Steven Universe is Ideologically Rotten (Glass of Water)

[@dashingtothepoint5745]

Forgiving abusive family members unconditionally is the worst lesson to teach children as some have ended up dead as a result of staying in a abusive home.

[@TiffanyRay]

staying with an abusive family is fucking suicide the only thing thats stopping me is lack of money and a place to stay so i practically have no choice

[@BlackDiamond2718]

Forgiving anyone unconditionally is bad. Just means they did it with no consequence.

[@adurnadrago3936]

@@TiffanyRay Same with me. Hope you are doing ok.

[@kokichiyoursupremeleader.1713]

Connor Burch Hope you both are doing ok

[@adurnadrago3936]

@@kokichiyoursupremeleader.1713 Thank you! I am doing well! My sister gets it worse than me, sadly. I just try to limit my interactions with them as much as possible. I hope you are doing well.

[@kylepope7850]

Amusingly, while "Steven Universe" pushes this "forgiveness for family" theme for Steven it completely abandoned it for Vidalia and Sour Cream. Vidalia has absolutely nothing good to say about Marty and the one time Marty showed up in Sour Cream's life it was to exploit him. The show makes it quite clear that Vidalia and Sour Cream have immeasurably better lives when Marty isn't around.

[@BorkShibe]

I was abused by my mother my whole life and the times I cut her out. I constantly heard, "She's your Mother!" And I used to cave and go back, but thanks to therapy and a true support system that shit doesn't work anymore. "She's your Mother!" My response now is. "She gave birth to me, my real Mother was the woman who loved and raised me, drop it."

[@kipluck4721]

Katie Wolcott that’s a sad story but good for you for getting through it Hope you’re doing good now

[@timvanrijn8239]

Sounds ligit

[@glazingdonut5844]

yeah.... my mother has been horrible to me my dad and sister. right now i’m waiting for when i can cut her out. most of my family would probably disapprove immensely, but i can’t take her anymore.

[@glazingdonut5844]

it’s ok to get rid of toxic people, and i hope your life is better because of it

[@BorkShibe]

@@glazingdonut5844 It's hard to do, but things will get better in the long run.

[@Tof221]

Zuko: "I know what you're going to say: 'she's my sister and I should be trying to get along with her...'" Iroh: "No... she's crazy and she needs to go down." (The Chase episode 8 season 2) What shows do you think handle these themes well?

[@bullseye5262]

Christopher Myers that was literally the best scene of AtLA

[@Tof221]

@@bullseye5262 Agreed (though mine is when Iroh confronts Zuko under Lake Laogai). Also, I'm wrong: that was from Bitter Work episode 9.

[@RainyDays2790]

lest also not forget that zuko helped to take down his dad in the end and though he showed him mercy he never forgave him. hell the only reason zuko was forgiven by the gaang was bc he showed he was truly sorry and that took time (and one or 2 field trips, one where someone was almost killed by a certain future wife of the avatar) the best part about avatar the last airbender was how real it was. no one just forgave anyone. they felt real bc they hurt and it wasnt easy. more shows should take points from them. it was a show that treated kids with respect.

[@Tof221]

@@RainyDays2790 totally, and also that in the end the end, the villains who arent redeemed are humiliated and exposed or reduced to what they were: pathetic

[@pokemonlemons]

Even her own mother commented, "What is wrong with her?"

[@freakthecentipede2743]

This moment when you realize that Phineas and Ferb talk about the toxic family issue with the backstory of Doofenshmirtz

[@freakthecentipede2743]

@@Ethan3921 of course it was it's still a cartoon and mostly a comedy

[@duckhugger7692]

And how Linda (the mom) practically made Candice go insane and make it seem that her truths weren't valid to where she started to question if she was crazy when it was just their mom's lack of presence and trust in Candace

[@freakthecentipede2743]

@@duckhugger7692 oh god I never realized that...

[@duckhugger7692]

@@freakthecentipede2743 when I was younger I thought it was funny and I get that it's supposed to be but I've always felt bad for Candace bc she was neglected and needed a reason for attention which is something I can relate to and it's just............so sad

[@freakthecentipede2743]

@@duckhugger7692 it reminds me of Dib from invader Zim, he wants to prove that Zim is a alien to his father who never listen (Also sorry if my english is bad it's not my first langage)

[@Strangebird3000]

Wanna know what's funny? Steven Universe by Rebecca Sugar's own admission was heavily influenced by an anime called Revolutionary Girl Utena. The thing is, the show dealt with familial abuse too, and yet despite all of the allegory and surrealism in it, it dealt with all forms familial abuse much more directly than Steven Universe did despite being aimed at the same age demographic (by Japanese standards anyway). What's more, the show message was the OPPOSITE of what SU's message is. It told kids that you should NEVER be imprisoned by you family or take their abuse. If they hurt you and you can't help them, your own happiness and safety should come first. For a culture where family ties is so important, to the point where orphans and bastard children are discriminated against for not having such ties and it's encouraged to just blindly obey your family and take their mistreatment, this was truly revolutionary and progressive! How the hell can Sugar claim to be such a huge fan of Utena and yet fail to comprehend one of the core themes that made it so great?!

[@tifforo1]

At least they had Lapis literally escape from imprisonment in a bad relationship with Jasper.

[@tifforo1]

@ Jasper was doing things that made her the equivalent of a rapist, Dr. Frankenstein, and a kidnapper all at once. Lapis put herself in imprisonment in order to keep Jasper from carrying out the mission that Peridot, and Lapis, and Pink Diamond, and the quartz army that Jasper was a part of, were all assigned to, which was the destruction of earth. But yeah, she voluntarily agreed to be the jailer for someone who desperately needed to be jailed.

