ALWAYS WITH YOU, SIS | Arcane 2x9 FINALE Reaction

[@StopMeOh]

Thanks everyone for joining me for this ride and being so nice, really appreciate you being here - stick around for more Arcane and LoL content still to come!

[@mkraulis]

Personally, I think Caitlyn got her Grayson moment at the end, when she realized that protecting people was her trophy. Thanks for your analyses and reactions.

[@Clone_47]

jihn

[@michaelcarlson1208]

That's really well said.

[@victorjacobs4868]

Jinx lived she escaped in the air vents that is what Cait was looking at in the end of the episode and she holding a piece of the bomb and that was her on the blimp at the end. She walked away like Silco told her too in ep 8.

[@StopMeOh]

@@victorjacobs4868 Absolutely!

[@captironsight]

"Airship actually. An airship has a rigid metal hull. It's not a blimp." -Caitlyn S1 Ep4

[@Iamthecrazyone]

@@StopMeOh On top of that, if you slow that scene down you can see just as the explosion is going off there's a pink streak of light that shoots off to the top right, just like when Jinx uses her shimmer speed.

[@adriankuban2904]

​@@StopMeOhWith my knowledge of Runeterra lore. I'm just overwhelmed by a big mental blow. Episode 9 was cut down from 1 hour. Ps Violet and Caitlyn scene in cell was originally longer. 😅 Ps lore master Necrit has on his channel talk with Arcane IP writer after Arcane dernier in L.A. it is interesting. And we know they are working on another series three new are allready in development Ionia, Noxus, Demacia maybe even movies.

[@adriankuban2904]

​@@StopMeOhIt was great that they showed us hints of Leblack, Swain, Oriana, the potential that Mel could become a new champion, parallel worlds and Silco in every scene he appeared he stole the spotlight. And the way Riot Games ended the stories by killing 6 champions is just wow. The new champion Ambesa Metard got extra love from Riot Games and the official IP team. Cinematic Blood sweat and tears, a story on the League website and after Arcane came out the Novel book Arcane Ambesa Chosen of the Wolf. And its ending is great. Heimerdinger finally got a good story, not just some character description on the League website, a preview in the Jinx comic and the lore game Hextech Mayhem. And even though he is a Yordle, so he should return/reborn in Bandle City = Spirit Realm but I don't think that will happen. Jace and Viktor are a big question, because I can't say for sure if they died or if they are ending the "timeloop" paradox of parallel universes (#blue stone with always a different Rune). Warwick is still questionable, because he could possibly return in his more werewolf form from the Cinematics and games. And Jinx = Powder her sacrificial death hit me the deepest in the heart. Her beginning with the Get Jinx Cinematic and her ending in Arcana created by the same French studio Fortiche, it's the greatest love story for art.

[@gustavgustav2670]

Best possible outcome indeed. What a great relationship between them, and one that didnt fall prey to either nasty tropes (e.g. bury your gays) or leaving it open to interpretation or ambiguity. Simply amazing, really.

[@raverdeath100]

i only discovered this earlier but the music score playing at the end, after Caitlyn asks Vi whether she's "still in the fight", is the same piece that played when Jinx pinned Silco to the chair because he lied to her about Vi (season 1). we all know how much music plays a part of the narrative in this show - imo this implies that Caitlyn is doing the same thing as Silco did - lying to the sister to protect her from the truth that the other one lives. i just want to say thanks for allowing us to join you watching this show. subbed.

[@StopMeOh]

@@raverdeath100 thanks so much, really appreciate it

[@broadwaybroad]

I don’t think it’s lying, but not giving false hope. Rn, it’s just a theory. If she knew Jinx was alive, it’d be lying.

[@mirelaanghel6155]

I don't think she's certain. She's investigating and doesn't want to give Vi false hope. She'll put two and two together though

[@raverdeath100]

i agree - i opted for brevity but it is interesting that the music played. it's the crescendo of a track called "everyone else betrays us". along with the other hints... it's the kind of thing Riot and Fortiche do.

[@tanianeira9532]

both, cait and jinx lied, both want vi to stop stressing and just be happy i think

[@LuxAbortera]

I watched so so many youtubers and streamers reacting to all league of legends content and Arcane included, and I have to say you are by far my favorite. Thank you so much. This was like a journey for me. I followed all your league of legends videos through years and I'm really pleased to be here and joining to you in this journey. For sure there will be more after arcane. Creators already told that there will be so we have to wait. Again Thank you so much.

