Subs Vs. Dubs: THE TRUTH

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[@MarkusScheme]

im loving how prolific you’ve been recently, please keep going!

[@SpaceLionGold]

Laura Bailey has three main styles - Lust, Keiko, and Trunks. Talented but easily recognizable. It can break immersion when you've distinctly heard the same voice before.

[@WeWatchAnime1]

And Sana Kurata, her best role

[@LastEsis]

Recently I've been going through Kill la Kill (subbed) again and I feel like every performance of every character is great, if you need an example of a show where every line is memorable that would be it for me. Kill la Kill is a miraculous anime in how every part of the production is at a 10/10 level of quality all the time.

[@ps3wizard45]

>do you watch anime to connect with yourself or the creator This is a really fascinating question, I think it deserves a full video if you haven't already.

[@Jalae]

i like that subs separate the semantic and emotional aspects of vocal communication across 2 different inputs to my brain.

[@seraph_77]

I think you make a good point about being true to the original artistic intention but I think its also possible for the dub of a show to realize that intention in a way that goes beyond making the dialogue more accessible. It's not an anime but I often think about the movie Death of Stalin, where the different accents of the british actors serves as a stand-in for the differing accents that the russian leadership would have had in those days. There is so much cultural text in those accents that would be utterly lost on anyone who didn't speak english fluently enough to notice. And the only way to preserve that in bringing the movie to a foreign audience would be to use a diversity of accents from that language to reflect the same thing. This especially true for something like Dandadan. I strongly prefer the dub for dandadan specifically because the sort of cultural nuances of the way different people speak is more visible when I hear it in english. If someone is speaking in a casual or a formal way, I can't hear that at all in japanese, but it comes through very clearly in the english. And though I'm aware of the cultural implications of Okarun switching between "Ayase-san" and "Momo-chan", that would be totally lost on a casual viewer if they watched the sub. But if they watched the dub, he switches between simply "Miss.Ayase" and "Momo" respectively and thus that element of cultural nuance is actually preserved in the dub *moreso* than it would be if a casual viewer experienced the sub only.

[@pablocasas5906]

Speaking about Dan Da Dan, I find it interesting that in other languages the anime received more that one dub, one for Netflix and another one for Crunchyroll and as a Latin American Spanish-speaker I found it really interesting how different they are in terms of adapting the script,. The two dubs were done in Mexico, but with different casts, Netflix's version felt more like a direct dub, not really changing any dialogue, while Crunchyroll's version allowed the translators and actors to add some jokes and references and using some slang words, not to mention that CR's version did adapt the songs which were featured in the anime, while Netflix's dub kept those moments in Japanese, it was actually nice that when Okarun and Jiji sang the Slam Dunk OP and ED songs in Crunchyroll's version they used the original lyrics from the translated covers when Slam Dunk was aired in Latin America, that was nice detail

[@CaribouCoon]

I definitely agree with this angle and it was ultimately my angle for my Nausicaa Dub video, arguing it's best as an experience rather than trying to closer understand it on a creator basis, though I don't think that means dubs impede appreciating the vast majority of aspects like direction and designs and backgrounds and music (unless it's a dub that changes the music), or I guess what you meant was production of voice acting in particular? I agree voice acting overall is taken more seriously in Japan and it's on average better as a result, though I've definitely come to appreciate the nuances of anime dubs, which is more than just Austin Texas I think that's a very lazy generalization. Tons of it gets done in LA obviously, and NYAV Post in New York is the highest quality industry standard period, who realize the homogeny in the industry and I think manage to avoid it. I don't know of an equivalent system in Japan tbh, I think it's interesting to be able to look at what company is dubbing it and know "oh that one's probably really good" or "that one has got to suck." Learning about not just the dub actors but certain ADR directors that guided those dubs to success so that while it's not a 10 every single line it wouldn't go below a 7.

