BOMBSHELL testimony changes the whole SawStop narrative!

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[@StumpyNubs]

▼ *IMPORTANT DETAILS ABOUT VIDEO:* ▼ - NPR Article: www.npr.org/2024/04/02/1241148577/table-saw-injuries-safety-sawstop-cpsc - CSPS Hearing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/paqteHhoi96cmpIsi=zmoRDZ7aYuJYknj1 ★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★ The BEST blades I have ever used are from Ridge Carbide. These are the three I think every shop should have: - Ridge Carbide 40-tooth table saw combo blade- (use discount code SNWJ10): ridgecarbidetool.com/saw-blades/ridge-super-blades/table-saw-blades/10-ts2000-super-blade.html - Ridge Carbide 80-tooth table saw OR miter saw crosscut/plywood blade (use discount code SNWJ10): ridgecarbidetool.com/collections/miter-radial-saw-blades/products/10-x-80-ar-4-1-5-hk-087-115-rs1000-super-miter - Ridge Carbide 24-tooth table saw rip blade (use discount code SNWJ10): ridgecarbidetool.com/saw-blades/ridge-super-blades/table-saw-blades/10-ts2000-full-kerf-rip-super-blade.html *My Table Saw and Bandsaw are AWSOME! Check them out at Harvey Woodworking Machinery:* www.harveywoodworking.com/ *My hand tool collection includes premium tools from Bridge City Tool Works:* bridgecitytools.com/ *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission) *Some other useful links:* -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ -Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE INEXPENSIVE TOOLS★ - #ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save 10%): bit.ly/3BHYdH7 -123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij -Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK -Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv -Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9 -Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK -Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW -Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7 -Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak -Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI -Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3 -Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6 -Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13 -BOW Featherboards: amzn.to/430ldhv (If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)

[@c0rr4nh0rn]

It is worth noting that liability for an injury with a table saw without sawstop already exist in that sawstop is reliable and proven at this point. The regulation would add weight, but I personally could see the radial arm saw disappearance happening without the regulation just due to the way guards are so easily forgotten about..

[@Pygon2]

I hope this gets some visibility, given some of the inaccuracies. SawStop Technology is expensive partially because they have been the sole manufacturer to date -- both intentionally and because of manufacturer's refusals to adopt -- and they do not hold a majority share of the market. Your pricing speculation that there would be no new saws for "less than $700-800 bucks" seems to ignore that the CPSC already estimated the potential costs using current market costs for AIM technologies and not factoring any additional economy of scale because the patents are still in effect. Even doing so, their estimates were that the cost for the cheapest saws would be "more than double" at $400 or more, again, based primarily on the costs of development or licensing patented technologies. Another reason for the more expensive cost of these AIM systems is that they are designed to prevent damage to the device overall, not just injury. You state cheaper saws aren't robust enough, but stopping the blade doesn't necessarily require them to be robust (ignore that the Reaxx system avoids this completely). Cheaper saws do not have a need to survive the failure or have replaceable parts since the survivability of the saw isn't necessary at that price point. Anyone who complains that they have to buy another $300-400 saw because they DIDN'T need to spend $10k on hospital bills after losing a finger/hand might need to re-evaluate their priorities. As for Manufacturer's claims about extraordinary costs, they use the same tired ruse every time they want to protect profits in the face of regulations. The cost of Bosch's development was significant not because it was a difficult engineering problem, but because they were specifically trying to avoid SawStop's numerous patents in an effort to maintain profits. There is no reason for an excessive "development" cost if the final patent is committed to public domain as they would literally have the plans to build them, and those costs were calculated prior to SawStops commitment to public domain the final patent. Seat belts, air bags, CFCs, and asbestos are also examples where these same types of cost claims were made. In fact, I'd welcome examples where Manufacturers didn't make claims about extraordinary costs whenever a new safety regulation was proposed. The proposal is for compliance after 36 months, not an overnight change that would require manufacturer's to pull saws from the shelves for fear of liability like you claim, nor would this change their liability. The radial arm saw example is thin at best. Emerson (Craftsman) didn't recall these saws simply because they were sued, nor would any company. The only reason to do so would be because their lawyers told them it would easily be shown that no attempt was made at safety and they would lose in court because of it. They electively chose a recall/refund to save money, AS AN ALTERNATIVE to providing a blade guard kit (which they also offered for purchase at a discount). Claiming there is a significant liability difference would be like claiming you have massive liability because your car doesn't have a backup camera now that it is a regulated for safety. As well, your claim that this would make it "illegal to sell saws without this technology" is not only devoid of fact, it is outright false. The proposal specifically states that it applies to saws MANUFACTURED after the date of effect, not sold or re-sold. With a number of hundred-billion to trillion dollar companies making even the slightest effort, a more affordable AIM is not just a possibility, but a likelihood in my opinion.

[@FJB2020]

The government needs to stay out of our business..

[@davidgoen3026]

@@FJB2020 bullshit. They are protecting the unknowledgeable from predatory people who don’t care if they are maiming and killing them. The companies could have bought the technology before Sawstop existed, but they had “acceptable losses.”

[@Coen80]

@9.30 min Yes, they can put a breaking system in a low-end saw, however, the saw might be destroyed. In that case they can sell a 'single use save'. So the saw stops the blade, but it might sustain catastrophic damage doing so. I can see people buying that, because you want your fingers to be saved once. It's not that you need the mechanism twice a week. (At least I hope not 🤣) For most woodworkers it will be a once-in-a-lifetime event that they need the 'stop'. So for a weekend woodwarrior like myself a saw that saves my fingers once is good enough. In the unlikely event that I needed the 'stop' I'll buy a new one, knowing that statistically i should be done cutting my fingers for the rest time. On top of that, by far and large the most injuries are sustained by PROFESSIONALS. So the risk for the amateur is already lower because of less time spend at the table and because they are less complacent. I think a single-save-SawStop would be a great idea.

[@KenLayfield]

I have taught wood shop in a high school for the past 20 years and the last 10 with a Sawstop table saw. I have never told the students about the technology. Why? Because safe procedures are the best way not to hurt yourself and secondly the students would have the false assumption that all tablesaws have this capability putting them at huge risk.

[@aaronpreston47]

Sawstop is like a seatbelt in a car, you need to operate the equipment safely and can’t just rely on a safety feature to protect you.

[@bobbygetsbanned6049]

Yeah the video of that guy grabbing the table saw blade without even thinking about it proves how complacent people will get.

[@brookswade5774]

That’s a pretty smart policy.

[@debluetailfly]

@@bobbygetsbanned6049 They never think electronics can fail.

[@zephyr1408]

Oh that nice ! However I am a full grown man , an experienced carpenter, and if I want a Saw Stop I can buy one ! If I do not want one the who in the hell is anyone else to tell me what to spend my money on ? I just hear a pile of lame excuses ! So I don’t cut my fingers off on the table saw ? Great ? How about my framing saw ? Miters saw? Saws- All ? And on and on! Buzz off and mind your own business democrats!

[@randyg5884]

I have been a hobby woodworker for 25 years. I practice all recommended safety procedures. Up until 4 years ago I had never had any type of table saw incident. I have owned a SawStop for around 10 years. I have triggered the brake twice. Once with a fishtailing tape measure, the other with my finger. During the finger incident I was using the guard. I was using a push stick. But I was holding the board against the fence with my left hand, letting go when I was within a couple inches of the guard. It was a repetitive cut (8 pieces) and I was tired as it was at the end of a long day in the shop. My concentration lapsed for a moment on the last rip cut, and I did not let go of the board with my left hand. I ran it under the guard into the blade. My hand was saved by the SawStop. Prior to this, if someone had told me that I could have done this, I would have said "no way". All of these self-confident posters who talk like nothing could ever happen to them are deluding themselves. No one who has ever cut themselves on a table saw would honestly criticize this technology and every single one of them would turn the clock back and buy a SawStop if they could.

[@FlyingAceAV8B]

Your reason is perfectly acceptable. However, they don’t care about your hand. They care about selling more expensive equipment. Just get the price down and I’m sure most people won’t have an issue with it.

[@sandmandave2008]

Once again, the user is at fault. Tired, end of day, repetitive cut. Should not have been cutting if tired. Should have been using a feather board, not your finger. Completely preventable if using proper procedure.

[@randyg5884]

@@sandmandave2008yes a feather board would have prevented it for sure. I bought a set of Jessem clear cut stock guides and try to use them as much as possible. But, I’m willing to admit that as a human, I am capable of making a mistake and am thankful for the SawStop technology. Engineered safety beats behavioural controls every time.

[@saiiiiiii1]

If they could go back in time, they would probably just not put their hand in the blade again and save money on the sawstop saw. 😂 Sorry I'm leaving😂

[@suprememasteroftheuniverse]

​@@saiiiiiii1ret rd

[@craigritchie8470]

My table saw still scares the crap out of me. I hope I never get over this fear as it forces me to respect the power that it has to rob me of fingers and hands or knock me unconscious with a kick back.

[@sailingeric]

I have a Sawstop and still respect it..I have had a kick back and learned to stay clear of the wood and also always assume that the brake may not work..I am sure it will but don't get careless with a table saw

[@gg-gn3re]

@@sailingericYea until the owner of sawstop willingly puts his hand into the blade I'd never trust it

[@e.t.preppin7084]

Exactly

[@docstevens5605]

@@gg-gn3re He did. You can find it on KZbin

[@bengurwell1500]

100%. I only use it when I absolutely have to. Table saws and routers both get a lot of respect from me.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

I remember shows like The New Yankee Workshop where you never saw a blade guard on the table saw, and Norm was _always_ pointing out, "I'm just doing this because the television people tell me it looks better on camera, I know what to do to stay safe, please don't remove the blade guard on your table saw." And honestly, I really miss his safety briefing spiel at the beginning of every episode, it really showed that he cared a great deal about shop worker safety. Home improvement and DIY shows since (including Ask This Old House) have only mentioned this as a footnote. You see them using table saws with no blade guards all the time, which I think contributes to their audience always taking the blade guard off. "Hey, these guys on TV look like they know what they're doing, and they never have guards on their saws."

[@cjboyo]

A weirdly core memory for me about shop safety was one of the members of the Extreme Makeover Home Edition cast injuring himself after removing the guard from a saw

[@Daemonworks]

Honestly, drives me nuts when folks don't do proper safety. I avoided a potentially fatal shop mishap as a teen by standing a step to the left of where some very fast metal decided to go when something failed in an unexpected way. Folks will be maimed or killed copying some twit in a show that isn't following best practice.

[@icarossavvides2641]

Yes I agree with your points also, what very little is mentioned about is ear protection. Noise is an insidious little devil that will gnaw away at your hearing until it's too late to do anything about it. I always use ear protection when using power tools. And don't forget the eye protecton!

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

​@@icarossavvides2641 I see people talking about ear pro and general PPE a whole lot more the last like 5-10 years in all sorts or trades and contexts.

[@thalastian_thundercleese]

People forget that the biggest risk factor for injury isn't inexperience - it's regular use. The more hours you spend using a power tool the more likely you are to have an injury caused by that. Same with driving. Plus the more familiar you are with a tool the more likely you are to get complacent. That's why so many car accidents happen close to home.

[@Alan.livingston]

This. I knew a guy who cut his thumb off while cutting framing pine with a circular saw. He's been a wood worker for many decades and it just took a few seconds of inattention while doing something he'd done a million times and it changed his life.

[@stupidas9466]

The reason that most (slightly more than 50%) car accidents happen "close to home" is because the vast majority of car trips are "close to home". "Close to home" is used in the transportation industry to mean within 25 miles of your residence. The average driver drives 29 miles per day. Do the math and look at the data and you'll find that over 85% of hours spent driving are within a 25 mile radius of one's home while only about 53% of accidents occur there. Looking at the statistics in context shows that when it comes to driving, familiarity with the roads lessens the chances of an accident. Hope this helps people think about how misuse of statistics can lead to wrong conclusions and suppositions, whether done so nefariously to push a narrative or, in this case, unwittingly and with good intentions.

[@thalastian_thundercleese]

@@stupidas9466 I stand corrected - thanks for pointing that out :)

[@MichaelParsons-lv8yh]

Experience is a good thing. I’m a safer driver now at 70 than I was at 35. I use all the safety features in my tools. But I’m most at risk when other people are around and I’m tired. Fatigue and distractions are dangerous in the extreme. Take breaks. Shoo people away and stay focused.

[@Georgiagreen317]

That's why the airlines are so comfortable with 1500-hour pilots. That's the equivalent experience of a young person driving 400 miles in a car. Those old grey-haired dudes are just too darn careless. The difference is the pilot has the necessary training and skill sets to do the job safely. Plus, and most importantly, a strong sense of responsibility. If he screws up, he goes down with the ship. As for driving, I traveled well over two million miles without a major accident. I know I'm not as skillful as I used to be, but I know I'm a lot more careful now. I've used all sorts of power tools and so far, have managed to keep all of my body parts. Some are a little bent and scratched but still there. Yes, complacency enters the picture but it's experience that keeps you safe. Once you cut off a finger it's experience that keeps you from doing it again. Some people learn by watching, others by doing. No matter how hard the politicians try, they can't outlaw carelessness and stupidity.

