Subtlety Rogue PvE Guide - Patch 7.2.5

[@ExiledPowerUS]

For any comments related to my SoD usage (in the opener,) my pot usage, the vanish bug, or the upcoming nerfs to the Sub legendaries, please see 30:14 in the video. - Marty

[@merrk2013]

hello just started a sub rogue having a hard time managing energy any tips? even just during times where everything is on CD and i am hitting backstab over and over to build up to envis i run out of energy during that time

[@anonymousa7995]

I have been watching a few rogue guides today and man... This by far is the best one. Really helped me understand the class without making it super confusing, thanks for that.

[@bojnebojnebojne]

This is probably the best guide by far for Subtlety rogue, easy to understand, good breakdown of stuff. and good scenario variation descriptions. Great vid man!

[@wesleynelson753]

Great guide! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this. You've done a great job explaining everything without it being too complicated. Other videos I've watched are far to complicated and don't do a good job of breaking it down to a basic level. Yours was simple, so thank you for that!

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Thanks, I appreciate the support. - Marty

[@feedexinfinity8055]

Amazing guide, Sub rogues are really complicated but your video explains everything perfectly, marvelous

[@tripnils7535]

Thanks for your guide man. Just leveled up my rogue since i got bored of my demon hunter. Coming from a 3 button class to rogue it's a very fun playstyle. I was a bit overwhelmed at first, but your video cleared things up.

[@SuperJay916]

Trip Nils I'm coming from a rogue now going to play a demon hunter. You-motivate me to play one bc of the 3 button spam lol

[@Sneakingsam]

If you're only pressing 3 buttons you are not playing dh right lol

[@Ceyana]

Are you really trying to tell me that it's not?

[@tommyc4641]

Brilliant video. Very thorough and informative.

[@TheFitDragon]

Just returned to Rogue and I was sin before, Sub changes over the past few patches have made it my new favorite class. Getting hotkeys right and weak auras proper is still a bit of a challenge but it's going to work out just fine. My issue with the class is finding groups. I am competitive and like to push my characters dps and so heroic / mythic raid content is something that always presents challenges. Finding a group not so much but finding a group of players I actually enjoy playing with. Thank you for the informative video.

[@Sl4ym4tr14]

Great video, I was really confused about this spec, it really needs a lot of practice, but since my first leggo were the shoulders I guess that's the spec I'm sticking with. Videp helped out a lot :)

[@AerodynamicAlex]

Huge thanks for this guide. I really understand the burst windows now, great job Marty, thanks again!

[@FlareForce1]

Nice Guide, as a former rogue player im really tempted to start one again.

[@DonaldMurf]

Nice Video. Really good job of explaining theory. I really like the the bar on the top and how you break the video down to segments.

[@dankmeme5196]

really good quality video man ! im levelling my rogue for the first time since legion because of this video Thankyou :)

[@Hefo04]

the best overall guide I've ever seen on aby class .. man ur awesome!

[@Jowsh84]

Dude..solid vid. Thanks for a thorough breakdown with each topic.

[@twotoeMJ]

Great video Marty! Thanks man. Keep up the good work.

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Thanks man. - Marty

[@lacrosseguy108]

this is exactly what i needed thanks alot. been playing assassination since the xpac same out and have not touched sub at all besides the hidden skins haha

[@idubbztv223]

Great video! Is there any way I can see the ui adding you're using to aid you for Sub rogue?

[@nerdwhitenerd]

Thank you so much! I love my rogue and have played him since vanilla. Took a break from the class to check out demon hunter (i know im sorry! please forgive me!:) and played that for basically all of legion, but now i want to return to my rogue once again. This guide REALLY helped with getting started!

[@ExiledPowerUS]

That's awesome. Really glad I could help. Good luck with your rogue! - Marty

[@yannicholz7556]

Thats the first Rogue Guide that rly helped me lol

[@Crazigloo]

Small change I would add to future videos concerning openers; highlight your CP generators, spenders, and cooldowns in different colours. Helps the brain "chunk" the info. I found myself practicing your 21-step opener in seperate segments - all of which ended in Eviscerates/Night Blades.

[@kellytheos9858]

Excellent guide. Thank you so very much!!!

