Stephen Braude - What is Consciousness?

Free access to Closer To Truth's library of 5,000 videos: closertotruth.com/
Consciousness is what we can know best and explain least. It is the inner subjective experience of what it feels like to see red or smell garlic or hear Beethoven. Consciousness has intrigued and baffled philosophers. To begin, we must define and describe consciousness. What to include in a complete definition and description of consciousness?
Support the show with Closer To Truth merchandise: bit.ly/3P2ogje
Watch more interviews on the mystery of consciousness: rb.gy/abc7z
Stephen E. Braude is an American philosopher and parapsychologist. He is a past president of the Parapsychological Association, Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration, and a professor of philosophy at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
Register for free at CTT.com for subscriber-only exclusives: bit.ly/3He94Ns
Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

[@b.g.5869]

I noticed two things about a lot of the people that comment on these CTT videos. The first is that despite the fact that Robert is very clearly _much_ younger in most of them than he appears in his current "Chats" videos, they seem to think they're all new and that Kuhn is just a guy posting videos to KZbin. That's not what this is. These are clips from episodes of a public television show that's been on and off the air for 23 years, and most of these clips (including this one) are well over ten years old. The second thing I've noticed is that they assume everyone interviewed by Kuhn is a world class respected scholar. While it's true he has had an amazing assortment of world renowned scholars and scientists and philosophers appear on his show over the years, including Nobel laureates, he also has had genuine crackpots on his show over the years (fortunately they're the exception and not the rule). It's not because Kuhn isn't aware that they're crackpots; he is. But he is interested in presenting a wide range of views and towards this end, he has had bonafide cranks from the fringe on several occasions (e.g. Rupert Sheldrake, 'parapsychologists', psychics, etc). Braude here is an example of one of the latter. Though he has impressive academic credentials (it should be noted he's a philosopher, not a scientist), he is best known for advocating pseudoscientific views such as claiming psychic mediums are legitimate and that the future can be predicted by astrology etc. He has on several occasions defended proven frauds as legitimate psychics and has a tendency to make very strong assertions based solely on dubious anecdotal evidence. You shouldn't assume everyone interviewed by Kuhn is a world renowned intellectual. Here for the most part all Braude does is make radical pronouncements and when pressed to justify them responds by saying there's not enough time and providing an unpersiaive 'example' that explains nothing. The example he provided when trying to defend his assertion that memory traces require an infinite regress was particularly ridiculous. Tennis balls and ambiguous photos are unreliable, therefore, infinite regress? You could just video tape the dinner party for crissakes. Since it's just a thought experiment anyway you could simply also have the guests leave fingerprints and take DNA samples; it's not that hard to prove someone was definitely at the party. Also, there have been many experiments with rats demonstrating that memories can be erased. To cite one example, it was conclusively demonstrated that specific long term memories in rats were erased after being injected with an enzyme inhibitor that blocks a protein which controls the flow of information involving memory between brain cells.

[@HyzersGR]

Correct and succinct.

[@thomassoliton1482]

The people that praise this episode must be high on pot. Specific brain lesions produce anterograde amnesia In which people can’t remember anything more than a few minutes in the past. On The other hand, Carl Pribram (a real scientist) was able to stimulate specific points in the brain of an a human surgery patient that produced a specific memory, and that memory could be evoked repeatedly when the stimulus was re-applied. Those two facts mean that specific memories are indeed localized in the human brain. I will say that consciousness requires working (short-term) memory. Without memory, you cannot compare. If you cannot compare, you cannot claim you exist. Consciousness is fundamentally relative just like physics.

[@kallianpublico7517]

​@@thomassoliton1482You're conflating the ability to memorize things with a specific memory. Can you erase the specific memory that fire is hot? Don't just show me a damaged brain and say this guy no longer has ANY short term or long term memory, show me the erasure of specific memories and not a whole class of abilities. Your example is like cutting off someone's legs and then telling me he forgot how to walk. He also forgot how to ride a bike, do leg curls, squats, swim..... ? Give me a break with that muddle headed nonsense!

[@thomassoliton1482]

@@kallianpublico7517 You're right! My brain is just a CPU and my memories are stored under my bed. Experiments in both humans and rats have been done showing that specific memories are stored in the brain. The memories are not like a picture or a movie, but distributed synaptic changes that are activated during the "recall" process. It is undoubtedly even more complicated than that, but they are stored somewhere / somehow in the brain - that's the best current explanation. If you have a better explanation, I'm all ears.

[@kallianpublico7517]

@@thomassoliton1482 stored? Why not use the term activated? Certain "memories" are activated by touching the brain 🧠, or certain abilities of the senses? Smell, sight, sound,etc? Recollection of impressions are memories. As has been recently researched unless one has an eidetic memory, recollection is being updated by psychological reasons. Memory changes over time. For you to assert that specific memories are being stored and re-activated by touching certain parts of the brain it makes me wonder about all the other parts of the brain and body that aren't being touched. A memory includes all of the senses as well as physical and psychological components. How could a specific memory be stored in only one part of the brain or body? Gimme a break. Doesn't gut bacteria play a part in memory?

[@mauricemeijers7956]

“We have to get over our physics envy”, brilliant! I would wear that shirt 😀👍

[@adelinrapcore]

This dude is the final boss of thinking

[@Pseudothink]

I bet he doesn't talk like this at dinner parties but wishes he could.

[@tashriquekarriem8865]

Yeah he bad 😂

[@michael.forkert]

_May be he is in fact the final boss of thinking, may be he’s not._ _And what’s the meaning of “boss of thinking”? Perhaps a guy who bosses you to think the same stuff he thinks?_

[@Polynuttery]

Robert Kuhn, I wish we were all as balanced, fair and respectful as you are. You are a great example. And a very nice interview.

[@awarenesskey]

😊😊😅

[@BestCosmologist]

This is the most fascinating thing I have heard in a long time.

[@mitrabuddhi]

Panqualia vs Qualia: Qualia refer to the subjective experiences of consciousness, such as the redness of red or the pain of pain. They pose the hard problem of consciousness: how do physical processes in the brain generate subjective experience? Information theory suggests consciousness arises from complex patterns of information processing in the brain. However, this does not fully explain the emergence of qualia. Panqualia proposes that qualia are intrinsic properties of all information, not just that in complex systems like brains. According to this view, all information patterns have some inherent phenomenal character. However, only some information systems, like biological brains, have the necessary complexity, connectivity, and organization to express or manifest the qualia they possess. Atoms, molecules and simpler systems have information but lack the means to communicate any qualitative experiences they have. For intrinsic qualia to be expressed, information likely needs to be structured and organized into detectable informational configurations that a mind can grasp as conscious experiences. Brains appear able to “reduce the qualia resolution” of immense amounts of information at the atomic and molecular level. They filter, integrate and organize this information into perceptual representations and higher-level concepts that form the contents of consciousness. This suggests qualia exist on a continuum. Systems with organized, detectable information have “accessible” qualia that can be expressed. Those with disorganized, microscopic information have “inaccessible” qualia that cannot be communicated. neural networks in the brain generate highly complex, interactive, dynamic patterns of activity that likely far exceed the complexity of atomic-level processes.But A single conscious thought involves a low-resolution sampling of the brain’s immense representational capabilities, filtering most of the complex information being processed. Meanwhile, the underlying molecular and atomic dynamics maintain an “information resolution” that far exceeds any single conscious experience due to the enormous number of possible states and configurations, even within single neurons producing a thought. So For qualia to be expressed at all, the high-resolution qualia inherent in atomic and molecular information needs to be reduced through organizational processes forming coherent representations a mind can grasp. The vast qualia resolution at the quantum scale cannot be directly expressed in consciousness; the information must first be organized and structured neurally. The resultant reduction in qualia resolution allows the organized information to form the content of a representational abstraction like a thought that a mind can potentially apprehend as a conscious experience. Biological brains appear optimized to reduce qualia resolution to an intermediate level that generates coherent representations complex enough for consciousness to arise. drmora.ir/2023/06/30/panqualia-vs-qualia/

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Society has cast out the Divine. Consciousness is the soul. You..........Falun Gong

[@Reinhard_Schneider]

Then you must be confused.

[@justinmurre5193]

@BestCosmologist Which part of it in particular?

