Baffling.

[@frankboff1260]

Minnie Mercury that’s true, same with me.

[@taylorboney1089]

I think she chose murder because it was a permanent solution to someone she saw as the main person that kept her from Juliet.

[@swankelly]

I was wondering why they didn't plan on reuniting as adults. It would've been upsetting in the meantime. Still, that's what most people would've done.

[@everybodylovesbowie]

@@swankelly yeah I wonder if they ever did meet up afterwards, and I wonder what that conversation would have been like if they did.

[@nickatnight9103]

I don't think they were insane. I don't think they would have ever murdered if they didn't have each other.

[@danielac2285]

Nick at night they never should have met

[@ferociousgumby]

I believe Pauline was pretty disturbed, and then they egged each other on and created a little universe of two. Juliet was a follower, but it's true, it was a symbiotic (parasitic?) relationship and they fed on each other. The casual way Pauline wrote in her diary about killing her mother is blood-chilling. The movie Heavenly Creatures is very closely based on Pauline's diary, and some of the entries are beyond belief. It's sociopathic stuff. Some vital piece is missing.

[@nickatnight9103]

It is chilling that they wanted to be together so badly that they were willing to do anything to accomplish that goal.

[@rosiellagrace]

Well, to be technical and an ass, folie a deux literally means the 'madness of two'.. it's something that fascinates me, like with Brady and Hindley, because if the two would never have met then we can see [looking back, obviously] that the crime[s] never would have happened. Madness and insane aren't exactly the same, to me, but some people will argue they are.

[@zencat55]

@@orangepulp392 just like the slenderman murder

[@jab6872]

I would love to hear what Juliet wrote in her diary! Hearing only Pauline's words kind of makes her out to be "worse", but the info is one-sided. I'm also curious as to how long their symbiosis took to actually separate. Of course that's something we'll never know, but I feel if it had happened a few decades later there would be psychologist jumping at the chance to document that process. SO glad I found your channel! If you ever want to read about a very interesting case, look up Blanche Monnier.

[@girlafraid4045]

oh man could you imagine if we had BOTH the girls dairies and hear the other *half* of their fairytale story

[@laurenh9401]

“She was fighting for her life, as they did everything they could to take it from her” - man that hit me

[@ath3na.64]

She really does have a way with words/describing these cases. She's my new favorite true crimetuber.

[@jessicac9946]

Same

[@Atypical_leo]

Yeah I felt the same way when she said that part. Stephanie is awesome when it comes to recreations

[@jessicareed5001]

Yep I did feel that line deeply. Stephanie is awesome

[@spookyoctober]

I got goosebumps at that line; so tragic and brutal. Stephanie truly has a way with words and puts a lot of power into it.

[@CountessGemini]

"It was so long ago, I was fifteen... just murdered someone... no biggie" I DIED :D

[@StephanieHarlowe]

😂😂😂

[@missquinn6325]

55:47 love your daughter just chilling in the back ground haha xxx

[@abbycross90210]

Biting her nails as she reads, too. Pretty much me my whole life.

[@bonkaz7]

Picking her nose and eating it 😂😂😂

[@SigridStorjern]

@@bonkaz7 I had to replay those clips a couple times because she got me distracted with all the nose picking action hahahaha I thought nobody would point that 😂

[@AJ_1namillion]

And here I am, thinking I was a bitchy teenager.

[@stephaniesanders3636]

Right! I'm like damn I thought I was bad 😬

[@GigiRulesTheRoost]

For those of you who haven't seen Heavenly Creatures it really is a must see. VERY well done. Jackson brings the fantasy world the two of these girls shared to the screen. Well done. Both actresses were superb. I actually bought the movie after I saw it.

[@norazanger2261]

The movie really upset me the first time I saw it. That last scene is truly disturbing and heartbreaking!

[@AbraSings]

I believe they were delusional to a certain extent, but they knew exactly what they were doing. 5 1/2 years was NOT enough.

[@michellewoolsey3294]

Abra AWE-bruh Singleton I understand what you’re saying as far as “punishment” is concerned. However if you view it purely from a reformative process and the safety of society, they both lived successfully amongst society after release and never reoffended

[@Marisssaaa.]

@@michellewoolsey3294 yeah only cause they didn't like jail not because they felt actual remorse plus wheres the justice for the mother who was killed?

