How America RUINED the world's screws! (Robertson vs. Phillips)

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[@StumpyNubs]

★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★ M-Power SBS Diamond Sharpening System: A complete system for razor sharp edges in a wonderful, compact carrying case! www.mpower-tools.com/product-category/diamond-sharpening/ *My Table Saw and Bandsaw are AWSOME! Check them out at Harvey Woodworking Machinery:* www.harveywoodworking.com/ *My hand tool collection includes premium tools from Bridge City Tool Works:* bridgecitytools.com/ *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission) *Some other useful links:* -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ -Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE INEXPENSIVE TOOLS★ - #ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save 10%): bit.ly/3BHYdH7 -123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij -Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK -Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv -Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9 -Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK -Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW -Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7 -Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak -Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI -Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3 -Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6 -Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13 -BOW Featherboards: amzn.to/430ldhv (If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)

[@billshorter666]

Have you ever used a Prince Reed screwdriver?

[@nickdisney3D]

you do good work in these videos. subscribed. thanks for not being AI.

[@scottmorris4914]

Please check the link below for the Center Finding rulers, when I click on the link I get a web page cannot be found error. Just FYI.

[@jfawnst]

P

[@larryh.4629]

You do a good job . I too hate the Phillips head but what were my choices as an American a flat head. Uhhh. Then I started buying kits that included square head Robertson about time something that works. Canada ya got it right aye.

[@PaulRSmileyOyen]

We ought to start a rumor that the Torx drive was invented by Peter Tork, who simply wanted users to stop monkeying around.

[@robertpearson8798]

Hey, I’m a believer.

[@cottrelr]

Well, Mike Nesmith's mother did invent liquid paper. So it's not that far fetched.

[@pariahzero]

I'm in the "star drive" for the space age camp. (Ie. Torx by another name)

[@patricknorton5788]

​@pariahzero It's difficult to find dilithium crystals to power the special driver though...

[@RichardTaylor-sq8xg]

🤣🤣🤣

[@ravenovatechnologies6554]

The intentional cam out of Phillips haunts my dreams like an evil villain never could. Anything is better than Phillips. Except slotted.

[@Volvith]

Slot/flathead is better than philips. Philips will be dead one day, needing specialized custom-made tools for old stuff to take apart. You know what will never be dead? _A thin bar._ Flathead has historical compatibility. Philips is just bad.

[@AlanTheBeast100]

Correction: the "accidental" cam out. Retroactively claimed to be a "feature".

[@AlanTheBeast100]

@@Volvith Flathead (slot) is an early evolutionary step that is deservedly near extinct.

[@patricknorton5788]

Hah! Well said.

[@espressomatic]

@@Volvith No one makes slotted screws in the same volume as Philips nor Square (or even Torx) today. So no, slotted isn't going to suddenly come back.

[@Xgamer121X]

All the way back in 2011, when I was just 18 years old, I got my first set of subwoofers for my first car. I made the most common rookie mistake when mounting the subwoofers into the enclosure. When I went to mount the subwoofer into the subwoofer box, the phillips screwdriver slipped off of the screw and punched a hole into my brand new subwoofer. I was very upset. My dad told me about the square head screws. He explained how it was one of his favorites because it wouldn't strip out when building decks. I ended up trying the square head screws on a new set of subwoofers. I was amazed. The fact that I could literally let go of the square head screwdriver and it just stay completely inside the face of the screw without falling off. I will never go back. Square heads (Robinson) are the best!

[@swamprat69er]

And made and invented in Canada.

[@paulgrimmer1233]

Torx are definitely nice, but as a Canadian I can say confidently that if you're using Phillips and you have Robertson as an option, you're certifiably insane!

[@rioriggs3568]

100% long live the Robertson!

[@mikejacobs8718]

Philips are only really widely used in drywalling.

[@64MDW]

I can say confidently that if you're Canadian, you are certifiably insane. How's that Trudeau thing going for ya?

[@wannabecarguy]

There is only 2 things left in the world that haven't been ruined by Canadians.

[@troubledseed]

@@wannabecarguy What? wtf you talking about.

[@haroldtwilson]

I race wooden outboard boats for 30 years in Canada and the USA. At one race in Canada, an American pal flipped and damaged his boat. The racing family got his boat on shore and assessed the damage, quickly determining repairs could be made in time for the next day's program. Out of nowhete came pieces of plywood, angle brackets and, of course, "red Robbie" screws. My pal was busy cutting wood to shape, happily accepting Canadian competitors' help (borders don't matter in the racing family) UNTIL the moment he was provided with a screwdriver and handful of screws. "What in *!*^? are these?", he asked. We assured him they'd do the job and as there were no Phillips or Slots to be had, he reluctantly started to use them. He went from grumbling to glee in the course of a half hour. Boat repaired, he announced he'd hit the local hardware for "some paint and stuff". The local hardware was the Canadian Tire store where he bought a can of aerosol paint... and boxes and boxes of Robertson screws and a handful of yellow, green, red and black Robertson drivers. As far as I know, that weekend in Canada changed his screw selection preferences for the rest of his career.

[@Skobeloff...]

and so are the days of our lives

[@hairpig]

Many of us Americans understand that Robertsons are superior, or at least that Phillips screws are the absolute worst kind of screw ever invented. But Robertsons can't become my screw of choice when none of the stores here have any of them for sale. For me I've just converted to torx, since I can get those and like Robertsons they also don't cam out.

[@keithmills778]

@@hairpig I'm about a week away from retirement. Maybe I'll supplement my pension by smuggling Robertson drivers, screws and bolts into the US.

[@OctarineCode]

Well, screw you ​@@hairpig

[@blechtic]

I have no experience with "Fitzbobs" whatsoever, but I can imagine the next guy cursing him to high hell for using them, because unless they are popular there by then, they'll probably have no equipment to deal with those screws.

[@n4spd396]

I know a carpenter who only uses torx. They are more expensive but the work goes so much faster and never a scratch from misshaps. I wish philips never existed.

[@AndrewDeLong]

In the building of ANY furniture that requires screws, I exclusively use torx head screws. They just work better and faster. Once or twice, I've used Robertson heads. I won't lie, if they were more readily available in my area, I'd probably switch to them.

[@taxicamel]

Far cheaper to use Robertson with principally the same result. There might be a completely different reason for someone to use a torx. .

[@Rancid-Jane]

I find Torx driver bits break easily. They can't take the torque I guess.

[@Troy-McLore]

@@Rancid-Jane thats the point, the tool breaks instead of the fixing

[@Eric-zs6rd]

@@Rancid-Jane If the bit breaks you can just toss it and grab another from the 10 pack you bought for 5 dollars. If the fastener strips you're likely spending 30 minutes trying to find vise grips or a drill and ez out to get it out

[@SIB1963]

"Just like the Egyptians would have done if they had screwdrivers." My favorite line in any recent YT video.

[@Dowlphin]

🎶 Torque Like an Egyptian🎶

[@justcommenting4981]

It was delivered with such authority. With alien tech there was of course no need.

[@fullercrane1795]

@@Dowlphin stop watching little girls cartoons man. Now I know why people need pushed around.

[@DocSprocket]

Tool-wielding Canadian, here. I couldn't imagine the frustration of trying to drive Philips-headed 3" construction screws all day long. You've heard the arguments and I don't need to repeat them. Neat story though- I was visiting friends in the Pensacola FL area maybe 4 years ago, and we found ourselves walking along a boardwalk. I stopped dead to marvel at what I was seeing- the entire boardwalk had been constructed with Robertson screws. I took the opportunity to razz my American host, and even he was surprised.

[@michael_mcgowan]

I'm an American homebuilder, and I freaking hate Philips head screws. If you've got a quality screwdriver (🪛), they're fine, I guess, for little things, but for drills/Impact drivers, absolutely the worst.

[@emerkamp1]

Good for new, clean things going together, but taking apart old, out in the weather can be hit or miss.

[@mikefennema5561]

Canadian here. I love Robertson screws. You can place a screw on the screwdriver and it will stay in place no mater what position. Where ultimate torque is required, I must admit Torx has the advantage.

[@ronblack7870]

you can snap off the head on a robertson screw so i don't think you need more torque handling.

[@tomroome4118]

@@ronblack7870 never happened to me once in over 55 years of using them. Also, after a Philips head strips out, try to remove it!

[@WmRMeyers]

I'm a American and still like the Robertson or Square Head screws. Though Reed and Prince isn't all that bad.