[@shahrazade26]

This video absolutely boggles my mind. I love it.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Society has cast out the Divine. Consciousness is the soul. You..........Falun Gong

[@BulentBasaran]

​@@jeffforsythe9514 Not totally, fortunately.

[@Great_WOK_Must_Be_Done]

Consciousness is the fundament of reality.

[@mitrabuddhi]

Panqualia vs Qualia: Qualia refer to the subjective experiences of consciousness, such as the redness of red or the pain of pain. They pose the hard problem of consciousness: how do physical processes in the brain generate subjective experience? Information theory suggests consciousness arises from complex patterns of information processing in the brain. However, this does not fully explain the emergence of qualia. Panqualia proposes that qualia are intrinsic properties of all information, not just that in complex systems like brains. According to this view, all information patterns have some inherent phenomenal character. However, only some information systems, like biological brains, have the necessary complexity, connectivity, and organization to express or manifest the qualia they possess. Atoms, molecules and simpler systems have information but lack the means to communicate any qualitative experiences they have. For intrinsic qualia to be expressed, information likely needs to be structured and organized into detectable informational configurations that a mind can grasp as conscious experiences. Brains appear able to “reduce the qualia resolution” of immense amounts of information at the atomic and molecular level. They filter, integrate and organize this information into perceptual representations and higher-level concepts that form the contents of consciousness. This suggests qualia exist on a continuum. Systems with organized, detectable information have “accessible” qualia that can be expressed. Those with disorganized, microscopic information have “inaccessible” qualia that cannot be communicated. neural networks in the brain generate highly complex, interactive, dynamic patterns of activity that likely far exceed the complexity of atomic-level processes.But A single conscious thought involves a low-resolution sampling of the brain’s immense representational capabilities, filtering most of the complex information being processed. Meanwhile, the underlying molecular and atomic dynamics maintain an “information resolution” that far exceeds any single conscious experience due to the enormous number of possible states and configurations, even within single neurons producing a thought. So For qualia to be expressed at all, the high-resolution qualia inherent in atomic and molecular information needs to be reduced through organizational processes forming coherent representations a mind can grasp. The vast qualia resolution at the quantum scale cannot be directly expressed in consciousness; the information must first be organized and structured neurally. The resultant reduction in qualia resolution allows the organized information to form the content of a representational abstraction like a thought that a mind can potentially apprehend as a conscious experience. Biological brains appear optimized to reduce qualia resolution to an intermediate level that generates coherent representations complex enough for consciousness to arise. drmora.ir/2023/06/30/panqualia-vs-qualia/

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Do not quit your day job oh great sage. Each human has two identical souls, one is the immortal primordial soul, you, and the other is the secondary soul. The secondary soul's role is to keep you on a righteous path, if it can.................Falun Gong

[@Two_But_Not_Two]

@@jeffforsythe9514 Falun Gong teaches the virtues of truth, benevolence and *forbearance.*

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Society has cast out the Divine. Consciousness is the soul. You..........Falun Gong

[@Great_WOK_Must_Be_Done]

@@jeffforsythe9514 You've already lost the battle. Your brain is fried by dogma. Standard human condition. Break free, fool. Break free.

[@playpaltalk]

Robert he is saying that you are asking the wrong question because he doesn't have an answer😂

[@kallianpublico7517]

He does have an answer. He isn't telling Robert his question is wrong, he's telling him his answer isn't of the same type that physicists would accept. Even though physicists don't have an answer for where the big bang started or how it started.

[@playpaltalk]

@@kallianpublico7517 I was reading his mind I know what he meant.

[@danieladmassu941]

Spot on.

[@radicalveg00]

Fascinating. One of the most provocative discussions I've heard in a long time.

[@shahrazade26]

On the first point you made, I had no idea. Thanks for sharing.

[@thelionsam]

Great contentious discussion...

[@lambda4931]

Very interesting! Thank you!

[@MrSridharMurthy]

So refreshing to hear this fascinating talk. It awakened a dormant part of my mind ! Thanks!

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Now awaken the other 90%.....................Falun Dafa

[@mitrabuddhi]

Panqualia vs Qualia: Qualia refer to the subjective experiences of consciousness, such as the redness of red or the pain of pain. They pose the hard problem of consciousness: how do physical processes in the brain generate subjective experience? Information theory suggests consciousness arises from complex patterns of information processing in the brain. However, this does not fully explain the emergence of qualia. Panqualia proposes that qualia are intrinsic properties of all information, not just that in complex systems like brains. According to this view, all information patterns have some inherent phenomenal character. However, only some information systems, like biological brains, have the necessary complexity, connectivity, and organization to express or manifest the qualia they possess. Atoms, molecules and simpler systems have information but lack the means to communicate any qualitative experiences they have. For intrinsic qualia to be expressed, information likely needs to be structured and organized into detectable informational configurations that a mind can grasp as conscious experiences. Brains appear able to “reduce the qualia resolution” of immense amounts of information at the atomic and molecular level. They filter, integrate and organize this information into perceptual representations and higher-level concepts that form the contents of consciousness. This suggests qualia exist on a continuum. Systems with organized, detectable information have “accessible” qualia that can be expressed. Those with disorganized, microscopic information have “inaccessible” qualia that cannot be communicated. neural networks in the brain generate highly complex, interactive, dynamic patterns of activity that likely far exceed the complexity of atomic-level processes.But A single conscious thought involves a low-resolution sampling of the brain’s immense representational capabilities, filtering most of the complex information being processed. Meanwhile, the underlying molecular and atomic dynamics maintain an “information resolution” that far exceeds any single conscious experience due to the enormous number of possible states and configurations, even within single neurons producing a thought. So For qualia to be expressed at all, the high-resolution qualia inherent in atomic and molecular information needs to be reduced through organizational processes forming coherent representations a mind can grasp. The vast qualia resolution at the quantum scale cannot be directly expressed in consciousness; the information must first be organized and structured neurally. The resultant reduction in qualia resolution allows the organized information to form the content of a representational abstraction like a thought that a mind can potentially apprehend as a conscious experience. Biological brains appear optimized to reduce qualia resolution to an intermediate level that generates coherent representations complex enough for consciousness to arise. drmora.ir/2023/06/30/panqualia-vs-qualia/

[@jeffforsythe9514]

@@mitrabuddhi Mumbo jumbo. The Creator created your primordial soul in Heaven countless trillions of years ago, next question please..............Falun Gong.............Its teacher is a Buddha.

[@mitrabuddhi]

@@jeffforsythe9514 sorry i couldn't understand what you said.

[@talposdorin8266]

Shall we iterpret that memory means constiesness?????????????????????How stupid we are by analize 😂as fenomens

[@needinovationkerasievceram9060]

I am loving it..i am yet not complete the whole (in 7.50 sec)... an i am loving it..............to its end!!!

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

Very interesting, thanks to you both. Sometimes we remember things immediately, and at other times, memories are lost, or a memory may re-surface somehow, after some time. In the Vedic philosophical view of matter, spirit and consciousness, there is an inconceivable (mostly meaning not mechanically measurable) connection, between each individual spirit/soul - which animates each physical body - and an all-pervading, all-cognizant spirit as Godhead, consciously accessible and acting as friend and guide from within. Consciousness is said to be the symptom of both the individual spirit, and the all-sentient Godhead as well. In Bhagavad-Gita that Universal sentience speaks as Krishna, who says "I am the source of all remembrance, forgetfulness and knowledge." Across human experiences of consciousness, whether one is a scientist, musician, athlete, poet, cook or baker or candlestick maker, one may experience a breakthrough in knowledge or memory in a moment 'inspiration' - which is probably not unconnected to the entomology from Middle English - in the sense of inspiration as "divine guidance". It is noted in Vedic thought that the divine sentience is connected internally even to species with lower levels of consciousness such as animals - who are also guided from within on regular migratory travels over great distances over land, air and sea. It's no secret that many scientists consider it beneath them to accept that a divinity - with inconceivable qualities they cannot measure within their own bandwidth, could exist - but even just considering the paradigm that infinite possibilities could exist - then a Godhead who is consciously connected to, and organizing all levels of life (spirit), matter and laws of nature as their Source, is one such possibility.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Each human has two identical souls, one is the immortal primordial soul, you, and the other is the secondary soul. The secondary soul's role is to keep you on a righteous path, if it can.................Falun Gong

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Society has cast out the Divine. Consciousness is the soul. You..........Falun Gong

[@skronked]

Well stated!❤

[@justinmurre5193]

May I ask if you just know Vedic philosophy or are a practicisioner/applicant of it, too?

