Steve's Santa Cruz Chameleon Bike Check

[@markchalloner5883]

I've been racing enduro on my Transition Throttle. Running 27.5 wheels with 2.8/2.6 tires front and rear. Love this bike! Long live the hardtail!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Yeah, rock on!

[@MarkVanWey]

Did a factory demo ride on the Chameleon in September. You nailed it on the short chain stays. That frame is so nimble. Really easy to wheelie & was great on crazy roots & rock down hills. It feels very "familiar", like I have been riding it forever.. I just don't trust it at high speed. Great video. Good insight on your experiences. Keep it up.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I agree. If it had a slacker head angle, it would be the perfect bike and easier to trust at speed.

[@kzookid545]

Your original review prompted me to purchase a gently used 2018 SC Chameleon as my first nice general purpose bike. I love it. I also replaced my NX shifter for a GX. I plan on replacing my LS schwalbe rocket rons with the maxxis minion DHR/DHF’s in 27.5 x 2.8. I feel that the rocket rons have too much squish and too thin of sidewalks for the terrain I ride in. I’m probably going to opt for a wolf tooth dropper lever as the race face just feels too sloppy. Thanks for the update!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Kzoo Kid Williams excellent choices. A lot of plus bikes get a bad rap because of tires that have sidewalls that are too thin. You’ll love the 2.8 minions.

[@kubagajda7347]

Wow! Lots changed since the original review :D I've wrapped maybe 1/5th of that distance on my BigHonzo (which btw has exactly the same CS length if ur curious) but found exactly what You've been talking about back then - playfulness and fat tire cushion, that's really great! In time I guess I'll get to change the same things on my bike though - brakes, pedals, shifter, grips. Some day. Keep on great work, cheers from Poland! :D

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

congrats on the BigHonzo, it looks like a really fun bike.

[@wills4343]

The Wolftooth dropper lever IS the best upgrade you can do. That was the first upgrade I made to my bike.

[@ThunderStruckMTB]

My 2019 Slate Blue Chameleon S+ build is being delivered tomorrow..... super stoked for New Bike Day.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

congrats! Hopefully you have some great weather to ride it in.

[@chrispewkreme]

If there’s anything I’ve learned, it’s that a nice rear hub is worth the money, and a short chain stay is super fun. I cannot for the life of me manual my current mountain bike. But I can manual the hell out of any bmx bike.

[@josephesparza4280]

Been waiting for this. Another great review. I really enjoy my chameleon!!

[@rjahn3000]

I believe the Specialized Fuse has a 430mm chain stay length and 66 degree head tube angle may be a less expensive option for some people, cheers!

[@roryvermeulen5761]

Steve, can i point out the airdrop bitmap. This might be a frame you would like. Only downside, it only takes tyres up to 2.6 (27,5). Check it out if you can.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Awesome suggestion. That wasn't on my radar. Fantastic geo numbers. I'll bet that ike is a riot! I'd love to test ride one.

[@roryvermeulen5761]

The More We Explore also check out the whyte 900 series. The whyte 901 is a budget friendly trail/enduro hardtail. Short offset fork and even slacker headtube angle. And i know whyte sells bikes in the usa. Maybe they could provide you a demobike 😉. By the way awesome review and congrats on the baby.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I wish I had the pull to get them to send a demo bike. I'd LOVE to demo the 905. It ticks all the boxes on paper. I've never seen one in person.

[@aregularguy2662]

Awesome video. I'm relatively new to this sport so it's great to hear about different components and where I can and can't skimp...cuz damn this sport is expensive.

[@lisawhitwell2261]

Informative and honest review Steve. I ride a Stif Morf hard tail mountain bike and it’s so much fun. I’m going to have a look at purchasing some plus tyres and a Timber Bell 👍🏻 Thanks, Lisa.

[@johndavis3938]

Just finished building my first hardtail. I built a complete custom Nukeproof Scout 275 plus. I had a ton of fun building it and more fun riding it! I don't miss my full suspension at all. I considered the Chameleon but the price of the Nukeproof frame and my choice of components was a better option for me. Great bike Steve and love the channel!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Awesome to hear you're loving your scout so much.

[@Ryanschaff5566]

How do you like the Nukeproof? I’m looking into getting a Nukeproof Scout comp or a chameleon

[@Egcmikey]

I’ve just ordered a 2020 Alloy chameleon in black... Super excited to see how playful it is, my current bike is super long with slack head angle and I just don’t enjoy riding it.

