Subclass Tier Ranking for Van Richten's Guide To Ravenloft

[@chrisvossler8795]

I think I'd heard about these two subclasses before now, but I didn't know anything about them. Just one suggestion for if you are planning to cover the rest of the subclasses by book instead of class: could you show the subclass ranking for each respective class at the end of your analysis the way you did in the class-based videos. I like seeing how all of the options stack up against each other within the class.

[@ashleyien1222]

Yes, it'd be nice to see the class ranking charts to see the comparison between other Bard / Warlock subclasses.

[@dominikbasil5393]

Cant you you just watch those videos?

[@chrisvossler8795]

@@dominikbasil5393 I have; it's nice to have it all in one place.

[@dominikbasil5393]

@@chrisvossler8795 its 10 sec a most.

[@KesinX]

Even a single level dip into Undead Warlock makes a ton of sense for a Conquest Paladin. They love making people frightened and the Undead Warlock is very very good at it.

[@Donovarkhallum]

It's take three levels to get the subclass

[@KesinX]

@@Donovarkhallum Not for Warlocks.

[@twicedeadmage]

​@@Donovarkhallum You get your boon at third level.

[@gavinlopez6258]

But hexblade...

[@Boom12]

@@gavinlopez6258 why not break the mold? Don't need to always rely on Hexblade. I've seen someone build a Paladin/Celestial Warlock character and that went great.

[@EAtheatreguy]

One of the best spells on the Undead warlock's list that you didn't talk about at all was death ward. Death ward on a warlock is amazing, and it was the only redeeming facet of the Undying warlock. It lasts for 8 hours but you get spell slots back on a short rest, so if you cast it at the beginning of an adventuring day and just take a few extra hours before raiding a dungeon, your whole party can get a free final security measure.

[@Marb315]

Especially great if you combine it with one of the lineages (or just an elf or warforged lol) that gives you a long rest in 4 hours

[@TheBatotsu]

Depending on the DM you can even do something that any other spell allows, stacking it multiple times on a single character.

[@sqoo5]

@@TheBatotsu No spells or abilities with the same name stack in 5e.

[@TheBatotsu]

@@sqoo5 They do but the second one dont work. If you apply bless twice in a character, he will have only one. If the first bless goes out, the second one will remain. The same happens with death ward, if the character triggers death ward by dying then the spell dissapear and the second one that was doing nothing takes place until it goes out.

[@sqoo5]

@@TheBatotsu Based on sage advice I don't believe what you said is even possible. What you described is literally them stacking, just one being in effect at a time. But it's intended for it to not stack at all, which goes against what you're saying.

[@kevinewer1914]

I think that the idea for the Bard was that Guidance would compensate for have fewer normal uses for Bardic Inspiration.

[@DaDunge]

guidance with range.

[@HAOSxy]

DD: "we love random tables" Also DD: "we don't like the risk of a waste of the random table"

[@NXPhoenix3]

I think the difference is random tables as a side effect verses random tables as an ability's core effect. With the table as a side effect on top of regular abilities it adds fun randomness where a wiff doesn't feel like you're missing something and you can look forward to trying again to see if you get the big win. If the table IS the core of a limited resource ability then the randomness takes away from reliability and the wiff result feels like you've wasted that resource and can't risk trying again for a desirous payout. This also relates to the strength of the table's effects. If it's a random add-on to something you do anyway you're more tolerant of weak or even detrimental effects because you're not losing out on the central triggering ability you used and are likely to roll again sooner than later. If the table is the core of the ability all of the effects have to be stronger than average so even when you get a non-optimal result you still feel like you got SOMETHING worth the resource cost...and make it seem like using that resource again sooner than you usually would is worth it to chase that "big win."

[@DasGreenCow]

100%

[@wititorac]

For this one you risk losing a very important class resource for nothing. Sorcerer and Barbarian tables dont consume metamagic/rages per use.

[@infra_r3d133]

Tables are great for GMs, maybe not so good for a PC

[@astrocat345]

My DM homebrewed the option to learn Tales from Beyond for my Spirits Bard, when getting loot he'd sometimes allow me to roll my bardic inspiration die and I'd get a scroll with the story. So long as I had it, I could auto pick that tale instead of rolling on the table. It really made that d10 inspiration die period easier to go through!

[@Spiceodog]

Remember that all the things you can get on the random table for spirits are good, most of them are better then what you could do using that inspiration a different way.

[@havelockvetinari3032]

That's what I thought. I absolutely believe that they seriously underestimated the spirits bard.

[@havelockvetinari3032]

Even counting I don't know as the worst opinion for the subclass (which I can't help but notice that did on the graph) the popular opinion was still really in b, leaning towards a. Looks like I'm not alone in disagreeing with them.

[@Vordrazz]

I played a spirits bard for Strahd and it was awesome the whole way through. I honestly want to play it over in another campaign. I haven't felt like that with other subclasses.

[@CivilWarMan]

Undead Warlock also combines really well with 7 levels of Conquest Paladin, both thematically and mechanically.

[@gregorytorres1728]

I've played this combo just recently. Did Conquest Pally 8 and 2 Undead Warlock. Plus another 1 level of Divine Soul Sorcerer. Was a really potent build with super strong fear and battlefield control mechanics.

[@dolphinsniper]

Glad to see I'm not the only one that thought of it... and ha, from the looks of it, a lot of other people did too! XD

[@eliadams3711]

Undead warlock and just a little circle of spores is really awesome too, since the circle of spores doesn’t require concentration you can rack up a bunch of temporary hit points and cool ability’s

[@havelockvetinari3032]

I would absolutely say that spirits is b at the lowest. I think they're seriously undervaluing the table.