[@3-dwalkthroughs]

@@justinmurre5193 Yes, I feel fortunate to have started studying and practicing since 1972, and still studying and learning. 🙏🏻🙂

[@rogerjohnson2562]

To me it seems Baude is expanding the 'qualia' mystery to include 'memory qualia'. This is goung to tickle me wonderfully, thanks to you both!

[@offtheradarsomewhere.]

What is consciousness ? A GIFT and a BLESSING 💙💫🙏

[@stanleygabrel1045]

What a fantastic interview, love Mr. Braude, and I think he is right.

[@RhymesofUnison]

Wow!! Never heard or thought of this perspective, and it just makes sense!

[@simonhibbs887]

Except for the fact that we've had computers that could perform the feats he claims are impossible for mechanistic memorisation processes for over 50 years.

[@mitrabuddhi]

Panqualia vs Qualia: Qualia refer to the subjective experiences of consciousness, such as the redness of red or the pain of pain. They pose the hard problem of consciousness: how do physical processes in the brain generate subjective experience? Information theory suggests consciousness arises from complex patterns of information processing in the brain. However, this does not fully explain the emergence of qualia. Panqualia proposes that qualia are intrinsic properties of all information, not just that in complex systems like brains. According to this view, all information patterns have some inherent phenomenal character. However, only some information systems, like biological brains, have the necessary complexity, connectivity, and organization to express or manifest the qualia they possess. Atoms, molecules and simpler systems have information but lack the means to communicate any qualitative experiences they have. For intrinsic qualia to be expressed, information likely needs to be structured and organized into detectable informational configurations that a mind can grasp as conscious experiences. Brains appear able to “reduce the qualia resolution” of immense amounts of information at the atomic and molecular level. They filter, integrate and organize this information into perceptual representations and higher-level concepts that form the contents of consciousness. This suggests qualia exist on a continuum. Systems with organized, detectable information have “accessible” qualia that can be expressed. Those with disorganized, microscopic information have “inaccessible” qualia that cannot be communicated. neural networks in the brain generate highly complex, interactive, dynamic patterns of activity that likely far exceed the complexity of atomic-level processes.But A single conscious thought involves a low-resolution sampling of the brain’s immense representational capabilities, filtering most of the complex information being processed. Meanwhile, the underlying molecular and atomic dynamics maintain an “information resolution” that far exceeds any single conscious experience due to the enormous number of possible states and configurations, even within single neurons producing a thought. So For qualia to be expressed at all, the high-resolution qualia inherent in atomic and molecular information needs to be reduced through organizational processes forming coherent representations a mind can grasp. The vast qualia resolution at the quantum scale cannot be directly expressed in consciousness; the information must first be organized and structured neurally. The resultant reduction in qualia resolution allows the organized information to form the content of a representational abstraction like a thought that a mind can potentially apprehend as a conscious experience. Biological brains appear optimized to reduce qualia resolution to an intermediate level that generates coherent representations complex enough for consciousness to arise. drmora.ir/2023/06/30/panqualia-vs-qualia/

[@simonhibbs887]

@@mitrabuddhi “Brains appear able to “reduce the qualia resolution” of immense amounts of information at the atomic and molecular level. They filter, integrate and organize this information into perceptual representations and higher-level concepts that form the contents of consciousness.” The problem here is that we’ve established in another thread that the underlying qualia of signal information cannot contribute to the stimulated qualia experience. The existence of synesthesia, in which signals of seeing red stimulate feelings of tasting sourness, prove this. Signals of sourness can cause us to see red. There’s no qualia property transmitting the sourness, there can’t be. So it must be the information of the signal itself that stimulates the high level qualia experience, not any underlying qualia associated with it. That last sentence of yours is absolutely on point though, that’s a very succinct summary of what’s going on. However everything you say about qualia I believe can be replaced by talking about information and everything would stay exactly the same. All it takes is to accept that certain ongoing transformational processes on information in the brain constitute qualia experiences. In fact, it seems like you already accept this.

[@vroomik]

How nice is to hear some novel approach and try to get your mind around it. Memories and mind phenomena do need "special treatment".

[@kallianpublico7517]

"...memory has to be stored..." What an essential, possibly provable, definitely enlightening, line of inquiry! Brilliant 👏! Consciousness doesn't have to be stored. It's right there when you wake up! But navigating consciousness? Relating the "self" to what consciousness presents? That takes epimetheus and prometheus: afterthought and forethought. Of the two which requires more memory? Certainly afterthought is memorized. Bumping into something, tasting, smelling, etcetera. The body and senses responding to things that "present themselves" consistently doesn't have to be memorized, they just have to be affirmed. Consistent, reaffirmation is what "can" be memorized in afterthought. With experience the body and senses gets used to the consistent. Once this basic interaction is "stored" that becomes a baseline memory or, to use computer lingo, your database. Having been presented this database further experience presents us with "choice". We learn to choose which memory, dataset, is preferable. Which brings more pleasure. This can lead to desire, but not necessarily. It is only with desire that human "will" is formed. Because choice does not necessarily lead to desire. If one is familiar with parenting, one has experience with "guiding" children into doing things. It is only after children have enough experience, pick up preferences, do they become "self-guiding". It is in the realm of preferences that "forethought" rears it head. Forethought activates when the "self" learns not just to react but to interact. Not just to go along but to choose! Not just to be conscious but to think: be self-conscious. Are our pleasures pre-programmed into us by dna? That is the crux of the question of free will.

[@JB_inks]

crap

[@kallianpublico7517]

@@JB_inks Besides the choice of doing this or doing that, children also learn the choice of doing something or not doing something. Avoidance is also a choice and also a part of the "will".

[@quill444]

One of the most startling things about consciousness is that as humans, we can all agree that often we dream, and that for the most part, during almost every dream, it seems as though we have a conscious experience of something tantalizingly real and believable occurring and happening to us. This would seem to indicate that the prerequisite rules in order for consciousness to occur might not be very complex, but actually be quite simple. And yet often upon awaking, it frequently all becomes quite absurd; but within the context of the dream itself, very often it surpasses whatever test or muster of realism we subject to it, or are able to apply toward it. Therefore, could and might we one day "wake up" from what is perceived to be this reality we live in, as we know it, and transcend that, too, and see it for the illusion that it may ultimately be? - j q t -

[@happy-nik]

I love your reply.

[@jermainroberts361]

very possible my friend

[@Agent-gh9tn]

Ive had that line of thought before. Trippy

[@lisac.9393]

Super interesting!

[@faqtum]

More like this Robert and you are getting closer to the truth

[@jeffforsythe9514]

I know God and He is the Truth, the Creator of all things and human beings are His most precious creations.................Falun Dafa.

[@faqtum]

@@jeffforsythe9514 I respect your coment, thank you. But maybe God is the most precious creation of the human beings.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

@@faqtum No chance. I can say that because God gave me His Divine Blessing 18 years ago. You can now make up some story that maybe I imagined it but I assure you, I did not. You just need to try a remember where you lost your faith and go get it back, good luck.

[@dr.satishsharma1362]

Excellent... thanks 🙏.

[@hansgruber2719]

Beautiful!

[@janhoogendijk8604]

Thanks for sharing the knowledge this is a true Closer to the truth moment.

[@davegrundgeiger9063]

"We might have to change the metaphors." 😍

[@opencurtin]

Memory for me is triggered by a present day event that brings back the past , feelings are stored in our bodies from past events which in turn can bring up memories .

[@gettaasteroid4650]

Time is a 1-dimensional Hilbert curve or another way to put it, time is quasi-2D in that it has space-filling properties

[@fartpooboxohyeah8611]

I wish I could be alive ten thousand years from now and come back and revisit this conversion and compare it relative to what would then be modern-day understandings and philosophies of the mind. Will the needle have moved in any direction, will there be theories and ideas that today can't even be imagined?