[@michellewoolsey3294]

@@Marisssaaa. and you know this how, where do you get the information from that they weren't remorseful? Again I understand from a restorative justice view why people feel this way. But there can be no REAL restorative justice for murder. And using jail purely as a form of punishment is ineffective. Its main purpose should be the purpose of protecting society from dangerous criminals/repeate offenders who are unable to be rehabilitated. And rehabilitation for those who can be.

[@juliamahler415]

@@michellewoolsey3294 there is no way of knowing what kind of lives the 2 girls lived, we only know they became smart enough not to get caught again.....

[@akehapkap6143]

There is a huge difference between the prison system in the USA and Europe and Commonwealth. The main purpose with punishment is to protect the public against danger, but it also should have a kind of rehabilitation purpose. No one can read minds, and we don't know if these girls had remorse or not. They were children in many ways. In my country a child under 15 can not go to prison because they're under age. In USA people age 16-17 can get on death row. I'm general against the death penalty, because it's not preventive at all, it's also a big risk that innocent people get killed on circumstantial evidence. That's not good enough. USA, Iran! Iraq, China, Russia are all the same. They got death penalty. Except in Russia they get shot in the back of the head. In USA they thy all kind of "human" ways of killing people. It's still disgusting. It lowers the government down to the criminal level.

[@maureenjacobs7452]

Symbiotic relationship mutualism type. They were feeding on each other.

[@32mybelle]

Codependent

[@VioletJoy]

That really did seem to escalate things... especially considering they both seemed to have done sort of personality disorder, possibly partly caused by neglect in the younger years.

[@abbycross90210]

Folie a Deux is a fascinating and scary psychosis.

[@bleezeblocks]

i think that Juliet had some illness or trauma from her childhood that, after spending so much time with Pauline, took over the both of them. i think they were both confused teenagers who were angry at the world, and they put themselves in an echo chamber where only their opinions and lives mattered. they definitely understood the weight of what they did, they just didnt care. i want to be happy that they live "normal" lives now, but... the way Nora was brutally murdered... that is an image that never goes away. and they barely got a slap on the wrist for it!

[@CeltycSparrow]

I have heard the theory that children who grow up without a mother's love develop much differently than a child who DOES have that love. From the very beginning we clearly see this absence of maternal love between Juliet and her mother. Her mother was a social butterfly. She wanted to go to parties and be the rich and beautiful belle of the ball. She never wanted a daughter. When Juliet was a baby, her mother put her in a glass box because she felt children should not have love and attention. Juliet was left out in the snow when the bombs were dropping on London. She was abandoned at the family home when her Mom went to the hospital with her brother and forbidden to see her mother. She was tossed around to her grandmother and boarding schools and strangers throughout her childhood because her Mom didn't want to be bothered raising her and then when she was in the hospital possibly dying of tuberculosis.....her parents abandoned her YET AGAIN to go do their own thing. The only time she ever received attention and love and felt wanted was when she met Pauline and they created this fantasy world together. I'm sure Pauline was a very powerful influence in Juliet's life and she probably could have persuaded her to do just about anything. I definitely think murdering Pauline's mother was a deliberate act. They not only planned this moment.....they ENJOYED the thought of killing her. Pauline BRAGGED about it in her diary. The way these girls saw it, Nora was the catalyst that was keeping them apart and by killing her, they would ensure that they would always be together....be it in a mental asylum or otherwise.

[@unawarealien255]

I think Juliet looked up to Pauline almost as much as Pauline looked up to Juliet. Juliet had been abandoned so many times in her life that the simple act of Pauline sticking by her likely made her a saint in Juliet’s eyes.

[@tracyy45]

I love that one of your kids is sitting quietly and being so good in the background while you work. 🥰

[@Hvnybeee]

I have been waiting for this part 3 religiously, Steph you always bring a story together so well!

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Be C thank you so much!

[@blckshp5]

Me too!!

