Stop Chasing the Perfect Sound

Did my chase for the perfect vinyl sound lead me off the rails of my audiophile journey?
Buy a Joy of Vinyl t-shirt!: www.etsy.com/s...
Find out more at JoyOfVinyl.com
Written & Produced by Rick Coste
You can learn more about Rick and his work at RickCoste.com

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Please tap LIKE and SUBSCRIBE ❤ If you'd like to help support the channel, please visit the shop: www.amazon.com/shop/thejoyofvinylrecords Lots of great things coming up with the show. Thank you for being here!

[@SuperSagedal]

Nice video as always. It`s like chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow 😁 Sometimes we have to stop and smell the roses. In the end you can of course tear down your house and rebuild it with the "perfect sound" in mind. I once saw a TV program about someone who actually did it here in Norway. So, have a great weekend and enjoy your stereo and of course your records 👍 All the best from Norway 😁

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Cheers Ole Bernt! Can you imagine if I said to my wife "I'm sorry but I have to tear the house down to build a better vinyl room." 🤣🤣

[@johnport7937]

Agree totally!!! Other than equipment though, chasing for better sounding pressings also kills time which you would otherwise spend on listening to the music

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Great call out there. I've gone into the maze of finding better pressings for some of my favorites recently. I have a feeling it will be even more so in 2024.

[@TheBalomar]

Great post, as ever, many of us, the crazy audiophile, has been this experience.

[@danielgeiger7739]

I hear you. I try to be clear of what I am doing at a particular time: fiddling or listening. Even listening, occasionally I like to listen analytically, sometimes rather get an overall impression. Sometimes I listen just for enjoyment, sometimes I write a post as I listen. The biggest source of frustration is when someone moves the speakers (e.g. for cleaning the floors) and then it all looks ok, but the sound is off. WTF?!? I did not change anything. What is going on? And then I remember that speakers can be moved, particularly every other Tuesday.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Lol... it does drive me crazy. I think I mentioned this before (can't recall), but I have the speakers positions marked with black electrical tape on the floor. When they are moved it looks like a speaker crime scene.

[@louismartinez7387]

I'm with you Rick, I've been an audiophile for more than forty years now and for years I lost sight of my reason for becoming one: THE MUSIC!! I spent hours analyzing equipment rather than listening to and enjoying what was playing before me. Now rather than analyzing so much, I try to feel what the music is about, and if the recording is a decent one with openess and air, then that's good enough for me!!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Hi Louis! I'm getting there. I feel I'm more a work in progress than my system is at time!

[@timhewtson6212]

Great show! In my twenties and thirties, when vinyl and cassettes were the thing, I definitely bought into the importance of amps, speakers, turntables and cassette players. After all, having been brought up with a gramaphone with a 2" speaker and no bass, there was much room for improvement. And I'm guessing that part of the fun of playing vinyls today is that you can salivate over the equipment, and not just the playing equipment. There is one guy I follow with enthusiasm who has an entire setup for cleaning discs: a turntable, a brush, presumably some chemicals, and a vacuum cleaner with a hose right by the brush. I used to work for 3M/Scotch, and so was very aware of the analog / digital debate in recording studios, but the sound goes very much further than the playback equipment. Vinyl pressing can definitely be an issue, but before that there is production and mixing. Throwing at least some instruments 40% into the left and right channels really opens up the sound - not most of the instruments, as you definitely don't want to lose the center. Then before the production and mixing, it's what amps and special effects you use, and where you place the microphones. And, indeed, the acoustics of the room. Currently, much of this is out of the hands of the listener, but probably not for long. With AI's ability to separate instruments from within a channel, it can't be long before you will be able to buy separated tracks and be able to mix your favorite music exactly as you want it. As we have seen from the various Steven Wilson projects, which music obsessive won't want that option? I have a particular hatred for the David Bowie production on Mott the Hoople's 'All the Young Dudes' album. What would I give to get hold of the track separations to give the rocker tracks on the album a wider sound and more bass? There is a particular sound that the music industry is obsessed with nowadays. It's a bit like every piano passage has to sound like it was played on a Steinway or every violin has to sound like a Stradivarius (and every guitar sound like a PRS or high-end Gibson). I think this perfectionist obsession is hideous. Everything sounds homogenized, especially after it has been compressed. Whereas, the actual mix should reflect the intent of the music of each track, of each band. But being able to remix your favorite songs by buying a bundle of separated tracks and remixing them yourself, at home, that will be even bigger than vinyl. You can buy all the equipment to do that. You can add in your own special effects. You will obviously need only the very best amplifiers and speakers etc. Nerdy heaven! OK, let's compare our mixes, guys. Mine are best!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's incredible insight Tim. With the work that Peter Jackson's team has done with being able to separate tracks from old recordings (ie. The Beatles, etc), your vision of a future where a music lover with the right equipment can purchase individual tracks for their own mixes is very prescient. I can see myself doing that given the chance.