[@John_Redcorn_]

@@ronblack7870you do when dealing with small screws but still need higher holding power of said screw. Torx shines with tiny screws (and yes, better than robertson or allen)

[@sivansharma5027]

​@@ronblack7870 Yeah exactly. Torx is just the name; it does not mean it's the best for torque. I mean think about it, technically the more points something has, the closer it is to a circle. And hint, a circle is the worst geometry for a screw head haha

[@collarandhames]

Weighing in from Canada. As a licensed carpenter, I can say that for the most part, we only use robertson screws. If hardware comes with phillips, we often toss them and swap out the safer screw. They are so much better and safer and even given the upgrade cost on installing random things, it's a time saver.

[@Thrunabulax10]

i switched to torx screws a long time ago. the square drive ones still are prone to stripping out

[@A_Person_You_Dont_Know]

@@Thrunabulax10 Haha and torx don't? Maybe if there werent 20 sizes of torx and we didnt already have robertson but sadly nope.

[@svn5994]

@@Thrunabulax10 Torx is significantly more prone to stripping.

[@yunggolem4687]

@@svn5994 I've driven thousands of unpilot holed 3.5in Torx, including building a 400sqft deck... never seen one strip. Ever. And that was while using an M18 impact on the most aggressive setting which commonly strips or snaps the heads off phillips drywall screws. I have seen 300 series stainless Robbies strip out and I have seen old Robbies driven by someone else which were on the verge of stripping after decades of corrosion, but a few taps with a hammer on the driver seated it deep enough to turn it out. Torque ratings on Torx are about 150% of Robbies or Phillips across the board, so you're either using some incredibly inferior version of Torx/Star, somehow screwing up driving them, or making stuff up. Robbies also have a penchant for sticking on the bit after getting the impact treatment, much more so than Torx or Philips. This can be a feature when using non-ferrous screws to keep them on your bit as you start the drive, but in most applications it's kind of annoying as the Robbie will sometimes steal your bit if your bit holder is getting loose.

[@BritishBeachcomber]

​@@A_Person_You_Dont_KnowTorx is best because only the right size will fit.

[@hgbugalou]

Man... of all youtubers "shilling" things, you are unparalleled in actually coming through with great products made by real people and I have spent so much money on your affiliate links. My wife may come after you. 🤣 I JUST bought a high end contractor table saw for my shop to replace an old cheap Ryobi one that had just lost all its accuracy and the fence was wonky. I would love to have a full cabinet table saw but my "shop" is only a garage space so I don't have a ton of room and have to sometimes move my tools around depending on the project. This product is perfect for me and just what I need to get the most use and accuracy out of my contractor saw. I just bought one of the kits from your link. One of the things I love about your channel is you offer solutions and tips for professional wood workers, prosumer hobbyists like myself, and just occasional weekend warriors. Thank you for this!

[@Transit67F2]

after a 35 year furniture making career, two things stood out as best value...the square drive screw and the blessed millimetre. Never heard of Robertson. Thank god we dumped imperial measurement 55 years ago (NZ)

[@140288albert]

For that reason alone, I like my European car. No fumbling under a car figuring out fractions of an inch

[@pathunter7003]

@@140288albert so you would rather fumble around with millimeters, ok then,,,

[@MinatoNamikaze607]

​@@140288albert metric sucks balls. Imperial all the way 😅

[@TheDuckofDoom.]

Roberston drive is tapered, not a true square, that is what allows it to self align and to stick to the drive-bit without magnets.

[@willdoe7681]

I have been a finish carpenter and cabinetmaker for over 50 years and the first thing we did on a job was throw all the philips screws in the garbage and replace them with Robertson. This is what kept us in business.

[@robotgrass]

Absolutely true

[@malepartd]

I do the same with every wall anchor kit coming with any purchased object: throw away the anchors and Phillips screws, and use my own Robertson screws.

[@eekee6034]

I should start doing this, but with Allen (hex) screws rather than Robertson. I'm British, and 'Allen keys' are more common than anything else except Phillips.

[@jcalpha2717]

You should have collected the Phillips screws and resold them in the USA for a neat little profit.

[@oldmanx1234]

@@jcalpha2717 Don't you dare!

[@Player_00X]

Fun fact, phillips head screws, when stripped, basically become robertson head screws. It's shockingly easy to remove them that way.

[@keithmills778]

I'll often use a Robertson screwdriver on un-cammed out Philips screws/bolts.

[@scottshannon3654]

I've tested this fact many times and while true, it is almost never "fun"

[@Player_00X]

@@scottshannon3654 But it is fun, it means every phillips screw is actually a robertson screw in disguise. Just gotta strip em first.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

"I had a beater" robrtson driver, I would put into my phillip, give it a Bash, and whala ready for another try. Electricians have a version of roberston with wings like a flat screw driver with a roberston diamon in the center, works very well. Do not want slips, tools un controlled, and bashing around in a hot pannel

[@fredk.2001]

#3 Phillips screws also fit #2 Robertson drive tips. Edit for clarity.

[@irolaan292]

About 20 years ago a friend of mine who had a contract with a company located at Platsburg (25 kms from the border) sent wood boxes containing home made dies. He made the "error" to fasten those with Robertson screws. The company returned back the 15 boxes with the mention "can't open the cases". Furtermore, they charged shipping to my friend. Stubborn people! We had a great laugh to see the boxes coming back., but my friend canceled the order as he was so angry.

[@trollking99]

Why didn't they just ask your buddy to ship them Robertson drivers instead of all that rigmarole?!?

[@irolaan292]

@@trollking99 We never understood why they didn't called in or mailed a request for a solution. They simply shipped the boxes back without warning. I'm sure there was some store at Platsburg where they could have find Robertson screwdrivers.

[@trollking99]

@@irolaan292 Perhaps they wanted to prove some useless point. And why not just pry open the boxes? Anyway, your buddy made the right call to cancel their order LOL

[@micron001]

@@trollking99 Because they are pompous asses. Or just plain stupid.

[@sakaraist]

All you need to do is insert a flathead at an angle if you don't have a robertson lmao, even a posidrive jammed in can work. Idk if i'd trust any product from anywhere that couldn't figure out how to remove a screw without the proper bit lol

[@MADxHAWK]

Im an electronic technican and we did a lot of huge scale AC ventilation systems electro assambly and used self cutting sheet metal screws. We quickly went away from phillips heads and replaced them with square head screws. 1. most phillips heads got rounded by the bits, once they were screwed in you wont get them out again. 2. the bits for our cordless screwdrivers went dull all the time and we had to replace them so we start replacing them with square heads and torx and we never had any problems.

[@ShiningDarknes]

"Brought closer to imperfection" as a person working in a shop that 90% of the time uses square drives, yeah that is an accurate way to describe the philips drive.

[@RobertFord-hx5gt]

One area in America, where the Robinson screw has taken over is the decking industry. If you’re trying to drive a 3 inch screw into pressure-treated lumber it’s the only screw head design, strong enough to use with an impact driver. I wish we had these in everything.

[@kurtrogers3928]

Cargo trailers in America are screwed together with Robertson screws..

[@phearns2147]

Travel trailers use a combination, square works best but a large Philips will do too.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Torx beats them both.

[@42Lailoken]

@@chuckschillingvideos I like Torx, but in my experience it's harder (ie slower) to fit into the screw vs Robinson. Also I think Robinson are cheaper

[@Viennery]

Canadian screws better for lumber? There's gotta be a Lumberjack joke in there somewhere...

[@jimmyd486]

Now I know more about screws than I ever wanted to know but I feel enlightened none the less. ☺

[@CADRollHunter]

You failed to mention that in Igloo construction in Canada, we use Robertson screws constructed of hardened ice. Once two blocks of ice are fastened together, the joint is warmed and then rapidly frozen, causing the screw and the blocks to melt and fuse together. We're not concerned about over torking or shearing off the head of the screw in this application, but we desparately want to avoid the stripping that occurs with Phillips head screws and the resultant dangerous ice shards that fly about. Thanks for sharing the supremacy of Canadian screws with your audience and the world.

[@driftwolf]

If you're not using maple syrup (#3 dark of course) as caulking you're building it wrong anyway.

[@dsigetich]

Does that work in July? There’s plenty of ice but the screws don’t freeze quite as solid.

[@CADRollHunter]

@@dsigetich Yup, that's an issue in the summer! 🤣

[@astranger448]

@@CADRollHunter Trick from mechanical assembly (bearings and stuff), I summer use a freezer to pre cool them(liquid nitrogen might overdo it), in winter a deep fryer to pre heat them. Maybe cover in batter first, deep-fried ice cubes are a treat!

[@WoLpH]

European here, I've got several Robertson bits here but I can't say I've ever encountered those screws. Here's my experience: most quality products around here use torx, cheaper stuff uses pozi, cheaper products that are both for European and American markets use philips. Wall boxes for outlets and electrical stuff such as fuse boxes use either flathead or a combination of flathead and pozi or flathead and torx.