[@markkronner6113]

Great Vid man! I just came back to playing during 7.2.5 and trying to make the move to sub this video made things simple =D

[@themindaheshan1116]

Bro thank u ,i was doing terrible dps now i burst 2.5M + and 1M cont for sure . Ur guide id ez af to understand . Thanx again love u 😘😘😘😘

[@noone370]

Great guide! Thanks! :)

[@dazzamuffin1]

hi Marty great video , i was looking at setting up a rouge yesterday but after watching 10 or so vids on sub rouge it put me off as it was to hard lol. your guide is clears and precise so im going to give sub a go now thank you

[@ExiledPowerUS]

I appreciate that. Good luck! You'll get it with some practice. - Marty

[@deathscar9910]

Exactly what i was looking for, great video

[@juanrondon4366]

Great video, was hoping to get a link to the tmw or WA you use for all your cds in the middle of the screen. Thanks.

[@ughitstravis9243]

It's a fairly complex spec then! But you make it simple to understand thank you.

[@niickerstar]

@16 minutes for example when you see all your major cooldowns on your screen is that an add-on? would come in handy for me if it is.

[@CelticCrow]

great guide :-) just one question, what about tier sets? I reactivated my Rogue, he had 4 set from nighthold, and now I changed to 4 set ToS. And I realized how comfortable the 2 set from nighthold was. without the longer nightblade duration I often see the situation that Nightblade run out too fast and I have to delay my burst window because of that. Do you think double 2set is better to play than 4set t20? I "only" have the Shoulder legendary and the Satyr Boots, so unequipping shoulder for a tset shoulder is not an option right now, to get 4 set t20 AND 2set t19 :-/

[@ExiledPowerUS]

T20 with Lego shoulders is better than 2p 4p even though it's less comfortable. Some people try that build but it's not simming as the top build and to pull it off you need high Ilvl nighthold tier (915+). I agree having nighthold 2p feels better, but you have to be in a very particular situation to try it. - Marty

[@kit3505]

Hey! Awesome guide. I have one small question. How do you have both shadowstrike and nightblade on the same button? Tried making a macro but it I can't get it to change picture and tooltip when shadowstrike is available.

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Not sure what you mean, I don't have those abilities on the same button. - Marty

[@tassiopbc]

Great video, would it be possible to share the weakaureas?

[@HTOlsen]

Fantastic guide, man. Detailed and well explained. Where would you put the Specter-trinket in the opener?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Somewhere around the first SD. - Marty

[@XibalbaFilms]

that is a beautiful opener. nice video I learned a lot. thank you

[@blakehager4627]

What WeakAura do you use to track all of that? Could a link be possible?

[@MrKylesgj]

Great video! Any chance you could link your elv ui strings please

[@beorngare]

Hi, your WA seems pretty nice. Is it possible to find it somewhere?

[@BlackChucks]

Any plans to post up the TMW profile? 😁

[@adamn2993]

So following your build, what rotation do you recommend using in the hit crit shoulder window with a vanish that is not used in your opener?

[@siferuk]

Just what i was looking for, thanks a lot, great video!

[@godsfighter1367]

What addon do you use to get that health bar and track your cds next to it?

[@Hateplow]

Hey i was wondering are you using weakauras or tell me when for you trackers ?

[@Myscune]

One question I have is why not take Marked for Death? You said the 50% stronger eviscerate was why DfA was better but wouldn’t being able to cast 2 eviscerates one after another essentially be a 100% stronger one? Is it just cause the cd is longer?

[@akpunisher15]

Hey @ExiledPower, I'd love to know what addons you are using to track your cooldowns next to your health plate? DfA, SD, GB, Vanish and SofD

[@Leeterthanthou]

whats your weakaura?

[@leon930]

best video on the subject.

[@elzaanvandermerwe1642]

Hi, where can i find the weakauras that you are using?

[@crimsoninterceptor]

would like to know that as well :)

[@Machiavelli_0000]

Concise guide. Thanks.

[@1992Macic]

where did you find that weakauras? please need it now!

[@Andersson-wh7tv]

What for relic do you recomend? increase critical strike on evisc for 30% or increase shadowstrike by 20%

[@albonkergoon692]

Great Guide!