[@wanderlustjohn]

Well said brother...as a fellow analog all tube signal path junkie myself, we need to be reminded that we love music...not gear.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I’m a work in progress 🤣

[@bobbyyounger7632]

OK, third times a charm...just subscribed. Another enjoyable vinyl vlog ! So true on how we always tweak our set up like we will ultimately find that perfect sweet spot, lol. After 40 years of various different equipment and set ups I can say currently I am totally satisfied with my sound space and equipment. My recent new vinyl experience has been the purchase of my first Half Speed master record and am so enjoying it, I can tell a difference, and am excited on obtaining more half speed recordings.....although it will be limited to die hard fave albums because of high cost. Happy New Year and all the best !

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Happy New Year to you as well Bobby! Do you mind my asking which half-speed master you've been enjoying?

[@bobbyyounger7632]

ABBA THE VISITORS by Abbey Road Half Speed. I avoided these half speeds due to price But took a chance on this one telling myself I would immediately send it back for a refund if I couldn't tell an obvious difference of sound quality. I am certainly keeping it and now looking back on previous year releases only to realize that these half speeds are most usually limited production editions. So some of them no longer available and the ones you do find on ebay or elsewhere are two to three times the original high price ! Thanks for asking Rick !@@TheJoyofVinylRecords

[@kurjan1]

Why I love B&O. Not only does it look amazing in the space, but it is simple. Plug it in and leave it alone. There is nothing to tweak. And, it sounds amazing.

[@perlman7376]

Fantastic! Which or what specific B&O system? Thanks for any response.

[@kurjan1]

@@perlman7376 I have a few different systems around the home. In my music room I am running a Beosound 9000 MkII, a Beogram 4002 hardwire connected to BeoLab 50 speakers. I also have a Beosound 3200 connected to BeoLab 8000s. I also have a few sets of 6000s and a BeoCentre 9000 which is not working and needs repair.

[@MykeWinters]

I know what you mean, lol. I did the same, but I couldn’t afford the good stuff, so I stopped fussing, and tuned my ears to what I had available and what I could afford at the time. The minimum was a good bass sound. I now have a separates system, not too fancy or expensive, but it’s sounds fantastic to my ears and I’m happy to listen my music through it with no issues or being picky. When I play “Wish you were here” it’s sounds great and when I play something heavy like “Master of Puppets” it’s also great….im in heaven, lol

[@mariocassar6087]

The culprits are the equipment reviewers….they invent atmospheres and adjectives to lure us audiophiles with the ultimate perfect sound!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Ah yes - the adjectives. It makes me want to compile all those adjectives and create a translation book.

[@sidesup8286]

But after enough effective upgrades, some of those adjectives really start to make sense. Although I still can't picture what a chocolatey midrange is. The dance section of The Nutcracker puts food and drink to music.The music of The Arabian Dance puts the taste of coffee to music. Tea is put to music in The Chinese Dance. Trepak is put to music in The Russian Dance, and yes, Chocolate is put to music in the Spanish Dance, as in the 1800s, Spain was where people would sail for the world's finest chocolate back then. Considered a real delicacy. Once again, it's difficult to ferret out what is just hype or real; until you have experienced it yourself. "Perfect" sound reproduction is reproducing what is on the recording perfectly. That is far different than "perfect" musical"realism" which cannot be achieved. But at some lofty point of excellence, it doesn't really matter. Sadly, I think few audiophiles have reached that point; that's why they are constantly thinking of upgrading.

[@MarkMiller-i8q]

The proverbial search for the Holy Grail that never ends. For some, this endless, ongoing journey is fun, even with the potential expense involved. My journey ended years ago after buying the ADS 1230s speakers. I've heard loads of speakers since then (in audio-visual shops and private homes) but none that wowed me enough to part with my 1230s. I'm also content with my Sumiko blue point #2 cartridge. Because it's been discontinued, I'll need to go to a #3 when the #2 wears out. Or maybe something else.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I've added the Sumiko to my list of potential MC when I take the dive into that world sometime next year - budget permitting.

[@MarkMiller-i8q]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work. As you probably know, the Sumiko is a high output moving coil. No need for a step-up transformer.

[@davidhannalpc7169]

Timely video for me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

You're welcome David!

[@Newrecordday2013]

Amen! Subscribed!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks! It means a lot. Cheers!