[@seanferris2571]

I agree. It's a really fun and powerful subclass plus the flavour is fantastic

[@CivilWarMan]

I think an interesting way they could have done the Spirits Bard table is that when the Bard gives someone inspiration, they roll the die and the ally gets imbued with the spirit of that tale, which then gets activated when they use the die. It might also be interesting to rework the table so each tale gives a different benefit depending on what type of roll the bardic inspiration is used on. As an example, perhaps for the Tale of the Runaway, it pushes the enemy away from them if they use it on an attack roll, gives them the teleport option if they use it on a saving throw, and gives them a buff to their movement speed if they use it on an ability check. Give each tale thematically appropriate options that synergize with the types of roll the inspiration is used to buff.

[@TheGameVerse]

This is completely just from my experience...but the college of spirits bard is amazing. It was super fun, the abilities MULTIPLE TIMES saved my party from tpk (mostly when you get the teleport, because man that is unbelievably useful). Don't get me wrong, some adventuring days I just could not get what I needed. You guys missed the aspect that with the spirit session you can get access to revivify. Very useful when you are your parties healer, which I was when I played it.

[@stars1941]

In all honestly, I've played a bard before this subclass came out which, with a few minor cosmetic tweaks, was basically all the good parts of this subclass. I used a tarot deck, and my bardic inspiration was me telling stories etc

[@DasGreenCow]

The spirit session is fantastic. When my Paladin character died, I built a Spirits Bard flavored as a Hag. In the three sessions that we've had oh, Spirit session has paid off tremendously twice. One time I gave our Warlock a story of the traveler, that gave him extra hp, extra ac, and extra speed. Which saved him from dying under finger of death. Another time I gave tale of the clever animal to a character who isn't very good at Charisma and had to do a series of Charisma checks, and was the difference between success and failure. Most of the features on the roll table don't expire after one use they can continue to use them until it runs out. Most these features are better than what one single bardic inspiration to do on one single roll.

[@joshdavid9256]

I'm playing a conquest paladin right now that is going to multiclass into undead warlock. I'm very much looking forward to combining aura of conquest with the ability to impose fear with every hit.

[@rainme963]

And... How did it went? I want to know if it worked best than hexblade :p

[@RalphusAdolphus2]

Overall I think you're underestimating the College of Spirits. There are multiple features there that I think you're not giving enough credit or missing how they'll be used in practice. For example, Summon Undead is a great option for Spirit Session which is only a level 3 spell. It's one of the best summon options and Bards normally don't get any summoning spells unless they use Magical Secrets. I agree with the community that this belongs in the B tier. That being said, I have to applaud you guys for skipping over the thing that people always seem to focus on which is that the Spiritual Focus only adds damage or healing when you cast a spell "through the focus". People tend to interpret this as only being applied to spells that have a material component and are cast using the focus instead. I think this is obviously not the intent of this ability and there is nothing in the rules that say you can't cast a spell through a focus if it doesn't have material components.

[@D_Abellus]

I have been working under the assumption as a player and DM that all spells are casted through the focus. So far, no one has really asked the question or brought up the possibility of it not being that way in my group.

[@Calebgoblin]

I'm somehow managed to avoid any info leaks on this book whatsoever so frankly I have no idea what to expect from this video and it's very exciting

[@yooooo8600]

“info leaks”? the book has been out for like half a year lol

[@SHINTA1035]

I am a perma warlock player and this was my absolute favorite subclass. Took pact of the tome and it was so amazing.

[@PedroAce]

Hope you don't mind me asking, how did pact of tome go for you? I'm new to dnd and can't decide if my undead warlock should go pact of tome or chain. A familiar seems very fun but the idea of rituals from any spell list also is enticing.

[@SHINTA1035]

So I personally loved it because it amplified one of the best technical reasons to play a warlock and that is your spell slots coming back after a short rest. Usually as a warlock you run out of steam pretty quick in combat and then just eldritch blast every round and I hate that. So taking the tome pact allowed me to abuse a lot of "without using a spell slot" spells and make my character feel like a full caster. Now as always, go with the rule of cool. Play whatever you think will be the most fun. And your DM should be pretty flexible and let you make changes as you go to keep you having fun. All of those other pacts you mentioned I have also played and loved them all.

[@PedroAce]

@@SHINTA1035 Thanks for the reply! That makes a lot of sense. I think I'll give that a go for my first warlock :)

[@jsjoyner85]

I had a GREAT time playing an undead warlock recently. One of my favorite aspects of it is in the RP potential and I actually built my warlock specifically around RP rather than combat so I did miss out on a couple of invocations that would make it even stronger mechanically, but even so it is such a satisfying class to play when things click into place just right. Highly recommend it for anyone that liked the idea of the undying but hated the execution, this subclass is infinitely better. We were playing at level 9-12 and I took the pact of the tome and aspect of the moon as one of my invocations--so I became the permanent night watch since I didn't need to sleep anymore. I mostly used the time to play cards with the goblin skeleton companion I reupped daily with the invocation that lets you cast animate dead. Strangely, the fact that I had no proficiency in perception and a -1 wisdom modifier did not inspire confidence in my fellow adventurers and very quickly I was joined on watch.

[@intergalactic92]

Funnily enough I’ve just joined a game. Wanted to pick Undying, for RP reasons, until I discovered the Undead subclass whilst researching (purely by chance), so I’m playing an Undead pact of the Blade Warlock instead.