[@Papinak2]

Same here, I've never seen Robertson head in my life. But I was surprised that there was no mention of pozidriv. That's been the only choice for woodworking screws until recently.

[@abhibeckert]

This. Torx is vastly superior to Robertson. They're easier to fit to the bit due to having six correct orientations, but the real advantage is the large rounded contact patch allowing much higher torque - some torx heads are rated at 2,000 nm - the #4 Robertson head is rated for just 8 nm! It's not even close... and while you wouldn't need that much strength in a wood screw, having so much headroom translates to a driver bit that literally never wears out. I've never replaced a torx bit in my life, other than when they were lost.

[@malimbar2]

@@abhibeckert If torx sizing made any sense, and if they weren't specifically designed to require you to buy more tools all the time, then MAYBE. But torx are arbitrary sizes, arbitrary in number of points, and randomly have security holes in the middle that are intentionally designed to screw with you. I have never taken anything off with torx and thought "oh, this was meant to be user serviceable"

[@Papinak2]

@@malimbar2 Torx is not arbitrary, it's based off inbus head (metric Allen) - in fact, you can use Torx to loosen rounded inbus head (although it can damage the bit, if too much torque is applied). And how its sizing doesn't make any sense? Higher number=bigger head, it's not any worse than Philips sizing Electronics manufacturers putting safety Torx on everything is another thing, but atleast it's somewhat common compared to tri-wong and other proprietary heads

[@larsord9139]

@@abhibeckert I agree, but please give me a source for torx screws in small sizes (2-56, 4-40, 6-32 with several lengths for each size. Metric m2, m3, m4 would be acceptable). And small (100 or so) quantities. Here in the US it's the same problem with finding a decent source for square, Robertson or internal hex drives screws.

[@Bodi2000]

I worked for a Canadian company installing their large machinery all over the world, crated up with stout lumber and a plywood skin. Using all Robertson screws. Except for one panel, using Phillips. Under that was a toolbox including Robertson screwdrivers and power driver tips.

[@linuxguy1199]

More companies ought to give you the tools to work on your stuff! *said while staring angrily at a box of proprietary tools that I've had to make*

[@Spondre]

Many of the companies I work at have been the same. Then there was the time the new guy put the toolbox in place and no one had told him about the Phillips screws....

[@n3m37h]

Correction, that so called phillips is just a improperly made Robertson, you just need to find the right size robbie for the job, and maybe a hammer to help correct the deformation

[@linuxguy1199]

@@n3m37h Works really good on stainless fasteners!

[@theflyingscotsman9902]

Robertson is 10 times the better socket design for turn fasteners . Phillips is only as good as the very first cut into the screw head , it tapers down to a point to where it can strip easier and easier after use . Face it , some US screw maker won't accept the fact that Robertson is even better than torx , Phillips and possibly a slot screw design .

[@binyamj]

The Robertson kicks ass. I bought some to put some furniture together and I loved them. They are super secure and give a lot of confidence.

[@Blakgun]

I have a good Canadian friend who has been giving me crap about screw heads for... maybe a decade?... anyway, this video is HILARIOUS. I sent it to him. Thank you for this! This is the kind of history that never makes it into the school books. :)

[@WhichDoctor1]

I live in the uk and Ive never in my life seen or heard of a square head screw. The existence of such a thing baffles yet intrigues me

[@slake9727]

They are the best. You should get some Robertsons.

[@postbusters-poundedpostfen717]

I buy Robertson decking screws in tubs of 1500 and use several each season. Thank goodness for Robertson screws and lithium impact drivers.❤

[@lukeorlando4814]

As a Canadian who moved to the U.K. I miss Robertson

[@cofeebeing]

Living in Canada, its the screw of choice. Phillips have the disadvantages mentioned. Robertson by far used here.

[@alaneaston3172]

Common in pocket screws

[@SamPeabody]

I’m an American in a state not too far from Canada. My carpenter brother-in-law loves the square-drive screws. An added benefit he described is that unlike a Phillips, if you start to round over the bit you can just file or grind it back into shape and keep going without heading to the hardware store.

[@goxilo]

That's one of my favorite things about square drive! Plus, not that I've had to do this, is the fact that you can make you own bit *from scratch* if need be, with just a grinder or file. Can't do that to replace your stripped Phillips driver!

[@ColonelSandersLite]

@@goxilo Well, if you have a steady hand, a good eye, and a dremel, you can really make any driver by hand if you need to. I have a long running habit of making oddball screwdrivers out of nails and pieces of scrapwood. I think last time it was a 6 pointed star security driver. I could have ordered a cheap chinesium driver and waited a few days for it to come, but I didn't want to wait. I could have just drilled the screw out but didn't want to risk the damage from flakes of metal getting into sensitive places.

[@christopherwallaceorr6977]

I do this with Torx also. Zing it on the belt sander for 2 seconds while spinning your drill, and back to getting stuff done.

[@ronkierstead]

Tell him to buy the Robertson bits with carbide inserts. They take ages to wear out. TASK makes and sells them in Home Depot Canada.

[@scottkirby5016]

As someone who for quite a while worked with a need to put up and take down my screw fastened work I fell in love with deck screws. Square heads to drive them in (and possibly/often strip them if we were on air powered drivers) and Phillips to back them out after we were done.

[@emossg]

Torx has become an standard here in Europe really quickly. Just 10 years ago as a consumer it was almost impossible to find torx drivers, but now almost every wood screw in any store uses torx and it has become the new norm.

[@espressomatic]

Canadian here. And living about 5 minutes drive away from the old Robertson factory in Milton. I can't stand what passes today for "Robertson" - the problem is that it's about impossible to find a real one. The entire industry is making "square drive" and there's little or no commonality, besides gross dimensions) between different driver and screw manufacturers (enough to fit 0, 1, 2, 3 and #4 sizes). Back in the day, Robertson made both screws and drivers. Today you'll find drivers and bits that don't seat well in screws and cam out easily. Some have no taper, some the corners are too sharp and require a fight to remove from the screw. You'll find screws with shallow square impressions, incorrect taper, no pyramid at the bottom, far too weak to take significant torque from a driver, etc. These problems all manifest to some degree when hand-driving and will drive you off a cliff to insanity when using a power driver such as a drill or impact. It's nearly impossible to power drive a square screw today with any speed without it camming out well before it's fully driven. Many times, again because of the weak screw construction, you'll strip the screw before it's even gone through 3" of fir lumber. Being in the construction/reno trade, I really wish Torx was more widely adopted here in Canada. While you can find them from specialty hardware sellers and in super-premium products at the big box stores, ion every case they're much more expensive than the common robby.

[@dion6481]

The same crappy manufacturing tolerances also happens on Philipps heads. The screwdriver is a #3 but the bit os so "sharp" that it fits on #1 screws. Or the screw hole isn't deep enough and you have to file off the tip of your screwdriver. If you get good quality drivers and screws, you get good fit, no matter the type. Get a bunch of screws and drivers from flea markets you'll have problems. And as a Canadian, I'm proud of that Canadian invention and that's all I'm looking for. And as an electrican, that's all I work with!

[@JoeC92]

And the cheap Chinese shit now days with the screws that aren't a #2 but no where close to a #3. And they strip pretty easy.

[@yl9154]

I remember having such problems when using a drill. Then I bought quality bits from a well know Canadian hand tools supplier and haven't had much problems since. Except for the occasional screw stuck to the bit after removal. In any case, proper bits helped a lot with the other issues.

[@WeCanoe54]

Agree. The problem with all US 'square' drivers is that the drivers are not properly tapered. Order a set of proper Robertson drivers from Canada. You won't be sorry.

[@doonhamer252]

Wasn't there robertson and there was square drive. I think one was a tapered socket the other straight walled socket? Same was for Phillips and Posi-drive.. very often cheap poor quality screws and Hardware was used on the flat pack stuff like the IKEA copy cat..

[@KB-dd9xr]

Put several hundred Robertson head screws in my deck. Drove in like a dream and when I had to dismantle it several years later I didn't have to drill even one of them out!

[@danaross]

Great video. Very informative. Your humor throughout was much appreciated and very witty.

[@Intrafacial86]

As an American, I have regularly had to use a square-head driver on stripped out cross-head screws. I’ve also learned to *_NEVER_* use the cheap pot-metal screws that come with any furnishings. I have twisted the head off of too many screws like that.

[@EricRShelton]

I'm not even gonna watch the video before commenting; based on the title alone I say HERESY!!! I'm a Phillips-loathing American and I hope our Canadian brethren can rescue us from this plight!

[@mattymattffs]

Did you mean Robertson?