[@redstarwraith]

I went down that rabbit hole with my old Tekton speakers. I got a pair of Pendragons which I really liked. They sounded very good in my room. Hey! I was happy! And then I started thinking . . . "Well, the Double Impact Monitors surely deliver EVEN MORE of what I'm liking in these Pendragons!" Soooo... I boxed up the Pendragons. Shipped them back to Tekton (that was NOT cheap!) and waited for my brand new, upgraded Double Impact Monitors to arrive. Fast forward: I never could get them to sound as good as the less expensive, smaller Pendragons did in my room. That was an expensive lesson for me. I still think of al the vinyl I could have bought instead of pi**ing it away, chasing audio dragons...

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I hope you don't mind if I steal that phrase "chasing audio dragons". That's exactly what it is!

[@redstarwraith]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords have at it!

[@thinkIndependent2024]

Ok had flood in the main bedroom had to move speakers ( not back the way I want it yet) .. Christmas tree in the living room covering one speaker( can't wait to take it down) You are right if I had band on demand to play right in front of me ? There would be songs they didn't cover right. Yet there is still " JoY " thanks again for a open honest view in a world that has few.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I'm rwally sorry to hear about the flood. 😞 I hope all is okay and that any damage is reversible. Here's to a better year ahead! May it be full of joy.

[@davidquinn6481]

I think it was Alan Parsons who said, "audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music, they use your music to listen to their equipment". I always try to focus on the music, and not the equipment. Not always an easy task.

[@NoEgg4u]

There is no perfect sound. Agreed. That should not stop you from seeking excellence in sound quality. People that excel in all walks of life are seeking a level of perfection, or something similar. They likely know that they will never achieve actual perfection. But their determination with seeking perfection (or excellence) makes them a success. Seeking perfection in sound quality has been a fun journey, with ups and downs. But overall, I have had the good fortune to hear music like few people have heard. I have had the hair stand up on the back of my neck (sort of), from time to time, after hearing wildly great sound quality. Without seeking perfection, I would probably be listening to a Walmart stereo, and I would never have found my local high-end store and heard what I heard. When you hear such amazing sound quality, you become "one" with the artists. You can feel their presence, and what they are conveying with their sonic work of art. It is more than just the melody, when you can hear the space and the texture of the instruments. On the flip side, seeking perfection with sound quality is aggravating, because you cannot control the often lousy job the personnel in the studio do for so many artists. And no artist is spared. Whether it's The Beatles, Michael Jackson, or Norman Greenbaum, the studio personnel mess up hit song after hit song. We are at their mercy, and that is hard to accept -- but accept it we must. If they knew what they were doing, we would not have a re-master to fix their original release. And we would not have a re-re-master to fix their first re-master, and end up still playing the original release which sounds better than both re-masters. So seeking out the perfect sound is seriously hampered by the all-too-often incompetent work by anonymous studio personnel. It is not all bad. They do release some amazing sounding songs. But those are the exception, when they should be the rule. I would love to give credit where credit is due. But the names of the studio personnel that recorded, mixed, and mastered the songs are kept locked in a vault at Area 51. We read and hear about them from time-to-time. But it is not like when a movie is released, and we see all of the credits. When I have the exact same song that is on 3 different complications, and they all differ in sound quality... well... how did that happen, and who did it? For me, I was infected when The Dark Side Of The Moon got release to CD. My brother took me into a high-end store in Manhattan (where they were cordial, but gave their attention to actual customers). But I got to hear one song from The Dark Side Of The Moon on their flagship stereo. That was when I caught the perfection bug. They played that album, because their customer wanted to hear that album. My brother told them that he has the CD with him, and they declined his offer. They played their vinyl pressing. We did not understand why. They told us that the vinyl was better. At that time, we believed that CDs were the holy grail of sound quality. When they were done with the customer, they played one of the songs for us. I don't remember which one. From that day, I always wanted that sound quality for myself. Lastly, when you make changes to your stereo, keep it to a maximum of 1 at a time. Otherwise, if something goes afoul, it is hard to know which change is responsible. Perhaps both? I am afraid to move my speakers. They sound very good where they are. Could they sound better? Perhaps. But I am too chicken to take a chance.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That is so true. I just received 3 of the Giles Martin Beatles remixes for Christmas and love what I've heard so far. Also Pink Floyd's 2018 _Animals_ remix, and it's amazing. We most definitely are at the mercy of the personnel who originally mastered an album or remastered it at a later date. Even the pressing plant.

[@carminedesanto6746]

GM ☕️ Be thankful for you’re able to indulge in your passions at a level that makes you ..if no one else smile. The one thing I always say ..the set up ( the ROOM) is an integral component. Hence , thats why I went with headphones…. May the New Year bring joy to you and yours.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks Carmine! @neilfisher7999 also mentioned headphones a few minutes ago. What are you using?