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

well they haven't so far

[@jenniferkruse7269]

Wondering about individuals that have challenges with retention. It honestly does feel more like an ability than a function of structure, similar to processing speed and other measures of IQ (as problematic as those tests can be for individuals with communication/language challenges). I think neuroplasticity is more about exercising muscles than about storage retrieval, in other words, and it makes sense given that individuals that are born with challenges in this area, that benefit from non-medical intervention and therapy both in terms of learning basic skills and in terms of PT and OT muscle coordination - often the case with developmental delays - need to exercise those brain muscles more in all, or most, areas than their neurotypical peers. And, therefore, I actually agree with Braude here, his approach in terms of practical medical and educational intervention for individuals with developmental delays just makes more sense. Good talk, thanks.

[@BulentBasaran]

Here is my takeaway from this fascinating talk: the assumption that human memory (and maybe all other mental stuff like thoughts and feelings) is stored somewhere in the world (in a brain, e.g.) is just that: an assumption. A deep seated one. And, it can be false, like others. E.g., the earth is flat, stars don't move, etc. Mental phenomena in general may be like causality, space and time. They are in our experience (and in our scientific models of the physical world), but not necessarily a part of the physical world. Maybe, mind is fundamental.

[@metternich05]

I watched most of the videos on this channel that cover the topic of consciousness. The sad thing is that all the self-claimed experts ultimately suggest we are not one bit closer to the understanding of consciousness and likely never will be. All the talking heads don't have the faintest clue of where to even begin the research. They just come up with fancy theories like this one, without the chance of ever getting them verified. I also read all the books by Dean Radin and while he seems to be conducting credible experiments in this field he doesn't offer any explanation either. I believe that we just need to accept the fact that consciousness is beyond our understanding and nothing will change this fact.

[@prototropo]

Dr. Braude has clearly imagined a coherent question landscape, with accounting for follow-up diversion and contingency questions. So then it's not surprising that his exploration of the answers is incredibly innovative and interesting. q For Dr. Kuhn, Braude's regard of the primary issues are all just "out of mainstream," just a radical upending of ideas that he can go no further with, even with a great intellectual scout leader at the ready. Same is true for Lex Fridman--a portfolio of obvious reckonings revealing his incapacity to think in good, nonobvious question landscapes. Both Kuhn and Fridman are television-style grandstanders.

[@rangtajha]

Memory is every where… no storage yet stored . Interestingly, we know how to retrieve it. When a particular area of brain is liaison /damaged, that part was responsible to retrieve the information required or related for certain tasks/area. Which we misinterpreted as memory was stored in it and any kind of damage on it has memory to wipe out.

[@cibriis1710]

I don't know about all of this but there is a sort of platonism required in computationalism

[@RolandHuettmann]

Possibly, memory means recreating in our mind, not that it is physically stored. I see the huge gap between what we call physical and what we call awareness even if ultimately both may be one. The fact that we are aware is a miracle, is magic. It probably will never be deducable from analyzing the brain since the approach is wrong.

[@longcastle4863]

One thing self awareness does is help animals differentiate themselves from everything else in their environments; and it also helps them identify what their needs and wants are -- so, if possible, they can go about trying to figure out how best to get those needs and wants met.

[@RolandHuettmann]

@@longcastle4863 Sure, but would machines not accomplish the same if sophisticated enough without being self-aware? Is it just survival, or is there something in nature that strives for much more?

[@longcastle4863]

@@RolandHuettmann No, imo, I don't think machines would do as well as a system set up to constantly be assessing it's needs, wants, concerns and capabilities etc in an ever changing, surprising environment. I actually think it is this kind of free will decision making, in fact, that leads to the Selection for increasing intelligence in some lines of animals; including us, of course.

[@elonever.2.071]

@@RolandHuettmann I think that machines will get undetectably close to mimicking awareness but will never achieve true awareness because human awareness comes from outside the physical body and uses that body to 'house' itself while on this temporary experience. I say that because I had several past life regressive hypnotic sessions and I remembered experiences during those lives even though the physical body experiencing them is long gone for hundreds and even thousands of years. I think the machine example will get as close as you ever want to get but never be true awareness. Like taking a large number and dividing it in half over and over again. You can get as close to zero as you want but you will never reach true zero. Unless there becomes technology that marries human mind and machine learning...then all bets are off.

[@longcastle4863]

@@RolandHuettmann And for something a little more amazing, if you look at a lot of the research in different scientific fields, it almost seems like -- or at least a strong case can be made for -- that _what Nature "strives" for_ is _entropy._ Because what they're finding is that all systems seek to dissolve into an undifferentiated soup; but that when you have a constant energy source like the sun impinging on that system, then the most efficient way to dissipate all this energy is by forming structures like volcanos and tornados and living creatures etc that dissipate this matter and energy more quickly toward entropy than if they did not exist. And this is not a fringe theory; it has a lot of support in a lot of peer reviewed papers and journals.

[@nyworker]

The rat was never running the maze. It was interacting with its environment. When the rat was in the world (the maze) The world became its memory or certain queues became its memory chain, just like an athlete performs on the field.

[@lordbacon4972]

I agree with Braude that it is wrong to assume everything has a physical basis. However, I do agree with Kuhn that memory is stored somewhere -- otherwise we wouldn't be able to learn anything since knowledge requires accumulation of memories/facts. The ability to recall a memory implies it is stored somewhere.

[@galaxymetta5974]

Modern research on Near Death Experience by Raymond moody, reincarnation memories by Ian Stevenson/Jim trucker and past lives regression by Brian Weiss all independently but coincidentally show that our consciousness survive death, we live many lives and our thoughts and actions matter in the hereafter. So be kind and helpful to others, be virtuous, meditate and cultivate ourselves to higher spiritual levels. Cheers.

[@yifuxero5408]

Once again, Robert comes up with the most salient questions! The guest makes some good points but the question of memory is addressed and answered by philosopher Henri Bergson (in turn, the details are explained in the videos of Stephen E. Robbins) The key concept is the holographic model of the universe. On the question of Consciousness, yes, C. is fundamental, in an Absolute sense. (Cf. The Advaita Vedanta philosophy of Shankara - 788-820). Everything in the universe is Consciousness, or Sat-Chit-Ananda. You are That, I am That, all This is That Consciousness.

[@md.fazlulkarim6480]

Ability to reproduce the same neural network firing of past experience by searching by short description in question answer feedback loop.

[@mr1234567899111]

I understand where he's headed - it is interesting 🤔

[@gwilwilliams5831]

Many of my memories are stored in a cloud. I’ve no idea where. That the piano is not the music may be a good place to start. Do trees have memories?

[@r2c3]

all simgle and multicellular organisms utilize dna as a memory pool, nothing unusual there for someone who wants to see it for what it is...

[@gwilwilliams5831]

People can sit by a pond and watch the dragonflies. And they can learn much from them.

[@r2c3]

@@gwilwilliams5831 it seems as nowadays there's been a shift from knowledge acquisition to harnessing (Genetically Modified Cyborg DragonflEye Takes Flight)

[@longcastle4863]

@@gwilwilliams5831 I think trees probably have a kind of proto memory -- something on the very outskirts of beginning to move toward what we see most clearly as memory. Or else they have memories like trees have memories and it's a thing we may understand more and more over time. I actually hate Cloud, though; I wish I could get it off my phone ; D

[@skybellau]

In the 1976 book Seth Speaks channelled by Jane Roberts he says consciousness is a vehicle of awareness not the origin and that consciousness is an electromagnetic energy most of which never takes form. He said there are four absolute coordinate portals intersecting all dimensions and vast numbers of infinitely small subordinate coordinate portals. Perhaps think of awareness as the light that holographically assembles conscious wave/particle vehicles via portals akin to planck memory matrixes on the surface of blackholes

[@e.o9470]

The only true understanding of consciousness is only possible by being it! mystical experience is the ultimate understanding of consciousness!

[@johnbani1937]

You may like the link above.