[@skatpk9196]

Robertson all the way!

[@DarkTouch]

big fan of the square. the cross sucks.

[@fxm5715]

Amen, brother! As a fellow American, I stand proudly by my workshop hardware bins full of Robertson screws. We Americans may have done a lot of innovative things first, but the rest of the world does a better job of learning from our mistakes and improving upon them, while we stubbornly clutch the old ways as somehow sacred.

[@mrniusi11]

Torx > Roberston

[@thenmathhappens2829]

Robertson drivers have a consistent colour code, which makes it easy to find the right one with a glance. Also, John Candy was the best Chris Farley.

[@spencerjoplin2885]

I can’t find a color-coded Robertson set in US retailers. Everything is instead color-coded according to brand.

[@biffmalibu3733]

@@spencerjoplin2885 harbor freight

[@ad905]

It's so logical its almost.... metric

[@InfernosReaper]

@@ad905 Now, imagine if SAE had decimals instead of janky fractions

[@matthewq4b]

@@InfernosReaper fractions are only janky if you lack the intellect to use them..

[@g.chrisboynton5105]

Thank you. I had no idea. When I was much younger I hated Philips since they strip their heads so easily. I've since learned that a better driver helps, although still not perfect. Then in about 2020 I discovered square drive in "deck" screws. I used them to put up a massive amounts of heavy duty shelving in the garage. What a freaking marvel. I love them. Torx? Meh, yet another set of driver bits I have to keep around for some ""no user repairable parts inside" (remember scrambled cable boxes?)

[@TonyRule]

You forgot about the JIS, often improperly called 'The Japanese Philips'. They don't cam out. Also, when I was an apprentice mechanic, the only time I encountered Torx was on European cars. I worked at a dealership that represented three European marques, along with one Japanese and a Korean. The europeans were Renault, Peugeot, and Fiat. The first time I encountered them was holding down the seats of a Peugeot 405 Mi16x4. Yet weirdly I was one of the only ones that ever bought the Torx drivers, in the form of a 3/8" set. I enjoyed a few 'free' lunches renting them out to the tradesmen.

[@nicholasnickson7254]

I'm English. I spent years with stripped phillips screws and a slighter different version called posidrive. Both useless. Then four years ago I discovered Robertsons, I LOVE them.

[@ColinElliott-nx4rk]

I was wondering why pozidrive hadn't been mentioned. because that's my big hate. By a set of bits, and it includes a few of each, looking almost identical, and leaving one to wonder which to use when confronted by a head which might be phillips. Or might be pozidrive. I then have to try a few until one seems to grip best. Is this only suffered in Britain? I like Robertson screws, though, of which I have a few, but phillips are far more common, and to a lesser extent but increasingly, allen and torx.

[@raghardeishi972]

@@ColinElliott-nx4rk You can like look at screw, and look at screwdriver. It's obvious which fits which.

[@garypautard1069]

@@raghardeishi972 Yes many DIY people are confused between Philips and Posidrive. Of course Posi have an X stamped on the head . Some manufacturers have created a Slot/Philips hybrid which are useless. Of course an impact driver will bash them in.

[@thearmouredpenguin7148]

Pozidrive is essentially an improved Phillips allowing for more torque and reduced tendency to cam out.

[@tz8785]

@@raghardeishi972 You an see which is which if you know what to look for, but if you have to explicitly look for the difference I wouldn't call that obvious.

[@spencerjoplin2885]

Thank you Kreg for single-handedly popularizing #2 Robertson in the States. It’s my shop standard.

[@leestuurmans2837]

Having a shop standard is the dream! I use pockethole joinery in the cabinetry I make, and I was pretty stoked to find milescraft makes Torx t20 pockethole screws. T20 everything!

[@billmorash3322]

@@leestuurmans2837 Yeah, but sometimes you need two hands to guide the Torx screw into the pocket. Not so with the Robertson.

[@mrniusi11]

square suck.

[@coolbugfacts1234]

Shame on Kreg for making this terrible screw design more popular. Their screws strip very easily and the bit gets stuck in the screw constantly. It's the worst screw design ever made, much worse than Phillips.

[@jimdoe1694]

@@coolbugfacts1234

[@upperpine]

I thoroughly enjoyed this. My father, gone for 70 years now, left me a couple lifetimes of traditional screws. Of course I've added to that, now owning a couple lifetimes of Phillips and square head screws. Were it not for their appearance in electronics I would have avoided Torx. WAIT!!! last week a screw left my Stihl chainsaw. I did have a stash of replacements but spent an hour looking for the proper Torx bit. This has been a challenging years already but the 'screw' discourse was a joy.

[@johncasey1020]

I don't care about the content of the video, but your wonderfully organized shop kept me watching.

[@tomleiningerphoto]

My grandfather was a sewing machine repairman in the 70s through 90s. I remember him complaining about the decline in the quality of machines made in Asia. I also remember a few lectures about the evils of philips head screws. He loved slotted screws. I have one of his old long slotted screwdrivers. But I hate slotted screws.

[@better.better]

they have their place, the others all require the driver to be straight on or it won't stay on the head when you turn, but a flat head can turn it at an angle. unfortunately, the head always slips off the slot left or right as you turn it too which pretty much negates that one advantage 😂

[@Jack42Frost]

Let's not even start on Allen Keys.

[@islandwills2778]

the only advantage of slotted screws is that they are the one screw that can be easily removed using makeshift tools such as a butter knife.

[@TAWei-hi6uv]

@@islandwills2778 There is one other advantage - slotted screws make the best "ting" sound as you toss them in the garbage can in a fit of rage.

[@bluedistortions]

Slotted screws are great, if you only plan on rotating a screw at one rotation per 5 seconds, and never tight enough to accomplish anything. Great for Grandpa's wasting time in the shed to avoid the wife and kids.

[@paulmount1119]

Robbie's are easy when getting my wife to get me a driver, " Just say " Square Head, with: Red Handle or Green Handle, or Yellow Handle or Black Handle". she always gets me the right one!

[@andycarter9456]

"It's not a bug, it's a facility". An engineer from a famous mainframe computer manufacturer actually said this in my presence when asked why their operating system was so counter intuitive of not downright eccentric.

[@philoopnorth4901]

When a local theatre did a big renovation / restoration to get it back to its original appearance they even went so far as to replace visible Phillips screws with flathead ones as it was built in shortly before the Phillips screw was available. You have to love theobsessive attention to detail.

[@johnfurr8779]

I emigrated from the US to Canada as a child... When I went to my American relatives to install central AC my relatives were blown away by how awesome the Robertson screws I used on ductwork were and how the screws didn't fall off the screw driver bits

[@Bagel12321]

i was thinking about torx the whole time. very funny at the end

[@Beakerbite]

It only took us a century to figure it out. Progress!

[@Snowdog070]

Canadian here coming to you live from my igloo with a long internet cable laying on the snow (in April). I can confirm my admiration of the Robertson and disdain for the Phillips. A friend and member of my hunt camp is so pro-Robertson that he dismantles most things which come with Phillips and replaces them with Robertson. I share his views but won't go that far. I don't know of any deck I've seen on this side of the border built with Phillips screws. I've framed and built a few large wooden projects and couldn't imagine doing it with Phillips screws. A red, Robertson screwdriver is in every tool kit in Canada.

[@DeliveryMcGee]

I remember once reading a firsthand story from a Canadian artist who sent a bunch of her work to a show in the US. When she showed up the day before the exhibit was to open, her stuff was still packed up. She had to call her friend back home to overnight her a screwdriver bit to open the crates.

[@robertpearson8798]

As a Canadian I admit that Torx are great but the relative cost here is prohibitive. Philips are my screw of choice for drywall. Go into a Canadian hardware store (including Home Depot and Lowes) and Robertson make up the majority of screw choices. When purchasing hardware like hinges, towel racks, etc. that come with Philips screws I often toss them in favour of Robbies if possible.

[@Patrick-857]

Phillips is good for collated screw guns, which is why it will never stop being the drywall screw of choice. Phillips will also likely never be replaced in manufacturing. It works really well with auto feeding screw drivers on production lines, especially with really small screws. Here in NZ we are big on square drive in the construction industry, but torx is slowly gaining momentum, mainly with higher quality speciality screws. Phillips is ever present.

[@swmovan]

Most of the screws that come with hinges, towel racks, etc, are almost worthless. They may work in a pinch, if nothing else is available, but I usually toss them for something longer and better quality.

[@lawabidingcitizen5153]

Interesting, here in Europe they are only at most about 20% more expensive than pozi, well worth it though...

[@wombatillo]

@@Patrick-857 A bunch of computers and tiny electronics do use torx screws. Some of the ones in mobile phones are absolutely tiny, yet still torx and automatically driven. Phillips is cheaper, true.