[@StopMeOh]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it, extremely nice of you to say

[@KriZisGanra]

Thank you so much for all your reactions and video essays. It's really nice to know you're not the only one who likes this show so much😅 Also I've learned a lot of subtle details I've missed thanks to your videos. That was such a wild ride, thank you for being a part of it❤

[@StopMeOh]

Thanks a lot! 💜

[@PricefieldPunk]

Caitlyn was left with such a dilemma at the end. She knows theres a real possibility Jinx survived but Vi is grieving and almost at peace with everything. She finally feels safe and at home with Cait but if Cait tells Vi its only gonna make Vi search for Jinx again. Ekko also is heartbroken thinking Jinx died and Caitlyn could tell him but then she'd need to tell Vi too.

[@Kiroy919]

True, I think it's also up to Jinx to open up those relationships again when she's ready to. She's already broken her cycle of being unhealthily dependent on others.

[@harryballsak1123]

I think Ekko knows Jinx is alive. He only burns on price of paper. After what he went though with Hiemmerdinger, no paper for him?

[@michaelcarlson1208]

Actually, the lead showrunner Christian did a 2 your interview. He confirmed that Ekko told Jinx about the alternative universe and Secondly, that she was going to leave Piltover without telling Vi if she got the chance. I'd like to think Ekko knows she lived and left.

[@ladycamui]

Vi's scream at the end reflecting all her pain accumulated since ep3x01 is so damn heartbreaking. I'm glad this time she had a safe place to grief. Also Ambessa receiving the best death possible, finally proud of her daughter. A masterpiece

[@greenlantern7959]

26:50 never has a show so consistently made me feel like this, let alone in nearly every episode. Loved all your analysis throughout S1/S2, and thanks for a genuine reaction here. No matter how many times she gets kicked, we still want to see Jinx find her way out of the despair. Ekko loved her long before. Isha showed Jinx she could still love and be loved, even though she’s …different.

[@michaelcarlson1208]

Thank you for your video analysis and sharing your reactions, it's been a true enjoyment! I look forward to your channel and whatever comes in the future. Keep up the good work!

[@StopMeOh]

@@michaelcarlson1208 thanks Michael, really appreciate your thoughts, will read the other comments too

[@comicclash1]

so good. Jinx of all people giving isha 3 to 6 months of pure happiness, Protecting isha from vander/warwick, and in the end protecting her sister from warwick. She didnt run from the monsters, she stayed and protected. cait understanding she needs to protect the people she loves in the end.

[@leevimasalin2301]

The best description of Arcane for me is easily this. "Did i just finish Arcane or did Arcane just finish me?". To all who thinks the ending is messy i partly agree, but remember what Jayce told us, "there is beauty in imperfections".

[@michaelcarlson1208]

That's pretty well said. 👏 I don't like the ending choice they made for the sisters, but its beautiful in it's own way.

[@user-sz5yd2in7t]

someone said ekko was playing life is strange about that jinx scene and it really made me laugh lol

[@michaelcarlson1208]

🤣

[@jackakimbo5718]

Wholesome? Check. Young love? Check. Supernatural elements? Check. Cute but will crush your soul? Check.

[@VioletArcane6]

They also said that this season 2 of arcane s going to be on blue-ray with longer scenes with no short cuts soon.

[@doubleaa6306]

Can you tell me where you heard this, or a link of possible

[@VioletArcane6]

​@@doubleaa6306 they said on Netflix they had to cut the scenes short because of ratings so that means the original longer version of arcane season 2 will be blue-ray anytime soon just like they did on season 1

[@VioletArcane6]

@@doubleaa6306 They have Arcane Season 1 on blue-ray so they are going to do the same thing on season 2 just not now tho

[@AretaicGames]

That wasn't Vander any longer. Viktor had sacrificed Vander's humanity, purged the last of who he was, in ep. 8. That Vi couldn't let go of Vander, even at the end, was a reflection of what alter-Powder told Ekko in ep. 7, that it was Vi's fear of losing those she loved that made her fight so hard. Part of Jinx's last act (that we see) was setting Vi free from her last ties to Vander, as well. Also, Cait sacrificed her eye in order to be able to strip away the wards against magic Ambessa was wearing on her arm, which left her open to Mel's final attack.

