A New Kind of Christianity: Brian McLaren speaks at St Paul's Cathedral

[@jonnyb3268]

"Is our faith equipped with the same capacity for growth and learning as Science is?" Massive quote.

[@bridgeshague3865]

Just pure Satan

[@zacdredge3859]

A leading question perhaps. I fail to see what is massive about it apart from the extent to which it misses the point. You can learn a greater variety of things through science, sure, but that's not a claim that many orthodox Christians would be challenged by. In terms of 'growth', I would say the vast majority of science is irrelevant to personal growth and the one field that is(psychology) has produced understanding that is very similar to concepts already taught in the Bible(eg, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy). I actually don't think any sort of purely scientific approach to humanity can result in human thriving as the Christian faith can so if this was meant as rhetoric it lacks the force of any sort of clear logic or reason.

[@Matira269]

@@zacdredge3859 Not rhetorical, the answer is NO. Science peer reviews, tries to prove itself wrong, and corrects its errors. Religion does not tolerate challenges to its dearly held beliefs. So religious leaders could learn from science, and get down off the high horse of infallibility and inerrancy.

[@sarannec1282]

11:38 - 11:48 👉🏽"BROAD" AND "WIDE" is the way of destruction and they that enter therein.....MATT 7:13

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Yes indeed it is. This wolf posing as a shepherd is ushering as many gullible souls as he can to that destruction too. What is most alarming is that I see some great comments from sheep like ourselves, that can see through his twisting and denigrating of scripture and Christianity itself (he claims that's a negative term in another speech). Yet he is addressing supposed pastors and priests and they don't know the word of God enough to catch how he continually misuses it and plucks little phrases totally out of context?

[@mr.tomatohead5648]

Luke 3:6 And all people will see God's salvation.

[@mr.tomatohead5648]

Romans 14:11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'EVERY knee will bow before me; EVERY tongue will acknowledge God.'

[@mr.tomatohead5648]

Colossians 1:19-20 For God was pleased to have ALL his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself ALL things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

[@sarannec1282]

@@mr.tomatohead5648 And your context for posting is what??

[@oldpathsbaptistministries7904]

This is what happens when you let an English teacher who reads the Bible as literature become a pastor and teach theology. Beware of the theology of the 'Emerging Church' movement. The Apostle Paul in Galatians 1:6-9, said, 'I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel : Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.'

[@Mrpargmatic]

What exactly is so wrong with his message? Please explain.

[@oldpathsbaptistministries7904]

@@Mrpargmatic Too much to list here, but contact me through our website if you really are interested. There's an email link.

[@julieminchin1424]

wow. no wonder people have stopped going to old churches

[@cruzaderawaken9600]

The same thing happened to me. My childhood pastor was once an English teacher, and he later became a pastor. A few decades later, he started getting into Emergent Postmodern theology. He is currently a secret progressive Christian slowly trying to lead his evangelical congregation into his thinking

[@rallfrey1]

It is people like Prof Mclaren that really make Christianity a vibrant and vital religion. Yes. Thank you and thank you, St Pauls.

[@preachthetruth2013]

I find it amazing that Brian diverts from what the Scriptures says regarding various topics and utilizes popular opinion without providing any evidence to support a theological position. The continuous comparisons between Christianity and the church with various secular entities has little relevance to the discussions at hand and seem to be used to avoid meaningful interaction on key issues. I have not doubt that Brian is a talented English literature scholar; however, these qualities do not any way qualify him as a theological scholar. His entire presentation regarding the biblical "narrative" and the three stages which proceeded Christ where void of meaningful historical content and similarly quotations of Christ were taken outside of their historical context. While Brian is talented, I will seek theological guidance from theologians.

[@jeanclink8199]

preachthetruth2013 He is not speaking as a theologian, but is addressing, mainly, how we are living 'in the name of Jesus'. After all, Jesus "...said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I don't see that we (what we hear of mainstream Christianity in the media) are doing too well in that area. Recently a hugely popular evangelist recommended strongly that we blow Iran off the map. Not good.

[@patrick9501]

I could not have put it any better.Great insight!

[@markrichter2053]

That’s saying more about your perspective than his

[@MikesBibleNotes]

System of beliefs? Loving Way of Life? It is NOT one or the other, but both. Clearly Christians are to love as Jesus loved. And Christians are to know what they believe and why. So please do not set forth a false dilemma in order to cast off the historic teachings of the Christian Faith, and supplant them with a system of beliefs that are nothing more than a political ideology. McLaren is not choosing a "Loving Way of Life" over having a "System of beliefs". He is replacing the historic beliefs of the Christian Faith with his own politically correct "system of beliefs". I pray that no one falls prey to his deception.