[@Patrick-857]

@wombatillo One thing I hate is torx in European cars. They use that and a bunch of really weird ones. The problem is that torx can handle the specified tightening torque at the factory, but not the required breakaway torque for the poor bugger that has to repair the thing. Another example of European cars aren't built to be repaired.

[@user-kv4kc4pg6l]

I lived in Colorado years ago. As a Canadian I brought with me boxes of Robertson screws and built a few decks for myself and friends The neighbours in the area were flabbergasted at how fast I screwed the boards down .To me it was just a normal day.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

Every couple weeks I get a talking to at work because I have a pile of unused Phillips head screws that come free from vendors. I buy Torx screws separately to use. Robertson screws started to become popular with carpenters in America until they discovered Torx. Square drives are still common with electrical equipment. If you walk through the fastener aisle of a hardware store, it's still mostly Phillips, but I'm convinced that no one actually buys them, they've just been there for years.

[@pldaniels]

@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 definitely more a fan of torx than 'square' - maybe it's just poor quality bits & screws we get here but trying to drive in a square at anything short of near perfectly perpendicular with the driving bit and it spits it out faster than my kids with brussel sprouts.

[@alexd9784]

And every homeowner and future homeowner of those properties cursed your name and your ancestors when they had to drive to the store and buy the bit to remove them 25 years down the road when it needed to be replaced.

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

@@alexd9784 Cursed for 20 minutes, then blessed for years when they learned how much better square is than Phillips. Then maybe ignored because Torx is even better.

[@user-kv4kc4pg6l]

@@alexd9784call me what you want but don’t call me late for dinner

[@philipgrice1026]

Over the past few weeks, I have assembled a total of 17 kitchen cabinets. Some wall cabinets and others base cabinets. Each cabinet is built using pre-painted CNC machined plywood. The CNC milling results in excellent fit, but the assembly process involves dozens of short Phillips head screws, conveniently made from non-magnetic stainless steel, so they won't rust, but neither will they adhere to the end of a screwdriver. Fully half the time it took to assemble these cabinets was spent trying to install tiny screws in tight spaces where they repeatedly fell off and rolled into a corner. One day I wrote a critique to the manufacturers asking why the hell they didn't use Robertson screws. Of course, they did not reply. The last wall cabinet I built consisted of making a 12" wall cabinet into an 8" wall cabinet. It was simple to remove the staples around the front frame and remove the two Robertson screws used to secure the cross rails to the vertical rails! So, if these imbeciles are able to use Robertson screws in the frame, why the hell not elsewhere? Answer? I predict these so-called US made cabinets use Canadian frames and CNC plywood but Chinese screws! Why Chinese? Because I have learned over the years that the Chinese are very detail oriented and always put the exact correct number of fasteners in little snap lock bags. Never too few and never too many. Always the exact numbers. No American fabricator can be bothered to be that accurate. None. I have Robertson screws holding the superb oak cabinetry together in our Monaco Dynasty coach, as well as the entire wooden dashboard and instrument panel. It is always an easy task to disassemble the dash when upgrading instruments or stereo components. The Robertson screws are as perfect as the day they were first installed back in 1995 when we bought it. All Phillips screws are an abomination and frankly no better that flat head screws. Some Torx screws are okay, but only when suitable to use in a magnetic driver as they nearly always fall off the drive bit.

[@microcolonel]

Robertson is very popular in electrical installations. Most screws in and on a panelboard tend to have a Robertson #1 on them, except many of the dead front closing screws require a nut driver.

[@Simonfrios]

Stumpy, I have to commend you for this piece: not only is the writing stellar, but the research that went into this is equally impressive. Love it when you delve into the history of the craft.

[@earlyriser8998]

Ditto. Great puns and humor and had fun with the story.

[@Simonfrios]

@@earlyriser8998 agreed. His humor is on point. I'll never forget that "cam-outs" actually serve a purpose.

[@taxicamel]

@@Simonfrios ....and what "purpose" is that? Typically, material gets damaged when this occurs ....or someone might get hurt .....so what's the purpose of a cam-out .....more properly known as a screwdriver slip. .

[@Simonfrios]

@@taxicamel did you watch the video? Cam out to stop a screw from breaking by over-torquing. it's hard to think of a use-case for that, but sounds like it could serve a purpose

[@dukecraig2402]

​@@Simonfrios Yea, and the part he leaves out or doesn't know is that the "cam out" feature of a Phillips screw was intentionally designed into it, it wasn't an "accident", the very purpose is so that there's screws that can be used on a mass production line without snapping off head's or stripping threads, it's all covered in the language of the patent and is not an accident due to a bad design that just happened to find a home. If industry loved it for it's mass production qualities then ok, so why does America get demonized for that? Another thing not covered in this highly educational video is that there's more than one type of cross tip screwdriver and fastener, and guess what? The aircraft industry doesn't use Phillips, it didn't during WW2 and hasn't since, neither does Japan and that's why the screw head's on all the cross tip fasteners on Japanese motorcycle's and the Keihin carbs on Harley's strip out when you try using regular Phillips screwdrivers on them, they're ground entirely different and a Phillips screwdriver only contacts a tiny bit of the cross cuts in the screw head, Japanese vehicles use JIS (Japanese Industry Standard) cross tip fasteners, they're easily identified by a punch mark dot on the dome of the screw head, all people have to do is just order a set of JIS screwdrivers online and then they can quit blaming America for the fact that they're using the wrong tool for something. And when it comes to aircraft you have to watch, everything from screwdrivers being ground different to different thread pitches on fasteners can easily get people in trouble who don't know what they're doing but think they do, nuts and bolts on aircraft use thread pitches you won't find in a tap and die set you buy at the auto parts store, even tool dealers like Snap-On have to special order the stuff unless they're one that services the aviation industry, even the octane rating for Avgas is measured using a different scale than what automotive pump gas is, that's why I roll my eyes and bite my tongue every time I'm around some screwball who swears up and down about how much better his bike runs on the 98 octane gas his cousin who works at the airport hooks him up with, measured the same way pump gas is measured it's actually right around 93 which you can get at any gas station below 5,000 ft elevation and is a lot cheaper than Avgas, which because it has anti boiling agents and other necessary chemicals in the event it's put in an aircraft with a supercharged engine that can fly at high altitude those chemicals are actually detrimental to what they're trying to do at relative sea level on the pavement anyway, but these are guy's that believe octane is a chemical in gas that the more of it you have the faster you'll go, and I learned a long time ago not to try telling them different, they're the same guys who think all the Japanese screws are junk because they all strip. Another industry that has people stripping screws that don't know what they're doing is firearms, that's why even your best Snap-On screwdrivers strip the slots on screws in guns, and even then the industry itself isn't standardized, there's different screwdriver sets for Winchester's, Remington's, Colts and just about every firearm you can name, that's because they've been in business long before anything was standardized and all developed their own fasteners. The moral of the story is use the right tool for the job and quit blaming your shortcomings on America.

[@CanadianCitizenshipTestKit]

Short version of the story: A friend of mine is a (Canadian) engineer. His company built and crated a piece of equipment that they then shipped to Holland. The Dutch company was apparently perplexed and frustrated when they took delivery. The Canadian company had to DHL a Robertson screwdriver to Holland so they could open the crate. 🤣

[@RandomGuyOnYoutube601]

While square screwheads are rare in Europe, it is not difficult to buy a square bit.

[@espressomatic]

Weird, because I can easily find square drive in other European countries, like Portugal and Germany. It would have taken minutes to go out and get a Wera or Wiha square drive which I'm sure are readily available in the Netherlands.

[@Mike40M]

I'm an European who never has seen a Robertson screw. Though I have a bits set including square bits. Until now never understood what they are for.

[@jonb3311]

@@Mike40M Ditto. I've come across triangular heads, argh.

[@lawrencebraun7616]

The Dutch could have taken a regular screw driver.Cut the end off. Went to a grinder and ground it square

[@BertieJasokie]

I'm from India and we don't have as much access to the kind of tools you have. I absolutely hate flat heads cause most of the ones we get are terrible quality, torx and hexes strip easily and are expensive, especially the imported ones. Philips are the only reliable, cheap and easy to use option we have and it ain't gonna die anytime soon. Most wood working professionals are slowly shifting to using these and moving away from those horrible flat heads that some people are championing in the comments for some reason. 🤣

[@jonmce1]

I worked for a Canadian company that exported all over the world and we used Robertson screws. The standing joke was especially in the middle east was to bring a lot of extra Robertson screw drivers and screws with you because they would all disappear because the locals liked them far better than the alternatives.

