Stupid Gage Pin Tricks: Measuring and Modeling Pulleys | Fusion 360

Today we're going to answer a question from a viewer about measuring v-belt pulleys using pins, and using constructive geometry in CAD to to build accurate models and useful shop drawings.
Someone will ask how I navigate smoothly in Fusion. I use a SpaceMouse:
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3Dconnexion SpaceMouse Compact 3D Mouse (Amazon*): amzn.to/2TSJ2q9
Tools used in this video:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
HFS 190-Piece (0.061-0.250") Gage Pin Set Minus (Amazon*): amzn.to/2DDSAf3
HFS 250-Piece (0.251-0.500) Gage Pin Set Minus (Amazon*): amzn.to/3cjEX5k
Shars 0-6" .0001" micrometer set (eBay*): ebay.to/3sxGRqK
Aventor 8" DPS IP54 Caliper (eBay*): ebay.to/37y1Tg3
Men's Teva Mush Flip Flops (Amazon*): amzn.to/3wWYZfv
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface (Amazon*): amzn.to/3jDamDD
Shure SM7b Microphone (Amazon*): amzn.to/2SDrdua
Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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[@HanstheTraffer]

Your clear minded presentations make it a pure joy to watch....One of he best teachers on youtube when it comes to more complex stuff. You do a great service for inquisitive minds.

[@mumblbeebee6546]

Thank you James - no idea why you felt any of this was “stupid”? It’s really insightful and useful - and as always, well explained!

[@rogerkirby6586]

I agree

[@Clough42]

It's a play on a segment that David Letterman used to have on his late-night talk show: Stupid Human Tricks.

[@4n2earth22]

@@rogerkirby6586 Here I am, on that agree train again. Here's my ticket.

[@nefariousyawn]

@@Clough42 I get it now! Letterman was a long time ago for some of us.

[@oldfarthacks]

@@Clough42 So, do we have to steel ourselves against stupid gage pins, or just get wired to using them?

[@DavidHerscher]

Once again, taken to school by James. I can't even begin to tell you how much i appreciate your videos. As a hobbiest, I've never learned any of this stuff in school or anything, and tasks like this can seem insurmountable. But then, James comes along and drops that hot knowledge. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us!

[@memomakes9453]

I would call this one powerful. Alot if info in a small package. Thanks for the info. You just upgraded my fusion knowledge. Great presentation. Thanks for the vid

[@DrFiero]

And of course as you're figuring out your V-belt 'stuff' - never let the bottom of the belt hit the bottom of the groove. They get traction from the sides.

[@nefariousyawn]

Does this mean the depth of the groove isn't critical? Should it just be shallow enough that the pulley strength isn't compromised, and deep enough that the belt rides the angled walls?

[@DrFiero]

Well do remember that as the belt wears, it's wearing on the sides (primarily) which makes it's "V" profile skinnier - so it will sink down lower and lower. If you only left yourself 10 thou to start... you don't have much of a margin of error. ;)

[@wernerweinstock1150]

Very cool. I've been working on a Fusion 360 drawing to make some Aloris type tool holders. I haven't been able to get my pin measurements for the dove tail into my drawing accurately. This is exactly what I needed.

[@kruger12311]

You can right click wherever in the sketch when you want to select circle/arc tangent dimmension :) Great video as always :)

[@Clough42]

I didn't know that. Thanks!

[@azenginerd9498]

@@Clough42 because I'm that guy... with SolidWorks, to achieve the arc circle tangent huba huba you just press the shift key and select the circle.

[@alanhardman2447]

@@Clough42 - Great episode, as usual! If you don't mind saying, what part of Idaho are you from? I spend quite a bit of time in Meridian and grew up in Emmett about a hundred years ago...

[@KonstantinosKalleris]

Every video is a lesson. Thank you very much for the in depths of Fusion 360! Greetings from Greece! Kostas

[@jamescullins2709]

You make this look so EASY. You are a very good instructor. Keep it up.

[@brucewilliams6292]

Thank you so much for the great presentation of how to do this type of drawing. Also, your camera work is top-notch.

[@4n2earth22]

Great tut! I use SW, but Chevy or ford, it all works about the same. Thank you for taking the time, exercising the talent & discipline you have acquired to put together this gem for us regular 'beans to enjoy. :-)

[@tonyray91]

I leaned a lot about Fusion360 form this video that I hadn’t picked up from channels dedicated to it., Many thanks.

