XM177E2 - Saigon Report Ep. 04

Originally classified by Colt as a “submachine gun”, the XM177E2 is a lighter, more compact version of the M-16 rifle family. Known as the CAR-15 on the civilian market, the XM177E2 used the same upper and lower receivers as its brethren but included a retractable stock and shorter barrel with a distinctive flash-hider.
The XM177E2, despite being labeled as a submachine gun, was chambered in 5.56x45mm NATO and used the same magazines as all AR-15 and M-16 rifles. A 3 position selector lever was used with a full-automatic feature.
As it was more compact and lighter than the standard rifle, the XM177E2 saw considerable use amongst the Special Operations units in Vietnam as they were already carrying a lot of weight in weapons and communications gear.
Like the M-161A, sight adjustments were made for elevation at the front and windage at the rear. Unlike the XM16E1, the lower receiver was “fenced” to reduce the chances of the magazine release button being accidentally pushed. The forend was redesigned for this carbine length gun. There is a standard sling loop upfront and the retractable stock has slots to attach a sling to the rear.
Regarding manufacturer's specifications, the barrel is 12.7 inches and the AXM177 flash-hider adds a few more inches to the profile. Rifling is a 1-12 twist. Empty weight is only 5 pounds, 11 ounces. The retractable stock has 2 positions; open and closed. The overall length with the stock closed is 29.7 inches and 33 inches with it open. The diameter of the flash-hider does not allow the use of a bayonet, so the lug is left off of this gun. The bolt and bolt carrier are Mil-spec phosphate. All aluminum parts are gray anodized and the pistol grip, forend, and stock are black polymer.
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[@tonydeaton1967]

Barnes and Elias were actually carrying Colt CAR15's with longer barrels which were never used in Vietnam.

[@timmmax]

Yup, they were Colt Model 653P carbines with 14.5" barrels and round forward assist. My favorite Hollywood Darwin award is when you hear a Glock being cocked like a revolver sound. Doh!

[@echohunter4199]

Absolutely correct sir.

[@Caje-zf8md]

Sergeants' Elias and Barnes both carried Colt 653's which had 14.5-inch barrels and standard birdcage flash suppressors. The 653 wasn't introduced until the mid-70's and is sometimes referred to as "the mother of the M4". The prop master was definitely "catching Z's" on this one.

[@T_D_B_]

great catch!

[@Rudyelf1]

Prop master had to make do with what was “issued” to him.

[@georgewashington6225]

They used colt 653s in platoon...

[@rzr2ffe325]

Yeah I thought it looked weird without the moderator

[@emmanuelperez8094]

it's the 653P because that was used by the Philippine Armed Forces during the filming the Film crew were given all military equipment from the Philippine Armed Forces and it was filmed After the Edsa People Power Revolution go check out the Documentary By Martin Sheen in which he is the one Narrating the Documentary.

[@sparkyatlarge]

@@RideOnTimePH They could have been 723s. The only difference is the twist rate of the barrel, and a plastic stock rather than vinyl acetate covered aluminum. I think you are right though - likely 653s.

[@ReconstructedYankee1882]

Sgt. Elias: BARNES BARNES WHAT THE HELL YOU DOING

[@yunikostyo3404]

Im reality

[@erich.2550]

This ain't yer show Elias !

[@tacticalhyvecadre1049]

The XM177e1 and the colt 607 pre date this 3rd gen car 15. Platoon used post war 14.5” barrels.

[@brucecamparmament3728]

The first ever retractile stock on a Colt rifle was the Model 607, which pre-dated the Xm177. I dont think there was any "polymer" used on the XM177E2, the furniture was composite, and the stock was aluminum (this is something Brownells got wrong on their clone). That muzzle device (moderator) was introduced on the E1

[@T_D_B_]

polymer... composite.... who cares?

[@brucecamparmament3728]

@@T_D_B_ there's a huge difference. Polymer is a material that is a derivative of plastics. Composite is two or more materials when added together are stronger then the individual materials themselves. They are not synonymous.

[@gewamser]

No, they did NOT use the XM177E2 in “Platoon”.....