[@justintruong2265]

I personally am running a Dragonborn that so far has 7 levels of conquest paladin and 2 in undead warlock and he is KILLING IT! It makes for not only a strong but extremely thematic character

[@CarlosTorres-vj3vh]

Oh I was playing the same thing combo some time ago, tho I was taking Paladín only to 5th level. It's a pretty awesome combination

[@freddylisy10]

That’s awesome I was planning on bringing a paladin warlock to one of my next campaigns it’s cool to see a successful combo

[@williambennett7935]

Here’s my simple fix for Spirits Bard: After a rest, roll on the Spirit table to see what you get; you can now CHOOSE to expend a bardic inspiration die if you want it. You can roll again on a short or long rest.

[@bye1551]

I personally really like that the chance to get 1 in particular is harder as you level up. It's really flavourful, a bard that has their head full of so many stories they can't distinguish anymore, until they slow down and develop a way to organise them in their mind (the 14th level feature)

[@euansmith3699]

I'd like to see a Vampire Monty and Werewolf Kelly Gothic game; like What We Do in the Shadows.

[@edamommy]

Undead is great on it's own, but it's also a fantastic defensive Lvl 1 dip for any melee PC. It's a nice cushion of extra temp HP and give the enemy disadvantage to help the temp HP last a little longer. Having Bane available for characters with high CON is great for just knocking dudes prone or driving home a Battle Master maneuver

[@unnefer001]

It also pairs nicely with the fey wanderer's 7th level ability. Can end up with the entire enemy party frightened of you.

[@noahmehringer29]

I feel like its a viable contender for Blade-lock Warlocks as it makes you a little tankier. Not as good as the Eldritch Blast build or Hex-Blade, but another viable option I believe. Especially with Deathward as a short rest recharge spell, you entire party could benefit from it.

[@Donovarkhallum]

Wouldn't you need three levels for the subclass. Otherwise it's just a level of warlock?

[@unnefer001]

@@Donovarkhallum Warlocks get their subclass at level 1.

[@PsychoSquirrel2012]

@@noahmehringer29 I'm going to try Blade Pact Undead, but the campaign also has guns, so I will be using an Eldritch hand-cannon instead of Eldritch Blast lol

[@marpheus1]

I think that what Kelly suggested, of rolling the bardic inspiration and additionally unlocking an extra thing is a good homebrew idea. But i'd add a "cost" on it by making the output of the bardic inspiration be 1 or 2 less then the actual roll. So, if you roll a 7 on a D10 BI, you get the 7th effect from the table but only a 6 or 5 bonus to your roll. That might be a little difficult to apply to BI on other people, so another idea is to "confirm" the BI, by rolling your BI and then rolling again and if you roll equal or higher to the first die you can keep the 1st dies roll. If the second die roll is lower, the BI doesn't work. (Or simply roll the BI with disadvantage)

[@Eris-MCOC]

I’m currently playing an Undead warlock/Conquest Paladin multiclass and it’s incredibly synergistic. We’re level 10 currently, so I have 7 Paladin, 3 warlock. While in form of dread, I can constantly cause fear with my melee attacks, then aura of conquest reduces my enemies’ speed to zero, allowing me to easily crush them and lock them in place. It’s a ton of fun

[@calcymon89]

Undead warlock can be a really good idea for a character following the road to become a death knight 💡 adding 1 dice to 1 attack each turn and the fear mechanic really boost a 2h warlock style character, maybe starting as lvl 1 fighter or paladin

[@GamerGrovyle]

I had barely heard about the Ravenloft addition until a player of mine played a Spirit Bard. It's very cool and almost all his summons have been able to save their bacon from my sadistic ass more than once.

[@Klaital1]

My undead warlock is blade pact melee fighter using a spear and shield with polearm master (I took one level of fighter to start with to get heavy armor proficiency and con save proficiency), all those temp hit points you get from form of dread make you pretty tanky too.

[@RobearRich]

I'm really excited to see Laudna playing the subclass in Critical Role! Some of those later abilities are definitely going to lead to some crazy shenanigans.

[@lmungillo]

I was thinking the same thing! Is Dorian a spirits bard?

[@RobearRich]

@@lmungillo I think he is a College of Swords bard.

[@Phiro00]

She multiclassed into shadow sorcerer and i believe as her latest level up she took a sorcerer level. Seems like she wont prioritize warlock levels much.

[@anix712]

@@RobearRich thus far, we really have no idea what subclasses he is. He certainly *plays* like a swords bard, but he's never used the swords bards maneuver things (the name escapes me atm), which he would definitely have at his level.

[@malogranatum4914]

@@anix712 “Flourishes,” I think they’re called. Sounds right at least.

[@rns7426]

I liked the idea of the subclass. I wasn’t sold on the abilities when I read through it. After watching this, I’m sold, very convincing on the numbers here. Thanks for opening this back up to me.

[@adamhunter1223]

One thing that I think should be mentioned about the undead warlock: if I understood spirit projection right, you could pop out of your body, have a party member cast invisibility on you, and now you're an *invisible, flying ghost with some damage resistance that can move through walls*. The spying potential is huge, but even better, if you can manifest your body wherever your spirit is, you can infiltrate fit to put a rogue to shame. Dealing with a castle siege? Float on into the gatehouse, bamf your body in after you, open the gate and dimension door back out. On the defending side of a siege? Float invisibly on down to the enemy commander's tent while they're sleeping, bypassing the guards, and gank them, or at least take your best shot and then just poof back to your body.