[@lakesidehog9525]

The number 1 reason accidents happen is… I’ve done it before and nothing happened……

[@markhamstra1083]

Closely followed by: I’ve done this a million times; I could do it in my sleep… or without paying attention to safety procedures.

[@michaelwarren2391]

YET!!!

[@zaxmaxlax]

number 3: "it was just a single beer"

[@earthwormscrawl]

Number 4: "But I've always used my table saw while naked."

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Just like not wearing condoms🙃

[@Th3Pr0digalS0n]

Ive been using table saws without guards or push sticks for years. After watching your channel I found the guard that came with my latest table and put it back on. And started using pushsticks... and ear and eye protection. Nobody ever trained me on proper use of woodworking equipment, so my fingers and eyes thank you. PS. Not long after I started being safer in the woodshop a friend who has been in construction for 30 years put his hand through a jobsite tablesaw. He simply wasn't paying attention while splitting a board, and split his finger too.

[@cbob3769]

I am still astounded thinking back on my youth and that I refused to wear safety glasses and earplugs because it wasn't manly. So stupid.

[@Chilangosta]

Underrated comment right here. Kudos for taking the initiative after watching the video and having the humility to make a change!

[@wannabecarguy]

If the black market can sell gas cans, it can sell table saws. Que the shop teacher from that movie "UHF".

[@mabriff]

Your future 10 digit self thanks you for finally getting on board with common sense safety measures!

[@petesmith8362]

Proper use of dangerous equipment or anything are and should be common sense, period!

[@jcm062946]

You finally convinced me. I dug out and reinstalled the the guard and riving knife for my Craftsman table saw. Its a pain to remove when needed, but I guess I live with I'll live with it to keep my fingers. Thanks for setting me straight.

[@thedave1771]

How many fingers do you really need anyway?

[@Studflucker]

It's much easier to re/install that guard with all your fingers.

[@horstmerkle9114]

Usability is an important point. My guard is a pain in the neck to install and gets in the way for many of my projects. On the other hand I am not a business and a few minutes invested in safety doesn’t impact my projects.

[@ganjalfcreamcorn8438]

damn you took the knife off too? living dangerously haha. ill leave the guard off still, but the knife is pretty useful.

[@wildman4642]

Three government won't stop with table saws.

[@dom11949]

table saw blades spinning at 3000 rpm will not be deterred or impressed by the manliness of the operator.

[@MrStrizver]

What about Chuck Norris manliness?

[@Galgamoth]

More like 4000 to 6000rpm

[@fogsmart]

I’d give you the finger for that comment buddy boy but, erm, it’s missing…

[@rhetorical1488]

@TopGBottomLobster darwin needs to weed out the weak dna as there is clearly too much of it around

[@DisrespectfulRob]

You could make a scarecrow out of that straw man. You must be proud; sweetie.

[@marcusburnside7736]

As a lawyer who has been following this story, this is by far the best summary/analysis I have seen.

[@carmatic]

as to the point about the blade guards, is it possible to legally require their usage? kind of like seatbelts in cars ...

[@myopinion69420]

@@carmatic the problem would be policing it. you already have people all over the world not following health and safety rules on jobsites, this will just be another area where they don't comply and get away with it (until an accident happens, then its a game of who can can the higher up's blame it on), there would be no way to police it in the home workshop where I suspect a lot of these incidents happen, the only real way to do it is some sort of 'dob in a buddy' system, which ultimately wont work.

[@j.r7872]

As a karate expert, I am currently undecided about this subject.

[@andrewrossetti6185]

Why aren't people suing car manufacturers because their 2010 doesn't have blind spot/auto emergency breaking, full side curtain air bags, etc.

[@jseevers81]

lol the government trying to take control of our hobbies now, it’s against the law to harm your self if you do you will suffer punishment!

[@mikeamboy7292]

I saw Roy Underhill using an old handsaw say "this saw also has flesh sensing technology."😂

[@curtisbme]

In that case it is the flesh having saw sensing technology.

[@staticmin3]

ahahahah ;-)

[@gregorymacneil2836]

Roy might have something different to say if he cut himself with a sharp Japanese saw. I saw one person cut almost completely through a thumb with one errand pull stroke when the saw jumped out of the kerf.

[@d.newsome6344]

Indeed. I did a number on my thumb with a flush-cutting Japanese saw. A razor blade with teeth. @@gregorymacneil2836

[@pgramsey1]

@@curtisbmeRight. I have a pretty good scar on my (non-dominant) thumb that I gave myself with a hand crosscut saw. But I still have a thumb, due to the saw-sensing technology.

[@1015cardinal]

After 40+ years of woodworking using an old table saw I still have all of my fingers and a brand new Sawstop.

[@Edwar3505]

Cool story

[@indigophox]

Yeah that's about where I'm at, never even come close to an accident BUT as soon as I can get one of these from my preferred brand I'm lined up to buy one. Or I just buy that track saw I have my eye on and throw out the table saw...

[@michaelhughes1740]

Well said!

[@Brian-bw3uu]

You'll be leaving Home Depot and you'll hear, "Psst. Hey. Want a table saw?"

[@MonkeyJedi99]

"No thanks mister. I need to save up for the Kevlar underwear to legally use my garden shovel."

[@Milspecpoptart]

You got anything thatll spin a 15 inch blade without a guard??? Asking for a friend...

[@topreview3791]

😂

[@answeris4217]

You'll need a license to buy a blade but you could still walk into a free market and walk out with a gun.

[@Pepe-dq2ib]

ill give Tyrone $50 to go steal me one of them saws at Home Depot.

[@bobthemagicmoose]

Former patent attorney here: my guess is that donating the patent to the public domain might be a strategic move for a couple reasons: suing a competitor to block them from implementing a safety feature has nasty pr consequences, patent litigation is extremely expensive and very slow - rarely worth it, it will be easier to get a regulation passed if it doesn’t require a license, and (here’s the kicker) sawstop is the only one that has a proven mechanism and I wouldn’t be surprised if others have to license from them any way (buying the module). 20 years from now I think we’ll have cheaper options that are safe, but it’s going to be tough for the first 5-10 years this is mandated.

[@SpartanORGN]

But here's the question, if the rule has a deadline to be enforced in 3 years or even less. Wouldn't any litigation that would delay that for other saw makers would mean for at least a period of time there would only be one saw manufacturer?

[@tom-840]

And can the CPSC or congress introduce regulations that basically hand one company a monopoly on a product? Also, if Bosch's design worked differently, how did they lose the patent infringement case? Capacitive sensing products are all over the place from cell phones to touch lamps, and it sounds as if the rest of Bosch's technology was different.

[@wdtaut5650]

Gass is a lawyer. What PR consequences?

[@PJRayment]

Sawstop have offered to work with the other manufacturers wanting to implement the technology. So does this indicate that Sawstop think that they can make more money on consulting fees than they would make by suing for patent infringement?

[@chrislindholm2255]

Legislators pass laws/regs all the time that make monopolies. As an example, inside the 1996 HIPPA Act the American Medical Association's (a private organization) terminology manual is required for billing. The AMA updates the manual twice a year and generates 10's of millions of dollars each year via sales.

[@wally1121]

You're absolutely right about how cumbersome it is to take the blade guard off and replace it. I bought a used cabinet saw from a cabinet shop 10 years ago. They had put a LOT of hours on it (still in perfect shape), but the blade guard was STILL in it's original packaging! They had NEVER used it. I bought some thumb bolts to replace the original hex bolts. It now takes 15 seconds to exchange the guard. I use it for every cut now, and I didn't with the saw I had before this one.

[@bratling]

One thing I love about my Metabo HPT jobsite saw is the blade guard is trivial to install or remove - it simply uses a spring-loaded peg to snap into position on the riving knife. It's easy to remove on the times I need to, but so easy to put back that I always do. This is how to do a blade guard!

[@ajlacostewm]

You don't have to screw the blade guard on the saw stop it has a lever you pull up to loosen and down to lock. And it flips up completely out of the way but we still leave it off , till OSHA shows up lol

[@middleagebrotips3454]

I hired a contractor once build a work bench and put an upside down circular saw with trigger cable ties in and make it act like a table saw

[@answeris4217]

Big comercial outfits use aftermarket guards that are suspended from above. It allows to make cuts that don't go all the way through the wood. I say 1 out of 10 cuts for me I don't go all the way through

[@justmusing2569]

The cost of my SawStop table saw is cheap compared to the cost (medical, physical, emotional) of any injury. I've never tripped mine, but having it there is like having seatbelts and airbags in your car. I agree with SN that using the safety features in the saw are a must. No accidents in over 5 years of use. Giving the technology away is SawStops way of paying it forward and it's priceless.

[@7StrokeRoll]

When I was ready to purchase my 'rest of my life' table saw, I didn't consider anything other than a SawStop. I have never tripped it, but I don't regret for even one second the extra expense for the peace of mind. It also happens to be a fantastic saw! 3hp PCS with 52"T-Glide fence and industrial mobile base.

[@garvinsimmons]

Yea it is a good technology but do not try to have a Monopoly over the market to force others to used your technology so that you alone must make all the Money thats very unfair and unscrupulous.

[@MikiCab1]

@@garvinsimmons Did you miss the part where the inventor went to every manufacturer of Table Saws to offer the technology and they turned them down? Also that they are putting their patents into public domain if this law goes through.

[@joefran619]

I agree, stupid people need to be protected.

[@MikiCab1]

@@joefran619 it has nothing to do with how smart you are. Accidents happen to everyone

[@mmoussa01]

The most shocking part about all this is that it seems to be easier to pass new government regulation than it is to get people to read and follow the safety instructions.

[@TM_Stone]

That's the problem with unelected bureaucracies such as the CPSC, EPA, FDA, etc. Unlike Congress with laws, bureaucracies implement regulations as they see fit. Way more dangerous and tyrannical.

[@JesterSpeed3]

@@TM_Stone Because the average person is stupid. I bet you argued against seat belts.

[@KeithCooper-Albuquerque]

@@TM_Stone I don't think it's the agencies. It's the lobbyists who manipulate the regulations for the sake of the manufacturers.

[@JesterSpeed3]

@@TM_Stone I bet you argued against seat belts. The average person has >100IQ and can't read above an 8th grade level.

[@JesterSpeed3]

​@@TM_Stone Average person has >100 IQ and can't read above an 8th grade level. You're the person who argues against seat belts.

[@jollyandwaylo]

I'm 68 years old and I remember when people laughed at me because I insisted on wearing eye and hearing protection. That has changed so maybe blade guards that are well designed can become an accepted device on tablesaws. No, I've never had a tablesaw accident but I almost did once.

[@terrydanks]

When Jacques Plante became the first hockey goalie to wear a mask, he was criticized for it. There are always those trying to hold back progress. Yes, safety costs.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

Safety glasses and ear-pro are probably the gold standard for _good safety;_ they are cheap to buy, cheap to use (if they turn out to be needed or not), basically don't get in the way of doing the work and are highly effective for a wide verity of risks. Safety devices like in the video on the other hand are expensive to install, expensive when triggered, can disable or destroy job critical equipment and even when they work exactly correctly only mitigate a very specific risk. On top of that, they are likely to trigger under conditions where they provide no safety advantage (e.g. try working outside on a rainy day). I suspect that more than half of them will be permanently disabled and within a few years there will be an arms race between labor and regulators around bypassing them and preventing people from doing that. Passive safety guards are kinda in the middle. A lot of them are just fine, but there are a bunch more that unavoidably significantly reduce the utility of the equipment. For example, try running a dado blade on a saw that has a guard. And if the guard can be removed, then everyone "knows" that a lot of people will never use it rendering it as something that is more to protect the manufacturer in court than the user in the field.

[@A3Kr0n]

You're a weenie for doing that 🙂

[@TimTrOn3000]

​@terrydanks I think when you get into a thing like 'hockey goalie' in an era where there's no face protection, so you take the roll with a liability aspect, and then there's a generation of goalies you're standing on the shoulders of..... The safety aspect looks like a bit of a cop out (or puss out if you wanna be intense). I can see a bunch of people who stepped up to take the risk looking down on a modern safety measure as a bit lame. "We all took the risk, if you're scared, sit on the bench and play third line defender.... watch a 'real man' play goal."

[@TimTrOn3000]

​@@benjaminshropshire2900well spoken.

[@surferdudemi]

Part of the cost built into the SawStop is that they will replace the cartridge (but not the blade) for free if it prevented an injury. You send them the cartridge and they will do an analysis to determine the cause. We've had several of them replaced.

[@rickybobby7276]

And if it doesn’t work do they send you another finger and sew it back on?

[@surferdudemi]

@@rickybobby7276 No, but why is that important? If you don't have a SawStop you have zero chance of avoiding injury. So you can choose 0% or some high probability that you won't be injured. Air bags and ABS aren't 100% effective either. Do you turn those off or buy vehicles without them because they aren't 100%? If you cut wet wood (which can trigger it) or use a hotdog to test it, they aren't going to send you a new cartridge. There is a disarm switch if you know you're going to be cutting something that will trigger it.