[@billtabb8755]

The sarcastic puns are the best ever and have made this installment my favorite of all time!

[@oh8wingman]

My ex-brother in law is a carpenter by trade and he has built hundreds of decks in and around the Detroit area. Since he was based out of Windsor Ontario, he always used Robertson screws. One of his employees, a fellow from Michigan, decided to go on his own. He tried Phillips screws but soon converted over to Robertson which he purchased by the box load in Canada. Other builders in the area took note and now there are lots of Robertson screws to be found in the area since they work so well with deck screw guns.

[@kaasmeester5903]

Compared to Phillips, almost anything (except flathead) works better with power tools. Never seen a Robertson screw here in Europe, and the most common screw used to be Pozidrive (a more grippy Phillips variant), but I noticed at some point the DYI stores one by one switched their store brand screws from Pozidrive to Torx.

[@aitorbleda8267]

@@kaasmeester5903 Square (not Robertson) is quite popular for example in ikea furniture. Torx is no doubt the superior option.

[@gavinpearcey]

The Torx, the solution to the the problem that had already been solved.

[@FJB2020]

Ding Ding Ding.. I only see Torx in the US.. Them weirdos to the north still using squares.. Guess South park got them right lol..

[@SamTheEnglishTeacher]

​@@FJB2020 People use them in NZ if they're doing high-end construction work and don't care about the cost of the screws

[@cottrelr]

The best thing about Torx screws is when your screw is a T20 and your bit is a T25

[@Regolith86]

@@cottrelr That's why you get a bit kit that has like five or six of each. 😅

[@opotime]

And Spax T-Star is the answer to torx ;-)

[@thomashounsome7737]

I do a fair bit of renovation and demolition, another advantage the Robertson has is that it comes out easier. When using an impact driver to do decking or framing, you can back it out and drive it back in easy to help pull boards together as well.

[@billkeithchannel]

The Phillip's Head drywall screw is like the universal choice for just about anything not just drywall. A good hardened steel bit makes for a great grip. Pre-drilling a smaller hole is a good idea for situations where the head could fail and pop off if the medium is too dense.

[@ZPdrumer]

lol I love all the little jokes in here maple syrup, butter, etc. too many to capture. great video very entertaining but very informative as well

[@drgruber57]

Yes! I was laughing quite a bit through this video! He was in fine form! Healthy dose of sarcasm too.

[@michaelraiman573]

So many, chefs kiss! Informative history, with little nuggets of humor that only is limited to the amount that you pay attention. Keep this type of content flowing, love it.

[@eriksolie4999]

My grandfather was a cabinet maker. Both my father and I grew up to know these as "Canadian Furniture Screws", and I can't stop thinking that whenever I see them!

[@tonynieuwoudt8469]

After seeing your workshop, I was so filled with envy that I had to go to confession, and I'm not even Catholic! Am subscribing Stumpy. Awesome channel that gives me a chuckle with some history and solid gen. TKS

[@heyimamaker]

wow wow wow, best version of John Candy! 20 years ago I worked in a bike shop and sent a very expensive spoke cutter back to the US for calibration and it was packaged up in a little crate using Robertson screws. THe company said they had to machine a bit to dismantle the crate 😂

[@throttlebottle5906]

very likely, as robertson bits were few and far between at that time, I had a few sets, but they were all cheap junk and would twist off, round/cam out if there was any torque required. then again, I could snap off flat heads, both the screws and screw drivers by hand, often phillips heads too. when using an impact or drill-driver, when you hit hard material, they ALL will shear off the fastener just below the head with enough power holding the bit in place. been there done that for 25+ years, when I had only hand tools. yeah I have a very strong grip

[@Matt_Foley]

@@throttlebottle5906stop tugging on your member so much.

[@chapiit08]

Strange, because three sizes of Robertson bits come in almost every driver bit set.

[@don1857]

Proud Canadian here, I still have some of my father's Robertson drivers from the 1950's complete with wooden handles. They are still as true as the day they were made. i challenge anyone to find a Phillips driver that has not stripped and become dull after 70 years!

[@gorkyd7912]

Got plenty of Phillips that have never been stripped or dull. Mainly I only use them for hose clamps on certain vehicles.

[@AndriasTravels]

The old Philips are equally good. The post-60's Philips are generally poor, as you say. The modern Robertson fares better when being made overseas with low grade steels and poor quality control.

[@LegorocketsAnimation]

I have some Phillips that have stripped in only 5 years, and I'm not a carpenter or anyone who would use them super often.

[@tonys4341]

Very interesting video. I wasn't aware of the history behind it. I do remember as a kid, seeing a steam powered Robertson screw maker (I'm not that old! It was a steam engine tractor show) and was fascinated by the hot, oily screws dropping from it. I also remember my father, an engineer at a factory that manufactured among other things, an automotive creeper. The advertising photographer made some shots that showed the creeper in "action" and they ended up on the front of the packaging box. My father was appalled, because the photographer, apparently ignorant of all things mechanical, used Robertson screwdrivers as a prop. He suggested they redo the photos, but was overruled by the CEO. "No one will notice," said the Grand Poobah. Except oddly enough, car mechanics, who were the target market, are well aware of which tools are which. A few weeks after launch, they got some very negative feedback from the large chain, Canadian Tire, mentioning among others things, the wrong screwdriver

[@bridgecross]

I have a home in New York state built around the 1910's. When we decided to pull up the old floorboards in the attic, we found the entire thing had been put down with square head screws, and of varying sizes as well. I have to say once we got the proper bits, I could see why people like them.

[@MrSlipstreem]

European here. I haven't used a Phillips screw in many decades. Nearly everything here is Pozidriv (often incorrectly spelled "Pozidrive") or Superdrive with no cam-out issues, unless you're using the wrong screwdriver, obviously.

[@DalHrusk]

If you never have cam-out issues with pozidriv you must be kind of magician ;-) After I first tried torx, I never wanted anything else.

[@Knowarxana]

The only issue is that people always seem to think pozi and Phillips are interchangeable, and don't see any problem using the wrong size. THAT is what causes most stripping and camming on pz imo.

[@DalHrusk]

@@Knowarxana This is just what you think. I well recognize the difference between PZ and PH and I always use the exact matching size of bit but I still have issues. The biggest problems are screws smaller than 4mm in diameter, panhead screws and unscrewing. Who says that he never has camming issues in these cases is either amazingly skilled or just liar. With torx, you don't even need to push on scredriver. As I said - I tried it once and never wanted anything else. And with ball-torx screwdriver, you can even screw at an angle of about 20-30°. Try that with PZ.

[@m.a.6478]

Pozi is one of the worst human factor error inducing inventions in recent years. I'm happy Torx is ending the cursing and sweating when servicing parts which were last seen by a "oh, it's just a cross shaped screw head, I'll use my cross shaped screwdriver" person. Especially below M4 sizes it's almost impossible to see the lines and with a good amount of Loctite the damage is guaranteed.

[@Knowarxana]

@@m.a.6478 personally I'm a fan of JIS, but I can't count the number of stripped heads I've had to deal with on older Japanese motorcycles, where people have used Phillips, not realising the difference. JIS has a really satisfying positive lock. If it hasn't been wrecked by a Phillips, I've got out stuck screws that haven't shifted for 50 years. I shudder whenever I hear someone refer to a "cross head screw"

[@MultiVogon]

Glad to see the Posidriv gang in the comments - once you've tried 'em you'll never use Phillips again 👍

[@autobootpiloot]

Pz is only good with a very high quality bit or screwdriver. Torx is much better because you can use the cheap stuff in most cases.

[@_JamesBrown]

The whole ski industry uses posidrive

[@MultiVogon]

Not going to argue with that - I've stripped plenty in my time with inattention. My car uses Torx everywhere so I've had to buy a load of new screwdrivers (always a good day when you get to buy new tools 😀)

[@donkmeister]

True. Although any fastener experience is improved through using quality tools and fasteners. I've rounded off Tx heads before, usually some user error involved where I've not cleaned out the broach before undoing the fastener. One of the good things about Pz (and indeed Ph) is that for typical DIY purposes you can do about 90% of your work with a #2, and the other 10% with a #1 and #3. So you can have a good stock of #2 and a few #1 and #3. I've actually got some #4 but never had anything that uses them. Whereas Tx, you need a good spread of sizes... They're more suited to engineered items, such as cars, where an engineer has determined the clamping force required and hence the fastener size and torque required. Whereas with wood we just shrug and say "yeah looks about the right size".

[@Volvith]

PZ is just Philips with extra steps. Garbage material still means you'll murder the profile. Square is great because neither the tool nor the material matters much.