[@carminedesanto6746]

Headphones driven by a Bryston BHA-1 headphone amp / preamp. I tend to bounce between my AUDEZE LCDX ( 2021 edition), Sen’s 650’ and HiFiman400i ( 2020 edition) …I also may be adding an LCD2 in the new year. Oh, btw ..I do run an Xduoo 604 class A hybrid tube amp…for when I want some tube flavor.😊 I have a more extensive stable of IEM’s..my preference in portability. But headphones are for the most part the more approachable option…when room and living conditions aren’t conducive to room systems. Hope that helps.

[@Rheasound]

Perfect sound is “nominal” kind of “normal year” for weather info.

[@Pluralofvinylisvinyls]

Honestly I had the perfect sound on my budget turntable back in the day with a $30 amp and crappy speakers, before I knew what I was doing. I don’t even remember noticing clicks and pops back then. I just enjoyed listening to records I found and it was great. Now I see a hairline scratch in a record and I sell it.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Isn't it funny how things like that get to us now? I don't recall being as particular about sound and condition years ago. I always took care of my records but still, things happen. When I see a scratch now, however small, I obsess over it.

[@joz411no8]

Rick, that’s completely normal. I find it easy to make 1 adjustment (new tubes, new cable, new pre) at a time and give it time to register. As for speaker positioning, you’ve probably seen where listeners place tape on the floor around their footprints to mark their placement. That also provides a reference point. The best part is finding that sweet spot.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Lol - I've been doing the "tape on floor" solution as well. As a matter of fact it came in really handy today because I had to move a speaker to get behind the cabinet and had the tape not been there I wouldn't be typing this right now....I'd be driving myself crazy.

[@josephvanalstyne4049]

Great stuff as always putting on who do we think we are by purple terrific you can't always chase the perfect sound for me I like hearing music both tube oriented and solid state different sound signatures of the same music if you listen to music from 68 to 75 roughly that's tubes Listen to More modern stuff digital recordings obviously that solid state great video

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks Joseph (as always!)

[@fredmccarroll3476]

Right now I'm not able to listen to my vinyl records or CDs. I can't even watch TV because my Yamaha 7.2 RX-V665 AV receiver up and died on me. So now I'm waiting for the Best Buy Geek Squad to deliver and install a Denon AVR-S970H, but that want be for two more weeks.1/11/2024. I've been without music, watching TV, and watch movies on Blu-ray and DVD since 12/12/2023. It has been stressful.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Oh no! I'm sorry to hear that Fred. And I get it. I'd be stressed as well.

[@VinylRescue]

Oh, I know the feeling! Ever since I got back into vinyl and bought a new turntable back in 2012 I've never stopped tweaking, modding, and updating. What a vicious cycle! 😐😐🤔🤔 That turntable is pretty much been junked, and I have a newer and better turntable and three vintage turntables that I've refurbished. I still haven't stopped, but I try and enjoy my vinyl when I get a chance. 🎸🎸😁😁

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Turntables are a an addicting part of the journey aren't they? I've owned four in the last 5 years. The Thorens will porbably remain my main one but I still look at others constantly.

[@TheVinylLoungeMtl]

Well done and best of luck lol😅🎶✌🏼

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Cheers!

[@adsph]

Well said

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks!

[@adamlemons7909]

As someone who owned a business designing, constructing and installing high end car audio systems for sound quality competitions, I can tell you that there does come a point of diminishing returns. I watched guys spend tens of thousands of dollars to have award-winning sound systems only to do it all again 6 or 8 months later because they wanted better. The problem was that though there were other options in speakers and amplifiers and crossovers and head units and signal processors and cables/wiring… They weren’t ever going to get any better, just different. I could understand this obsession with guys setting up SPL systems. Though ridiculous, you definitely could get “louder“ and once you acclimated to your new system you were always going to want to be louder but the sound quality guys never made much sense to me. I could see if they had had their system for two or three years and newer/better equipment had come available but literally another 20 thousand dollors six months later changing out a system that was still winning awards and everyone was trying to replicate??? I have no grandiose ideas that either the system in my living room or in my listening room/bedroom are of the highest caliber or quality. I have run sound at some venues that make both of my systems sound like cell phones, lol, but they sound damn good throughout the sound spectrum, they produce huge soundstages considerably larger than the rooms that they are in And can produce crystal clear audio at sound levels that are simply unreasonable to listen to at any length. Will I change anything, most likely not though I have a 12 band EQ that may or may not find its way into the living room system in the near future :-) I got a text from my local record store that said that what I ordered will be coming in today so I will be picking it up tomorrow. When I get it in the mail to you I will let you know here that it’s on its way and how it was shipped. Sorry if that is inconvenient, but being blind it’s the easiest way since I can simply click a button to get back here :-) Blessings

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks Adam - My curiosity is peaked! I am constantly telling myself that. I replied to another comment about my experience with PF's 2018 remix of _Animals_ (Xmas gift from my wife), and the soundstage was incredible. There were sounds in the room that seemed to leave the room. I need to remember that the next time I encounter a sub-par recording and begin wondering if it's the system. I know what it's capable of and it's time to enjoy that. How is your leg doing?