[@alaric_]

It's simply ludicrous to assume that the prices would be forever set in stone and no competition in the ultra-capitalist market would ever happen. Wtf... The price will absolutely come down in time, always has been with every single product and will continue to do so in the future. The video is just some stupid epic level scaremongering to kick SawStop and sell more fingers.. oh, wait. We can't buy those...

[@Springfield-eo8jl]

​@surferdudemi you're correct WE CAN CHOOSE. If this BS "law" passes we lose our RIGHT to choose. This places limits on our freedoms. I'll take freedom over the false sense of "safety" 100% of the time.

[@Springfield-eo8jl]

@seekingthelovethatgodmeans7648 sorry, I'm not in a cu|+......

[@Lappmogel]

Its ridiculous that someone can pick up a half a century old power tool at a flea market and then sue the manufacturer.

[@log4j736]

I mean, you can sue anyone for anything but I'm not sure how viable such a lawsuit would be. Just look at used cars. Newer ones have more safety technology but you don't really hear of a recall or lawsuit because some old car didn't have this auto braking or side air bags etc.

[@jaseswinconos]

The fact you can sue anyone for something you did is ludicrous... an amazing hiking trail was just backfilled near me because somebody sprained their ankle and sued the county or some sh!t... disgusting.

[@munkustrap1984]

It’s not just whether you win the suit. It’s the cost to defend against it. It’s the cost of settlements so you don’t have to defend against it. It doesn’t have to make sense. It just has to make money.

[@massmanute]

I worked in an industry that was obsessed with safety. One thing I learned while working in that industry is that safety measures that rely on human perfection will fail too often. Therefore, the answer to largely eliminating table saw accidents is NOT to rely on users to properly use their table saw, including proper use of blade guards, etc. Engineering solutions are almost always safer than solutions that rely on human perfection.

[@broca246]

Perfection is impossible.

[@massmanute]

@@broca246 I agree, and to emphasize my point, that's why relying on human perfection doesn't work as well as safety that relies on engineering solutions.

[@rickybobby7276]

What’s the total cost of all these safety mechanisms and is it so much that I can’t afford housing, quality food, medicine and doctors when I get sick? I think we have far exceeded that cost in safety and is why there are so many people below the poverty line.

[@GlutenEruption]

@@rickybobby7276 no - minor, incremental improvements in safety regulations as new technology becomes available can barely be differentiated from rounding error on the real causes. So many people are below the poverty line because the richest 1% of Americans have directly stolen $50 TRILLION from the bottom 99% since the end of wwii. Today 3 people hold more wealth than the bottom 50% of all Americans. Wealth inequality in America today is worse than its ever been since the fall of the Roman Empire. Corporate greed is out of control - fewer and fewer mega corporations own everything and they have been bragging on earnings calls about using the excuse of inflation to gouge customers blind, leading to all time record profits since 2020, and instead of using those profits to make better products, they've directly lined their pockets even further. And to top it off, they've spent millions lobbying politicians for decades to open up all manner of tax loopholes and lower the corporate tax rate and the top income tax bracket to all time lows, so they can keep even MORE of the money that should be going back to the American people. The solution isn't to allow those companies to get away with cheeping out on safety - we've already seen that allowing them to do that doesn't result in lower costs to consumers, just higher profits for them and worse products for us. The solution is putting back in place the regulations and policies that disincentivize blind greed and making them pay their share again.

[@3nertia]

@@broca246 Not impossible :)

[@michaelhaines4429]

Thank you, again, for bringing clarity to a complex conversation. I’m a novice woodworker but a very experienced firearms instructor. As with firearms and electricity, there is no “do-over” when it comes to safety mistakes. I’ve been ridiculed for wanting to retrofit an older Delta cabinet saw with a guard and splitter. But I won’t use it until I have the confidence I’m going to leave the table with all my digits.

[@climber950]

As a paramedic, I applaud your efforts. Some people think we love those types of calls. While the adrenaline rush can be exciting, seeing the carnage and trauma our fellow human beings experience is tragic. I’ve seen countless firearm incidents, from accidental discharges, unintentional shootings, suicide, and murder. There’s nothing wrong with excessive safety. Those who ridicule simply don’t understand the gravity of the situation.

[@ThylineTheGay]

@@climber950 yeah, i do not see a good argument for keeping things around that are only designed to kill can't really add safety features to a thing whose only purpose is death

[@Theranthrope]

​@@ThylineTheGay Your problem is that you DON'T know what the actual arguments are and don't want to learn. Your ignorance is a "you" problem.

[@jmackmcneill]

​@@Theranthrope Lol, the murder machine community consists of nothing but repeating the dumbest possible arguments imaginable. Thinking those arguments are rational is the problem.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

​@@climber950yes, there can be something wrong with "excessive' safety. We take risks of all sorts everyday.

[@johnoconnor5581]

I grew up learning to cut wood on a radial arm saw so when I was finally able to set up my own shop, that is what I bought. I can still remember from 45 years ago when the spinning blade broke off a piece of a board and threw it past me with such force that it dented the wooden garage door 15 feet away. I hate to think if it had hit me. As I eventually began to appreciate that most woodworkers used table saws, I bought one and sold the radial arm saw. Virtually all of the cabinet shop pros and hobby woodworkers I knew never used blade guards, so I never used mine, which also meant I had no splitter or riving knife when cutting. About 2 years ago, after watching KZbin videos (including several of yours on saw safety), I purchased a really nice sturdy guard from Shark Guard that was custom designed for my older Craftsman saw. It was not cheap at about $220 but it was a nice upgrade to an otherwise solid older saw. There is slightly more setup time when using a guard, but the reduced risk of accident is worth the extra time invested.

[@kperellie]

The one and only time I ever had a kickback was about 30-some-odd years ago. I was ripping a short length of a 2x4, about 3' long at a job site on a Craftsman TS. To this day I don't know what caused it, but it came back and hit me at the base of my Sternum. I was sore for a day and had a black and blue, but otherwise no other damage. I felt lucky.

[@awboat]

I got my dads old montgomery ward radial arm saw when he died. I used if for quite a few years but scared the shit out of me. I hated to rip with it. As soon as I could afford a table saw, and a place to put it, I got one. At the same time I got a good sliding miter saw. 30 years later still using both. I am still using the table from the radial arm too.

[@johnoconnor5581]

HaHa, we must have been the only two people in the US that owned Montgomery Ward radial arm saws. I think I picked mine up for about $50 but had to have the motor rewound. The one interesting thing about mine was that on the opposite side of the motor it had two threaded spindles, one turning at the same rpm as the blade rpm and a second one that must have run through a small gearbox because it turned at a much higher speed, fast enough for routing.

[@kristopherfrootloops6714]

My grandpa, dad, and uncle had a monkey ward radial arm saw in the early 90s. But they also had table saws without covers or riving knifes. I enjoyed cross cuts with radials and ripping with table saw. I was taught to respect them and stand to the fence side for if it throws it back. Now that there's KZbin and actually seeing what those machines can do when something goes wrong it's kind of scary. Now I use 6", and 23" bandsaws for slabbing and ripping. Sliding Crosscut mitersaw, and 3hp tablesaw with dust cover/ guard for big sheets with a full 4'x8' catch table. Knowing what to expect and how to minimize any injury is a big step. Plus having first aid kit with a tourniquet . Lol

[@fj7509]

The generosity of the CEO has sealed my decision in purchasing a SawStop and supporting his company. His original idea was turned down, and he still will plan on opening up the license rather than charging for the license. That’s a real one right there.

[@bjangles8718]

To be clear, his offer explicitly states, it only stands IF the rule is passed. That is not the same thing as open sourcing his technology. It is not altruistic at all. If the rule is passed, any company that wants to sell a saw will have to decide to invest the R&D into the technology OR licencing it from him. Most will no doubt license. R&D is expensive and full of liability. Especially if Bosch's was faulty. This prevents the customer blowback against his company from the rule and still makes him insanely rich. I'm surprised nubs can see everything so clearly and miss this huge fact.

[@H0kieJoe]

Congratulations, you paid too much for a saw.

[@BlankJonahM]

The current CEO is not the inventor. The inventor, Steve Gass, after being turned down by major manufacturers, filed a lawsuit against every powertool company you've ever heard of for conspiracy. It was thrown out, so he went on to start his own line. In his free time, he served as a professional witness to tablesaw injury lawsuits, repeatedly testifying that his technology could be integrated into (then) modern job site saws without substantially increasing product weight or price. Steve Gass is a shitty person. Good on his CEO for making the patent public if regulations pass.

[@janitorizamped]

​@@BlankJonahMhow does that make him a shitty person, he's not wrong.

[@theb1rd]

One way or another, he'll make a ton of money if this passes. I guarantee it. That's why he made it conditional.

[@GrayRaceCat]

As Norm Abram says, "Before we get started I'd like to take a moment to talk about shop safety. Be sure to read, understand and follow all the safety rules that come with your power tools. Knowing how to use your power tools PROPERLY will greatly reduce the risk of personal injury. And remember this. There is no other more important safety rule than to wear THESE, safety glasses, and also HEARING protection when necessary."

[@davido856]

He hardly ever used a blade guard and I don’t believe that those glasses he wore were safety glasses. Norm is responsible for my passion of woodworking.

[@GrayRaceCat]

@@davido856 I recall Norm and Russ Morash covering the subject in an interview. They felt that seeing the blade was integral to the audience's understanding of what Norm was doing. Ditto, I've been watching TOH (and later NYW and ATOH) since I first discovered it in the early 80s.

[@felderup]

@@davido856 head on down to the optician, there's glasses that look EXACTLY like regular ones, except bigger, so you look like you're a poor kid in the 80's, safety lenses n all. so, is it odd fashion sense, is a home perm kit next, or is it safety glasses?

[@davido856]

@@GrayRaceCat Yes, I have heard that removing the guard allowed the viewer better shots of the instruction, but it had an unconscious affect on the watcher that is was okay to use the saw with guards removed. Truthfully they are a pain in the neck. I watched New Yankee Workshop and Crockett ‘s Victory Garden on WGBH channel 2 from Boston every Saturday. That was long before KZbin. It was great stuff and I learned a lot.

[@mandanna09]

Norm didnt wear ear protection until someone pointed that out

[@krbkrbkrbkrbkrb]

I agree with everything you say in the video, which is why I had to laugh out loud when we got to the ad at the end with all those shots of the high quality saw blades and not a single blade guard in sight.

[@thomream1888]

But you do understand they remove those guards to aid in the filming of the saw, right? I know there's a humor aspect, but don't ever forget the govt is trying to take away YOUR right to determine you own risk tolerances. It's way past time to tell the Local, State and Federal clown enough. Work smart, know the value of all ten fingers, and work accordingly. YOUR safety is YOUR job, not some pencil-whipping moron in an taxpayer-funded office.

[@kelseyharris892]

Came here to say this 😂

[@charleshultquist9233]

At least the riving knife was mounted.

[@tau65]

I was going to make the same comment 😄

[@TrevorDennis100]

Who said American's can't do irony? 😉

[@zerofiz]

I love your takes on these kinds of things. Always to the point and well thought out, with data to back it up. A breathe of fresh air to the woodworking KZbin community.

[@Tgrab39]

important and necessary conversation for all skill levels of wood workers! Thank you for taking the time to cover this topic!

[@did_I_hurt_you_feefees]

No, government regulations making things inaccessible is NOT a conversation we need to have. I'm an adult and if I choose to do something dangerous I've chosen to accept the risks. I don't need big daddy government telling me I can't go outside because it's too cold (so to speak).

[@BryanTorok]

No matter how good you are at what you do, no matter how many hours or years of experience you have, it only takes once and less than one second of being distracted or inattentive to have a serious accident. I've seen it happen and had an "oh shoot" moment where I'm just lucky nobody was hurt, but it scared the crap out of me.

[@michaelzimmerman635]

😂 I love it! After a speech on the necessity of blade guards, a cut to an ad on for a blade showing a cut on a saw without a guard.

[@hoocli]

Literally came here to say this

[@FastInfoGov]

Jump to the comments to find who would say it first!

[@StumpyNubs]

When I spoke about blade guards I indicated that there are times when they must be removed. (I specifically called on manufacturers to make them easy to take off and put back on again.) The ad at the end was one of those times. I removed my guard because I was showing specific footage of the blade that would otherwise be hidden beneath it. (I was still taking several other precautions, including using a pusher, an extended fence and a riving knife.) I know some folks want to make an issue of that, because that's what people do on the internet. This channel is at the absolute forefront in encouraging blade guard use whenever possible, and I use it for almost every cut I make.

[@carmatic]

yeah i was thinking, something doesnt look quite right in that segment ...

[@Steve765]

I'm sorry but if you need to remove a guard to carry out a task then maybe you're using the wrong machine.