[@simonstpauli]

This was very interesting, thank you! While being more expensive, I try to use ASSY most of the time. For me this is the best available drive system, slightly better than Torx.

[@phcorrigan]

IMO, Torx is currently the best overall design. They don't "cam-out." and the bits last seemingly forever. For drywall, however, Philips is a great design. When used with a proper drywall bit, the cam-out is a feature, allowing the screw to stop just below the surface of the drywall.

[@shannoncooley1575]

Love that you're infusing your great sense of humor back into your videos while keeping then well researched and informative. Well done !

[@Oueax]

I'm starting to use square drive more and more often. I'm an electrician in Hungary and our outlet screws and many terminal block screws use a combi head for PZ/Slotted/Square driver. I've got a pair of SL/PZ drivers but they tend to cam out occasinally too. Way less than PZ or slotted, but they still do it. Square on the other hand never let me down since I started using it. And although the combi drive shapes take away material from the square drive, giving it an awkward pyramid shape, the Robertson is still the most useful of them all.

[@huebdoo]

Im Canadian living in the states and they use Robertson down here as security screws for hinges on doors, windows and skylights ... when I looked at the guy installing them and mentioned, "why the Robertson?" He was panicked that I knew what it was and more shocked I had about 12 bits in varying sizes :)

[@ledocteur7701]

Industrial designer from Europe here, we use exclusively Allen and hex cap, they support a buttload of torque, almost never strip (apart from very bad quality or extremely rusted ones, but even then it's rare) and while they require the driver to be straight on, there are drivers that end in a ball shape, allowing for a decent amount of misalignment at the cost of torque. It's a bit weird to me that despite being extremely wide spread in the metal working industry (at least in Europe), it's almost never used for wood working.

[@thorinbane]

Canadian tool maker, we use them all the time. My only issue is the US still using imperial fractions. We have to have 2 sets of tools for metric and SAE. Metric is so much better overall and I say that as someone who started on standard. Want to know tap drill size-subtract the pitch from OD of tap. 10X1.5 tap is 8.5 drill. 3/8-16 tap...Ok first i need to do long math to find its measurement in inches 0.375 now I have to use 1 over 16 for the pitch=.0625?? Now subtract .0625 from 0.375 to get a new decimal number and use a chart to find the nearest drill. I mean you get to know the standards quick, but what a waste of time. Love using a ballend to get at those bad angles or cut an allen to get into a tight spot. The robertson is still better than those for fitting like a collet in a bridgeport(milling machine) taper fit goodness. The square drive is not a robertson, hence the frustration with them. Though still better than junkie philips.

[@Croz89]

I've don't think I've ever seen a _self tapping_ hex head screw. In terms of what might be called "bolts", they're pretty much the default choice, but anything self tapping is either cheese head (slotted), philips, pozidriv or torx.

[@ledocteur7701]

@@Croz89 They definitely exist, tho they most often use a different design than the classical cone-ish shape, instead having a drill-bit shaped section at the front followed by (almost) normal threads. a bolt is when a screw and a nut are put together, it's very commonly misused. Now that I think a bit more about it, maybe it's not as often used because wood is so soft you can't really slap a bunch of extra torque into the screw, otherwise the wood just strips, so you might as well play it safe and use a less torque resistant screw.

[@ledocteur7701]

@@thorinbane ho yeah true I didn't think about that, milling machines (and lathes as well), have square sockets specifically for the chuck, some parts of the tool changing system (for manual lathes at least) and almost nowhere else ! I was wondering whether or not a square socket could transmit more torque (the angle of "attack" being 90° rather than 60° for an hex) , what's your opinion on that since you used both ?

[@wombatillo]

How small do you go in driver bits and screw sizes? I generally prefer hex socket for anything technical but in my experience especially screws made for 3mm keys and smaller are very easy to strip even with good quality hand tools and if the screws are stainless steel the task becomes even more delicate.

[@CanCobb]

I'm an American living in Canada. I was arrogantly clinging to my Philips when I first moved here until I had professional experience with impact drivers. A robbie and an impact is unmatched for framing work that requires screws. The bit fits very tightly in the head, and you can even move the driver around after putting the screw on the bit for a limited time. Phillips is good for amateurs and for furniture assembly from Ikea. Robertson is what professionals use.

[@Alaorath]

As a Canadian, I'm sorry for your lack of "good" screwdrivers. :P Story Time... Our (Canadian) team was designing, and delivering a hardened PC for industrial use... this was decades ago, where places like PCBway didn't exist. So we designed and assembled the chassis in-house and delivered them to our Texas customer. They called a couple days later complaining about the "security screws" we used. We were all confused, we just used normal screws... I took a unit out of the lab and inspected it... #2 Robertson... as common as gravel up here. We were thinking TSA/customs had done something as they passed through the boarder, so we requested a photo. We all had a good chuckle at seeing our #2 Robertsons firmly in place. And the next batch of units we set with a dozen screwdrivers and bits. Until watching this, I had forgotten that... and it reminds me of some of the oddities/differences between our two countries. Take care, Canada's Pants. :P

[@petermadany2779]

It's great to see the issues in this episode finally coming to a head.

[@Ice_Karma]

Canadian here, who lived first as an adult in New Zealand and the US before moving back to Canada. One of the first things I had to do was get some Robertson bits. I had been going to comment about how some consider the Philips tendency to camout being considered a feature by some, before torque drivers were invented, but you covered that. 😺 A bit more about the first time Robertson tried to license the design: In 1913, Robertson co-founded a limited company in the UK, called Recess Screws (1913), Ltd., based in Gillingham, Kent. In 1926, another company, Kent Construction and Engineering, Co., Ltd., bought the assets of Recess Screws (1913), Ltd., which included Robertson's screw patent (which they'd been marketing under the trademark "Recess"), and promptly formed a new company, called Recess Screws (1926), Ltd., combining both firms' product lines (Kent already produced other lines of screws and bolts under their own trademarks) under a new trademark, "Chequer". Unlike the preceding, I can't find anything on the web to confirm the following now, but I recall reading somewhere that the other co-owners of the first Recess Screws deliberately bankrupted the company, so that the other company they controlled, Kent Construction and Engineering, could purchase Recess Screw's assets, including Robertson's screw patent, and cut him out of the picture. Ford's plant in Windsor, Ontario, Canada started using Robertson screws -- 700 of them each, apparently -- supplied by Robertson's own Milton, Ontario factory in locally-manufactured Model Ts, and found that they saved two hours of assembly time. Ford wanted to license the design from Robertson, so he could have his company manufacture them as part of its vertical integration, but Robertson was unwilling to license his US patent to Ford because of his bitter experience in the UK with Recess Screw. That said, Robertson himself held the US patent for his design -- apparently unlike the situation in the UK? -- so I'm not sure I understand what outcome Robertson was afraid of.

[@thorinbane]

Because of ford not just wanting to license them but buy the patent, he didn't want to leave the possibility of his manufacturing going down to any other company , let alone one across the river in a foreign country controlled by a competing empire, the british.

[@AlanTheBeast100]

Fun fact - when you order a Leatherman accessory bit pack for the Wave, Leatherman add a few Robertson bits ... for Canadian customers. I still prefer Robertson for 99% of things - but 99% of things don't use Robertson. When doing electrical work nothing beats Robertson. Drywall works okay with Phillips, never enough torque to "torque out" or strip. And a deft hand with a drill and Phillips head (or correctly torque set impact) will set the screw head about a paper thickness or 2 below the surface. Perfect. I like Torx too but #2 Robertson's do most of what I need. Cheap #1 Robertson screws will strip easily. I even have a #0 Robertson screwdriver - have never used it. When I built my shed I used Robertson screws most everywhere instead of nails. But the sheathing got some extra nails for shear strength.

[@espressomatic]

You'll use #0 Robertson a lot if you're using #4 wood or machine screws in Canada. :) Electrical is Robertson all day all the time - only an idiot would use a Philips driver - that includes in the US - for screws that aren't exclusively Philips.

[@ctrlaltdebug]

Drywall screws are also very hard steel which helps prevent strip out. It's those soft tiny screws and cheap wood screws that always strip out.

[@AlanTheBeast100]

@@ctrlaltdebug Indeed - (but) for drywall the torque required is too low for cam out, never mind stripping the head. Drywall screws are also nice and sharply pointed with hard/sharp edges on the threads - they cut into the wood really efficiently (low torque). (Oddly enough I have one of these screws on my desk as I write this...).

[@StewPedassle]

A tangential benefit to Robertsons that an old boss in the US told me 20 years ago -- you can 'sharpen' your driver like new. The owner would never do this, but if someone else damages the end of your bit by dropping it etc, you can just give it a zip on the grinder to remove the damaged portion -- it's just a uniform square rather than something with complex angles to maintain. Yeah, it's a smidge shorter, but no one notices.

