Steyr-Solothurn S2-200: the Austrian MG30 and Hungarian 31M

[@gavinhammond1778]

Love the Royal Armoury. 'It's as rare as rocking horse shit...We have two". Thanks for the content.

[@Kav.]

Actually they have more like 3-4 from memory. When I went there (to look at the British Trials Solothurn) I remember seeing about that many. You can find them as items: PR.319, 6990, 11978, 7029 on their website (I just checked after writing the first part) (Edit coz I was dumb and forgot PR.7029 is a belt fed later gun, not one of the mag fed Solothurns)

[@gavinhammond1778]

@@Kav. Thanks mate for taking the time to reply so effectively. Have a lovely day.

[@mikehipperson]

2 rocking horses?

[@voiceofraisin3778]

@@mikehipperson Captive breeding programme, its too early to release them back into the wild though.

[@yt.602]

I'm fortunate that I live about 15 miles from the Royal Armoury, so go there quite often it's a really good display museum and of course has a huge reference collection which Ian plunders finding the weird, wonderful and unicorns. Great vid. The Forgotten Weapons museum is a real thing :)

[@venator5]

Hungarian here. Coincidentally the hungarian words also start with the same letters. E stands for "Egyes lövés" (Single shot) S for "Sorozatlövés" (literally chain fire). T on the safety stands for "Tűzkész" (Fire ready) Z for "Zárt" (locked)

[@jefferybaxter6474]

😂 According to built in comment translator “here” stands for for testicle. lol I was confused when I looked back at the first two words in your comment after hitting the translate button.

[@venator5]

@@jefferybaxter6474 I was the one who was confused when I was learning english and meet the here world quiet often.

[@zbigniewgurak8261]

@ venator5 Thanks, brother (Lengyel here) !

[@robertsloan2877]

Here

[@dauber221]

In German it stands for "Schnellfeuer" (fast fire) and "Einzelfeuer"(Single shot), so it works for both. I think he tried to say "sicher", that means "save".

[@Darth-Nihilus1]

I can see a Star Wars Stormtrooper or Clone trooper running around with this. 1920’s to early 1930’s has a bunch of really neat designs.

[@michaelshelton5488]

A lot of Star Wars guns were based on actual historical guns

[@lucashenry6281]

This does look a lot like the first generation of Clone blaster rifles.

[@donjones4719]

1930s sci fi illustrations often used the latest cutting-edge industrial designs and turned them up to 11. This established the basic look of what sci fi is *supposed* to look like. IIRC there are gun illustrations from that era that look something like this. Also, this influenced the MG-34 stock and that influenced a *lot* of sci fi guns. George Lucas famously filled the first Star Wars movies with WW2-derived military designs.

[@lucashenry6281]

@@donjones4719 trust me, gun designers couldn’t care less about aesthetics when the name of the game is functionality.

[@aaron6178]

I believe the stormtrooper blaster was indeed developed from the FG-42. I recall a documentary where producers explained that Lucas' budget was so small that most of the uniforms and weapons were props dragged out from the studio's extensive history of ww2 movie production. Bit of paint and random crap bolted on and hey presto. Pretty cool.

[@IRico_chetI]

The S on the trigger most definetly is not for "Sicher", since that means "safe". It probably refers to "Schnellfeuer" or "rapid fire"

[@matatron.]

The R on the gear stick stands for "Race Mode"!

[@42ZaphodB42]

So it doesn't stand for Sexy Mode?

[@petrimakela5978]

​@@42ZaphodB42Everyone knows S-mode is sport!

[@DiffrentPets]

Sicher could also mean "sure" or "of course" so it makes sense

[@theViece]

yes, "schnell" would make a lot more sense in this context

[@peterstadlmaier3107]

Austrian Military: "We want this gun, but it is too expensive." Rheinmetall: "You can save 5 bucks if you do without the front handle" Austrian Military: "Deal!"

[@arjen7024]

I could watch you wax lyrical about interwar LMGs for hours, this video is peak forgotten weapons

[@simoncleret]

Having the lugs rotate around the bolt is neat.

[@monkeyfarmer1138]

The technical term for the rotating "locking collar" is called a fermeture nut.