[@CreationsFlare]

To anyone in the comments: do you actually burn through your inspirations? I feel like once you get Font of Inspiration on a main Bard (which Spirits urges you to stay loyal to Bard), its kind of hard to burn through all of your BIs unless you were specifically going for one effect. Which is kind of against the spirit of the random stories and how flexible Bard is to stockhold that story until ready. I think its a B- because it has problems but I don't really see the BI limit beyond multiclassing with it: which you really shouldn't. A terrible multiclass option. That and it had a weird conflicting ruling that really limited where that d6 could apply to considering how spellcasting focuses often work.

[@stephhanley3167]

I have played many bards, and I have never run out of Bi once hitting level five. With Tasha's introduction of the Rhythm Maker's Drum which gives you +1 BI, you'll never run out. Like the Battle Master Fighter's Superiority Dice and the Warlock's Pact Magic, Tales From Beyond is a suite of spells that you can freely cast and regain on short rests. Is this better than base BI, maybe. But, it effectively doubles your volume of spells you can cast. Giving a Tale is an action, which means you can bestow a tale, and give someone BI on the same turn! So, to reiterate, Spirit bards can use two BI on a single turn! No other college can do this! Something to think about.

[@flandequeso4847]

I always try to burn through them by using them to support skill checks, because I'm aware that I'm rarely going to run out without being able to get them back on a short rest.

[@barryward2128]

No because the people I play with tend to forget they have inspiration so I tend to not bother giving it out lol

[@Mary_Studios]

If people used it more when I gave it to them from when I played a bard I probably would burn it but because people didn't I tend to use it only for cutting words when I got hurt or if another party member got hurt badly enough but that didn't happen too much because we had two fighters and one was a barbarian-fighter multiclass and I was often in the air because I was an Aaracokra.

[@derekhandson351]

My DM is letting me get an Inspiration at each level lol. I don't know how the hell I'm going to spend them all

[@digifreak90]

Something I didn't realize until watching this, is that a strategy I'd heard with the Spirit Projection ability is to use it with Vampiric Touch for 1-to-1 life drain (50% from Vampiric Touch, 50% from Spirit Projection). Unfortunately, this strategy can't work because both Spirit Projection and Vampiric Touch require Concentration so they can't both be active at the same time.

[@roronoa1243]

Really really easy fix for Spirits is just to make the feature a number of uses per day equal to prof mod. Also just make Spirit Session give you an extra single spell a day, that would actually be powerful and fun. Getting ANY 5th level or below spell is such good flexibility for THE flexibility spellcaster.

[@n0etic_f0x]

I have to say letting magic users have unique foci is one of the best ways to make a distinct magic user. A candle in place of a wand for instance grants a light source as a cantrip and as the DM that light source can do whatever you want. It can cast anything from normal candlelight to giving only your party members true sight up to 500 feet (OP I know it is just to make a point) the most creative I have seen is the body of a ferret, it had the ability of being able to move around like a normal ferret if in a 5-foot radius of the caster. and yes the spells did come out of the ferret itself, it was at once overpowered and a major handicap. Being that the creature was not healed it could be easily kicked away from the caster and after it got 5 feet away it turned into a rigid ferret corpse.

[@taijutsumaster15]

I've been playing a College of Spirits Bard for a couple of months now and while I agree the randomness of the Tales from Beyond feature makes it a bit unstable, there is something that is misunderstood about it. The description says you can only retain one tale at a time. However, once you use your action to bestow the tale to an ally or use it on yourself; it is no longer being retained. There is also no ruling saying you can only have one active at a time so you can technically have multiple tales being used at once. This class however does require a lot of experience and strategy to make good, balanced use of the Tales effects and Bardic Inpirations so it might not be the best for new players. I've only gotten 5 levels in this class so I've yet to experience the rest of the class features. So far I've enjoyed playing this character a lot and look forward to getting those seance spells. Edit: I still gave the class just a B ranking due to it being unstable and complicated for newer players.

[@troyyrob]

I agree with this. I play in a campaign with a Spirits Bard and she rolls her tale at the beginning of every day so she has it retained until we rest again. The level 6 feature helps her do more damage and healing. Spirit Sessions has also given a ton of versatility. Somedays we can speak to the people we kill, sometimes she can heal really well, sometimes she can revive people, and sometimes she can even summon spirits of the dead to fight with us. Spirit Sessions is basically a limited, but adjustable version of Magical Secrets.

[@DungeonDudes]

No, you can only have one active at a time: ".... rolling on the Spirit Tales table immediately ends the effect of the previous tale."

[@taijutsumaster15]

@@DungeonDudes Ok, so, I went to check on the sourcebook and online and you're correct. The dndbeyond app (which is what I more commonly use) shows a shorter version of the class feature description that does not mention that ruling, but the sourcebook and webpage on dndbeyond for the class do. My bad! 😅

[@tennysondiaz-campbell8155]

I have a battle master fighter 6/undead warlock 4 and putting these abilities on a martial is insane. He pinned down a black dragon in a corner while the rest of party messed it up. Top tier subclass. Also made his deal with an arch-lich so amazing role-play yied to it as well

[@ChefVelmoor]

So something not brought up with the bard is that the lvl 6 ability to add a d6 to a spell, was the added bit about the spell being cast through the focus. RAW a spell focus is used to replace material components in a spell. Even accounting for something you take from magical secrets, there is only one spell that restores hp with material components and that is regenerate. Which may prove to be less useful than one had hoped.