[@thatonelucariofan503]

That Naussica video was❤🔥 I agree with the idea about how subs are great for getting to understand the creator’s intent, but I also agree with what you are saying, that dubs can still be valueable for accessibility and experience. I showed some anime to my parents and they absolutely prefer dub, so we did dub and I could tell they valued the story even in dub form. There is also some times I enjoy dubs. I sometimes watch one of my faves Amagi Brilliant Park, in dub form instead of sub, because I have crushes on some of the male fairy mascots, and sometimes hearing their English voices allows me to fantasize that I’m there, easier. I would always recommend people to watch Amagi as both subbed and Dubbed and go with the one that is most pleasant to you. (besides, why deprive yourself of the opportunity to watch it twice~) Then there’s also some dubs that I think are really good and capture the heart of the original, Naussica is definitely one of those as are many Ghibli films where Disney was involved, I think those dubs are super valuable because they basically helped Ghibli’s films to be as approachable as Disney films, to normies. I absolutely love the Porco Rosso Dub. They have Michael Keaton as the lead cute piggy himself, they have the Madame played by Belle from Beauty and the Beast / White Diamond from Steven Universe, Lots of great actors in that dub so I am fond of it. It’s not perfect but, I really love Porco Rosso’s dub

[@noampresnete8677]

i think it's the most underated part of both jp and english dubs is voice direction. there are shows like demon slayer where despite having almost 100% s tier actors, they barely have any memorable scenes in terms of acting. on the other hand, a show like girls band cry can have very memorable acting scenes despite all the actors being newcomers that weren't scouted based on acting skill.

[@montymist]

I was initially curious how you would explain but the line "Do you watch anime to connect with yourself or with the people that create it" is a perfect summary for me. It perfectly explains my thought process when im watching both the sub and a dub version of an anime i love.

[@LimeyLassen]

I think of dubs as an accessibility feature. I'm glad they exist, it's great, I have no use for them.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

The Voice of Acting in Texas Based Anime Dubs appeals to my personal taste in Acting more then anything else being commonly produced today. It's not that I hate other kinds of Acting, the stuff in Contemporary Hollywood Movies and TV Shows and American Cartoons and the Japanese Audio is all good. But what I crave the most is that more Theatrically Trained Style. And that's also a factor in why I love old Biblical/Historical Epics, as well many lower biggest take son the same Genre like the 60s BBC Caesars Miniseries. It's also why the 200 Dune Miniseries is still my favorite Dune Adaptations along with it's Children of Dune Sequel.

[@TheObicobiHD]

For me its not just anime, I'd say in general, I personally enjoy watching any foreign films; cartoons, movies and the like in their original languages. I want to see the intended performances, intent, or as close as I can interpret the art through subtitled translation. Im glad the option for dubs exist, for those who want it, for those who dislike reading subs/maybe they are impaired and cannot, I think thats wondeful! It also bugged me in regards to some video games but moreso anime, changing lines, or in some cases straight up changing plot points in shows, I don't mean localization, actual large writing mistakes (Attack on Titan had huge problems in its sesson 1-2 dub) Great video Trixie! As others have said, love the content, these videos are fun. Share it around lads 💜👏🎶🖊📒

[@john-lenin]

Anything is better than the Saturday Morning Cartoon voices of English dubs.

[@pablocasas5906]

@@john-lenin regarding cartoons, as a non-English speaker I alwas found it interesting that English anime dubs are mainly done by VAs who seem to only specialize in anime, and maybe video games, though it seems that nowadays they also tend to dub Western animated shows. And I'm saying this as someone who grew up watching dubs of cartoons, live-action series and movies and anime, and it didn't take me too long to distinguish ceratin voices across different media, I think the first voice I managed to identify was that of Laura Torres, a Mexican voice actress who is famous for voicing kid Goku and his sons in Dragon Ball, as well as Tommy Pickles in Rugrats, Shippo in Inuyasha, Nobita in Doraemon, Ralph Wiggum and Martin Prince in The Simpsons, Mai Valentine in Yu-Gi-Oh!, Daria Morgendorffer in Daria, and for dubing actresses like Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor and Viola Davis as Amanda Waller. Even to this day I sometimes find it kind of amazing how she manages to change her voice depending on the character

[@Never_Know_Best]

All I really feel the need to say on this matter is, animation is a hyper-visual medium. Every landscape and minute movement of the face was crafted the way it was by human hands. So from my perspective, I will get closest to taking in the intended experience by not looking at subtitles. This is tricky, of course, since there continue to be issues with dubs that will take me out of the show/movie. But if one is well executed, my native language will be my preference.

[@michaelfrails]

Dan Da Dan’s dub has two good performances and it’s from the main two characters.

[@thatonelucariofan503]

This is so funny with how it’s worded and also completely accurate 😂👍

[@Periwinklesandlilacs]

Maybe its because I don't have the attention for it, but when I do watch anime, I just can't appreciate all of the things that make it anime while reading subtitles. There's a lot going on visually and auditorially beyond rhe voice work that I don't think I can lend my brain power to processing actively while reading dialogue. That's my main problem with the act of consuming dubbed anime. As for the rest, I simply concede that I'm already one layer removed the moment it has to be translated at all. I'm not saying the original work doesn't matter to me at that point, just that I can accept that the product I'm experiencing is going to be different either way, so I prefer the one that's easier to digest. If the comfort I take trying to enjoy the work destroys it in some way then it isn't worth experiencing for me, though. That last part in particular is why I started learning Japanese at all about a year ago.