[@fraglespb]

Hahaha so funny! 😂 I had the same comment untill Cait was saved by Mell.. " hmm... eeee.. ammmm" basically speachless 😂 P.s we all have to agree at one point about Cait: she grew as hell! From child with a gun, to awesome fighter with multiple fighting skills! Her fighting scens in this episede are just amazing! My favourite character from Arcane! ❤ Cheers Ola, thank you and take care! 😊

[@WoJoFe]

Given that literally the last minute of the story is used for showing Cait checking the ducts while holding a monkey bomb piece I'd say the canonic ending is: "Have it whichever way you want, dear viewer." Also we get introduced to Powder in EP1 saying that she wants to ride an airship one day.

[@Clone_47]

jhin

[@harryballsak1123]

Pink streak heading for air ducts right before the explosion same ducts Cait is looking at. Airship has a blue stripe on it. Also THE END made in Jinx style

[@WoJoFe]

@@harryballsak1123 There is also a pink streak frame when Jinx self deletes.

[@mercilessidioms]

I think it's the same design airship. Tip of the cap to the writers for having it both ways. Schrodinger's Jinx.

[@harryballsak1123]

@@mercilessidioms If you look at the shots is exactly the same except in S1 is coming to Piltover and in the ending it's going away. AND there is a faint blue stripe on it. That's not accidental

[@didsva]

I just got to say I really love how good Caitlyn look in an eye patch. As it really suit her style and make her looks so beautiful🥰

[@texn7526]

Holly crap that was amazing!🥰🥰Thanks so much Ola!

[@anabrans2]

It could be that Vander saved her - then it is all connected to the Monkey bomb Jinx uses when they are falling: Caitlyn is looking at ventilation shafts because she doesn't know where it happened and how Jinx could escape that, neither does Vi, she averted her gaze. When Jinx and Vander are falling down, he has those metalic "tears", and they are shown when Viktor's 'magic' leaves the husk - when it dies. Singed mentioned Vander was very resilient, and since Viktor's presence is no longer there it appears only Vander inside of Warwick remains. I doubt all of his memories are fully gone. When Jinx takes out her Monkey bomb, we can see a memory of Vander tucking them in and blowing the candle - his face is right next to Powder's Monkey bomb head. Her bomb in the prison fight made him remember who she was, so this flashback could indicate that he recognised her once more when she pulled her Monkey bomb, and was the one that threw her to safety, he was holding her by the waist. Explosion happened way above those air vents. If we look at the dome they are in, her shimmer trail goes off to the oposite direction of the hole her Lair made, that side has a lot of catwalks/rails, and they all lead to the dome opening where Jinx's lair crashed...

[@sergeyyagnikov858]

Riot Games and Fortiche have proven that they know how, love and do the series with all their heart, since they evoke such genuine emotions. upd: Jinx is alive))

[@willireems3223]

You have a sad vein like me, (from min 25 to 26), on your forehead, nice to see real emotions

[@nrgspike]

Jinx sacrificing herself for her sister makes for a beautiful ending... but if you don't want that to be the end of her story, there are clues for those who look.

[@Clone_47]

jhin

[@beastmonger4821]

"Come play" is such a fitting song to Jinx arriving with Zaun cavallery... "If you wanna come play, you gotta start with me And the monsters in my head, in my head I got blood on my hands and you're my revenge And you pushed me to the edge, the edge." Also lot of people missed that it was Maddie sabotage the bomb with the nail... Caitlyn is still absolutely hot even without teh eye... they now can roleplay pirate queen and her prisoner in the bed!!!!

