The Latest Linear City Designs (Neom The Line)

[@barryrobbins7694]

The problem with The Line in Saudi Arabia is that it is not just a megastructure, but a megastructure as a city. Cities can not be programmed. Good urban planning provides a general layout with proper zoning that allows flexibility and organic growth over time. The Line is the literal embodiment of linear thinking.

[@marques9392]

I love it when Americans put their definitions on everything as the only way to think

[@Chazzmatazz]

​@@marques9392By all means offer an alternative perspective.

[@skygge1006]

@@marques9392america is quite the opposite of good urban planning and zoning that provides flexibility.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Good point. Cities are messy. They don't have to make sense. When they grow organically over many generations they don't form neat patterns. Rome is extremely messy, but it has been loved by its inhabitants for thousands of years. Even "planned" cities like New York that operate on a grid pattern are messy and organic.

[@urbanfile3861]

I agree. I also add that it is conceived like a narrow 'canion' which is bad for livability of public spaces, which won't receive direct natural light for pretty all the day. Suffocating environment. Moreover, even if apparently a linear city is functional for public transit, actually is not, because your only transit corridor could easily collapse under a gigantic transit demand, 'cause you haven't got any space to upgrade it. Not to mention disruptions that can occur (as statistically normal) and can stop of the circulation system of the megastructure. Because you got just one corridor

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

Let's be honest. No matter what the models turned in by the architect firms look like, the end result, if built, will look like a prison or a cubicle farm.

[@dousiastailfeather9454]

Yes, prisoners in boxes!

[@ocean2170]

It looks like an ant farm, funny how metaphor seeps into reality.

[@CarstenNRW]

Sounds like the perfect solution for Saudi Arabia and how to handle their population then.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

@CarstenNRW The first one might be in Saudi Arabia, but if you think some billionaire asshole isn't going to eventually turn all the flyover states into this and top it off with a bullet train that runs from New York to LA you're delusional. Edit: or better yet, the US could get two line cities. One that runs from New York to LA. Another that runs from Seattle to either New Orleans or Miami. And they both intersect in a central hub that covers three quarters of Kansas. What happens to the rest of the country? I'm sure the new slave class that doesn't make the cut for admittance into the lines will continue to work the lands they grew up on after those lands and peoples become the property of the Monsanto corporation.

[@RabbitsInBlack]

Islamic love to imprison their people. BUT all religions love to keep their people in boxes. Don't question the authority.

[@Edmonddantes123]

I read that The Line was inspired by Italian artists whose work was a parody on megalomaniac constructions and how their supposed utopias are actually dystopias. Only problem is that dictators don’t seem to understand irony…

[@stewarthicks]

Yeah, Superstudio...

[@etienne8382]

@@stewarthicksI’m always interested in how Architecture can evolve to create a balance between people and their needs and nature (I.e. retaining biodiversity or creating additional space for nature to thrive). Would be interested to know if there are solution where the Roman-grid and laying slabs and creating roads etc. can be reduced or even removed in favour of cities that is built away from nature in some manner. Can we build a elevated city? Or can one creating spaces for fauna and flora around structures? And can one take land spent by human activity and re-wilding? And shouldn’t we be reusing empty buildings, repurposing them. Empty office buildings can become accomodations, or vertical farms. Would be really interested in an Architects opinion about this. As currently I feel sustainability is a big topic but in the not so distant future we will have to fortify ourselves from the natural environment just to survive (a future I would like to avoid).

[@rinzler9775]

The same people read the book 1984 and thought "that would be cool"

[@dinkaboutit4228]

I think Qadafi was starting to get a handle on it, right there at the end.

[@noaccount4]

'Now announcing the brand new Torment Nexus, from hit scifi novel: "Don't build the Torment Nexus!"'

[@fallenshallrise]

These "megastructures" are all basically "hollow condos" meaning that only those who are accepted to purchase units in the structure have the ability to access the private open spaces within or in-between. It's a walled garden or fortress.

[@noldo3837]

Exactly. Overlord makes a line in a sand, and that is the shape of the city. No organical and historical development, no economicaly created areas by demand and offer, no influence from siciety, democracy, people. Ruler said, ruler is the law. Religious and dictatorial mentality how to put people in a line. LITERALLY.

[@TheByron130]

I would have said prison myself.

[@Icetea-2000]

@@TheByron130that you decide to live in and can leave any time, but yeah apart from it being nothing like a prison it’s basically a prison

[@Greenitthe]

@@Icetea-2000 I read prison as more conceptual than literal here.

[@Icetea-2000]

@@Greenitthe If it’s "conceptual", then you can make that argument for any city or society. Whenever people online discuss the line they act like they’re living off the grid like they aren’t just as ingrained in the system as the people that would live in the line

[@Stammer6]

I think another reason why science-fiction writers tend to include megastructures is because they're very confining. They cannot grow naturally like a city normally would. They can pretty much only exist in a world where some company(ies) have a the capital to build them, which can only really happen in a dystopian reality where only a few people control an obscene amount of money.

[@toasteddingus6925]

😂 we are living in that scenario now hahahaha check out the wealth disparity in the world today where it's not really the 1% that's the problem, you might be exponentially more broke than them, but the people who make up 99% of the 1% are still peasants compared to the top .001%

[@creatrixZBD]

Also helps to keep the story tight, can focus on details, if there are fairly tight constraints on environment

[@doppelrutsch9540]

Aren't like some of the most famous megastructures (Banks Orbitals, The Ringworld... ) expressions of anarchist societies?

[@andresgarciarodriguez1805]

So you mean capitalism?

[@MoisesAguirre-uv4oy]

@@andresgarciarodriguez1805literally capitalism

[@Xeonerable]

For me, I think the science fiction fascination with megastructures is the fantasy of a society being so technologically advanced that they are capable of such an undertaking. In our time, megastructures tend to just be memorials for rich egomaniacs and are probably built with questionable ethics.

[@Bnio]

It reminds me of an idea from a Star Trek writer regarding the use of replicators. If the Star Trek universe has devices that can replicate objects, why are there shipyards constructing starships? Why not just replicate them? And the writer's workaround was: If the world of Star Trek had replicators powerful enough to build entire starships, then it would be a society that had grown beyond the need for starships.

[@JackdotC]

​@@Bnioyeah sorry but that's a pretty bad answer. We have 3D printers that can print houses, but we still need houses. I did a bit of physics, so I know that a replicator would work by accelerating atoms to almost the speed of light to cause the creation of neutrons to change the element of the atom (I think, it's been a few years). The atom is then bassically 3D printed into the object being replicated. All you need to do is scale it up and you could make starships. It might be much slower but it is the same principle as a 3D printer, just make it bigger to make bigger things.

[@daniel4647]

@@JackdotC It could just be inconvenient and inefficient. Could be that it just works better to have smaller replicators that print individual parts then have robots assemble them into star ships or whatever else they wanted. Seems like that would make it easier to make repairs and upgrades. That's the excuse I would have gone with anyway.

[@vylbird8014]

@@Bnio The writers of Star Trek have always been rather vague about how the economics works, and for an understandable reason: While the show has some record of touching on political issues, that is a subject which must always be approached with caution. A society where people don't have steady employment would be unrelatable to the audience, as well. Intelligent alien species and starships? Yeah, we can buy that. A future without wage labor? DOES NOT COMPUTE!

[@hackman669]

Futuristic jails

[@sarahwatts7152]

My one big question is where they plan on putting all the poor people who would work in the line. Would all the fancy rich people want low income housing in their great new project? I assume not, and I assume that this would mean that there would be 'growths' coming off of the line, effectively symbolizing the moral limits of the structure beyond the physical ones

[@Josh-yr7gd]

They would just create a separate "wing" for the lower class. Essentially a large scale servant's quarters! The fancy rich people have always required general help and skilled labor, so they'll need to keep them close, but not close enough to socialize with them.

[@benjaminshamilton]

They put the poor people at the bottom with the industry and utilities. The rich people live up too where’s there natural daylight and recreation and commerce. It’s the model for every dystopian mega structure.

[@zeth609]

@@benjaminshamilton So, like today? up down, other neighborhood. Sun is the differential there.