[@dburgessnotburger]

Can u tell more? Why is this deceptio

[@jamesshears5892]

Thanks Brian for a loving, gentle and measured message. It’s clear from many of the angry and deeply unloving comments below that many ‘Christ followers’ are longing to drive you out of town and off a cliff or get together for stoning! Jesus never condemned anyone but was always filled with love,patience and acceptance especially towards those who the religious folk of his time despised. When will we ever learn? Even if you disagree with Brian, Jesus shows by an obvious example that ‘if they are not against me then they are for me’. Brian is clearly deeply in love with Jesus. Who are any of us to judge? Keep up the good work Brian of sharing the love and justice of Jesus.

[@lessingtom]

His Word? "All scripture [Genesis to Revelation] is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2 Ti 3:16)

[@dburgessnotburger]

Why so much negative feedback from "Christians" in the comments below? I think this man had made some very good points. He's a terrific writer. His book: a New kind of Christianity, is an amazing work. I actually agree with a lot of what he is saying. Lord, help me if I'm on need of it. Amen

[@fiveSolas879]

3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Jud 3-4.

[@cruzaderawaken9600]

Why are Christian denominations that follow his way of thinking die off?

[@patrick9501]

Brian McLaren, please, if you sincerely want clarity for your warped mind and confusion, then, complete Charles Clough's Bible frameworks series at bibleframework.com

[@neurodivergentdad]

Phenomenal stuff! Just wish it didn’t have the popping sound.

[@MaraBraidotti2014]

The 'Good News' is not just a group of truths, but a Person as well. It means that as the historical churches as the called emergent ones must look at the whole TRUTH and live by it. Not only epistemological questions but relational commitments, not just cognitives concerns but these that talk to heart.

[@Matira269]

After two millenia? It is what it is! The religion has genocide and racism built into its fabric and ethics that are very situational. If the chosen group does something, it is right or trivial and must be forgiven, but if the unchosen does the same thing it is wrong, and beyond forgiveness. Then there is the hubris, because they know that they are right and everyone else is wrong and hell bound. There is the dishonesty about the church's history as well, so change will not be seen as necessary by church leaders and there will be no repentance. I wish Brian well in his efforts, but I doubt that any substancial change can happen.

[@KingdomUploader]

'The moral and spiritual quality, or skill, if you will, of entering in to the perspective of - or seeing through the eyes of an opposer and holding an "intelectual empathy" for an opposer' seems a great place or even a necessary foundation to even have a shot at dialog with those who are diametrically opposed to our view. I love that idea. It reminds me of the criminal detective who lets themself, much like a method actor, enter into the mind, the passion and desires of a serial killer which enables the detective to catch the killer.

[@philiphigh7189]

This was a wonderful breath of fresh air for me

[@leigh8324]

Enjoy the fresh air because if you believe this man and his teachings you will burn in hell for eternity. Do not be deceived. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. There is no new Christianity. Know the true gospel. You are a sinner and need of a Savior. Jesus Christ is that Savior. He is God manifest in the flesh, he came to this earth as a man, he was sinless yet died for our sins. He rose again on the third day and is seated at the right hand of the Father right now. Call on Jesus, believe in him, his death, resurrection and his deity and you will be saved.

[@adoniassouza9227]

Hahahahahahahahahaha So typically fundamentalist. You´re sick!!!

[@leigh8324]

Adonias Souza did you forget your meds this morning or is that the demons in you coming out. I would think the latter! ​

[@leigh8324]

Adonias Souza I'll pray for you. You most certainly need it!

[@jamesshears5892]

I agree. How as followers of the most loving, accepting and peaceful human to ever draw breath, have so many become so filled with anger,hate and judgement? The message of our Lord is so simple - be loving, kind and caring. It amazes me how many followers of the ‘prince of peace’ have clearly never read the teachings of Jesus. What would the world have looked like today if we had simply refused to do anything other than share his message of love with our fellow humans? Why are we still so blind? Thanks Brian for your bravery in reminding us of what we really should already be doing!

[@rosemaryvaller5601]

Having listened to Brian Mclaren These words came to mind from Proverbs 14:12 THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO A MAN, BUT IT'S END IS THE WAY OF DEATH. The Bible is GODS INSPIRED not man inspired Shame on you all the leaders of St Paul cathedral to have this poor man who needs guidence and love to bring him back to his first love SHAME ON YOU ALL my prayers will be for your Spiritual Restoration in the name of JESUS CHEST OF NAZARETH

[@rosemaryvaller5601]

My apologies for my not checking my predictive text for miss spelling

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Thank you, that's a great scripture to apply to him and I've thought of many others after listening to his neo-communist, social justice drivel, which he's infesting churches w/. I'm horrified this movement is so big and that he's infecting churches w/ it. We do need to pray. The judgment on wolves like this posing as shepherds is fierce and I'm not usually one who likes to dwell on God's wrath or judgment, but when you are snatching souls from Jesus hand and abusing the scriptures by taking phrases completely out of context it's heresy. It's ok to make some mistakes or not understand doctrine, but this guy is far out in left field, the far left literally, that this is willful. The people that embrace this w/out pause or any doubt, or checking w/ the bible though: "For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires."

