Street Fighter Oddities

[@BigYellowSilly]

Imagine getting kicked in he head by Honda and just going "ow my leg"

[@mohammedosman4902]

yeah...we can skip the concussion test on this one

[@LunaMinuna]

His brain isn’t functioning properly

[@IamNster]

I'm just thinking of the opponent reacting with the sajam voice clip "STEVE MY ARM!!"

[@aj_gen_ace]

They do that in Mortal Kombat 4. You break an opponent's arm or stomp on them and they scream "MY LEG!"

[@zantetsuken-zero]

"Augh! My ears burn!"

[@Nynjason]

Honda’s first name is Edmond.

[@dekuskrub2154]

The M in M. Bison stands for "Money"

[@bruceleeds7988]

@@dekuskrub2154 it actually stands for Mike

[@dekuskrub2154]

@@bruceleeds7988 nah, it stands for "Richard"

[@Sness]

*Electric

[@dmdkdkrkfksn4324]

No his first name is E

[@Ali-fs7ze]

*Everyone talking about Strive release* Theory: So anyway, here's some old Street Fighter Jank.

[@bruceleeds7988]

I love theory Fighter because he shows that Shenanigans in Fighting games have always existed and where

[@theredcomet844]

As a strive and Xrd player who hardly ever played SF, bring the videos bro.

[@rebirth2526]

Mankind knew

[@suburbanflower]

I’m still so surprised no one made a mod that added the new generation or second impact stages to third strike. Such beautiful art styles!!

[@ryo-kai8587]

I was just noticing those backgrounds, and I would definitely appreciate such a mod

[@nebiyuesayas5600]

I think that might be harder than you think. In the arcade version of SF3, you don't pick a stage, you just get whatever that character has. You'd have to replace existing stages. As for console rereleases, you can pick your stage, but it's pretty difficult if not impossible to mod the console variant without some issues. If there's ever another 3S remake, I do hope they reuse the old themes and stages (maybe some of the characters get their 2I stages/themes back, some keep their 3S ones, and any new characters can get the unused ones), but for now, it doesn't seem likely.

[@suburbanflower]

@@nebiyuesayas5600 I know it’s not easy but I’ve seen incredible mods for DOA2 that add so much content to the game. Talented modders exist and can do anything for the right amount of coin. It’s only a matter of time

[@combomamba]

After seeing what's been done with Ocarina of Time and Sonic 3 as of late, anything is possible if you don't get sued into the ground

[@ori.g4mi]

I have a few more interesting oddities about SF3 in particular that I don't see mentioned often and I had to bury out of old shoryuken threads. 1. in 3rd Strike, when Remy gets KO'd by Yang, Yang can jab him repeatedly in the corner until the game decides to move on to the next round. This is useless but usually, a jab after a KO knocks an opponent down, Remy though stays standing, meaning he can take more than one or two jabs, and it only works with Yang for some reason. I lost to a Yang as Remy before and he repeatedly jabbed me up to like 5 times before Yang did his victory animation 2. Ken can stand in the air in Second Impact when he light shoryuken's into the pushing wind that Gill's resurrection generates. When you parry a move while standing in the air, you get launched in one direction until you're hit again. 3. Makoto is completely invulnerable after her neutral throw for much longer than every other character. A full laggy b.HP from Chun-Li right after her neutral throw passes right through Makoto and Chun-Li ends up on the other side. Even a Super Art III from Ken just passes right through her, even though she appears to be standing in her idle animation shortly after her move. 4. Dudley can do the first two hits of his Target Combo in New Generation against himself over and over. its an infinite. The Player 2 Dudley can't recover in time after the second hit and you just start the combo over instead of ending it with a third. twitter.com/Ishtar42077725/status/1311308785571508226 Here's an example on my twitter 5. Sean in 3rd Strike can hit SA2 twice in a row in one combo if done on the corner and with the first one being used while the opponent is airborne with his back on the corner. Just SA2, then do a standing HK before the opponent lands, then do another SA2. On Akuma, this does SO much damage that might fool you into thinking Sean is a good character. 6. Remy can freeze Urien forever. When Urien does an Aegis Reflector, neutral throw Urien while the Reflector moves in on you and get hit by hit during your animation. Urien is now frozen in place, can't move at all and you can wait out the timer. Its hilarious and I had someone quit on me on fightcade for that (sorry!)