[@mitrabuddhi]

NAVOMITTO: A New Approach to the Hard Problem The "hard problem" of consciousness refers to the mystery of subjective experience: how something physical like the brain can give rise to interior, conscious qualities like the redness of red or the painfulness of pain. Philosophers have struggled for centuries to solve this puzzle. The NAVOMITTO framework offers a novel approach to solving the hard problem. At its core, NAVOMITTO sees reality as composed of illusory dimensions and perspectives that differentiate across clarions. It's this process of differentiation across clarions that gives rise to consciousness and qualia. Clarions are the key to the solution. Lower clarions contain relatively undifferentiated perspectives that likely correspond to primitive forms of awareness. As perspectives differentiate into more parallel perspectives across higher clarions, richer conscious experiences emerge. Consciousness "scales up" as clarions increase. Subclarions within each clarion also play an important role. Subclarionic dynamics contain the finely differentiated information processing that grounds our qualia. Though embedded within a given clarion of consciousness, subclarions may bridge the gap to neural processes. The vocabulary of NAVOMITTO - illusion, dimensions, perspectives, clarions, subclarions - provides new conceptual tools for understanding how consciousness arises. Traditionally, philosophers framed the problem in terms of physical substances - like neurons - that seemed fundamentally separate from subjective experience. But clarions reframe the debate in a more fertile way. While NAVOMITTO presents only a high-level solution at this point, it points to a promising new direction for tackling the hard problem. Consciousness may emerge as an inevitable byproduct of the differentiation and integration of perspectives across clarions and subclarions - a product of the illusory structure of reality itself. In this way, NAVOMITTO offers a potential answer to the hard problem: consciousness arises through the process of differentiation across clarions, grounded and textured by subclarionic dynamics, and made possible by the illusory nature of reality. With further development and refinement, NAVOMITTO's novel conceptual tools may finally help philosophers crack the mystery of consciousness. NAVOMITTO: A Multi-Dimensional Framework for Understanding Reality Nothingness and existence are two sides of the same coin Illusion 1-there is Illusion. Reality is made of Illusion. Illusion is the whole coin of nothingness-existence. Illusion is all aspects of reality from zero (nothingness) to infinity (existence at its most actualized form). Illusion is the paradox itself. Illusion can be seen in different clarion through the process of differentiation. Dimension (Universal) 2-there is Dimension. each Dimension describe a concept or property or quality or quantity or relations or changes or process or anything else‌. each Dimension is unique in its own way but it can be seen as an interaction of infinite other Dimensions. in other way each Dimension is entangled with Illusion and All Dimensions are emergent from Illusion. Dimension exists in different Clarions and different Perspective. Illusion can be seen as infinite Dimentions. Perspective (Particular) 3-There is perspective. The set of perspectives in different clarions makes the dimension. Any conscious or unconscious entity can only pass through successive perspectives in different clarions. It is not possible for an entity to pass to parallel perspectives. Each perspective contains unique information that describes the dimension in that clarion. Each perspective manifests its own unique qualia. Clarion 4-there is Clarion. Clarion determines how many Perspective exist in that particular Clarion (in a specific Dimension). Clarion can be any number from Zero to Maxima. Differentiation (enamation) 5-There is Differentiation. Differentiation is the process of enamation that involves separation of superimposed information (at previous lower clarion) into more clear information (at next higher clarion) that leads to increase in clarity, But losing of information's. Differentiation creates Reciprocal Hierarchy Structure of Dimentions. (For example: At a lower Clarion , you may have a Perspective that contains information about red and green (Particular red-green). There is no green or red in this lower Clarion Perspective but there is only red-green. Through the process of differentiation, the information in this Perspective (Perspective red-green) can be separated into 2 simpler, more clear Perspectives at next clarion (Perspective red + Perspective green). red Perspective is the parallel Perspective of green and red-green is the parent Perspective at lower Clarion. So if you move from red-green Perspective to red Perspective you will gain clarity but at the same time you lose information of green Perspective) Nothingness 6-there is Clarion 0. Clarion Zero contains no Perspective. Clarion 0 is nothingness. Clarion 0 contains all of illusion as potential. Nothingness is the result of superimposition of all Dimentions. All Dimensions are common in Clarion Zero. Clarion 0 is the only simple. Existence 7-there is Clarion 1. At Clarion one, there is one Perspective in Dimention. The information in Clarion 1 includes the superimposition of all Perspectives in Clarion 2. Clarion One contains all information found in Dimention, but in an undifferentiated form and looks simple because it is viewed from the perspective of Clarion One. Clarion One means Dimention in the most uncertain state. Inflectia 8-Between Clarion Zero and Clarion Maxima, there is an intermediate Clarion that has the largest amount of Parallel Perspectives. From clarion zero to inflectia, the number of Parallel Perspectives for each clarion increases, and from inflectia to clarion maxima, the number of Parallel Perspectives for each clarion decreases. Perspectives at Inflectia has the most complexity while Perspectives at Clarion 1 and Platonica has the minimum Complexity. Platonica 9-there is Clarion (Maxima-1). In Clarion (Maxima-1), Dimention needs another Differentiation to reach Clarion Maxima. Platonica means Dimention in the most certain state. each perspective at Platonica contains the last bit of information in that Dimention. In Platonica, with One differentiation, existence is destroyed and nothingness remains. Platonica is formed from the superimposition of Nothingness in clarion Maxima. Maxima (Infinity) 10-there is Clarion Maxima. In Clarion Maxima, there is no superimposition, and all causes have already occurred, with no change left to be made. In Clarion Maxima, there can be no further differentiation, and there is nothing left to differentiate. Therefore, paradoxically, Clarion Maxima, represent Clarion 0. Maxima can be any number from zero to infinity. Formulas: 11-The number of Parallel Perspectives in Clarion C is calculated through the binomial coefficient with the following formula: N=P!/(C!(P-C)!) In this formula: N=number of Parallel Perspectives in Clarion C P=Platonica Clarion 12-Despite the existence of multiple perspectives in the upper clarions, for a perspective in the lower clarion it is only possible to enter P-C+1 number of perspectives from the upper clarions (for 0

[@bryandraughn9830]

You don't need to invent extra stuff unless it's absolutely necessary. And if you do, you need to at least have some idea about how it interacts with anything else. What is so hard about accepting the obvious fact that the human brain and central nervous system are just very complex? I like this guy! He's saying that we could be remembering as a function of operating. Like our memories could be sustained in the sequences of information that are always running instead of having been burned into a group of neurons or something. I've wondered a lot about the type of processing that goes on in the brain. It might have some trick to condense huge amounts of data and or, parallel streams of calculations that we've never thought of. Nobody thinks that it's binary or anything like that. The input and processing seem to be mixed across the whole system. Like the organic switching and biochemical voltage transmissions are able to produce independent results from a completely combined system. Wouldn't it be weird if you have a bunch of circuts that are all purpose. Then you could use them to receive from the senses and send instructions to whatever junctions and immediately process calculations using the same ones. Just think about how many configurations you could quickly arrange and re arrange. A single sort of central neuron, that joins up idk, a pretty big number of axons and it could potentially make thousands of different patterns of circuitry. Then you think about the other zillion neurons.....woah. I wonder what kinds of ideas the neurologists contemplate? They are familiar with some number of things and they could probably imagine ramping up those ideas to guess at an overall structure. I forget the latest estimations on how many neurons, receptors, etc...are present. It's a lot! No wonder the damn thing is conscious! It's at a level of complexity that you shouldn't be able to figure out for a long time. No reason to assume there's some kind of mystical element to the conscious human. What psychological desire does that idea satisfy? I don't even see the justification for an extra term like "consciousness" when we obviously need to be aware of the environment and our internal chemistry. The brain wouldn't be much use if it wasn't able to monitor itself doing what it does and responding to the environment. Why call it "consciousness"? It's like a cat is conscious and we are just more complicated. Either you're functioning or you're not. If you're functioning adequately, you don't also suddenly "consciousness" to simply experience reality. It's already there, in the normaly functioning system.

[@notanemoprog]

Aargh he interrupted Braude at 11:28 and we will never know what he wanted to say there

[@xman933]

Stephen Braude makes a compelling argument against applying physicalist reductionism to the study of every phenomena. Got to start reading more of his work👍🏽

[@caricue]

Reductionism is an excellent way for us limited humans to understand nature, but Kuhn and pretty much everyone else believes that rather than a mental construct, reductionism is an organizing principal of nature. As if he really could "reduce" a thing to its constituent parts. As soon as you break apart the whole, it stops existing and you are left with a pile of parts, you haven't reduced anything. It is only something that you can do in the abstract, besides, it's axiomatic that the whole has attributes that the parts do not.