[@jager21465]

yet men wrote it

[@pasainchina97]

This man would be judged by some to be liberal, by others open minded. What does Jesus ask of us ? The way some so-called Christians treat each other is nothing less than disgusting, we sneer at one so called and pridefully touch the shoulder of one in our economic, denomination class. But what is Jesus asking of us ? For some they are being paid handsomely to tow the party line, and not think or experience the real God.

[@LOVE-JC777]

We will all pass away from earth and the word of God will endure forever. Will not change for any generation .

[@StephenHolland]

Click below for a detailed talk on the Emerging Church kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2i7gWOBrM-shaM

[@bmontgomery5485]

While I do understand where you're coming from and I do agree that God is unchangeable I would have to disagree that our understanding of him should remain the same. Our spiritual journey should constantly reshape our understanding of God. It reshaped Paul, Martin Luther, even Brennan Manning. The only two things that should remain constant is our trust (faith) in Him and our understanding that God is an eternal mystery that will never be fully understood.

[@shabbye9401]

So sincere, so wrong. He takes the word of God and dismisses it. His 'new kind of Christianity' isn't new, satan invented it many years ago. He is just rehashing it in his own words, to appeal to this generation. Jesus; I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.

[@marksmith351]

Wow, I’m 30 min into this and Brian has said almost NOTHING.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

He sure never gets around to saying anything biblical or of sound doctrine. Just sounds like the next communist and social justice peddler.

[@markdaniels1730]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 "The superfluities of the rich are the necessaries of the poor. They who possess superfluities, possess the goods of others." Do you know which communistic "social justice peddler" said that?

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@markdaniels1730 I could guess Hitler?

[@markdaniels1730]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 It was actually Saint Augustine.

[@Cton88]

A lot of fluff my friend and no meat. Rob Bell does a better job, but then again he’s a universalist.

[@jenniebugs1]

He is really speaking about understanding Jesus in a humanistic way. This is now,central, because the bible has been dismantled with intellectual and theological machinery and gymnastics and cobbled together again by human hands. This means that Jesus is now not defined by His Word, but by our human finite minds. If you take Jesus and separate Him in any way from His Word, placing Him on a par with our intellectuality, you have in effect demoted God the Creator, to the Creature's level. It is another insidious way of making God in our image, rather than humbly acknowledging that we are made in His image. As a Christian I too tried to dismantle my faith and be all embracing far and beyond what the Manual for Life dictates. I cobbled things together again, but it was like rebuilding a car without being a skilled mechanic, and I was left sitting behind the wheel in a vehicle which I thought was taking me to new expansions of Christianity, but in effect, the engine would not start and propel me forward. Whilst he is sincere, he is sincerely on the wrong path. It will be hard for him to backtrack, but I pray that God will show him how to be a child again, without bitterness or rancour, and just humbly say "Over to you Lord Jesus, I will put my faith and trust in You absolutely".

[@tacticalfilmfightingacadem9200]

Amen well put God is the same yesterday Today and forever

[@Joesfosterdogs]

look at the fruit born. His son is gay and married. i knew Brian before he became popular. He was an academic and these guys are always off-base because literature is their place of reason NOT the Bible. Brian is not even considered evangelical. He is a joke. A false teacher like Joel Osteen, but worse. Being reasonable, gentle, intelligent makes him all the more deceptive. He is VERy arrogant biblically speaking preying on naive...I have more respect for goons on late night TV commercials selling holy water for profit...enter Peter Pooper

[@stringbean6712]

My Dear Brother - Listen to yourself? You make such harsh judgements, such sweeping statements like you have it all worked out? Where is the love? Where is the gentleness, patience, acceptance etc. etc. - I would humbly ask you to go and read the words of Jesus our Lord and measure yourself against them. Its the type of attitude that you display so openly here that so many find hard to stomach and so cruel - are you showing a Christlike heart here? Brian is a gentle, kind and loving soul and God is using him hugely - he changed my life for the better in a big way for one. Try to see beyond the log in your own eye my dear firend .....please. Bless you. @@Joesfosterdogs

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@stringbean6712 Please keep reading your bible for yourself and listen to some real preachers that teach God's actual word. It is loving to correct false doctrine and to save the naive and gullible from the jaws of wolves posing as shepherds. The judgment against false shepherds is very harsh. His teaching might have made you feel good about yourself, since you likely don't have to see yourself as a sinner in need of a savior, but it's all love and light and feel good and saving the planet. Please pray, read your bible and listen to some sound reproof of this man's teaching. There are good pastors who can and do disprove this man. I and other commenters who know the bible well can easily pick out all the errors.