[@minhso12]

Allow me to add one more oddity: Ken can freeze Makoto in around 10 seconds if he finished her with a knee press grapple (aka neutral throwing). After KO announcement Makoto will be freezing at hurting animation frame for about 10 secs. Then she will lie down and the game is back to normal. Ken wins.

[@ori.g4mi]

@@minhso12 while Makoto is frozen you can hit her with Kens taunt haha

[@xandert8527]

To be honest you don't even need HK. Depending on juggle height and how much you mash, you could just do another DP, mainly light or medium, but heavy can connect sometimes.

[@RTU130]

Fr

[@HEHEHE_I_AM_A_MASKED_WARRIA]

Here's another one: there is a technique that exists only in the arcade version of 2nd Impact. In that game (and NG), universal overhead is input with down, down, and any attack button. In 2nd Impact, you can actually use an EX version of the UOH by pressing two buttons of the same type (i.e. two punches or two kicks, but not a punch and a kick). What's odd about this is that the yellow EX flash does not appear when you do this, nor does that "sheeew" sound play. The only indicator is a sudden loss of meter and the metallic sound usually associated with Urien blocking an attack (which plays during all EX moves in 2I for some reason, on top of the regular sound). This is technically the only EX move that Akuma and Gill can use in the III series. What's even odder is that, unlike regular EX specials, EX overhead can be used during "timer" supers (Oro's Kishin Riki, Yun's Gen'ei Jin, and Yang's Sei'ei Enbu). Doing this will drain meter as normal, shortening the duration of the super. However, by timing this technique on a certain frame (when the amount of time left is equal to the cost of EX), your super timer will suddenly refill, and when it ends it will show a glitched mass of pixels where the number of stocks should be. This rollover effectively gives you infinite meter for the rest of the match. Furthermore, this technique was removed from the Dreamcast port, which means the infinite meter glitch was effectively patched out as well. This, combined with the odd properties not present in regular EX special moves, leads me to believe that the very existence of EX overhead in the arcade version is a bug.

[@bageltoo]

6:31 the kicks are synced to the music lmao

[@sorma007]

Yo, nice catch 😂

[@Hanesboi]

LMFAO this is the type of comment I like

[@stotab8700]

6:32 love that music sync up

[@hi-i-am-atan]

the weird stun values sound like the devs just forgot to assign an actual value to those moves. like, not even necessarily that they full-on lack a value in the data and the internal default is 1 or whatever, but stuff like the data structure skeleton they copied to save time had 1 as its stun value and just ... nobody remembered to change it hell, the stuff like the 3 could be similar, where it's like that because the skeleton had its values changed during development, or because it was copied from another move that had 3 stun at the time. honestly, the fact that the stun values are _mostly_ standardized makes this sort of thing feel more likely, because it means that there's a good chance that a bunch of moves had values copied off of others as a time-saving habit ... which also means that it's possible that a fair few moves have weird stun values _because they were based off of moves that themselves had weird stun values_

[@PatriciaCross]

I was thinking this as well. its also possible its some sort of 'Overflow" issue. If the variable for Basic moves stun values was given a capped range for some reason and the people filling in the stun data forgot or were unaware. In which case, these moves may have actually been intended to have higher than usual stun and it exceeded a limit that was set somewhere else for such a move, and then defaulted to a lower value. Like say the game had limits set on basic move stun values as 3/5/8 with a min of 1, and entering a higher number winds up starting back at 1. So entering a 4/6/9 respectively would give you a Stun value of 1. The odd 3s could be someone entering a value 3 higher than the limit.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