[@Ichijoe2112]

​@@Josh-yr7gd Ahh yes that old Chesnut... "Outt'a sight, outt'a mind."

[@Ichijoe2112]

​@@benjaminshamiltonA distinct, and precise Word, that the Op (Of this Video), has somehow managed to forget about is Dystopic. Apropos the Towerblocks of 1960 Limy-vile, wasn't this kinda already attempted? With their aforementioned, huge Tower Blocks? Most of which housed the lower classes, living in them to be claimed by mafioso gangs running those Blocks like some small bana Republic, terrorising most of those forced to live in these Ghettos.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

The thing i like most about megastructures (like Neom) is that they are so big that they'll probably never get build.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

@lif6737 a warning for future generations

[@JohnFromAccounting]

One of the most bizarre exploration of megastructures is the Japanese comic "Blame!" In that version of the future, the universe has been consumed by endless and autonomous construction. Megastructures are intriguing for science fiction writers and artists because it allows them to explore a truly foreign concept, that has no parallel on Earth.

[@brodriguez11000]

Games and game engines do this in spades.

[@urbanfile3861]

Blame! I used to collect its volumes when I was younger. Crazy manga. The author is an architect, btw.

[@daltonbedore8396]

yea lumping in writers with architects and oil money royalty is a mistake of the premise of this video. megastructures in science fiction serve as a plot constrait or catalyst to tell a metephorical story. in all the science fiction ive read and watched, the megastructure has almost always been an opressive setting

[@orbismworldbuilding8428]

Its about the size of the solar system as far as Killi has explored. But its ever growing, and too far for you to reach the ends of despite being finite, even as it is I love that world, as terrifying as it is

[@chaomatic5328]

Found Blame! through architecture videos, and now I'm finding it again :D

[@etiennegarant7545]

The Line looks great. It also is the dystopian vanity project of a bloodthirsty megalomaniac. The red flags on the environmental, social and engineering levels are many. I expect whatever gets built might survive as a ruin half buried in the sand sooner than later. "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

[@bisem433]

I can't help but wonder how much will actually get completed.

[@juanjuri6127]

i feel like MBS woke up one day like "i wonder if i can go down in history for something other than chopping up reporters" and just ran with the first idea that popped in his head

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

That actually explains a lot.

[@geargeekpdx3566]

And we will call it the Bone Saw!

[@dousiastailfeather9454]

Yup.

[@TheGotoGeek]

It’s not going to work.

[@Byronic19134]

@@TheGotoGeek It already has. All anybody has talked about is how stupid this idea is to the point I actually forget about the journalists decapitations.

[@keselekbakiak]

The architect went crazy with the design, but the engineers are the one who make it happen.

[@jackesioto]

These megastructures are also called ''arcologies'', an arcology is a hypothetical building or complex containing all the facilities of a city or town and is self sustaining when it comes to food and utilities. It is the provision of its own utilities and food locally that makes arcologies different from run-of-the-mill multiuse structures like the Burj Khalifa. As of yet, no known archologies exist. Such a megastructure would be best suited for undersea, underground, outer space, and other planets and moons, where the lack of habitability would make enclosed towns the only option. If and when we expand to those realms, we will build arcologies there. That said, I don't see the construction of arcologies being practical on the surface of Earth, due to the costs and other logistics involved. In the meantime, certain cities (particularly in North America) have a lot to learn from these arcology concepts, mostly in the urban sprawl department. Zoning in vast, single use districts makes it necessary to drive everywhere, thus causing lengthy commutes, constant traffic problems, more pollution, greater rates of obesity through not being able to walk or cycle to places, those with certain disabilities more dependent on caregivers, the denial of opportunities for those unable to drive, etc.

[@RCSVirginia]

Arizona in the United States has two fascinating experiments that are quite intriguing. The first is Paolo Soleri's arcology, Arcosanti, just outside of Cordes Junction. There are tours given there on a regular basis. The second is Biosphere 2, near Oracle. It, also, has tours. Neither has ever achieved its full potential, but both are still worth a visit.

[@orbismworldbuilding8428]

This summarizes it very well thank you

[@mudcatfrank7537]

The first arcology in fiction is William Hope Hodgson's "The Nightland" (1912) the last stand of humanity on a dying planet.

[@travcollier]

Yep, and I wish he would have used that term. The word megastructures is often used to refer to enormous structures which are enormous because it is required for their function. A space elevator for example, or arguably CERN.

[@jestestuman]

Arcology is mentioned in the video, good expand though

[@AnthonyFransella]

A good question to ask is always "does this bring us closer to a horrific dystopian sci-fi movie?" The answer in this case is, of course, absolutely.

[@pigmentpeddler5811]

yeah but its.gonna be frickin sweet

[@scipioafricanus5871]

@@pigmentpeddler5811 ...not to live in the Line but literally anywhere else.

[@bisem433]

Logan's Run

[@nigerianurbanism]

One vital element of cities are people. So while megastructures may be impressive as engineering, architectural, or science fiction accomplishments, making one at the scale of the city requires something else: the urban element, as in the people. I believe the powers behind The Line are capable of breaking all bounds to build it, however long it may take. But I'm not confident that it will offer a functional urban environment to live in.

[@rayhill5767]

People will live in it because the king says so

[@brindlebucker4741]

For me, Manhattan is a mega-structue, but it is how a megastructure naturally arises when people just go about their business and gradually solve the problems of transportation, water, power, sewerage, waste disposal, recreation etc. If it made sense for everything to be stretched out in a long line, that's how huge cities would actually look right now. But they don't. Cities are dense little clusters that resemble an organic cell. And then when they need more space, they build upwards and downwards. They don't add long stretched out arms east and west. The reason is, a dense cluster is the most efficient way to place people and things close together. If you take this Line, break it up into segments, then place these segments side by side, it would be way more efficient than having it in a long stretched out line. This project will fail in the end. The people who pour money into things like this have no real appreciation of the wealth they are disposing of- because that's how they see wealth/riches: a disposable resource. We should be using our resources for things that will actually work and solve problems for people. Our electrical grid needs to be massively upgraded, for example, if we are seriously planning on switching to electrically powered transportation.

[@jonathanraithel1025]

People who want mega-structures to some extent want control. If the mega-structure is an enormous college building, it can make sense. A corporate campus combined with residential and retail all combined it one could also be reasonable. But when you want a mega-structure city, it just screams authoritarian/oligarchic megalomania about how much control you want over people.

[@IceSpoon]

Back in the 50-60s, it was rather popular in Chile that big companies would build a factory, and then an entire village for their workers and families. The government was happy with this as it provided work, housing and urbanisation to a previously undeveloped area. 60 years later and those factories long gone, those houses are still heavily desired as they provided spacious and solid houses and apartments. And obviously, the people who paid for those projects enjoyed a lot of political power in those localities. Fast forward to a mega-structure, and I can imagine Coca~Cola, Nestlé, some random oligarch, etc., building such places to exert a strong soft power within the regional and even national government. Heck, even I would be less critical towards Nestlé if they build and entire village with schools, sewage system and more. I would still hate them (lol), but I'd hate them less.

[@CesareNero]

Let them build whatever they want . Why should Americans and Europeans give to shytes

[@wer45635]

If you don't want control Then you should not be angry if I decided to not to care and trust you You are responsible for yourselves If you fall is your fault I have my own things to care for If you hate my comment You are just like those karens

[@stormveil]

@@IceSpoon Basically a "company town" - this has been done for a while. Mines, and factories usually. Sometimes they totally collapse after the mine or factory closes. Some were nice enough or close to other cities that they become desirable. Some become museums.

[@crazydragy4233]

Meanwhile where I'm from such towns mostly die because they only got made for the industry, which is now long gone.

[@julieisthatart]

The thing about these mega structures seems like they would be inpossible to escape in a disaster. Now that the whole world knows that simply flying a large jet into a structure causes it to explode and fall to the earth with no chance to escape, seems like a pretty serious trap to me.

[@JonStallings]

And I would also add the great risk of the next pandemic with that many people living so close to each other.

[@hedgehog3180]

Well after 9/11 we actually did start designing skyscrapers to be able to resist these kinds of things, at least for long enough to evacuate everyone.