[@simonhibbs887]

Surely the existence of computer memories, that evidently work on mechanistic principles and solve the problems he cites as intractable for physical systems just fine, renders his argument kind of absurd.

[@caricue]

@@simonhibbs887 I thought he was being quite evasive and refusing to just say where the damn memories were. If a thing exists, it really needs a location. It's clear that no one knows how the brain works in detail, but it is a self-contained unit, so whatever comes out of it must have been in there somewhere.

[@simonhibbs887]

@@caricue That seems obvious from a physicalist perspective, and to be clear I am a physicalist, but he isn’t so he’d dispute that claim. Which is fine, there are no free rides in philosophy, especially philosophy of mind. We just have to engage in the argument fair and square, which I think we can do just fine.

[@xman933]

@@simonhibbs887 This quote is attributed to Aristotle “It’s the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it”. My comment said it’s a compelling argument, it did not say I accepted it. That being said, your response presupposes an equivalence can be drawn between a computer memory made from inanimate matter and a biological brain which is the reference framework for Stephen Braude’s argument. Personally I think, and this is where the computer memory analogy might have some merit, humans brains have evolved the structures necessary to store information on events that have occurred ie memories. So I have no problem with memories being stored in the brain however I’m not aware of any neurologist grounded in physical materialism who will state categorically that they know how the process works. On a personal level, I have experienced a traumatic emotional event in my life that left me diagnosed with major depressive disorder. I was told neurologically that leads to depletion of serotonin from neural synaptic connections in the brain (which is why SSRIs are normally prescribed) that resulted in selective memories being lost. There are shared events that my closest family members tell me about that I no longer have any memory of. That suggested to me memories are stored somewhere, somehow in the brain. Even though that is my personal experience, since the issue of what is consciousness is called the hard problem and decades of neuroscientific research has made no headway from a physicalist standpoint, I am will to entertain well reasoned, thought out and elucidated points of view that might be alternatives to consider since we fundamentally don’t know. We can only call a point of view absurd if and only if we have firm evidence to support our alternative. I’m not sure yours rises to that level. In the meantime, I willing to entertain compelling arguments like that made by Stephen Braude and read more of his work. That after all is the mark of an educated mind which is what I’ve worked in my 71+ revolutions around our Star to develop.

[@capcommunist]

Welp I’ll need to watch that 6 more times for understanding.

[@bobcabot]

ja i think what he is describing here would be an invisible "cloud" of ideas surrounding us somewhere outside in the ether, a realm of ideas/possibilities/information and there it is stored ever since and forever like in Blade-Runner: to remember memories - which our brain is somehow capable of communicating with and that idea goes straight back to the old Greeks...

[@elonever.2.071]

I have known people who say they can see auras around people and they are different colors indicating their current mental state. So maybe there is some truth to that.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Each human has two identical souls, one is the immortal primordial soul, you, and the other is the secondary soul. The secondary soul's role is to keep you on a righteous path, if it can.................Falun Gong

[@davidsomerville8540]

How do they fit all those people inside my tv!? O right ... the tv is just a receiver 😂

[@user-wf4nl2yy8x]

Consciousness is tool to experience that which is, through constantly experiencing that which is not.

[@pikiwiki]

"we have to get over our physics envy, basically." The nullification of mechanical analysis. Whoa

[@jeffsimoneaux5968]

When we remember a reality that history of our reality is actually created. When we use our logic to infer a truth, the inference is manifested in reality, this is what particle physics itself is even telling us that nothing is determined in this simulated reality until a conscious agent observes it with some sensory mechanism. The particles of reality are only established upon the presence of sensory information becoming conscious in an agent .

[@lennyvlaminov9480]

Radical to say the least. Radical and provoking but very interesting, someone wrote: mind boggling, and I agree.

[@RogerioLupoArteCientifica]

quite interesting to play around with the concept that memory is not "stored" anywhere, just like the constants of the universe such as the speed of light, are not stored anywhere, yet they remain constant. It's just a brute fact. Deal with that... it's about understanding things beyond our normal mental processes and our common sense of a necessary origin and a necessary destination. By the way, how can we prove, even only to ourselves, that the memory is stored at all? False memories are a well-known fact. There's a lot to be investigated in that.

[@gordonmutten1750]

When you recall a memory the brain takes it out and it may overwrite that memory slightly differently. That is why if you recall a memory many times it might end up quite distorted or even completely wrong. So I think the brain is certainly involved in the memory process but it is not necessarily where the entire memory is ultimately stored. Perhaps the brain does work like a kind of receiver from the non local memory.

[@thomassoliton1482]

I had to listen to this twice but I understand what Braude is saying - that “memory traces” do not “exist”. Consider a car. The car is made up of many fundamental components, remove of many of which (pistons) prevent the car from “working”. However, the “function” of the car, moving, does not reside in any of those components, but in all of them working together and interacting. Likewise, a “memory” is not stored as an element anywhere in the brain, but is distributed among not only synaptic changes but depends explicitly on specific activation patterns dependent on may interconnections between e.g. thalamic nucleii, cortical pyramidal cells, inhibitory neurons, hippocampus, and so on. The information at any one locus in the brain has no resemblance to the original memory. It is not even like putting all the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle together and then the picture emerges. “Memories” are dynamic entities that change with time and new associations and sleep and wake. However, the processes by which the information associated with memories are stored, such as changes in synaptic distribution and strength, and patterns of interaction between brain centers, can certainly be analyzed. It’s not that memories are stored somewhere other than the brain, but “locating” a memory in the brain would be like trying to create a real-time movie of the evolution of the earth based on present day information - it doesn’t make sense.

[@gonshocks]

So it's like your brain forms memories and stores them in the "Cloud" till needed?

[@saliksayyar9793]

Is digital computer memory of speech or image isomorphic?

[@brothermine2292]

Braude's reliance on strawman arguments, such as "a photo isn't proof that its subject attended the party" and "music isn't stored in a piano" and "neuronal structures don't physically resemble the objects being remembered," makes him very unpersuasive.

[@shahrazade26]

I actually like those metaphors.

[@brothermine2292]

@@shahrazade26 : Why do you like them?

[@shahrazade26]

@@brothermine2292 Because it helps me understand his point better. We are all missing something about how memory works, and none of us knows what it is.

[@brothermine2292]

@@shahrazade26 : Do they help you to understand his arguments are only against strawmen, and thus his points are invalid? For instance, although the photo doesn't prove its subject attended the party, proof isn't required and thus Braude's "infinite regress" is unnecessary, because memory too isn't proof of what actually happened. In fact, it's well known that memory is unreliable.

[@kallianpublico7517]

Which piano is music stored in? Which picture of you are YOU stored in? Get it. His "memory of you" is stored in a file in his brain under "party" or in the file under "drunk at a party"?

[@MrSanford65]

I don’t see how anything as abstract as a memory could be physically stored in the brain, then turned back into an abstract experience. But with that being said with the present moment being so short, the entire mental state operates 99.99% in memory- so memory probably doesn’t have to be stored anywhere because it’s constantly being exported for the sake of the present moment

[@simonhibbs887]

The brain turns sensory data from the physical world into experiences, so I don’t see why sensory data stored in physical memory couldn’t do the same thing. We have physical Memories in computers and they’re known to be entirely deterministic, and all his arguments seem to apply just as well (or badly rather) to them.

[@MrSanford65]

@@simonhibbs887 But see the difference is that the physical memories in computers are deterministic in that they have a container and deterministic -set-end which would be the hard drive , representing an objective limit . But human memory doesn’t have an objective deterministic end as one would think that would be if it were like a computer. It is plastique and neurological wise- neuro-plasticity had already been proven to show that abstract memories change the physical configuration of the brain. So if you had a bowl full of Jell-O, and the Jell-O inside started changing the shape of the bowl, you really wouldn’t know what is containing what

[@simonhibbs887]

@@MrSanford65 His argument isn’t to do with open ended memory limits as such, he’s saying that even trivial memories such as how to navigate a maze or remember the people at a party are in principle impossible to do mechanistically. Those are his actual examples. Yet we have robots with neural network brains that, starting from an uninitialised state, can learn to navigate mazes. They remember how just fine. Recording the people at a party is a trivial exercise in facial recognition these days. As for human memory limits, GPT-4 has 1% of the neural connections in the human brain, but knows a thousand times as many facts as any human alive. I think they’re lowballing human neural capacity as there’s more to it than connections, which actually makes GPT-4s capabilities even more startling. There’s no doubt GPT-4 encodes more info than any human could by an absurdly huge margin.