[@colbaltmind5696]

It's because sugar can't read beyond a surface level and was too concerned wacking off to the pretty underage anime characters rather than absorbing the message directly

[@Neville60001]

' *_How the hell can Sugar claim to be such a huge fan of Utena and yet fail to comprehend one of the core themes that made it so great_* ?! ' Answer: because Sugar is a mediocre writer whose character creation & shitty writing is not only excused by the wider society and the LGBT community, but is celebrated as being the greatest ever by said society (and the latter-mentioned community) without any criticism ever.

[@HeyyitsYuki]

respectful analysis.. 100% agree

[@lara1413]

Can we please give a shout-out to Avatar the last Airbender, that projected a broken royal fire nation family? An abusive father who isn't turned good in the end but instead held accountable for the crimes he did, abandoned by the son who wanted nothing more than to be Loved by him in the beginning, who still managed to see that his father, although he is "family", is a piece of shit who should've been killed. Avatar did it right. Azula, in contrast, who held on to her father, is manipulated, gaslighted and in the end even lost her mind due to her father's lack of respect, appreciation and love. His abuse is not a minor plot point, it's important for all the main characters and there is no such thing as forced forgiveness. Avatar did it right, what a show. A lot of writers could learn from that.

[@half-bakedthot]

Lar A this!!! plus they made azula a complex character who you felt bad for because of the nature of her upbringing but didn’t redeem her and rather held her accountable for the abhorrent choices she made!! like yes life is complicated relationships are nuanced but abuse should never be tolerated or excused for any reason and we should strive to surround ourselves exclusively with people who support our growth and mental health (and whose ideas don’t endanger those around us)

[@noonebossesthegarnet2890]

I aspire to have talents like the writers of Avatar.

[@ahstiasummers5583]

Azula was a tragic villain, a villain who was the way they were because of unfortunate circumstances that were out of their control. However tragic their backstory though, such a villain still must be defeated because their tragic past does not magically erase their crimes against others. Tragic villains are not always redeemable villains, and ATLA managed that amazingly

[@TheAnimationGirl]

My mom was an abusive alcoholic and died last year. I had to come to terms with the fact that I felt nothing but relief when that happened. It’s like the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders. And whenever someone says to me “don’t say that, she loved you really. It was just the alcohol”. ??????? I get so PISSED. Like I’m getting fired up just writing it. No one and I mean NO ONE understands an abused child’s pain but seems to know all the answers. Makes me so mad

[@doelroarpa3489]

People only focus on alcohol like it keeps you from controlling your actions. They ignore that your choose to drink

[@randompromises1038]

@@doelroarpa3489 a lot of people, my abuser included, would say that my abuser only hurt me because of unhealthy influences. like, um, no. they still did bad shit, it doesn't matter if they were sober or not high. why can't people understand that?

[@madelinegesquiere7855]

I don't understand why people think you must love and forgive your family no matter what. You couldn't imagine feeling that way towards your actually decent family? Good for you, but our situations are NOT comparable. Being manipulated, bullied, abused, and put down are nothing like having a truly loving family. If I don't have to forgive and make up with my school bully. I shouldn't have to make up with the one at home.

[@jovindsouza3407]

I hope you slapped the person who told you that.

[@sallywinston5305]

Your response to whoever said that should have been "if she truly loved me, she would have picked me over the alcohol" or "oh yeah, I got stuck with a mom who became abusive while drunk, while others become all flirty and giggly while drunk. I guess my mom got the wrong batch of alcohol, huh?".

[@ChrisLShack1998]

You know. All this talk about subtlety reminds of why I still like Sesame Street. When it came to Mr. Hooper's death, they didn't sugarcoat it. They just outright said it. And because of that, it allowed kids to understand why it's okay to be sad. They did the same thing when they introduced Julia, a character who has Autism. It helped the audience to understand how to act around those who are autistic. To me, subtlety is just a stupid way to sugarcoat major subjects that need more attention.

[@Quinntus79]

I think Mr. Rogers did something similar when talking about the assassination of Robert Kennedy. Kids can handle a whole range of subjects if you present it in the right way for the age group.

[@ChrisLShack1998]

@@Quinntus79 Exactly. Kids shouldn't be talked down to. It's not right.

[@Quinntus79]

@@ChrisLShack1998 I want to be a high school history teacher. I know there are going to be a lot of uncomfortable subjects to cover, but people need to hear it.

[@glamethyst9144]

That must be why Steven Universe’s creator’s last name is Sugar, because she sugarcoats everything.

[@josiefoote3273]

I always found Avatar’s finale to be a prime example on how just “talking it out” doesn’t work. Zuko tries not to hurt Azula, but recognizes very quickly that fighting Azula is the only option and talking to her like a sane person wouldn’t work in that instance. Was she mentally unstable? Yes. However, in my experience most abusive individuals are anyways. It’s fine to cut ties with those closest to you. Don’t fall back into an abusive relationship just because they’re your family. It’s not selfish to look out for your mental health.

[@harp-692]

This is the problem and that's why Steven lost it

[@truffeltroll6668]

+ they can't talk the fire lord out of mass murder, they turn him into a potato instead

[@xiabluecheng]

Blood may be thicker than water, but that makes it easier to drown in.

[@mysticmoon1262]

That is one of the best things I've ever read. I love it.

[@artisticcannibalism1350]

"Blood is thicker than water," was shorthand for "The blood of the Covenat is thicker than the water of a Mother's Womb." In other word the orginal saying meant the Exact opposite of what people think it means.

[@melonieashway4189]

The denser a liquid is, the more bouyant things in it will be. So then you would float in blood, therefore not drowning

[@Jacob_G9]

OHHHH, i like that.

[@Mami__halo]

Holy shit that’s deep, no pun intended

[@bonnie7721]

Thank you for defending people cutting themselves from abusive parents. A couple months ago I moved out of my abusive father's house and I've constantly had the feeling that I should feel bad. Thank you for saying that you don't have to forgive them.

[@Marvelfanatic3658]

Ik this comment is 3 years old, but I hope you're doing better now.