[@BirSorunumuzVar]

What a masterpiece! It was such a joy to watch this show, share thoughts about it, read comments, and see your reactions 🥹. First of all, thank you for being part of this journey 🤗. There are so many theories about Jinx being alive, and honestly, I believe them! I think she realizes she's not good for Vi and decided to leave Piltover. With three more shows confirmed, who knows? We might even see her again! Now, about those fight scenes-absolute chef's kiss! Watching Caitlyn and Mel team up againts Ambessa was perfection. What a dream collaboration! I’d watch that duo take on anything. I felt the same way watching Jinx and Sevika earlier. Different vibes, but somehow the same "perfect fight couple" energy 😅 Oh, and I couldn’t help but laugh at your comments about Jayce and Viktor almost kissing. I literally thought the same 😂😂 Even though this episode gave us way too much heartbreak, with all the deaths and separations, I’m still over here grinning about Caitlyn and Vi. They made me feel happy💃. I have to add, how can an eye patch suit a woman this much? HOW? JUST ASKING 😂 Thank you for the video, I hope more videos are coming 🫣

[@Anna-c9v1o]

about the dramatic Vi scream .. I was thinking the same, the closer I got to the end and then literally stopped at the end for a moment and was like whaat 10 min left and we still didn't see it, are you kidding?? 😂

[@rockerojerez349]

Very Brutal 😱 and emotional 😭💔

[@lecwizard]

"Jinx is breaking the rule since she is the first character in game that died" Meanwhile Heimerdinger, Jayce, Viktor, Warwick and Ambessa: AM I A JOKE TO YOU??

[@viniciuslopesmodena]

By the way, in the moment Maddy pulls the trigger, during two frames of special effects she have a wicked smile in her face.

[@michaelcarlson1208]

I must say I've seen people say this and I've inspected the shot easily 20+ times in slow mo, I don't seen any smile. At most a smirk but it's very hard to see in my opinion.

[@viniciuslopesmodena]

@michaelcarlson1208 the black and white part looks like a smile to me, but if anything, even a smirk is very sadistic for the occasion, with is, a execution of a "loved" one

[@darktemplar8140]

Singed got the best ending of all.

[@adriankuban2904]

It was great that they showed us hints of Leblack, Swain, Oriana, the potential that Mel could become a new champion, parallel worlds and Silco in every scene he appeared he stole the spotlight. And the way Riot Games ended the stories by killing 6 champions is just wow. The new champion Ambesa Metard got extra love from Riot Games and the official IP team. Cinematic Blood sweat and tears, a story on the League website and after Arcane came out the Novel book Arcane Ambesa Chosen of the Wolf. And its ending is great. Heimerdinger finally got a good story, not just some character description on the League website, a preview in the Jinx comic and the lore game Hextech Mayhem. And even though he is a Yordle, so he should return/reborn in Bandle City = Spirit Realm but I don't think that will happen. Jace and Viktor are a big question, because I can't say for sure if they died or if they are ending the "timeloop" paradox of parallel universes (#blue stone with always a different Rune). Warwick is still questionable, because he could possibly return in his more werewolf form from the Cinematics and games. And Jinx = Powder her sacrificial death hit me the deepest in the heart. Her beginning with the Get Jinx Cinematic and her ending in Arcana created by the same French studio Fortiche, it's the greatest love story for art.

[@keyronkathrynekathrynkeyron]

Ekko save people of both city.. but he never save his lover

[@zdravkogeorgiev323]

A happy twist, Jinx is 90% alive ;)

[@harryballsak1123]

"she lost an eye?" yes she got stabbed in the eye by Ambessa that were the blood came form so Mel could send her mom to the black rose dimension. Also when everyone stars to get lifted in the air you can see Cait lost an eye. Jinx aint dead

[@adriankuban2904]

It's great to see Theory about Mel from Ambesa Cinematic Blood sweat and tears that she is Chosen of the Wolf is comfirned. #Gold glowing magic which even saved her and Jayce from Jinx's rocket. And Necrit on his channel too didn't understand how good this was write by a human being.

[@keyronkathrynekathrynkeyron]

6:58 Im so scared for everyone... Well in war no one expects who will leave or die... Make it brutal riot... To let know the audience WAR is look like dont pull the punch

[@wickdaline8668]

I'm the dirt under your nails.

[@cattievogelsong96]

I wish they actually did something with the maddie reveal. It is actually comical what happened. It is supposed to be serious but i was laughing so hard. With the run time given i am glad we got the seen with Caitlyn and Vi at the end. With more time it would be interesting to see both of them talk about Maddie. Hopefully i can find a good fan fiction on the topic.