[@freddylisy10]

I feel that the husk is fair to get one levels of exhaustion and the 1d4 days drawback because you are getting back up with 1 and blasting people of your choice with out a saving throw dealing 2d10 necrotic damage and they just take it that’s really good so it has albeit harsh drawback

[@GabrielMillerd]

I do the bardic inspiration as “roll your d6, if you like it use it and stop rolling, if you are allowed to roll another die and didn’t use the d6 result roll it.”So you roll 6, decide, 8 decide, 10 decide depending on your level those low levels are available and you have more access. All with one point spent.

[@tenfoldgambit9372]

The spirits bard in my party used tale of the runaway to save *the entire party* from a line of radiant dragon breath, sparing everyone from a very painful hit. Super awesome ability with great potential, and guaranteed to make some fun memories.

[@Big_Man_Enjoyer]

I’m so glad I have you guys to help me critically think about these classes; when you were going over the spirits bard stuff I was like “oh cool” and then all the kinda grimy drawbacks clicked for me Oh well… guess it’s back to lore bard again lmao

[@troyyrob]

Please see my comment above. I think they oversold the drawbacks. Sure, it isn't mechanically as easy to use as Cutting Words, but the table is flavorful and its effects can also be used on yourself (healing, temp hp, teleportation, etc.) Additionally, the Level 6 features essentially make Spirits Bard: - the only Bard that gets a boost to their own spell casting damage or healing - the only Bard that can effectively change one of its 'Magical Secrets' - because that is what Spirit Sessions is - a limited but albeit changeable (daily) Magical Secret.

[@keksjanik2138]

I am playing a spirits bard and many of the points they made (burning through your bi, the Tales being to random, the tales going away when you Roll for new ones -> they dont since they only Go away after you USE the second one) are not the things I dislike when I play this subclass, but the thing that make the class pop since you have so many different Options for assist. And giving Out a normal bi + guidance at range feels damn awesome (cannot understand how they ignored this fact, the first few times I did this my party went wait you can always give out both?). Also Mass healing word going from 1d4+ Cha to 1d6+1d4+Cha is pretty fucking good. Also makes vicious mockery Not total Trash (yes I Said it, Fight me. The flavor being cool does not undercut the fact that the dmg is shit + it only counts for one attack) since the damage gets a nice boost at Level 6.

[@gabapc]

​@@keksjanik2138 On Tales from Beyond> "You can retain only one of these tales in mind at a time"

[@keksjanik2138]

@@gabapc yes, and when you told it, its not in your mind anymore.

[@gabapc]

@@keksjanik2138 rolling on the spirit tables = you substitute any tale in your mind for the one you just rolled AND you lose the effects of any tale that you "told".

[@BlackShadow1991]

Good stuff, Dudes, as always :)

[@davidresnick]

as other's have said, it'd be great if you also included the how it matches up w/other subclasses graphics on these

[@christophermcquarrie9148]

I play an undead pact warlock and I describe it as a barbarian-like warlock. It is SO good and I love the roleplay aspect of it.

[@Quickieq7]

I have an Undead Warlock. And, I love it!

[@SwitchFeathers]

A very simple (homebrew but main game and balance friendly, I'd argue) solution to the Tales from Beyond problem, where you roll your inspiration die to get a random effect, is to allow players the option - if they want - of rolling a lower level bardic die on the table. For instance, if somebody has a bard with a D8 inspiriation die, they could choose to either roll a D8, D6 or a D4 on the table. Picking a smaller die does mean locking yourself out of bigger abilities, but it ensures more reliability with the weaker abilities. If players want the better abilities, they have to gamble for them, but if they just want something specific from the lower end of the tree, they can choose to roll a smaller die to increase their chances.

[@markcarpenter6020]

As a warlock you can get animate dead (1/day) at lvl 5 so you can easily have a zombie or Skelly to help you with crowd control and set up for a cloud kill. Also do t forget warlocks get eldritch concentration which makes it harder for their concentration to be broken.

[@seanferris2571]

'perhaps we judged it too harshly' Uh yes. Definitely - I've been playing it for several months and the tales are great. I do have a forgiving DM who has given me a magic item that recharges bardic inspiration which gets over the opportunity cost of using tales but still even before that the randomness was worth embracing. Also the seance feature is great too. I think there was too much emphasis in the video on having too few pcs to obtain decent spells - with 6 in the party you do get something like eyebite or even at 3rd level you get summon undead. There's loads of good divination spells too. And if you are short on people, RPing grabbing people off the street for a seance or forcing captured kobolds to take part. It says 'willing creatures' but a kind of cake or death scenario can ensue. I love this subclass for the 'I see dead people' alone.

[@jf_kein_k8590]

A good idea with the Spirit Projection is then to have one of your teammates to stuff your body into a Bag of Holding to avoid it being damaged, since you don't need to breathe you can't suffocate in there.

[@greedlockhardt2090]

Yeah... in my campaign we really did homebrew this subclass to make it a lot better. We now can roll on the table on any use of bardic inspiration, plus in progress buffs don't end if we roll on the table a second time.

[@loganphillips2166]

Undead warlock, last battle and the cleric kept me in a bag of holding. Then boom ghost me shoots out of the bag and zips around blasting.

[@artzivon]

I play this with Dhampir lineage . Neat combo.

[@artzivon]

Undead

[@unbornstd]

these are my errata for college of spirits that i'm considering in my own game Tales from beyond - add. When a player uses your bardic inspiration you may use the result to determine a tale from the spirit tales table. Spirit session - add. You may choose a spell known among players you performed the ritual with.