[@m2useinu]

I've been using table saws for almost 30 years and have not cut myself. Table saws scare the crap out of me every cut I make. I recommend you understand that these things will hurt you fast and to be careful

[@2pugman]

After 25 years of using my 10" table saw, one day I got careless and two fingers on my left hand got "knicked". There was a hand surgeon on duty at the hospital and he repaired the damage. Then there was the two months of rehab to get those two fingers functioning properly. I believe the total cost was over 10K. Fine today.

[@kellyvcraig]

50 years plus. However, I saw how stupid push sticks were at the get go (just holding down the wood clear at the back and ignoring the part where the blade is trying to lift the wood) and created my own. Today, we call them push shoes. They are game changers. Sadly, the designers of table saws don't always catch lessons from other things. Just as we figured out console stereos were inferior to component systems, tables saws that used splitters separate from blade guards are superior. Those splitters, one I bought an after market one, changed the game as much as the shoes did.

[@moonman9j9]

I think you hit on something pretty important. You SHOULD have a healthy fear of your table saw. It's the most dangerous tool you own. You should be afraid for your fingers on every cut thereby sharpening your focus on the task at hand.

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

fear and respect are the great tools for keeping your fingers.

[@morzinbo]

That's called respecting the tool.

[@casterman2]

I have a 14” Delta Milwaukee 5 hp table saw made in the late 40’s. The torque on this saw is incredible. 3 belts. When I first restored it I tried running it with the guard off. I wanted to push the leading edge of the board up. It was quite scary. Then I realized the guard was an integral part to cutting. Its split shroud was made from magnesium. The riving assembly was substantially bolted to the saw. There was no other conclusion to draw than to safely run wood, the guard was a necessity. You’re right on target Mr. Nubs!

[@EdwardT9]

I have an old Beaver table saw, 3200, where the guard was also a riving knife, it even tilted with the blade. With the blade guard on it won’t kickback easily. Made in the 1950s.

[@I..cast..fireball]

We didn't recall all cars without backup cameras when they became mandatory for new cars....... This will indeed make new cheap saws disappear, but I don't see this having an effect on old saws legally, tho they will go up in price.

[@Summitperry]

I agree. There’s probably twenty craftsman RAS on market place by me right now. He must not be looking to hard didn’t drive up the price either.

[@ehisey]

It well, just not on the sales. The impact will be on commercial uses of the old saws. Insurance premiums will spike for using non braking saws, ease of sueing for a tablesaw related injure at work will be higher for old tech saws, that sort of thing.

[@davidmacke6718]

The only example I can think of is the sliding drop side cribs. My understanding is you can’t sell or even gift those cribs. The main difference though is banning used saws without this technology would cause the used market to evaporate overnight. That wasn’t the case with the cribs.

[@SpartanORGN]

What % of the value of the car did it raise? Consumers didn't notice the difference. This will be a 100-200% increase in price for the most common type of table saw.

[@I..cast..fireball]

@@SpartanORGN my comment was about improvements not usually causing recalls of the old ones.

[@makerspace533]

One problem with blade guards is that they can not be used with a sled. Sleds are much safer than the miter gauges that come with the saw. The best thing that ever happened to tablesaws was the riving knife. What I think will happen is that rather than using the inexpensive table-top saws, people will be adapting circle saws to those tiny tables. No riving knife, and a much more dangerous machine.

[@1steelcobra]

That's what those table-top saws replaced.

[@TheDesertRat31]

You can build a guard feature for a crosscut sled. There is no need to go without a guard. Yes, some cuts have to have the guard removed, but it's still worth utilizing one every time it's possible.

[@BGraves]

I built many saw sleds as a manufacturing engineer that work with blade guards. I'm actually having a hard time understanding why it would prevent you from making sleds

[@YaaLFH]

Sleds are a poor man's sliding tables, trying to fix the effect not the cause of the problem.

[@1steelcobra]

@@YaaLFHNope, a sled is also a zero-clearance cutting base, which is also far better for small parts and precision cutting.

[@RandomTorok]

Where I live here in Canada the government has mandated that all schools must use sawstop saws. That includes K- 12 and post secondary education.

[@yevrahhipstar3902]

Yep! Gotta stop all those tablesaw-related injuries the kindergartners are sustaining...

[@drcornelius8275]

Canada is like having a second mother.....

[@GMC-qo9xi]

@@drcornelius8275 das Mutterland

[@Theranthrope]

This is the same Canada which is "prescribing" MAID for boredom. Canada is not a serious country. (Because it's a commonwealth.)

[@evanbarnes9984]

​@@yevrahhipstar3902until last year I taught shop and math at a K-12 school, and yes, we did use a Sawstop. Of course kindergarteners don't use the table saw, but I would use it with kids down to about 6th grade. We never had an injury! However, the Sawstop saved my coworker's thumb. He was doing some cuts after hours, momentarily stopped paying attention, and put his thumb right into the blade. It worked great! And yes, he had taken the guard off

[@jon4715]

Wait…car companies are continually adding new safety features and aren’t getting sued for old cars not having them. How does this track at all?

[@mrfirestop415]

And you can still resell them! Can you imagine having a cabinet shop with several large imported sliding table saws that your liability insurance company will no longer cover accidents on, and you can't sell. I'm at a loss at how some of these consumer protection laws are Constitutional, but banning a device that turns a firearm into a machine gun is unConstitutional. Neither track. At all.

[@VE3BF]

$400 more on an entry level saw? I think a US hospital visit costs more than that. When I bought my table saw I was considering many brands the SawStop was $2000 more than the others in that catagory and I went with the SawStop. One finger alone is worth more than $2000 to me.

[@OtakuNoShitpost]

So then if the minimum price is $10,000 that'd also be good with you? $20? $50? $100,000? After all, safety is priceless, so how dare anyone try to skimp on safety just because they can't afford a several thousand dollar saw

[@gregorymacneil2836]

I find it interesting that everyone equates the cost difference as being the price of safety. Saw Stop make a very high quality tool with excellent machining and finish. That level of quality is also part of the cost difference. I grew up with Delta and own mint condition 1960 and 1980 Unisaws - neither have the quality of the Saw Stop. When you look at the whole Saw Stop package it is very good value for the money.

[@lovelessk999]

What an entitled and self absorbed way of looking at things. Take a break from beating your kids and think before you comment. This is nanny state crap that forces smaller users out of the market. Pound sand.

[@HopeisAnger]

You are why I can't afford the tools to start my own business. Enemy of liberty.

[@RICDirector]

So should saws be more expensive, or should ER visits be cheaper...?

[@kenf5779]

“Giving up their monopoly on saws that won’t cut hotdogs” 😂

[@klwatklwat5098]

In the 70s I ran my left hand through a guardless table saw due to the shop Forman saying guards just get in the way. I learned my lesson the hard way and have never again used mine without the guard. While SawStop is an innovative tool. I’ll just keep using a guard and never trust in technology to always solve what common sense can Lucky for me all fingers are still there

[@tianyi05]

The guard at one time was NEW technology, but you swear by it.

[@xe-wf5iv]

​@@tianyi05 Sure? but the guard is a physical block that can't fail. It is not at all comparable to an electronic sensor system that can and will fail. The fact both can be technically called technology doesn't make them equal.

[@King-Kazma]

@@xe-wf5iv It is like removing bumpers/crumple zones because your car has airbags.

[@bobbycrosby9765]

@@King-Kazma it's like choosing not to buy a car with blind spot assistance. There's all sorts of analogies we could make whatever point we want.

[@King-Kazma]

@@bobbycrosby9765 Not really. ESC is an active safety device. Once it detects that conditions are met, it intervenes, and cannot be overridden. If it detects that the car is sideways, and still moving fast, and the steering is trying to correct, it will fire individual brakes to bring the car into line. Worst case, it will use brakes and throttle try to slow/stop the car dynamically and/or prevent rollover. Blind spot detection is a passive warning, and can be overridden. Saw guards and most workplace safety equipment (earmuffs etc) are also passive. Saw stop is definitely an active safety intervention.

[@pentearmacaco]

Thank you for education people on proper use. I built my first table saw from a kit over 50 years ago. I never used a riving knife or guard until I started making zero clearance inserts with wooden Riving knives. I also made a great outfeed table that can swing out of the way. These changed the safety whole game on my Rockwell saw. In addition, I never get my hands closer than 6 inches without a feather board and push stick. They have plenty of cuts on them. One of the worst problems I see are how-to-make videos online that show dangerous techniques, partially to elicit likes. They give newbies a false sense of security and possibly lost limbs. Unfortunately, I see the same with other tools like band saws, jointers, lathes, etc, that have no "the flesh sensing". Thank you for your great work on proper education.

[@kendallwhitlatch9603]

I adopt the same philosophy with table saws as I do motorcycles: It's not a matter of IF there's a problem but when and how it will occur. Plan accordingly.

[@riodward]

Excellent piece. "Sharp teeth passing a single point thousands of times a second, with substantial mass behind them are dangerous. That is why these machines work.so well on wood and metal. And they don't care if it is pine, maple or your hand. There are no do overs. And saying you are sorry, or you didn't mean to fixes nothing." (Mr Dugger, shop teacher) I am old enough to have had the good fortune of shop class in school.

[@drewscreen]

I learned how to use a table saw on a SawStop in 2008, and it was the only type of saw I used for the next 5 years. Then I switched to a job that had no saw but badly needed one, so a coworker brought in his dad's ancient Craftsman that had absolutely no safetys, and an exposed belt -- like something you'd expect to see in a developing country or macho workshop. There was no space on the chassis to add a riving knife behind the blade, so I had to settle with an improvised splitter mounted to the zero clearance insert. I dreaded using that saw, but I never had a scare with it because I was super focused every time I used it. It was terrifying and I respected it. In that same period, a talented professional cabinetry carpenter who sometimes did work at our location got put into the hospital with broken ribs and perferated stomach after a kickback incident on a late model DeWalt worksite saw -- with all the safetys removed. The best safety feature is the one between your ears.

[@JackPS9]

Yea going from a sawstop to an older no safety feature saw for the first time would be like walking into a horror movie.

[@64puma64]

…which may be the best explanation for a lot of the injuries.

[@chewyfingers1288]

😂I’ve got that old saw out in my garage now from a local auction. Haven’t ever even fired it up. Yeah. I’m a beginner with all ten digits and plan to keep it that way so I bought the dewalt . And haven’t fired it up either. But will this summer with all safety features engaged. I didn’t make it 55 yrs just to get schmucked up at the back end of life!

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

@@chewyfingers1288 good plan.

[@arglefargle123]

"the best safety feature is the one between your ears" and thus, 40,000 injuries per year. it's impossible to defeat stupidity. not by education, not by incentives, not by regulation can it be done.

[@crazyguy32100]

I've used a SawStop numerous times before, I find it's a great system. As you said though, the big thing is a blade guard and riving knife. Flesh sensing technology isn't going to help if that workpiece kicks, punches you in the gut and causes internal bleeding

[@stevepreskitt283]

I agree that a riving knife and guard are important, but I think it'd be fairly easy to implement a kickback-sensing system using either contact rotary encoders or a sensor similar to what optical mice use. The fastest mice scan their sensors around 8,000 times per second, which would allow detection of a kickback before the saw blade could rotate more than about 3 degrees, assuming a 4,000 rpm motor. Once a kick is detected, the AIM mechanism could be triggered, stopping the blade and limiting the energy imparted to the workpiece. The downside is that any detected kick would trash the AIM module and blade, meaning you get to shell out another $100+ every time it happens, so false positives could be a problem.

[@steveh8724]

@@stevepreskitt283 I think Festool already does a form of this with their newer track saws.

[@johnterdik4707]

Great video!!!! I'm one of those guys that got hurt because my saw didn't have a riving knife. I was in my shop very late, making my last cut on 1/4" plywood. I was rather tired and should have stopped a few cuts earlier, but I wanted to finish the cutting phase of the project, so I pressed on. I had finished the cut, but failed to clear the blade with the wood. In my mind, I started to lift my left hand to power off the saw. Unknowingly, at the same time, my right hand ever so slightly rotated counter clockwise and I felt a super sharp pain in my left wrist. The hands had moved mear fractions of an inch and the pain was intense!. The saw had grabbed the piece of wood, about 12" square, creating the classic "C" and slammed in to my left wrist. Before I could collect my senses, the affected area on my wrist started to swell and was about the size of a silver dollar and a few fractions high. I powered off the saw, went into my house, using a zip lock bag I created an ice pack and let it set for at least 30 minutes after realizing the wrist had not been broken. Very shortly after that, I upgraded the saw with a riving knife. The mfg of the saw actually sold the saw in Europe with the riving, but it was necessary for me to get a residence of Europe to purchase to parts and ship them to me. I did contact the mfg and questioned why they didn't sell the saw in the USA with the riving knife. I was told that to sell the saw in the USA, it would require extensive testing to get USA approval because the authorities would not accept the approval granted by the European authorities. Because I plan to continue my woodworking hobby until I'm forced to stop, at 82 years of age, I'm upgrading to a SawStop. Yes, it is expensive, but for me, it is worth it.