[@alexbaginski9513]

Hearing you talk about psychological experiments makes me think I'd love to hear more of that. I'm sure theres a handful of crazy psychological experiments to chat about as a mini series🤔

[@misakitakahashi8004]

the most horrible psychological experiments that come to mind are 1. the experiment where a triplets and twins were seperated and adopted out separately to research nature vs. nurture. 2. the monster study - where researchers induced stuttering in children via mental abuse to prove it's learned behavior. 3. the stanford prison experiment - meant to explore the nature of human nature. 4. mk ultra - meant to explore mind control via drugs and mental and physical abuse. (operation midnight climex was a similar) 5. milgram experiment - the one stephanie mentioned meant to see if people could be persuaded to do something they view as wrong via authority. 6. david reimer - who was raised as a girl at the advice of a psychologist who wantes to prove gender identity is learned and not inherent after a botched circumcision that completely mutilated his penis. 7. the 3rd wave experimemt - where a teacher convinced his students to relinquish democracy to prove people can be easily indoctrinated into ww2 like germans who went along with the nazis. 8. the facebook experiment - where they manipulated users' emotional states via their feed. 9. the aversion project - where gays were drugged and sibjected to electroconvulsive therapy to try and convert them into being straight. 10. monkey drug trials - where monkeys were administered drugs and alcohol to see if they would eventually become addicted and administer it themselves. 11. robbers cave experiment - where they used 11-12 yearolds to prove intergroup hostility can arise as a result of conflicting goals. 12. brown-eyed vs. blue eyed experiment - meant to demonstrate the impact of racism on education using school children. 13. little albert experiment - where a 9 month old orphan was traumatized to show it's possible to condition the element of fear into people. 14. landis facial expression experiment - meant to see whether different emotions create facial expressions specific to the emotion by making them do incredibly horrible things. 15. learned helplessness experiment - where they showed via abuse dogs can be conditioned to give up on trying to remove themselves from the source of abuse. 16. well of dispair experiment - where via isolation of infant monkeys it was concluded even a normal happy childhood was no defence against depression. i probably forgot about others... 🤔

[@pupados7544]

@@misakitakahashi8004 all of them!! Brilliant👌

[@pupados7544]

Definitely👌👌💯

[@Tinkertotz13]

I agree! That would be fascinating. Especially with how much research Steph puts into it.

[@AnnissaYahnke]

Definitely an interesting idea!

[@kaylalovescoffee]

“What up Pauline” 💀🗣💀🗣

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Or Hilary, whatever you call yourself these days

[@Mitsu2040]

I DIED!! :D :D

[@venge6093]

@@StephanieHarlowe she is still hilary and living on Orkney off the north coast of Scotland

[@cheradubi1194]

I thought that was hysterical 🤣

[@kristinmasker3919]

Am I the only one who came to see if she said hey back? 😂

[@curator3539]

I work in a library and I see Anne Perry books all the time and I had ZERO clue that she and Juliet were the same person. That's the fact my brain seems to be stuck on.

[@MyTinyBalcony]

I used to work in mental health in NZ, and a psychiatrist coined the term "insanity by association". They fed each other's darknesses. If I recall, Pauline Parker was found in the early 90s to be living on a backwater farm in Scotland. Even when I was a little girl in the 70s, this story was rampant then.

[@raffaelae1020]

I think Hilda liked the attention even during the trial. Any attention was good attention

[@nicoletteafile]

Narcissist

[@hannahholeman3868]

God only knows what her mother must have been like for her to fail so utterly at being one herself 😬

[@debraperkins4448]

YEP!!

[@amizizi4715]

Story telling is deff one of your talents. Jesus how do u come up with these one liners and still keep the seriousness of the situation?

[@pickles3128]

No way, she became THE Anne Perry?! I spent years working in a library in her section and I never knew any of this... In America they'd never have been released. Thanks so much for your hard work, I love listening to you while I get ready in the morning and in the car.

[@StephanieHarlowe]

I think you’re right. Even as juveniles they would have gotten longer sentences

[@amandaowens8458]

I think they both had lives they wanted to escape from. I can't imagine being left out in the snow while bombs dropped allaround. Juliet had to retreat into an inner world to find the approval her mother never gave. It's obvious she was treated as a burden and not a family member. She and Pauline came from different backgrounds but with similar baggage. I think really what happened was a combination of both of their inner turmoil and issues fed off of each other and they committed this crime as a way to stay together. At that time in their lives with so much going on the idea of being seperated scared them. If they were seperated who would they have? Is it mental illness, maybe but I think circumstances played a huge roll in this crime. If they were not together their world wouldnt exists anymore.