@@PatriciaCross while _strictly_ possible, realistically it would only be feasible if the stun values actually maxed out at 7 or 15, and the 7 only works out if all moves add a minimum of 1 stun because then you'd need to add 1 to the value after retrieving it from the move data to end up with moves with 8 stun ( which would also make it impossible to make a move with 0 stun without some sort of special flag ). otherwise, you'd end up with a situation where the overflow isn't the result of using only three or four bits of a word to store stun values, but some manually implemented overflow function which would be ... utterly bizarre in this context, to say the least hell, even the standard type of overflow feels a bit iffy, because using so few bits of a word only really happens if you're using that word to contain multiple values - which would mean one of those values overflowing would impact the other values within the word. if the moves with weird stun values also regularly had other types of jank, then that could be a good sign that the stun values _are_ overflowing, but i feel like that would've been something significant to mention. 'course, it's possible that the stun value is stored in the _upper_ bits of the word, thus causing the overflown bit to be lost like in typical full-word overflow, or whatever value the stun value overflows into isn't something that's significantly influenced by what's effectively just a +1 to any integer value or maybe the hardware used legitimately allowed for the declaration of 3-bit or 4-bit integers. would the game a pain in the ass to port, though still, i feel like copy-paste thing is a lot more likely, since that's the sorta mistake that's evergreen for any programmer, whereas overflowing with such tiny values is only realistically gonna happen when utilizing some pretty advanced byte manipulation that, honestly, would probably be a bit overkill at space-saving, even for the time

[@BainesMkII]

@@PatriciaCross I don't think it is an overflow issue. The clip of the spreadsheet shows stun values for Normals could be any integer from 1 to 8, which indeed you could squeeze into an easy to overflow 3-bit value. However, other moves (specials, taunts, etc) require a much larger valid range (and thus a much harder to overflow higher bit count). Further, you find moves at all three strength levels that end up with 1 stun. Even if you allowed for a "less than 3" to be dropped to 1 and a "more than 8" to overflow back to 1, that doesn't explain stuff like Sakura's crouching Medium Kick dealing 1 stun while her cLK does 3 and her cHK does 7.

[@kayeffty]

Similar to Honda's air low, Dio in Heritage for The Future has an air special who's first hit "stores" the properties of whatever move Dio last whiffed. A common corner okizeme is knockdown, whiff low, jump in and either perform the special (which is now a low) and combo into knockdown, or press an air button (a high) and combo into knockdown, and repeating.

[@happycamperds9917]

2:55 This reminds me how, in Melee, Yoshi’s shield is throw invulnerable the first few frames it is activated.

[@LunaMinuna]

And it has a shorter range than Marth’s

[@happycamperds9917]

@@LunaMinuna I’m not referring to the weird hotbox on his throw, I’m referring to his parry.

[@bloodydoll5897]

whst

[@Jibbert]

Well that one's actually intentional since otherwise Yoshi would have the slowest shield in Melee. It's just that the window also happens to be jump-cancellable lol

[@SailorWhyachi]

Thing is, it's also just invulnerable to regular attacks as well, which is why you see it so consistently

[@alliahcherry6721]

I'm actually mad how GORGEOUS New Generation is, big rip about the actual game though.

[@chiarosuburekeni9325]

I still play NG and 2I far more than 3S. I'm alright at fighters but not good enough to where all the first 2 games' shortcomings matter much. I prefer the music and visuals over those far more than Third Strike

[@ori.g4mi]

New Gen is a TON of fun because almost everyone has an infinite or can stun really fast

[@Faffel]

I couldn't figure out where the Bongripper song was playing from and I was frantically searching through all my music programs trying to find what was playing it. Nice choice.

[@IYPITWL]

The Q while rising stance is how VF works in practice. Duck right when opponent rushes in to low profile an a throw and sometimes you block mids while rising. (Mids beat low)

[@TheoryFighter]

Oh that's actually a really interesting parallel. I didn't think of that.

[@Skycrusher]

VF?

[@CalebSu-pv1bj]

2:32 The 3rd strike intro is adorable. I like to imagine the girl like "Chun-Li, can you teach me how to become the second strongest woman in the world?"

[@MasterChibi]

My favorite is that Super Turbo has that 1/125 chance of a random move happening out of nowhere, if I'm not mistaken. As in you could get dizzied off a standing jab or suddenly undizzied instantly after being dizzied or a whole mess of other things that literally don't follow any logic in the game.

[@TheBigAEC]

6:32 I love that all of Ken's kicks are on beat.

[@meathir4921]

It’s funny how you’d think modern fighting games would get better at this, and for the most part have, but then there’s stuff like one of Dhalsim’s buttons not being counter hittable on the 3rd frame of start up in SFV. I think FGs are too unpredictable for developers to cover every base players can find.

