Stretch and Folds During Bulk Fermentation

My second, and final, set of stretch and folds for this strong dough.
The recipe for the dough in this video is here:
www.theperfectloaf.com/simple...
For more techniques, guides, and recipes visit www.theperfectloaf.com.

[@robbraid4181]

Your videos are so helpful. This helps me realize how I can improve my S&F. Thank you!

[@paigesowell8651]

Very solid video! Straight and to the point, exactly what I was after!

[@theperfectloaf]

Glad it helped!

[@Xamothth]

That is really not what I was doing ... Glad you showed me the correct way ! Explains a lot...

[@stephaniegray5141]

Thank you for a video that is directly to the point! Perfect!

[@linybob]

This was a very useful video. Thanks!

[@MarkAmanda]

HI there - I've been using this quarantine time to learn to make sourdough bread and have been following your recipes. I'm currently making my second batch of your Beginner Sourdough bread and am finding that the dough seems to be a great deal stickier/tackier then what it looks like in your video. The dough temp is a bit low (75.5 F) and I used King Arthur flour instead (the bulk of it white and the smaller % whole wheat). Is there a common mistake that is making it hard for me to handle the dough and therefore use this technique?

[@theperfectloaf]

Hey there! If the dough is overly sticky by the time you go to preshape and shape it's likely either a little too much water in the dough, and in a related way, not strong enough. I'm not going to say the dough isn't sticky, though, because it pretty much always is -- your confidence will improve the more you work with sticky dough and your hands seem to improve in handling it with quick motions. But I'd recommend you try to reduce the water in the recipe just a bit, maybe just 2-5%, and give it another set or two of stretch and folds during bulk fermentation. The reduced water and added folds will give it more strength and should help the dough hold its shape more. Additionally, since your temperatures are a little cool, you might want to give the dough a little more time in bulk fermentation -- just be sure it rises up nice and high, smooths out, and it should feel more and more elastic (stronger) when you tug on it. I hope that helps!

[@christianRafaelCasti]

Thank you! I'm going to subsribe.

[@theperfectloaf]

Thank you, Christian 🙂

[@nikobe123]

Thanks for the Video and the great receipes! One question: in some of your receipes you speak of turns during bulk fermebtation - is that the same as the strecth and fold you show here? if not can you explain or show what you mean by turns? thank you!

[@theperfectloaf]

Yes, when I say "turns" I mean stretch and folds like shown here. Each turn set is one set of stretch and folds (typically four in a set). I've moved away from that terminology these days to keep consistent!

[@toby-nq9di]

Omg i was punching it and everything 😭 im gonna try this way this time

[@imprezivr61]

Can you use a starter that's over ripe to build a levain or is the goal to catch the starter as it's just beginning to fall to build a levain? I'm struggling with the timing of things 😩

[@theperfectloaf]

You certainly can, but be aware if it's very ripe it may increase fermentation activity through the rest of the process (which isn't bad, just something to be aware of). That said, I wouldn't use my starter if it's extremely overripe: super sour-smelling, thin, very broken down, etc..

[@Rhaya_artist]

Hi! During these times I’ve decided to make sourdough bread. My mature rye and ap flour starter was fed and passed the float test. I’ve then added flour and water in a bowl and let it autolyse for 1 hr in the oven with the ligh opened. I’d say there were 22.5 -23 degrees. Everything was fine. I took it out, added salt and the starter, mixed and let it rest for 30 more minutes.Then, I started the stretch and fold method for 2 hrs, every 30 minutes. The dough was elastic and super manageable. After that I let it sit for 2hr at that temperature to bulk ferment. 30 minutes before the 2hr mark my dough looked ready but my lack of experience said I should wait 30 more minutes. I think that was my mistake. When I took it out of the bowl, it was impossible to pre shape. Keep in mind, I don’t have a bench scraper yet. I just ordered one scraper and one Banneton for next time I bake. My dough was bubbly ( I searched photos of fermeted doughs online) 30 minutes before the bulk fermentation was supposed to be over. It was 12:30 and I finished the strech and folds at 11. Could I have over fermented it? These are the ratios: 200 AP flour 100 rye flour 150 whole wheat 50 einkorn 10 gr salt 85 gr mixed seeds 100 gr starter 360 gr water 72% hydration Please help me figure out what the problem was, I am so dissapointed:(

[@theperfectloaf]

It's hard to say if it was over fermented at that point. I would have continued with the dough and baked it, chances are it would have been just fine! Generally, I like to bulk ferment for 3-4 hours or so at around 24C, but it does depend on the recipe and the dough itself.