[@TheKebobman]

Is there a posibillity to lay my hands on your UI and WA ?

[@koblyha]

Hello I am new in subtlety spec after really long period like an Assa and have a problem :) in Shadowdance burst window I can use only two Shadow strikes and one Eviscerate not SS,SS,EVis,SS like you.. dont know what i am doing wrong ... my stats: crit 32, haste 10, mastery 86, versa 8 .. ilvl 892 .. no legies

[@T675Sparky]

Great guide! Just a quick question: how do I 'target' specific legendaries such as the mantle? Aren't legendary drops completely RNG luck based? Also, yesterday when doing Nighthold I managed to hit a whopping 19.3M Eviscerate (911.3 ilvl, 99% Mastery)! I have a screenshot from it, I was blown away. Hit a 17M one in the fight before too.

[@ExiledPowerUS]

The only way to target is with the relinquished vendor on the broken shore. Those can proc Lego in the slot they are purchased. But the chance is awful and isn't efficient. Nice Evis. What did you do to get a phat one like that? Was it on one of the buff bosses like tich or Eli or Gul? - Marty

[@T675Sparky]

No, it was on Skorpyron heroic. Got the 50% from shurikens, SoD, SD, NB and concordance proc all at the same time.

[@meatmanfantastico8]

I know everyone is saying rogues are legendary dependant but nobody seems to be throwing numbers out there. I don't have the 2 best leggos and am wondering how much of an increase I will see if I ever do get them, currently I only have KJ's burning wish and soul of the shadowblade, with the crafted boots. please any info would be wonderful

[@ryanevezard9824]

Hey man awesome video!! Would you be able to link what addons you are using for your UI and the settings (specifically the ones showing major cooldowns and debuf timers)? :)

[@legatox8]

With lego shoulders, wouldn't it be better to switch 11,12,13 in your opener rotation to Shadowstrike, Vanish, Shadowstrike->DFA->Dance rotation? Currently it would be banking on shadow techniques for the 6th combo point for the dfa instead of guaranteeing 6 from the two Shadowstrikes.

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Yes that is a common way to do it. I go back and forth on this. The ST essentially always procs there and so it's not s real problem. I do it for energy reasons. Without lust it can be hard to get it all in. After I land and do the two SS sometimes I short on energy to hit the evis your way. But in short, yes that is a popular way to open and viable. - Marty

[@legatox8]

After testing it over and over again on training dummy, I wasn't seeing any issue with hitting the 6 before dfa with the st proc, so more than likely it's overcapping combo points doing it with the SS->vanish->SS->DFA. They were roughly the same damage as well. I didn't see any energy issue though, actually came close to overcapping at points. Outside of opener on single target, do you prefer vanish->SS->DFA or just vanish-DFA?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

I prefer van dfa if you don't use the bug. But with the bug it's better to use SS first. - Marty

[@jprez1219]

is it possible to get a link to your weakauras?

[@Asturien1337]

Such a great Video. I am currently debating on maining rouge, they fit all my criteria on what I look for a in a raid toon. However one thing I have never played melee and would honestly way I don't feel like I have ever played such a complicated class. Do you think that someone who strives to consistently get cutting edge would be able to pick up a rouge and be mythic ready in between a single raid tier?

[@ForceFieldFTW96]

good guide! one question, why do you use your first shadow dance for an eviscerate instead of a dfa combo?

[@Jdockery007]

anyway you c an list the addons your using? the rogue combo bar, the energy bar title frame and also the combat font addon?

[@ZaxMan3D]

Got a vid on addons you use to trach stuff?

[@StablestKnightGaming]

Do you have your weak auras posted? I have a bad weak auras set up and would like to see yours

[@TheRonTait]

Marty, Would it be posible to get the Weak Auras output for your layout?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Unfortunately I don't have those in WA, they are TMW's. So I cannot output them. There are some good rouge options over on wago. - Marty

[@robotk2rd123]

awesome guide man just subscribed . just got back to sub after i played it casual in 7.2, is there any way i get a hand on ur UI, more importantly ur WA's for SoD, nightblade etc.?

[@michellecoronel4166]

Do I only want to use DFA during burst or can I use it whenever it's up?

[@CT-si7bw]

great video! do you have a profile for your Tell me When trackers?