[@bonnie7721]

@@Marvelfanatic3658 I never expected a response to this comment but thank you, I'm doing much better now

[@Marvelfanatic3658]

@@bonnie7721 np ^^ and I'm glad your doing better 👍🏿

[@EyeOfLyger]

Lily, once again forcing me to be a better writer by making me ask hard questions about my writing.

[@SunnasChariot]

King Lyger Me, too

[@DoormanSoorman]

Same, especially since writing isn't my strength

[@scp--297]

Same, and even helped me become a better person. I love those videos.

[@notcharmander9606]

“You’ll be just as bad as the bad guys!” If being just as bad as the bad guys will save some lives, then I don’t mind Sugar I mean Steven.

[@maryudomah4387]

If that’s all it takes to be seen as a bad guy, I want to be a super villain.

[@shmekelfreckles8157]

NOT Charmander what about Batman?

[@mysticmoon1262]

@@shmekelfreckles8157 Batman is problematic himself. Why wouldn't you kill the person who constantly kills people? The only reason he doesn't is because the writers wanted the Joker to be a reoccurring villain.

[@shmekelfreckles8157]

LunaGirl 6085 that’s true. But overall I think Batman’s morality is explained very well. He’s insane, but not mad enough to let himself go. He knows that if he starts killing people he’ll just become one of them, worse than them even.

[@mysticmoon1262]

@@shmekelfreckles8157 Then maybe he should see a therapist instead of dressing up and punching people until they stop moving (which by the way, has a high likelihood of killing the person).

[@mx9226]

I liked Steven Universe but seeing White Diamond reminded me of my dad. I won't go into detail but he was horrible to me, my mother, and my brother. My brother and I absolutely hate him and have cut him from our lives. Mom actually is the one asking us to forgive him for "our sake". We always tell her that is dumb and we won't do it.

[@mysticmoon1262]

I'm glad you and your brother are standing up for yourselves. My step-mother was the same to me except instead of my dad it was my oldest step-brother. I won't forgive him, he hasn't earned it.

[@SunnasChariot]

That’s the thing; it’s NOT for YOUR ‘sake’.

[@colbaltmind5696]

M X Good for you. That’s the smart decision. Keep telling your mom she’s being stupid and that he doesn’t deserve forgiveness, and that to try to force you to forgive him is to ignore your and your brother’s suffering that he inflicted on you.

[@flavortown6280]

More power to you man

[@alexismateo4320]

Man you're lucky. My stupid "sister" doesn't even see or get how terrible our parents are in fact my pseudo sister isn't much better than my pseudo parents I'd even say.

[@WingedRose96]

i've been watching Troll Hunters with a friend recently and the troll Arrrg (i think that's how you spell it) is revealed early on to be a non-violent pacifist because of a long history of violence that he regrets. but there was a scene where the protagonist's best friend Toby was about to be attacked and killed by... i think it was a goblin? but Arrrg stepped in and killed the goblin saving Toby in the process. this scene is what came to mind while hearing your conclusion because even though Toby feels bad that Arrrg went back on his oath of pacifism to save him, Arrrg simply smiles and without any hesitation claims that Toby's life is more important. i loved that scene so much because just like you're point, sometimes it's okay to use violence. sometimes it's out right necessary when you have higher stakes! i'd rather have a character that tries to be non-violent and only uses violence when absolutely necessary than this holier than thou ignorant moral high ground Steven Universe is trying to promote. amazing and thought provoking work as always Lily! lots of love!

[@Stanley557]

I was hoping Steven Universe was gonna pull the "you can't make friends with everyone" card back when Jasper was the main villain. I've barely kept up with the show since and I knew they were gonna talk it out with white diamond. I hate how right I was

[@kpopfan246]

There's some speculation that the villain in the SU movie will be irredeemable, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[@greendecepticon6148]

@@kpopfan246 I agree. If they redeem the diamonds they will redeem anyone at this point.

[@tifforo1]

The problem is that Steven is Jesus and therefore cannot declare any living person to be irredeemable, even if dealing with their potential redemption caused him suffering. That's not necessarily a reasonable burden for a real child to face. Jasper is still hostile to everyone and doesn't listen to talking, even as of Steven Universe Future.

[@Finn_the_Cat]

​@kpopfan246 you probably already know this but you were right to not hold your breath, Spinel was another villain that had pretty extreme mental scarring and was redeemed as such, meaning the only villains that were not redeemed were eyeball ruby and aquamarine, which is funny because Spinel just spent most of the movie just, there, you could probably cut her as a non villain out entirely and lose nothing, she's only there for the opening fight and she sings Other Friends and Steven singing the song Change. That one line Spinel had during it though was her saying: you can't just fix everything by singing some stupid song. That might be a paraphrase but it's a sentence the show as a whole should've heeded more, makes sense they didn't since it's coming from the movies villain

[@josephklassen8743]

I used to like Steven Universe, I really did. I loved the artwork, the concept, and the world they were set in. But I got absolutely sick of it every single time they save the "bad guy" White diamond didn't deserve to be redeemed, if you can even call that a redemption. I was also tired of the steven bombs, that probably aided in me falling out. The human zoo was more than uncomfortable, and unnecessary.

[@tifforo1]

Still better than Yu-Gi-Oh redeeming Dartz. That guy was separated from his family for a DAMN good reason and laughed about imprisoning millions of souls, and they have the gall to call him a "great dad" at the end of the season.

[@tappyokamaniok210]

It's not a metaphor it's an excuse... an excuse of a show...

[@vellannounce]

Tappyoka Maniok Nice burn

[@seldomstudios6351]

*OOOOOOOOOOOOH!!*

[@cattledogandstaffy]

As someone who grew up in an abusive household...thank you, Lily. I am so sick of being told that my abusers deserve forgiveness. I spent years thinking I was a horrible person because I couldn't and wouldn't forgive them. Thank you

[@mamabear1394]

My dad expects me to forgive my granny after she told my mom to move from my sister's death, threatened to have me kicked out of the family for being bisexual, ruined my garden and bedroom and killed my dog. Yeah not gonna happen

[@starwarswizard5841]

I hope you're doing ok after all of that.