[@deadlyblade3k]

I got a 2017 Orbea Loki and love the plus tires for around houston.... tons of roots etc and really rolls over them way faster than a normal 27.5 or 29 inch tire. First thing i did was upgrade the tires to maxxis HR2 3" up front and DHR 2.8 in rear. And a 130/140 Pike up front.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Tess has an Orbea Laufey (exact same bike as the Loki... it even says Loki on the frame), and I agree. It's a great bike! If they could get the chainstays to 415, it'd be perfect for me, and I'd be riding one too. Still, it's one of the best values out there for plus bikes. I'm a huge fan of that bike, and I know Tess loves hers too.

[@deadlyblade3k]

I haven’t ridden one with less so can’t say I know the difference. Ya I went with a 2017 so mines black with red/purple logos. Y’all should try a oval chainring I just got one and so far it’s awesome

[@B1KER]

Thanks for the review. I respect your opinion on things. I’m super excited to get mine. For some reason Santa Cruz keeps pushing my frame back.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

You're not alone. Did you order yours? Frame only, or complete build?

[@B1KER]

Frame only. It's been pushed back three times. Originally was supposed to come in around the beginning of Sept. Now it's set for November.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Dang, that sucks. I've heard of that happeneing with the completes. I didn't realize it was happeneing with the frames too. I know you're a fan of Santa Cruz, but check out the Commencal Meta AM HT. That's the bike I'd get if I were using a plus hardtail for 95% trail riding. And at your height, you might actually enjoy the slightly longer chainstay. it'll match the chainstay of your bronson. Just a thought...

[@B1KER]

I already paid for the frame and really like the idea of the different dropouts to build it as a SS, 27.5+, or 29er. I feel like I can get a lot of content out of this bike and also have a great time with it.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Rock on. Sounds like a good plan.

[@willbrunet4338]

Steve’s original review of the Santa Cruz chameleon was awesome, it inspired me to buy a plus size hard-tail. I love the plus size platform, it enabled me to improve my downhill performance while still being faster then my Dad on the up-hill! Can’t wait for the upcoming mtb vids!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Awesome, so glad it inspired you to get a plus hardtail! They're fun, aren't they?

[@4SeasonSports]

Thanks Steve. I'm dragging my feet on ordering the R+ 2019. Some of my concerns were addressed in your bike check. The shifter for one and definitely the brakes. Like you, I feel the bike is over priced but there isn't anything else to throw money at. It will be a 2nd bike to sit aside the FSR. Thanks for giving me something to think about -or at least the realization that I may have some upgrades ahead such as brakes, probably not immediately unless I really dislike them right out of the gate.

[@paulv8453]

Hi Steve & Tess, does anyone know if you can install something like the e-thirteen ISCG ADAPTER on this bike so you can run a bash-guard? Thanks 😊

[@coolcycles]

Hi Steve, would you prefer to pedal shorter cranks at a higher cadence? [Bring that up, cause scaling down from my inseam and 175mm cranks, you should use 136mm, or I should use 218,5mm cranks. The later is obviously not easy to do, as low bbs are hip these days.]

[@HallMarc_Trails]

I love the look of that bike, too expensive as a spare bike though as i have a full suss orange four as my main, maybe one day i can afford a superb hardtail alternative like this one :) great bike check btw :)

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Yup, it's not a cheap one. It's funny, I have a $$$ enduro bike, but the chameleon gets all the attention whenever I take it somewhere. Not everyone can afford two bikes, and I get that, but it's amazing how often I reach for this instead of my full suspension. I gets about 50/50 ride time with my SPOT, just depending on where i'm riding.

[@YesNo-es1ty]

My 2017 Cannondale cujo 2 rips. I’ve upgraded to a 1x with rear clutch derailleur, Maxxis tires, esi extra chunky grips and the only thing that I hate about it is the 27.2mm seat tube. It’s so hard to find a dropper post with having to sell a kidney. In short... it’s a blast!!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

My mom has a cujo 2 and she loves it. It's not quite my cup of tea, but I'm stoked you like yours so much. Doesn't KS make a 27.2 dropper?