[@backwardsbandit8094]

These girls were, without a shadow of a doubt, extemely mentally ill, just not in the way that you can claim insanity. The way that emotional and physical neglect, trauma and feeling constantly ostracized impacts the brain during development ensures our brain to rely heavily on coping mechanisms for painful feelings. For Juliet and Pauline, they both escaped to a fantasy world together where they ruled the world and no one would ignore them. There, they didn't suffer from loneliness or trauma or isolation. These girls knew that they were different from day 1. Narcisissm can often develop in people who know that they aren't quite right but their brain instantly convinces them it's just because they're better than everyone. The brain does this to prevent them believing that they're actually incredibly miserable and inherently defective which would lower their mood, overall functioning and increase high suicidality. They both also suffered from extreme abandonment issues, especially Juliette. This coupled with the fact that they shared all of their coping mechanisms and became a coping mechanism for each other lead them to make such a strong pact between each other - to a very serious fault. These girls show signs of psychopathy, CPTSD, BPD and possibly even bipolar. Their entire lives before this event were a mix of terrible happenings that ensured that neither of them would live their lives without deep, extreme mental illnesses. The society that they lived in would never understand how they developed, they would condemn their love to a point where they denied it publicly, they would try to box them as good or evil, they would neglect their every emotional need growing up and never understand how they came to be. The pair of them today are obviously going to have major narrators bias, ESPECIALLY after becoming religious. I have my doubts that they'll ever see the truth about themselves and even if they do, they will never admit to themselves what happened, who they were and why they did it. They simply didn't grow up in an era that knew a whole lot about complex PTSD, the effects of childhood neglect, personality disorders in general and psychopathy.

[@Spring_Autumn]

👍

[@heather_doestruecrime]

Bottom line is that when you write "i have no conscience" & "its like the night before christmas" you KNOW what you are doing. They knew right from wrong.

[@AgapeForgotten]

It's moider she says! Joking aside, while very, VERY few people deserve death, it is awful that the mother that tried to be loving was the one who suffered.

[@memyselfi2005]

Yeah go figure huh

[@AmberL4565]

God hearing about how poor Nora was murdered is always so hard. Jesus. What a horrible way to die.

[@AmberL4565]

That scene is why I could never throughly research the case, I had to take a break from it

[@JeanGenie92]

Just the description made me feel ill. Don't think i want to see the movie. That poor woman.

[@darlingdeb7010]

OMG. My grandmother was an educator and LOVED murder mysteries. She'd keep every series she read...so I have countless floor to ceiling, wall to wall bookshelves FILLED with all types of books. I have sooooo many Anne Perry books, that I personally haven't gotten to in terms of reading. I've just kept thinking..."man, grandma really liked this author. These must be REALLY good..." 👀 APPARENTLY they're so good because the author has actual "Moider" in her background!!!! Mind blown. I know what series I'm going to start reading tonight...

[@cristinaalmazan2893]

My only thougth is that it shouldn’t be Norma Ripper who they killed, it should have been Hilda, that person didn’t deserve to be called a mother

[@calamityj3634]

Honora Rieper

[@samorachannel2093]

She was jealous that there was another female in the home, she didn't see Juliet as a child..

[@Thequietone974]

That’s who I thought they were going to kill🤨

[@jamimoor7311]

EXACTLY

[@marmor5930]

💯

[@slam5798]

I think that they were sane but they were also mentally ill, full of hurt, rage and they were desperate. I agree that alone, they wouldn't have committed murder but together... is another story.

[@iridizousa8578]

You just made washing dishes 100x more enjoyable

[@StephanieHarlowe]

I'm done that’s a lot of dishes!

[@iridizousa8578]

@@StephanieHarlowe I was done with the dishes by the time your video was done! Thank you for keeping me company 💕Keep it up

[@pleaseclap3335]

Juliet and Pauline def had something more than a friendship. You don't just take baths with a friend when y'all are teenagers. Sleeping in the same bed, yeah I've slept in the same bed with my girl best friend many times... but taking a bath, being nude together, and taking nude pictures of each other is a whole other level.

[@suzannenichols6900]

That and the comments in the diary afterwards about ultimately feeling so satisfied by the situation and taking their situation the whole way...the wording afterwards said it all to me.

[@floriansommer8339]

Some people definitely do. I personally did so. Except for taking pictures. But why not? Sounds actually pretty wholesome to me. If you don't try to fit relationships into boxes, things like that can definitely happen and that kind of relationship is the best imo.