[@maskedpanda8502]

As someone who writes for fun-fanfiction, sue me-, even at my non-professional level, that you can tell when a "writer" has screwed up and should've either gotten outside help or simply given up. There is a sweet spot if you want to redeem a character, which is when you have enough to need to redeem them, but not enough that they are irredeemable. The issue is that these people do not bother to try and hit this point, so they force it into places they do not need to be-Diamonds, however many ponies Twilight has redeemed, and whatever else that comes to your mind-. This is why sane fanfic creators who want to write a character that is beyond redeemable in canon will create an AU and/or push the time the story is set back before they became irredeemable. They also will use common sense and get rid of certain things which made them irredeemable in the first place. This isn't rocket science, it's called being a human being with a moral compass. Yet you'd think it was by the drastic decline in quality media has suffered. There is a reason fanfic is growing and it's simple issues such as this. I know not all fanfic is like this or even the majority, but there is a growing chunk of fanfic writers who are rivaling these "professionals" because we actually respect the craft and the material, and know when we screwed up and fix it or simply make sure never to get ourselves in that position. I know I am not a professional, and that everything I say comes from an inexperienced eye. But it doesn't take a professional chef to tell when a dish is not properly cooked. Note to professional writers: if a single fanfic writer can easily rip you a new hole with a characters arc then you messed up. Now if a fanfic writer can write your character better than you-note, a ton at once when it comes to this one-, or can take something within the canon and flip a character on its head, and make complete sense in-universe, then you ROYALLY messed up and should just not mess with that type of writing.

[@SpaceGirlLaika]

This is, honestly, my favorite comment in the whole world. I feel like people underestimate fanfictions a lot! I have more than 100 books in my house(all fiction/fantasy), but a few years ago, I've started to turn into fanfics! And my friends simply don't believe me when I say that there's WAY more content and interesting stuff insidd fanmade stories! Hell, a lot of my favourite TV shows and comics have recently disapointed me.. But then there's these amazing stories with way more insight, more honesty, and that, not only respect the characters but the READERS(honestly, I feel like mostly TV shows think that the viewer is dumb) and I just think "How come people that are paid to write this can mess this up so badly?" Also, sorry if I said something wrong! English is not my first language!

[@AlgaeNymph]

I've noticed this as well. Fan fiction is this pro-quality work that's the best reason to get into a fandom. Meanwhile, the mainstream canon keeps incorporating every old fanfic cliche that's been criticized into the ground.

[@lydiat8686]

Ze¹

[@lunaangeleclipse9745]

Honestly there are a lot of fandoms that are propped up massively by passionate fanfic writers trying their hardest to make the terrible parts of their fave tv show/book/movie etc into something serviceable. Huge respect to those fans who do miles better than professional writers.

[@clintonsharpe9242]

I actually hated that meg went back to "being the lightning rod" for all their bullshite

[@skittyhugs7457]

Question: who's the Meg you're referring to?

[@Carolina-pr2ug]

It's really gross when people start telling the victim 'but you have to love them, they are your family!' instead of the abusers 🙄 like they wouldn't be so abusive if they just loved their children

[@TiffanyRay]

its so sick and disgusting

[@2shastaboy]

I really needed to hear the part about not being obligated to your family. I have been through an incredibly tough time with my family, and while I won’t say what they did I will say I now have PTSD. My parents were trying to get me to forgive them even though they did awful things to me and refused to apologize or even acknowledge what had happened. I asked them why I needed to forgive them if they were just going to treat me like shit, and my parents responded by saying they’re family and putting in therapy saying this kind of behavior wasn’t normal. My family are still forcing me on good terms, knowing that doing so makes me have panic attacks, so hearing that don’t need to be attached to them and not being told that I’m overreacting is liberating. I am really happy to hear that message from you Lily. Thank you so much.

[@beeziebubs2756]

Okay but did Garnet actually forgive Pearl? Better yet, did she get the chance to forgive Pearl? Because rewatching that scene where they’re both stuck in the shrinking room, the conversation starts with Pearl confessing how weak she feels, how she needed to fuse with Garnet to feel strong, and how she just couldn’t help herself. Their conversation didn’t conclude with an apology. It’s the equivalent of that random dude in your friend group smacking your ass and explaining his reasoning for doing so with, “You’re just so sexy, I couldn’t help myself,” and being gaslit by everyone into forgiving him because they’re uncomfortable with the tension. So basically, Sugar was so wrapped up in writing her metaphor and upping the stakes, she wrote a victim having to comfort her rapist instead of the smart, meaningful conversation about weakness and forgiveness she thought it was.

[@noriakikakyoin4412]

I wish more people understood that you don't need to forgive your families. I'm still stuck with an abusive family but, once I'm able to get out, I'm never contacting them again. Everyone I've told this to has told me that "You're being over-dramatic." or "You need to move on, hon." It made me really angry because, no one should be forced to say sorry to someone who hurt them. I've been told all my life that my emotions don't matter. My well being doesn't matter. My mental illness can be put to the side. It's amazing how some people are allowed to have custody of children. I also wanted to thank you. You're actually the one who helped me realize that my family was abusive and horrible to me. You really inspired me with my writing and I really enjoy your content. You've helped alot more people than you know and you're amazing. Thank you, Lily.

[@mysticmoon1262]

I hope you are able to get away from them soon. You're definitely not being over dramatic by never wanting them around.

[@jamiethomas3904]

This may sound crazy but remember how in HTTYD Hiccup and Toothless brought down the Red Death? The Dragon Queen and Drago were both way too dangerous power hungry and violent to be reasoned with. Even though Hiccup tried to do so with Drago we all know how that ended. And the Red Death was clearly responsible for causing the 300 year clashing between vikings and dragons. She was just one of the most perfect true villains of any franchise we've ever seen. Wish i could say the same for the Diamonds in SU though. Don't worry guys i've taken the diamonds into my own GEM TITANS series and i'm making them better characters. Even Greater villains like Quartzessa who can convert any gem that's different into being a rose quartz like herself, and RED DIAMOND who can absorb other gems. And of course, Connie Razer Maheswaran.

