STOP Taking Notes, it's a waste of time

[@justindirose]

To me, it's not about taking notes -- it's about solidifying the connections in my own head. The process of taking notes helps. That being said, the collector's fallacy is a real thing. What's most important is taking notes that have meaning to you, not just to regurgitate ideas.

[@bucketofbarnacles]

I agree. Taking a note is a way for me to internalize one or more concepts or learnings. I don’t have to go back to the note but the writing process is part of learning for me.

[@adss70]

Good video, and I liked your reply Justin. I feel that often it also relates to what we are taking notes for. 1) My daughter is studying for a test and her note taking is 100% to help her retain the information short term.. and ideally be linked to other learnings going forward. 2) Whilst I take notes from all the publications I read to write University papers for my studies as it helps me scan back to find the references that were ideal to support my opinions, and also refer back to notes that I used for one already published paper to be used for a newer paper with a related topic. 3) From a work perspective, as an IT consultant, I regularly go back to look for past research/work that I’ve done to see if it could help the new client - where starting with my reference notes is easier (for me) then to start with Google. 4) I sometime feel that as laborious note taking is and most likely pointless in terms of their future use, it can also be fulfilling in terms of feeling positive about work/studies/etc as it feels something was achieved… possibly the reason Obsidian graph is such a clever solution to keep us motivated. Therefore, even if no future value is gained from the writing of many notes, they can contributes to our happiness. Coming back to the video, I think that the slightly one sided argument, that was supported by sound logic, was brilliant in getting us to pause for a second and consider why we take notes. For this reason I rate it a 10/10.

[@thegiantratthatmakesalloft9415]

beautiful explanation!

[@CristianVasquez]

I would not reduce the activity of writing as merely economical. A nice quote from Richard Feynman, the physicist: > Notes aren’t a record of my thinking process. They are my thinking process. -

[@curtisgmchale]

I’m currently reading Writing to Learn which is about this excatly

[@thomasbuss_cc]

Yup, so true. I found myself avoiding to read/watch something because the act of taking notes was too cumbersome. Rather, I now try to attach new knowledge to existing notes. But as you said, you need a foundational amount of notes and start to "refactor" it (to use a technical term)

[@rb.x]

I find that I don’t take enough notes, personally. But then I rarely read my notes either.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Agree. Better to write a one-line summary of the books you read. What did you get out of it? I think also that the cult of backlinking everything is also a waste of time. Been outlining my life with tons of backlinks in Obsidian and Roam. I end up with the conclusion of setting up my systems more hierarchical with the option to search for information if needed. 😃

[@thegiantratthatmakesalloft9415]

hierarchical in folder structure, or in categories?

[@ShakeAndBakeGuy]

Just reviewed a couple notes on the challenges of ontology development which echoed exactly this point. Even with plugins like Graph Analysis, in my experience, working through the friction of thoroughly taking stock of existing notes really improves the value of the vault as well as notes.

[@guthrien]

This is such a great point, rarely said. As someone who's admittedly pretty sucked into watching a lot of videos on note-taking and the associated apps, I can't help but notice at times the notes people seem to be taking are incredibly pedestrian. It's like they're throwing junk food in their 'second brains' to pad them out. I don't mean that to sound elitist, I know for a fact most of these people are smart enough to easily recount the gems of insight recovered from the latest marketing book. But far be it from me to decide what's useful to others; I still agree with taking your message onboard.

[@curtisgmchale]

Thanks

[@Spiritheory_Cody]

I agree what's the point in taking a bunch of notes we'll never reference again. It's better to focus in on consolidating only the key points that we want to be reminded of. Lets not forget that we do actually still have our first brain.

[@ericataylortv]

Love this idea of searching before creating a new note. My vault is new/small enough that I will still probably need to create notes on most topics, but I'll try to get into the habit of asking myself if this *really* needs a new note. Thanks!

[@curtisgmchale]

You’re welcome

[@gondala]

basically, taking notes for all of thing and then after sometime you select those notes which is more important thing, this process is similarly as "no need to take notes for everything" but only take notes for important thing in the first place.