[@howardosborne8647]

If all else fails you could always use a couple of short lengths of drill rod (silver steel) for gauge pins.

[@RRINTHESHOP]

What an excellent demo. I use this method often using cad. Thank you for sharing.

[@raulc398]

BRILLIANT!!!!!!!Cheers from Toronto Canada!!

[@guyloughridge4628]

Thanks for this video. Fusion 360 looks to be a godsend in the shop. Let's hope that I can now apply this in my own projects.

[@tablatronix]

I just know this will come in handy one day!, love these

[@guye7763]

That is just fantastic teaching. Thanks! So wonderful to get that sort of teaching without the hubris. Thankyou agaiin.

[@michaellitzkow8123]

I hadn't known about making sketches visible in drawings. That will be a huge help at some point in the future. As others have said, more fusion 360 tutorials from you would be great. Thank you so much for your very informative videos.

[@oldfarthacks]

There are lots of things that Fusion 360 does that are not apparent on the first go. I myself am still transitioning from AutoCad, but that I started using on a IBM PC with 64K of memory. Don't do a redraw without planning to go out for lunch. I still like to be able to do everything from the keyboard, not touching the mouse, but this younger generation just has to have the mouse and so I am forced into the future.

[@Know-Way]

Thanks James. Another great video.

[@donmittlestaedt1117]

Nice. My pencil, sketches. the ITW pocket trig book... I used to be so pleased doing it the hard way. I was almost floored when I could use a scientific calculator to do calculations and pull up the trig function. It is all so marvelous. Thanks for sharing.

[@smellycat249]

Very very useful fusion lesson. Thank you so much.

[@ArindursForge]

Super helpful tutorial! Thank you very much

[@ianhand4845]

I really appreciate your clear theory explanation. Thanks

[@alistairfurnell126]

Thank you James a joy to watch -New Zealand

[@sandwon]

You have another subscriber. Thanks for the helpful tricks.👍 I will be learning Fusion soon😎

[@paulmace7910]

Awesome. You are the master of 360. Thank you.

[@rpavlik1]

Ohh, so that's why KZbin machinists have "thread wires". Seeing the constraints build up in the model made it all make sense. Super cool! Also, you must have a space mouse or other high-dof input device, that "pan the model while 'dragging' a constraint" was so smooth. I shall definitely use this trick (or variants of it) with SolveSpace and my "two flute gauge pins" (as another commenter mentioned) in the future. I have definitely used cad as a way to figure out math and geometry in the past. (Projection math for 3d graphics rendering!)

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks for sharing!

[@yanito1979]

Fantastic video thanks

[@greener121]

I always learn new techniques from your approach to fusion 360, which is something that I still struggle with.

[@dannyl2598]

Thank you. I had no idea about the angle change according to diameter of pulleys.

[@toolbox-gua]

You are a great teacher.

[@rogerkirby6586]

If you click and hold just below and to the right of the lines you want to select, then pull the mouse over the lines you want to select they will all be selected just like that. Great video by the way.

[@orangetruckman]

Great video topic 👍🏻

[@Zappyguy111]

Oh, V belt pulleys? Mine just melted! Awesome!

[@peirossmallhomemachineshop5364]

When I noticed that the spindle thread of my 70 year old lathe (old Swiss DIXI lathe) I had to model it and I proceeded the same way. I don't own thread wires, so I used three 1/8 in. endmill shanks. It worked perfectly ; good trick.

[@Bosbulls]

Thanks James. Useful as always. I like your clear style of educating. You should really consider doing more Fusion 360 tutorials. I know there are plenty out there, and I'm subscribed you quite a few brilliant teachers, but you could definitely ranked with them.

[@Clough42]

I get a lot of positive feedback on my Fusion 360 videos. I try to keep a mix of content, and I pay attention to the view counts, so if there's interest, I'm happy to do more.

[@philshel1]

@@Clough42 I agree, as an "old school" machinist from the last century, I can do the hands on but the CAD is a killer. You have a very good teaching style that I find easier to follow than most other instructors.