[@YesNo-es1ty]

The More We Explore they do but I think I’m leaning towards the pnw pine. 100mm is about all I’m gonna get out of a dropper in 27.2 I’m curious to know why it doesn’t make your list? I’m honestly new to the tech and geo side of mtb so I like hearing/reading opinions and then doing research to try and understand these opinions for a future mtb purchase.

[@rotorwind177]

Nice bike. I ride a Kona Honzo and it has the same exact chain stay. Love it

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Cool! I thought those had a 420mm chainstay for some reason.

[@bikerdhill]

nice bike check, I have an Orbea hardtail, I need to upgrade the fork to a 130mm travel, just to get the head angle slackened out to where it is more comfortable to ride downhills without fear of going otb, and you will hit 20,000 subs soon, good luck guys

[@RideWithGravity]

I've had a thing for the Chameleon for nearly 2 decades. Such a ripper of a bike. Good call on the grips, SC grips snag on trees like no other.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Me too! My first time riding a chameleon was in 2000. My roomate had one and I fell in love with that thing. This bike totally has the same DJ/Trail Ripper/Hooning feel that the old chameleons had. i'm really surprised Santa Cruz hasn't marketed this bike better.

[@NikiDorian]

Excellent presentation! Gave me so much food for thought. Thank you, sir!

[@dmeltzerdc]

Do you know what the HT angle became with the 140 fork?Would love to know what you think of the 130mm 2019/2020 being such a fan of the 2018.

[@chameleonpogono]

Nice video! I like that you're honest about the cost of the bike. I want to get the fork you have. Think it would help with my joints. I'm also going to try wider tires, as you suggested. Also, a different rear shock. Need money first. Who knows, if I get the money, maybe just get a whole new bike.

[@TheS13browe]

This is the best review of this bike or even this category and i have seen them all. I am really torn and losing sleep deciding between this bike in R+ or ordering a Commencal meta ht am essential. Do you think the chameleon short chain stay is worth choosing it over the Commencals 428 chainstay? It sounds like you like to ride the same as me with playing around aggressively i don't bike pack though. Would i miss the longer front fork travel of the Commencal? We have a lot of roots, and rock. I am coming from an old 26' wheel aggressive full suspension Kona. Also if I do go Chameleon I am 5'6" tall and have 29" inseam close to you, should i get a small or medium? I don't trust the bike shop as they have only medium in stock so seem to want to dump them instead of order a small.. Sorry for all the questions i am afraid to make the wrong choice i don't get money to throw around often so need to do it right the first time.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Excellent question. Depends on how/where you'll be riding it. If you want to ride MTB trails as fast as possible, the commencal will be better for that. The slack HT and longer CS will encourage you to go fast. It'll be a riot bombing down hills. It won't be quite as fun for goofing around with manuals, bunny-hops, skate-park stuff. It'll still be fun, but not as fun as the chameleon. For dirt jumps, trials, bike parks, skateparks, and general trails where your main goal isn't maxiumum speed, the chameleon wins. For speeds under 20MPH, it's fine. The chameleon is better at goofing around, treating it like a DJ/Trials/BMX bike. The only downside (and it's a big one) of the Chameleon is the HTA. If it had a 65* HTA, it would be a perfect trail bike for me (though it would lose some of its snap in the skate park and DJs). I wish the two bikes could have a baby with the front end of the commencal and the rear end of the chameleon. I'm your same height. Get a small chameleon The medium is too long (in my opinon). Everyone has roots and rock, so it should be similar.

[@blambmtb6189]

Have you heard of rsd bikes?? Canadian brand, they have a new plus bike called the Middle Child with more aggressive geo. Just curious if you think aggressive Hardtails still climb well

[@blambmtb6189]

Chain stays are adjustable from 415-430

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

That looks like a cool bike. Not inexpensive, but it's got some cool features on it! Yes, I think aggressive hardtails still climb well.

[@mtbboy1993]

sounds like you are as aware of the play in shifters, I haven't sued Sram shifters, but I used Xt m8000 & XTR 9000 they too got play, it's between the mount, so it wiggles, triggers also got some play. it all was like that new. also no shifters on the market fit me. I regularly take the shifters apart & service them, cleaning, and packing the mechanism with Sram butter.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

definitely give the higher end SRAM shifters a try. My all-time favorite shifter is an XX1 shifter. $$$, but it feels so crisp. It also has a reach adjust, where you can rotate the angle the thumb shifter engages. You can also adjust it left and right a bit. I believe the X01 shifters have the same adjustments too. Definitely check 'em out.