[@simoncleret]

@monkeyfarmer1138 "Fermeture" meaning either a thing that closes or the act of closing in French

[@pyro4squirrel]

That bolt, locking ring, and barrel extention look like a lightsaber

[@AtlasJotun]

Certainly looks like it would excel in melee lol

[@JTD19881369]

I was definitely going to say that. Lol. Thank God they used a flash bulb and not this

[@majinojinn]

Tin magazine coatings is a rare three requirement nexus: cheap, rust resistant, and low friction to get them out of pouches rapidly.

[@justindunlap1235]

Plus tinning is a ridiculously quick and easy process compared to other finishing options.

[@attilatoth5955]

The Hungarian magazines were coated with cadmium to prevent corrosion. Their capacity was 25 pieces of 8x56R mm ammunition. The capacity of the magazine of the 43M light machine gun was 30 pieces of 7.92x57mm ammunition.

[@Einwetok]

If they only knew then.

[@TheZinmo]

Thanks from Austria. But one thing should have been said: Austria and Hungary both had similar restrictions in their after-WWI-treaties as Germany had. Maybe not as stringend in what they could produce, but certainly in the size of their armies and their armaments. So these are rare (too) because Austrians and Hungarians were only allowed a limited number.

[@gregkollaeg2365]

Go to the weapon museum in Solothurn! Its really nice.

[@GarbageDeplorableBitterClinger]

Agreed, and dirt cheap considering what's there, and that it's in Switzerland.

[@phileas007]

and they even let you borrow stuff if you ask nicely.

[@donjones4719]

I love tubular guns - SMG's, a couple of pistols - and now an automatic rifle.

[@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke]

Wow! Thanks Ian!!! something I hoped for many years you would do a video on... you can see the evolution to the MG-34.

[@holyarch-kek9451]

Oooh, I've been waiting for a video on this one for years!

[@darkiee69]

The carry handle might be a loaders handle, so the loader have something, other than the hot barrel, to hold on to when getting the mag in and out.

[@Getpojke]

I was wondering if it could be that or for the operator during walking fire?

[@NikkoJT]

@@Getpojke I don't think it would be very useful for the shooter to hold. It's very close to the pistol grip, so it wouldn't balance the weight well and you wouldn't get much leverage.

[@williestyle35]

Last time I was this early to a Forgotten Weapons video, Ian still did "mud tests" with Karl on InRangeTV The Austrian M 30 disassembled is hilariously overbuilt and complicated, but about par for the course of this era of recoil operated firearms. Thank you Ian! I definitely enjoyed this video. 😊

[@Goc4ever]

The S2-200 really is one of a kind, one of the first guns that led to the birth of the concept of general-purpose machine gun. This MG would be crazy if it were used as a club in melee combat.

[@michaelshelton5488]

"This is full auto only. There's no semi auto setting. Also there's a double trigger, the top is single shot and the bottom is full auto." How very German. 🤣

[@billysunday7507]

Wrong

[@MarkErikEE]

@@billysunday7507 Why wrong? Interweb sources say the same thing for trigger - E for semi-auto, S for full auto.

[@billysunday7507]

@MarkErikEE try again. You're wrong also.

[@michaelshelton5488]

If anyone is wrong. It's Ian. My comment was just a quote from the video.

[@megamintlgb4390]

wrong ​@@billysunday7507

[@hankskorpio5857]

Being a big Star Wars fan as a kid cold war era gun aesthetics just will always have a special in my heart lol

[@cooperharrell6984]

I remember this gun from bfv actually, wasn’t very good there but it was unique looking and I always wondered about its story so thanks Ian

[@Reskilober]

It would have been ok with a bigger magazine but LMG mag size and MMG mechanics just wasn't a good combo

[@cooperharrell6984]

@@Reskilober yep

[@Blondie-Actual]

It was great in a flank, or a really tight capture point, but it should've been a Lmg.

[@SlaveKnightGael1579]

Whoever at Dice decided to put it in the MMG class is a moron

[@vaportrails1]

I liked it cuz it was accurate and i got a lot of headshots with it

[@generalbrus8627]

I bet the "S" stands for "Schnellfeuer" and not for "sicher" sicher means safe, Schnellfeuer means "fast fire" as in full auto,

[@Dummvogel]

I agree. Einzelfeuer and Schnellfeuer.