[@Soybomb94]

what addon u using to see nightblade DOT time?

[@porter73]

Great video man thanks. How come tier 20 has so much haste on it?

[@jonathanbernal7134]

First off GREAT guide!! Thanks for the hard work! Had a question though. There are times when i have my SoD coming off CD. But my nightblade is about to run out. Should i build back up to 5-6 CP and nightblade or should i go straight into the DfA combo without a nightblade buff on target?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

You should never run into this. To avoid it, you should refresh your NB in the CP cycle before that one. If you are going to run into that, just refresh NB instead of that last Evis you used. Its better to replace like an 8 sec NB than run into that. - Marty

[@stefanromanski8597]

nice guide, keep up the good work. can i download your WeakAura anywhere? and did 7.3 affect the build?

[@talldarkandhandsomeproduct1532]

Thank you for the video!

[@ntrz-]

I'm having a lot of trouble maintaining nightblade when DfA and SoD are coming off cd. Most of the time nightblade expires right as DfA and SoD are coming off cd (I'm assuming this is because I'm not using 2pc from NH any longer). Should I just not sweat the Nightblade and just use SoD and DfA?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

You have to be proactive. Look at your night made timer and think about it's duration. Getting to max cp with no SB can take up to 6-7 seconds. If your NB has 8 seconds left on it but you have to time to use and evis, get up to cap, NB, get up to cap and window, then use the NB early. You aren't planning your timers far enough in advance. You have to look at that timer with your next two cycles in mind and make decisions from there. - Marty

[@ntrz-]

so refreshing NB at 4s or less is optimal, but if your window isn't going to line up just go ahead and refresh NB so you can have it up for your window essentially yes?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Yeah that's the idea. Do that as little as possible, but over capping the pandemic by a few seconds is better than losing the 15 percent on the burst. - Marty

[@alaindaher1611]

Thanks for the guide, I was wondering what to do after the opener when everything is on cd but you have dances every few finishers. Do you save a shadow dance + symbols for every time dfa is coming off cooldown or just use what you have on cd? Thanks again for the guide it helped a lot

[@bmbrock88]

Great video! I'm new to rogue and this helped... Any chance we can get your weakauras?

[@jirizalubil7848]

Hello do you have some sims comparison? Im away from home so I cant test it myself...

[@waterface111]

Hello Exiled. great guide ! I have a question tho. Do you try to use DFA with as many combo points stacked as possible? or you just use it as soon as everything lines up with maybe 1-2 combo points ? i mean,should I aim for that or just use on CD as soon as everything comes off cooldown? thank you!

[@jacobwoodhouse1909]

Hey how do you get it so you have the action bar where you have shadow dance, symbols ect?

[@wowantonlavey]

The two builds for sub rogue are DFA and MFD. DFA uses master of sub, and MFD uses weaponmaster. The only reason DFA doesnt use weaponmaster is its bugged, so if WM procs from DFA both the WM proc and the buffed evis finisher from DFA never land.

[@Slipknoth1260]

Wouldnt it make sense to SoD & Shadow Dance at the same time (macro’d) while midflight DFA?

[@imtek5202]

Love the guide man, thanks. What's the addon you have that has your cooldowns displayed in the middle of your screen?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

I did that using Tell Me When. - Marty

[@delltronzero]

Great video. Your recommendation of Old War as opener pot flies in the face of all other guides I've seen and the prevailing opinion on Discord. Can you confirm? Edit: I see your addendum at the end of the video explaining more. Thanks.

[@punch4freedom]

wasnt it always crit>vers>mastery or am i just plain out wrong?

[@hoschiyoshi]

Hi, really a great guide! Thanks for that:) Would you mind to put your weakauras in the description? They could really help me managing all the cooldowns :)

[@MrSmenarelu]

is there any link for weakauras ?

[@erioltv]

hi marty do u happen to have any usefull macros to make rotation easier maybe a symbols DFA one or soemthink like that ty!!