[@Norskolld]

6:32 Ken's kicks lining up with the music is so satisfying.

[@CWunderA]

I think I figured out the alpha 3 stun logic. From what I can tell it looks like it was based on the move animations. The ones with lower stun "look" less strong, typically being short, quick jabs. They are basically the ones where if I just showed you the animation, you would likely guess they were one tier lower (medium instead of strong or light instead of medium). It also seems like punches tend to get down-weighted more than kicks (ie if a punch and a kick both look "weak" the punch is more likely to be downgraded than the kick, as seen here with sakura) For example, Ryu's air heavy kick looks a lot stronger than just sticking out a fist. Ken's standing heavy kick carries a lot of weight, being almost a roundhouse whereas Adon's kick is just an average front kick. If just shown the animations, I would definitely guess Ken's was a heavy kick, but would probably have guessed Adon's was only a standing medium kick.

[@CrossfacePanda]

Your videos are great, the music is great, keep on doin’ you man. Oh, and Heather was great, too. Hope she appears in more videos down the line.

[@bloodydoll5897]

same

[@jaykelley103]

A girl

[@LtheOriginal]

(Q's invulnerable to ground throws when he's in that transitional state) Oh yeah as if anyone can use that in a match... INSERT KURODA HERE.

[@coleburns362]

Second Impact having supers lock you into a state to disable throw teching reminds me of newer games like GG and BB having supers lock you out of Burst.

[@EXDSPRTS]

thank you so much for having me on! hope we get to work together again

[@mohammedosman4902]

subscribed!

[@TheCJRhodes]

Ooooh, it's HeaTHer, not HeaVer like TheoryFighter pronounces it O_O

[@kyyourneutralisminekiske7104]

Consider me a new subscriber!

[@nebiyuesayas5600]

The man himself! This ought to have been pinned

[@denjin_hado]

Babe wake up new theoryfighter video

[@VictorAlvarez-kn6lv]

Why the music goes so well at 6:30 when Ken is jusk kicking Adon? Its perfectly timed!

[@camtheman7654]

I loved it when Hugo threw Gill at a wall like his play thing.

[@ramseydoon8277]

Hell yes, more TheoryFighter, shoot the heavy FGC doomsludge right into my veins

[@Blahblahblah-s9x]

3:09 That's when TM took out 2 or 3 makotos in a character team battle right? That's a fun set to watch.

[@PabloAvilaEstevez]

Nope, that was the Kuroda vs Tominaga FT10 that went down to the wire. Incredible set, that particular matchup is probably the most lopsided in all of Third Strike in Makoto's favor, but Kuroda and his skill narrowed that gap tremendously

[@Aile-SoMi]

@@PabloAvilaEstevez there's a reason Kuroda to me is the God of 3rd Strike. Shame how his life turned out

[@theguywithadifferentopinio9060]

@@Aile-SoMi what happened to him

[@ultralance]

For a second I was like, "When did I put on Bongripper?" and started looking through my tabs, distracting me from your video for a minute there. Subscribed.

[@SpringdayAutumnmoon]

My theory about Alpha 3's stun is that the director listed a bunch of moves he wanted nerfed stun on and someone in the dev team didn't realize he only meant by one or two frames and cut it down to the absolute minimum just to be sure. They then marked the task as completed and then nobody bothered to check it, so the game shipped with that oversight in mind.

[@mollywantshugs5944]

Fillia in Skullgirls had a low air move for a time. It was later nerfed to be a mid though

[@doctordink2782]

Came here for the fighting game content, stayed for the banger doom and stoner tracks.

[@mug8429]

Great video! Loved all the details on the oddities and Heather was a fantastic addition, would love to see her in more videos Also im surprised the 2I Twins infinite meter glitch wasnt mentioned

[@rolandkatsuragi]

7:01 It could just be oversight as this was the third game the developers had worked on outside of Street Fighter II, beyond COTA and Darkstalkers.

[@andrealmeida6831]

Learned a lot with your contribution in the London Kumite event. Keep it up

[@esthersmith3056]

the stun values might be a relic of development? like, if some of those buttons were stronger earlier in development, had stun reduced to compensate, and then were later deemed to be too good and nerfed more directly, they might forget to restore stun values? obviously just idle speculation.