[@Rhaya_artist]

The Perfect Loaf I baked it and it didn’t rise...

[@theperfectloaf]

@@Rhaya_artist If you didn't get any rise at all then it might have over proofed. Try to keep your bulk fermentation step around 3.5-4 hours at those temperatures and then proof overnight in the fridge for about 12 hours. This will get you on the right track!

[@BRADSZ99]

Overfermentation is definitely possible but 4 hrs is a pretty standard bulk ferment length. I think in your case I’d be more concerned about gluten content, hydration, and autolyse time. Rye flour has a different gluten/protein structure that breaks down faster in water. In general, I avoid any autolyse phase with breads higher than 10% rye. You can autolyse and then mix the rye in before bulk ferment, but I’ve had mixed results with that. Einkorn can also be hard to work with and has a low protein content. And likewise, AP has low protein. Your wheat blend may balance it out and make 72% appropriate, but given your experience, that doesn’t appear to be the case. Try using a bread flour instead, and perhaps leaving rye out of the blend altogether. Then you might play with hydration levels. There is a nice video you should look out for by a KZbin account, called, I think, “Bread Code”, that demonstrates how to experiment with hydration levels depending on your gluten percentages.

[@Momshelper47]

Please clarify how many stretch and folds to do each 30 min interval of Bulk Ferm for soudough bread. I've been doing 4 sets (12 stretch & folds) per 30 min interval, rather than only one set (4 stretch and folds). The results have been pretty great actually, as I really enjoy a tighter crumb for spreading butter and bread dipping with EVOO. But realizing I've likely misinterpreted the S&F directions! Also, does it matter how much water is used during S&F's because the dough seems to enjoy the extra hydration, especially with the additional stretch and folds I was doing! lol! Thank you in advance!

[@theperfectloaf]

It depends on the recipe, each one will be different. For me and the bread you'll see here and at The Perfect Loaf, it's usually 2 to 3 sets spaced at 30 minutes.

[@Momshelper47]

Perfect! Thanks, that helps a lot to know!

[@meisievannancy]

When do you do slap and fold and when do you do stretch and fold in a time line ?

[@theperfectloaf]

I do both, usually. I write about it, here: www.theperfectloaf.com/how-to-stretch-and-fold-sourdough-bread-dough/

[@meisievannancy]

​@@theperfectloaf Thanks. I wiil read it

[@RhondaDrake-uv5pm]

Do you have to take the temperature of your dough and if so how do you do this?

[@theperfectloaf]

It's not mandatory, but I find it really helps ensure consistent fermentation in the dough. You can simply use an instant read thermometer, stick it into the dough and take the temp. More info, here: www.theperfectloaf.com/the-importance-of-dough-temperature-in-baking/

[@kayleeoverton5250]

My dough always seems to be tighter and doesn't stretch well. What am I doing wrong?

[@theperfectloaf]

You might want to try adding more water to the dough if it's overly elastic (tight). Once it feels tight like that, you don't need to do any more stretches and folds.

[@debsholly5183]

Try measuring your flour in grams. It sounds like your dough is too dry.

[@luntasaenroo7518]

How many time ?

[@theperfectloaf]

I do 4 per set.

[@SteviePyle]

My dough is so much wetter than that. I weigh everything carefully every time, too.

[@theperfectloaf]

You are probably weighing correctly but your flour just isn't able to handle as much water-and that's okay! Hold back more water during mixing and leave it out. That'll give you a stronger and more elastic dough.

[@SteviePyle]

I held back just 50 grams and my dough is so different this time. I’m hoping for a better bulk rise and drier crumb this time. Thanks so much for the advice!

[@theperfectloaf]

@@SteviePyle excellent. Let me know how it turns out. And going forward, always be sensitive to this and ready to adjust hydration as needed! Have fun 🙂

[@SteviePyle]

@@theperfectloaf I baked early this week, being so excited to try your suggestion. My loaf was definitely dryer and rounder. I still believe it was a bit under or over proved as the crumb wasn't as open. Also, my crust was very tough and I think that was due to too much flour and when I spritzed in before putting it in the oven maybe the flour and water created a tougher crust. I've been reading so much about baker's percentages so I really need "permission" to reduce the water. Thanks for that!

[@theperfectloaf]

@@SteviePyle you're very welcome. All of this is always a work in progress, even for me. Keep at it!