[@obsidious9809]

I'm currently playing a spirit bard thats fresh out of police academy and this is set during the victorian era.

[@xSilentStrangerx]

Oof. The Spirits Bard is even worse because of it's line of text "a spell using your spellcasting focus" which means only material bard spells benefit. The poor Spirits massacred the lad! T_T But I do think the Tales are strong enough and impactful enough to be worth an inspiration. Great content as always Dudes! Thank you! Fun fact: the UA version of Undead Warlock had no limit to the times it could proc the extra necrotic damage. =)

[@pdonettes]

I love how it takes you guys 5 minutes to fix a subclass in simple ways.

[@Micah_4D]

Summon Shadowspawn, Fury type, and send it after your perpetually frightened foes for some nice 1d12 + 3 + spell-level cold damage.

[@JamescMichel]

I think the best way to improve Tales from Beyond is to allow the bard (on a long rest) to choose 6 options available to create a customized table. When the bard then uses Bardic Inspiration, they can trigger a 1d6 roll and have the corresponding option trigger until they roll again, after a short or long rest, or if the bard falls unconscious.

[@thenewpeterv]

A 1 level dip into the warlock subclass alone is a great choice, even if you dont have a particularly good charisma score. Any melee class will find frequent use for it as a multi class.

[@joshuatran1556]

In the UA, the 14th level spirits Bard ability allowed you to roll an infinite amount of times on the table so long as you used a d6.

[@birubu]

I will say that spending 4 hours to Death Ward your party without costing any additional resources is pretty nice

[@PsychoSquirrel2012]

In an upcoming game, I will be playing an Aarakocra Undead Warlock with Pact of the Blade, but I will be using a gun as my pact weapon.

[@Battleguild]

We have both the Undead and the Undying Warlock, but neither have access to a non-Invocation Animate Dead. (The one exception by allowing background spells from the Golgari of the Ravnica book.)

[@bunnieseatliverspots]

I really like the College of Spirits Bard. As a player, I’m drawn to subclasses that give me a large variety of things to do on my turn. Having the ability to regularly roll for a random “spell” effect - and being able to swap a spell (albeit from a limited list) every short rest - gives me that variety. Not to mention, bardic inspiration doesn’t start feeling impactful until later levels, in my opinion. Adding a d6 or even a d8 to a roll usually shakes out to a few extra points. Sometimes that’s enough to change the outcome - but often it’s not. That said, you can make the argument that the spirit bard falls off at higher levels. But where it lacks mechanical strength, I think it makes up with fun factor.

[@Wolfphototech]

*Thank you for adding the i don't know option .* *( It should have always been a option , see the % of people using it ) .*

[@bjarnivalur6330]

Oh boy, can't wait to see the Strixhaven Subclasses... ... oh wait.

[@smoktus]

A friend of mine is playing a muticlassed Undead Warlock / Necromancer Wizard. A Harengon Lich accompanied by flock of zombies, scaring the shit out of everything around? Yeee, kinda stronk :D

[@LoboDibujante]

Updated tier list (regarding both The Dungeon Dudes and the users): S TIER - Path of the Totem Warrior (Barbarian) - College of Lore (Bard) - Peace Domain (Cleric) - Twilight Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Moon (Druid) - Battle Master (Fighter) - Echo Knight (Fighter) - Gloom Stalker Conclave (Ranger) - Aberrant Mind (Sorcerer) - Clockwork Soul (Sorcerer) - Divine Soul (Sorcerer) - The Hexblade (Warlock) - School of Divination (Wizard) A+ TIER - Armorer (Artificer) - Life Domain (Cleric) - Rune Knight (Fighter) - Oath of Vengeance (Paladin) - Arcane Trickster (Rogue) - Soulknife (Rogue) - Swashbuckler (Rogue) - The Fiend (Warlock) - The Genie (Warlock) - Bladesinging (Wizard) - Chronurgy Magic (Wizard) A TIER - Artillerist (Artificer) - Battle Smith (Artificer) - Path of the Ancestral Guardian (Barbarian) - Path of the Zealot (Barbarian) - College of Eloquence (Bard) - Forge Domain (Cleric) - Grave Domain (Cleric) - Light Domain (Cleric) - Tempest Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Shepherd (Druid) - Circle of the Stars (Druid) - Circle of the Wildfire (Druid) - Eldritch Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Open Hand (Monk) - Way of Shadow (Monk) - Way of Mercy (Monk) - Oath of the Ancients (Paladin) - Oath of Conquest (Paladin) - Oathbreaker (Paladin) - Beast Master Conclave (TCE) (Ranger) - Horizon Walker Conclave (Ranger) - Swarmkeeper Conclave (Ranger) - Scout (Rogue) - Shadow Magic (Sorcerer) - *The Undead (Warlock)* - School of Abjuration (Wizard) - School of Enchantment (Wizard) - Order of Scribes (Wizard) B+ TIER - Path of the Beast (Barbarian) - College of Creation (Bard) - Cavalier (Fighter) - Psi Warrior (Fighter) - Way of the Kensei (Monk) - Way of the Astral Self (Monk) - Oath of Devotion (Paladin) - Oath of Redemption (Paladin) - Oath of the Watchers (Paladin) - Fey Wanderer Conclave (Ranger) - Phantom (Rogue) - Draconic Bloodline (Sorcerer) - Wild Magic (Sorcerer) - The Archfey (Warlock) - The Celestial (Warlock) - The Fathomless (Warlock) - School of Evocation (Wizard) - School of Illusion (Wizard) - School of Necromancy (Wizard) B TIER - Alchemist (Artificer) - Path of the Storm Herald (Barbarian) - College of Glamour (Bard) - College of Swords (Bard) - College of Valor (Bard) - Nature Domain (Cleric) - Order Domain (Cleric) - Trickery Domain (Cleric) - War Domain (Cleric) - Circle of Dreams (Druid) - Circle of the Land (Druid) - Champion (Fighter) - Samurai (Fighter) - Way of the Long Death (Monk) - Oath of Glory (Paladin) - Hunter Conclave (Ranger) - Assassin (Rogue) - Mastermind (Rogue) - Thief (Rogue) - The Great Old One (Warlock) - School of Conjuration (Wizard) C+ TIER - Path of the Wild Magic (Barbarian) - College of Whispers (Bard) - *College of Spirits (Bard)* - Arcana Domain (Cleric) - Death Domain (Cleric) - Knowledge Domain (Cleric) - Circle of Spores (Druid) - Arcane Archer (Fighter) - Way of the Drunken Master (Monk) - Oath of the Crown (Paladin) - Monster Slayer Conclave (Ranger) - Inquisitive (Rogue) - Storm Sorcery (Sorcerer) - Graviturgy Magic (Wizard) - School of Transmutation (Wizard) - War Magic (Wizard) C TIER - Path of the Battlerager (Barbarian) - Path of the Berserker (Barbarian) - Way of the Sun Soul (Monk) D+ TIER - The Undying (Warlock) D TIER - Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Four Elements (Monk) - Beast Master Conclave (PHB) (Ranger)