[@jeffdege4786]

We have a Saw Stop cabinet saw in our Maker Space. I won't argue one way or another about what decision anyone else might make, but for a saw that will be used by some random group of semi-trained people, I'd not go without a flesh sensing brake. We have a "wall of shame" where we display all of the locked up blades and brakes. Some of them may have been false positives - where the brake triggered due to material inside the wood, etc. But not all of them. (And even with the brakes table saws are still dangerous.)

[@simonmountford4291]

Question 🙋‍♂️ how much money does it cost you to replace all the bits 🔩 🪚 every time 🕰️ it’s triggered. Genuine question from a woodworking newbie who is two years into his woodworking hobby and 18 months with a low price bench top tablesaw…🤓👍

[@deathsyth27]

@@simonmountford4291 The brake is $140 in Canada, probably around $100 US plus however much your blade costs.

[@karlrovey]

​@@simonmountford4291A lot less than the ER bill works have been.

[@aetorres7422]

It still doesn't make sense cuz you can still operate the saw with no brake once it trips🎉

[@jeffdege4786]

@@aetorres7422 I don't see how. The action of the brake in pulling the blade into the table destroys the blade and ruins the brake.

[@bluewren65]

The objection to the saw stop mechanism is that you have to replace the whole thing once it triggers. Where the Bosch Reaxx saw was superior was that if it was triggered you only had to reset it and you were off again. I wish I'd bought one when they were available. I hope Bosch redevelop it soon. I always shudder when I see American youtubers using their table saws without blade guards.

[@theScamBKLYN]

Apparently it had issues with mobile phone interference. I'm assuming this is one of the reasons it never came back to the market.

[@BakerGlare]

​@@theScamBKLYNTurn your phone to saw safe mode now... 😂

[@tiladx]

Here's the rub - the patent that Saw Stop is willing to "dedicate to the public" deals with capacitive detection. That special technology is how the touchscreen on your phones and tablets work. That is a patent that never should have been granted given how ubiquitous capacitive detection is in our daily lives.

[@a9ball1]

I don't know if it's true but I heard that the React saws are for sale in Europe or England. Don't know if it's true.

[@theScamBKLYN]

@@a9ball1 Fine Woodworking reported it last month as part of their coverage on this table saw stuff.

[@peternatoli2555]

Way to go, Stumpy! Thank you once again for a well thought out and presented youtube. In fact, I believe you have hit on the NUMBER ONE requirement our world governments need to address in the whole education of our young. We need to empower them to think for themselves, to find out for themselves who they are first. The way to do this is by using the genuine interrogative approach, to teach them that it's OK to be ASCERTIVE, not aggressively or passively, but with respect to the other person. In the words of Dr Robert H Schuller, we people need to ascert ourselves in a friendly, fair and frank manner. Hopefully then we will have a world of fully actualised, happy, successful and SAFE PEOPLE.

[@colinleslie2458]

As always, you have produced a very well-articulated and much appreciated video. I will admit that I feel torn on some of these issues. I did have a table saw accident about 13 years ago. Fortunately, I was only a 3-hour helicopter flight ($30k) from one of the premier microsurgery clinics in the country ($25k) and happened to be covered under good insurance so that it only ended up cost $3k out of pocket. My hand is 98% functional and I'm incredibly grateful. I did make some poor decisions with the cut that I was making. I had been woodworking for at least a decade. It might be surprising to some that I did not buy a saw stop at that point. To your point, I have since employed much better safety practices and have absolutely made a point to educate myself on proper table saw use, and when another tool is safer and more appropriate. I also happen to work in a social science field and frequently get posed with the proposition of more education to change human behavior. The thing about education is that the person has to be motivated, and motivation is not as easy to come by as we might like to believe. Education is one of the most frequently cited and least effective mechanisms for incentivizing behavior change, because it is typically implemented without consideration for why anyone would be incentivized to educate themselves. Until you have an injury, the possibility of an injury is functionally hypothetical. You did mention some points about existing technologies that I absolutely agree with. Poorly constructed riving knives and blade guards that are difficult to install and remove are absolutely a disincentive to using those safety features. It would be nice if we could write consumer safety guidelines and requirements that say don't build a s***** product that people are going to use in ways that are incorrect because you've made it so damn difficult. I'm not sure how that would be written in practice, but that is the point you are getting at. At the end of the day, I'm still torn. I feel like I have learned proper table saw techniques. That said, I have also resolved to buy a saw stop or something with equivalent safety features (should it become available) before I ever let my kids near a table saw, no matter how closely I'm supervising and teaching them. At the end of the day, I can see a little bit of both arguments. And to one of your hypothetical points, I do have a hesitancy to let anybody but myself use my table saw because I just can't know what their experience, knowledge, and practices are.

[@TheAyrCaveShop]

Thanks for sharing

[@tomg6214]

I have been a carpenter and woodworker for 45 years, the 4th generation in my family. I had a Jet table saw that I inherited from my father. When I replaced it, I bought a SawStop and have had it for years!! The SawStop is a great table saw and I appreciate that it has a safety device that I have never had activate - I treat and respect the SawStop as if it were the old Jet I learned on, but I and my wife are glad to have some insurance just in case!!

[@d.newsome6344]

Your comment makes me wonder... will people become numb to the dangers of a table saw if they assume that all table saws have the SawStop system on it? Will they start being careless and quit using feather boards, push sticks, etc. I feel a similar thing has happened with lane assist systems on cars. People no longer need to steer accurately... no longer need to pay attention. They just react to beeps and nudges like a Pavlovian dog. Paying attention is perhaps the most versatile safety feature.

[@geneticdisorder1900]

Can I have your Jet table saw ?? 😂😂 I would take it in a heartbeat, respect the blade, keep the fingers away !

[@steveh8724]

@@geneticdisorder1900 Perhaps you missed the words "had" and "replaced"? I think it's long gone. But there are plenty of others out there. And if/when active safety measures are mandated, there will be LOTS more available! Just remember, each of the average of 10 woodworkers PER DAY who suffer tablesaw-related amputation hand injuries also respected the blade and most had NEVER experienced a tablesaw related injury after days to decades of tablesaw use.

[@skipwilson4792]

If I were to accidentally set off a saw stop, I would still require a trip to the ER to restart my heart.......also trip to the laundry.😃

[@tomg6214]

@@d.newsome6344 I think it all depends on how we teach “shop” and how to properly use and respect tools. Also, personal responsibility has a lot to do with it as well and that needs to be taught to everyone, but I fear that it is not anymore - just look at how some people drive and I think they all had to take drivers ed.

[@barts208]

When I first started wood working, I paid the extra money for a Saw Stop because a very minor injury was more expensive than the price of the Saw Stop vs cheap saw and medical bills. I know not everyone can make that choice but for me it was worth it.

[@REDMAN298]

What`s a finger worth to you? People need to strongly consider safety. Remember, there are no atheists on a crashing airplane.

[@liquidrockaquatics3900]

All someone has to do is get into the blade one time to turn on that light 💡 bulb. I got bit and put a tooth through my thumb when a gust of wind threw sawdust into my eyes around my safety glasses. I jerked my left hand up to my face and BAM! I had swung my arm across the blade. I was off to the left side and using a push stick, but instinctive reaction happened before I realized it. It felt like my arm got hit with a steel rod; everything healed but there is still nerve damage on the top of my thumb.

[@andy.puempel]

A very thoughtful discussion on the topic. Always enjoy your videos. Thanks for putting this together and sharing.

[@BigBisalreadytaken]

In 1971 we had a 24" radial arm saw to cut the beams for our house. That thing was massive. I cannot imagine not having one in a word working shop!

[@mastpg]

Uhhh...from what you wrote, it would seem you think any woodworking shop should have a 24" radial arm saw. Uhhh, I don't think they're that common in home shops.

[@billoxley5315]

I don't have a 24, but do have a 16 inch Dewalt radial arm with a 7-1/2 hp motor in my shop. And yes , the 24 inch are scary to operate.

[@Jobbyhoyker]

As someone who almost lost their ring finger on a table saw I can say yes if I had the guard on I would have avoided that injury.

[@thegardenofeatin5965]

Without being too graphic, how did you lose your ring finger and none of the others?

[@Jobbyhoyker]

@@thegardenofeatin5965 so I was making a cut turn off the saw and went to move a piece of wood by the blade and nicked my middle finger and badly cut my ring finger. i was really lucky that I had turn the saw off as it was only spinning down otherwise i would have lost fingers . I Still have no feeling in said finger above the cut.

[@ChuckNorris-yo3hu]

I would like to add that a push stick or a sacrificial push stick is essential for me on my table saw and I would never remove the riving knife….and as with knives in general a dull knife is more likely to cause an injury then a sharp one so keep a sharp blade on your table saw at all times

[@brucejohnson1264]

You generally have to remove it if you want to cut a dado, or any non-through cut.

[@YellowDogWelding]

If you really believe that dull knifes cause more injuries than shapr knifes you haven't spent a lot of time with knifes. Old wife's tale that some knife ignorant person came up with.

[@a9ball1]

My riving knife will work with shallow cuts if I don't use dado blades. If a person really wanted to they could get a second riving knife and make it shorter for smaller diameter blades.

[@seanlarabee6300]

@@YellowDogWelding Disagree with your disagree. Dull knife takes more force to do the job. More pressure leads to less control and more chances of a slip that overshoots into flesh when something finally gives. Dull knife leads to frustration. Frustration leads to poor choices. Dull knife is a sign of someone not taking caring of their tools. Someone not taking care of their tools is likely less experienced and more prone to having poor technique and safety habits.

[@YellowDogWelding]

@@seanlarabee6300 No worries. I've sat around many a campfire and such and asked the question at those types of activities as a "project" of sorts for many years. Also, in my 70 years I have had many more serious injuries with sharp knifes than dull. My butter knife injuries have been few.

[@66dunoon69]

I'm living proof of how well SawStop works I was lab tech at a local university I was in charge of a full woodworking shop and a well equipped machine shop. One my tasks was making anything the prof needed. We had moved the shops to a different bldg and they bought a SawStop which was a nice heavy table saw. Sometimes students would use the equipment if they were working on a project, always supervised. Well I was moved out of my job as it was upgraded and I was no longer qualified. But, different profs would ask if I would work on something for them for a few weeks in the summer. I was making strips of wood 1/2X1/4x 12" long or longer. I had made about 200 of these strips and wasn't paying enough attention and my finger just touched the blade the bang startled me I didn't even realize I had touched the blade, I receive a slight scratch didn't even draw blood. It's kinda expensive to get it going again. Ya need a new blade and module which is where the brains and the brake are.

[@hyperion112]

A guy I used to work for cut off three fingers on a table saw when he was about 60 years old and retired. During his professional career he was head cabinet maker for the Super 8 hotel chain and had made tens of thousands of cabinets using his table saws. After that accident he replaced every table saw with a SawStop saw, and I took his advice and bough one for myself too. The technology has saved my brothers fingers twice, I with never use a table saw without it, it's too easy to turn a temporary mistake into a permeant disability.

[@Jaze2022]

What about push sticks without guard? Is that sufficiently safe

[@diggingupnorth3453]

huh. I respect your decision. I have been a carpenter for almost 20 yrs and always treat the saws with respect. No acidents

[@hyperion112]

@@diggingupnorth3453 that was what my boss always said too took him about 40 years of daily use before he was careless once. I think it's possible to be very safe with a table saw don't get me wrong, but I still like the insurance policy.

[@chrisfoxwell4128]

You cover yourself in bubble wrap, too?

[@eclark9965]

@@Jaze2022yep

[@BigMikeECV]

Reminds me of when I entered the building trades back in the '70s. Every new power tool such as sawzall, drill, etc., came with a grounded power cord. At the time, grounded receptacles were not ubiquitous, so it was common to rip the grounding prong out of the plug of our new tool if we wanted to get any work done. In the future, I guess I'll just have to find other ways to cut my hot dogs.

[@danp6897]

For the record, you can actually disable the sawstop braking feature.

[@jimzakany3900]

I led a multimillion dollar mishap investigation that had, as its root cause, the removal of that ground prong.

[@Hemingray1893]

I was wondering why my old aluminum-bodied PET circular saw had the ground prong broken off and had grip tape over the plug. I never considered that. Come to think of it, I’m shocked (no pun intended) most of my old power tools have grounded plugs in the first place.

[@Steve765]

I've been a carpenter/joiner in the UK for over 40 years, and as an apprentice, it was drummed into us that riving knives and crown guards were never to be removed and indeed in the UK it is a mandatory requirement in the commercial joinery workshop and that goes for any type of woodworking machines. To the extent that saw arbours are made with just enough thread for the blade, blade flanges and securing nut, so we can't use dado cutters in the bench saw or indeed in the radial arm saw (we have to use the vertical spindle moulding machine). So I believe that the way to go is to educate all woodworkers and that starts with good people like your self and that includes not showing sponsored adverts showing bench saws being used without the required guards in place.

[@joshuakelly8103]

From a UK perspective the design and [mis]use of "Table Saws" in the US is just horrifying. Safety features that have been the default since 1900's era flat-belt machines, are still considered unnecessary or new and modern. The high end saw-stop saws still look to have multiple poorly controlled hazards compared to a properly guarded panel-saw design like the 1950's era Wadkin PKS.