[@owenkennedy7854]

Have you tried setting that bike up with mullet wheels setup?

[@Jedlmind]

Have you tried the 54t ratchet upgrade for DT hubs? They cost $100, but it makes pushes the engagement into the acceptable level. I'm wondering if you can compare the onyx to the dt hubs with the 54t upgrade.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Yes, ive tried it. Good engagement, but it makes them weaker and louder. If i had dt swiss hubs, I'd put the 54t in it. The 54t upgrade only works witg dt swiss hubs. The onyx hubs are better than a dt dwiss with the 54t ratchet anyway. Instant engagement, soft engagement, and they're 100% silent.

[@Jedlmind]

Cool. Thank you for the review. I'll seek some out to try!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Allright fellow bike nerds... does anyone know of a great aluminum plus hardtail with 415mm chainstays and a 65-66* hta?

[@rubengarcia575]

The Chromag rootdown has those measurement and it is a steel frame .

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I love the geo of the rootdown, great suggestion! I just wish they made an aluminum frame for $500, then I'd own one. Steel is great if you run narrow tires, but it rusts, it's more expensive, and it's heavier than aluminum. With plus tires, I don't need the flex of a steel frame, so I'd rather save a little money on an aluminum one.

[@johannesrohrl2283]

I ride the Alutech Cheaptrick. 425mm chainstay 65* hta. It is available in 29“ and 27.5“ plus. Everytime i ride it, i love it more...

[@danielball8088]

The whyte 905 has 425 mm and 65.5 angle and best part is its 500 bucks cheaper than the chemalian

[@danielball8088]

But then again after learning a lot from you guys at the jump track a couple weeks ago I went with the chemalian and love it so far

[@BengLang84]

Does a stache belongs to one of the awesome hardtail plus bike? Thanks =)

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Alvin Enobio absolutely! The Stash is an amazing bike.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

Takes 3.0 tyres so yes haha

[@BryantJBole]

Great bike check, look into the kona Honzo plus. It has 415 stays

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

So true, it's got really short stays and is an amazing value for the money. Unfortunately that 68* hta is a deal-breaker though. It's even steeper than the chameleon. With a 65-66* hta, that bike would be a real winner. Bummer about the press-fit bb too. I guess you can't have it all...

[@gino7121]

Hey bro it is a good bike to make xc and trail ?

[@BengLang84]

Hi Steve nice bike! I Just want to ask. I heard you said you bumped up thr travel of your fork to 140mm. Can you do that to all the fork? By the way I am using a rockshox yari 120mm in my stache 7 2018. I am a beginner this is why I am asking this. Tha mnks once again =)

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

no, not all forks can be bumped up. This is a 160 fork I actually lowered to 140mm. The stock rhythm can be bumped up to 130mm, but that's the max. I'm not sure if your yari can be bumped up or not.

[@BengLang84]

@@TheMoreWeExplore thanks Steve =)

[@reijin64]

How come you didn't end up getting the SRAM matchmaker for the dropper post lever? Wolf tooth offer it and it makes a world of difference

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I bought the wolftooth months before I went to the guide RSC brakes. The matchmaker doesn't work with the original level T brakes that came with it. I may upgrade eventually. I'm not sure it makes a world of a difference, but I do like how streamlined it is.

[@Eri94]

The chameleon frame is nice but for the same price as a chromag stylus frame, I’d say the chromag is more bang for the buck

[@mtbboy1993]

was the footage edited? the footage looks weird, is is glitchy camera app? have you tried oval chainrings? for me it was a huge help. I found the Esi grips too wear out too fast for me, it would be too expensive to swap out every 4th week, problem is they got too soft and my hands were ramming into the bars. I now Use Rev Grips, much more durable. of ocurse tyres will make a difference the bigger the tyres and lower pressures you got the less this effects how harsh it's on your hands, so in the summer I could go on with too soft grips, but not in the winter, when I ran narrow tyres with higher pressures, but better winter tyres is something I have to look into, cus I want big winter tyres, in the same size as my summer setup.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I get about 4-6 months out of each set of ESI grips. I find the key is to run bigger bar end plugs. I use cult bmx bar plugs to protect the grips.