[@julieisthatart]

@@hedgehog3180 yes, of course. But the thing is, how do people evacuate this thing?

[@heunam3593]

@@julieisthatart oh its very simple you just take the train that everyone else is taking. Or you could go out into the desert. Oh i know, you could use your personal private helicopter 😃 No issues whatsoever!

[@julieisthatart]

@@heunam3593 There do not appear to be any exits into the desert. And if there is a catastrophe how it is not going to effect the train, and can the entire population fit onto that train during a fire, explosion, contagion, gas attack or whatever?

[@m.f.3347]

I have a feeling that the people who want to build these megastructures and the people who have to live with them are very different groups

[@WaukWarrior360]

I have a feeling that living with them is a completely voluntary choice

[@nuansd]

​@@WaukWarrior360doubtful, in autocracies??

[@nuansd]

​@@WaukWarrior360that already have significant human rights violations, slavery, and political murders?

[@Jinkypigs]

O no, they may live it in .. but only the top most, most desirable part.

[@kallistiX1]

@@nuansd I think you misunderstand. The people who could afford to live there - even in the lowest sections - are not going to folks like the displaced tribes who are being evicted from the land. To make back the cost of investment alone, the prices would have to be far outside the reach of the vast majority of the people.

[@adrianghandtchi1562]

I’m so happy you’re revisiting this topic, before I finish the rest of the video, I would like to say that a rise of any kind of project like this is for people who want to have a tighter control on where people go so that those who have everything can have that sense of division from others, their own utopian playground, it’s like that game Bioshock. It’s very unhealthy, everyone has the right to privacy, but not to take up a big house and stick the rest of the household in the garden shed.

[@Thukad]

I have to admit, I looked up each firm of architects that you showed on the screen. A list of vanity firms is not a bad way to put it. Seems like they are very skilled at making mega sculptures, not buildings.

[@daltonbedore8396]

inwish stewarts videos were a little more concerned with the reality rather than the hype

[@samuelglover7685]

Whatever their architectural skills, they sure know how to home in on idiots with more money than they know what to do with.

[@Brucifer72]

Amazing! It’s just like “Snow-piercer”! But it’s in the sand and it just sits there.

[@Herfinnur]

I get that this video isn't a review, but the reasons that make 'The Line' the worst city project in history are myriad, so I wish you'd touched on how these kind of pie-in-the-sky projects tend not to be very grounded in the real world and thus tend to ignore, for example, the possible (obvious in the case of The Line!) catastrophic effects on the environment and animal life

[@SodaDjinn]

Indeed. The Line is possibly the most flawed idea in urban planning ever thought of. It will be finished and a horribly impractical place to live in at best and an environmental disaster with no use at worst. To think of all these resources being wasted on a project any 5 year old could plan better… Any architect or engineer involved in this should be ashamed of themselves.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

If they bend the line into a semi-circle, and then mirror it on the other side, and then fill in the middle, it could work.

[@futrey9353]

@@SodaDjinn mind explaining why?

[@SodaDjinn]

@@futrey9353 the channel "Adam Something" explains it better in his video about the Line than I could in a single KZbin comment. But for starters: A line is a terrible shape for a place. You have to travel long distances to get from one place top another. A normal city grid or a circle are simply superior. Nothing is achived with a long line except for the "wow" factor when they revealed it. It's a nightmare.

[@Herfinnur]

"This City Concept Breaks Architechture" by DamiLee is, despite the shot title, another great video essay on The Line

[@kokopelli314]

Kisho Kurokawa should also be mentioned in that his metabolic approach recognizes the impermanent nature of architecture and how design should conform to human needs, and not the reverse.

[@supa3ek]

All architects understand that principle way back from the ancient times ! kisho isnt the first to come up with that concept ! No need to mention him at all !

[@kokopelli314]

@@supa3ek "all architects..." really...? You wouldn't know it to see it

[@dhj-i8g]

The one real-world example that jumps to my mind is the Kowloon Walled City that used to be in Hong Kong. I suspect there's a reason why these types of structures often popup in dystopic/cyberpunk sci-fi. "Kowloon Walled City" has been interpreted as a lawless slum, but also a community that arose on the margins, which is more positive, but still speaks to the relative poverty and lack of power/status/wealth of those who (are sometimes forced to) live there.

[@jamescollins3647]

What will be done with the milions of lazy useless people? Stop pretending they don't exist they do. Working people tend to think everybody is like them they are not.

[@Peizxcv]

There was no plan of any kind for KWC though which is exactly the opposite of NEOM

[@DTXBrian]

@@Peizxcv Regardless of NEOM, which is simply an example of a type of megastructure, I absolutely do believe that KWC does satisfy the definition of a megastructure.

[@julietwiskey4408]

Something that seemed like a hidden theme of megastructures was isolation. The science fiction explorers stepping out onto one that has long since been abandoned. Or the megastructure that flies out into the vastness of space, being the sole spec of life amongst the nothingness. And in real life it seems it could have a similar issue, why venture beyond the megastructure if it has all you need?

[@Byronic19134]

So now we are at the point where living in a place that has all you need is a bad thing? That is the whole reason we started building societies.

[@Josh-yr7gd]

Seems like the driving force in some megastructures is sociological. The scaled model of The Line looked eerily like an ant farm. What better way to study and control society than to create an attractive enclosure where people would not be required to leave nor have any desire to leave? Conformity and uniformity is the ultimate goal.

[@leewhiting3834]

The Line makes me think of fictional megastructures Aurora from Kim Stanley Robinson's novel and the bathhouse from Spirited Away (Miyazaki's film). Aurora is a fully autonomous (is that the right word for this?) spaceship in the form of two parallel hulls that are connected at several points. It contains farms, towns, 'natural" parks, a whole bunch of communities with different cultures, manufacturing, etc. The system is socialistic/anarchistic. The voyagers/inhabitants are on a multi-generation journey to colonize a planet in the Tau Ceti system. The book and the ship are beautiful and the people are able to solve the problems that arise by consensus--though the consensus is to make a drastic change--(I don't want to spoil!). The bathhouse is just amazing to me! It is layered vertically reflecting the hierarchy of the workers, guests, etc., up to the crazy CEO, and the place contains every aspect of life, every motivation, value, emotion and level of society (I want to say under capitalism). For me it is such a symbol of how we live. I can't tie these ideas together into much, but I wonder what others think of these works of art--and megastructures!

[@daniel4647]

Thanks, I've been searching for some positive sci-fi, so sick of all the dystopian stuff, going to check out that book. Did you know there is a place called Auroville in India that tries to be a real socialist/anarchist utopia? It's pretty cool.

[@leewhiting3834]

@@daniel4647 You might like Ursula K. LeGuin's novel The Dispossessed or Kim Stanley Robinson's New York 2140 or his Mars Trilogy: Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars.

[@aoxc61]

This comment takes me back to Walt Disney's visionary concept of the futuristic city E.P.C.O.T, planned for Orlando, Florida. The multitude of considerations involved in constructing megastructures is overwhelming to the extent that it's virtually impossible to account for every single one. Chaos Theory proposes that even minor deviations in the initial conditions can lead to drastically diverse outcomes. Given that megastructures, by their very nature, involve millions of initial variables, it's practically guaranteed that overlooked aspects will inevitably lead to unexpected results.

[@Byronic19134]

I don't know I just watched his video on sky bridges and I can't get over the exact preciseness of what they needed in measurement and execution to put an infinity pool on top of a sky bridge that spans 4 sky scrapers knowing that a deviation of 4cm any way with the wind, the buildings always pushing into the soil further and ect, would cause the illusion to fall and yet they got an infinity pool that spans 4 sky scrapers. Computer AI must be the secret.