[@user-dh1un9lk9f]

See, I like gravity falls because the big bad is a literal demon and is never depicted as sympathetically. The supernatural villains that cross the moral event horizon are all horrible and are punched in the face.

[@miguelruiz4613]

Except Mabel and she's quite controlling (mostly of dipper)

[@truffeltroll6668]

Oh god, don't visit deviant art

[@spoopyghost2683]

Lily evokes such an aura of authority I can't help but listen The believes she holds align with my main philosophy of justice And the lessons she taught me are far more valuable than any show I've seen All these and more are the reasons I am a sub to Lily Godspeed to all you magnificent basturds

[@Worthless1010]

She's single-handedly forced me to re-evaluate my lax philosophy on forgiveness.

[@asterling4]

When I first watched the Sardonyx episodes, I didn't totally get the metaphor for sexual assault. I was 14 or 15 at the time, I think, and the arc made me uncomfortable but I kinda just blew it off and kept watching. But now, a few years later, I get what it was saying, and I hate it so much because I've since been sexually assaulted. And I get why you yell about stuff the way you do, because it hurts and it makes me so freaking angry to recognize myself in Garnet's pain and uncertainty and then see her forced to make nice with the person who used her. AND THEN TO HAVE THEM TOTALLY IGNORE THE PERMANENT DAMAGE THAT LEAVES?? They wrapped it up in five episodes and forgot it ever happened, and it feels like a slap in the face to every sexual assault survivor out there. So yeah. KEEP YELLING, LILY. And thank you so much for always calling the bullshit that everyone else is too complacent to see. Love you and your work so much!!

[@BlackDiamond2718]

The thing is that fusion being a metaphor for sex was pretty obvious but I was oblivious because i got deep into the show. And now I pay for that ignorance. It was already clear when pearl was covering his eyes, the dancing, and when she goes into her legs. Plus the compatibility between people. But the result is extremely disturbing when you notice that pedophilia, abuse, and forgiveness were all existent in the worst possible ways.

[@BlackDiamond2718]

Tamia Gayle if you say so

[@jamiethomas3904]

I think that you'll be glad to know that there's no gem-fusing allowed in my Gem 💎Titans Franchise. There are more themes of hero and villain With the GEM💎TITANS themselves being more like the Autobots, and the crystal gems are the Decepticons, conquering planets ALONGSIDE THE DIAMONDS'S GRAND GALAXY AUTHORITIES, THE PLANET MINERAL CITY'S GOVERNMENTS. Capis; There've been a lotta crystal gem sightings in Egypt. Coral Garnet Prime; Crystal Gem Alert! Capis; Protect from all Crystal Gem forces! Don't let them hurt anyone!

[@jamiethomas3904]

@@BlackDiamond2718 Rebecca Sugar's GOTTA be somewhat evil for promoting that stuff!

[@BlackDiamond2718]

@@jamiethomas3904 GOTTA? I dont remember that.

[@bouletterose9643]

"sometimes violence is the answer" thank you ! As nice as the whole "talking with your abuser/bully to sort things out" could be if we lived in a care bear world, the thing is, talking will never work with someone who refuse to listen. Using violence to solve a problem that just couldn't be resolve otherwise doesn't make you a bad person. You don't always have to forgive and forget everyone, that's a lesson that should be teached more often to kids.

[@esper6683]

Lily calling out liberals and performative allies is my kink

[@jacklesc3133]

'Sometimes violence is the answer because sometimes people just don't listen.' This episode really helped me with both writing and real-life situations. Thank you Lily.

[@davalious5107]

Personally I draw a line between "Family" and "Relations". Your family are the people who love and support you while your relations are just people that share a family tree with you and can take a tall dive to a short stop. As for neutral relatives (like the kind you see maybe once a year at family reunions) I personally put them under family since they haven't done anything to earn my ire.

[@ArtemisMoon90]

This is why I love the full phrase that "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" meaning the people you choose as family is a stronger bond than those you are genetically related to.

[@jeremieh5009]

Exactly!

[@Kaizykat]

As someone also abused by their parents, you are so on point that it isn't even funny. I was content to ignore a lot of SU's bull because I liked the show. But we get to this and the rest of its magic was just gone. I couldn't even really even enjoy the episode because of this whole lesson. You know what going to your parents and trying to "talk it out" got me? Another fight. Gaslighting galore. Treats of violence. Being called vile names. Y'know, _abuse._ And this is when I came to them as an adult! I feel so badly for the poor kid who's going to try to apply this lesson to their parents!

[@CC-jg1cp]

this idea that forgiveness isn’t always the answer is seen a little in undertale, where even after forgiving literally every npc in the game a character tells you that the real world isn’t like this and that unforgivable people exist, but it’s WAY more prominent in the companion game. the main villain of deltarune is straight up an abusive dad, no metaphors, and he’s literally *impossible* to defeat with kindness. there’s even a scene where one character explicitly tries to make nice with him and he betrays them before his whole kingdom comes to overthrow him for being an asshole, so it seems like the creator wanted to make sure he wasn’t sending out the message that forgiveness is the automatic solution. when i played undertale i was satisfied with the story, but did want to see more of that theme it brought up at the very end, so i’m glad lily brought this issue up and hopefully made some creators in the audience reconsider how they write forgiveness like damn

[@anselravenhart4753]

Also, in the Genocide route, Sans "forgives" you, but the moment you let your guard down, he murders you and says, "If you're really our friend, don't ever come back."