[@StoneCresent]

I mostly watch with subtitles because a lot of older stuff was either never dubbed or poorly dubbed, plus that's how my college anime club rolled. I also think I prefer the Japanese audio aesthetically over most English dub audio. Yes, I am also annoyed how small American anime VA circles are and how the same cast members can reappear from series to series, especially from the same licensor. It's even worse when you watch multiple series back to back. I have a harder time recognizing Japanese VAs by voice, but when I do it usually doesn't detract from my experience.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

The only truth is that Subs vs Dubs is a religion. The goal of the religion, for you, is to be accepted by the group, by the community. Choosing wrong will get you labeled as a heretic, and excommunicated. It was NEVER about quality, or whether it is right to alter some artist's work a little. And in rare cases dubs improve on the original, which suffered from rough production. Like when the OG script was rushed, and a dub fixes it.

[@Blucham]

Coming up in the same era as you, watching YUYU and DBZ and all that, I know what you’re saying about the same voice actors being everywhere. (Laura Bailey is a big one for me as well!) But I LIKED hearing all the voices i’ve come to recognize over the years. Most notably the ones from Funimation, like Chris Sabat, Luci Christian, Todd Haberkorn, Colleen Clinkenbeard, Travis Willingham, etc. The 2000’s and 2010’s were stacked with them! I had a lot of fun playing “guess the VA” when I thought a voice sounded familiar. I’d make note and check the credits at the end. I wasn’t GREAT at it… maybe 50-50 accuracy, but I impressed myself! Lately, the new hit anime coming out has little, to NO familiar names or voices for me! Maybe it’s because of gaps in watching anime over the years, or the slew of new shows being pumped out nowadays. But I’ll watch new stuff like Dan Da Dan and Chainsaw man, and SWEAR that voice belongs to, like, Chris Patton! Only to find out he ain’t even in the show AT ALL! All to say: There are MANY new voice actors now. I dunno how much that matters to you in the long run, but it may be worth giving some new dubs a shot, just to see if the new pool of VA’s have that passion or acting chops you’ve been missing?

[@thatoneguy-7387]

I think this distinction between audience experience and connection with the creators also seems to apply to remakes. Like last year there was the silent hill 2 remake and the year before that there was resident evil 4. I haven't played either of those games yet but have heard people rave about the originals for years including people calling SH2 their favourite horror game. So when a remake for them comes out I honestly have no interest in playing the remake because what I want to experience is the original work that people loved so much. Even if it's more awkward to play that's part of the experience because otherwise I can't come away with an opinion on "silent hill 2" if I've only played the remake. I think this is quite a big issue in gaming because the publishers push the remakes as if they're straight upgrades that just replace the original even though in many cases they're made by completely different people and make substantial changes.

[@ps3wizard45]

I think bottom line there's nothing more authentic and pure than watching sub, BUT people like Michael Tatum who are fluent in Japanese, do all the localizing, script, oversee casting, voice direction and voice act himself in a show like Steins;Gate seem to take special care to do their best to bridge the gap between languages and minimize what gets lost in translation. Obviously not every dub is taken that seriously, but I always bring this up when people try to argue that even shitty rushed mtx fansubs are "always better by default" even when there are instances of great care being taken in dubbing/localizing. Tl;dr there's varying degrees in quality in everything and there's utility in both subs and dubs depending on what you want to get out of your experience. It never hurts to have more options/variety imo.

[@mnnm522]

When evaluating the performance of Japanese voice actors, I do think it's important to recognize that, particularly in Japanese, realistic voice acting doesn't automatically equate to better quality acting. It largely depends on the type of story being told. For example, the highly realistic voice acting in a film like Only Yesterday is no less impressive than the exaggerated, stylized voice acting in K-On!. That is why I don't necessarily find it crucial to know day to day Japanese for assessing the quality of Japanese voice actors.