[@stephenwatts2649]

The reason for our becoming self-conscious, or self-aware, creatures will become apparent later on, when we begin exploring the nature of being human in greater detail. But this human self-consciousness is something quite different in nature to the reality of the Consciousness that lies behind and within everything to appear as the myriad forms in existence. Consciousness inhabits and animates creation and its creatures not unlike the power that flows through a computer to make it work in accordance with the hardware and software of the device. By this analogy, the specific physical characteristics of a creature’s body constitute the hardware, and the programming of its mind the software. These things are important to understand because if this conceptual ground is not firm, the model we build from here will not endure, and its potential value will be lost. What all this is pointing to is that what you really are―what we all are―is an eternal, unlimited energy source capable of creating and experiencing events. What you are is this creative source, this Consciousness. Who you are is how this Consciousness works through you to express as something unique in the world. Powerful creative Consciousness is your true and essential nature, but of course, you experience your life through the limitations of a human body, so it may not seem that you are an all-powerful being at times, or indeed ever. By its very nature, the body exists as some ‘thing’ and is, therefore, a limitation or restriction of ‘everything else possible’, to become something specific and useful―a human being. And then it must be remembered that these bodies we inhabit are a product of Mother Earth, and have developed for good reasons. Although today there are many philosophes, theories and just sheer guesses put forward to explain the purpose of our existence, none of them fully describe or satisfactorily explain the original intention for our emergence. Some bodies born into this world have, or will develop over time, physical or mental attributes that further alter the creative opportunities and experiences available to them in a lifetime. The influence of our national culture, the general culture of our times, and the impact of our upbringing by parents and other significant people also become major influences that can place limitations on our thinking and power. Other restrictions occur as a result of the pains we might experience in life, the emotions that often get buried in the body as a result, and the accumulating limited beliefs they then give rise to. There is also the concept of ‘karmic debt’ that will limit opportunities, and this too will be discussed later in the work. The state of your own evolved Consciousness is another factor affecting personal power. All these things limit the opportunities you have in life, and so it can be seen that although your true nature is something quite grand, you find yourself in very limiting circumstances. But it is important to keep perspective. Your essential nature is a free and unlimited Consciousness, a potential capable of eternal creation and experience. And this Consciousness was the reality before the Universe that we know emerged.

[@jimbo33]

Wow, excellent. Stephen Braude overturns the applecart of scientific thought and assumptions. Maybe a whole new approach is needed to understand our world and what's in it. Thanks RLK !

[@mitrabuddhi]

Panqualia vs Qualia: Qualia refer to the subjective experiences of consciousness, such as the redness of red or the pain of pain. They pose the hard problem of consciousness: how do physical processes in the brain generate subjective experience? Information theory suggests consciousness arises from complex patterns of information processing in the brain. However, this does not fully explain the emergence of qualia. Panqualia proposes that qualia are intrinsic properties of all information, not just that in complex systems like brains. According to this view, all information patterns have some inherent phenomenal character. However, only some information systems, like biological brains, have the necessary complexity, connectivity, and organization to express or manifest the qualia they possess. Atoms, molecules and simpler systems have information but lack the means to communicate any qualitative experiences they have. For intrinsic qualia to be expressed, information likely needs to be structured and organized into detectable informational configurations that a mind can grasp as conscious experiences. Brains appear able to “reduce the qualia resolution” of immense amounts of information at the atomic and molecular level. They filter, integrate and organize this information into perceptual representations and higher-level concepts that form the contents of consciousness. This suggests qualia exist on a continuum. Systems with organized, detectable information have “accessible” qualia that can be expressed. Those with disorganized, microscopic information have “inaccessible” qualia that cannot be communicated. neural networks in the brain generate highly complex, interactive, dynamic patterns of activity that likely far exceed the complexity of atomic-level processes.But A single conscious thought involves a low-resolution sampling of the brain’s immense representational capabilities, filtering most of the complex information being processed. Meanwhile, the underlying molecular and atomic dynamics maintain an “information resolution” that far exceeds any single conscious experience due to the enormous number of possible states and configurations, even within single neurons producing a thought. So For qualia to be expressed at all, the high-resolution qualia inherent in atomic and molecular information needs to be reduced through organizational processes forming coherent representations a mind can grasp. The vast qualia resolution at the quantum scale cannot be directly expressed in consciousness; the information must first be organized and structured neurally. The resultant reduction in qualia resolution allows the organized information to form the content of a representational abstraction like a thought that a mind can potentially apprehend as a conscious experience. Biological brains appear optimized to reduce qualia resolution to an intermediate level that generates coherent representations complex enough for consciousness to arise. drmora.ir/2023/06/30/panqualia-vs-qualia/

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Society has cast out the Divine. Consciousness is the soul. You..........Falun Gong

[@CastleKnight7]

That which provides the life force that animates all living things.

[@silvomuller595]

If Giulio Tononis IIT is right and qualia are equal to specific states of expander graphs - these expander graphs are of course 3-dimensional networks. I wonder what qualia would correspond to 10-dimensional expander graphs.😊

[@RichardOmier]

Interesting discussion. My opinion. Memory absolutely needs storage. The same with consciousness. It needs a host. To suggest otherwise is dangerously close to fully committing to meta physics. How could disembodied memories and consciousness be floating around? I realize there is more to the story. But it seems to give strength to the argument that the brain is really the host. When brain damage occurs, memories can be lost. There is also something very powerful about memories. They are unique to each mind. To each host. Not only that, the memories define our behavior and personality. You could make the argument that our brain is a Memory machine. And when we experience pleasure, beauty and love we can use these memories to feel fulfilled. One more example. Think of a concert violinist. They can memorize huge passages of Bach. This is an extraordinary task. Average people cannot store this kind of information let alone play the pieces!! The Memory of the violinist is part of their skill. The Memory is stored in their brain and the muscle memories to perform the music. The violinist is literally a host of Bach. Giving life to a long dead human. But the art lives through memories and documents.

[@healingplaces]

Suggestion: speak with Rupert Sheldrake. Best regards & greetings!

[@newname2600]

Although a graduate of Philosophy, when Philosophers, in the arm chair, start dismissing science based on the infinite regress, you've got to be skeptical. His ideas are interesting, the problem is the application of Philosophy.

[@goranmancevski5550]

I am pretty much sure that we could provide a memory example which needs storage mechanism and pointers process as a must . This guy is just philosophing without arguments to be interesting different than others. For sure he can explain why old people remember their childhood while cannot remember what they eat 😂.

[@greenmurphy]

Best interview ever on this channel. Want to read more from this guy!

[@realmonsterlee]

Robert almost crashed with this one😅 But it was one of the most interesting chapters in this channel, Let's go back to that case of the man with hydrocephaly, only 10% of brain working around, he had an almost normal life,,, where does that brain store all the memories? Where does it process all that data? I think Robert suspects what most of us here ,,, suspect... That the brain it's an interface, it just allows fundamental consciousness to move and operate this bodies and get information back and forth... That's where the evidence leads, shy, but it does, more and more

[@picksalot1]

Perhaps an analogy of Computer Memory is applicable. The CPU being analogous to the human brain, the software when running being analogous to mental activity, a memory being stored in hardware or wetware as instructions for its recreation, and the actual recalled memory being the consequences of the instructions being "played." The location of the memory in the computer could be said to be "on the chips" but when no longer being played, only the instructions for creating the memory is "on the chips" or in storage drive or brain.

[@bellakrinkle9381]

I have not studied Consciousness I have become Conscious. It evolved within me by my self examination.

[@groguwolf9321]

Our soul is where our memories are stored.