[@JoshMedeski]

I like the idea of switching new file to the quick switcher, thanks for the tip!

[@curtisgmchale]

You’re welcome

[@timbushell8640]

... and yes, value comes from finding the growing links... this week so far scored two notes. Both had links and both stretched back to 2020... and yes, search it first. Hadn't thought to change the shortcut, as search is my default start, new only applies to tasks, as searching old tasks - is a true waste of time.

[@brandonbrown9938]

Thank you! I have only ever taken notes for a purpose or to make a quick fleeting note to remember something. For example, if I am doing an in-depth book review or long form writing I may take more extensive notes. But I have never been one to take copious notes even when the subject interests me. If I feel the book or other medium needs a more in-depth look, I'll go back to it and reconsider.

[@giovannifm]

Good video, I do think that there is no one size fits all, and the act of taking notes depends on many variables, such as if I'm a researcher perhaps keeping those notes and making connections might be more important than other areas, or perhaps someone writing a book. Those are just examples, there's many more and it also depends on a person's hobbies, interests, age, academics, etc, etc. To some people taking notes and making connections with methods such as the Zettelkasten or others makes sense. I get what you're saying and your method is true for you and others that find notes silly but to others it's great and productive. I do agree that some individuals perhaps go overboard, and might over do it. Thanks for the video, love your content brother.

[@ruygranja]

Curtis, you are absolutely right! Thank you for being intellectually honest.

[@curtisgmchale]

You're welcome.

[@StylistecS]

When I took notes, I forgot everything I learned. Reading the notes didn’t help me retain the information either. To busy writing and not listening. I re-listened to the lecture again and used flash cards pre made and I understood immediately. I could actually see what works, why and how. Mad I wasted my time taking notes.

[@curtisgmchale]

This is not suprising. When you merely take notes, you're not learning as much as when you work your notes. That's what you did with flashcards. You worked the knowledge, and then revisited it on the cards. Far too many people focus on the capture part and not on working the knowledge.

[@flyingfd]

I'm taking notes on this video.

[@curtisgmchale]

Haha

[@expeditioner9322]

As Andy Matuschak said you need to have a serious context of use. Many of us don't, we just take notes because it makes us feel productive and smart. All such note taking is useless.

[@bjornunderabadsign]

"The cult of notetaking is failing us." You are the cult of notetaking, my guy.

[@psypher19111911]

A lot of people takes notes to memorize and to make references to it in their head. Some people take notes to clarify, develop, visualize, etc., so it definately have a function to some people other than being a huge cluttered database.

[@AndresIbanezVasquez]

Ill share an experiment I tried a couple years ago which helped me get more selective with the notes I take. I used Trello for projects but also for taking "short notes" extracted from bigger notes inside each board/project. I enabled the "pirate look for cards getting old" power up which changes the appearance of cards (or in this case notes) which are inactive. That way when browsing through my projects I can see the notes which have not been used lately, and archive those so they do not clutter up the space of the useful ones. You could also do something similar in PARA by taking those notes to the Archive section, but since Trello is not optimized for taking notes, it really forces you to be minimalistic with the amount of notes you take, besides Trello is project oriented, and if you are not taking notes to take action today or later in the future, whats the point? Unless its for a hobby like reading Shakespear for instance. In which case I would still advice you take some action on it, like write a blog or something (for creative expression, which is one of the many "healthy" ways of releasing dopamin and feeling good about ourselves).

[@howardtran598]

Right on point, accumulating notes is just overwhelming. Usually, i capture all the notes into a kanban board (Cause i need to move fast). Later on, i start writing and emerging notes into groups. I would say the act of writing is thinking and the act of grouping help solidifying knowledge.

[@curtisgmchale]

This is why I focus on what someone is producing/doing with their notes. Once they have some regular routine to do something, they spend more time actually rewriting their notes and thinking about them.

[@rogerdestre9980]

Maybe note taking isn't the issue, it's choosing what you bother to read more carefully. Decide what is entertainment and what is actual knowledge that will be of benifit in your life.

[@CesarDiaz1971]

Every time I watch a video about taking notes when reading a book makes me wonder how are people actually getting through books if they are taking so many notes.