[@Dragonite43]

"do you watch anime to connect with yourself or the creator" For myself. Too often, I find that I only liked a handful of works from a creator or I only like that one particular work from them. Part of the problem is that if I watch too much of a creators works, I start to notice patterns, and it gets distracting for me. In terms of Subs vs Dubs, at least for me, I watch what's available. Like, if I really want to watch an anime, and they only have it in sub, then I will watch it in Sub. However, if the anime is dubbed, then I will watch it dubbed. Now, if the dub is bad or the dub didn't dub everything in the show, then I will watch it subbed.

[@FishyAshB]

Nowadays I don't watch either sub or dub, I watch either unsubbed or with japanese CCs as I don't have to worry about losing anything in translation. But before learning Japanese I generally watched with English subs, mainly because I want to listen to the original language performances, and I think the reason you stated was pretty much spot on. I know you weren't really talking about quality much, but for me I think the main advantage JP voice acting has over ENG voice acting is consistency. There are very few mindblowing performances but almost no bad sounding ones either. If there's a single phrase to describe Japanese voice acting, it'd be "fit for purpose".

[@bobthebuilder609]

the sub of yu yu hakusho is a COMPLETELY different show from the dub. There are so many dialog alterations, and very many liberties taken. Usually that's a bad thing, but the dub is better for it: everyone has more personality, especially yusuke, and the show is a lot funnier as a result. the trash talk is more on point, there's more dialog overall, etc. etc. other than yu yu hakusho, stein's gate, and bleach, I've not seen many shows where the dub is actually better, but I think those 3 stand out above the rest, especially yu yu hakusho

[@reolaveto6027]

I miss the video that you made about this debate while building a pizza.

[@WeWatchAnime1]

damn I don't remember that but it should still be up

[@fubbyman8476]

I haven’t watched any dubs since Vic Mignogna got metoo’d. I don’t even defend him or anything I just liked him a lot. I loved the Broly movie

[@goldengamer-b2z]

Im going to be honest i don't know why this is a debate

[@TheMrgrafixable]

Did trixshe ever explain why she's in a swamp?

[@WeWatchAnime1]

I live nearish to the Great Dismal Swamp

[@juliangrinblat955]

only tangentially related to the subject-matter, it's something that I had in the back of my head for a while and was wondering if someone would identify with this or have more insight into it, is that I feel the trend in anime has been to do less actual acting, and more about very clearly narrating lines, even in scenes where you might have more emotion involved, the lines are still pronounced too clearly, close to what you might get from an audiobook, while older anime tended to be spoken more naturally and involve more actual acting...

[@bryanc7094]

The Japanese Cast of the Original Saint Seiya anime had amazing voice actors. Totally improved the watching experience.

[@pablocasas5906]

But sadly, I think Saint Seiya's original cast was replace in the middle of the Hades Saga, I don't know how did the Japanese fandom think about that, but here in Spanish-speaking Latin America something similar happened, Toei's first dub of Saint Seiya: The Hades Saga replaced all of the original cast and the backlash was so massive that a company bought the OVAs rights and made their own dub with the original voice cast

[@funkybunko]

This is an interesting perspective but I disagree with a lot of it. I may be misinterpreting what you meant but the idea that one watches sub to connect with “the creator” and dub to connect with yourself is not one I agree with at all. Like you mention, there isn’t one “creator” for most anime, it’s always collaborative, and as someone who is obsessed with the English dubbing industry, I will often follow certain actors, studios or other staff and watch things to see what they did with it. In that way, I often watch anime to connect with a “creator”, but specifically the dub creators. “Sub on average is generally better” is basically not provable and I think just a dismissive idea. Also, the dubbing industry is vast and the idea that it’s “all done in Texas with the same group of VAs” is absolute nonsense. There are tons of English VAs who’ve worked in anime dubbing, just as many if not more than their Japanese counterparts, and dub production is pretty spread out between Texas, California, New York, Vancouver and more. This video was good to hear the perspective of someone who doesn’t watch dubs talking more rationally than the typical sub-only purist snob, but I still think most of the arguments are based on a lack of understanding and ignorance of dubbing, which is fine because not everyone has to like the same thing. Sorry for the long winded comment, this video just gave me a lot to say.

[@OccuredJakub12]

I myself, and a lot of other ppl, I assume, prefer subs because even if the Japanese voice actors are not doing better work than the western ones, they tend to put in more EMOTION and IMPACT! Dubbing an anime is difficult because the particulars of timing and tone can get lost in the translation. Even good dubs can feel kinda boring because I can tell that the VA's seem to embarassed to do a super-loud scream or a voice crack or even a bit of personality into a line.

[@LimeyLassen]

Typically audio is made first and animation is done after, so unless the production is really phoned in the animation style is tailored to the actor's performance. Dubs don't have access to this.