[@matthewhall2318]

If you're a shop owner, getting a sawstop is a no brainer. It will save your employees digits, and save you money on insurance and workers comp. The first time ours went off, we were sitting in the front office, and one of our employees walks in and sheepishly says "hey boss, I wanna thank you for buying that new saw." It took us a minute to register, and then we all jumped up to take a look at him. The blade had taken a tiny nibble of his thumb tip instead of his entire thumb (he had his thumb facing straight into the blade but was watching the fence). Instead of driving him to the hospital we gave him a bandaid and sent him back to work. No amount of cost savings could come close to the value of keeping all your fingers.

[@Drake33333]

You did well buying that. When I first heard about this technology I was so happy that it existed since I've heard about the injuries these saws can cause. It does stink that it is more expensive, but I believe that will improve and someday in the future people will look back and be surprised that table saws used to not have this technology.

[@WoodworkerDan]

Years ago, I read an article in a woodworking magazine that cited a study that backs up what you said in your video. If a saw is equipped with a blade guard and a splitter, it is almost impossible to injure yourself. I wish I could find that article, but that was probably twenty years ago and I subscribed to several woodworking magazines so I can't even remember where it was printed.

[@f.kieranfinney457]

If you cut thin pieces the guard has to go. Because it’s not a universally useful guard it becomes discarded.

[@WoodworkerDan]

@@f.kieranfinney457 That certainly isn't my experience. I have cut thin pieces with the guard on many times. I do take it off for non-through cuts, but on my saw that takes about fifteen seconds.

[@michael.schuler]

As a professional woodworker for 50 years, I know many colleagues missing bits of their digits. Anecdotally, I find that half of these injuries came from shapers, jointers, and machines other than table saws. Are there reliable statistics for the number of woodworking accidents annually that come from use of machines other than table saws? Personally, I agree with Stumpy's closing argument that the most effective way to reduce injuries is through proper training, emphasizing respect for the reality that *every* woodworking machine capable of cutting wood can just as well cut flesh. By the way, I myself still have all fingers intact (knock on wood, as of April 2024). I have no doubt that the reason is that as a novice woodworker I had the educational experience of cleaning a Unisaw soiled with blood and the tips of my mentor's left hand fingers... Push sticks, featherboards, jigs, and fixtures immediately became daily companions in my shop life.

[@jimhatch5873]

Thanks for the intelligent discussion. I recently retired my Dewalt contractor saw (the older 10" model) and replaced it with a Sawstop CTS. $900 + shipping (no one seemed to have it in stock except for the display model, it has to be shipped for another $75). Bought an extra brake module in case I trigger the thing. Now it's over $1000. Took the opportunity to upgrade my blades from the big box Freuds but the new saw was just an excuse for that. I also have 2 Shopsmiths but don't use the table saw function - that's a scary spinning blade 🙂 The Sawstop's blade guard and riving knife setup is much better than the Dewalt's - easier to install, less wiggly/flexy. Storing it away is convenient for when I need to take it off so it doesn't get put somewhere and then lost and never reinstalled (I'm not sure where I stuck the Dewalt's blade guard when I last took it off 🤷‍♂). Finally decided I'm not interested in losing a finger as I get older and more careless. But I'm still super-focused on the spinning blade when I'm using the Sawstop. And I don't try cutting sheet goods on the table saw - that's what a track saw is for. I'm not convinced that Sawstop's tech is the only solution though. There's a new one out there (in the 10K+ range) using optical sensors to see when a hand passes into the blade line for instance. Too expensive for a small shop saw but proof there is more than one way to make a blade-stopping saw. With the regulations I expect to see more innovation. There's also a chance to reframe the problem - from stopping the blade to focus on the injury mitigation objective of AIM technology. A lot of the Sawstop tech is centered around slamming that chunk of aluminum into the spinning blade to stop it and then dropping the whole thing under the table. How about skipping the "stop the blade" step and just drop the blade into the cabinet - who cares if it's still spinning if it's safely out of the way of the operator? That's likely a cheaper approach.

[@f.kieranfinney457]

Can you change the width of the Sawstop’s driving knife? If you change blade widths it’s kind of necessary. I seem to remember it not being possible? Their saws themselves aren’t that great though are they.

[@jimhatch5873]

@@f.kieranfinney457 They come with a riving knife and something they call a spreader that's a riving knife attached to the blade guard. The riving knife is used when you're not using the blade guard - like for non-through cuts. When you put the blade guard on, the riving knife is replaced by the spreader (think a taller version of the riving knife). I'm not sure what you mean by "their saws themselves aren't that great" - the CTS is every bit as good as the Dewalt I had (and I'd argue better than current Dewalt contractor saws because those are no longer 10" blades but only 8.5"). If you meant their blades, I can't say. I didn't bother trying the blade because I assume every table saw's stock blade is junk based on past experience. I swapped out the one that came with the saw for a CMT Orange thin kerf. They have the anti-kickback teeth but are compatible with Sawstop (some blades with anti-kickback teeth are not as they prevent the AIM from slowing the blade as fast as needed). The CTS also comes with a zero-clearance insert that is a tight fit for full kerf blades but perfect for thin-kerf. Since the motor is only spinning at 4K RPM (slower than the Dewalt) I prefer thin-kerf blades because they're easier on the motor to cut although I've not noticed any issues with bogging or anything with a regular kerf blade.

[@davidellison4750]

Slamming that chunk of aluminum into the blade is effective and nearly instant. Only 1 tooth makes contact with the hand. The other solutions may or may not be as effective, and probably aren’t nearly as quick. Sawstop’s mechanism works, it’s reliable, it’s fast. If I ever activate it with my hand, I’ll not begrudge the cost of the new cartridge and I’ll happily discard a now bent blade, just knowing that my injury can be covered by a tiny band aid and that I’ve avoided a whole series of surgical procedures, 10s of thousands of dollars in medical and hospital bills, and the result is a poorly working but cosmetically acceptable hand. That’s just the repair, there are months of rehab visits as well. Then there’s lost income from work. And you’ll be hard put to continue your fine woodworking with one hand, with scar tissue, reduced range of motion, and areas with loss of feeling. It’ll look like a hand but it won’t work nearly as well as an intact hand. That saw blade doesn’t just slice flesh and bone as a butchers knife would, it smashes, rips, and tears, flinging bits of hand far from the saw. And those bits, they’re tiny little delicate pieces of arteries, they’re pieces of previously delicately routed nerves, they’re tiny bits of small muscles, chunks of skin, and pieces of complex joints you’ve always taken for granted. The hand is complicated. It’s truly amazing. It’s exquisite. It’s well worth the cost of a few meals out to protect.

[@jimhatch5873]

@@davidellison4750 I 100% agree with the value proposition. My older brother sliced off 2 fingers on a table saw so I've seen the fallout of a blade accident. I just expect that any regulatory mandate could result in a different look at the problem. If they can skip the brake part and just drop the blade (the SS does both in less than 5ms), it would save the cost of the brake cartridge (except for the electronics that are in it) and reduce how much extra rigidity and mass are needed in the Saw's frame & construction to handle the forces of going from 34mph to 0 in 5ms. That should reduce the potential cost of the saw. There are a lot of people who understand the costs associated with a blade injury but don't have the financial capacity now to spend an extra 300 or more. They look at the blade injury as a less likely occurrence than the need to buy groceries or pay the rent now.

[@fredbecker607]

I have shopsmith in the basement. What is the problem with them? I don't see much difference between them and any other. Then, I also still have the radial arm saw. I have a healthy respect for both and when I tried other saws also.

[@ganonfan98]

I started learning carpentry and woodworking in high school in 2008, and we had a full-size shop sawstop. I had no idea how brand new that was! My teacher was STILL 100% adamant about safety and why a rip guard is so important. (He also threatened to charge anyone who set of the brake the ~$300 for a replacement. 😂) Not a single injury beyond some bruised thumbs and scrapes in four years. Just like any failsafe device, a blade brake is great to have, but it's better to be careful enough that you never need it.

[@MrDjslav5]

Thanks for the OK to use my blade guard, seriously. I might just put it on. Great video, as usual.

[@ramdodgetruck]

Been using table saws for sixty years and still have all my fingers thank God. Had a friend who recently lost a finger. I would gladly spend a thousand bucks to save a finger or two.

[@francisthorpe]

I am in complete accordance with you. Nobody plans an accident.

[@jasonstephenson793]

Well if you have the money & it's a added value to you then that's your right to buy it. But forcing others that either can't afford that extra cost or don't see a added value to it, that's not just unmoral it's unAmerican

[@thejesusaurus6573]

@@jasonstephenson793 this is insane

[@Grimster72]

My uncle had 2 "stumpy nubs" and he almost had a 3rd one, thanks to a kickback in his younger years from a circular saw with a disabled blade guard, that 3rd one was not on his hands.... or feet. Yeah, that one. Cut 3/4 of the way thru it and it had to be stitched.

[@francisthorpe]

Been using table saws since shop class in grade 7 at 12 years old. Been in the industry 45 + years Placed a thumb in a bag to accompany its' owner to the hospital. Ran my own manufactering for 25 years. I have seen the most experienced, conscientious people including myself get cut with a table saw. I will go as far as to say all users have had some sort of close call. Anytime I bring up my story of a close call to anyone, they are quick to relate their story to me. In the last ten years, I was called on to teach and set up a post secondary school shop. As I was not capable of patrolling every single minute of operation for all the students, I purchased two Industrial Saw Stops. The piece of mind brought on by this decision was and is priceless. As the owner and operator of a minimum of fifteen different table saws both industrial and portable I can say without exageration that the SawStop is by far the highest quality saw that I have ever operated. The extra cost is a small price to pay as everything is exceptionaly well thought out and the company has been great to deal with. I have no affiliation with SawStop. Any additional safeguard should be more than welcomed. Stumpy Nubs your argument of money over this safety feature is inexcusable. Just because you haven't had an accident does not equate to you won't. Please recant.

[@debluetailfly]

My shop teacher made each student pass a test about each machine before we were allowed to use it. I never heard of any accidents or injuries in his classes.

[@chrisjacobs8153]

Same I had a great instructor in vocational school while in high school. He pushed safety and proper use of tools before we could use them. Some of our tools like the table saw,band saw and radial arm saw were locked only to be used in direct supervision. I have been playing in carpentry for over 30 years only issues I ever had with a table saw where a couple of bad kickbacks. Proper body and hand positioning kept these from becoming injuries. SawStop tech will do nothing to prevent kick back. I also fear people will lean too hard on the tech and not learn how to properly operate a table saw. I saw a guy pushing this SawStop crap in the comments of another post saying has saved his fingers 5 times already. Now think about that I have been using table saws for over 30 years and still have all 10 fingers. LOL

[@barneyhartman-glaser6972]

The point about bladed guards is spot on, but it is more than a little ironic that during the ad at the end, the guy is ripping a board without using a blade guard.

[@StumpyNubs]

It's not if you actually listened to what was said. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4XdmZ-taLWjjaMsi=Os-KTDe4ACPEgQaF&t=284

[@barneyhartman-glaser6972]

@@StumpyNubs I watched, well done.

[@jbratt]

Your reporting is well done. Thank you. On a personal note, I have a 1947 Unisaw I have been using since 1978 (eighth grade) that was my dad’s. It gets used daily and I have all ten.

[@cad68m_m]

At 71 I am still using Grandfathers 1950's vintage Rockwell Homecraft table saw. Still have all 10, and I respect the blade.

[@criss7998]

You're the most proper woodworking teacher. It's like going to woodshop university.

[@williamdavies1192]

These lawyers have just about completely wrecked this country.

[@chrisl4999]

40,000 a year? That means on an average day, 110 people are hurt by these things. Wow.

[@travcollier]

Yeah, makes the idea of the gov stepping in and forcing manufacturers to include the tech seem possibly reasonable... even though it will increase prices some. Reasonable folks can think it is a bad idea, but it isn't an obviously stupid one. 7 one way, half dozen the other... But I don't know which side is which.

[@kirkyorg7654]

most are probably kickback rather then blade injuries as they are much more common

[@Skinnymoose]

Apparently the nanny state has to control every aspect our lives. I'll keep my old table saw.

[@miketrombly6652]

Yes, sounds bogus just on the face of it.

[@atlasshrugged9735]

​@@kirkyorg7654 Yup, the devil is always in the details. 40,000 seems like a huge number, but without a breakdown the reader has no way of knowing what 40,000 actually means. Is that 40,000 fingers chopped off? 39,000 kickbacks and 1,000 fingers lost, etc? I hate when vague stats are given. It's meant to elicit an emotional response from the reader which, by definition, is propaganda.

[@cboj64]

I know three guys who have got "bit" buy their saws. They had two things in common, cheap saws and removal of all safety devices. I haven't bought a saw stop yet, but I do not remove safety devices from my saws.