[@curtisgmchale]

They are probably taking way too many notes on books that don’t matter.

[@ArvindDusra]

Notes, is and should be purely for academia, formulas. I could not believe people were making notes from books, especially self books and stuff.

[@andreluizribeiro2146]

I agree to some extent. Before I'd come with Obsidian taking notes was a waste of time.

[@oedipamaas8660]

I've never been an avid note taker. I have been so confused by the overwhelming number of videos where there is such strong emphasis on capturing information. But I honestly find most sources are so diluted of quality that it is truly a waste of time. I love Obsidian. I have been using it primarily as a data base to collect and filter my recipes. I always found it difficult to maintain a hierarchal folder system. The majority of my writing in Obsidian is journaling or formulating my own ideas. A combination of back links and tags works for me. But i understand everyone is different.

[@curtisgmchale]

You should always do what works for you.

[@hansimeier6587]

What is actually a note? A highlight? Something I scribble on paper that I can make sense of .sth.? A Freewriting? An observation? A draft or a pre-draft? Thinking on paper? An annotation? A comment? A summary?

[@curtisgmchale]

All of the above

[@thegiantratthatmakesalloft9415]

Q: Why take fewer notes? E: - Quality, not quantity. Tying many notes get harder the more there are when they can be written in a single note.. - Notes coming up with a similar notion, from different sources, are basically rehashed with little tweaks. - Cult of notetaking: writing for the vanity, not to expand thoughts - We often ignore our summaries, only rereading the very insightful ones - Time-wasting and feels like a chore - notes/summaries feels unproductive at times C: - It's about connections in our mind. If our thinking evolves after consumption, write on it. - Not everything deserves to have their own notes. - Most of what you come across are only worth to be savored. Few literatures are worth making notes of to summarize.

[@cammy944]

I like Jordan Petersons method of taking notes after you read... That way you only take notes of what you actually need without going back to the book... Plus it helps you to remember more of the book in general.

[@CoachAdamRuns]

Hard disagree with this one. I use note taking, usually long hand to process the ideas in my mind, even if I don't review them again.

[@sookythehousecat]

Well! If this sort of apostasy continues, before you know it, people will stop filling their Obsidian vaults with notes about How to Take Smart Notes. Nah, that will never happen.

[@curtisgmchale]

Haha

[@tffsnyder]

I feel like Luther might have just nailed something against a cathedral door. Religious wars coming soon.

[@fotogeniacostruttiva]

If most of the books you read are not worth a second reading the main problem could be that you are reading only worthless books. Since you think Adler's book is one worth rereading maybe you should check the list of books he suggests at the end of his work. If you only read self help books or books related to productivity or other similar topic I have no doubt that after a while you won't find anything useful. They all say pretty much the same thing since their focus is what actually works, and it's usually easier write about a common model than came up with something new and groundbreaking.

[@curtisgmchale]

In the book he says that the vast majority of what you read will not be worth a deep reading or a second reading. That you’ll be lucky to get a few books a year that are worth deep reading or syntopical reading. I read about everything from the history of redlining, to productivity, to the affects of social media on society, to the economic prospects of teens today. Most books just aren’t worth more than a cursory reading no matter what you read.

[@fotogeniacostruttiva]

@@curtisgmchale I get his point, now more than ever if we think that books today are one of the least used source of information and of course most of the information today are empty or superficial. I was thinking more about the act of reading itself which is something that takes time. The main point I guess would be the ability to choose what to read. When he talks about explorative reading I think of it more like a search for major points before the actual reading. Also the concept of value is very contest specific, it's easy to see how everyone can make something interesting from the mundane. Anyway I understand your point, I've recently reopened obsidian to take notes and I've noticed how most of the people talking about it seems to take notes only about taking notes. I mean everyone has the same 4 books over and over to make examples, it's actually a cult like you say.

[@homeofcreation]

Totally disagree. I use my notes all the time as a reference. And if it weren't for my notes I wouldn't have two masters degrees. So do whatever you want, I'll keep making notes. I never make unnecessary notes though, like stuff that is easy to remember.