[@sicko_the_ew]

If a city is a system highly sensitive to initial inputs, yes, chaos could easily take over. If it isn't, then this doesn't apply. Intuitively it seems it might, but that doesn't allow you to draw the little box right away, or write, Q.E.D. Maybe. There is an aspect mentioned of this plan that permits corrections to be made (finding ways of staying on plan) - viz., that the idea is to build "in modules" - where Module 2 is adapted according to what was discovered, making Module 1, and so on. So you get to have a long sequence of initial conditions, instead of a single "initial state" followed by entirely circumstantial perturbations over time. From what I've read of past linear cities, they've tended to later get appropriated by the people who hate the idea, and to "get undone" in time. (Or one could pretend this process was just something "organic" without accounting for choices organisms make.) This one is in a desert, so unless someone actively puts in "branch lines" enabling it to properly pave over everything, the way "organic" cities - even the cute, cuddly ones - do, there's less likelihood that a human space-hater with the urge to "fill up wasted space" (pave everything, in concrete terms) would send it off in a different direction. It's the kind of place a city doesn't generally want to spontaneously manifest in, so the "wasted space" around it might just have some guarantee of remaining "wasted". (And for the romantics who like the idea of living between a beautiful desert and a coral sea, with access to both, just not by highway in a big truck I think that's a nice thought. This time it's going to be really difficult to find a "better use" for the open spaces you would naturally gain by not putting that many people in the middle of a highway-enclosed organic circle.) I think maybe a better question to ask would be how many modules would it take for it to have some chance of being a sustainable entity in some frozen state short of reaching its full potential to grow - as a line, I mean, instead of a blob that blots out a roughly circular piece of pristine Earth, instead of a linear piece. One could make that a bit more concrete, I think. How many people (with corresponding facilities) would it take for it to become a College Town? An organic College Town, that just spontaneously sprouted on land which didn't seem to want to sprout any other kind of town there. There might be some "unnatural" cookie cutter cities already in existence to at least suggest potential reasons for being for this place. (This has just reminded of me something very tangentially related. A little map location called Ottoshoop - Otto's Hope - where they found gold, once, and where thousands of diggers moved in, with ideas of founding a new city there. They went so far as to have a proper town plan drawn up. And then the reefs ran out, everyone moved on, and headed for this new place, Johannesburg. Which needed a town plan ... ) Point being is town planning for most of the towns we know was done by just blindly applying The Rules. That could even amount to taking over the plan some town that never began paid for, and using that to lay out the town. The "organic" idea is not entirely without substance, but the impression I get of it is that its proponents can romanticize a bit. (Which the rare Line-heads also do, I suppose. With their disgusting "beautiful" deserts, and their reefs full of nasty stuff that bites, cuts, and poisons - and that's before the sharks attack.)

[@christopherstephenjenksbsg4944]

Excellent, as usual Stewart. I am more than a little ambivalent about megastructures, and very much opposed to The Line in particular. It would be an ecological disaster! My biggest problem with megastructures is that in order to work, they must be built and operated by some sort of authoritarian entity, and the behavior of the inhabitants must be tightly controlled. I'm not sure such a thing is even possible over the long term, and I certainly don't think it's desirable. It might be necessary for a colony-space-ship-type construct, or maybe even a Niven Ringworld or a Dyson Sphere, but would anybody really *want* to live in such an environment unless absolutely necessary? Unfortunately, some of my favorite architects from the 1960s (like Paul Rudolph) indulged in fantasies about these sorts of structures, though few went beyond drawings and models, and those that were built, like Arcosanti, never came anywhere close to completion. The megastructures depicted in science fiction almost always depict dystopian societies, like Phillip K Dick's vision of "Blade Runner" Los Angeles (admittedly not strictly a megastructure, but it's got the same vibe), or their purpose is mysterious, like Clarke's Rama or Niven's Ringworld. Historically it is best illustrated by the Palace of Versailles and its surrounding town, which existed only to support the palace's operations, and the extensive and highly artificial landscape. Admittedly, this could best be termed a proto-megastructure, but Louis XIV had many of the same aspirations as Muḥammad bin Salmān. At Versailles, he aspired to create a totally controlled environment. It was built to support an authoritarian government as embodied in the King. Its construction and maintenance bankrupted France. Many historians believe that Versailles and the promulgration of the doctrine of Absolute Monarchy that it embodied was a direct cause of the French Revolution over a century later. Lutyens' designs for New Delhi, largely completed, are magnificent in the abstract, but they were (and are) an environmental disaster and marked the death knell of the British Empire. Albert Speer's designs for Nazi Germany embodied the same sorts of aspirations on an even grander scale. Thankfully, these never came to pass. I understand the excitement engendered by these sorts of structures. Personally, I prefer a low-key approach on a much smaller scale with much humbler aspirations. It's these sorts of structures that have the flexibility to accommodate changes in culture, technology, and social mores. They can stand the test of time.

[@daltonbedore8396]

@@ouroboratika stewart does this alot. so consistantly that i cant imagine it's not on purpose. it really bothers me sometimes because if tou do not vocally oppose the status quo, you are de facto supporting it.

[@StuffandThings_]

I think also that the monolithic footprint of megastructures, an entire city in one building, appeals to the authoritarian mindset. Not only does it require some sort of control, but is easier to control, and has the visual appearance of unity and control. Building a vast monument is also a great way to distract from deeper issues in a society, and is a great way to show off grandeur whilst quietly ignoring everything else. Authoritarian regimes require megastructures as much as megastructures require authoritarian regimes. Its a historical pattern.

[@WaukWarrior360]

​@@StuffandThings_It think you're over thinking it. Some people just think its neat

[@ellieechoes]

As a marine biologist and wildlife ecologist, I have questions about wild life crossing. If this line happens then there will be a separation of gene pools and could ruin wild life migrations. I was hoping our future would move towards harmony with nature..... imagine all the dead birds that would fly into that.

[@Byronic19134]

I am curious as to how much Wildlife is even in the area they want to build it. It is mostly herded animals. And it will be 100% clean energy for what that is worth.

[@crazydragy4233]

The dude paying for it would probably set a country on fire for fun if it was still a novel idea. Why do you think the most destructive and ridiculous project yet in his vision would actually care about anything like that? They literally destroyed coral reeds to build some ugly half abandoned islands in a special shape

[@skyscraperfan]

"The Line" is not a serious proposal, because it is drastically underfunded. $500 billion sounds a lot, but not for a building with a volume of 17 billion cubic metres. So the budget is only about $30 per cubic metre. That is one or two orders of magnitude too low. They want to start with a 2.4 kilometre section and that would already be by far the largest building on earth. But that section is a little less that 1/70 of "The Line". That first section would already costs tens of billions to build. So an easy calculation tells you that "The Line" will never be built as a whole, because the money simply is not there. The only way to build it would be spreading the construction over centuries. Many say that "The Line" already is under construction, because there already is a lot of digging and you can already see the shape of a linear structure. That is just a PR stunt though. Digging is easy. Even kids dig in the sand. But building a 17 billion cubic metre structure is simply not possible. The problem is that the crown prince pay a lot of smart people a lot of money. Those people know that they would get fired if they told him that his vision will never become reality. So they only tell him what he wants to hear. I would do the same for $500,000 or more per year.

[@samhobo107]

I live in a soviet concrete hive. Built in 1970-80s. Hundreds of thousands of people packed in one city district. Not only it is very uncomfortable place but also it's very hard to maintain or change infrastructure according to new demands and new technologies. If you want to be hated forever build megastructures.

[@abwoturab29]

I am from Iraq and i say, trapping people in 1D dimensional city is not the future, Unless you build them on existed road that connected to a real cities.

[@Josh-yr7gd]

Exactly. Something about this doesn't seem right.

[@noldo3837]

It is future for managers of corrupted companies and oligarchs, how to get money from the project and then live in Nice...

[@michaelrecycle9838]

What came to mind - Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park, [to paraphrase] 'you spent so much time thinking if you could you didn't stop to think if you should' Also, I'd rather die than deal with my condo board and its decisions and/or the interactions among the board and the owners of the 200 or so units in my development. The Line would be a bit excessive.

[@barryrobbins7694]

In Stewart Brand’s _How Buildings Learn: What Happens After They’re Built_ he wrote about the need for buildings to be built in such a way as to allow flexibility for future use. A building can be built for one purpose and be used for something completely different decades later. Occupants may have planned for one thing, but through living in the structure may discover the need to make adaptations. While it is impossible to anticipate all the future possibilities, good design in buildings, megastructures, or cities provide more adaptive possibilities. Adaptive buildings are also less expensive and better for the environment over time.

[@bubblesculptor]

What's the chances that they are planning a potential future use is something like a defensive wall? Keep out invaders, zombies, etc?