[@araline2905]

In some cultures it's normal for friends to take baths together.

[@cloudyswildride]

@@araline2905 Not New Zealand culture.

[@tikamartin9553]

I took showers with my friends. Don't let us be getting ready to go somewhere it would be 4/5 of us in the shower at a time

[@luciasardo1176]

This was a very sad and heartbreaking case. I can't imagine the pain that woman must have went through in her final moments.

[@alexiscarrion3969]

These girls were completely sane. They were just incredibly bright and manipulative. Also with all the trauma and abandonment they experienced they depended on one another.

[@balticdemon]

This case is both so eerie and so fascinating... You are one of my favorite creators on here, and your in-depth looks are absollutely amazing.

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Zombie Queen thank you very much! I appreciate that ❤️

[@MADEbySOUL]

From Juliet's constant abandonment and trauma, I"m surprised her mother wasn't the one killed. I am also beyond worried that someone who murdered a person can be a stewardess.

[@katieelizabeth834]

This surprised me too.

[@Anna-dv5jy]

I mean released murderers have to work as well lol. Stewardess isn't the most disturbing job for an ex-murderer I can think of

[@clairey6407]

I'd say that they were not insane, but very disturbed and troubled girls who fed off each other's troubled emotions. I'd say they definitely had mental health issues which may have been caused, or were certainly influenced, by neglect and lack of proper guidance. Such a tragedy.

[@canyonmoongray6412]

I think they knew exactly what they were doing. I do not believe they were insane. Fab series Stephanie 🥰

[@vanessavannote3594]

People really be out here trying to justify Nora’s murder 😳😳😳😳 I am absolutely disgusted that these two psychos have been allowed and entitled to “move forward with their lives”, as they have stated. It’s hilarious to me that Juliet is employed by a publisher, while she’s a murderer; but God forbid my employer were to find out I might do scandalous things like smoke weed on my free time or use the company printer for personal errands 😂 also, she got a VISA in America??? What the literal F 🙄 Thank you for your hard work on this, Stephanie!!

[@pwnedddyoo]

“Reunited and it feels so good” 😂 your sarcastic comments are the best. I agree that if they hadn’t crossed paths, they wouldn’t have gone on to murder someone. Thanks for covering this case, I did not know about it!

[@ktgone]

I just have to say i am a huge dog lover and i always giggle when i see your dogs in the background. Ahem. Moving on and time to finish the video. I have always been interested in this case.

[@misakitakahashi8004]

this time we got a surprise cameo from stephanie's kid... lol

[@hiko73]

Me too, they always make me smile :)

[@japansace]

It’s crazy to me that just because you’re a minor, your sentence can go from literally being HANGED to only a little more than five years in jail.

[@nikkihatfield2055]

@Abby: A child doesn’t live in reality! These little girls were both abandoned by their parents in one way or another, their entire lives, all 15 years of them! The human brain is not fully grown until age 25-26. They grew up in different Countries, during the end of a brutal war with death and destruction all around them, isolated from school mates for various reasons and yet found solace in each other. In a 15 year old brain, it’s my opinion that if the Humes would not have acted as if they were going to take Pauline with them, the girl’s would not thought that Pauline’s mother would have been an obstacle!! Shame on them for abandoning their only daughter throughout infancy and her entire life! Despicable, disgusting self-centered POS!

[@alisse4175]

Nikki Hatfield hi as a 17 year old I can firmly say I would say murder anyone especially not my mom or my friends mom even if they didn’t pay attention to me :)

[@nikkihatfield2055]

@Alisse: I’m glad you have love and a good mom and friends Hon! I’m also glad you haven’t murdered anyone! Lol! 😂 Stay sweet Babe. 💖🤙

[@alyssaolson7964]

Well, I don't think it's okay to kill children even for this kind of thing, but you're right that maybe the sentence should have been harsher

[@reybensoulmates6498]

@@nikkihatfield2055 100% correct that the human brain is not fully developed until the 20s. Hence why kids don't correlate consequences to actions sometimes, or don't recognize the seriousness of the risks they take.

[@kkitao217]

I’m late getting to the party, since this was posted two years ago, but you did a great job. I’d been a fan of Ann Perry for years when the news came out, so I was really surprised. One of my first thoughts was that Perry writes like someone who really understands how much suffering murder causes. As for the girls’ diagnoses, it’s really hard to say. Judging from their behavior after the murder, there almost has to be some sociopathy there. I agree with you, though, that there was something interactive about it, too.

