Subwoofer controls

[@smaarch1]

Been thru Leadville and all the surrounding towns back in the 1980's. I was heading across the country for what would become a 2 year journey. At that time Leadville was an old mining town....and the commodities market simply crashed. Leadville, Silverton...etc, they were ghost towns. The bikers took over the saloons....fun times

[@markanderson350]

I learned more from the picture story than the reader question. Thanks Paul!

[@Audiofreak71]

Beautiful Capture with your 4X5 Paul, Thanks for sharing that story.

[@PanAmStyle]

Reminds me of Adams’ Moonrise photo - climbed up on top of his IH, set up the 8x10 and made the exposure (without time to meter!) in less than 2 minutes! I’ve seen his original negative, and the prints he was able to make are just amazing - the negative was NOT perfect!

[@BobGeogeo]

Lovely photo. As nice as electronic sub controls are, where I live we have power interruptions that set some devices back to defaults. Knobs keep their settings.

[@PanAmStyle]

I still use a 4x5, specifically a Chamonix 45N-2. It only weighs 3.5 lbs and replaced my Toyo 45A which was twice as heavy. Combined with a carbon fibre tripod with levelling head, it’s a compact and lightweight kit that even a little guy like me can manage. My guess is that with one lens and a couple of holders, it’s not much heavier than a pro DSLR with long zoom lens.

[@hubpaq]

very beautiful photography

[@jtmcfarland3512]

I think the guy was asking about subsonic filters. He didn’t clarify in his question, but I think “starting point” meant start where it’s handed off from the woofer/midrange. If that’s the case, I think it’s generally a fixed value built into the amp. The whole point of a subwoofer is to play all the lowest audible frequencies. Beyond that you can only feel it and it stresses the amp and puts a massive demand on the speaker. If you’re having over-excursion problems, look for a “subsonic” filter in your signal chain.

[@dell177]

I have a WWII surplus speed graphic 4x5 I got from work when we shut down in 1994. We used it to document product assembles so we'd know how to do it next time. I have a couple of poloroid backs for it.

[@manojkonar3969]

Paul being paul in this video, love you grandpa!!!

[@soniclab-cnc]

Only ever saw twin lakes in the winter when going to Aspen to ski... Its a fair drive from here in BC Canada.

[@tiburd7]

Great work with the 4x5 view camera! What film were you using?

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Fuji film.

[@tiburd7]

@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Awesome...Velvia was my favorite slide film back in the day.

[@bluesky6361]

I spent several years doing black and white photography with a 4x5 wooden field camera and a huge wooden tripod. Had my own darkroom built at home. Usually used TMAX 100 and 400, also TRI X 100 and 400 depending on the lighting and feel I was looking for.

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Mine too! That's exactly what this was shot with. You can see my collection here: pixabay.com/users/psaudio-834929/@@tiburd7

[@adrianadrianp5305]

Subs with high pass controls are unusual as most that have challenges with hitting very low frequencies (like some ported) have these built in to the unit to avoid damage. If you need to blend multiple subs you will usually do that externally with a DSP unit and remove any filters in the subs them selves

[@elvispresley9442]

DSP is basically what Bose did in the 70s to make a poorly designed/matched speaker box and driver perform better than it could by using a graphic equaliser to boost and cut the audio frequencies delivered to the driver to bring the output to a flat response to make the user actually like what they hear from their poorly designed boxes that cost a fortune. Even the flat response of a new active speaker has DSP already fixing the sound. To prove or disprove this take a stand alone/component amplifier with a known crossover and connect the woofer and tweeter correctly and you can hear the true flat response from your amplifier that you have heard many times before sound terrible in this driver and box combo because the built in amp already DSP's the $#!t out of the signal to make it sound flat and then adds additional DSP for the preset mode of dance, monitor, and speaking settings are changing the DSP again. I challenge anyone here to tell me that this is NOT what DSP does in a digital format to EQ the signal to fix the sound that doesn't produce the flat response.

[@adrianadrianp5305]

@@elvispresley9442 Not sure I follow you, what's the challenge with DSP, it will degrade signal if you need to go A>D and D>A but, you will need to phase align multiple subs and usually EQ some of the room nodes (below the Schroeder frequency) and that is near impossible without DSP. I wont use DSP to alter any frequencies over 100Hz

[@elvispresley9442]

@@adrianadrianp5305 The intent of my reply was to agree with Paul's answer that he did answer the question and explained further regarding the purpose of high and low pass filters. The next part of my statement was about DSP and basically saying many modern active fullrange speaker Boxes and Drivers are not really designed for the fill audio spectrum and so DSP is already enabled on these speaker boxes in FLAT response setting on the DSP control. DSP is digital equalisation, just like the old analog Graphic Equalisers and the Bose controllers that were sold many decades ago to force a speaker box with incorrectly selected full range drivers to perform the bass mid and treble that a 2 or 3 way system could do at a flat response in a single or multiple driver cabinet. This is difficult for a full range driver to do 40hz to 20kHz which are not capable of the full audio spectrum and current active 2-3 way systems are not as well designed and require DSP for the flat response never mind the other modes they promote for Rock, Dance, floor monitors and public address. The last sentence was to challenge anyone to actually take a selection of Active speaker systems and run a response curve on the systems flat setting and then disconnect their built-in amps and then connect a pair of flat response amps that they know work on a passive box and run the same test on the system and they will see a non-linear /flat response for the Box and drivers without the Active amp as the active designed amp has DSP enabled to make customers hear what they consider to be a great sound when the design doesn't actually create the desired sound a d DSP (equalisation ) is already enabled to improve the design. The same goes with playing songs they know through the active amp with DSP and the difference when a flat response amp plays on the cabinet with speakers and there is a noticeable difference in linear response. This proves that cabinet and driver designs are poor and are not created in the correct volume of aur for the driver to work corrctly and they make the cabinets for smaller size or lower cost (yes, we all like a bargain) but i cannot see why everything now sells with DSP as a "feature" and spec of the equipment when usually these systems are ridiculously expensive and when you look inside they have the cheapest driver internally trying their best to create concert hall sound with DSP. An Example, open a sound bar, the trending system now for TV and music and you will see that the speakers in there cannot naturally create the full audio spectrum in the long plastic container that they are placed in to match your wife's asthetic look in the room but are not asthetically pleasing to the ear.