[@barryrobbins7694]

@@bubblesculptor No one plans for a zombie apocalypse, and to quote Monty Python, “Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition. Our chief weapon is surprise.”😀

[@banzaipiegaming]

Great video Stewart. Something to add and that is what is most important about mega-structures is that they also embody this unrealistic sense of unity and homogeneity. The most important asset humans have is individuality and that is expressed through our actions and subsequently, creations. Architecture is one important example of that. The dwellings we create and refine are the direct expression of that. Traditionally both in science fiction and in reality, mega-structures ultimately erode individuality because they expect humans to sacrifice that part of our expression for this homogeneous system and that in itself is a severe violation of morality in my opinion. So, I see them only as oppressive constructs. I know they don’t all end up that way, but there are so many more examples of this than heterogeneous ones that it has just made me jaded and biased against them. Within the context of this line city specifically: It's really unfortunate how so many middle eastern governments keep throwing their free oil money away into useless mega projects that serve no purpose other than to be flashy Arabian Las Vegas's. If they followed financial methods like Norway, they could've secured their country's financial futures. Yet because of all this waste, once the world moves on from fossil fuels, these mega-projects will turn into mega, decaying, ghost towns because they had such surface level intent behind them. All this time, money and resources will be wasted if it goes through and it’s sad.

[@FlyNorthrop]

The line is a dumb idea but a great way to turn oil money to government spending

[@shadowreaperjb]

The problem is that it's being spent in a way that's destroying lives and ruining ecologies already

[@crazydragy4233]

​@@shadowreaperjb So basically nothing new for the trash heap "Saudi Arabia" is

[@davidcouto2658]

Fascinating topic, I feel you missed the mark on addressing the "why" part of megastructures in sci-fi. Overwhelmingly, they're made to ensure the survival of a species, which in the human view is apparently only possible in a microcosm with strict controls and often an overlord working in the shadows to maintain order. Speaks a lot to the nature of both architects, and the type of clients that commission these kinds of projects

[@TheEyrie]

So the closest real life version in the UK would be the original London Bridge. A mish-match of services, businesses and residential buildings concentrated densely. No wonder it was falling down!

[@bisem433]

If I lived in one big building in the middle of the desert I no doubt would be planning lots of trips to outside for a change of repetitive scenery. Someone in the comments mentioned that it looks like a prison. I wonder if there are nefarious intentions for it's future use. It reminds me of the movie "Logan's Run".

[@vladeckk21]

P1: let's create a city where the distance between any two points of interest is maximized and everyone has to travel in the same corridor. P2: Wouldn't that be enormously expensive relative to using the land that's readily available? P1: Yes but everyone will pay attention to us and we can move on to some other project once it's 20% completed. P2: I'm in!

[@heunam3593]

Hit the nail on the head. Also i just hate how it purposefully cuts through the desert in the most ineffiecient way possible, as if it was just a plane wasteland with no beauty or fauna of its own.

[@kurtellestad4070]

Exactly!

[@sicko_the_ew]

A much better way to maximize the distance between points of interest would be to space people out as much as possible, and then "curl the roads up" - into cul de sacs, to lengthen the actual travel distance, and prevent things like walking. Then get to work on the temporal separation from points of interest. Reduce access to the point of interest known as "workplace" to a single funneling highway, with gridlock at the times when most people are using these, and then nice big parking lots at the other end. OK, we could fix that by making a high rise city center that covers almost all the ground it sits on, except for concrete canyons. In a place like that, you could at least get to points of interest quite quickly if the lights are in your favor. No? OK, how about following the Wisdom of the Ancestors? Sprawl that out a bit more. Pave everything possible, again, but now you have canyons that aren't quite so deep. Then there's the question of what amounts to a "point of interest"? If a fireplace in some empty desert, under black skies isn't of interest, I suppose maybe some monument or pub will do instead? That's probably extending this issue too much, though, so leave that there. What points of interest are there in low-rise neighbourhoods (to people for whom these are not a novelty)? Public places, I suppose? Actually it's not possible to talk sensibly about this without some kind of catalog of places of interest (that aren't just environments traversed, since if you have all that space to the sides of a line, that's the kind of thing you could replicate just about trivially in the space you gain by not having streets and parking lots, even.) Here's a place of interest the Line would definitely have: Coral reefs within walking distance of most people. And if the modules are mixed use, there should be a fair chance that one's own place of work would at very least be no further away (in Time, let's say) than is currently the case in the "20km city"? (And that's pretty compact.) I'm not convinced that everything is going to have to be further away than would otherwise be the case, with this city.

[@annalang5687]

The ponte vecchio wasn’t intended to have small shops on it. This is something that was done much later to avoid regulation. All shops on the ponte vecchio sell gold, which was "prohibited to the left and the right of the arno", but not ON the arno.

[@0osha]

The amount of times fiction is said in this video should be indicative of where this project belongs.

[@mtc5]

There are a few information gaps in the video: 1. NEOM is a region, and the building subject to this video is called the LINE. They are not interchangeable terms. 2. There will be other parts of NEOM besides the LINE, outdoors cities that look more like conventional cities: Sindalah Island, Oxagon, etc. 3. The Landscapes of the Line is another part of NEOM, adjacent to the LINE, which will feature outdoor accommodations and activities. Yes the region is mainly a desert, and deserts aren't most hospitable places, but they also aren't exactly what people who have never experienced them think they are. 4. (Not in the video but many people commenting on the video don't know this) The climate at Tabuk region and NEOM is milder than desert climate, there are mountains where it snows, great underwater natural features like coral reefs for snorkeling enthusiasts and more.

[@crazydragy4233]

What coral reefs buddy? The ones that won't be buried under sand will die off in a decade. Given the joke that those fake islands are this is just gonna be a colossal waste of recources

[@stephenspackman5573]

I've been reading science fiction for some decades, and it had honestly never occurred to me to define “megastructure” as anything other than “a very large structure”. Indeed, if you'd asked me to provide examples, I'd have chosen things like the Great Wall of China, the Aswan Dam, or solar shades-engineering structures big enough to have meaning on a planetary scale, not mere exercises in urban architecture, however consolidated. As to why they seem to happen with increasing frequency, both the need and the ability are driven by technology, and technology has been on an exponential ramp for the last few billion years, so it does not seem like much of a surprise. But anyway-why would we _want_ a definition of “megastructure” that relates neither to mega- nor to -structure? Are there no other words for unitised cities (an idea that I don't think is new; Fermont was built in the 70s and I presume there are earlier examples, because why not?).

[@gerogyzurkov2259]

The reason why cause of space and room. That's why most of them focus on cities cause space is a premium of which they imagine this will needed. America is the worst way to make a city. These views of cyber and this project will simply fail in reality cause as people pointed out it is not flexible in terms of space non is it urban or transportation friendly.

[@danieldonaldson8634]

The insistence on a "definition" of something that exists as a fantasy is like having an ISO 9000 standard for what counts as a dream. Stewart Hicks seem very comfortable with the idea, and so begins the pantomime of ideas being discussed, presented as actual thoughtfulness.

[@gerogyzurkov2259]

@@danieldonaldson8634 well normally such things are normally presented by people who have little to no credentials in that fields so the reasons why such ideas seemed to be thoughtful cause "by their words" rather than what's actually set in.

[@daltonbedore8396]

there is actually no "need" to redesign the city. there is certainly a desire here, but, whose desire is it, and why? these are vastly more important details than the "how"

[@stephenspackman5573]

​ @daltonbedore8396 Well, Fermont was designed to meet a perceived need: it's bloody cold there. But yes.

[@TimothyCHenderson]

The past casts a long shadow. Most parts of the world can draw on some previous powerful civilization that undertook either real or mythical great builds that many of us are still in awe of today. These great works are an example of human achievement, knowledge, art and power. Clarke's Rama is a great example of exploring the ruins of a long lost civilization, much like we've been exploring the ruins of our own ancient and classical civilizations for hundreds of years now.

[@heunam3593]

I fear that if we start replicating building ideas like the line and actually finish them, we are running straight into lost civilization status.