[@ExiledPowerUS]

When I first tried sub I tried to make a few macros like that. The problem was they wouldn't all go off together (it was infrequent) and I would have to hit the macro multiple times. Rogue discord macros have similar issues. So I decided to leave them out. Also I sometimes on AOE like to use those things separately. So I would suggest trying to learn it without them personally. - Marty

[@kellytheos9858]

I made a macro using Shadow Symbols and NightBlade seeing that they both have a CD of 30 secs.... Makes sense, right? it didn't go well... lol. After practicing a bit more I feel that sub rogue is unforgiving for macros. :D

[@raulfernandezperez73]

ohh dude i finally got the rotation for this, i was playing outlaw in 7.1.5 and now its even worst in this patch i struggle to maintain 700k ST and i have both BIS legendaries and im 913 ilv, once i get the bracers in subt it will be really fun

[@ryangorgoni7602]

hey great guide! about to start leveling my rogue and def gonna go sub! random question- what font are you using? thats exactly what im looking for.

[@lacrosseguy108]

i noticed a bug if im in stealth and by chance use shuriken storm it doesnt bring up my usual out of stealth action bar it brings up a similar one but with a few less of my abilities on it, do you know why this happens?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

There is a bug with breaking stealth on certain abilities. You can learn more about it and how to abuse it in the rogue discord. - Marty

[@lacrosseguy108]

ok thanks alot much appreciated :D

[@IMdeadstone]

Heya dude, was wondering if there's any chance you share your WeakAuras :) they're big enough to notic everything :) Great video, great work. thank you !

[@claguez6340]

Awsome vid, been waiting for a good guide until i tried sub, your weak aura's would also help out alot, do you have a string for them? Cheers man

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Unfortunately no they aren't WA so I cannot output them. - Marty

[@claguez6340]

Oh ok, what addon is it then?

[@ruleza3]

Is Ravenholdt ring better than legendary cape? Cape deals 1,5+ mil AoE crits from stealth. new to sub

[@ExiledPowerUS]

That ring would be better on single target, cloak for AOE. - Marty

[@justin8149]

I'm new to sub rogue and there's only one other rogue on our team, he does about 100-200k more per fight due to him having better legendaries(back and wrist), and convergence of fate, while I have the crafted boots and sephuz with no CoF. when I quick simmed both of us on raidbots he was only like 20k higher. is this a glitch and he is doing a lot more because of his better gear or am I just tucking up the rotation?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

I wouldn't call it a glitch. First make sure your sim craft is up to date. I would expect that legendary difference to be more than 20k, but certainly less than 100-200k. It's most likely a combination of both. I'm sure there are things you could tighten up. It's hard to give you exact numbers. You won't beat him (if he playing at like and orange parse level with those legos) but with practice you could seriously reduce that gap. - Marty

[@justin8149]

I was using raidbots which is an online simcraft, but very basic. This leads me to believe that the sim didnt include the Convergence of Fate trinket that the other rogue had, as when I talk to him he usually has atleast 2 more shadow blade casts per fight due to the trinket which I would imagine boosts dps a lot. I do agree though that a good chunk of the difference is due to me not properly executing the rotation.

[@blinzi69]

is it always SS>SS>EVISC>SS even when the first 2 SS only give me 4 CPs, or do i wanna SS>SS>SS instead? i feel like i dont have enough energy to fit evisc into ShD when i go 3xSS - also do i always build up to 6CP before i dfa or can i go at 5 ?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

Don't try to use 3 SS back to back, the energy doesn't work out for it. If you absolutely have to, evis at 4 cp. - Marty

[@TheCaptnChunk]

Is it ok to macro Symbols of Death with DTA or will that throw off the timing?

[@ExiledPowerUS]

You can. But I like to have them separate because there are times when I need to use them individually (such as in AOE.) - Marty

[@WesleyAhnold]

I'm not really understanding using shadow dance upon landing from DFA?

[@instantclassic92]

Wes Cummings it helps you with sustaining damage with shadowstrike and then getting off another eviscerate quickly to keep up the sustained damage

[@WesleyAhnold]

Ah, I see now. Thanks!

[@nikolanikolic615]

when should i pop kj trinket? at opener

[@flippmogaming1]

Does symbols become usable outside of stealth? Is this a trait? I'm currently only 105.

[@ExiledPowerUS]

They changed it so it doesn't' require stealth in in 7.2.5. - Marty

[@Agencetouristes]

that was actually a pretty good guide very celar i learned a lot thanks you :)