[@angelgirldebbiejo]

@@stringbean6712 they won't remove the log from their own eye first, they'd rather sit ans judge and burn people at the stake, the fact that people are leaving the churches in droves and waking up is proof of their actions....God is not happy with their judgement. There is a great awakening happening as of the last ten year's and there's no stopping it.

[@nld-bl5ct]

I am glad this gentleman was not my pastor. He is trying to intellectualize everything, especially Faith, to be like a child's. The is to sell his books, is it not? I was able to listen only about 23 minutes and that is it!! This is bad stuff!

[@charlenerolle1623]

What’s with all the questions 🤔

[@jimricks1]

The evangelicals seem to corner the comments on this talk. The new developments in Christian thinking are both provocative and somewhat infuriating to them. Interesting paradox.

[@anaximandrakelijah1442]

FALSE TEACHER !!, hahaha the Bible is the Constitution of Mankind,Jn 12:44-50 the Words of Jesus literally are going to be used to judge the Unbelieving mankind as a constitution is used to Determine Justice in a Nation, as Jesus is the living Word and he and his words are the Law.

[@Joesfosterdogs]

Here is a question guys like this never answer...WHAT of ALL the people who believed what you now say is incorrect? How can this not be discussed? Brian, who says we got it wrong by 180 degrees is preaching another gospel of hope. OK...he is also saying all those who got it wrong until now are....???? Going to hell? Fools? Deceived? This is extremely serious to consider! We are talking billions of people over the centuries! People who placed their hope in what he was a call a traditional gospel, a reformed gospel, a gospel of Paul? What?

[@Joesfosterdogs]

i did not make the rules up...Paul, appointed from God (IF you believe that) was very clear about preaching another gospel. better to become a plumber than to deceive people. Being naive is not an excuse. Brian has no biblical hamartiology. Thus, he is not biblical, thus, he is a deceiver. Better to be a new age guru than claim the name of Christ.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

This is the arrogance of these emergent church and new age guru types. We just didn't know God's word or know how to be Christians until this incredible godsend of a man came to explain how we got it all wrong. It's really the snake in the garden's original trick: "did God really say that? Is it really what God meant? Let me tell you what he's been holding out on you about." Satan isn't original, he's not the creator like Jesus is.

[@mariafernandez1241]

1. 2 Corintios 11:13: Porque éstos son falsos apóstoles, obreros fraudulentos, que se disfrazan como apóstoles de Cristo.

[@sallysalmon8847]

My eyes and mind have been opened amazingly by your writings...A generous orthodoxy and Everything must change and I have started a conversation group around the latter. Coming from South Africa, I believe it has great importance for this stage in our country. In the light of us being the murder capitol of the world, of any country not at war and the horrendous crimes committed against children,what are your thoughts about the death penalty for murder and rape of children some as young as 6 months old

[@dylanjames7031]

You will always have those with itching e4rs to self d3c3ive.

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

R Wilkinson et al have done great work on how violence correlates with socioeconomic inequality. As for punishment, how is the death penalty consistent with Jesus´ intentions? Gandhi studied some Jesus, as he also had a law degree and was reoriented to Hinduism by Theosophy, and in his immense wisdom, had a great answer to the man who was torn by his own murder of a child in revenge for his child´s murder, in Hindu-Muslim violence. Now, for a penal system, the calculation of rehabilitation has to be more secure. Work in the fields, for one. Ram Dass had a prison ministry teaching meditation. Christian Scientists have prison ministries. That´s the idea.

[@leeds48]

I have an innate aversion to knee-jerk fundamentalist reactions as offered by Tom Lessing - not to mention the irony, when the topic is Christian theology and he's calling those with whom he disagrees "stupid." McLaren is anything but stupid. I can't help but notice, however, that McLaren is no less of an ideologue on the left, although far more subtle and tactful in manner. His definition of a Christian is hardly distinguishable from how you might define "liberal activist" or hard-working socialist, i.e.., anyone who is working for "social justice" - which is, in effect, a euphemism for, among other things, forcible income redistribution, and government takeover and control of the private sector - all in the name of "liberation." Can the whole world really be divided up into oppressors and oppressed? Is this the best model we've got? If everyone in the world had the same income - would this be a perfect world? Is "justice" all about money?