[@Graham_Wideman]

@@Clough42 If you do decide to do more Fusion 360, which would be great, I'd like to request you use screen capture software that automatically shows your key strokes and mouse presses. Of the many F360 videos I've watched, there have been some really good ones where the viewers face defeat at some crucial step because the host used some keystroke to make some magic happen, and didn't show or tell what it was.

[@Clough42]

@@Graham_Wideman good feedback. Thanks.

[@rodneykiemele4721]

Very good video, Thanks

[@byronwatkins2565]

We might also recommend Joe Pieczynski for in depth understanding. We should point out that the pins cannot rest on the 'bottom' of the pulley V -- they must contact only the sides of the V -- and that you don't want to tighten the calipers at all or the pins will spread the groove and give a false reading. If you don't want to buy Fusion 360, you can download FreeCAD.

[@makosharkcnc7730]

helpful video thanks for making F360 video

[@pravado81]

I wish I could understand confusion 360. Great video.

[@jimsvideos7201]

If it's dumb and it works, it isn't dumb.

[@woodscreekworkshop9939]

Super💪🏼

[@sharkrivermachine]

You make Fusion360 look so easy. I have a mental block on it.

[@Cenedd]

I wish to complain about the description of this video; those were neither stupid tricks nor stupid gauge pins! MINE are stupid gauge pins.....they have two flutes, a 135° split-point and only come in 0.1mm increments...but they get me by and effectively cost me nothing. I shall not vouch for their accuracy mind and they definitely need to be measured with a mic rather than taken at nominal diameter!

[@Clough42]

Drills work great if that's what you have. You know, you can cut the spiral flute part off, and they'll be easier to use. :)

[@UncleKennysPlace]

@@Clough42 I usually break the spiral flute off, using a method I call "ham-fistedness".

[@Cenedd]

I find they don't cut so well without the fluted end ;) On a more serious note though, it's worth checking that the shank hasn't been chewed at all by a chuck as that'll through it out of round to the point of uselessness for gauging purposes.

[@David-ik9yn]

I like your bass intro.

[@TandaMadison]

Interested to know your approach to machining this pully. Would you grind a 38deg form tool and do it just like a thread? I can think of a few other approaches but many of them keep you from having access to both sides with good symmetry to take measurements with the pins. Great video! I find myself taking the constructive geometry approach quite often, since Fusion 360 is almost constantly open on my desktop.

[@outsidescrewball]

Simple/smart…NOT stupid…. I am stupid so I can say that…lol, great video production/discussion/demonstration/Fusion lesson

[@craigtate5930]

Great stuff. What version of machinerys handbook are you using? I have the 15th edition and Sadley dont have that exact chart. Gonna try to make a copy of it to add to my book. Would have been very handy info to had a few months back...

[@Clough42]

I have the twenty-first edition.

[@WilliamChitham]

Since you used different sized pins the 5.555" measurement could not have been not symmetrical about the centre of the pulley so presumably Fusion accounted for this offset automatically but I imagine that would be quite a complicated sum to do on paper.

[@Clough42]

That's the power of letting CAD software sort out the constructive geometry. It would be much more complicated on paper for the reason you state.

[@johnalexander2349]

I wonder how accurately you could measure the angle using 2 sets of pins of different sizes if you were dealing with a completely unknown pulley.

[@Clough42]

Oh... That's a very cool idea. I might try that!

[@4n2earth22]

It would rely on your ability to accurately take other measurements, but the software can derive 'other' dimensions from the right combo of measured (accuracy is key) dimensions. Reverse engineering is a talent and art, and can be very accurate.

[@joandar1]

@@Clough42 That method is also in MH as well as using balls to measure internal tapers. John, Australia.

[@Clough42]

@@joandar1 Really? What section? It's a big book. :)

[@Clough42]

@@joandar1 Oh, I see the angle and taper measurements using disks. That could be easily abstracted to tapered holes and balls. Cool!

[@samvoelkel2046]

Thanks.

[@lroyson]

Great video! Who are the 4 people who did a thumbs down? You must have some brothers and sister mad with or something. 😂

[@MaraD98]

Two questions for you James. I'm looking at buying a pin gage set. What range set(s) do you find useful? How did you decide to get a plus set or minus set? Thanks for the good content!