[@adamlemons7909]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords thanks for asking. My leg is good, or at least getting better every day. I am moving around without any assistance from a walker or a cane and the pain is only at the extremes and minimal at worst. Your package is on its way! Sent USPS tracking 9534614840313364293761 delivery expected on Wednesday. Side A is good but sides B and C are where the magic is and in my opinion song 2 on side B is the crown. Side D is fair but disappointing. Not sure what they did differently but it seems flat and not as polished to me??? I hope you enjoy it, Happy New Year!

[@bikdav]

What I fail to realize is that I’m at the mercy of what the recording engineer did regardless of what equipment I have.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's so true, David. Just last night I listened to a couple records and the first had a beautiful soundstage. The next record sounded very limited and small. The old me (from not that long ago!) would have immediately wondered if I needed to tweak something. I'm learning to relax.

[@bikdav]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I’ve had several incidents like this with my system which an AV receiver is the center of my system. Yes, audiophiles. I said it and I’m doing it. So there.

[@SnapperX3]

Prior to upgrading, I had a hand me down Yamaha AVR, Polk T15s, a $100 Sony Sub, and an Onkyo TT that survived a lightning strike. I was happy and listened to a lot of records. Since I've started upgrading, I find myself futzing with the set up more than listening. When I do listen, it is with more of a critical ear. I'm searching for faults rather than getting emotionally invested in the music. I think part of the reason for this is the cost. When you spend more, you expect more. It isn't easy to test sound. You have to purchase units without having a chance to test them in a store. Returning them is a hassle and you have to allow for break-in. Then, you might be outside the return window. At that point, you are taking a loss on the used marketplace. System synergy is a real thing. Finding it is a lengthy process. A review of a speaker is fine, but what sort of other equipment do you need to make that speaker shine. Anyhow, I think I've reached a plateau for now and can get back to spinning for enjoyment. I have a much better sense of the direction I'd like to head, once the budget allows it. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

LMAO. And a good Ted Talk it was 😎 That's where I'm hoping to be at in 2024. I truly do enjoy the sound of my setup and I really need to force myself to do so and to not listen with an analytical ear. Easier said than done, I know.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

There will always be one component that you'll tell yourself is the bottleneck so you'll upgrade that component, then you'll tell yourself another component is now your bottleneck and it never ends.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

So true! I find myself glancing at other phono stages even though I've consistently stated the Tavish tube phono stage is my go-to.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

_"now your bottleneck It never ends"_ ... until you realise there is no bottleneck to begin with.

[@ridirefain6606]

Guilty as charged for doing the same thing. Then struggling to gain back what I lost. Obsessing over the idea that things can be better than what you already have, for me is the primary buzz kill of this hobby. I'm reminded of a statement I found to be pretty powerful. Audiophiles (I'm taking this label back as a positive thing.) focus on listening to their music. Audio-snobs focus on listening to their gear. Another thing that I hope will be food for thought. My 20 something coworker does not own a traditional stereo. What he uses to enjoy his music is an app on his iPhone channeled through a Bose Bluetooth speaker. Is he any less an audiophile, because he did not invest in a streaming integrated/receiver and a pair of passive transducers?

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

He is most definitely not any less. And if he enjoys and appreciates his music that's really all that matters. I was the same way until I flipped the switch and started chasing the sound and not the music. It's something I need to work on. Damn switch

[@perlman7376]

Hopefully, all audiophiles come to this point and just move and take better notes. I got here because I searched for KLH 5. I don't do vinyl and am perfectly happy with CDs and streaming. I recently listened to Enrico Caruso singing "O solo Mio" recorded in 1916 on KZbin and it sounds marvelous and magical. Of course it was remastered and not available on vinyl. Technology does have its good side.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Yes, it most certainly does. My day job (up until recently) was in IT, so I'm pro-technology. Vinyl is wear my heart is however. And I'm thrilled you have a setup you are enjoying! 😎

[@robertmitchell6015]

I’m Guilty as charged

[@marcbegine]

I also finally arrived to my Nirvana (soundstage, air between instruments ...) Pro-Ject Audio Design XTension 9 EVO, Phonostage DS3B (fully Balanced In/Outputs), Ortofon MC Quintet BlackS, RS2 Phono Power Stage. Now finally only MUSIC counts!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Awesome and great to hear Mark (no pun intended). What were you using before the Quintet Black? I am considering MC carts to jump to sometime in 2024?