[@gabapc]

I hope people reading this understands that this list doesn't work to compare subclasses from different classes, for example to say fighter champion is better than any cleric. People might think the DDs are out of their minds otherwise

[@LoboDibujante]

@@gabapc That'd be true, if the subclasses were ranked regarding just other subclasses within the same class. But the criteria are the same for all classes.

[@gabapc]

​@@LoboDibujante the criteria are the same, but they are comparing them just with subclasses within the same classes, they do it every video. No way they are considering some clerics a tier C character, they mean its a tier C Cleric. the C tier cleric subclasses are tier C subclass within Cleric, not within all subclasses. It would be interesting to see how they would rank each subclass overall, but its not this list. Edit: 1:50

[@LoboDibujante]

​@@gabapc A B tier cleric is the same as a B tier warlock or a B tier fighter: decent perks that provide an useful niche, S-tier in the right campaign. The list is reflecting that. Of course some clases could be overall better, but that isn't this tier list. Also, are you gonna comment the same on every video? This is the second time.

[@gabapc]

@@LoboDibujante 1:50 hmm yea i did try this before right? when was it? feels like a months ago. well i can stop if it really bothers you. You just need to convince me better, what am i understanding wrong when i hear the DDs say 1:50? Want to bet if the DDs really share that opinion that a B tier cleric is in a same universal tier than a B tier fighter? Ok sorry, you don't need to convince me, ill stop anyway. I don't think I will change your opinion. And I'm thankful for the useful list to not needing to look up past videos to get the info i wanted, that Spirit Bard is lower than Sword Bard damn

[@jackobanter4031]

I got to say hard disagree on the spirits bard. I think you guys may have limited it in your heads a bit. If you think of your spirit table as something to fish for your going to be disappointed. However, if you spend an inspiration on a roll in the morning and hold that tale in your head all day, I find more more often then not I have a really good use for most of the options during any given day. Also for the free spell you guys are discounting the power of the bard. Its not about having to find willing npcs to get those higher level spells. I sold tickets to my rituals as an exclusive performance for those interested in experiencing the occult. Plus there are tons of great necromancy spells to choose from. Especially at higher Levels. Bestow curse, inflict wounds, revivafy, summon undead, negative energy flood, even soul cage and harm if you get crazy high up there like I almost am. The only example you gave was animate dead. Come on guys.

[@DM.Witted]

Also the Seance ability can pick up some really good divination and necromancy spells, even if limited to level 3, like Revivify, Mind Spike, and of course Speak with Dead.

[@andrewzachar]

Regarding the Tales From Beyond interaction with temporary hit points, I would rule it as an instantaneous effect, and even if you were to roll on the Spirits Table the target would retain the temporary hit points as usual. Most of the tales specify a duration, 1 minute, end of its next turn, etc. Tale of the Traveler specifies that the target gains temporary hit points, but gives no duration. It could be argued that the speed and AC increase would be an effect of the tale and cease if you were to role on the table, but I would rule it as a feature of those temporary hit points that would continue while the temporary hit points remained.

[@effotrikix7052]

Shit I was waiting for this, thanks DDudes!

[@TheFrozenite]

I know traditionally you both only review official products, but I’m curious if you guys would consider some of the more popular or received third party content for review. Example being, MCDM and their two classes, the “Illrigger” and the newly released “Beastheart”. They also have their own slue of subclasses as well and some new mechanics that is love to see your views and thoughts on. If not that’s cool too, keep up the great work. You guys give excellent content weekly and I’ve come to respect your rankings as some of the most fair on KZbin.

[@zach8596]

I think the way to play that Bard is to use that ability once then just use bardic inspiration.

[@Mabujold]

You forgot the HUGE amount of healing you can receive from the Spirit Projection feature. Combined with the resistances you become extremely hard to kill. Also the undead warlock was definitely created with the idea of being able to go fight with spells like vampiric touch and do very well.