[@castielcrews1496]

As a teenager who has been emotionally abused and just generally disrespected by multiple blood related family members including my 'parents', I hate it when anyone tries to tell me to "forgive them" or say "But they love you". I have been gaslighted for years on the toxic excuse of "But they love you" and it has caused my mental health, self worth, and perspective on others to crumble. If it wasn't for Lily's videos or my actual family (which is made up of friends) then I would have slipped into outer abusive relationships ,or would be dead by now. Because of the abuse I can't function like a well adjusted person, I can't talk or order or ask for basic needs because of said abuse. I am also LGBT and have a small dose of internalizing homophobia (and other issues) because of the toxic, unsupportive, "but I love you" environment I was raised in. And the messed up part is objectively my "family" looks normal which is why it irritates me so when dumbass writers feel the need to compare abusive family members to the biggest *fantasy* extremes and not to the realistic silent killers they can be. In short, fuck anyone that tells you to "get over and forgive" on any basis, including ones of "love and forgiveness".

[@castielcrews1496]

P.S. Thank you Lily for your continued amazing work. You've helped me hone my analysis interest into concrete thoughts and provoking think pieces which have, intern helped me with my writing! I owe you a mega cup of coffee for all the insight and help your videos and humor has given me. Thank you!!

[@bvnnybrainz]

i did not expect to start crying upon the reassurance of hey it’s ok to leave behind an abusive/toxic family and find a new one like wow i really needed to hear that and didn’t even realize,,

[@catch3588]

This is why I dropped SU like 2 years ago, after that Bismuth episode and I saw where their priorities were in terms of who's getting the redemption arc and who isnt, I knew SU wasn't the show for me.

[@robotrightsactivist]

A L same, I haven’t watched a single episode since the Bismuth episode. People keep making excuses for characters behavior when it’s the goddamn WRITERS who are culpable

[@jamiethomas3904]

It's not the show for anyone except Rebecca Sugar that's for sure!

[@zitalee2]

“I AM AN ABSTRACT CONCEPT”~ White Diamond

[@mikailaturkleson7472]

I remember actually sympathizing with Pearl during the Sardonyx arc. Jesus fuck 2015 me was problematic.

[@TrueBlueProd]

This one was powerful, this touched me on a very personal level, especially the ending

[@sharpwingGmod]

It's the thing, we kind of call that the Hero trait. It's used in story telling. Try to save the day no matter how wrong people think you might be, because if you don't, you have to be willing to assume that no one else will and the worst possible thing may happen. You have to be willing to accept that you can't save everyone, but understand that if you don't try the number WILL BE ZERO.

[@lukasbjornendermann9944]

The Sharpwing Legion true but sometimes the story is bad or good it depends on how the good the writer is but you are right

[@sharpwingGmod]

@@ravenfrancis1476 Where did I say that?

[@nonyabizness956]

T H A N K Y O U I fell out of love with Steven Universe a long time ago but this forgiving white diamond arc pushed me off the edge into really hating what its become. Maybe it was never good, but I had so much hope for it :/

[@nia2602]

As someone going through the process of cutting an abusive father out of my life and struggling with feelings of 'obligation', this means the world to me. Thank you, Lily. I needed to hear this.

[@liaaaaaaa]

Unconditional forgiveness is one of the most uncomfortable modern themes for me as a long time child abuse survivor who has yet to find an ounce of "forgiveness" for my abuser. As a child when I would watch shows with these themes it would lead to me feeling guilty and less "mature" or "healthy" than others who could just magically forgive someone who abuses them. Now as an adult I realize I was the one making the healthy choice for myself and the people who do unconditionally forgive their abusers are the ones with a maturity issue. Thanks so much for talking about this publicly, it is so important that this message be purged from children's tv.

[@alvindo4381]

I have been struggling with my own family as well. My mother is very homophobic, being upset for the rest of the day after discovering about my cousin being gay. And im also gay. My siblings know (i think, i don't remember) my cousins know, my friends know, but my parents and the rest of the family, i e, uncles and aunts, don't. Im certain that if i were to come out, id be disowned and potentially hospitalized if my mother found out about my sexuality. However, being 17 years old, still in highschool, and no job, forces me to stay with her. But, after having little to no interactions with her, being commands and favours, i don't have any connection to her. My dad, meanwhile, would probably be upset, but wouldn't attack. Yet, most of my life he's been at work and nothing else, working 80 plus hours a week. I don't have any emotional connections to either of them but my siblings expect me to help them regardless. Hearing about how cutting out people who are abusive, even if they're family, only validated my beliefs in that aspect. I don't expect to talk to them after moving out nor do i expect to see them often. Thank you for reaffirming my morals as valid

[@donutdog1937]

That highschool au you were talking about is basically the plot to all the persona games

[@singularity1130]

Core problem with: Forgiveness at any cost. What happens when you run out of heroes to throw at the problem? Evil prevails by absentia.

[@doeydays1490]

The actual, full metaphor of "blood is thicker than water" is "blood spilled in battle is thicker than the water of the womb." People just never hear the full saying, and therefore get the wrong idea.

[@Ratiosu539]

I know this is an old comment but that's not true. That was made up by some religipus people and a source has never been found.

[@onemorepancake2013]

This video ment a lot to me, thankyou so much. My mother is mentally abusive to me because im transgender and you saying what you said really helped me. So thankyou

[@jersstuff3458]

Mob Psycho 100. Just... Mob Psycho 100. A show that does all these things right and more

[@miguelmendoza095]

I love that show. it is quickly becoming my favorite action series for both its stunning visuals and all too real storytelling and characters. And the OP? Total.Banger.

[@barrettbirks1058]

Lily doesn't watch Anime

[@miguelruiz4613]

Well she's missing out on some good shows

[@RoyalSniz]

God the amount of times my mother baffled every time I told her I was never going back once out of the house. "I'm your mother I'm supposed to be there." No. Yeah I came out of your organs. Doesn't I'm some how your slave because we're blood related. That I have to be around you. If someone abuses you you have every right to leave and never come back. No matter who they are.