[@michaelshelton5488]

I always look forward to an interesting Forgotten Weapons video to watch on my morning break.

[@svenjonsson9]

It is like a MG15, MG34 and an FG42 had a baby! So interesting to see how both the MG34 and FG42 took features from this design.

[@patrickporter1864]

Except that this the mom of them all. .

[@MTODbasics]

The silhouette of this immediately took my brain to Tusken raiders from Star Wars. Interesting firearm.

[@nemallasuevasesaelpdog]

It's quite the amazing design. Not to mention the technicality Compared to today. Quality....Soo cool. Lov seeing the mg34 in it

[@petesheppard1709]

That is a slick little gun; I can see how mountain infantry would find it very practical.

[@aaron6178]

MG and FG all the way. All the variants are cool, and they work really well. The fact that the MG3 has been in continuous service in West (and unified) Germany since 1959 speaks volumes. About 1200 volumes per minute in angry mode...

[@Darthdoodoo]

I wish we had a huge museum of guns where u can play with all the stuff throughout history and see all the cool mechanics in action

[@Ashmoleon2006]

Heck, slap some greeblies on it and maybe some kinda wonky ww2 era optic and you've got yourself a star wars weapon there. In fact i might hit up our star wars ttrpg GM about my character using something similar to this for his light repeating blaster.

[@vaportrails1]

The S2-200 is one of my favorite MG's in Battlefield V

[@arthurbrax6561]

the Austrian MG30s got rechambered to 8mm Mauser once they joined Germany. During the war, Hungary eventually adopted the 8mm Mauser as its standard round and late war 31Ms got made in that round with the new name 43M. There was a Hungarian website about small arms used by them in ww2, it said that 2000 or 3000 31Ms got bought directly from Solothurn and then they got a license and made around 10-12 thousands. I cant find the website but if I do I will edit this comment.

[@jon-paulfilkins7820]

Nice. Decades ago I started tabletop wargaming. Got into WW2 with a Barbarossa Campaign. Decided that there were enough German players so coin tossed for Hungarians or Finns, Got Hungarians, so been interested in their unique items ever since.

[@cynthiakoehne7004]

this bolt roller cam system is almost exactly what I imagine how a modern .44 magnum carbine would work, simplified of course!

[@etiennelamarche7796]

Mannn what a beautiful light machine gun, I love the esthetics

[@erichthered]

Great video I appreciate all of your content. The backup cart guns are really fun. Cheers sir.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Had me with "Hotchkiss Portable"! Always did think these triggers pure genius. Thank you Sr. Thanks for letting all of US take a look.

[@wallacemoore2398]

The front sight post is a very interesting idea.

[@spondulixtanstaafl7887]

An elegant weapon, of a more civilized age.

[@Skelbton]

It seems like it would make sense as an automatic rifle more than a light machine gun, it’s about the same weight as the BAR, more or less.

[@imadequate3376]

Ive always liked the angled grip's placement. Looks like you could earlly dig that bipod in and fire quite accurate bursts or even a longer pull if you needed to.

[@MrChidorinagashi10]

About to go watch the archduke ferdinand doc again

[@bitfreakazoid]

Whoa. That safety selector ring is super awesome. I don't believe I've seen any others like that before and wonder if any have.

[@Sugarmountaincondo]

Right off the bat I can see some similarities of this being developed into the FG-42. I really love when you cover the very rare & unique guns from all periods of military use just because I am that type of a guy that loves the obscure stuff. 👍👍❤

[@josephd27]

This is why I watch this guy. Learning about guns i didn't even know existed 😊

[@jimbean583]

I really like that you mentioned the fact about el Salvador i had no idea! My dads from there so thats pretty cool

[@TakNuke]

Can you do video on the later Hungarian 7.92x57mm mauser version?

[@ReidMerrill]

I've been waiting for this for so long

[@fogogin]

Its looks to be in remarkablely good condition given its scarcity. Pretty cool weapon.