[@sidesup8286]

Audio Nirvana doesn't necessarily involve perfection. You personally have achievel a level of sound quality that is so cool, that achieving perfection is not that important. I don't think audiophiles are necessarily chasing perfection, but a sound quality similar to yours or mine, that sounds just right beautiful, and hard to fault. And would seem ridiculous to even try to find faults with something so nice. Although if an A/B comparison with performers actually in the room performing versus the recording, it wouldn't be hard to hear all the limitations then, and how live music quality cannot really be achieved with reproductions. But once you attain a certain level of excellence that doesn't really matter all that much. As I'm sure people with systems like yours know, recordings are way better than most people think. There are people with $1,000 to $1,5000 systems that are complaining about mastering and the quality of recordings. The tools they are using in their evaluation, is the equivelent of a Fisher Price toy microscope with plastic lenses. That's reality to them. Like a goldfish's reality is only what is viewable from inside his glass enclosure. When these people with the equal of a Fisher Price microscope start calling audiophiles delusional for hearing qualities that their "toy" equipment doesn't have. That's when it's crazy. Let's hope this comments section won't be plagued with weird nonsense like that.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

@@sidesup8286 Fingers crossed on that!

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

This isn't going to help my reputation one bit... but then I'm retired now, so .... Over years of installing, servicing even building mostly high end audio I've dealt with quite a few audiophiles. There are two things that set them apart from the rest of us... First they are convinced beyond doubt that their systems could be better and, second, they're scared to tears that someone else may have a better system than theirs. They have their ego so invested into their systems that it is through them they derive almost their entire sense of worth.... and, they will attack like rabid dogs if you don't pay them the adulation they think is their due. Not surprisingly, this appears to often be triggered by setting up an isolated listening room. It's like this big "now you've got to get it right" flag they just can't ignore. In the living room we don't expect perfection... in the listening room we do. I've never been a fan of special rooms ... Music should be a family thing, it should be in the mains of your home where everyone can enjoy it.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I think that's it - the fact that I have a room (albeit not a large room) dedicated to music so I focus on the sound. I'll get what I think I can live with, and then I'll second guess myself and move a speaker a 1/4 inch. I'm don't have an obsessive personality either but with this it seems I do.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords After the wonderful job your spouse did (and that is a nice room, btw) one might think they were failing the relationship when the sound isn't quite perfect. I'm no shrink but that much seems kind of obvious.

[@whome8192]

I finally achieved it. Homemade phono stage and heavily modified Willsenton R8 with E34L tubes pushing Polk R-700. David Brubeck take five LP will transport you to a large room with a drummer in my house. Cymbals, Snare drum, bass drum. Audio Nirvana. Do the Polks have perfect imaging? No, but most of the ones that do have better imaging are either are too bright, or too forward in mids. I still plan on modifying my home made speakers, and making tube amp from scratch, but I know what I got raises the hair on my arm and makes me cry. All with a full auto $300 Audio Technica turntable with stock. $40 cartridge. Sounds better than 24bit streaming…but you know at some point I am going to update that cartridge and turntable….but why?

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's awesome! If you ever do tackle the tube amp let me know. I've been contemplating that myself but am very intimidated by it. As far as your modified Willsenton - did you do it yourself or follow instructions somewhere (like Skunkie's channel)?

[@Schaneification]

First thing you need PerFect ears !

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Lol - and that's where I fall short....

[@bubble-and-scrape]

The problem you have is that your dedicated listening room forces you to intensly be aware of your listening environment and its sonic conditions. Ideally this should give comfort, but your listening experience seems to suffer too much focus on perfection. I have avoided the one listening room setup by having a multi hifi setup in several rooms which can be operated individual (separate amp plus speakers per room) but also simultaniously (all amps are linked and therefor one single audio source can be played on several amps in multiple rooms). Instead of always sitting in the same room the music goes with me to whatever room i am in the house. I continue to do my daily practise and the music plays in the back as a soundtrack. Also, i have a dedicated room for my music collection but that’s not the same room where i have my record player. Creating some distance can make it easier to keep things informal and relaxed. Really sitting down and listening to music for me is almost impossible, since i’m always busy with the family or with work. So this way of organisation really gives me flexibility. And it makes me appreciate that every room and every setup has its unique sonic qualities. There simply is no best setup. Just let go of that thought and enjoy the music as is.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's a very good observation. @Douglas_Blake_579 also mentioned how a dedicated room can be part of the problem.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