[@jojojack4975]

Actually that stock was on XM177E1 also, I carried one in 66/67 recon 4Th ID XM177E1 had a 10 “ barrel. The E2 , I have always heard has a 11.5 “ barrel. The reason for the upgrade was because the E1 was too loud and had too much flash. So the longer barrel and new silencer solved those two problems. In my opinion from my combat experience, platoon was a piece of shit movie. Not how my recon platoon operated in the central highlands of Vietnam. West of Pleiku. I arrived in Vietnam 8/6/66 aboard the Gen. Nelson M Walker. Also the XM177E2 was modified to accept a grenade launcher. I don’t recall if you mentioned that.

[@bryanoliver5550]

Hello , Thanks for sharing your knowledge , this is good to know , down this road I`ll investigate more .

[@billtravis100]

Great video! Thanx!

[@tso115]

There's a scene where Ellis is changing a magazine and you can see on the mag well " government use only LEO" stamped on it

[@justinmcvay9479]

Thought they were originally 10.5" then 11.5" inch barrels.

[@trsgringo]

XM177 and XM177E1 had 10.0" XM177E2 had 11.5"

[@stevenkuznar9165]

Not the first collapsible stock, model 607

[@jacklow8590]

In platoon they had colt sp1 carbine.

[@cosmolineandgritsforbreakf3795]

I always thought the same thing except the carbines they had forward assists. A sp1 would be slick side

[@Droodog127]

actually they had Colt 653 issued to the Philippines

[@Dan-di9jd]

From what I remember in the movie they could not get proper prop items because of Philippines laws. So they had to use whatever they could get their hands on.

[@olengagallardo8551]

Capt. Wallace also uses this in Tour of Duty seasn 1,Then Sgt. Anderson in 2 and 3

[@T_D_B_]

no no no... the original was never a 12.7... only the clones!

[@dlm808101]

In the philippines we fondly called that the baby armalite

[@freeholdtacticalmed]

WRONG…MODEL 607 predated the CAR stock and had a 10’ barrel. The XM177E2 had an 11.5” barrel and a 4.5” FH/suppressor. It is an NFA item because it increased back pressure and changed the sound of the rifle to confuse the enemy. The actual FH is an NFA item needing a form 4 and a serial number added. The 12.7” barrel is only to keep the ATF happy.

[@hugogayozzo9568]

EXCELENTE TRABAJO DE BROWNELLS

[@shanek6582]

That’s a beautiful clone! Do you know what the measurement is from the front of the front sight base to the start of the muzzle device? How long is the barrel? Thanks man I’m seeing all kinds of different length xm177 devices and I want one that looks just like yours.

[@TheKrieg45]

Barrel is 12.7 inches and the moderator is 4 inches.

[@LTTUSA]

Anyone know what Buffer would be a good place to start with a carbine stock and the XM177E2 barrel (11.5”) with welded 4.5” Moderator Flash Hider. I’m also running a M16 full length BCG. Worried that the standard carbine 3.oz buffer might be too light.

[@Rudyelf1]

Depends on the gas port. But an h2 should make it a smooth shooter.

[@timmmax]

The real XM177E2 had a 11.5" barrel with a moderator attached. The clone you have in this video is 12.7" with a pinned and welded faux moderator to avoid the NFA tax stamp for an SBR.

[@fongxiong1929]

That explains why in Rising Storm 2 it didn't have a bayonet.

[@jimd1968]

My buddy bought a Eagle Arms CAR15 that looks like this firearm but had a non collapse butt, he purchased it in the 90s and it was used. I think it had a baronet lug on it as well. Was Colt the company that came out with this or Armalite?

[@mrhellotherehowareu1384]

How did you get the brownells upper with the bayonet lug shaved off? Or did you do it yourself?

[@brucecamparmament3728]

They come like that now

[@tasjan9190]

Those blued receivers are fukin' gorgeous.

[@raymondyee2008]

Reminds me of the PC game “Vietcong 2” when CPT. Boone later uses the exact gun.

[@brianc1481]

Platoon had a lot of budget issues and they took what they could to the Philippines.. The prop director knew exactly what they had but they made it work with the Colt Sporter Carbine. There isn't much technically wrong with that movie.. The mistakes they made were not due to lack of knowledge. logistics and lack of resources.

[@McClane4Ever.]

Quite a but of bad info in this video. The production value is good but more attention to detail is required.