[@prdubi]

Peter Kokalis did an extensive review and breakdown of the El Salvadoran Steyr Solothorn in 7mm Mauser. It was a fascinating article as he said it is most likely virtually none of them was extensively used by the military. They were all in heavy cosmoline and well packed in the back of the Salvadorian military storage. I saw him at the SAR show back in the 2000s and he was selling pretty rare magazines for these machine guns. It wouldn't surprise me if he brought it back from his time in El Salvador.

[@enricopaolocoronado2511]

I like how this machine gun looks. It's like an FG42 but Austrian.

[@Elatenl]

But made in Germany lol, so it's like an FG42.

[@102ndsmirnov7]

@@Elatenl Or rather, it's like an FG42

[@jackknall9966]

@@Elatenl but ian said its not made in germany afaik, so really its more designed in germany, made in austria, assembled in germany

[@Elatenl]

@@jackknall9966 Oh then I haven't paid attention lol, i though it was fully made in germany and then exported.

[@sarath431]

My thoughts, exactly

[@Spectrecontrol]

That is one sweet looking gun, would be interesting to see how it goes on the range

[@francoisfouche4700]

I really hope that you do the video on the S3-200. I think that the belt feed mechanism is really cool.

[@Kaboomf]

Interesting, you can plainly see they tried to make as much as possible on a lathe as you said. The locking lugs are really just interrupted threads with an almost square thread form, you can cut both the internal and external ones on a lathe then do the interruptions on a shaper or even just by running the lathe carriage back and forth with the spindle stationary. The cam tracks for the locking piece rollers also seem like they can be cut on a lathe with the required gearing for really coarse threads.

[@magamike1800]

That forward grip seems to make a lot of sense if it can be used to hold the barrel down. We all had a lot of trouble trying to keep second rounds on a figure 11 when trying to qualify.

[@richardsalsman1069]

Really elegant design

[@panzerman22]

The machining is amazing on that lmg ...

[@thelaughinghyenas8465]

Cool! I hope you have lots more Royal Armory goodies to come.

[@clusterstudio18]

Been waiting for this one for many years!

[@markoneil6562]

Man that is a mean looking front sight! Looks like the Devils horns or something.

[@Cartoondude135]

I almost mistook it for an MG-34.

[@papajohones4290]

Ive been waiting so long to see this gun show up on here

[@JinSakai-s4w]

The 43M machine gun was produced in Hungary in a very limited quantity, approximately 1,000 units or fewer, in a version chambered for the 8mm Mauser caliber.

[@viaggiomagico]

I always thought that this weapon would be the ideal light machine gun for the Italian Army, because it was ready and available in time to take the place of poor Breda 30. Furthermore, we would have to develop our heavy machine gun - belt fed obviously - from this MG30, in collaboration with Hungary and Austria, instead of wasting time and money updating Fiat 14 and after that with Breda 37 MG, a WW1 machine gun in concept, with a ridiculous 20 round magazine. Thanks for this video Ian🙂🙏

[@scubasteve3743]

Would love to see the belt fed version as well.

[@matthaught4707]

You're probably the best person to ask, but does that French-style big front sight post with the channel cut in it actually work as intended? It looks like the French gave up on it after a while, but I never could tell if that was because it simply didn't work, or if it was an economy measure to make the guns cheaper and simpler to manufacture.

[@lonestar16oz]

Nice one Ian. Great explanation of the workings.

[@danschneider9921]

I love the bold way the Hungarians marked their weapons during this period. Like they are almost yelling at you

[@smallwonder843]

Very cool looking gun. Mechanically it seems to be not so complicated, but it is a massive pain in the lower back to manufacture. So much machining to be done😮

[@Kav.]

Ian I am begging you to find one of these to shoot. I had previously been doing some digging on the British trials Solothurn and so have actually seen the same gun you are showing in this video (along with the fantastic Serial 1004 British trials gun) Shooting footage seems to just not exist and images are really scarce. It's strange that such a widely used weapon (I mean, relatively) is so absent of documentation.

[@Snicshavo]

Poor mans FG-42 I met this gun in Scorched Earth and ended up liking it

[@heaven-is-real]

no belt fed????what the...❤

[@TheManglerMaster]

Me too man

[@alexcanplaygames5270]

My fav gun in SE.