[@mtbboy1993]

@@TheMoreWeExplore I used hope grip doctor.

[@mtbboy1993]

that's a must, not just for protecting the grips but to protect yourself & the handlebar.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

right, but what I'm saying is a larger bar plug will protect the grips far better than the stock esi grip plug. I'm betting the hope plugs do the same thing. The cult plugs are almost as big around as the grips, so they end up lasting me a very long time.

[@michaelh5967]

Awesome review man! Been looking into getting a chameleon and your vids have been really great for feedback. Wondering if you can offer any more info about those silent hubs? So cool. Any quality semi-affordable brands you could recommend to get a silent set up like that for those of us building on a budget? Thanks!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

there are no silent instant-engagement hubs that are cheap, sorry about that. :( I like my chameleon a ton, but if you're going to be bombing down hills super fast, I'd recommend something with a slacker head angle. Eventually I'll replace my chameleon with something slacker.

[@bsbrand3205]

way t go man! you talked me out of a new "downcountry" bike! I knew i was getting played! I haven't owned a hartail in 20 yrs. But Im going back. A new hardtail for me. Just made an offer on 2020 Chameleon on FB Marketplace!

[@delisasadventures6609]

Steve i need some advice please. I saw this video and it made me wanna buy a Chamaeleon so I did. Just the frame and build it but I am having an issue when it comes to the Derailleur when I’m on the small gear the chain is loose i bought a goat link 11 i shortened the chain and nothing seems to be working. Do you have and advice I’m trying to run a box 1 1 x 11, Box 1 derailleur and shifter

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I've been a mechanic for years, but I've never worked on box stuff. It can't be all that different from the other deraileurs. You might need to adjust the B+ screw, and your chain might still be too long. Without pictures or seeing it, that's the best I can do. You can send me pics on instagram @themoreweexplore and I'll tell ya what I think.

[@Y0UM4DBR0]

I've been thinking about what hardtail to get as my next bike. ever since i saw steve check out the chameleon, its been my choice. but we'll see what happens.

[@TheArsenalGoonship]

Trek Stache is my most fun bike I own and has super short chain stays.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Agreed, the stache is an amazing bike! It's incredible how they can get a 420mm chainstay length on a 29+. If I were taller, and the HTA were a bit slacker, I'd most likely be on a stache. Those are so much fun. I think a lot of riders would benefit from learning to ride a bike like the stache well, and they've got to be one of the best bikepacking rigs ever built.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

There's one on sale 2k off but only in a medium and I'm 184cm 200 pounds .... might have to try

[@romiejohnbanares1184]

sir i have also santa cruz chameleon and my shifter is broken. i would like to upgrade it to the new shimano xtr shifter. because its the best shifter out there. do u have an idea if it will work? the nx setup is like shimano also. because it uses shimano hubs. Thanks for the reply. i like to be sure before i buy it. please help me try it.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I don't think you can mix shifters between sram and shimano. I believe the indexing is different between the two. Truth be told, I think if you go with a gx shifter for $25, you'll be golden. While XTR and XX1 are nice, they're totally overpriced, and most people won't be able to tell the difference between them. The truth is, shimano and sram make fantastic shifters and derailleurs, but it's best to stick with all sram or all shimano shifters, chain, cassette, and derailleurs.

[@romiejohnbanares1184]

i did buy the new xtr m9100 shifter.and it works 100percent. good thing. hehehe

[@tinman1955]

Trek Stache has nearly the same chainstay length with 29+ x 3" tires. Ever ride one?

[@GLedesma]

What size are your chainstays? My Pine Mountain 1 are 437, and super nimble. Took it out on a gravel ride on Saturday.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

415mm. It may not sound like an inch makes much of a difference with a measurement, but it's a HUGE difference (especially for shorter riders like me)

[@pmaui]

hell yes! I own one too! Personally my chain stay is all the way back(long) because I love to ride downhill fast and it's also playful! I might go back to short chain stay for fun. I have no regrets bout this bike even it's overprice. Worth it and I love how the dropout works. Damn! So have you tried running long chain stay? What ya think?

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

In my opinion, the best part about this bike are the short chainstays. Long chainstays are way less playful/fun to me. I feel more stable and planted to the ground with longer chainstays, but for jumps, hops, technical moves, manuals, etc., nothing beats a short chainstay.