[@koetter_boater]

currently, it feels like the line is being used as a funding opportunity to play for designers who are not thinking of a realistic end product. Perhaps those that are developing designs don't worry about the end result because they won't be responsible for figuring out how to realize their nightmares of unconnected portfolio pieces. But the prince expects this to be realized very quickly, and I would not want to be on the list of people he is expecting to figure this all out

[@dousiastailfeather9454]

Great comment! Prison for wealthy when the infidels to south overthrow! Or oil runs out...

[@HeIsAnAli]

So TL;DR, this is _FOR __-SCIENCE-__ ARCHITECTURE_ made manifest?

[@crazydragy4233]

Just look at the ugly mess those manmade islands are (next to that tall dumb tower) and you will know how that thing is gonna go 😂

[@Hamdad]

I have always deeply mistrusted social engineers, to whom we are dolls for their dollhouse, and ants for their antfarm. There's no one size fits all solution for the infinite variation of human needs

[@SequoiaElisabeth]

Sci-Fi's influence on Neom is obvious. At least to me. The social reasoning behind a linear city is what I find interesting. All citys have their neighborhoods which become cliches of sort. I see this happening here big time. Where certain sections of the line will be less desirable than others, probably extending from the sea inland. The other aspect is where will food come from? Will this city be like a space ship? Will all products be shipped in? Social structure has a formula and this city will be no different.

[@jtd8719]

If megastructures are organic and evolving, I think of the improvised favelas of Rio more than I do a rigid linear city. Of course, we do have linear urbanization where residential, recreational, commercial and industrial development evolves along existing transportation infrastructure, but the transportation route (usually between existing central places) is normally the catalyst for this development, and not a pre-determination that a linear city should be constructed based on an artificial mandate or vision from on high.

[@Byronic19134]

Favelas and what was Kowloon are amazing to me.

[@skylarking12]

I would love for you to talk about the underground megastructure in the Apple Plus series "Silo". It's an underground vertical city of over a hundred levels, where elevators and pulley/winches are banned, all traffic is by foot up and down a central spiral staircase.

[@adrianghandtchi1562]

Well, that’s not very ADA friendly.

[@skylarking12]

@@adrianghandtchi1562 yeah, I know. It speaks to how a built environment is designed to shape human behaviors and to force choices thru limits, even down to how you govern and run your daily lives.

[@nailguncrouch1017]

Do you know if that is based off of the "Wool" series of stories?

[@RivkahSong]

The concept of a megastructure in space makes sense. It's difficult and dangerous working up there and currently you have to haul up all your materials. It makes sense from a practical standpoint to make modular units that can be quickly finished and slotted into place on a space station. It would be beneficial for the population's mental and physical health to have as many facets of normal life as possible within the structure. Restaurants, gardens, private quarters, shops, gyms, etc. The same goes for if we were to build a city on Mars or the Moon, since it would also need to be a sealed structure. But I don't think they make sense on Earth. Humanity craves individuality and variety so an entire city pre-planned for the same modular units wouldn't hold up long term. People would want to make something different eventually. There's also the fact that every modular building made to have a permanent frame with replaceable modules has ended up with those modules wearing out quickly since they were made to be temporary but never being replaced because the owners didn't find it "cost effective" and the whole thing became a crumbling slum. And that's not touching on the physical and psychological effects of humans being indoors all the time under artificial light and away from nature.

[@aes53]

Great topic to revisit, I wonder how the one in Saudi Arabia is progressing. When I wonder what it would be like to live in one of those I just think back to the Pruitt-Igoe housing project when I was a kid in St. Louis.😊

[@TempleGuitars]

I haven't seen any updates for months.

[@r-saint]

No mention of Tsutomu Nihei, wow a real accomplishment.

[@guidedmeditation2396]

The problem is you MUST stay within the line and everything you do and everywhere you go is tracked and recorded. There will be massive bottlenecks if people were to be allowed to move freely so you will be restricted to your quadrant and must have approval to leave your designated area. It is more of a Prison than a dream city. However it will be a learning experience.

[@sicko_the_ew]

OK, but what if it just the case that you CAN stay within the line if you wish? And if you don't wish, you could take your horse, bicycle, own two feet, etc. out into the beautiful, if slightly dangerous desert, out as far as you need to go, orthogonal to the line, to get to a place where you felt far enough "away from it all" to feel free? Now compare that with a cul-de-sacced suburbia, surrounded on all sides by highways, where you and your horse will get killed for sure, if you risk trying to cross that Line. How to get away from it all? Get in your car? Follow the highway? For how many miles? And then what about the horse? Doesn't that sound like a kind of prison to you, too?

[@guidedmeditation2396]

@@sicko_the_ew Its about Freedom. The natural way for a human to live.

[@hackman669]

Can people leave or visit at will? Whats with tracking people?

[@sicko_the_ew]

@@guidedmeditation2396 Yes, but what I was saying is that there's nothing intrinsically un-free about the building itself. You don't have to remain within the city. The "countryside" would be just about "right outside the back door". That goes for an imaginary Line somewhere else, and freedom of choice. Someone wanting to live in the "freedom" of suburbia would have at least as much freedom to do so as does someone today wishing to live in newly built "missing middle" housing, in some sprawl-suburb. Under the control of a controlling dictator, a Line could be used to suppress dissent, but a dictator with control of all the highway exits and electricity and water distribution of a suburb could do exactly the same thing, surely? It's not the town plan; it's the way its governed.

[@sicko_the_ew]

@@hackman669 I'm pretty sure there's going to be as much freedom of movement, or more, as there is anywhere else in Saudi Arabia, in this instance of a "Line". As for tracking people, we already all get tracked by the tech companies, so if a secret police somewhere wants the dirt on any of us, all they have to do is buy it from a data broker. Maybe the Saudis will track inhabitants of the Line. (Given the prevalence of terrorism in that part of the world, it's almost certain they'll maintain at least some level of surveillance.) I heard there was also some kind of plan connected to this place, to link up to a new city to be built in Egyptian Sinai (a place it's easier to make more liberal than somewhere with the history and established current culture of Saudi, so it almost sounds like the plan is to make this the "Free City", where talented people from around the world feel comfortable and free enough to stay on. That's something no king could try and start in, say, Mecca (or even Jedda, given its closeness). However, in a separate "tech city" that's miles away from anything traditional, it's possible to make something culturally closer to the Dubai foreigners experience?

[@adsilcott]

I really love how thoroughly you approach your subjects! I can always count on you to get a more academic take on a topic. One thing I would add to your list of motivations for megastructures in science fiction, is a projection of current growth and urbanization trends. As someone who writes short scifi stories, many of my ideas come from seeing how things are changing around me, and imagining that change continuing to extremes in the future. A lot of scifi reflects the types of developments that were happening at the time of their writing. We see farmland being replaced by buildings and those buildings being replaced with skyscrapers, and we imagine that in the future those structures will just keep getting bigger, even if in reality trends like that are likely to come up against practical and economic limitations eventually.

[@TuriGamer]

The future definitely points towards mega slums but "the line" is insanely silly for hundreds of reasons

[@WaukWarrior360]

Please list the hundreds of reasons

[@TuriGamer]

@@WaukWarrior360 I'm not wasting my time to waste your time. Put "the line" in the search bar and enjoy watching hundreds of hours of people explaining why its utterly braindead. Ima leave you with 3 absolutely critical flaws so you cant call this a copout: 1. We do not have the technology to build this 2. No city in the history of humanity has ever been build in a straight line cause thats literally the worst way you can do it 3. They want to build that thing in a dry lifeless desert that will be swallowed up by the ocean in a few decades

[@mmmattodoteth7922]

Great video as always Stewart. Loved this theme. The manga Blame is a great megastructure comic.

[@curiousfurious5877]

Nope. This prison will end abandoned...nobody wants to live there and if someone does it wont be for long...stupid idea.

[@daniel4647]

Someone forgot to mention that mega structures in sci-fi are usually used to describe dystopia, because they're chaotic and claustrophobic, usually filled with crime and inequality and oppression, driven by a small privileged elite. Not always, but overall this is the purpose they serve in sci-fi literature. And that's what Neom looks like, a place where the elite will live on top close to the sun, while their servants will keep the machines running down in the darkness. You couldn't pay me to live in that place, it looks horrifying, like something pulled out of the Hunger Games. A giant mirror in the desert? I feel like we should force the designers to clean those mirrors every time they get dusty.

