There's lots of confusion around about strut bars and sway bars. Basically, strut bars do almost nothing... but sway bars can transform a car's handling balance. www.amazon.com/Vehicle-Ride-H... or Amazon in your country.
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@getahanddown9 күн бұрын
I disagree the book is expensive. A single pointless modification costs more and even one hour of diagnostic time at a workshop is twice the price. Julian is a rare case of someone actually breaking down methods for testing and changing your car. Very satisfying for proper car enthusiasts to have a hand in setting up their own car and getting a great outcome via DIY accessable changes
@DBravo29er9 күн бұрын
I view strut bars as, generally, gilding the lily. BUT, I still use them. The biggest benefit they have shown to me is the reduction of creaks and rattles as a car ages. My youngest car has 130k miles and is SILENT over bumps with the factory suspension. However, I can also confirm that sway bars are a vastly more effective way to tune a vehicle's handling.
@VolumetrikHD9 күн бұрын
The strut bar quieted down almost entirely the dash rattles and creaks on my Fiesta ST that were driving me crazy. It was worth it for me just for that.
@getahanddown9 күн бұрын
I use them in some of my cars but they are all 30+ year old sh!tboxes with no crumple zones even. Less than a ton of car doing not much for safety or chassis flex :0
@michaelblacktree9 күн бұрын
For most people, strut bars are just for looks. And admittedly, they do look cool.
@johndb12249 күн бұрын
A strut bar on a 1960's or 70's car has a much bigger effect compared with any car made since 90's.
@288gto79 күн бұрын
60s fords had em from factory to support the top mounted strut of mcpherson together with the garbage unibody frame. Mustangs, taunus p5 and p7 models etc
@jsquared10139 күн бұрын
I would add that a strut bar is going to be most effective on a car with MacPherson strut suspenion that has strut towers which aren't well braced or triangulated from the factory. On something double-wishbone or multi-link, where the strut mount is not a pivot point for the geometry, then it's basically no different than any other chassis brace. And Mr. Edgar is right that most modern cars from the last decade or two won't show much effect in general, as manufacturers have gotten much better about gusseting or triangulating the shock towers in their chassis designs (or have bracing already in place from the factory as in the BMW M3/M4)
@grantleyhughes9 күн бұрын
I replaced the sway bar end links with a much stiffer version. That's a forgotten area. The factory ones can be very soft. Strut bars were great in things like my old Capri convertible, but the Focus I track is incredibly stiff in the shell. I gained so much from camber and castor setup and coilovers that the factory sway bars worked very well.
@Rusty_399 күн бұрын
finally someone said it
@Rusty_399 күн бұрын
people just adding weight for no reason
@kevinbarry719 күн бұрын
In my experience, strut braces are put on a car just after you put on the stickers that increase horsepower
@nathanm54159 күн бұрын
I think for old cars whose chassis feels like a wet spaguetti strut bars do help But modern cars, not so much
@carlcoolamon71469 күн бұрын
You have a strut bar, cuz' no one is going to crawl under the car to see the real suspension work.
@WarriorOfEden30337 күн бұрын
Sleeper
@briangriffith39859 күн бұрын
i think strut bars are more beneficial on older cars 90's or older. the newer cars have much stiffer chassis
@Axman68 күн бұрын
I’m starting to think Julian and this book were funded by Big Swaybar 😁
@JulianEdgar8 күн бұрын
I know you’re joking but it’s not about big sway bars: it’s about front/rear roll stiffness ratio.
@frederickcook879 күн бұрын
Can’t speak for anyone else’s car but my Porsche 997 came from factory with a weird front strut bar setup. The general consensus is no other bracing is needed, but on the 997 cup car Porsche installed a Motorsports strut bar so there goes that. On my car I went with front and rear additional strut bars, elephant race front frunk bracing, and a brey Krause harness bar that stiffened up the rear of the chassis. Not saying these parts made the car handle night/day different but they did firm up the chassis which allowed my larger rear sway bar, coilovers, solid subframe mounts, and full rose jointed suspension to do its job. I agree that sway bars are much more effective at tuning your handling but less face it, if your chassis is twisting and bending all over the place it’s still gonna feel sloppy and unpredictable. Side Note: my 997 is my 4th car…. It’s not a daily, it has no AC or radio, it’s just a fun build that I like to tool around with
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
What you are describing is literally nothing like a typical aftermarket strut bar.