[@pmaui]

@@TheMoreWeExplore Yes! I agree with you. It's personal preference. :) I will try to go back to short chainstay.

[@trails2ales254]

Thanks for this, Steve (and Tess for sharing via your channel). ' appreciate all the details you shared and, more important, that you state clearly "this is my opinion, this is why I chose this part/set up." Isn't that what these bike checks are all about? We watch them to see what riders ride and why they ride them. You given food for thought fo sure. Oh, and don't let the "Gods of MTB" hear you say "I've never..." They may just decide you need some new equipment fail experiences ;-)

[@morbly]

The Trek Stache could be the frame for you. The stranglehold dropouts allow about an inch of movement forward on the rear axel

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

With my height, a 29.5+ is just too large. It's hard to get behind it, and the stache has too steep of a head angle for me. That being said, I think they're fantastic bikes, just not the right bike for me.

[@izziesan2446]

The Diamondback sync’r carbon is due some time later this year. The specs are pretty close to the Chameleon. Hoping it’ll be a good alternative to the Santa Cruz.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I've been excited to see the geo numbers of that bike. If the geo is dialed, that'll be a tough bike to beat for the price.

[@andydevault7975]

Yep yep I was soooo stoked reading about the sync r but they are only gonna sell it as a complete bike. No frame only option unfortunately

[@samphilx4]

Hey bro, what do you think of the plus tyres? Im on the fence about what to go for.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I think they're fantastic. They're not quite as fast as narrow tires, but they're a blast. See my original review of this bike for my thoughts.

[@RVRC313]

Have you ever rode the Trek Stache 7? How you compare the SC Chameleon with the Trek Stache 7?

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Yes, I've ridden both. The trek stache is a very fun bike, but it's a big bike. I can't play around as easily on the stache. That being said, the stache is one of my favorite 29er hardrails. If you're over 6' tall, if you stay on the ground, or if you cover long distances on each ride, a stache may be a better bike for you. For me, the chameleon is far more playful. When I try to manual the stache i end up buzzing my butt on the huge rear tire.

[@RVRC313]

The More We Explore I’m starting MTB and I’m looking on buying a MTB and I’m undecided between the Stache 7 and the SC chameleon. I’m short thought I’m only 5’7”.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Very cool. both are fantastic bikes. I would go to the store and ride both of them, in a few different sizes. If you're going to be keeping your wheels on the ground most of the time (you envision that type of riding), and you're covering 20+ miles per ride, the stache would be my recommendation. For goofing around, jumping, wheelies, etc. I would recommend the chameleon (because of your height). Throw a leg over a size small and size medium chameleon. Try going up and down curbs. See which one feels more comfortable.

[@RVRC313]

The More We Explore Thanks!

[@hpkiunzy]

Chromag Wideangle, Stylus and Samurai have a similar chainstay or even shoter depending on the frame size. The bikes are made of chromo . They are gnarly bikes.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Chromag makes some great bikes. I've had a few incredible steel hardtails, but I'd love aluminum or ti for the weight savings and corrosion resistance.

[@hpkiunzy]

@@TheMoreWeExplore 4130 tubing corrosion isn't an inssue, rust will only develop in surface. I have to agree with the weught, but it's honestly not that bad. chromag wideangle is 6lb and chameleon is 4.7 lb. with a rider body weight + the complete bike weight it's not a big difference. But i understand why some people wpuld prefer the direct feeling of aluminium, you feel a little more connected to the trail and it's alsoway cheaper

[@Jacob99174]

Hey, just a shout out to your reviews. Real good stuff Can you review Giant Fathom 1?

[@benjaminreohr4577]

Check out a Canfield Nimble 9. It is steel and has the plus and 29er option!

[@ronaldomac566]

Another great knowledgeable video from the Dusty B crew, i have been looking at the Marin San Quentin 3 which is cheaper than the Chameleon and has a similar geometry so might get that instead. Can anybody recommend this...? Keep the videos coming guys.....!!!!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

On paper, the san quentin looks almost perfect for a trail ripper. It's a great price too. I don't think you can go wrong with a san quentin, it looks great. I wish I had an oportunity to ride and review one. My only question is: what's the max tire size you can run on it? It looks like it comes with 2.6 tires, which would be a blast, but 2.8 or 3.0 compatibility would be awesome.