[@stephensteele3553]

Switched to Robertson several years ago. Then on accident I bought Torx screws. I was too lazy to go back to HD for the fourth time that day (HD is the schrödinger's box of projects). So I dug through my drive set and pulled out the never used Torx drive set. I will never go back to Robertson. So much easier to blind place a drive tip. All the advantages of Robertson, without fumbling to get it seated without looking. Doesn't strip out like an Allen head. Slowly my vehicles are becoming all Torx drives as I make sure to replace every fastener I touch with the Torx equivalent.

[@bmedicky]

Great video. Worth pointing out that in Canada, Robertson screws are so overwhelmingly common that it's actually difficult to find any other head style in the usual big-box stores. Usually you have to go to a specialty fastener store to get slot-drive screws and Philips (the one exception being that hinges prepackaged with screws will often have Philips screws).

[@FiltyIncognito]

Philips are still annoyingly common. We rely too much on US stuff.

[@yvan2563]

I don't know if it's the same everywhere in Canada, but here in Québec most screws sold in stores are either Square+Philips screws or Square+Philips+slotted screws. Yes we have Robertson-only screws, but they're not as common as the other two.

[@bluewren65]

Those screws that come with hinges are almost invariably shitty and need to be thrown away.

[@reverse_engineered]

I've never had trouble finding Phillips screws in Home Depot, Rona, or Canadian Tire. There are lots of options. The only time I've noticed a lack of Phillips was when looking at deck screws which were overwhelmingly Robertson. There were a couple models of Phillips off to the side in the specialty stuff, but the rest was all Robertson. Not that I'd ever want to use Phillips for driving in a 3 inch deck screw.

[@B0jangle5]

The smaller torx heads wear too easily. Robertson is solid which is why it's used in high value applications like healthcare and boat building. The Canadians are right to be proud of them.

[@mrniusi11]

no way, squares round off way quicker than torx.

[@gg-gn3re]

Use the correct bit size. Torx drivers that are too small can still turn a screw but will strip it. Torx is superior as it has more surface area contact. Square strips easier. Size is not relevant there, only surface area contact

[@silentferret1049]

I have had robersons screws cam out because not able to get a dirrectly seated angle on the screw and round out the bit. Torx don't really wear out unless you got a cheap bit. They would more likely snap off than wear out. I have found out that torx can work well enough on a slight side angle than robertson. They don't have to be fully seated or they don't work. each have their problems and benefits.

[@markjacobson4248]

​@@gg-gn3reIt's actually about a great many things and no KZbin comment is ever going to go into sufficient detail to actually explain why one driver design might be more robust than another.

[@gg-gn3re]

@@markjacobson4248 I just did

[@Bogie3855]

I am Canadian and a woodworker. I have used Robertson screws all my life and have 100yr old furniture with original Robertsons still holding them together. Unlike Phillips screws, you can put a Robertson screw on the tip of you driver and wave the damn thing all over the place making it easy to feed into a pilot hole. Most of us Canadians hate Phillips screws along with slot.

[@user-tc3wt1mi1z]

I won't use anything but Torx if I can help it. I resurfaced an old wood deck, and started removing the screws with a phillips bit, cursing every time it cammed out until I realized it had been done with combination head (X/Sq) screws. I switched to a square bit and my attitude improved for the whole day.

[@rodneygoerger7163]

I am a finish carpenter who likes #1 and #2 square drive for production work.Lately I have been using combo drive ,you can use both Phillips or square drive with them. Phillips are fine for mechanical and lite duty. Torx and the German plex drive is ok too.

[@gregglouis2969]

Telling his screw driver he was sorry and took a shot of maple syrup. I HAVENT LAUGHED THAT HARD IN A LONG TIME. THANK YOU!!!

[@jamesfetherston1190]

I also like “ he injured his best nosepicker”

[@alexd9784]

As a Canadian, more like 7 shots of whiskey that could barely pass as gasoline

[@robw9435]

Yeah, but I laughed even harder when he said a Canadian screwdriver was a canuckleheaded idea.

[@jamesfetherston1190]

@@robw9435 That one too. He was on fire in this one.

[@BruceS42]

My first experience with square drive screws was in putting up some gutters. I used the bit that came with the screws, and it was junk. The driver jumped out of the hole worse than any Phillips drive, and I was disgusted with the whole thing. Then it occurred to me to look at it closely, and I realized the square hole was a lot deeper than that bit fit into. I bought some tool-quality square drive bits, and they did exactly what I wanted. Every screw was held securely, the driver clutch determined the "quit" point, and the whole job was done quickly. Since then, I prefer Robinson over other drives for most purposes. To avoid over-driving, I simply set the clutch on whatever driver I'm using.

[@fliprim]

Nice storytelling. Allen is the real winner, and especially in high-tech applications, with spherical head drivers. For a few years I championed a screw head design called "system zero", with little head deformation in manufacture and huge torque capability. Rubbish at any driver angling, which rounded head Allen/hex screwdrivers ace at.

[@bite-sizedshorts9635]

When I worked at Hatteras Yachts in New Bern, NC, we only used the square hole screws. The screwdriver was called a 4-way screwdriver, because it had the bits for four different sizes of screws that were used on the yachts. I still have a few loose ones in the bottom of my old toolbox from the 80s.

[@bobalman]

This was a fun episode, thank you! I purely detest Phillips screws!

[@imqqmi]

Same, once I converted to torx, I threw out all phillips wood screws. For bolts phillips is still quite common, as is allen/hex keys. allen screws can also cam out if they're made of softer types of steel but when made of proper hard steel you can put a lot of force on them.

[@robertthomas5906]

I've always loved them. I had a whole bunch of floor boards to shut up recently. House flip. It had squeeky floorboards. Some course drywall screws and a Phillips with twist off stop. I'm drilling them in one after the other without a problem and they're all flush with the floor every time. I was done with the whole house in 10 minutes. No way I could do that with the inferior Robertson. Next step was to lay the bamboo flooring. As long as you have the right Phillips head it works amazingly well. Wrong head for the job is where the problem comes in. I even ran into a blue electrical box that someone broke a Phillips head off of. Into plastic. That was fun to get out. Google new screw heads. There's a whole bunch of wacky ones.

[@RBHMMX]

When I unscrew something I usually collect the screws from it but if it is a Philips head I usually throw it away. I tell everybody who uses my tools on Philips screws that if they cam out they are killing unicorns. When I buy something I need to assemble and it has a Phillips screw I feel like I just bought a brand new phone with USB mini.

[@karltaylor5643]

Thanks for educating me today. Robertson is rare and kinda hard to find. Never was fond of the Phillips. Too many similar Phillips that don't fit right. I like the torx better.

[@ruck-a-tron]

I had to go out and by apex bits for the Robinson when I was remodeling my bathroom. The cabinets and the counter top were held together with them. I zipped them out with no issues. I like that they don't strip out the screw heads.

[@westhillswood51]

Henry ford was great innovator and his contributions to all industry are still with us. He also couldn't leave well enough alone and sought to control everything then squash anyone who stood in his way. I use both Phillips and square drive screws in my shop and really don't spend much time thinking about them unless an old piece comes in for restoration. Those typically have slotted screws and go back together with replacement slotted screws, all in final alignment of course. Keep your stick on the ice! We're all in this together.

[@jlucasound]

On the Next Stumpy Nubs: Duct Tape. 🤣🩹

[@stratocruising]

Mark of a really good electrician. All the slots on the screws in the house for the receptacle covers and switch plates are aligned, either all vertical or all horizontal And the receptacles that are switch-controlled are upside down.

[@jepulis6674]

Or was he just the face like Musk and never did any of the real work?

[@quirkygreece]

I love your blend of humour and information, James, and this is a classic Stumpy Nubbs video. Excellent - thank you.

[@hvachacker586]

In the US the Robertson is still what most small electric breakers (15-30amp) and buss bars use. Its also in combo with flat head and Philips. It allows you to properly torque the connection much easier without slipping.

[@paulmaxwell8851]

When I'm house-building (something my wife and I do a lot) we buy a lot of hardware. Door hinges, tracks, drawer slides, you name it, they almost all come with Philips screws. I keep boxes and boxes of Robertsons on hand and replace all those Philips screws right away, as soon as the package is opened. The Philips all go in a bucket to be recycled. I tell friends that Philips screws DO have their place.......in that bucket.

[@pyromedichd1]

Torx is my favorite screw head. Nearly impossible to strip out. I used #8 Robertson head stainless finishing screws and had trouble with the heads stripping out, not so with the Torx screws I used later.