[@jboyd85]

If 21 seasons of Norm Abram patiently warning us to use the safety equipment didn't do it, how can we reasonably expect education alone to solve the problem. Education from who and with what consequence if it isn't attended to? I run a small remodel company in Canada where mandatory worker's compensation insurance is required. Still, the first time (and dozens of times after) we pull out dangerous tools safety hazards are discussed and "this part wants your finger to become hamburger - don't touch it" gets said. *Then* we train how to hold and operate safely. I'm eagerly waiting for the day our cashflow increases enough to purchase a SawStop (or several) for jobsite use. These injuries have a cost to society that isn't just personal and I welcome saws costing twice as much if I get to worry less about sending a worker (or myself) home without a finger.

[@EJWash57]

In 2014 we made a long-distance residential move. I sold several of my stationary machine tools (clever way to upgrade, no?). I always wanted to treat myself to a home shop gold-standard Powermatic. That's when I learned that the top brands I was considering had moved manufacture (except Laguna) to Taiwan and China. So for me, it all came down to quality control. Safety blade-retract feature aside, SawStop won me over. I owned a 5HP (220v) Industrial Cabinet Saw since 2014. Other than one unexplained blade retraction (great support from SawStop) it has performed solidly. I was 10-years-old when my dad lost half a thumb to his table saw. He was an experienced woodworker, and built the house I grew up in. This episode is still vividly branded in my memory. Because of it, I have a high-level for respect for all power tools - and many hand-operated ones as well. I see the blade retraction safety feature as a LAYER of safety, NOT an invite to complacency. Don't let down your guard!!!

[@Vranabg]

ok boomer

[@DavidB-tj3rj]

I have been a woodworker and a physical therapist for 25 years. I bought the SawStop the instant it was available! After you treat a few table saw accidents and see the pain, frustration, loss of career and function you see the Value. I am not for the Nanny state I would like to see more offerings other than just Sawstop. But to play devils advocate here how many people used seatbelts before we were told we have to? I feel the table saw is the heart of the wood working shop. If you are not willing to spend at least 1k on a saw maybe this isn’t the hobby for you. A cabinet saw was my first “big” tool as I was lucky enough to have a Roycroft artisan as a mentor and he convinced me that this was the single most important purchase in the shop. He said continue to rent shop space until I could afford and he was right. So in my mind those small cheap saws have no place and a compound miter, track saw and cheap bandsaw is a better choice if you value safety at all.

[@starseeddeluxe]

Good points. I'm deeply irritated by the general woodworking community. Because they seem to be glad that Saw Stop has prevented and actively sued other companies who have tried to create blade brake or blade safety technologies. Saw Stop is not reducing the cost of saws, because they are able to charge exorbitant prices due to their patent monopoly. Competition drives prices down, not up. The technology would cost only 1/2 as much, if it was available across all the different brands of saws. The technology doesn't need to be "forced" on the public. But Saw Stop should NOT be permitted to hold a monopoly over a potentially life saving technology. We are dealing with Human lives here. This is not a matter of "convenience." This is a matter of life or death. Table saw amputations can lead to sepsis, and death. Which leads me to my point. The Federal Government and Military needs to force the Saw Stop patent to be open source. They have the authority to do this, under the guise of "National Security." In the same way that Ford cars cannot hold a monopoly over seatbelts or anti-lock brakes. Imagine if only Volkswagen cars were allowed to have anti-lock brakes? Imagine if they sued others for trying to make their own version of anti-lock brakes? It is well known that there are at least 5,000 patents which were classified under "National Security" due to their importance to society. Every manufacturer needs to be permitted to have "flesh detection" technology as an option. Period.

[@DavidB-tj3rj]

Sawstop said they would not sue or stand in the way of other companies developing flesh sensing technology. That alone may prevent a government mandate. Other companies now can do it themselves. But will they? I really wish that the government doesn’t have to mandate it. My hope is professionals and hobbyists see value in it and the market will naturally drift towards safety. Like I said before wood working isn’t about saving money. Between the costs of lumber and finishes I never can build anything cheaper than I could just buy on wayfair. It’s not about money. It’s about quality, Heritage, and skill. The few pieces I have sold only could be purchased by wealthy individuals and I barely made a profit if you factor in time spent. But back to safety, practices, policies, common sense should always be forefront but if a safer technology exists, use it. It’s not the same as choosing between a festool or a dewalt. Owning a sawstop is not status symbol or is more precise or makes production faster. It just keeps your hot dog safe. And now that sawstop has vowed to not sue maybe the market will solve a problem without making government mandates necessary. If Government does anything it should prevent lawsuits against manufacturers legacy saws and block the argument that developing flesh sensing devices admits that traditional saws are dangerous.

[@MikeStavola]

I was just using this case to teach my kid about regulation, margins, marketing, and consumer response. The regulations may be beneficial, but no matter how well it's written, a company (or all the companies) will act like they're being choked by red tape. Costs will increase dramatically, while using marketing and consumer sentiment to try and foment rage among the louder members of the consumer sector. They'll be willing to swallow the increased costs of new saws, while the manufacturers will drop quality and potentially make more disposable hardware, which encourages a higher rate of revolving sales. Likely, this will be a boon for the manufacturers that can handle the changes, and we can see that reflected in increased profits over the following few years. Tl;dr: companies want this to happen, and will blame the government for increased profits thanks to disposability and fatter profit margins.

[@wdtaut5650]

Plus, the salivating lawyers. Any company whose saw isn't foolproof, can expect to hear the heavy breathing of lawyers sensing cash. So, if the manufacturers try to save in other components of the saw, and the saw fails and there is an injury (notice, I did not say _causes_ an injury), stand by for lawsuits - which will raise the price of the saws even more.

[@ryancappo]

But the medical insurance premiums are high because more people are getting injured, and none of them would choose to get injured if they could go back in time.

[@kurkgarro2341]

I am a retired sheet metal worker, been around all kinds of dangerous equipment, tablesaws scare me the most

[@Ryan-wb1zu]

My router both stand and handheld scare me more. There is also the power planer. I think it's a bad move to force people to use sawstop technology. I need a cabinet style for the heavy duty cutting but I can afford something more than delta's cabinet contractor combo style saw. The government instead should encourage the use of blade guards through a PSA and force manufacturers to make higher quality and better to use blade guards. My delta is like putting a puzzle together which sucks when I have to remove it for blade changes and my scarf jig for boatbuilding

[@40-forty-plus]

Have you seen chainsaws?

[@barongerhardt]

@@40-forty-plus I don't use power tools that much, but of the ones I own; chainsaws and angle grinders scare me the most.

[@johndoe6032]

Funny, it's the routers that scare me the most.

[@RAM4elightbars]

Chainsaws and angle grinders are pretty high on my "commands respect" list.

[@richd8537]

In 2004 I met a middle school shop teacher, a professional power tool user, with a chunk out of his right arm due to a table saw injury. It can happen to anyone.

[@Mika-Fresh]

So can cancer and aneurysms. What’s your point?

[@winningwithoutracing7811]

Being a teacher doesn't necessarily convey competence. I suspect the statements about teachers being from the bottom 1/3 of their high school classes is alarmingly accurate. That it's one of the easiest degree paths in college and master's programs in education are an absolute joke can not be argued.

[@nunyabidness3075]

@@winningwithoutracing7811bottom third? I doubt it. I think it’s more likely they are in the bottom third of the ones to actually get into their colleges.

[@81Lord-Nikon]

@@winningwithoutracing7811 Wow, you seem to have a dislike for teachers. You act as if teaching is a simple job that requires next to no skill. You Sir, have obviously never taught before. The problem with woodshop teachers today is that most of them hardly know anything about woodworking. It's a secondary gig for them like coaching a basketball team. This is because we have defunded schools so much that most schools cannot afford a woodworking professional that can also teach.

[@supernumiphone7258]

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

[@OOTurok]

The issue about blade guards is this. On most table saws the blade gaurds cause the piece being cut to jam on the riving knife, & you cannot finish sliding the wood through. This leaves you stuck, having to hold the piece being cut in place with one hand while trying to hit the off switch with the other. I've experienced this on nearly every Table Top, Job Site, & Contractor Table saw out there. Even some low end Cabinet Saws have this proble with their guards. This is why most people remove the gaurd & the riving knives off their table saws... to literally prevent the work piece from getting jammed during the cut. I have this problem with my Table Saw. While cutting 4x4 piece of 3/4" plywood, the gaurd jammed it on the riving knife. I could not move it to finish the pass through, & before I could shut the saw down, the work piece kicked upward ripping the gaurd off & the plywood smashed into my face shield. *"Flimsy, poorly functioning gaurds" don't help* AND boy was I ever so encouraged to remove what was left of that gaurd & the riving knife. Now I use my Table Saw with an array of specialized jigs I've custom built to make opperation safer, because the gaurd & riving knife is gone never to be added back on that saw again. Personally I hate this saw, & pretty much every portable, job stie, contractor saw there is, & I have the same passionate hate for most low end Cabinet Saws on the market, because of their *"Flimsy, poorly functioning gaurds"*. Their fences SUCK too. There are no words to express how hungry I am for an upgrade, but I can't afford a 2K Table Saw right know, that has a proper gaurd.

[@shepalderson]

Something I’ve pointed out before, and _no one_ seems to be paying attention to, is that the “840 patent”, Patent #9,724,840, is _expired_ and has been since Jan 2023. “Dedicating to the public” doesn’t mean anything for an expired patent. Anyone can build tech using that patent without SawStop being able to do anything about it. They are trying to save PR face without actually giving anything away.

[@shadowfaxcrx5141]

The opposition is claiming that patent will force them to give Sawstop money in order to comply with the rule. Sawstop is simply saying "no, it won't."

[@shepalderson]

@@shadowfaxcrx5141 There are other SawStop patents that I believe expire in the next 2-3 years, that aren’t patent 9,724,480, and that aren’t mentioned in the testimony nor press release about “dedicating the patent to the public”, that could be used to prevent manufacturers from making the saws/systems or to require licensing fees.

[@brucejohnson1264]

The standard blade guards are so badly designed and constructed that most manufacturers likely know that they will be removed and tossed in the trash. A decent overarm guard helps a lot, and that is what I used on my powermatic 66 before I got my saw stop.

[@TheMrAshley2010]

I bought the lowest priced table saw I could find at a big box store, intending to use it for only one short project at home. The guard was so flimsy that I removed it for fear that it would end up as shrapnel if it fell into the blade. And the riving knife was so far out of alignment from the blade that I could not pass any wood through to complete a cut, so had to remove it too. I recognize that I "got what I paid for". But if prices jump up to $700 to $1000 it sure will radically change the whole landscape.

[@JohnnyBurns]

That is so true

[@MemphisCorollaS]

13:09 I saw parts of the committee hearing through 731 woodworks channel, who has covered this in depth. One argument from the tool companies that has a lot of merit in my opinion is that the committee used studies including cabinet saws in heavier industrial settings along with the jobsite saws for the injuries per year statistics. The proportion of injuries in the professional level saws compared to to jobsite and table top saws was substantial. Many of the cheap saw that you would assume are being used dangerously on jobsites actually pail in comparison to large cabinet saws. I agree with your take that using the current safety features on hobbyist or jobsite saws has shown to be more effective at limiting injuries than professional woodworkers in larger shops who haven’t used the blade guards for whatever reason.

[@MemeScreen]

Very much this comment here!

[@woodrowsmith3400]

I also watched that ol' Outlaw fella speak on this subject...and was also blown away by the 85% cabinet saw number. Then...started to think on it. Cabinet saws are in commercial shops...high volume shops...where a guy might spend three-four hours in a row ripping down plywood for a custom cabinet job. Boring. Or...two straight hours ripping down wide boards for face frames. Or...or...or... I would hazard a guess the vast majority of those injuries are from self-induced boredom or blatant disregard for the very most basic safety rules... don't run a saw when you are tired, bored or stoned. Oops...was that my outside voice? Might also consider that virtually ALL industrial accidents get reported, and therefore the incidence of contractor/job site saw injuries get UNDER reported.

[@WillS-x9y]

What struck me is where in the constitution is the enumerated power to regulate table saws? This whole argument’s premise is flawed.

[@cavalieroutdoors6036]

@@WillS-x9y Read the constitution. Most of that document is expressly telling the government what it may *not* regulate. Not what it is allowed to regulate. So in general, the assumption is that if it is not expressly forbidden, then it is implicitly allowed to pass regulation as it sees fit. And apparently we've become a little iffy on that 'expressly forbidden' part over the last 250-ish years, because it definitely regulates things it was expressly forbidden to regulate.

[@DSArmageddon666]

@@cavalieroutdoors6036 It's actually the opposite. For the federal government, anything the Constitution does not specifically allow is forbidden. Yes, we've ignored that since 1860, but the premise still remains.

[@dreadnoughtandcrow]

When I heard about the proposed legislation, I was dismissive. But 40,000 injuries a year is... a lot. I'm still not sure I agree with mandating it, but that number at least makes the proposal make a certain amount of sense.

[@tommyozzy317]

I had a really old radial arm saw given to me by a family friend. Never used it and sat in the garage for a few years. Decided to throw up on FB marketplace. Got a message from a dude telling me about the recall. Messaged the company, had to show proof i cut 2 wires and then they sent me $50. So still to this day they accept recalls from decades old machines.