[@Clough42]

I have pins from .011" up through .500", and I would like to keep growing the set. I picked minus because the first set I bought was minus, and I didn't know the difference. Looking at it now, minus is fine, because I'm, typically checking 3D-printed or CNC milled holes, and a minus gage pin will usually just barely fit into a proper-sized hole. The .061"-.250" set is the one I use the most, but it totally depends on the size of work you do. You can also buy loose pins if you need them in specific sizes. I have a .750" pin that I use for touching off tools, and I know a lot of people have pins that fit their mill table slots for quickly aligning parts.

[@44mod]

Great video. I have a question? I just noticed you changed your bracket for your encoder to a solid mount. Looks like you 3d Printed the bracket and drilled and tapped holes on lathe. Do you have a link to the Fusion file and cold we get it. Thanks Joe!!

[@Clough42]

I totally forgot to upload it. Here you go: www.thingiverse.com/thing:4916260

[@Taylorweintraub]

hey james what is the mouse you use to control fusion so smoothly when i use my mouse/trackball i have to zoom in and out hundreds of times and use the box in the corner to spin it and get frustrated.

[@Clough42]

Check the video description. :)

[@neobikes]

there is no such thing as "stupid trick" because tricks are clever!

[@cavemaneca]

Nice and informative, good way to measure things like this (where the angle is known). One question though, don't those calipers have a switch for inch/mm? Also that 0.627" measurement is suspiciously close to 5/8"....

[@Clough42]

The calipers do. The micrometers do not. I'm assuming it's 16mm because everything on the lathe is metric except the leadscrews and dials.

[@cavemaneca]

@@Clough42 understandable, context matters a lot with whether or not something is metric/imperial. The really sad thing is that even if we adopted metric tomorrow in the US, we'd still be dealing with random imperial leftovers for the rest of our lives. Even metric micrometers are based off imperial ones.

[@Clough42]

@@cavemaneca the best thing about switching to metric would be needing only 1/3 as many drills. :)

[@cavemaneca]

@@Clough42 you don't have to convince me

[@adam207321]

Well damn I am the guy who asked for the help amd I must say, this is suprisingly easy. Thanks a lot for the advice. I know I am 5 months late apologies :D So I just used tiny end mills as my gauge pins and measured and designed the thing and now I am hoping for the best. Is there a way to calculate material mass too? Lets say the original flywheel was a zinc aluminium alloy for simplicity sake aluminium...I want to make the flywheel out of cast iron or hot rolled or whatever iron.. is there a way I could get a realtime readout of the approximate weight of the part?

[@Clough42]

Most CAD software will give you the part volume. In Fusion, you can set the material and it will give you the mass.

[@tommays56]

Pitch Diameter is always tricky with so many belt styles

[@Clough42]

For sure. And to be fair, I don't know if I ever saw a spec saying what style pulleys this lathe has. I think I may have deduced it from the part number of a replacement belt, but the belts I'm using are certainly not the ones that came with the lathe originally.

[@nathanliebespeck8088]

Looking at purchasing a mini lathe. Something similar in size to the Grizzly you have, probably slightly smaller. Would you be willing to do a video on what too look for and why you went with the model you did.

[@Clough42]

The lathe I have is the Grizzly G0602, which is a 10x22" model. It's about double the size and five times the weight of a typical 7x10 mini lathe. I bought it because 10x22 is big enough for most of what I do, and at 450lbs, it's pretty easy to move around with an engine hoist. Now that I have a 3-phase motor and VFD on it, I'm pretty happy. If I were to upgrade, I'd be looking for a Hardinge HLV-H, which is about the same size, but many times heavier, more precise, and expensive.

[@nathanliebespeck8088]

@@Clough42 This would be my first metalworking lathe, but it's been years since I used a woodworking lathe. Unfortunately I am not exactly sure what I should be looking for in a mini lathe as far as features and specs. I was looking at the Grizzly 8 x 16 G0768Z with the X/Z DRO, but I see now that the shipping weight is only 177lbs. Am I to assume the heavier the lathe, the more stable and rigid it is? I was attempting to stay under $2000 for the lathe itself, as I understand there is quite a bit of tooling to be purchased as well. It looks like I should consider waiting until I can increase my budget for something heavier. Thank you for the information. I enjoy the detail in your videos, and the inclusion of your thought process. Very squared away. Thank you again.

[@todayintheshopbanksy5904]

When you dimensioned the tan of the two pins, should you have dimensioned one back to the centre line?