[@TheManglerMaster]

@@alexcanplaygames5270 It's like, an assault rifle with a bipod and several 4kg weights strapped to It

[@exuberance3973]

I saw this while playing Battlefield 5 not too long ago and of course the gun-seer saint himself makes a video on it

[@Fawnarix]

My interest peaked when the similarity between the Hotchkiss Portative was mentioned.

[@MichaelSanteler-h7b]

See if you can fine a Japanese Howa type 64 .308 to review!!!! I just learned about this rifle, however there isn’t a lot out there.

[@wangl601]

The machining is insane! Yeah no wonder why this thing was not as popular as something like ZB26 or DP

[@mattbeebe1288]

that was one of my favorite guns in battlefield

[@Zajuts149]

It makes sense that they were mostly used in Gebirgsjäger units, as most of the early ones were former Austrian regiments.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Fascinating weapon. I wonder what the rate of fire was. A 20 round mag would get dumped very quickly.

[@aldoraul13]

¹Forgotten Weapons! I have been following for almost 6 years daily and never grow tired of the arms education and most intensely the beautiful HISTORY

[@tomppeli.]

Such an elegant looking machinegun

[@davidkenworthy2403]

Thank you for another excellent video!

[@davissampson3991]

The ‘S’ on the trigger is for ‘Schnellfeuer’ or automatic fire.

[@samhat41]

i was in the leeds royal armoury this week, it is amazing, you should visit there

[@anonplayer8529]

So, now you just have to stick to Jonathans sleeve, look at him with best puppy eyes and repeat "...please,please,pleaase,please,please,...".😅

[@KonradSeverinHilstad]

It's a German-Austrian-Swiss recoil operated, rear locking, magazine fed hotchkiss portative...

[@cynthiakoehne7004]

I still see MG-34's used around the world to this day, so somebody built something right!

[@rays.5764]

Wish there were more modern guns with side mounted mags.

[@frandm1987]

I made a fantastic use of that MG in Battlefield V.

[@frankyg2384]

With some tape or a strip of leather you could almost use the firing pin/striker assembly as a makeshift stabbing weapon!

[@Ox33cae]

18:11 interesting to learn that the machine guns speak german ;^)

[@davidcox3076]

It's surprising the initial export sales were almost non-existent. Pretty handy LMG for the interwar years. Especially with so many countries already using Mauser ammo.

[@treintaceroseis3081]

Realmente admirable. Pero pensando en cada paso de manufactura necesario para esta arma, ya me hizo doler la cabeza...

[@JustaKubrickFan]

That piece sure is purdy.

[@ES90344]

Was just reading about this one in "German Machineguns".

[@jrooney58]

Regarding the manufacturing numbers, the Austrian Army was limited to 30,000 men and the Hungarian Army was limited to 35,000 men. Both armies were limited to 15 machine guns (both heavy and light, with automatic rifles and carbines counting towards this total) per 1000 soldiers. That means, production would be limited to less than 1000 guns between the two countries. The Treaty of St Germain limited Austria to one arms factory controlled by the state. Importation and export of arms by Austria was prohibited. I haven’t seen the actual text of the Treaty of Trianon with Hungary, but I assume that they had a similar prohibition on arms production as Austria. That means that Solothurn would have to license production to two different entities. It’s clear from these restrictions that a general purpose gun makes more sense than dividing the production between heavy and light models like the Allied armies tended to do.

[@TheBlu04]

Sometimes I think things are old, but hearing that Rheinmetall started in the late 1800s surprised me

[@xgford94]

Ah we are back to the F91W period aka the Pre-Marathon era . I feel the James Rupley effect in action

[@Alex.LeJeune]

My brain the entire time talking about the bolt and receiver. "This would make a sick lightsaber model"

[@geraldmaybebaby1585]

The trigger is a neat idea. Being able to switch modes with a simple change of finger position.

[@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke]

copied on the famous MG34

[@bikkiikun]

FYI, the 'S' on the trigger is like for "Schnellfeuer" (= rapid fire, i.e. auto fire). "Sicher" on the other hand means "safe".