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

This was 7 years ago, and a shame no one ever answered until now. As a guy who became a progressive activist starting with an interfaith path, I´ve done more than my homework as I engaged with Christianity explicitly. When you equate "social justice" with one association, that´s not well informed. That´s one association, and as a fixation, ideological. Irony comes back around, as you started observing a fundamentalist Christian´s comments, but then you assert the term "ideologue" as your platform. McLaren has laid out a powerful generalized Socratic(and add, say, -Aquinas (Thomistic)) framework to address the scope of Christian church doctrines, for one, in a way that an individual spiritual seeker can engage with, as in the sense of a Quaker-Friend. You do get yourself to ask about "the best model we´ve got", and the meaning of "(social) justice." In a few words, it´s about empowerment, activism, and ownership. Are "oppressors" and the "oppressed" real and relevant? Good question. Are you interested in an answer? Income issues? Are you still interested? What is the meaning of "money" in it all? I studied Bio Anthro, taught in Africa, did social services in NYC, studied psychotherapy closely, did personal growth work attentively, kept paying attention to Public Interest not for profit organizing like the consumer activist PIRGs, Greenpeace, grand old lady Sierra Club, and Oxfam, etc. Then I joined a food co-op, worked in Financial Customer Services, and got my masters in International Relations. You´ve ultimately got to ask yourself and the world why things like Fair Trade certification are formulated and succeed. It´s based on the co-op pro-social biz model, which was founded in the 1840s. They founded an international org by 1895, and a US org by 1920. A Spanish priest started a polytech and co-op training institute for underprivileged kid that graduated five guys who started a company manufacturing stoves. They called in the priest and made their company a co-op that became the Mondragon co-op complex. Emiglia Romana Italy has something not so different, while Germany´s Mitbestimmung Work Council law is a little different, and Denmark´s collective bargaining law is as well. You´re all tied up in knots about egalitarianism? It sounds like you could use a dose of the "shoe being on the other foot," "walking in another guy´s shoes for a while," and seeing "how the other half lives." Hey, I taught science in Africa, caseworked substance abusers in NYC, and volunteered in a UU homeless shelter for years. Beat that.

[@judithknights-rayson9284]

How very sad! He wants to introduce a new kind of Chrisianity? This man has no idea what Christianity is about. 1) God create us to bear His own image and His own likeness. 2) God is HOLY and He Is Spirit. He transferred His image and likeness (the Holy Spirit), into the first man, Adam by blowing into his nostrils, the breath of His own ETERNAL LIFE. 3) God warned Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, or he would die. 4) Eve picked and ate the fruit. Nothing happened to her. But when she gave some to Adam who was with her, something terrible happened. They were traumatized by guilt and shame. The presence of the Holy Spirit left them and in a panic they made garments of figleaves to cover their nakedness. 5) When God came to visit them they hid from him. 6) when He asked why Adam was hiding, Adam pointed his finger ACCUSINGLY at Eve and then at God "The woman You put here with me -- she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it". 7) A God asked Eve what she had done, She pointed fingers and accused, "The serpent deceived me and I ate". 8) Their reaction shows they were beginning to absorb the character of their new overlord -- Satan the accuser of thr brethren. 9) Adam and Eve did not die physically, but they died SPIRITUALLY. And every person conceived since that time, except for Jesus, has been conceived without the Holy Spirit, and we are born DEAD in/with the trespasses,and sins passed down from our ancestors. 10) Joh 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he5sent his only Son that those who bieve in hmshould not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE.(See 2 above) 11) How can we receive God's ETERNAL LIFE? By being BORN AGAIN. Joh 3:3 Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, no-one can SEE the kingdom of God, UNLESS he is BORN AGAIN". Joh 1:12 "Yet to ALL who RECEIVED Him (Jesus), to those who BELIEVED in His name, HE gave the right to become children of God. Children not born of human dscision, but born of God. 13) A true Christian is someone who has received Jesus as their Saviour and Lord. This man preaches "love your neighbour"in this lifetime, but don't worry about ehrre they will spend their ETERNITY.

[@lessingtom]

We can only understand God by the way He reveals Himself to us in his Word. If our understanding of him should NOT remain the same but change by virtue of our so-called spiritual journey, He would have to reveal Himself to us in another way. That's absurd, to say the least.

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

You miss the sense of basic teachings like "Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven" Matt 6:33. Do you think that that means just reading and quoting the Bible all day, probably getting into quarrels like kids or hateful judgmental speech like many evangelicals? And 2000 years of Jesus´ legacy have led to what, exactly? Do you know who George Fox, founder of the Quaker-Friends, was? T Clarkson, who led anti-slavery abolition in the UK? Michael Faraday who had no University education but became a major physicist? And so on. Jesus taught "Clean the cup on the inside where there is wickedness". Do you know the relevance of University-based psychology, Freud, Jung, and Rogers to that? "What you do to the least of these", do you know who Jane Addams was, helping the poor? Jesus also made clear, "Not all those who say "Lord, Lord" will enter the K of H. Those who do the will of my Father in Heaven will enter." Matt 7:21. Absurd is idolatry of the Bible as if it were stone tablets. Jesus taught 2 loving Commandments. Time to learn what they mean. McLaren has the right idea.