[@ronaldomac566]

Yeh it comes with 2.6 tyres but not sure if you can go bigger with the frame geometry..!

[@endyw76]

Hey Steve I have the 2018 trek stache 9.7 Carbon you should look into it has a short chain stay very playful I went from Trek fuel full suspension to hardtail

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Yes, I love the short chaistay of the stache. I don't love the steep head angle, and the 29+ tires are a little too large for a short guy like me, but for taller riders, they're perfect.

[@ed35084]

I miss mine. It was stolen in Eugene, Oregon on my way to PCS to Alaska. Drove through Oregon, Washington and Canada without a bike, so may good trails missed...

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Dang, that's a sad story!

[@ed35084]

I was mad the rest of the drive to Alaska, all good now I got a Stumpjumper

[@Jedlmind]

You want it slacker, but when you extend the fork and slacken it out, you notice it steers poorly? I think you're noticing that you don't want it slacker (I am coming from a long bike to a chameleon for the better low-speed handling). Overall awesome build and it was insightful to hear your logic for how/why you upgraded (especially caring about the rear hub and not about the front)-- definitely something lots of us should hear! Anyway, Great vid! Also, do you just recommend buying the frame?

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Actually, I do want it slacker. Running a 160mm fork on a hardtail is too unbalanced for me. I've ridden a lot of bikes, and I definitely would like this bike to be slacker. It's always super expensive to build a frame up. Granted, I've replaced 40% of the parts on this thing, but it still saves me a lot of money to buy the R+ build.

[@benge3092]

1. Have your ridden the level ultimates? If so, what's your opinion? 2. Where's Fender?

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I've ridden the guide ultimates. I don't think they have level ultimates. The ultimates usually just mean a carbon lever. I can't tell a performance difference between guide rsc and guide ultimate.

[@e.g.sergio]

Overpaying for the R+ frame: if you have such a strong inclination to a specific geometry; have you looked at a custom frame? Gunnar custom steel frames are crazy value.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I'll have to look into them. I don't feel like steel has much of an advantage for a plus hardtail. It rusts, it's a bit heavier, and it's usually more expensive. That being said, if weight and price could get close to aluminum, that'd be awesome. The main problem with building from a frame up is that it's even less of a value than buying a complete bike. While I feel the R+ is overpriced, I'd spend way more if I were to build it up piece by piece.

[@hughsnyder891]

Very nice bike ! Hey Steve what shorts are you wearing ? Keep up the great work !

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

these are fox shorts. That's all I know about them, sorry!

[@hughsnyder891]

That’s all you need to know. Thanks😊

[@per4mexbagger541]

thank you for this unbiased review. too much sponsored content these days

[@hardtailparty]

You're welcome.

[@trevoranderson6391]

been loving my 2019 r+ with the 130 fork and nx eagle! Killer bike

[@ben156]

Bigger tires might mean more traction but running a 2.25 or 2.35 will feel much faster and fun imo.

[@adamf.8564]

What is the point for a rear hub to be this silent? I mean I don’t like it when it’s extremely loud either, but this silent? .... I don’t know.

[@ermoj4168]

Very informative, thanks

[@francmeister420]

i picked up my s+ last week. most fun bike I've ever ridden

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Congrats on the new bike. Which color did you get?

[@francmeister420]

The More We Explore orange

[@christiannorrisgayanilo5237]

What's the size of the tire?

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

27.5x3.0

[@mwinner101]

Hard tails are the best! 👍

[@hopooba]

I’m glad I didn’t pay for full price for my SC Chem. I do want to swap out the brakes for Guides.

[@agonybydf9973]

Frame price hint please

[@chriswest579]

What is your other bike?

[@chriswest579]

The Chameleon is nice. I almost bought a Chameleon frame but went with a Tallboy frame. I don't know much if anything about Spot bikes. It would be beneficial to do a bike check on a Spot.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

@@chriswest579 We have several videos of the reviews and ride reports of our spots.

[@jeffsharp4982]

Maybe a Chromag frame? Probably not cheaper, but short chain stays and slacker head angle than the Chameleon.

[@davidquiroz2792]

Try the transition vanquish or throttle

[@andydevault7975]

David Quiroz both are super awesome rigs but way expensive for a HT. fantasy plastic!

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

They don't accept plus tires sadly.

[@Kent.]

