Stephen Sondheim on Leonard Bernstein - 1998

Stephen Sondheim interviewed for PBS' American Masters series, for the documentary "Leonard Bernstein: Reaching for the Note". Directed by Susan Lacy. Recorded on February 26th, 1998.
Uploaded for my playlist "Sondheim Talks".
www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmast...

[@OriginalCaliKitty]

I just love hearing Sondheim talk - so erudite and yet so grounded - and I always learn a lot from what he says.

[@kittykate314]

Agreed.

[@sarahjones-jf4pr]

@OriginalCaliKitty Absolutely, and also he seemed not to suffer fools but was modest, also like his freind Maestro Bernstein he had an extremely articulate wonderful sensitive persona.

[@petewilliams4965]

Think of how lucky we are to have access to this history...

[@mattyice782]

I could listen to him talk for a million hours. Incredibly interesting.

[@jannadav1604]

same

[@shayvi11]

This is a treasure. Thank you.

[@carmencollor1224]

This is brilliant in so many levels! Rather a master class, than an interview. Genius. And the glimpse of a very interesting human being, too. ❤

[@subplantant]

You can learn everything you need to know about lyric writing from this man.

[@DavidN369]

Word.

[@lindakahler4799]

Love the clarity of his process

[@tiffsaver]

What would West Side Story have been without this genius?

[@donnyg6595]

Cant get enough Sondheim!

[@JK-vr8ko]

Put this one in a time capsule--he was the best

[@linglingsapprentice7762]

Still is. Still is.

[@simonjjn]

Fascinating and brilliant this is indeed. What a joy to listen to. God bless Sondheim and Bernstein. S x

[@mjcruiser4238]

This is the kind of stuff that should have been incorporated into Maestro

[@DavidN369]

Bingo.

[@mjcruiser4238]

@@DavidN369would have been a lot more interesting than a two hour and nine minute Marlboro commercial

[@DavidN369]

@mjcruiser4238 A very stylish, well acted one, to be sure, but, yeah. It was, at best, an etude on a subject that demanded symphony, or at least, concerto treatment.

[@meveevem1001]

Yes!!

[@Jeo-fq1zw]

I wasn't impressed with the movie..I was hoping for more insight...not his recreational activities....nothing wrong, but not so introspective.

[@quichenovel]

Bless you for posting this.

[@sageone5344]

I suggest you retitle this interview to indicate that it's very much about West Side Story in general as much or more than about Leonard Bernstein

[@GeorgeDole]

Many thanks for this Sondheim interview. PLEASE DO MORE interviews of Broadway, Off. Off-Off Broadway, notables of any profession, song and lyric composers, actors, producers, critics, or anyone. Check tin pan alley composer and lyrisist Bob Dahdah. I just Google searched Bob Dahdah, who died 1n 2016 aged 89. He did many radio interviews with notable New York theater personalities for either WNYC or a NYC public cable station for years. I'm in Moscow now but Bob was a longtime friend from 1987 on. I will return to NJ in July 2024 after school ends where I teach English and computer science. He directed "Dames at Sea" at the famous "grandtather" of Off Brodway theater, Cafe Cino.

[@karencoates2487]

Thank you for this!!

[@luvlivefoods]

There’s an edge to his thoughts on Bernstein. He sounds critical of Bernstein’s genius and is very measured with any praise he fives him.I have it think there is a backstory to their relationship.

[@dianecristina3319]

Could very well be but when meet him at a bookstore I worked,I didn't know who is was till I saw his picture when he died, he was very insistent in precision and quickness in answer to common questions like where are you from?Inpatient to get answers I let it go as he was waiting for someone he knew who was a co-worker.If I wasn't at work w/him as a customer I would have stopped short his overly honing down questions.

[@dianecristina3319]

Disagree on one hand,one heart.I sang that at Lincoln Center w/ a chorus.The line Now we begin,now we start is not bloodless in the sense that it is erudite to ethereal which are contained in the mind,body and soul.True love is complex more than emotions.Somewhere imo is similiar. P.S.the rape which was done in a stylized manner was disgusting b/c it was so far from violence against women.Made in the 60s it was seen differently; rape culture wasn't a thing then.

[@billyb7465]

@@dianecristina3319 Are you referring to Sondheim or Bernstein?

[@dianecristina3319]

@@billyb7465 Sondheim who I met.

[@user-sb1kl8dh6h]

He had a bit of a difference of opinion when it came to lyrics for WSS. Sondheim wanted to make them sound like the street kids they were, Bernstein wanted them to be romantic and poetic. I don’t think Sondheim considers WSS to be his own best work.

[@geraldineclarke5434]

Oh, I miss him.....