[@lessingtom]

@@robinhoodstfrancis You know a lot of people but unfortunately not the truth. Please quote Matthew 7:21 in its proper context. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Mat 7:21-23). Let us bring it closer to your understanding of it. Here goes. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works like establishing the Quaker-Friends, abolishing the slave trade in the British Empire, became a physicist without a university education, and holding seances like Carl Jung? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Mat 7:21-23). Freud's theories have nothing to do with science but were based upon his own perversions, mostly sexual. He lusted for his own mother. This is according to his biographies. He was a cocaine addict, a drug which he then recommended to his colleagues to prescribe for their patients. Carl Jung was suicidal throughout his life. He communed with demons and had a number of spirit guides. His idea of the collective unconscious was really a God-replacement theory. Rogers was going to seminary when he decided to go into psychology at Union Theological Seminary in New York, where he turned his back on God’s Word, the Bible. He not only abandoned God’s Word but also his cancer-stricken wife for another woman. When his cancer-stricken wife died he glibly said you must be true to yourself. “She’s dying, so why should I be true to her? I have to be true to myself,” and he picked up another relationship. To quieten his conscience (yes, even adulterers have something like a conscience), he attended a séance and supposedly heard his wife saying, “It’s okay, Carl. No problem” and that made him feel really good about himself. You need to repent of your evil Kingdom-now propensities, my friend, and the sooner the better.

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

@@lessingtom And só this is how the Created Universe and legacy of God through Jesus flushes out your kind. You want “proper context” and you think you´re “bringing it closer to my understanding”? My context is Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity. You have been caged by the iniquity that you only know how to project. And it´s in your blindness to your own judgmentalism that covers your hatred, feelings of hatred actually, for starters. “Ye that work iniquity” then clearly is a key point in your idolatry of text while missing its meaning. What would be the basis for Jesus´ integrity in that? And your understanding? What exactly is the standard you see in Jesus´ critique of “prophesying” and “casting out devils,” dear soul? Apostle Paul, for his part, recognizes the different talents people will bring. But, you try to roughly establish the standard as “imperfection.” You try to equate one imperfection with total invalidation of an individual´s worth. Actually, for the Quaker-Friends, abolishing slavery, and Faraday´s exceptional career, you try to slip by without a peep. Perhaps you try to cast a sly comment by relying the term “wonderful works.” Sadly for you, you miss Jesus´ points of integrity, since I´m not the one just saying “'Lord, Lord' etc.” You are. In your lust for legalistic judgmentalism that channels your unloving feelings, i.e. Hypocrisy to say the least, you were caught in Jesus´ kind of trap. You equate, “Lord, Lord” with “wonderful works,” smug that Jesus turns his back on what can only mean “wonderful works” that aren´t legalistic judgmentalism. What are Jesus´ teachings about God´s will, then? Didn´t Jesus teach legalistic judgmentalism? Hardly. Thus, you try to invalidate my view by equating it with the faults of those part of the general reference I cite in Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity. Freud´s theories suddenly weren´t pioneering and full of value for Freud´s own legacy. You don´t know Freud´s value, nor apparently how to balance criticism for his faults. Instead, his brilliant initial identification of what is now known as child sexual abuse you reduce to what? “Nothing scientific, perversions, mostly sexual, incestual, his drug addiction, its prescription.” Oh, and because he admits it all in his biographies, it is still worse than horrible. Is that your fair and balanced scholarly perspective? Well, that´s one-sided, that much is clear. Justified? Any position and view that is lopsided is inaccurate and judgmental, not balanced, informed, and fair. What were Jesus´ words about the rich young man seeking perfection in God, who left disappointed when told he needed to sell all he had and following Jesus? “When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth. 23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.....” Matt 19, as if Jesus meant what he said when he said, “Judge not lest you be judged,” and “go and learn....” Matt 9:13. A simple look is enough to inform a healthy soul that the Bible is insufficient, besides not being “written in stone.” When Jesus said, “go and learn...”, that has deep implications, and can be combined with John 14:12 “These things that I do, you too shall do, and greater,” and John 6:45 “God will teach. Those who listen and learn will arrive in me (Jesus).” But, not you. You want to judge, not learn. You try to criticize Freud as “unscientific.” In your judgmentalism, you also try to invalidate with your own idolatry of science, a revealing combination. The honest reconciliation of science and Christianity isn´t in the idolatry of science, but recognizing “science” as a popularized technophile term for a form of empiricism, meaning empirical philosophy. Freud didn´t need to be “scientific” since he was developing therapy with living creatures, very unmechanical human beings. Freud was empirical and using applicable methodology. Freud pioneered talk therapy in his first book Studies in Hysteria in 1896, identified what we know today as child abuse, and just as importantly how talk therapy heals in emotional “abreaction” meaning “reconnection,” and “catharsis” meaning healing alleviation and release. In the larger picture of historical sociology, Freud´s initial steps have been diversified and deepened, not his human faults, unresolved issues or whatever. Alice Miller was a psychoanalyst advancing the emotional depth in a fairly direct line, before she abandoned ship herself. Jung´s own advances in Transpersonal psychology advanced an issue you neglected to mention, Freud´s atheism. By all the diverse paths that followed John Bradshaw appeared not least of all by 1990 with his dysfunctional family framework and transpersonal inner child approach, among other techniques and rich field of diverse practitioners. Spiritual and religious needs were even recognized recently in the DSM-V in psychiatry and clinical psychology. That is the meaning of “Love thy neighbor as thyself,” and the kind of analysis that seeks not judgment, nor condemnation, but to counsel, identify mustard seeds and rich soil, distinguish rocky from sandy souls, uh, soils, and to create the Great Banquet. Or don´t you quite get the concept of discerning the coherent message? Has the door to the kingdom of Heaven been shut to you só that you don´t know how to want to enter anymore? Matt 23:13. You´re no freethinker. You are parroting someone else´s doctrine of fire, brimstone, ignorance, greed, and hatred. and trying to pass it off as "truth" and a call to "repentance." You have met the enemy, and I show you for God through Jesus how it is you, and your job is to love your enemy, not hate. Sound familiar, ? I´ll be glad to continue my analysis and response, but not right now. Clearly, you are psychologically indoctrinated to ignore Jesus´ teachings about “become like a child,” Matt 18, the salvation of Zacchaeus in Luke 19, and “let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.” But really, learning that Jesus taught 2 Commandments that weren´t “Judge thy neighbor as thyself” is your basic task, as is studying Zacchaeus´ salvation. You are low in Christian integrity, and that is no judgment. That is an evaluation. Of the few good points you demonstrate só far, it is as basic as valuing Jesus´ relevance. Now you just need to learn the meaning and action of integrity. If you are able to "break" or otherwise drop the chains that clearly bind you to misguided, judgmental, and at bottom, the hateful judgment of the victimized who want to continue that cycle of doctrinal violence. As Jesus never taught healing, the washing of feet, and got Resurrected.