[@iamfiefo]

Why'd I get an ad perfectly interrupting when Q crouched through Makoto's grab at 3:12? That's just disgusting!

[@clawofthefallen]

I play videogames since the late 80's. And I love watching these videos of fighting game mechanics deep lore. It's cool to know there's this extremely deep world that I will NEVER understand. Never had in over 30 years, never will for the rest of my life.

[@harryvpn1462]

6:32 It synced perfectly with the music

[@VinMann]

Im not even a fighting game enthusiast but man i enjoy listen your commentary

[@KumaTorey]

Hugo Vs Gil: “Puny God”

[@fribble4030]

There's a really interesting oddity with the first street fighter: .The entire game

[@dado10ca]

3:10 Kuroda's Q is a pleasure to watch

[@jaykelley103]

Yeah kuroda is a badass

[@Apalapan97]

holy shit i love this video so much. Now, onto actually watching the video.

[@thereallifesaiyan]

I have an oddity from Street Fighter V: The entirety of F.A.N.G

[@logandunlap9156]

that character doesn’t exist, what the fuck are you talking about

[@deadpoolXYZ]

Sean can destroy projectiles with his cr.lp in New Generation.

[@DonShotta24]

What?!

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

Thanks for joining for the collab, Heather!

[@thatguy8841]

Account no longer exists

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

@@thatguy8841 huh?

[@freelanceryuu]

@@user-wl2xl5hm7kthe account doesn’t exist. she’s changed her name.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

@@freelanceryuu ah ok

[@thegoose8663]

1:15 Only character i can think of is - MkX Tremor, he has a special in the air that hits low. You can use it raw or immediately after overhead in the air.

[@fgcneko2850]

Yess finally much love always look forward to your uploads keep it up ❤

[@wolfcaliburRX]

Love how Ken kicks Adon in time with the music at 6:33

[@macdoninri]

the music timing at 6:32 was perfect lol

[@Metahodos]

Airdashers have the land into a low vs late airdash into an overhead mix, so the Honda schmix is not really that unprecedented (but probably is the funniest)

[@respectfulremastersbymetal8336]

Friendly suggestion for Heather from someone who does a lot of voiceover work - please speak slower. I'm having trouble understanding and following you because all of your words are running together. If you slowed down a bit, you'd be fine. Thanks for the great video you two!

[@garageink74]

(Reverb on) yeah, I was waiting for this.

[@kaneda010]

Frew a fro is one of my favourite hairstyles.

[@BainesMkII]

While it can be hard to find decent stun value data online for the games, it looks like SFA1 also has some moves that deal only 1 stun; at least some of those strange SFA2 stun values may have been inherited from SFA1? My personal guess is that while they had "standard" values for each strength of normal attack, Capcom instead used "1" as its most generic default and simply never bothered to "fix" some of those "1 stun" moves to a more appropriate values.

[@kaceejones2282]

Then SFA3 must have the same amount of stun value as SFA2 or more

[@Yesnog05]

I wish I knew this back then to prevent countless hours of getting my butt kicked by my brothers

[@TheLastOutlaw-KTS]

So That’s what Kuroda was doing all along?? A throw invincible standing animation lmao 3:09

[@set1237]

Ken's eyebrows confirm that he dyes his hair.

[@skaven969]

About the stun meter in alpha 3, sounded like the developers wanted moves to mathematically have a lower distribution on moves that had short range or linked. Just an observation, all the examples listed at that part shared the commonality they had very short reach, which, in physics, would imply less momentum and less concussive force, depending on the move and character, less power as well.

[@HoneyMike]

Heather's Twitter link is incorrect?

[@yobbiden]

this is that video everyone will watch at least 8 times because I will.

[@MrBroken030]

9:08 Ahh yeah i remember the 3s Ibuki infinite on Gill that looped her taunt on the ressurecting GIll :D

[@nebiyuesayas5600]

Damn, Ibuki's Hashinsho was just Chun's Hoyokusen before Chun was added in 3S, wasn't it

[@ExtremeAcer]

What's the game shown in 0:00?