[@LyraLyraPantsOnFyra]

"an eye for and eye makes the whole world blind" but "an eye for shit-all puts you at a distinct disadvantage during perception checks and saving throws"

[@mysticmoon1262]

I was constantly being told that I didn't look good in the clothes I liked and that I had "a little too much belly" by my step-mother. And I seemed to be the only one she did that to. I was constantly being told that I was supposed to be more mature than my older step-sibliings. I think, however, that the worst thing she did was trying to force me to forgive my oldest step-brother after he sexually abused me for years because "she wants all of [her] family at family reunions". I'm so glad to hear people telling me that it's fine, and even possibly healthy, for me to not forgive them. It makes me feel a lot less like a selfish asshole.

[@LuxVertas]

oh, something interesting about forgiveness: Bojack Horseman had an episode when Bojack wanted to apologize to a friend he figuratively stabbed in the back. He did his apology, and his ex-friend rejected it. I brought this up on Reddit a while ago about "great TV scenes" someone Chimed in with "Forgiveness isn't for the Victim, it's for the perpetrator."

[@NukeIzka102]

People just love to go into extremes like "never ever hurt anybody" or "KILL EVERYONE" But life is miserable when it is full of extremes, easier but it's like being blind and deaf your whole life

[@tonyhernandez582]

Someone call me out if this is too stupid, but aren't metaphors supposed to represent abstract things that are hard to put a real template on? Like internal conflicts or things that are too big for the scope of literal description.

[@pkmnherofan22]

The whole point about not needing to use metaphor to portray a dysfunctional family is even more effective now that Encanto has come out and has done handled the Dysfunctional Family story five hundred thousand times better than Steven Universe ever did

[@taraireland7828]

God bless the salt Queen

[@aislynncarpenter701]

I've cut out an abusive family member. I have forgiven her, and honestly it has helped me work through my own anger. I wouldn't tell an abuse victim that they HAVE to forgive. But I wouldn't tell them not to if they feel that letting go will help them. That said, forgiveness does not mean I will let her continue to hurt me. She's out of my life now. I've let go of my resentment but that doesn't mean I'm going to put myself back in the same situation.

[@violetsphone6979]

Just learned what cyanosil was. That was very clever reference Lily. Also a very appropriate one.

[@anselmo2990]

Why do i love Lili's critical, and unfiltered and rosetinted glass-less way of talking?

[@illusiveaxeman9164]

ngl this actually helped me break down the mentality I've been raised with that 'forgive and forget' mentality and struggled to deal with it towards my toxic parents and this... It's actually kind of comforting and reassuring to hear someone say "you do not owe forgiveness to your parents."

[@komi-sanmustbeprotected5665]

Sorry this isn’t too relevant to the abuse and family themes but I wanted to say that the idea that the bad guy can always be talked down and can always be forgiven because the protagonist is apparently Jesus 2 electric boogaloo always brings me back to when Gohan first went SSJ2 because he finally realised not everyone can be reasoned with and in the words of Android 16 “you are allowed to fight on the side of justice” and it says something when a show that originally aired in 1989 can get this right and most can’t, cell wasn’t secretly a scared boy with daddy issues that needed a hug he was a monster that wanted a good fight and happily tortured a child and killed countless people to get it, hell the end of the Frieza fight shows that mercy can and sometimes will be thrown back in your face.

[@gonzoengineering4894]

Those moments are really good, and the moments that stuck with me the most. Undercut only by the other big moment that stuck with me: How stupid it was to let Vegeta just go, and then have that go consequence free when he randomly becomes a protagonist without even an attempt at any kind of redemption. Yes I know about the self destruct scene nerds, suddenly having parental instincts doesn't really balance out the multiple on screen acts of genocide.

[@joelss22]

@@gonzoengineering4894 I’m not very brushed up on my Dragon Ball knowledge but wasn’t that kind of the point of Dragon Ball Z? Like in the beginning Piccolo and Goku have to put aside their feuding to stop the Saiyan survivors. Vegeta and the Dragon Ball gang have to put their quarrel on hold when on Namek because fighting will weaken everyone making it that much easier for Frieza to kill them all. Vegeta becomes less and less of a threat because the characters the Dragon Ball crew fight against become more and more powerful.

[@pubby1527]

"Its your family?" So what? As someone who is currently in an abusive situation that I am unable to escape from, the abusers being my aunt, who has custody of me, and my brother - I don't really care dude. You think just because I'm related to these two undercooked dumplings I'm going to love and respect them even though they've hurt me so many times? Come on Rebecca. It doesn't matter if you feel like you just want a happy ending and a happy go lucky redemption arc. Abuse is still abuse and can literally break a person. So many young people watch your show and it's just not a good idea to basically tell them that its okay if their parents/gaurdians abuse them because they're their caretakers? Nah chief, you can't do that.

[@elton2964]

All I want to say is, thank you I really need to hear that. ‘Just forgive them” will never work . Parent or not we are people we deserve freedom

[@arielcahn7728]

"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb"

[@racbri12]

I know this video focuses on animation, but I just wanted to point out that a good example of a redemption arc is present in one kid's show, Andi Mack. TJ's character was horrible, but he slowly progresses, changes, apologizes, and becomes one of the best characters in the show. His transformation actually parallels another character, Kira, who also starts as a mean person, does not change, and is not just 'forgiven'. It's got its problems, but Andi Mack has a lot of wonderful and well done aspects, so I recommend giving it a shot!

[@vojtechhykys1466]

I would rather die then forgive to someone that didn't atone.

[@johnparks5133]

thank you for talking about the truths in how writers need to cut the bs and actually learn to be good at writing.

[@tinywitch8677]

Thank you so much Lily I really needed to hear this. I was emotionally abused by my father and treated like garbage/gaslighted by his new family and made to feel guilty for cutting them out of my life.

[@honeynutfemios5584]

This was very much a relief you covered this. I await your next video on the subject of 'cartoonists not controlling themselves' (I'm not one to talk by the by). In the meantime, I don't really know why this spoke to me right away but it makes me feel warm and fuzzy I am not the only one that has thought that 'love your family no matter what' mentality was absolutely stupid. I had conservatives in my paternal family that treated my Dad condescendingly and I am not surprised that after my great grandmother died that they had a fallout with him. We were better people for not speaking with them again.