I like that bike!!!

[@0Myles0]

Well done, Steve

[@totalglitch]

How tall are you?

[@nbo7207]

Dusty Betty what size bike do you ride? Small or medium?

[@dallasdavis-timms3574]

5000 miles in 8 months! Averaging 20 miles a day for 8 months on that bike?

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Good catch. I was way off on my estimate. Sometimes I’m not so great thinking on the fly, mid-sentence. I'm betting I'm closer to 2500-3000 miles on this bike. I've had it on multiple trips where we did 110+ miles in 3 days. Those add up fast. I've run through a few sets of tires already. I typically ride about 75-100 miles a week, and most rides are in the 15-22 mile range but I do occasionally ride 40+ mile days.

[@willitsareacyclists6281]

As soon as I heard 5,000 miles in 8 months, I had to check the comments for everyone calling BS... Pretty nice crowd up in here.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

yeah, we have a great crowd. I don't really script these videos beforehand, so I just talk stream of consciousness. Occasionally I get info wrong and I don't realize it 'till it's too late. In this case, it's closer to 3000 miles than 5000 miles. We have really understanding viewers who get that we make mistakes from time to time, especially when we're just talking off the cuff.

[@bobnieves8967]

that is a nice santa cruz bike.

[@scotth8681]

This was my next bike, until I checked out the Co-op DRT 2.1. Chainstays are close in length and they can also be converted to 29'ers. But half the price. Also ideal for bikepacking. Check it out on sale www.rei.com/product/106335/co-op-cycles-drt-21-bike

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Definitely a great bike for the price. Personally, I think 20mm is a big difference for chainstays, but 435 isn't awful. Sounds like a great bike for the $, especially for bikepaking.

[@kaysen6763]

The Dartmoor hornet grams has shorter chain-stays

[@Goodman-4525]

Got a 15% discount for my order so the value gets a bit better I guess

[@finnsmtb896]

Ur hardtail part sick man

[@XCRiders]

Esi racers edge are the best (Slim ones) no numb hands

[@sethnicholls7861]

You are fabulous w your review, I absolutely love your choice in bikes and or style. Very " dapper and stylish". AND you're so particularrrr. Totally surprised that your WIFE ended YOUR video tho, I felt so bummed it was SO OVER .. Nice effect, you're too RAD and cute ;-)

[@saulopena1909]

Keep it up buttercup 💪!

[@sthr2110]

I run Onyx on all of my wheelsets and won't use anything else...plus...Onyx is local to me.

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

Same here. After riding Onyx, I don't think I'll ever be happy with another rear hub. Every other bike is distracting now, with how much slop there is in the engagement.

[@sthr2110]

@@TheMoreWeExplore For me, it is the silence. All I hear is minute chain noise and whatever my tires are rolling/crunching over. Blissful tranquility. I use a Spurcycle bell to announce my approach.

[@rafaelbravo3296]

Cool to see onyx hubs on a chameleon, I see them at the bmx track all the time. Great hubs

[@NallePu83]

This is a great bike, but the frame should be cheaper…..it`s made in China frame

[@agonybydf9973]

How much would the frame cost?? Range or price please

[@chriswest579]

Reasonable budget, Fox factory fork, guide RSC brakes Lol

[@TheMoreWeExplore]

I didn't have to buy the fork, it was sitting around from another build. And the fork wasn't necessary. The Rhythm fork is a great fork.

[@chriswest579]

@@TheMoreWeExplore sick build bro. I'm selling my Hardtail if you are interested. As far as another short chainstay. Look as Sick bicycles, Ragley, On-One, Caltic, a few other English and Scottish brands. The Ragley Piglet was MBR hard tail of the year 2017. The English and Scottish have the hardtail bike down to a science.

[@chriswest579]

@@TheMoreWeExplore the New Ragley bikes will be out soon. The 2017 Ragley Blue Pig was MBR hardtail of the year in 2017. All 4130 Steel. With that beening said I do like the Chameleon and it maybe on my short depending on what Ragley comes out with for 2019.

[@caballodeacerocaballodeace4766]

Estoy de acuerdo la chamaleon Santa Cruz es la mejor ¡. Con todo respeto para que tu vídeo sea más efectivo me refiero a tu persona estas pasadizo de peso creo que unas 20 libras -- animó ¡ si se pude !!!