[@jonathanmarcyan5261]

Agreed. The muzzle device changed the report of the firearm.. that was its primary design

[@richardturk7162]

11.5 inch barrel on the E2 10 inch was the E1 and had reliability issues. Lots of misinformation going on here.

[@QueOndaWhey]

No Spotify? Nice history lesson.

[@TheKrieg45]

Too bad both the M16E1 and XM177E2 clones at Brownells aren't in stock. I have a feeling they'll be discontinued.

[@YugoM92]

It was probably from all of that panic buying, if you look at palmetto state armorys website they're always out of stock.

[@T_D_B_]

why would they discontinue a popular product??

[@Droodog127]

build your own , I had to in nj because brownells didn't offer banned state versions but I built them for less money using their parts LOL

[@mystyle_jm8997]

the existence of the improved gun like M4A1 Carbine?

[@TheKrieg45]

@@T_D_B_ They've recently told me (Brownells) that they're waiting for part in order to build the replicas but it'll take a very long time due to a shit ton of back orders they have. I managed to get a XBRN177E2 recently but I hope they can continue the M16A1 replicas.

[@echohunter4199]

Sorry but it’s painfully obvious the XM-177E2 was not the rifle shown in the movie. But we see what you mean.

[@tabutog]

You look like sgt barnes

[@ivanstrydom9949]

Zeke Andersons gun in tour of duty.

[@blockmongler]

Weren't the carbines used in platoon SP1 carbines?

[@dauntless1967]

The SP-1 from Colt was introduced in 1977, a bit late for Vietnam War

[@chobjinnugeert7309]

The carbines in platoon are Colt 653's, which are pretty much SP1 carbines with M16A1 style recievers (full fence, foward assist) and 14.5 inch barrels

[@dandee2885]

The movie they carry GAU 5 and that's XM 177 E2

[@brucecamparmament3728]

They were not Gau5's, the movie guns had forward assists.

[@ThorntonMeloni]

11.5 Chief not 12.7

[@KalyeStreet10]

I wonder how accurate or reliable that is.

[@dark2023-1lovesoni]

Reliability was the main reason they switched to the 11.5" barrel in the e2 version

[@markd5625]

Actually the Colt 605 was the 1st AR with a retractable stock.

[@austinkeown7263]

Colt 609. I belive you are talking about. Fragile stock , droped real quick in favor for the 629/639 style.

[@brucecamparmament3728]

Incorrect, the 607 was the first with the retractable stock. The 605 had a standard stock.

[@sparkyatlarge]

@@brucecamparmament3728 Correct. The 605 was simply a chopped M16 (typically built on a 604 upper) with the only real mod being a larger gas port to make it run. It was the first CAR-15 carbine but had the same dwell issues the 607 and later 609s had. Also, there is no such thing as a "605 upper." Those uppers, with the forward assist milled off, were simply 604 uppers built to fill contracts by milling off 603 blanks prior to machining. A number of 604s had them also. Very few 605s were built, and one had that upper. When NDS replicated it because it was a cool piece of history, they named it the 605 upper to distinguish it, but trust me, both Mike and Harlan know the real history of the gun. My repro has all original, early 604 parts, including an original chrome BCG and type C stock, but I had a 601 gooseneck flash hider pinned instead because I liked the look better, and they are early parts, replicating a very early concept rifle.

[@gamer-yc6zd]

in platoon they were not using xm177e2 they using post vietnam car 15

[@ThorntonMeloni]

No they weren’t

[@TheMaciel89]

What's a replica?

[@Logisticalstudiesgroup]

It means a modern production of a historic firearm.

[@TheMaciel89]

@@Logisticalstudiesgroup oh can it still shoot?

[@Logisticalstudiesgroup]

@@TheMaciel89 in this case yes, although the word replica is also used describe non-firing display guns too.

[@scottg1911]

Doesn’t even have a clue what a moderator is, what it does, or it’s intended purpose. Then says a line of totally made up bullshit instead 😂 that’s only mentioning one thing wrong in this video

[@whiskeyriver4322]

Bullshit!!! Do you know what a Model 639 is? LOL!!!

[@quietstorm4207]

Trump 2020

[@quietstorm4207]

@Loonytoones85 you need to do research before replying! Obama was a traitor to this country. Trump is a protector

[@mancaveveteran4975]

Loonytoones85 vote Biden then.