[@michaelcarlson1208]

From what I perceived, Caitlyn is wondering whether she should tell Vi that she thinks Jinx didn't die and escaped through ventilation shaft. I think she's afraid if she does tell Vi her thoughts, that Vi might go chase after her sister. So she's curious of her answer to see if Violet will abandoned their relationship to find her sister or stay with Caitlyn and help heal the city, however long it takes. Personally, I'd like to think Vi knows her sister ended up living and just like Jinx said "I'm always with you, even if we're worlds apart" I'm honestly so mixed on the ending because I think as an audience we want Vi and Jinx to have somewhat of a happy ending together. But it's also symbolism for Jinx to "break the cycle of violence" and leave all the pain and hurt behind and let her sister be happy and she'll carve out a new story in a new life somewhere else. And just like the opening of season 1, Jinx is now flying away in the blimp she talked about. I'd like to imagine one day Jinx and Vi reconnect as she meets her niece and nephew that her sister has with Caitlyn, named Isha and Vander and years of healing of Piltover & Zaun and making a better city.

[@AretaicGames]

Hard to imagine that Jinx could have stayed in Piltover/Zaun, given that she'd carried out at least three terror attacks on Piltover (1:4, 1:9 and 2:3); her intervention in the final battle can't erase or counterbalance that fact.

[@adriankuban2904]

With my knowledge of Runeterra lore. I'm just overwhelmed by a big mental blow. Episode 9 was cut down from 1 hour. Ps Violet and Caitlyn scene in cell was originally longer. 😅 Ps lore master Necrit has on his channel talk with Arcane IP writer after Arcane dernier in L.A. it is interesting. And we know they are working on another series three new are allready in development Ionia, Noxus, Demacia maybe even movies.

[@juliantheapostate2263]

I think you pinned down Noxus correctly as bunch of hyper violent Theater-kids. They can't let any opportunity for theatralics pass and I respect them immensly for it. And I really empathized with your hyper concern about Caitlyn. It isn't a finale of Arcane without being afraid for poor Cait. At least this time Jinx didn't threaten Vi with having made her into a snack.

[@akoskralik3053]

At first, I wasn't sympathetic with Jinx at all. She was a straight psycho, who did some pretty messed up shit. Only starting S2 Ep4 did I start to warm up to her, when it was clear that Isha entering her life started to bring Powder back. Nothing will erase what she's done, but everything she did from that point forward: Caring for Isha like a big sis or a mom, working to save Vander, reuniting with her sister for the same goal, then sacrificing herself so that Vi could live a free and happy life with Caitlyn....she surprised me. She really did. Taught me that even the most rotten soul can find redemption. And she is also most probably alive. The clues are obvious.

[@smokelingers]

They sincerely dropped the ball with Vander/Warwick. His 'final' transformation wasn't even remotely believable, given what we had been shown about Viktor, Viktor's puppets, shimmer, and Vander's condition. Other than that, it was enjoyable. Just hits different for me because Warwick has been one of my favorite League champions since 2009.

[@yevdokiyabibikova2439]

Can someone explain what means finale dialog between Cait an Vi? Btw thank you for your video! It was so nice to rewatch series with you! :)

[@StopMeOh]

@@yevdokiyabibikova2439 I will make a video about that tomorrow :)

[@yevdokiyabibikova2439]

​@@StopMeOh Whoa! So cool, already waiting for it! ❤

[@lightningkachowski5948]

viktor and jayce arent gay for each other. its brotherly love.

[@АндрейМилошевич]

21:46 Heimer??? Where??

[@cattievogelsong96]

Beside getting more scenes out of Caitlyn and Vi my big disappointment was the complete abandonment of the political class struggle in the show. It’s all unite under a common enemy and then give one or two prominent people from Zaun a seat on a council. The political fall out could have been it’s own season. The class struggle was something that drew me in to Arcane. It helped set it apart from other shows that has politics in it. While yes arcanes does the both sides have good people and bad people trope i feel like the show handled really well. The show depicted the apathy and carelessness of the ruling class. If they don’t have to see it then i can’t be that bad. How being sheltered and insulated from the poor is cruel. It isn’t the usual cruelty of intentionally inflicting harm. The rich tell themselves they haven’t made an active choice to harm someone personally so they don’t have blood on their hands. That segregation makes the brutality of the police easier to justify. And the nuance of three factions. With Ekko and the firelights being really interesting. Early and especially middle season two handled the firelights really badly and that was The foreshadowing of the complete lack of nuance in the end. The firelights and Caitlyn’s dictatorship being handled in a really boring way. So disappointing they really could have done something and they just didn’t.