[@lessingtom]

@@robinhoodstfrancis Did Jesus say that many who boast that they have done great works in his name will not make it to heaven, or not? You seem to rather extol the abominable works of heretics like Jung, Freud, and Rogers than Jesus Christ and his cross. Your comment is overly constipated but says nothing. In fact, you are promoting a false love, false integrity, and moreover, a false gospel. I think "The lady doth protest too much."

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

​@@lessingtom Well, you want to interpret Jesus Matt 7 as condemning "boasters," yet the quote indicates those who did prophecy and did perform miracles in Jesus´ name, genuinely as far as they go. The issue isn´t made clear, except in the roteness of referring to God literally, as you try to do in your skewed judgmental way, or God´s will. God´s will is identified in Jesus´ 2 loving Commandments for Moses and God, and the range of teachings in the NT, that are overwhelmingly about love and not judgmentalism. As such, the evaluations I give reflect how God´s will can be assessed in the historical and cultural development in Jesus´ legacy. The problems certainly include secularism and any legitimate deviations such as infidelity and any wayward drug addiction and use. You have to study subjects with discipline and attention, a product of loving concern, and not judgmentalism, to avoid your distortions and other fallacious issues such as equating personal foibles with professional accomplishments, and historical chronological factors. That includes appreciating the balance of issues, and most importantly the real accomplishments people have made. God´s will is not imprisoned stone-like in the NT, and the Quaker-Friends accomplishments, including helping lead the end of slavery, are a good demonstration of how Jesus´ legacy of loving integrity has been modernized before the Q-F´s, includes other accomplishments at the same time by others in other areas, like John Locke´s book Reasonableness of Christianity, and since them including FDR´s and Eleanor´s UN human rights, and now sustainability. And how do you communicate? With terms that reduce you to nothing more than judgmentalism and all that obscures, instead of precision, love, and clarity. And that´s all you´re concerned with. I preach "false love"? Where is there any notion of love except for judgmentalism and condemnation in your communication? You value "God´s word," as a start, and it is full of checks for the judgmentalism you wield so unlovingly. God´s word is not about condemning Freud, Jung, and "heretics." Freud achieved important insights thanks to his University education long after Thomas of Aquinas and DesCartes´ historical phases. Jung and others came along and went further, and it is in balanced applications that you can do what Paul asserted so wisely, "Test all things. Hold on to what is good." 1 Thess 5. In addition to your utter disregard for Jesus´ teaching about becoming like children, blooming like a mustard seed in rich soil, yeast in kneaded dough, and a house on rock not sand, you can´t find any use for those encouraging and inspiring principles that Jesus very much taught. I teach "false love"? I dare you to teach anything besides condemnation and judgmentalism. Discernment is one thing. Fixated and hateful judgment clouds your view, and closes you to the light the fuels the deeds that honor God, that Jesus also taught, as I quoted previously. I dare you.