[@brotherjorge3]

I’m going to make an NPC College of Spirits. She’ll be using the skull of one of my old characters and have some interaction between her, my dead character, and the party.

[@carolxs]

I have a player wanting to play College of Spirits, I'm going to house rule that she does not spend her bardic inspiration for Tales. I think for role play it's an amazing class

[@jayday545]

If I’m not mistaken as a DM I could allow for the bard to roll the entire table instead of limiting them unless that is game breaking. I’m sure there has to be some fairly good ways to home brew a balanced solution to make this class very nice.

[@TheDylls]

Although he doesn't EXACTLY fit, the character Fiddler from Malazan makes me think of a college of spirits bard

[@erelat]

I was just going to let the Bard roll 2 dice to choose their Tale from (3 dice at level 9) and allow a second effect while not have the previous effect diminish if a different target. It is then not the tale being told through you, but one of the spirits goes to whisper it to the recipient. It becomes "A" tier for me after that.

[@gaminreasons8941]

For the most part, I like the Undead Warlock, It's 1st level and 6th level abilities are fun, it's really only the drawbacks of the 10th level ability and the annoying stipulations of the 14 level ability (I mean, without your equipment that includes your magic items, unless you're allowed to loot yourself as a ghost but that's just kinda annoying.) I think the spell list is good, not every spell is a winner but most of them good if not useful.

[@foxfire7]

Regardless of how good the Undead warlock is, I feel like it's going to be one of the more popular option for some reasons.

[@JCinLapel]

I am playing a Undead patron warlock and funny enough I didnt even think of doing a blaster. I went pact of the blade and used the Temp HP to be a Tanklock. Using thing like two weapon combat with a pact weapon short sword and off hand dagger with hex to deal damage and then the frighten and war caster to make them stay at disadvantage to attack and then opportunity attack with booming blade hex damage on top of the weapon damage

[@dolphinsniper]

Honestly, when I heard the Undead Warlock giving you free frightens, my first thought was 'wow, this is a great dip for a Conquest Paladin'. I'm not the only one that thought that, right?

[@afasdfasafd314]

a great multiclass idea is 1 lv of undead warlock and 7 lvs in paladin oath of conquest.

[@GrumpyGrobbyGamer]

I can’t wait to play the warlock subclass

[@gabapc]

Every rpg table is different, the DDs are talking about the ones where Bards run out of inspiration cuz their allies need it to hit things and pass saving throws. Not the ones where allies don't remember they have BIs. In many tables, passing saving throws to not be CCed is very important

[@gabreallia450]

If College of Spirits Bard had a separate pool for their story table that equaled to their cha mod or proficiency, the subclass would be infinitely better imo. It can keep the "only one feature can be active at a time" clause, since most DMs I know wouldn't be a dick if you dumped your party member's temp hp out of forgetfulness. That way it's more useful and you can't spam it too much.

[@thebitterfig9903]

Or even one use for free per short rest but every additional use requires spending a Bardic Inspiration die.

[@bukharagunboat8466]

I like Phantom Steed as a Warlock spell. To be honest I'd like to see a Pact Boon that grants a steed, with invocations to upgrade it to a Nightmare at 15th level or so. Not unreasonable given that Dilvish is one of the inspirations for this class.

[@melissazadrozny5167]

College of Spirits might be C tier, but it's still by far the coolest Bard.

[@TheClericCorner]

"I'm fun scary!"

[@gamer_hempy]

My friend is playing a Undead warlock that uses disguise self to play as a teddy bear that is going on an adventure

[@marcc.866]

Multiclassing with Oath of Conquest offers potential.

[@Ketharuil]

Remember that Bards don't actually get wands, staffs, and other arcane focuses. They have to use instruments, which can be pretty annoying, especially since they are often two handed.

[@DanSolo41]

Around 27:30: "It's hard to convince a warlock to spend one of their very limited spell slots on Misty Step." I play AL with a warlock who just about only uses their spell slots to cast Misty Step. Then again, they're going for a Nightcrawler teleport style, with a melee weapon, and Armor of Agathys via a Ring of Spell Storing. (Race is Tiefling, even). Probably one of the few warlock players who would ever do that, mind.

[@danielz811]

not a comment on potency but: Modern day game with college of spirits bard camp counselor

[@grizzlednerd4521]

Re College of Spirits: A kind/reasonable DM may allow a bard player to roll a inspiration die lower than what their level currently specifies even though that's not RAW.

[@32Loveless50]

The Undead Warlock is good, also as a multiclass. made a Death knight by using 4 lvl Paladin Oathbreaker, then Undead Lock and Shadow Sorcerer. :) for main attacks he uses Booming blade, Green Flame Blade and Swordburst for melee and Eldritch blast with Grasp of Hader to pull one enemy closer :D ofc for spells defensive spells like Shield and Absorb Elements, so really tanky.

[@rcschmidt668]

How many of us upon hearing Form of Dread thought, “I am the law!” LOL

[@sorenwinter5280]

Is there a compilation of all the DD subclass tier rankings somewhere? It would be really useful for a subclass balancing project I'm working on.

[@DungeonDudes]

Here is the playlist kzbin.info/aero/PLQMqiULo_05Pf9RknbcprM6tJwOcxO6N4

[@sorenwinter5280]

@@DungeonDudes thanks for the quick reply! I was hoping for a list or chart compiling all rankings to date, but I can go through the videos and make one myself.