[@crwdfwtx]

This interview is a vast treasure trove of insight. I just want to know, when he talks about Lenny’s Serenade (the first three movements) what his objection was to the other two. Too jazzy and musical I guess. But he singled them out, those first three.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Stephen was such a mensch and his music will live on. Interesting to hear his honest and candid views about working with Bernstein.

[@isabellas.c.scanderbeg2670]

A wonderful interview with Stephen Sondheim, and his collaboration and rivalry with Leonard Bernstein. It doesn’t matter! 😆 They were co-authors and protagonists of the best Modern American Music and creations of Masterpieces of their time. Outstanding Authors in Lyrics and Music forever ✨

[@lisanoele7996]

This man is THE master of lyrics. AND music!

[@ransomcoates546]

Given the aesthetic he describes as admirable in musical lyrics you can see why he said he intensely disliked opera ( not written in Sanskrit).

[@ssehe2007]

No doubt about it! The violin serenade!

[@TheChaunceHaydenShow]

Pure genius

[@barbaracard6254]

I love this man.

[@treesny]

So happy to hear Sondheim say he "loved Richard Wilbur's lyrics" for Candide! 🙂

[@ajbb624]

Sondheim AND Bernstein! Really?! Please come with me!! 😊 love you!! 💜

[@ajbb624]

Check out this interview!! Amazing!!

[@ajbb624]

I can't believe I actually understand him!!!

[@ajbb624]

The"purpleness" of the lyrices!!?

[@reelincoln7747]

Don’t forget Laurents

[@enchanter5]

I think he is totally wrong about "America". It's a fabulous song, and I understood all of it.

[@ajbb624]

Lady, this ALL appeals to me! You too, I hope!!

[@stephenhall3515]

This is actually beautiful.

[@faithallen1169]

Sounded like in the early years they all had such fun playing games, making movies etc. I think Bernstein's kids ( they are all quite grown) might know where the lucite maze is stored.

[@amandawhiteley6737]

Lenny was simply passionate about his work, the reckon he was abit of a swine to work for because he wanted 100 percent in fact more than....!! He wanted it all, giving it all breathing it all, raw performance. And they DELIVERED. Eventually take after take after take.....finally! He was perfectionist but theres a little of that in all of us!

[@q-tuber7034]

I hear what Sondheim is saying about “There’s a place for us” having a problematic melody line, but in the end it is ok, the rhythm and orchestration solve the problem: “There’s a” is lead-in to a downbeat, and the full texture with bass enters there at “place”

[@sportsmediaamerica]

"Everything free in America..." It's been true since 1956!

[@frankcheers7529]

I don't usually disagree with Sondheim, but I disagree with his assessment of Bernstein's Mass. Mass is wonderful and is aging better. Given the context of the time Mass was composed and first presented, putting it wholly in Latin would've missed the whole point of the piece. It would've been esoteric. It's a very soulful piece

[@mjcruiser4238]

Then why even make the movie? It’s his musical genius that made him special -scenes of these two collaborating would have been of great interest to those of us interested in his musical life!

[@reelincoln7747]

Laurents, Sondheim, Robbins and of course Lenny It was male Gay Side Story for real

[@johnmiller1620]

The subtitles need editing--it's not "candied" but "Candide", another show of Bernstein's. There are a lot of mistakes of this sort.

[@themusicalspeakeasy2439]

yes, unfortunately so - the captions have been lifted directly from the original video's transcript on PBS' website, which seems to have been automatically generated or at least done in a crunch/by somebody unfamiliar with the subject matter

[@malp1]

Great interview, but the transcription is terrible :-(

[@themoose70]

The "a" song 🤣- imagine telling Bernstein - your melodies are not good for lyrics.

[@dondrewecki1909]

Too bad the captions have been so badly botched.

[@user-lm1wu6oq6h]

REALLY poor subtitles distracted from a very interesting interview.

[@bkkershner]

I found it both unfortunate and surprising how little the interviewer knew about the process of writing music and writing music and words. Poor Sondheim, having to deal with that.

[@Twentythousandlps]

I find it fortunate, because Sondheim explained what he meant very clearly to the general listener.

[@themusicalspeakeasy2439]

it seems like he was unusually charged, if not just about irate, from the jump with this interview. i wonder what it was that made him so tense.

[@willcwhite]

I didn’t think Sondheim was particularly ornery in this interview. I’ve seen him much crankier. As for the interviewer, don’t forget that this conversation was being filmed for a documentary (American Masters: Reaching for the Note) so her goal was to get Sondheim talking about the process so that she would have as much material as possible to use as talking head sound clips in a larger context. She doesn’t know exactly what she’s going to get from any of these conversations, so she needs to have as much talking as possible. The program was produced for PBS, so the audience was a general one who indeed might have known very little about the process, even if they knew a lot about Bernstein. Don’t forget, he was equally known as an orchestral conductor, maybe the greatest who ever lived. Even classical music aficionados would likely need a primer on Broadway collaboration (or at least find it interesting.)