@HardstylePete6 күн бұрын
My brain keeps telling me I shouldn't upgrade the daily driver but I see so much potential 😂
@JulianEdgar5 күн бұрын
I go by the philosophy: modify the car you drive the most.
@MrWilliam.Stewart9 күн бұрын
Strut bars serve a visual purpose, in that one youth can pop the bonnet and show off their brightly painted strut brace to the other youths, think a peacock showing off its feathers. 🤣
@HardstylePete6 күн бұрын
The chassis on my r31 skyline was so flimsy I cracked the windscreen jacking the car up from the front driver's side. Talk about flex.
@JulianEdgar6 күн бұрын
Yes, car stiffness has changed radically in 40 years.
@Socsom2 күн бұрын
Strut bars purposes is to stiffen the chassis. It does make a difference, i used to drive a honda civic 1990 hatchback and i installed one, i dont remember the brand but it was black and yellow and solid metal. The car steering was more responsive and stable.
@JulianEdgar2 күн бұрын
Yes, did you watch the video? In it I say that strut bars can be effective on old cars. (A 1990 car was designed more than 35 years ago.)
@joshe24208 күн бұрын
On fiat 128's the strut bars are used to stiffen up the front and to stop the strut towers twisting outwards from power modifications, since they came with 55-73hp and the stock engine is quite easy to get to 100+hp (nearly doubling the hp and many times tripling) it's easy to make the strut towers bend also it's safe to say that in the balkans they were made under the "zastava" factory, which never used metal meant for cars, and basically on all of them you can bend the roof from the outside inwards with just a little press from your hand, which should put into perspective how much of a job the strut brace makes here Edit: I can film/upload a video of the roof bending on my channel tomorrow if you don't believe it
@JulianEdgar8 күн бұрын
The Fiat 128's basic design is over half a century old. Just look at crash testing performance to get an indication of the change in vehicle design strength over that period.
@piedpiper11728 күн бұрын
I’m sorry, but this is the first time one of your videos is obviously wrong. Upper front strut bars are visible when the hood is open. All anti-roll bars are hidden under the car, and no one will know how awesome my powder coating color choice is unless I have the matching front strut bar. Knowing your car looks heckin sick is a 10/10 handling and driving experience improvement. This is why a front strut bar is a stellar upgrade on literally all cars.
@peted36379 күн бұрын
Got to say, when I first added a dead straight strut bar on a Datsun 1600, I wasn't impressed. Then I took a difficult tight corner that dipped and then rose upwards, and I couldn't believe the difference. But that is a 1969 Datto that was no doubt flexy as all giddy up! Later on I added a rear sway to it and difference was dramatic, as you say.
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Yes, I’d expect a 55 year old design to be fairly flexible in the body.
@peted36379 күн бұрын
@@JulianEdgar Hi Julian. One of the problems that I see with a lot of strut braces is that they are not straight rods. The bar that I had on my S13 Silvia years ago looked pretty but was obviously compromised by the fact that it had two bends in it where the bar dipped down to the strut tops. Dubious about its rigidity, I tested in compression outside of the car and was able to make it bend. I doubt that it offered anything other than 5 ghost horsepower.
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Yes that is a point I make about strut bars in the book.
@retoyer9 күн бұрын
Hi excellent informative video👍Do you think strut bars on fwd cars make understeer worse due to stiffening the front? Thanks for posting. Have a great day.
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
I think they do so little that any change to understeer would be inconsequential.
@retoyer9 күн бұрын
@@JulianEdgarThanks, I agree.
@tonyd71649 күн бұрын
I have a 90's Honda civic hatchback I am slowly prepping for track days and have replaced all the suspension parts with new/fresh/upgraded parts, as well as upgraded the brakes front and rear. I noticed that the "type R" versions of the integra and civics like mine came with strut bars from the factory. Wondering your opinion on those "factory installed" parts? I would assume since those models had slightly stiffer springs and anti roll bars, it might cause some chassis distortion when pushed hard. Was shopping for one when I came across this video, so perfect timing. Honda at the time found value in it. Maybe in the case of these models it was warranted, or perhaps shinny bits to validate the extra cost?