[@smalelefant]

I thought the same thing

[@Clough42]

I certainly could. What would you use that dimension for, though? In the shop, you'll always be measuring across the two pins with a micrometer. Or maybe I'm missing something.

[@todayintheshopbanksy5904]

@@Clough42 Ignore That, the Parnellism of mirroring sorts it out.

[@smalelefant]

@@Clough42 My bad i missed a dimension in the sketch ;)

[@mrx.2233]

Hi James, I watch a lot of your videos. I remember you saying that when you were bud back plate for your CNC machine that you are an engine er by trade but a terrible welder. Just quoting you not insulting you. I am curious to know which field of engineering you are qualified in?

[@thetooth]

3:48 i knew it

[@bobvines00]

James, nice tips! I assume that Autodesk Fusion 360 is still free for non-commercial use, i.e., for hobbyists?

[@walnutclose5210]

It is.

[@memomakes9453]

Yup. For hobbyist it is free. I have been using it for a year now. I am about to renew my free version. I have no previous education in cad. But fusion has been relatively easy to learn. And with awesome creators like mr. Clough,. You can learn quickly

[@Clough42]

I have a commercial license, but last I checked it was free for enthusiasts.

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Are you planning to make a pulley? Thanks for the video.

[@Clough42]

I don't have a V-belt pulley project at the moment, but I made some multi-v pulleys for my toolpost grinder if you dig back into my videos.

[@JoshuaNicoll]

Damn, if this video was released a couple weeks ago I could have appied one of those tricks

[@Clough42]

I'm sure you'll get a chance to use it again.

[@JoshuaNicoll]

@@Clough42 Probably since the pulleys didn't turn out fantastic the first time, so I could definitely go back and try again

[@mrtnsnp]

But how do you measure the V-angle if you don't know what type of pulley you have (as is likely with the reel to reel tape recorder)?

[@Clough42]

You could use a protractor, or maybe angle gages. Someone suggested taking two different measurements across pins, with different size pins at different depths and let Fusion sort out the trig. I want to try that.

[@4n2earth22]

@@Clough42 Also, with some pulleys, the wear in the sides causes the use of pins to return false values for the original angle. In industry, there are many instances where the 'wrong' pulley is used because it was the one the maintenance guy or gal had on hand to make the repair. Wrong pulleys usually eat the belt, but there are situations where the reverse can happen.

[@mrtnsnp]

@@Clough42 I think I'd go for the multiple pin sizes if the angle gauges aren't available. And it all depends on the scale of course. A pulley in a tape recorder is likely 2 to 4 mm wide, which makes a lot of hte techniques harder to execute.

[@patwicker1358]

So, I'm confused about how one would machine this. A form tool?

[@Clough42]

A form tool if it's small, or feeding down the shoulders with the compound if it's larger.

[@carlbukowsky1931]

Form tool is how I do it. Think like its a single thread, with the critical dimension the v-groove width. The angle is on the tool, and the max depth is not critical, but the minimum is from the handbook. I use a large radius form tool so the bottom of the v-groove doesn't have a sharp angle (less stress too).

[@Steelcrafted]

Was that literally 5.5555"!? How the heck lol

[@gigametr1zandroid554]

First view. Get in there!

[@srmofoable]

You can use a very similar trick to measure holes and concave shapes that gauge pins won't fit into by using ball bearings instead of pins. Obviously in your drawing all you see is the cross sectional area so it's exactly the same process. Learned that working in a tool and die shop for soda can presses where the dies had tons of inner profiles like chamfers and radii on tiny internal shapes that were impossible to measure otherwise.

[@edwardssistershands]

Gauge???

[@Clough42]

Both spellings are commonly used. McMaster-Carr spells it "gauge". Starrett spells it "gage", as does Machinery's Handbook, and the maker of the pin gage set I'm using: amzn.to/3cjEX5k

[@edwardssistershands]

@@Clough42 They just do it to save ink :P

[@austinstricklin9048]

Would you be interested in doing some fusion 360 work for me? I'd pay you what your worth.

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing!

[@Knatte_Anka]

My best tip with fusion 360 was if you want to select multiple lines that is connected, dubbel click it like when you mirrored in the sketch😁 one dubbel click insted of 5 clicks