[@treesny]

I agree completely. A very valuable interview, both to "laypeople" and those in the profession, precisely because Sondheim goes into detail about his process of working with Bernstein on WSS -- really interesting to hear about all the nuts-and-bolts of "creative work." Also, I fully agree that Sondheim seems (for him) relaxed and forthcoming. So great to have an extended conversation like this available to us, rather than just whatever finally ended up in the documentary. Thank you.@@Twentythousandlps

[@sarahjones-jf4pr]

@@themusicalspeakeasy2439 Sondheim did not seem to appreciate some of the idiotic questions she was aking him as if she had not prepared beforehand to interview him with correct facts, and the narrative on this you have to strain to here what the woman is aking hin.

[@danaivey254]

The words in subtitles are terrible. Often no approximation of what he is saying!

[@themusicalspeakeasy2439]

the subtitles here are a a copy-and-pasting of the transcript on the site, which probably was added more for convenience's sake than accuracy. i have to imagine they were automatically generated by PBS for this interview, and at most hastily glanced at by editors before being published

[@danaivey254]

@@themusicalspeakeasy2439 It's really too bad -- they have no idea who Comden and Green are, or were.

[@sonjarenda]

14:every things free in America or …..

[@mandolindleyroadshow706]

Interesting that Sondheim had a problem with "Somewhere." A simple solution would seem to me instead of, "There's "uh" place for us," make it, "There's ONE place for us." Same idea, but accenting a stronger one syllable word might have solved his problem. He must have thought of it, but for some reason didn't use it.

[@Twentythousandlps]

Another way of "fixing" the problem would be to make "a" a quarter note instead of a half note, with "there's" a dotted half note of course.

[@dennischiapello7243]

"One" changes the meaning, and not in a good way. Maybe "some," but I don't think that sounds much better.

[@dennischiapello7243]

@@Twentythousandlps As written, "a" is on a dotted half note, just like "There's." I believe I've sometimes heard a variation in the rhythm in a later appearance of the tune: the first measure is silent, and in the next measure "There's a" is half note, quarter note (or sometimes equalized with two dotted quarter notes.) Of course, this would not work at the beginning of the song.

[@Twentythousandlps]

As written, the first two notes are un-dotted half notes.@@dennischiapello7243

[@marygoff5472]

He also disliked “I feel pretty” thought the lyrics were too sophisticated for Maria!

[@reelincoln7747]

Ok Sondheim is Sondheim Bernstein has no voice here

[@MalEvansUSA]

Sondheim was jealous of maestro Bernstein

[@themusicalspeakeasy2439]

from Mary Rodgers’ memoir Shy: “The less fun it was for him, the more adulation he required and the more needy he became. (…) Lenny asked if we’d seen Sweeney Todd, which was then in previews. Before we could say “Yes, and we adored it,”, he launched into his appraisal: Disgusting, enough to make you want to throw up in your galoshes! I guess Steve finally got to write a musical that suits his temperament perfectly. Or words to that effect. Appalled at his obvious envy, let alone his treachery towards Steve in front of the old gossip, I must have been staring daggers, because when we stopped to drop him at the Dakota, where he was then living, he stuck out his lower lip and said, “You’re mad at me, aren’t you?” and looked as if he would cry. “Yes,” I seethed. What he would have envied most in Sweeney Todd was the absolutely unlaboured flow of its music. It was scary, brilliant, and gorgeous, yes, but also fun, the one thing Lenny couldn’t do anymore. But my God, when he could!”

[@MalEvansUSA]

@@themusicalspeakeasy2439 Sondheim was a jealous of maestros talents

[@themusicalspeakeasy2439]

@@MalEvansUSA i. ok

[@jefolson6989]

Zzzzz

[@sarahjones-jf4pr]

Don't like it ? turn off and leave instead of being rude.

[@jefolson6989]

@sarahjones-jf4pr lol. I did after a few boring minutes. It takes so little to trigger some people. Doesn't even take a whole word! What other letters do you consider rude? And how is my single LETTER more rude than your comment. The rudest thing is to call attention to anothers rudeness. But I guess since it was done in a ( misguided) attempt to protect one of your sacred heros , it can be forgiven. Plus I don't have the inclination to fight with strangers. You said more about yourself than you did me or Sondheim.

[@sarahjones-jf4pr]

@@jefolson6989 For goodness sake grow up,my comment was inspired by your zs meaning this was so boring that it sent you to sleep and you are totally out of context ,Sondheim was one of the greatest musical writers in the world and certainly does not warrant insult albeit one word or several ,

[@jefolson6989]

@@sarahjones-jf4pr or no words. He was great. He deserves better than dull clips.

[@jefolson6989]

Exactly. Snoozefest. I listen to 5 minutes every night to put me asleep.