[@ZenHuxtable]

There's only one anime voice performance I can recall that I would say is stupendous or transcendent, it's phos from houseki no kuni

[@LimeyLassen]

Right?

[@nickl6373]

truth be told i guess i don't find the people who make my favorite anime as worthwhile to study as the people who make my favorite video games, music, and movies, so i guess your kind of right idk if i took anime as serious as you id probably never watch dubs i'd never watch old boy or the killer or German or Spanish horror movies with dubs

[@Mezzo-k1y]

Is Laura Bailey even doing much anime these days? All the really good anime dub actors seem to move on to video games and any potentially good anime dub actors take there talents to vtubing

[@mysmallnoman]

" a lot of people who watch anime don't speak Japanese so they won't recognize bad or good acting " That's like saying you need to be skilled in cooking to recognize good meals or be a game developer to be able to recognize good level design, which is dumb You can recognize good/bad things when they're good/bad because we have functional brain cells I don't need to be a game developer to recognize that DMC 2 is bad and I don't need to speak English to recognize that Elden ring voice acting is great, same thing applies to any medium made by any culture " There's no anime that has perfect acting for all VAs " Yeah.....? There's no anime that's perfect ? There's no piece of media ever that's perfect ? Lol

[@WeWatchAnime1]

You don't love other cultures' foods you've never tried. Most people are sick to eat another culture's food

[@mysmallnoman]

@WeWatchAnime1 this literally has nothing to do with what i said You don't need to be an expert in a foreign culture to realize their food is good either, you can try it and find out for yourself, my point you don't need to be super knowledgeable about something to know what it's bad/good, people not trying something foreign isn't what i was talking about

[@baka-raptor]

Eh, I'm just cheap

[@nickl6373]

idk after watching anime on regular basis for like 12 years i know like two words in Japanese and one of witch didn't even come from anime it cam from a song by the band Stix i guess i just don't want to have to read tv although i think subs are cooler i watch mostly dubs these days

[@Landon-j5q]

I'll disagree that anything acting wise in durararara was good 😂😂

[@WeWatchAnime1]

I was failing so hard to think of a show with good acting that I just landed on the one with the most actors that I could think of that I like in it

[@Landon-j5q]

@WeWatchAnime1 oh haha I see! That's fine I'm not trying to argue with you or anything! But I was like oh boy, if trixinator has to call me and befriend me about a debate on Durarara I'm gonna feel bad lmao 🤣 fucking hate that show

[@Heatranoveryou]

English anime dubs could be good and have been in the distant past. The problem is they simply arent. The way they dub, the voice choices, the directing, its all bad. Im sure theres reasons for it, cdawgva says that they make them match the lip flaps which is why it sucks. idk, but whenever i wander into an english anime dub clip i always cringe.

[@Porifera-Jaymen]

🎉

[@Serocco]

It depends. Several anime are just as good or even better in the dub like FMA, Panty and Stocking, Hellsing Ultimate, Kaguya Sama, Frieren, Cowboy Bebop, etc.

[@LondonLock]

Kaguya Sama, frieren and shit controversial but bebop really aren't particularly great

[@LimeyLassen]

The best thing in Kaguya Sama is the voice acting. It's like the whole show. I can't understand someone watching that and thinking "eh, I'd rather have the dub".

[@pablocasas5906]

In regards to the anime you mention, I find it funny that Cowboy Bebop was dubbed three times into Neutral Spanish, while Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was dubbed twice

[@muhmoonsugar9305]

If you're an EOP neither of them are any better than the other. Having learned japanese now I realize how shit subs are, and how much you don't know you're missing out on. The "translations" often feel shallow, and completely lacking in nuance. Also, the japanese voice acting while typically better than the english, is not really all that "good" either depending on the show. Subs were good when they used to add the notes over the top of the screen to explain concepts and such, whereas modern subs are just lazy as fuck..

[@mmmicholas]

I feel like a big issue that is being left out of the "debate" is that anime is not really for us in the West. Anime is intended for the native audience and we are the tertiary demographic at best. We are the peripheral fans who are more of an afterthought, even these days. So foundationally the debate feels entitled, as if they owe us a translation regardless of dub or sub. And so I always default to "Watch whichever one you vibe with because both are valid."

[@DragonBall-Manga-1984]

Watching Anime is a waste of time because American Animation is better Now

[@Ash_Wen-li]

Why not just watch the best of both? No need to stop yourself from watching great shows