[@nikhilrathod1096]

Yes. For academic research, note taking is important as we need to link papers and concepts. We go back to the literature notes before we write. So its definitely not a waste of time, just have to keep the length of notes to minimum

[@itsmechaosguy]

He is not talking about academic notes.

[@somerandomfellow8321]

For academic things like that taking notes makes a lot of sense. It’s like studying for exams, taking notes is good for that because it lets you summarise the material quickly. This guy is more talking about notes from books, like self help books, articles, videos etc. We take so many redundant notes and can end up in a cycle of taking notes on literally everything that appears. Your notes are like a cheat sheet guidance system. Don’t ever give that up.

[@GilMichelini]

Curtis, it seems you are trying to make the point in the first 2/3 of this video that making notes on EVERYTHING that we read is not necessary, and I agree with that point. Your title is misleading and clickbaity because taking and making notes is not a waste of time as you make clear in your key point in the video that starts at 4:31. A good reminder to all students is to make BETTER notes.

[@curtisgmchale]

But if I put a more measured title in less than 1/4 of the people would see the video. I dislike the way titles work in KZbin but it’s the game I must play to have my content seen. Have an excellent day.

[@DeveshUba]

Very keen to learn more about the books you revisit and why :) I guess one of them is 'Personal Kanban' right? Thanks for this video, I can totally relate.

[@curtisgmchale]

At this point I’d just say I “feel” there is more to get. I’ll think about it more.

[@brendancainfilmmaker5641]

Let me make a note not to make a note. 😅

[@productivity6693]

Watch Scott P. Scheper has a great explanation on the original Zettelkasten, and why that one actually does work. I highly recommend watching him. He deserves a lot more attention (:

[@curtisgmchale]

I’ve seen his stuff lots and link to it regularly in my PKM newsletter.

[@cjwatson1685]

Clickbait. While i agree with 99% of what you're saying, your title “Stop taking notes, its a waste of time” is not the message of your video, which really is just - Take less notes. Thats a huge difference… However i do like your idea of opening a note first before taking a note right away. The title should be like - “Hack for note taking Efficiency” or “#1 missing rule for note taking”. Its honest and in line with your message. Good luck with you channel 🙏

[@timbushell8640]

The poor kid with the book pile. : ))))

[@Qudaci]

Not making comprehansive notes of every single thing that we read or watch is not the same thing as not taking any notes ;/ Expanding existing notes is NOT 'not making notes'. This video is 95% bad advice misguided by the authors inability to perceive anything but extremes, followed by a single 10s misframed good advice.

[@tffsnyder]

A great think peace. I won’t list my bona fides here but I am 30 years into systems of PKM. It is not cynical to at least wonder if things are A bit out of balance. It is however cynical of me to propose that a huge number victims RESTLESS LINKING SYNDROME describe themselves or fancy themselves as “content providers” who rather than working on specific projects are working on a Magic Way To become renaissance prognosticators. I apologize for that last sentence in advance. I do think you are onto something which needs some fresh vocabulary at the very least.

[@curtisgmchale]

I entirely struggle with how much I just show how to use a tool vs how much I produce with my notes in other realms. I also know from a “business” perspective my how to content does far better than the stuff I’ve done as a result of reading/research. I’m trying to walk the link of providing content to help people, and do something on my own with it all.

[@curtisgmchale]

Here is a great note from Andy that talks about exactly the same thing…people talking about how to take notes that do little more than take notes about taking notes.: notes.andymatuschak.org/z6GNVv6RyFDewy11ZgXzce8agWxSLwJ6Ub5Rw?stackedNotes=zUMFE66dxeweppDvgbNAb5hukXzXQu8ErVNv

[@tffsnyder]

@@curtisgmchale thanks for that.

[@Hackanhacker]

Artem Kirzanov Have exactly a good setup for exacly what you bring at the end About checking note AFTER create a new one in Obsidian He play with tamplate and tags and links to visialised with notetree of the last software tk see witch topic come frequently and because of that he know when to create a new note ref: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2fchHptrb6aoLs