[@charisvarnadore9862]

I so wish that we could eliminate the words "Leader" and "Leadership" from the Christian vocabulary. Even when I hear McLaren use the word, I cannot help but cringe.

[@dburgessnotburger]

Y?

[@virgiltabry3979]

It would not be a very good idea to go back straight to the beginning, bypassing the lenses of the historical christian fathers, for that would mean a double no-no. 1) reinventing the wheel, and 2) rejecting jesus' Church building strategy, which is based on making disciples who make disciples who make disciples who make disciples... Brian McLaren seems to be a rebel who thinks he can make it on his own and start Church all over again, 20 centuries on. He does not need church/spiritual fathers. He wants to consider himself a disciple of Jesus, directly, personally. No wonder he is one of the leaders of the 'emerging' church. Please note, Mr McLaren, the Bible is not written primarily for English literature 'scholars' in order for them to prove their own academic acumen. Neither is the gift of leadership (or teaching, for that matter) to be developed/exercised at the expense of the theological heritage that the church fathers have left for us, in most cases, written with their own blood. Calvin, Luther, Augustin and any church father in-between (none of them english literature scholars!), would turn over in their graves, were they to hear your dismissive assertions of their theological contribution to the current ecclesiological landscape. I, too, had moments in my teens when i thought I was more clever than my dad, but eventually, i grew out of it. Fortunately I did not major in English literature. In fact i didn't know a word in English (perhaps to my advantage) when i first red the Bible in my native language. God bless you Mr McLaren.

[@drjohnkjohnson1738]

Qq1q1

[@Tom-iw3zh]

A church apart from God? A church of lies instead of truth? A church of selfishness instead of selflessness? This is not the Church of Jesus Christ, it is of Satan.

[@julieminchin1424]

Brilliant. lm struggling with the church, all denominations. Might go back to buddhism

[@pilgriminprogress6668]

This "emergent church" should be renamed the Brian Mc Lien church.

[@dylanjames7031]

luc1f3r14ns / s4T4ni1sts d1sgu1sed as g0sp3L speakers. If you have a KJV bible and you read it, then you will see past all of the L13S.

[@petercarr2533]

The bible is the word of God!? Don't be silly

[@IAmisMaster]

Heresies aren't new.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Nope, they sure aren't. This guy is pretty slick at repacking heresy though.

[@dylanjames7031]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 - A KJV b1ble that is well read fixes this. D34Th to luc1f3r14n / s4T4nic / w1tchcr4ft, z10n1st - jesu1T (M4RR4N0), ensl4ved-m4s0nry, c0mmie / s0c14L1st, L1BT4RD, s3xu4L d3g3n3r4te, gl0b4Lism.

[@marksmith351]

Hmm, Im pretty sure that when Brian McLaren listens to his bible app he listening to the version read by Satan.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

That's a great way to sum it up. Yikes. Even my Catholic old man, who admits he doesn't know the bible too well gets angry over how much this guy twists God's word and leads people horribly astray.

[@evanjacoby]

This individual is a blasphemer of truth and devourer of the innocent. He will haplessly lead those who follow him into a world of destruction. He is a wolf among the sheep and is in collusion either knowingly or unknowingly with the destroyer.

[@jager21465]

careful there.......read the word through the lense of Christ.....the new testament is a much needed do over. Please read it

[@patrick9501]

Very obvious to any bible reader, (whether they be a bible-believer or not) that this guy has tried (too hard!), to create a doctrine he can write a book on and give talks on...for money and maybe fame.I always find it useful to watch these types, so I can help any one ensnared by their folly

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

Here here.

[@greenbank4800]

how presumptive and religiously arrogant an attitude to assume one is so correct in values and religious position that your appointed role is to cruise the internet seeking "ensnared" people to rescue. I suggest a reread of proverbs on humility, arrogance and pride before a fall. A read of Matthew on eye, logs and seeing better could be in order

[@jimjohnson3349]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 did you mean "hear hear"?

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@jimjohnson3349 Yes I did, thanks.

[@LaurenHPotts]

False

[@lauracaskey2753]

False teaching

[@johnbrittlebank1450]

The main things are the plain things,and the plain things are the main things, Jesus chose mostly thickos,unschooled fishermen,I don't think they would have understood this guy.i don't.

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

At least you must know what hateful evangelicals are like.

[@davidhess1019]

F L E E !