[@ronblack7870]

wow i have an old craftsman radial saw that sits on a storage rack. have not used it in 20 yrs.

[@ScottCleve33]

Really? The same thing happened to me only when I contacted Craftsman they shipped me a box and I needed to remove the motor and ship it to them before I got my $100.

[@tommyozzy317]

@@ScottCleve33 maybe sending it in gave you the extra $ ? For 50 bucks less, i just sent pics and then off to the recycling center. Fine with me just to get rid of it.

[@ScottCleve33]

@@tommyozzy317 I'm saying I wasn't given that option. They told me to ship the motor back was the only way to do it.

[@hammerpocket]

I learned how to use a table saw in a university art department where safety was emphasized. I later taught university-level art classes and spent lots of time keeping an eye on beginner woodworkers to make sure they adhered to safety rules.When I was able to set up a table saw in my own studio, I had every intention of keeping up with all the same safety precautions, but it is very difficult and frustrating for me to do so. I couldn't afford (and don't have room for) a full cabinet saw, so I bought a Powermatic 64A "contractor saw" in about 2001.The blade guard is decent, but it attaches in two places (one of which has three different bolts to adjust), is integrated into the splitter (which means it can't be used with non-through cuts or crosscut sleds), and the splitter is too thick to work with the now-ubiquitous think-kerf blades. I do use featherboards and a Milescraft Grabber Pro (like the Microjig Grr-Ripper) to improve safety, but I realize now I have almost completed a kitchen's worth of cabinets and have not once used the blade guard. And while I am not proud of that fact, I also know it would have added a huge amount of time and frustration to an already overwhelming project if I had to remove and re-install that blade guard as many times as necessary.

[@rickcimino5483]

I must have missed the memo about the Craftsman RAS buy back. I had one for years and years. I had to sell it when I moved into an apartment. As for their availability I see them on Craigslist all the time. I must say that this is one of if not the best and most informative of your videos (that I have watched). Kudos on your preparation and how clearly and succinctly you explained all of this. Yes, it is pretty clear that the landscape is going to change. Thanks for the warning. One last thing......I think the biggest dangers in using any power tool, especially a table saw are rushing, complacency and laziness. Eliminate those (through education as you suggest) and you will greatly reduce table saw injuries. But it's hard to teach stupid out of people.

[@arglefargle123]

"eliminate those (through education...)" thank you! that was the best laugh i've had in months.

[@rickcimino743]

@@arglefargle123 yes, but, you have to give me credit for saying "it's hard to teach stupid out of people" right?

[@stevedaenginerd]

First, thank you for bringing this up! I guess I hadn't been paying as close attention to this as I thought, I learned a few things - as usual! 🤓 Second, agreed, proper education is key to preventing injuries. I remember in high school my wood and metal shop teachers putting the fear of powered equipment into us, "you are the softest thing in the shop!" And the shop teachers had the resources to teach this kind of basic shop knowledge, fast forward to my kids in high school (oldest in mid 20s, youngest is freshman) and the shop teachers saying things like "we don't have the equipment to properly teach shop safety any more! We do the best we can, but it's not enough." I think that instead of putting the money into forcing manufacturers to "do the right thing" we need to put the money back into education in the form of bringing back proper shop classes in high school. Teach the next generations the proper respect towards the dangers around them and they have a strong foundation to learn wood and metal working properly and with safety in mind. There will always be those that say "I don't my safety glasses, I'm only drilling one hole...", We can keep kicking those dim bulbs out of the work area, but everyone should have the opportunity to learn the importance of safety. It didn't matter if it's wood, metal, or auto shop, safety used to be the main point of the class. Now it seems the main point is to fill a 40 to 55 minute period with "something".

[@MarksElectricLife]

My friend has a Sawstop and every now and then, when humidity is high, it false triggers and costs him over $100 to replace the brake mechanism. So the cost doesn't end with your up front purchase.

[@springhollerfarm8668]

This answers the question I had. I knew that stopping a blade like that would have to destroy something that would certainly be expensive.

[@greensheen8759]

We had one go off when someone cut a palm frond fresh from outside that was still too wet. It can also happen cutting metal. That's why the sawstop can be operated in bypass mode

[@ScottCleve33]

​@@greensheen8759There's a bypass mode? 🤣🤣🤣 All this pomp and circumstance about forcing safety equipment on the other manufacturers and they have a way to bypass the safety feature? This just demonstrates to me that this is just about SawStop forcing the market to raise the cost of their equipment to more closely resemble theirs.

[@micpep3076]

Have had a sawstop for over a decade. Never had a false trigger of the brake. Ever.

[@StumpyNubs]

The bypass mode is intentionally designed to be a pain. You have to go through a process of turning and holding a key until a code flashes on the panel. Then, after one cut (when you turn the saw off), the bypass ends. You'd have to go through that for every cut, making it impractical to run the saw in bypass as a habit.

[@donaldgilbert6599]

From someone who has had a kickback accident and lost a piece of my finger, let me assure you it is life changing experience (and I am a seasoned woodworker). I have since invested in a Sawstop and willingly did so. something forgotten in a discussion is that a lot of these folks that are buying low end(cheaper saws)saw don’t have years and years of experience and are a good percentage of the 40,000. nothing wrong with changes that we hand safety in our craft and it may be more expensive. Take some time to change your mindset, but it will be for the better just my my thoughts.

[@qlogic2002]

How is a saw stop going to change a kickback from improper use?

[@donaldgilbert6599]

Doesn’t change the kickback and how it happened change the outcome of the contact.

[@Prince.Prince1999]

Dude I could just listen to you talk about anything. Your approach and technique is great!

[@espressomatic]

BOSCH - Permission subject to licensing fees. So like you said, $$$. 840 is one of MANY patents SS has in their portfolio. If you carefully listen to the entire hearing it's pretty obvious the SS CEO is being disingenuous. Also, the 40k injury figure is predominantly "industry" stat - ppl working in factories and shops pulling full shifts on CABINET SAWS. The stat is not for portable nor worksite saws and isn't reflective of hobby or construction use.

[@SpartanORGN]

That whole thing was very obviously choreographed between the commissioner and sawstop CEO. They set it up to make sawstop look like a hero and everyone else a villain. Additionally they immediately recommend moving up the time line. Sawstop is set to profit immensely by raising the prices of every other saw on the market. And if they delay manufacturers from implementing saws in time by litigation of anything close to patent infringement, it means sawstop becomes all that's available until things litigation ends.

[@PennywiseM3]

Competition will drive innovation and lower costs! I have a track saw because I enjoy having all ten fingers!

[@FeNite8]

Regulation will only increase costs

[@MikeStavola]

​@@FeNite8correction- this type of regulation will increase costs because companies will blatantly lie and say it costs more, and then announce record profits. Meanwhile, the angry folks blindly believe said companies and don't look at profit margins.

[@a9ball1]

That's a good example. Track saws are safer than using a regular circular saw and a straight edge. But there are tons of homemade rails and guides for using your circular saw. So if money was no concern then everyone would have a real track saw.

[@row4hb]

@@a9ball1agree, significantly increase the cost of a table saw and more and more will discover how many cuts can be made with a track saw and some accessories.

[@iOSAT]

Yeah I rarely use my table saw anymore after switching to a proper track saw setup. Admittedly, my the setup cost as much (or more) than a saw stop table saw, but it’s much more versatile for my workflow, space, and type of projects, with no real injury risk.

[@Energyflash1979]

More people will begin making their own with an upside down circular saw without a riving knife.

[@TopCat2021]

And how long before circular saws with 10 inch blades for sale cheap start coming in from china for just such purpose (they might even include cheap plans for the clueless)

[@myuncle2]

or an upsid down jigsaw.

[@earthwormscrawl]

My favorite is the upside down hammer.

[@dracodraco1982]

Alright, let me ask you a question. Any of you can answer, mind you. As an example, the cell phone nearly all of you has handy is chock full of technology that is subject to Free, Reasonable, and Non-Discriminatory terms to all. Basically, you don't get a monopoly on production, but you do get a cut of the entire global market. This accomplishes a couple of goals. One, it incentivizes further innovation rather than delaying advancements for decades at a time; two, it encourages corporations to compete on quality and price, rather than litigation teams and finding ways to exploit intellectual property law. And it kept the market from splintering between a whole bunch of incompatible systems. Why should a safety device that greatly reduces the probability of catastrophic harm -- for which the public often eats the cost, both in ER bills and disability -- be held to a lower standard of public service than something that's closer to a creature comfort? If they made all the relevant patents FRAND, and then mandated that starting in a few years, all saws must either come with an active safety system or be capable to readily integrating the system, would you still be opposed? It might still add $100-150 to the bottom of the market. But I'd jump at a version of the cheap Skil table saw that's usually ~$250, but that would be capable of accepting a braking sysyem and sensor later down the line, even at $500. Whereas from all I've heard, the Saw Stop jobsite version is worse quality than the Skill, and is ~$600 more expensive. So, if I found a future in woodworking, now I and every other newbie has to reckon with ~$1500-2000 upgrade to the next upgrade in saw that has a safety system. Or we could spur innovation, license the tech, and force these manufacturers to stop consolidating under 3 brands, and actually get back to clever ideas, lower prices, and consistent advancement.

[@kellyvcraig]

The good news is, we can avoid liability for selling a non-monopoly saw by selling all the components (blades, guides, etc.) that go with it, then pointing out they can have them only if the haul off the saw too.

[@pdqresearch]

This was very timely for me. I had an old Craftsman 10" table saw in my shed that I wasn't using because I didn't have space for it. I was using a smaller bench top saw that had belonged to my father (the one that he lost 3 fingertips on). I was rearranging my shop and got out the Craftsman and restored it...finding the blade guard, I looked at it a long time, debating whether to use it, and decided I would, and attached it. Concerning the smaller saw, I thought about giving it away to a neighbor, but I worried about possible accidents, so I kept it and set it up, dedicated for dados, and making a guard attached to the fence.

[@Nicholas_Hardy]

Bosh was probably told they can if they pay a major licensing fee. Saw stop started out licensing for reduces fees but everyone said GTFO.

[@randyhermann9347]

Clarification: From the clip, Sawstop authorized Bosch to use Sawstop technology, not the Reaxx tech.

[@brocbradley2313]

Because the content on this channel is so well spoken and professional, I enjoy tuning in and listening to the end. I always learn something.

[@d.k.1394]

Me too

[@wabio]

Spending a little more on flesh sensing technology is essentially buying instantaneous safety insurance. If I could spend $500 more on every major power tool I have (router table, miter saw, jointer, etc.) and guarantee I would never be injured.......I would do it in a second. As expensive as this sounds, it's pennies compared to medical costs. I was at Rockler a few years ago and had a conversation with a fellow woodworker who's brother had a serious table saw accident the year prior. After an ER visit and many follow up doctor appointments, it ended up costing him near $50k and that's with insurance. He said he ended up buying himself a Sawstop two weeks later. I don't think I've even spent $50k on my entire shop.

[@answeris4217]

If you are a builder using green lumber you will not be happy. Needing to go threw a special sequence everytime you need to cut something or ruin a expensive blade and cartridge. And you are basically bypassing the added safety features

[@ericwosinski9430]

If I had to pay $500 more for my major power tools I wouldn't have any of them.

[@TylerSoutham]

The safety factor is great. This government regulation is not.

[@loganmedia1142]

It's not a little more. The extra cost is large.

[@roberte8091]

So says the person with money to spare. Why do you think people are buying the cheapers saws??? Its because they cant afford the expensive ones. Also, this law will not cover circular saws. People will just convert them into table saws. Search KZbin, there are already tons ov videos showing you how to make your own table saw.

[@oliverplowman]

You’re videos are always well balanced and informative. Thank you!

[@edbilek8033]

Unfortunately, if the answer was as simple as education, it will never be adopted. It is just like sooooo many other parts of our lives, if people just did what they are supposed to do, everything would work out fine. Instead, people speed, run red lights, eat too much, don't exercise, operate power tools without valid safety devises... The list goes on and on.

[@darkwinter7395]

The continued existence of young smokers is proof of this.

[@Biker118347]

How many people drive their cars for years and all of a sudden some little thing pops up on the dash and they are on Reddit or Google because they NEVER read the manuals. Why would they read the safety instructions on their shop equipment? They run red lights and stop signs even though it could kill them, but they don't care enough to follow rules, regulations and laws.

[@Rocketkid2121]

Are you saying this justifies passing the law? What difference does it make to you if others choose not to buy the sawstop saw?

[@thedocotrL]

@@Rocketkid2121Because we all suffer from other people's folly. Guy cuts his hand off, big medical bills, insurance rates go up for more than just him. Secondarily, his family suffers. Maybe he loses his job. Use your imagination.

[@edbilek8033]

I did not say nor imply support of a law. We wouldn't need so damn many laws if people took ownership of their own actions. Laws do not prevent actions. They allow the government to control the lives of people that don't want to own-up to their mistakes.