[@eddcoomber]

My heart breaks for Honorah. The final scene in Heavenly Creatures with her initial cry from the first blow is so haunting. As someone who lives in Christchurch, I can say that this case is still woven into the fabric that is our city’s history. I’ve been to Victoria park several times and I am very familiar with the locations of this case. The Parker home is long gone, the site redeveloped into townhouses by the 90s, and unfortunately the school was a victim to the quakes, with only the fence remaining. The site now just a carpark. Unfortunately their house in the film was burnt last year, but was on the other side of the city. At the time, the police station they were held at was literally around the corner from Pauline’s house. The film is excellent, harrowing now not just for the case it tells, but for us Cantabrians, a reminder of what we lost in the quakes as many of the locations have now been lost. Ilam (pronounced eye-lum) is still there and is part of the University Henry was rector of, after it moved from the central city to the suburb in the 60s and 70s. It’s a case that continues to fascinate, and I suppose serves us to never forget the poor victim of these two girls.

[@TarPatSlo]

Stephanie, I was glad to see you mention that Juliet was the more dominant of the two. That never seems to get mentioned in reviews of Heavenly Creatures and whatnot. Pauline adored Juliet and I think Juliet loved the adoration. I’m not sure she saw Pauline as quite as “heavenly” as her. And talking about it today, Perry just says she felt indebted to Pauline because Pauline was so loyal to her in the sanatorium. Perry also said in an interview 20-odd years ago that she was an “accessory” to murder. 🙄 No Anne, you were just as culpable and you both were charged with the same thing and found guilty of same.

[@AnnabelleCharrier]

I couldn't agree more. I will always love Heavenly Creatures but I dislike the portrayal of Juliet as almost a reluctant participant. Everybody who knew them - other girls, police, psychiatrists said Hulme was the "leader". Their own lawyers said that they did not think Pauline was quite as culpable. They even said they believed Juliet to be certifiably insane, but not Pauline. During the trial, it was Juliet who made callous remarks about Honora ("The old girl took a lot more killing than we thought she would") . Journalists reported how enraged she was to find out that Pauline had "cheated" on her with the boy named Nicholas. I believe completely in redemption and rehabilitation but the way Hulme/Perry now depicts herself as almost Pauline's victim is infuriating.

[@redlady935]

This is just so heartbreaking for everyone involved. To think of the horror of Nora's last few minutes

[@meganbarry4252]

I think they were/are mentally ill, but not so severely that it affected their ability to know right from wrong. Malingering at its finest- in my opinion.

[@melaniecossey1508]

I've actually met Anne Perry (Juliet) and sat down with her at a writer's conference and had her critique my work. I felt she was a bit "off" and her critique was well... strange.

[@kburnette7524]

How interesting. What were your thoughts on her?

[@OpheliaNL]

Care to elaborate?

[@ElizRued]

Why was the critique strange?

[@chandrabrown1622]

I'm also an author and a HUGE fan of Anne Perry....Now after watching this I feel...idk..kinda thrown off because WOW but also a little bit more hopeful about my books finally taking off. I mean hell, if she could be a success after so so many horrible things happened to her and after what she did? I will NEVER GIVE UP!!

[@stefany202]

I think they had a very toxic relationship. They fed off of each others fantasies, they were helping each other become more angry and delusional. However, like most toxic relationships it is not always obvious when you're in a bad relationship. You can feel like its good.

[@GinnyB.]

Mental illness...yes, there are many high functioning mental illnesses. One does not have to be completely loony to have one. These 2 are great examples of that.

[@lyndsayblassingame3797]

Ginny Lankford absolutely fantastic point___ crazy doesn't always look crazy.

[@bystarlite33]

You are so pretty 🤭

[@GinnyB.]

Awww.....thank you@@bystarlite33

[@hollieiriksdottir]

I agree. Thus was totally untreated mental illness that turned into psychosis

[@backwardsbandit8094]

Exactly. I would say the vast majority of mentally ill people are still at least conscious and functional-passing.

[@aprils3015]

Girllll never apologize for long videos, the longer the better!