[@blackhoggaming]

6:32 that sync with the music

[@ethangamer1600]

wake up babe new theory fighter video

[@Eggroll3s]

That version of WW Honda is the predecessor to MKX Tremor. Fighting game devs are stuck in a time loop 😔

[@Poet482]

6:29 Was this intentional? With the perfectly syncing music

[@Gonzakoable]

The stun value ones just look like oversights

[@danielbakergill]

Good content, drags a bit at the end

[@SolidSonicTH]

Two videos released on the same day that talk about Q's while standing quirk, what a weird coincidence.

[@dontever]

AYO HEATHER THE GOAT

[@Steambull1]

He says "Alpha Three" but shows Alpha 2. So, is it all the same in both?

[@PrimevalDemon]

Yeaaaaa new gen ibuki rep! My favorite Street Fighter!

[@sabbathjackal]

id bet the stun values has less to do with game design and more to do with character impressions by the viewer or character personalities intended by the developer

[@cgob]

bongripper in the background, what's next; bongzilla, greenleaf or leaf blower?

[@JoLiKMC]

4:37 - … what version of _Street Fighter Alpha 2_ were _you_ playing? Because… in the "960229 (Euro)" revision (the "SFA2" one), Ryu's Jump HP does *8 Hit Stun* against Ken. Your spreadsheet even _says_ his Jump HP does 8 Hit Stun. So, how'd you manage to get it to do _1_ Hit Stun? *Final Edit:* Oh, I see. You specifically meant his Jump-*In* HP and not his Jump-*ing* (straight up) HP. Man, that's wacky. Incidentally, your "normal moves" spreadsheet is missing data. For example, Ryu's Standing MK does two hits (4 + 2 Stun) while his _Forward_ MK does one hit (6 Stun). Just sayin'~

[@DragoonCenten]

I thought everyone knew about the crouch thing with Q. It's an integral part of his game plan.

[@sonimatic]

TIL Chun has an air throw in 3rd strike.

[@gowiththeflow363]

What's that fighting game at the very start of the video??? 0:00?

[@zensuufu]

Matrimelee. (part of the Power Instinct series)

[@Nishimiya_Bojji]

Suscribed! I expect more oddities!

Heather's Twitter is gone?

[@neobogard]

This is the problem with Pros. I challenge them to make a list of fighters that aren't broken.

[@SMAXZO]

Granted, I wish they kept the backgrounds from New Generation. And Sean's Uppercut Smash thing..

[@shumpiremadness2372]

Q. Slow, like really slow, but if his attacks connect, it hurts like fuck. Taunt 3 times and he's damn near invincible.

[@davis1228]

Yeah...I value consistency and readability. A well-designed game with little-to-no exploits (especially not meta-defining ones) and emphasis on player interactions as well as decision making. There should be a mechanical reason for why everything happend, and those reasons should be able to be figured out through logic and reasoning rather than having to study in order to learn the properties of something that is counterintuitive to the animation/visuals (like the jumping attack that's a low). That's why I like Virtua Fighter more than Tekken. You can figure things out by what you see on-screen. Good thing about modern fighters can be patched.

[@no64256]

Could you add captions please? The audio balancing has some problems and it makes some things hard to under

[@Gaozetagar]

I'm deaf as well and I second this

[@Toomnyusernae]

Why does Sean's crouch mp destroy hadoukens in New Generation.

[@swanphil]

Unexpected Bongripper

[@keylimecookies]

The throw can cause a hard knockdown if the throw stubs :)

[@FhargaZ]

6:36 all that info is from an external software or fron a version of the game?

[@Cardboxx]

You can use Lua scripts' for emulator to get this kind of things (hitboxes/frame data/input history and training mode) For exemple with third strike, the best one is probably Grouflon's training mode

[@joegahan7055]

A good way to piss off other players when fighting

[@Had0k3n2X]

Wow! Im actually about to release a video like this specifically for ST!

[@Hoopryfien]

Videos like this are some of my favorite kinds found on KZbin

[@RagingRowen]

Where do I find the SFA2 Hitbox Data thing?

[@craaaash]

Why did you made it 30(or lower)fps? And fake scanline looks bad too.

[@rgg1009]

I'm surprised someone actually remembers Second Impact. That game is really an underrated gem. Great music, great characters... and really weird oddities. Thank you for the video.

[@StrigWilson]

Underrated channel! You got my sub instantly

[@duo317]

CT Arakune had jumping lows too. And you didn't have to neutral jump