[@Clone_47]

I saw Jihn

[@benschultz1784]

So Jinx, Ambessa, Warwick, Heimer, Jayce, and Viktor are going to be MIA for reworks?

[@rega5888]

Only Victor

[@bobo-y1t3y]

Only Victor + Legendary skin But Warwick, Heimer, Jinx will got new skins

[@mlena9078]

czemu ja dopiero dziś dojrzałam te wszystkie polskie tytuły? Co jest ze mną nie tak? XD

[@StopMeOh]

@@mlena9078 xDD

[@knexxpert]

Now that you've finished Arcane would you consider reacting to RWBY? Start with the 4 colored character trailers.

[@michaelcarlson1208]

I guess my endnote would be Arcane overall is a masterpiece with a messy ending for me. I found Act 1 predictable, only because if you watched their season 1 trailer, they BARELY revealed anything after act 1(I still enjoyed Act 1 though). While I knew Warwick is Vander, they still pulled off Act 2 masterfully. Just Act 3 was a little subpar for me excluding Ekko. It is a beautiful show and while I personally haven't played league since 2019, I've kept up on the game and lore. I was more excited for season 2 than I was for Endgame...crazy to believe the series is over but I'm glad the writers went out on their own terms. It was an amazing time to be league fan with worlds this past year and new people learning about league. They've already greenlit other shows and most logical sense would be Noxus next. I've never been a big anime fan, I'm hoping to get into the genre more now, but it will be hard to find ANYTHING that tops this show for me. And from an entertainment standpoint, from video games, tv, movies; whether going on a journey with Joel and Ellie, Kratos learning to become human, Inception, and 50+ experiences, I don't think anything has emotionally affected me as much as Arcane has. The art style, the sound effects, nuanced characters, voice actors, musical score, all of it, going to miss our Jinx, Vi, 🧁, Ekko, Isha, Vander, etc. I have hope and faith, whether in my mind, that Vi and Jinx will have their happy reunion and possibly make an appearance in another League series. I would give Arcane a 8.5/10. Literally the last two, if not the last episode almost ruined the whole show for me. I personally believe Jinx and Vi deserved a happier ending together as sisters, whether it's cliche or not, I don't know. And while I give this show a lot of props for many times using "the show, don't tell." It's kind of sad they literally don't mention Isha's sacrifice at all. She was literally a plot device they used to get all of us emotional and threw to the wayside, in my personal, humble, opinion. Kind of stains her whole presences and her goodness as a character, child, happiness, something to fight for. Granted I would infer that is what Ekko is kind of sparks in Jinx during his speech, but still not direct reference is kind of sad. Also in-case people don't now, Christian(the lead showrunner confirmed in an interview) that Ekko told Jinx about the alternate universe during their conversation off screen. And that Ekko knew Jinx was going to leave without telling Vi if she got the chance. Arcane deserves a full theatrical release

[@MatzaMoney]

They have a bromance. Not a romance. They won't be kissing hahaha

[@michaelcarlson1208]

I don't have time right now to write all my thoughts, but just wanted to say first and loved the reaction! Vi finally got to see Caitlyn's 🧁 🧁 AFTER her sister and Maddie She also let her know the under city would eat her alive So Vi is a power bottom & Cait sub top? lol It's heavily implied Jinx lived and decided to "Break the Cycle" by leaving since Vi would never give up on her. 1)If you slow down time, you can see a purple shimmer pattern before the bomb explodes 2)They show Caitlyn smirk as she is inspecting the ventilation schematics and that one lead out of the tower as you saw 3)They show a blimp flying away, just like in the opening when Powder says "I'm going to ride in one of those one day" and her signature scratches on the camera before the camera cuts away.

[@ralunix4612]

Ngl... what happened to Vandee put me off so bad I lowered it from my list of fav shows. He was used just to cause suffering to the viewer and characters. Tortured then almost killed, then again, then again , then AGAIN , then finally death.... I shall keep to the in-game Warwick lore still... This hurt me to much.

[@keyronkathrynekathrynkeyron]

Yeah i think that is the best to do is brake the rule... That champion in the game have to die... Like ambessa and jinx...

[@danh8804]

I’m going to be that guy and say S2 just wasn’t as good. Probably was never going to be, and it’s not Highlander 2 or anything, but… meh