[@Wlyekat]

This is one of those episodes of glass of water that really reminds me that I’ve grown up listening to Lily. And being able to understand the points she’s making is oddly humbling. They’re words that need to be said I believe. And I’m glad that I can be able to stand tall, knowing this advice, and tell my abusive family members to gladly fuck right off.

[@kokichiyoursupremeleader.1713]

Forgiveness. It’s a great thing In some cases Other cases you shouldn’t forgive people. Small cases like. Your friend accidentally breaks something. Forgiveness Your friend is abusive and manipulative towards you. One. They’re not your friend. Two: no forgiveness until they do something that’s worth forgiveness.

[@brendancorey7831]

I thought the war was started because Pink diamond decided faking a shattering was a good idea to run away? Sorta like faking a suicide to run away?

[@forltanchannel2359]

Reading the description I've just realised that possibly the one hundredth episode of glass of water could be about Pervy old animater men drooling over fictional cartoon kids......EwwWwww

[@Sillvasuffa]

The forgive everyone thing was explained to be a terrible idea in Avatar the Last Airbender. Evertime I see it now I just look back on that and say "wat da faq haplenned?"

[@Barga6464]

Something about hearing these thoughts outloud makes me think that maybe the world isn't going to hell as fast as possible. Because your right. The right answer isn't always a comfortable one

[@jordanortiz9196]

You are the 1st person to tell me that it's okay for me to want to distance myself from an abusive family member, and I thank you for it

[@beowulfandstuff5547]

Thank you Lily for bringing this up about abuse.

[@jlinus7251]

I'm still doing fanfiction. The weirder things mashed together the BETTER!

[@devinlee3462]

As someone who was abused as a child... Thank you for this. This video is perfect. I had to deal with this stupid "you HAVE to forgive them, they're your FAMILY!" BS for years now. Not only that, even my therapist spent that time telling me I HAD to forgive my abusive parent. I don't. I didn't. No apology, no remorse, no consequences... Why would I just randomly forgive?

[@lydfangirl118]

Talking about my abusive mother with my therapist, he told me that I should forgive her, because that makes me the bigger person. And that wanting an apology would bring me more hurt because I more then likely would not get it. Hearing him say that made me feel, unhappy and sad. That even if I did deserve an apology, I wouldn't get it so I shouldn't ask for one. But hearing you talk about it, that I don't have to forgive my mom, it makes me feel better and makes me feel like I deserve that apology for all her years of abuse and putting me into her own bad situations. Usually I agree with him and what he says but his advice on this subject just kind of rubbed me the wrong way, so thank you for making this video Lily.

[@keondramcintyre3444]

I can't express enough in anything who I appreciate you teaching us about stuff like this. We think you, and you are the strongest woman next to my mom!😶

[@snowcraft-d3d]

Random person: "Lilly is a blood thirsty psychopath!" Me, a normal person: "Lol, no."

[@brandeningram5274]

OH MY GOD!!!! MY ASK IS IN THE VIDEO. It's not in a super positive sense but I'm gonna act like it is. -New Writer who has learned a lot

[@seraph3m]

11:30 *BOY* Am I excited for that episode!

[@digimsgpkmn]

Thank you for sharing your perspective on how it is wrong to be forced to forgive abusers just because they are family. It really is something I personally wished was not megaphoned into my head nor other kids for so long

[@flufflewarrior]

Can you even consider someone as family when they abuse you? These people might be family by blood, but I think family is more then being related.

[@223muey]

“Kim and Monique are very close” I’d watch them be “very close” if you know what I’m sayin

[@jacklesc3133]

I thought this one got deleted!!! Super happy to find this video again

[@1truesmidge]

How the freaking hell does Steven universe have a movie?

[@dercarrot991]

Steven universe making facist EPIC

[@koiphishy]

I have a character who is gay, single, and who grew up in a family(whom he ghosted) that was homophobic, which made him feel the need to hide the fact that he was gay. The moral I want to convey through him and his interactions with others is that being gay/lesbian/pan isn’t bad or strange and hiding it is not healthy. When I started watching the video, I noticed that my character had a “subtle” conveyance of homosexuality and I wanted to know if this was a good situation for this

[@barrettbirks1058]

I'll do Lily's job for her, i personally think that if you are making a character who is scared about coming out, it's ok to be a little subtle in the beginning so they can grow and learn that it's ok to be who you are

[@ThatNutmegGirl]

I think I have a different idea of forgiveness than Lily, but I always saw it as something that fundamentally is for the benefit of the forgiver, sort of like funerals are for the living, not the dead. You forgive someone by no longer dwelling on whatever crime they did, and/or working to resolve that situation for yourself and/or others. You don't have to forget their crime or allow them back into your life by any means, and whatever they did can still be something terrible that makes you angry/passionate. The point of forgiveness is to let go and live a healthier life that doesn't consist of obsessing about the thing you suffered in the past.

[@Pepstep_07]

I was abused by my parents, but i PERSONALLY CHOSE to give them another chance and they have genuinely been attempting to get better and listen. They do toxic things but I hold them accountable and they have slowly started to grow and work through it. HOWEVER I will never EVER *EVER* in my life DEMAND that anyone should forgive their abusive family, especially people who have faced much more egregious things than me, and to this day i question my own choice and relationship with my family and whether or not it was the right choice to make. Abuse victims can choose to forgive but many of them are pressured to, many of them are EXPECTED to and thats NOT how it should be. no child is obligated to forgive abusive parents

[@XXYYZZZA]

7:25 Yes, this. I wish more people realized that. No one has the right to abuse you, you do not owe your abusers anything.

[@sp1nda]

This is a good video, and Im hoping kids who need to hear what you're saying about abusive family can hear it.