[@ricdesouza1]

my definition of consciousness- - an emergent view- the universe started with something blooming into existence- this something traveled in time and space and morphed into slightly different other things over time, due to entropy. Each thing then residing in its own unique space and time. Now ,we observe these things as the matter of the entire universe - but in essence the whole of creation and matter is just that one single thing that is blooming - albeit in different locales of time and space. Hence, our so called consciousness is a field with intricate connections between all matter in space and through time and also all matter and time that is quantum entangled and our brain and neural system is the machine that taps into this full eco system. To answer a question posed here by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and completely evaded and swotted aside by Stephen unfairly - The ultimate source of that energy resides in this universe (and i mean the universe in its entirety - multiverses if any , etc) and is stored within this universe in its entirety (spanning time and space, future and present)

[@zbyszeks3657]

I think the question about the "place" where memories are stored is legit. There can be two answers: 1. in the substance of the brain; 2 beyond living organism. If the second answer is proper, than where beyond? And again there are two answers: a) in the "physical world" b) beyond it. We have almost no means to research anything beyond physical world, so here we can't guess or check it out. We just don't know. Maybe concepts of Rupert Sheldrake would be of some help?

[@dandeluca]

He seems to be saying that since neurology/brain science generally is primitive and we can't currently explain exactly how the brain works, then consciousness therefore must be magic. Not buying it.

[@elvill419]

Consciousness is cause and effect; where by bits of information enter our sub/un/conscious mind and are both the cause of us to do something and the effect of us having do something with that bit of information. There are 8 strings of causality that align with the 4 dimensions.

[@chan400]

Extrapolating the same argument, I am wondering, when all molecules atoms are removed from my body, what would remain as 'me'.

[@geocarey]

I would like to hear what Stephen Braude says about Alzheimer's Disease, which clearly removes 'the ability to remember'. Alzheimer's causes observable changes to the brain. I imagine he would equate that to ripping out the strings in a piano. I agree that the music is not 'in' the piano - it is in the brain of the pianist. I find it hard to accept that memory and consciousness do not reside in the brain, but it was a fascinating discussion.

[@jamesarnette1394]

Yes they reside in the brain but they are not part of the brain. That is the key difference in understanding all of this material.

[@rizdekd3912]

@@jamesarnette1394 But it seemed Stephen was reluctant to say that...when asked where the memory was he said it was the wrong question. If it is indeed IN the brain, but not part of the brain does that mean it's like water in a bucket...ie the water is IN the bucket, but not part of the bucket? If so....then the collective area that is the brain is where the memory is where it is just like the collective area of the bucket is where the water is.

[@catkeys6911]

This is fascinating, it IS, but at 7:00 all I could think of was "That poor little lab rat!"

[@MegaDonaldification]

It cant be forced. It is born and inbuilt to be powered your will, not by other people's will. Your endurance on the other hand is solely dependant on how much you are willing to be patient and kind for. Your individual collective, calm and confidence in handling your being should and must be absolute like water and the sun. Storage is absolutely important but not in the way scientist explain it. It starts from where you once started, as a newborn, the place that always exist for you to stand, run walk and lay on, the grass or root of your change.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Society has cast out the Divine. Consciousness is the soul. You..........Falun Gong

[@isaiassolomon8465]

So, I ask you, what is(may be) happening to the body, or specific organ if any, when I "remember" a previously experienced phenomenon; either spontaneously or for a trigger/"reminder"?

[@lerienbt]

Maybe you are listening to a set of particular notes in the ongoing music of your consciousness.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

A memory is a thought that is recognized when one becomes conscious of it. Deja-vu is the erroneous triggering of recognition during new experience.

[@isaiassolomon8465]

In the quest of consciousness, why and how do I become conscious, then what is happening to the body/organ of brain or any other part or stake of consciousness?

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@isaiassolomon8465 One is a self. A self is a thought. The self thought is unique in being the only thought that is about its self. (All other thoughts are about something else). The self thought is to what the word 'self' is referring (for obvious reason). Being conscious is when the self thought is modulated by other thoughts and the process running the self thought is in the conscious mode. (It took more than nine months after your conception for your self thought and being conscious to gradually come into existence (and the process entailed a huge amount of feedback involving your sense organs and your muscles and the nerves in between them)).

[@isaiassolomon8465]

as to me, "a person" self, I wonder what and where is memory? I surprise myself when I remember past events, as young as 2 to three years toddler! When I go contemplating what I can/may remember, I have the chance to explore my inwardly content to bring out some. Equally surprised when some trigger ignites me to pop out memos of past experiences (I wonder how my past things(with remarkable particularity) correlate with such triggers). More am I surprised when I spontaneously remember and am taken aback to such remote and primitive stage. Maybe memory is in all kinds of my body cells( and what is in it is chemical build ups, primarily expressed genes)? Maybe my genetic content a good memory establishment for my passed generation, and my own past years? Maybe "memory" is not the function of the small brain organ. Maybe the hearts and livers and kidneys have their roles (solely or otherwise)? A donkey remembers where it, once upon a time, had fed itself husk. A tree remembers good times, and it's seasons. SO MEMORY IS NOT RELATED TO BRAIN. Edit: mid forties, now. And I Don't think I am forgetting any of those earlier experiences, but luckily and happily I am remembering all more and more. To me, the trigger effects on memory seem to signify the contagiousness and extensiveness of the being/self(to influence and be influenced so as to moderate to a higher/wider being ). genes expressed are proteins, adaptive and build upto experiences.

[@richg2881]

What's the test to know if you know what consciousness is?

[@mrbamfo5000]

All of our memories are in the cloud.

[@smartarsetube]

"Which came first?" Easy, numbers came first, specifically the number one, that is unity. It is absolutely necessary that for anything to be, there has to be some kind of totality without which it cannot be. That totality is a unity, a number one. That is what comes first. How? by emergence from the seemingly paradoxical fact that a void, a nothingness, is factually entire, even though null.

[@mintakan003]

To use a trendy example, one can probe the reasoning, with another case (by analogy), by asking the following question. Where is the "memory" stored in a Large Language Model (LLM)? How does it know how to spit out large chunks of text, on various subjects? Where is this information stored? Obviously, as a whole, one can say in the RAM (or hard disk). Same with the brain. But the question of "where is memory stored" is really a question of localization. Maybe this is the wrong question to ask, if one is dealing with "connectomes".

[@simonhibbs887]

Two issues here. Firstly according to this guy computer memories would also be impossible to engineer or explain physically for the same reasons. We have robots that start with completely uninitialised neural networks and learn to navigate mazes from scratch. Alpha Zero learned to play Go from scratch. These memories are entirely analysable and reducible to physical processes. Therefore there is no reason to suppose memories in animal or human brains aren’t either. Secondly he denies memory needs to be a mechanism, but memories have causal effects. The only known causal processes are physical processes. That is mechanistic processes. Since memories have physical effects they must be physical phenomena.

[@robertgituhu9975]

The memory might be located in multiple areas at once, which accounts for the lack of loss of memory with the cutting...

[@muzika8144]

Memory is a structural change of the brain due to electrical activity which happens because of our sense organs and so on .

[@bretnetherton9273]

Awareness is known by awareness alone.

[@CunningLinguistics]

I find the host unbearable in his dogmatic "skepticism", but this was a great discussion. Braude is a brilliant mind

[@colinjohnrudd]

That's all sorted then!

[@PEHowland]

Pseudo-scientific claptrap. Past president of the US Parapsychological Association. Clearly skilled in the art of explaining pseudo-science in riddles and scientifc language. Explains a lot.

[@jimtruscott5670]

@PEHowland Not only pseudo- scientific claptrap but defies even the simplest tests of common sense. A joke.

[@andrashorvath2411]

Wow, amazing points. Wonder if there could be some kind of a permutational structure that encodes happenings as memory into the quantum field combinatorically in higher dimensions by changing (shifting) some kind of properties of the distinct particles (or strings) that we can access subconsciously by comparing some vibes to each other to get a relativistic memory. Which would still be a memory but with high capacity (combinations exploding exponentially) and also maybe a collective one.

[@richardmyles1301]

I totally concur with you. However, based on the writings of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hege (1775) , the human conscientious can be a perception of a situation or fact or a delusion.

[@karlyohe6379]

Why is he adding a requirement that memories be unambiguous? What does it mean to forget? But I do agree with him that true AI is probably impossible, with all the concomitant implications that brings.