Here's a bit of a challenge for all those who love to analyse things ... 1) Trust your system ... you know it's pretty darned good, just let it do it's job. 2) Criticise the recording you are listening to... Is the HiHat too loud? (a pet peeve of mine) Is the stage represented from the audience perspective? Is the lead instrument clear and present? Do the singers sound lifelike? and so on. I think you will find, over time that 90% of the problems you find will actually be mixing choices, or sometimes mixing errors burned right into each individual recording.... and your system with thank you for leaving it alone.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Excellent advice and words to live by.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Soooooo ... 😁... Instead of posting equipment reviews, post album or band reviews with a critique of the song, the mixing, the pressing and the artists ... I mean it is all about the music, right?? (EDIT: If anything is going to reignite the love of music, this should do it.)

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

@@Douglas_Blake_579 Funny you should say that. I recently created a set of cards to capture that information and plan to start cataloging my collection more precisely in 2024. Doing so will also enable me to look at exactly what you've suggested.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together?

[@MJP3055]

I have the exact same dysfunction ....

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

🤣🤣🤣

[@sidesup8286]

I don't want to add to your compulsion. I beat my compulsion by actually getting perfect sound. I find that to be the best way; although it's probably not quite really perfect. But anyway, if you had a great audio coach, he would tell you to move your speakers about 7 feet from the back wall. The depth you get by doing so has to be heard to be believed. This moving your speaker 2 to 3 feet out just doesn't do it. They recommend 3 feet or so because if they recommended the right amount, people would have trouble with their wives, and that would not help sales. Of course your room has to be big enough that doing so would not put your seat too close to the speakers. You don't want nearfield listening. Don't worry about an eqilateral triangle though. Another too often believed blooper. What you will have to do though, is add a sub or two, to compensate for the much lessened bass, from moving the speakers so far away from the bass reinforcing wall behind them. The openness you will achieve is more than the amount any upgrade of electronics is capable of giving you. So adding a sub would be far cheaper. More room on the sides of the speakers would help also.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

So true about moving the speakers into the room - my wife hated that look when I had the Klipsch speakers in that room on stands and pulled them way into the room. The Model 5s don;t need that, but I do know they would benefit from more space both behind and on the sides as you said. What it all boils down to for me is a space problem. I simply need to get over that.

[@sidesup8286]

Because of early refections that confuse the ear/brain system, most modern speakers have gone to narrow front baffles to reduce cabinet diffraction. There are other ways of doing it too, rounding the front baffle like the vintage Snell Type A speakers or some curved electrostatics. I suppose if the wall behind the speakers was rounded, it would lessen standing waves and other non desirable effects. Until fairly recently I have been limited to medium size rooms, where I couldn't move the speakers more than 3 feet out, without getting into a non desirable nearfield listening situation. But now with a nice big room, I can move the speakers way out, and the air and spaciousness probably surpasses 6 figure systems in limited size rooms. I think every audiophile, at least once in their life, should rent a place with a big room to hear what spatiality is possible, and also the deepest bass. Getting speakers away from walls also reduces a chalky sounding coloration from the plaster, which is great to be free from. Also with a big room you hear lower bass that you never even realized was on the recordings. The deeper the bass, the longer the wavelengths. Real deep bass can have wavelengths around 50 feet long. In a smaller room, it hits the wall behind the listening seat and bounces back with enough force to cause standing waves and bass cancellation. You can achieve pretty good sound in smaller rooms, but sound that's a whole new experience in a bigger space. I think most people would prefer a well chosen $5,000 system in a big room to a $25,000 system in a much smaller room.

[@stanleycostello9610]

I listen to classical music, mostly. The various labels have different microphone placement, and different mastering. Columbia (30th Street Studio), RCA (Living Stereo), Mercury (Living Presence), Decca (the "Decca Tree"), London, DG. I get crazy when I have my system set up for one label, and then I switch to a different label. One thing that I can tell you, is that RCA with most of the 1970's recordings, are pretty dreadful.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's very interesting Stanley. How do you compensate for the different labels? Is it a tone tweak?

[@stanleycostello9610]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I've got a Bellari EQ with only four knobs. That's how I adjust to get the most out of the classical recordings. Have a good weekend.

[@brucevair-turnbull8082]

As Dan, the Jazz Shepherd says you're 'listening to the system; NOT the music.' Upgrades are a headache that I can (largely) do without...

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

So true. Someone else joked about that the other day. It really is a problem of listening to the system and not the music.