[@Name-dl3uq]

Exactly. I recently started watching these long true crime documentaries and movie analysis videos that I literally am not able to watch a video unless it is longer than 30 minutes haha

[@samanthawalker74]

I believe they played off of one another. And together as one, they felt unstoppable and like they could conquer what ever they set their minds to. They fed off one another. They fueled one another and the ignition was intense and chaotic. But in no way were they insane.

[@kiarajurado9965]

I think the lack of sleep played a major part in their actions I know when I didn't sleep for a week I was extremely irritable I would lash out and wouldn't think straight. Also their very active imagination while sleep deprived added to the already building sanity and resulting to them living in their fantasy world believing they were above anyone

[@1stepcl0ser]

Imagine giving birth to a child and raising it and caring for it and then having that child killing you. 🤦🏻‍♀️ so horrible. Somehow it makes it even more horrible that they shared such a nice day together and then this happened. What a horrible way to die. What a vicious way to die.

[@OK.Graycie]

You should hear the Joel Guy story if you haven't already. That one was worse just due to unknown facts (such as, were the parents good parents or not or was he just a spoiled brat). I think these 2 girls were just wrong for each other. I don't know if Pauline would have done it on her own.

[@mrrictus]

Anne Perry flipped that brick of a crime several times and made bank from it.

[@juliachisolm]

I was JUST looking for something to watch while I drink my coffee!! Perfect timing.

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Julia I can’t find anything good to watch on YT lately!

[@pengarth1459]

Stephanie Harlowe would be great to have a recommendation night where we could discuss any cool channels or content and share n recommend ♥️ really love your channel

[@nerdyninjatemptress]

The one damn time that Hilda didn’t abandon Juliet. Too little, too late in my opinion. At every turn, her mother’s love and attention could’ve kept this whole tragedy from ever happening but being a mother was too inconvenient for her so her daughter, and eventually Nora Reaper, paid the price.

[@lalathekido]

The fact that Juliet just is an author now and is living her life with what seems to be no shame about this is totally and completely bizarre to me and I don't like it. I hate it, in fact.

[@susan4114]

And she is rich

[@indyrawr1756]

Same!

[@frostythehoeman6969]

God yes, I googled her and hate all her smiling author pictures UGH 🤮

[@tatyanamelnikoff9578]

yeah, and her books are fantasies about killing. screw her.

[@alyerickson7215]

Thats what makes me crazy, Juliet just sailed along to a new life. And from the interview(s) i read, she is full of excuses. (she claims it was probably TB med they treated her with that was mood altering plus she feared Pauline would take her own life and Juliet would be blamed). Not only living without shame but without much personal responsibility for the life she took. Held up as someone to be admired by her church. UG.

[@laurielyddy4890]

I have heard this story from a million different sources in watch different documentaries on it and I have never heard most of this stuff. This right here is exactly why I love Stephanie and her Channel!!! She always tells the fully rounded background stories of the important people involved. Her doing this, gives such insight into the possible reasons why these people did what they did. I also love how her opinions kind of 'slip' through. It's as if even though she's really trying to give everyone an unbiased background of their histories, she just can't help but comment. I really wish I had the extra money to become a patron because she would definitely be one of the first ones I'd choose!

[@shelby2184]

I don’t think they were insane at all. They knew exactly what they were doing. Hearing how they murdered her mother just had me feeling this deep sadness for Nora. Like...watching your daughter kill you and then leave you there to die. I just can’t even imagine how much fear and despair she felt in those last moments. That’s not random or anything. That’s calculated and cold.

[@Himaryous]

You can be mentally ill without being insane.

[@reeferlong9289]

I’m so thankful for your videos! 36 weeks pregnant and on bedrest, and I’ve been watching all of your videos. Also, your makeup is flawless!

[@cortneyfrench8808]

Now I am side eyeing all my kid's diaries I have never read 😂

[@ajldeville1]

After watching this series I decided to watch Heavenly Creatures. I typed the title into my Amazon Prime and low and behold there was a documentary called “Anne Perry, Interiors”. It’s very interesting to hear Juliet and Jonathan talk in first hand about their experiences and lives. Jonathan ended working for his sister as a research assistant

[@sarahjarrett8004]

I’m a bisexual woman and hearing paulines diary entry... it sounds exactly like how i felt after hooking up with my first girlfriend 😂😂😂😂

[@nerdalotdulac8552]

Same here 🤣

[@NeoWoot]

I think they were both insane. Being together definitely fueled whatever evil they had hidden within in each of them. Two small fires that created a raging bonfire

[@slickvic40]

folie a deux was also the name of An X-Files episode back in the day. Just a bit of X-Files trivia.