[@Byronic19134]

Steward is an architect and focuses on the, you know, architecture of things and the inspiration for them. He does his best to steer clear of any social commentary or anything outside of architecture because people come here to escape that part. We know that part. Also, why would we force the designers to do something? Designers are just doing their job which is to design they do not have the money or power to build anything they are just artists designing cool shxt in their heads. Besides they would have designed a cleaning mechanism into the glass anyway. Also, it just looks like a giant linear airport. Pay me money, I will live in an airport so long as the wifi is good, that's all I need.

[@mtc5]

Glass cleaning shouldn't be an issue with nanotechnology, robotics and of course, money.

[@leejerrett8268]

@@Byronic19134You can’t really do a good job of talking about architecture without some form of social commentary.

[@crazydragy4233]

​@@Byronic19134 Thinking you can divorce architecture from social aspects is just plain silly. It literally exists as a response to them

[@remka2000]

Wondering if the Kowloon walled city qualified as a megastructure. It was mostly self-contained, not sure if you could have called it modular though 😅. It did grow fairly organically. Or maybe Gunkanjima, which had everything from a school to a cinema and the first high rises in Japan (at the time). Built as a fully contained mining town by one company.

[@android01978]

I don’t know where his definition of megastructure came from, but it seems very on the nose to me. If something is a massive (mega) and a structure, it should qualify as a megastructure. Narrowing the definition from this is an abuse of language. Give it a different word that isn’t a contraction if you want to do that.

[@陸天篤]

Hell yeah, a place where if a fire breaks out it's difficult to get out

[@dedicatedspuddler7641]

Interesting and thought provoking video. Ringworlds like Larry Niven's and megastructures like Isaac Asimov's Cave of Steel and Trantor from his Foundation Series are archetypal in SF. The line, though, seems to fail due to the linearity, since the longer it is the more time it would take to travel from one point to another. A globe or hub and spoke design would seem more efficient and a better land use. Great channel, btw.

[@Sejong-r2j]

Well i guess the linear structure rather would work well in the sense of transportation cause there's no need to make intersections. It depends

[@stephenspackman5573]

The number of people who seem to say “oh, economic use of rail is impossible because the ground is two dimensional” would seem to argue otherwise. Mad as they are.

[@carlosortuno8602]

Wow I love how thoroughly you present all the info!! Just subscribed thanks

[@SilkCrown]

Megastructures are also a good lens through which we can critique more traditional forms. Thinking about megastructures shows us the problems that go unnoticed because of how ubiquitous and ingrained they are in the typical city and brings to light the ongoing burdens of the status quo.

[@Gamesaucer]

Something about that definition sounds a bit strange to me. Wouldn't that make many cities megastructures? - Cities are constructed of modular units, i.e. lots. - Cities can be extended while maintaining a legible shape, such as by extending a city grid outwards when creating new developments. - Cities have a structural framework consisting of streets and roads, that prevents properties from encroaching on right-of-way and keeps them accessible. - Buildings are very often demolished, whereas roads are only very rarely significantly changed. But a single lot can easily be demolished and rebuilt, without affecting the structure of the city in general. - Lots can be used for many different purposes. In fact, they can be used for all the purposes that a city fulfils. And I understand that this is a bit pedantic and probably pushes the limits on what it means to be modular, contained and extensible in this context, but I'm still curious what kind of more precise definition you could offer for these individual criteria that doesn't exclude things we might actually want to classify as megastructures. Or perhaps, this can raise the question of the ways in which our cities already approximate megastructures and whether that's a good or a bad thing. (Minus the part where it fulfils all the purposes that a city does, because that's obviously a bit pointless to argue about)

[@FreedomDaveX]

The thing I was hoping you would answer is who are all the people who actually are actually going to live in there. It’s hard for me to fathom the number of people it is planned for moving into such an absurd place. I’m wondering the background and motivation of everyone moving there. Is the plan to populate it mostly from outside or is the plan to have most of its residents born inside while it rolls out?

[@heunam3593]

They expect a Dubai effect, a handful of extremely rich people wanting isolation from the rest of the world in a very exclusive place, some "second tier" millonaires trying to flex, and what is esentially modern slave labour brought in from poor areas nearby. But lets be honest, this was never planned to work, its just a power move.

[@crazydragy4233]

There is no plan. It's just dumb egomaniacs showing us plebs the ridiculous power of money

[@kannanayagam6915]

1 thing to be sure , the line must need more AC than normal cause the wall is blocking Airflow , and also strong air current could break the wall .

[@dlt4videos]

All new architecture always ends up looking like clockwork orange, Thanks Stewart, your videos are always informative and balanced.

[@RichardLightburn]

When Renzo Piano designed the Modern Wing of the AIC his driving idea was "Zéro Gravity." This can be seen in how the walls don't quite reach the floors: there's Antony "reveal" there. Also, the glass of the windows seems to float out of the millions. Also the columns that hold up the brise social narrow down to a point so they barely touch the ground and seem to float.

[@PKAmedia]

The Line has many problems, the biggest is that it's most driving focus is just to be big and spend a lot of money. I'm sure the engineering firms that are working on it love that they can do all sort of wild designs, but they also are probably fully aware it's very unlikely anything other than the shortest section of this bloated mess will ever be built. Saudi has a long history of these sort of massive projects, never seen through and I mean they are hardly unique in that, but yeah everything about this city seems incredibly poorly thought through, and more about chasing buzz words and seeming sci-fi than actually doing something interesting in a practical way. When you look at the early designs where it was still a line but only one story with the a rail, road system underneath, it actually seemed, while a bit stupid feasible at least. And while if built it probably wouldn't of worked that well, at least it would of been an interesting case study in tat sort of linear design taken to a extreme so maybe some stuff could of been learnt from it.

[@daniel4647]

It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Originally it was supposed to be a free economic zone like Singapore or Madeira, it was supposed to take advantage of being by the Suez canal, a massive trade route. And initially, before they came up with the stupid line idea, it was focusing on things like renewable energy, automation, and attracting young innovators from all over the world to build it. It was supposed to be an semi-independent region that had different government from the rest of Saudi Arabia. Instead they ended up scrapping all that, hiring a bunch of former oil industry consultant and ended up with a stupid line for some reason. They have a ton of prime real estate all along the coast line, there could be marinas and docks and beaches and hotels that would have started pulling in people and money right away that would help fund the rest of the project. The desert area would probably work well for wind and solar farms. Salt water treatment plants could be built and irrigation of the land could begin and also start building up hydroponic farms and other food supply. There would have been a lot of potential for a big city there that would attract the kind of people they were originally asking for, a city that could have become very prosperous and a hub for innovation while bringing in non-oil wealth to Saudi Arabia, which was the plan. Instead they decided to turn it into some stupid vanity project for out of touch rich people.

[@neomaredi5922]

I ljve in Saudi, this project is nuts. They've actually broken ground which has blown my mind

[@DooWopCinderBlock]

Growing up I played SimCity 2000 and loved the concept of archologies. Would those be different from megaprojects? I didn't know megaproject had such a precise definition before.

[@fateshippping8370]

the first question makes me have a second question, do we need megastructures? and should we want to have mega structures like the wall? it feels like wanting a utopia idea

[@BrickfallOfficial]

I always find it odd how in designs such as Neom there’s never any acknowledgement that people may want to go outside. Rather, there is a huge amount of energy and time spent on bringing outside inside. To me there is something inherently oppressive about these types of ventures; from the flawed dystopian, narcissistic and often delusional ideas that spawned them. To the human rights violations often needed to keep construction costs low - in order to build them, and their ultimate failure as a vision. It feels something akin to Ceaușescu’s Palace of the Parliament but turned up to 11. I guess oligarchs and dictators are pretty much all the same in the end.

[@Byronic19134]

LOL yo what? It's in the middle of the desert! What would you want to go outside for?

[@crazydragy4233]

​@@Byronic19134 You dearly miss the point and actually the Line goes over a lot more than just the desert

[@thewittyusername]

You forgot the part where most sci fi depictions of megastructures are dystopian hellscapes.