[@neilfisher7999]

It's a disease. It's called Audiophilia. I blame Steve Guttenberg. Lol! But seriously, I think it's part of the hobby to fiddle with things. I don't think it's any different than other hobbies in that respect. If you play golf, you are constantly getting new clubs and tweaking things. If you fish, you have to buy new lures, rods and reels, etc. If you are into cars you do mods on your vehicle to make it quicker, louder, handle better. I think the key is to find a type of sound you like and then try to spend most of your time listening and buying music to listen to. Perfect sound doesn't exist, but typically there is a sweet spot where things sound good. The other thing that helps me is swiching to my headphones and listening through my new headphone setup. The two systems spund different and it gives me a break from the same thing all the time. I find that some albums actually sound best over headphones, sincec the sound feels like it's inside your head. I like Pink Floyd best over my headphones. Try a glass of wine or bourbon while listening and it will mellow you out a little and you'll be less critical of your system. 😂

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I usually have a glass of scotch or a bourbon old fashioned next to me 😎 I don't have headphones for music (only for podcasting and audio work). What are you using? Any recommendations?

[@neilfisher7999]

​@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Here goes. Just don't blame me if I send you down a new rabbit hole. 😂 My headphones are Beyerdynamic DT 990's. I just got a Schiit Fulla headphone amp and a Wiim Mini Streamer for the source. Previously I was using an Ifi Hipdac portable amp. I like having a separate setup so I can easily move it from room to room, listen in bed etc. I sit far enough from my regular system that I would have to have an extension cable to plug my headphones into my tube amp, so I never use it for headphones. Plus I have a cat that likes to play with cords moving around and she will actually chew through them. 🤦‍♂️I really like having a separate headphone setup for the flexibility and my wife sometimes gets tired of me playing music late into the evening, so this Way I still get to listen till late in the evening and it doesn't bother her. She can watch tv or whatever she wants. I'm certainly not an expert on headphones but these seem to be pretty good for most any type of music and the Schiit amp is way better sounding than the portable Ifi amp. But with the Ifi I can easily take it on the go and it's rechargeable so it doesn't need to be plugged into the wall. Hope this helps!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

@@neilfisher7999 Thanks Neil. I feel 2024 may be full of these rabbit holes.

[@neilfisher7999]

​@@TheJoyofVinylRecords As Elmer Fudd says, I hope you catch that wasscally wabbitt 😂

[@abengyu112751]

I always said Record..

[@davepounds8924]

The perfect sound??? Good luck!! Your going down a rabbit hole that will never end Thousands and thousands of dollars and probably never be satisfied The audiophile game is a rich man’s game and that’s too bad There is no such thing as THE PERFECT SOUND!!!!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

And I totally agree with you, Dave,.

[@calvinnapier9977]

I have to laugh, describing yourself and your wife sounds like my wife and I. She truly thinks I'm crazy sometimes. My gear is pretty good, not as good as yours, but I had to pull back for sanity sakes. One problem I have, is my center imaging is not as good as I would like. It seems as though with each recording it's a little different...go figure. I do believe that bad recordings can make us start chasing our tails, it's something we're never gonna catch.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

_" It seems as though with each recording it's a little different...go figure."_ This one is easy ... every recording's soundstage is different and that's because the positioning and depth of the instruments is decided by the recording, not your setup. In a home stereo system there is no circuit or part anywhere that determines what instrument is where and how loud it should be. That is all burned into the recording itself by the mixing and mastering engineers long before you got it. This means, quite simply, that nothing you do to your setup is going to improve on it.

[@calvinnapier9977]

@@Douglas_Blake_579 I agree with you but sadly it took me a while to figure this out. I used blame bad recordings on my equipment.

[@Douglas_Blake_579]

@@calvinnapier9977 A lot of people do. It's kind of like a target of opportunity, just sitting there waiting. But once you understand that your home setup has absolutely no clue what it's reproducing, things get a lot easier.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I also notice subtle differences depending on the recording. I have to learn to realize it's the recording and not a shortcoming of my system. A good example is the 2018 remix of PF's _Animals_ . Amazing remix that puts you in the middle of the music. I followed that up with an album with a poor soundstage. In the past I would have obsessed over the fact the follow-up album didn't have the same stage.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Well put, Douglas.

[@SuperWarren83]

Its simple, there is no such thing as ''THE PERFECT SOUND'''..

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

😂😂😂

[@kostas9826]

I would advise you to focus on your wife instead of trying to find the perfect sound. People like your wife who understand and support expensive hobbies like these are a minority and also hard to find nowadays. 😆

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I am a very fortunate man. She's my sanity.