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Typically on the highest performing cars, the added factory strut bars do make a small difference. If you can get those parts without spending a lot, they may be worth it.
@noname-gp6hk8 күн бұрын
Not all factory parts are fitted for performance or functionality purposes. The purpose of the car is to be sold, so anything the manufacturer can add to increase likelihood of a sale will go on. Some parts simply get added as part of the overall marketing package.
@OldSkoolUncleChris9 күн бұрын
Hi, thank you. Could you do a video on cars without sway bars like some Mercedes or McLaren?
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
I won't be doing a video on it, but active systems are covered in the book.
@OldSkoolUncleChris9 күн бұрын
@@JulianEdgarcheers
@OldSkoolUncleChris9 күн бұрын
I haven’t read your book, but surely it’s the obviously superior approach?
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
The chapter covers the pluses and minuses.
@dukinse519812 сағат бұрын
Julian what are your thoughts about wheel spacers? Are they worth it?
@JulianEdgar10 сағат бұрын
I don't like wheel spacers: they change scrub radius and bearing loads.
@michesbianan9 күн бұрын
hi @Julian Edgar, will a sedan (corolla) with torsion beam rear suspension benefit with a rear sway bar ? I just feel the car wobbles/rolls annoyingly. I just want a more planted driving feel without sacrificing comfort. Or it's a lost cause with torsion beams?
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Wobbles and rolls sounds more like soft dampers (shocks). Any car suspension can use altered / added sway bars.
@michesbianan9 күн бұрын
Thank you for your insights Julian.
@tcarter64628 күн бұрын
Would love to see you do a video speaking about torsion beam. Lots of cars have them, even sporty cars, but they get such a bad reputation by 'enthusiasts'. My car also has torsion beam rear, but plow oversteer.
@KK-ygh9 күн бұрын
🎉🎉🎉
@ellisjackson3369 күн бұрын
Maybe if there was a front and rear strut bar, along with a diagonal bar that tied front left to rear right or Vice versa
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Yes, called a roll cage!
@ellisjackson3369 күн бұрын
@@JulianEdgar basically lol. I remember reading a short article years ago saying that a NASCAR team did testing on the effectiveness of strut bars by testing them on a chassis twisting machine. And they did nothing
@jsquared10139 күн бұрын
@@ellisjackson336 citation needed. NASCAR cars are tube frame, and they don't have strut towers at all, so there is no way for a NASCAR team to "test a strut bar" because they don't have strut towers to connect them to and they're already tube frame.
@drazenbudis78817 күн бұрын
@@jsquared1013 Maybe it was a nascar team doing the test, on something that wasnt a nascar stock car
@shanebailey91287 күн бұрын
I’ve Never heard of a “Sway bars” just Anti Sway bars! But He’s the “Expert”🧐
@JulianEdgar7 күн бұрын
In most countries they are known simply as sway bars. In my book I primarily use the term anti-roll bars.
@vollcare40769 күн бұрын
Yes sway bars make a much more difference: But Stiffer sway bars do also reduce the comfort of the car which strut bars don’t do
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Strut bars don't reduce ride comfort because they're doing nothing... And softening a sway bar actually improves ride comfort - there's not a requirement to always go stiffer.
@vollcare40769 күн бұрын
@@JulianEdgarat least you can make the handling a bit better (even it’s just a bit) with additional strut bar without loosing comfort of the car. Where a stiffer sway bar (for better handling) will always reduce the comfort, right ?
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Why do you keep implying that changing sway bars is always about going stiffer? On my current car (that was very stiff in roll as standard) I softened the front bar. It is about the front/rear stiffness *ratio*, not the absolute stiffness. And strut bars do basically nothing for handling, and therefore have no effect on ride. (An infinitely stiff car would have a worse ride quality than one where the body acts as an additional spring.)
@vollcare40769 күн бұрын
@@JulianEdgar I was referring to tuning to make a car handle better, more precise, more sharp sporty fealing: That is probably the intention of 95% of people who modify their cars. I never heard that somebody removed a strut bar or put a more soft strut bar in the car to make the car more comfy
@JulianEdgar9 күн бұрын
Well, you'd better read the book! Depending on the car you're starting with, a softer sway bar can improve handling balance, turn-in response and ride quality. Strut bars are basically irrelevant to ride and handling, they do so little.