[@orinblank2056]

I also feel like a large part of it is just an inherent human predilection for big things. No matter where you go, people generally have tried to build large things for as long as they have had the technology for. The pyramids and the Great Wall are good examples of this. Even today, if you drive through rural America you can see people advertising random big things, like the world's largest ball of string and such. And of course, our stories all have a tendency towards big things. You have the megastructures of science fiction of course, but you also have things like the Tower of Babel. And superhero stories are also full of villains making big weapons. And countries have been competing to build the biggest skyscrapers ever since we figured out how to make them. With our much greater modern technological capacity, it just seems logical that we would once again try to push the envelope of what we can build That being said, the line is a terrible idea and it will do so much damage to the local ecosystem that I just couldn't in good faith support it

[@crazydragy4233]

The pyramids are a great example for sure. So much energy wasted for vanity of a couple of men borderline delirious from the type of ridiculous "elevated" life they live

[@typha]

You realize that any city or town meets your definition of megastructure right? They have streets, sewers, subways, and utilities that are the base that the modules (houses on lots) are situated within. The base outlasts the individual modules which change over time, their design can be expanded outward, and they have a variety of different functions that make them "city-like". And cities/towns are often compared to both machines and biological systems. So then the answer to the question of will we have megastructures is rather trivially yes.

[@ьоь-ц1ж]

I think many people will be interested to learn about the terrible typology of construction in Russia and the countries of the post-Soviet space - huge typical towers without roads and infrastructure. For example: - Murino, Saint Petersburg - Prostorny, Novosibirsk

[@skyisreallyhigh3333]

No roads? Sounds lovely tbh

[@danilosuzuki]

The City in the Air: Shibuya Project (1:33), by Arata Isozaki has a striking resemblance with the Todai-ji Nandai-mon (the great southern gate of Todai-ji Temple in Nara), built around 762 and rebuilt in 1199. By the 1960's, the metabolist movement arose (although Isozaki did not considered himself a metabolist) and japanese architects were looking for a better way of merging modernity with tradition. The Metabolist Movement was considered avant-garde, but at the same time, they were trying to understand why those old structures such as Ise and Katsura Detached Palace, for example were still relevant to japanese people.

[@skyeleake9943]

I like your channel and have learned a lot, but I am going to echo what others have said, the line is really dumb and hard to be taken seriously. The title is click baity. The question you posed of "why is the future so full of megastructures" is way way better for a video title/topic in my opinion.

[@theaugur1373]

What I don’t get about Neom is the mirrored outer wall. Won’t it make the temperature of the ground just outside the city super hot?

[@krekcabnow2910]

I think there’s one more reason for a mega structure and that it’s just sometimes what makes sense in the story. Like I think in many instances it’s that they need a whole city or towns worth of people and they need them to be in space.

[@brettyates7054]

I'm from the UK and after the initial introduction tower blocks were largely rejected, despite the decades they remain a rare sight. The Grenfell disaster also did nothing to help their image. People just don't want to live like that and they've come to represent an inherent inhumanity in modern architecture.

[@GladmanNow]

Love that you are diving in to this topic.

[@Bnio]

Most proposed megastructures feel like problem-shuffling. They don't actually solve problems such as resources and energy efficiency, or transportation logistics, or managed growth. They just take the effort, funding and material that can be used in equally useful ways and gloms them together. All with the likely potential that these structures result in new problems conveniently back-burnered in the design and construction phases. Not a megastructure, but take that capsule tower in Tokyo from the 1970s that was recently dismantled. It's a nifty concept. Especially the notion of modular units that can be easily replaced and updated. But now each unit has five of its six sides exposed to outside weather and temperature and now you need to compensate with more insulation or air conditioning when a traditional block of flats is just far more efficient in that regard. Stuff like that. Megastructures are used in sci-fi because they're ambitiously easy. Like when movies try to invent future alien music and just make atonal whistles and bells. Yeah, it's different. Interesting even. And it does its job. But of course that's different than crafting an entirely new music system and theory as would have actually happened in an alien society.

[@giantisopod]

It's never going to be built in the first place, but even if it did, it would be abandoned within less than a year. Their goal is to have all of your daily needs within walking distance, but that means you'd need, for example, a hair dresser every 500m. The problem is they won't have enough customers to sustain themselves, unless you constantly subsidize everything. A 1D city just scales fundamentally differently than a 2D city because of the ratio of area and distance. There are only three possible outcomes here: a) businesses suffocate due to lack of customers b) everything is spaced really far apart, in which case nobody will want to live there c) everything is constantly subsidized and it's a huge moneysink. The outcome is always the same: A ghost city. But it will ever even get that far.

[@poetmaggie1]

It doesn't matter who outside of that country want the long city. I think it would be interesting to see how long it remains "linear."

[@Dan-ud8hz]

I met a traveller from an antique land, Who said-“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand, Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal, these words appear: My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.” - Percy Bysshe Shelley, Ozymandias

[@junahn1907]

The discussion of megastructures makes me think of the Kowloon Walled City.

[@dr.alahdal]

The line is one apart of the city Neom (Sindalah , THE LINE, Trojena. Oxagon.) And still a university, research centers, Airport and other thing are to be announced in time.

[@theinventiveidiot]

I’M TWO WEEKS LATE, BUT ANOTHER VIDEO ABOUT THE LINE? HELL YEA.

[@EnneaIsInterested]

It's so fascinating, in a sense, megastructures are like another form, similar to a holobiome; we and our material cultures become the subsidiary units of the megastructure, much like our own bodies are 1-3% microbiome.

[@stevenw2933]

The best example of a megastructure by the definition given here is probably Kowloon Walled City, one "continuous structure" of thousands of modular units, a unique phsyical and legal framework that acts as the superstructure, self contained ecosystem, built and rebuilt continuously over 100+ years, 50,000 residents, 1.9 million residents per square km in density.

[@bennorwood8433]

Personally I have a better design in mind why not build a train or technically a monorail in the middle of the city then have wider walls to company apartments and bridges. Also put walkways along the walls and put some glass and dark spots on top to give a perfect amount of shade and light also make the windows that show the outside beyond walkways or because the walkway will not be at the same location throughout the city put it in restaurant so you can look out and have a nice view.

[@dur7021]

I really enjoyed the technical explanation of the term ‘megastructure’. ❤ Subscribed!

[@killhour]

This sounds weird, but by most of those definitions of megastructures, wouldn't the most common real-world example be a mall or even a skyscraper? The layouts of the individual spaces change all the time and host many tenants, but the superstructure stays the same.

[@nlpnt]

Malls have a sharply limited number of functions, though. Traditionally just retail and for a time in the '00s almost exclusively clothing. It's only in recent years when they've become hungry for tenants that they've started to expand into things like library branches and healthcare offices.

[@juppa]

I think if you have a large building with a mall with all the functions one would need to survive, with residences, offices, hotels, governmental functions etc., you could?

[@dj1NM3]

I think shopping malls in Australia tend to me more like megastructures, with apartments usually built in a tower or towers above the retail space. In the more recent decades, apartment complexes are being built with retail spaces around their ground floors, but because of the way financing is run*, tend to remain empty for years after completion. *the banks refuse to allow the building owners (Usually a strata company. Which I guess is a bit like an American HOA, but for an apartment block?) to reduce the commercial lease rates, because it supposedly "reduces the value of the building and value of the loan" even though an empty shop is costing its owner in maintenance/upkeep rather than generating at least some or any revenue at all.

[@darinbauer8122]

*GOOD POINT!* With soo many homeless people and Soo many abandoned malls... You are a genius sir!

[@HrHaakon]

@@nlpnt Depends on where in the world you live. My local mall has had a library in it for decades. It used to have daycare facilities as well. A bit further out, people are starting to experiment with apartments almost in the mall. A megamall is pretty much a megastructure.

[@musikSkool]

The point is you can walk to several businesses near your house. Your house is with 2 blocks of everything you need; food/work/shopping. If you need to go further, there is a subway.

[@chessboxtv]

I think this concept ought better be called a "metastructure", as opposed to megastructure. If the definition is meant to mean a large outer structure that contains smaller modules, then the prefix "meta" would strike closer to the heart of the concept imo. "mega" just implies largeness.