[@SammyyJaynee]

Off today and a new Stephanie Harlowe video? Yas 😍

[@StephanieHarlowe]

Sammy-Jayne happy day off!

[@thearcadegamer8128]

Same

[@lisaballico]

“ just my opinion;don’t come at me “ Love it, its a classic. I would wear a t-shirt with that slogan. X

[@dannilawrence8709]

I raised a step daughter that refused to answer to her name but was friends with 3 other friends that all thought they were wolves and gave each other new names . I was scared of her . She cut my hair while I slept and treated her half brothers insane and hurtful . After a year I left the home with our kids . To this day she still goes by her wolf name but has not been in any trouble but it still scares me

[@kendramanley2772]

I’ve always been curious if either one of them wanted to reconnect later on. I knew they grew out of this phase in their life, but I would love to know what they think of each other now.

[@sbryant5293]

Kendra Manley it’s reported that back in 2012 that they lived less than 100 miles from each other in Northern Scotland

[@kendramanley2772]

s bryant well I also heard through documentaries and things that Pauline still “obsessed” about Juliet, but so interesting that Ann Perry was so dismissive of the relationship and murder! They both committed in the past, almost makes you more sympathetic to Pauline than her.

[@kathrinen3834]

Oooooh. What documentaries?

[@maryjocassell48]

I had understood that part of their punishment for the murder was that the girls couldn't have any further contact with each other.☮️☮️

[@jmarie9997]

I think it was a case of 'The Perfect Storm', if that makes sense.

[@aimeegwatney5662]

Yes, these two were a nightmare together - an evil duo. Thankyou Stephanie!

[@socaldeb]

I love the comic relief you add to the telling if this case, lol "after a hard day of "moider", its Miller time".

[@genesisgreen4996]

Anybody who gives Stephanie a thumbs down is unhappy in life! She’s an amazing story teller. I love her channel so much. Her videos are my new obsession. Haven’t been told stories this well since I was a little girl in school.

[@StephanieHarlowe]

I love you! Thank you!

[@subanakatz4943]

yes she is!! I love a good story & she always tells a complete story. I love her videos because she seems to cover every possible angle!

[@animula6908]

Sometimes it’s just to keep the algorithm from thinking I want my feed jammed with true crime recommends. Funny that you feel justified judging my whole life over not liking a video you like. 😄

[@furrythefox6285]

When I was in school, I was always more afraid of the teen girls than of the boys or even grown men. Teenage girls can be extremely vicious and cruel and I have witnessed several times how girls were bullied by other girls on a more violent level than I have ever seen boys do. They were especially cruel when they were around boys they wanted to impress or thought they had something to prove to. Watching videos and reading about cases that involve murderous young women always triggers me a little, I can't help it. I still get nervous when I see teen girls in the street or when I have to walk past a school, even though girl-on-girl bullying was rarely ever directed at me in my school days. The case was very well researched and presented (as always :) ) and I enjoyed it, even though it hit a little close to home for me. Please excuse any mistakes I might have made. English is not my first language, but I'm trying. :)

[@sugarqcoat]

this is so weird lmao, there’s nothing i fear more than grown men, you can’t compare the two.

[@reybensoulmates6498]

Statistically though males are FAR more likely to "moider" than females, no matter where you live or what country you are from.

[@reybensoulmates6498]

@@sugarqcoat yeah. Too many "grown men" are actually just immature, selfush, dangerous toddlers in older bodies. Edit: selfish

[@kimberlydubose3192]

They were not insane. They were both narcissistic and delved into a fantasy world they created where they were admired, entitled, and did not have to consider anyone else's feelings. They both lacked empathy for others, yet found a soulmate in one another.

[@claireb3089]

After a google search I see that both women lived within 90 miles (and an hour long ferry ride) away from one another in the north of Scotland! I live nearby and after watching this series I cant see this being a coincidence, maybe just too close to home... Thanks for making the series!

[@katg2187]

Holly Crow, Anne Perry is one of my favorite authors. I can't believe she is a killer. 🤯 mind blown.

[@LH-Oz]

I’m just more in shock at the fact that they only served 5 years in prison for such a gruesome crime. Crazy!