[@genchic1]

I would like to see more of your photos...

[@atzeotze2256]

2:45 Looks a little bit like a painting from Bob Ross.

[@awmjb]

Thank you for the explanation. But, you never once said the word 'crossover'. Is that the point where the low pass filter is set?

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

When you write "crossover' are you referring to the crossover in the main speaker the sub is matching with or the crossover inside the subwoofer? If I assume the latter, then I am not sure what you're asking. The purpose of the subwoofer controls is to extend the full range sound of the main speakers without drawing attention to itself. So, typically we would want the subwoofer not to go too high in frequency so the sub's low pass might be set at 30Hz or 40Hz to so there wasn't too much overlap.

[@davidfromamerica1871]

@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Depends on what you want. Not everyone wants their sub to disappear. Set up the sub for home theater movies for that low rumble effect. Or. Set up the sub for Rock and Heavy Metal without the Rumble. Set up this way the sub will “pound the bass notes only” with the correct type of amp with the power and headroom. Bolt your chair to the floor..😀 I recommend 3/4 inch bolts..😀 No nothing disappears. 😀😀😀😀😀👍😎🤗🙄

[@awmjb]

Thank you Paul. I think I am confused about filters. My subwoofer (a 15 year old Pinnacle CS66, 350 watt) doesn't have any filter switches. It has the phase switch (0 or 180), a volume dial (min-max), a crossover bypass switch, and a crossover dial (50hz-150hz). I am not sue what to do with the crossover bypass switch except to leave it on 'off'. @@Paulmcgowanpsaudio

[@Pete.across.the.street]

The crossover dial is the filter

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

The 50Hz to 150Hz dial is the low pass crossover I refer to. Use that to limit how high your sub plays to mate with your main speakers.@@awmjb

[@richardowen5589]

Paul never answered (or understood) the question. If the user wants to run multiple subs, he may want one sub to only play (for example) between 100 - 60 hz, and a second sub between 60-20 hz. I am almost sure that was the original intent of the question.

[@bristolwoodburners81]

I thought exactly what you have commented

[@elvispresley9442]

Paul did answer the original question, he explained what the controls did for hi-pass to only allow the lowest freq above the setting through so if you don't need any home resonance buzzing the room or you can raise the 10 hz of long wavelength whose power just heats up the voice coil without really having an audible effect on the music as humans can usually only hear above 20hz, so it protests the speaker from unnecessary burnout and also limits the amount of power the amplifier wastes where you can't hear the music but the amp warms the room to 80 degrees. The Low-pass control is adjustable to set the subwoofer highest frequency you want to hear, to match with the 3db roll off of the main speaker box bass driver so that there is a smooth continuation across the entire low range to ensure the fidelity of the system. Remember a sub us only there to add the missing low frequency from a music recording that the main speakers can't produce and so the sub takes that and should remain at the same level as the rest of the music and not cranked up to make it booming like a teenager with their expensive car system which only does one thing effectively, to make the occupants in the vehicle prematurely deaf.

[@bingdong8571]

Wow! Youre right. Thats definitely pauls influence. People are definitely defensive with rel based on your comments and my own other observations. Paul yields power! Rel owes him cash!

[@sudd3660]

a powered subwoofer with high pass on the outputs can be useful. i have passive subwoofers, no controls on that at all. i think that is the best solution, bit it is not plug and play like powered subwoofers.

[@williamweiss6128]

Remember when there were no subwoofers. Even in pa systems. You just had smooth balanced sound.

[@Hammerhansfo]

You can get smooth balanced sound with a subwoofer, in fact I will argue that you can get music a lot smoother with the sub than without!

[@williamweiss6128]

@Hammerhansfo heard a lot of overbearing setups, too. I have a couple and it is impressive.

[@marcbegine]

Hasselblad?😎

[@LS-ti6jo]

REL subs have a really weird / user unfriendly control quirk, in that they refuse to put numbers on their dials. I've asked and was told that REL expects its customers to figure out what the dials are set at by counting the number of clicks from zero. When I make a comment about that on Rel's KZbin channel, it always gets a reply from some old timer defending this nutty system asking me why I want to use those newfangled dials with numbers, and I'll respond asking him to imagine what it would be like if Rel also designed watches ("What time is it Bob? Let me count the clicks Caleb. 13 licks - I recon its one o'clock"). Just Nutty

[@jkunz27]

I'm sure it's because they want you to set it with your ears, and not your eyes.

[@MegaM563]

Their crossover indicators are with numbers

[@mpi5850]

I have a REL sub and it has numbers for the crossover. You are ill-informed.

[@mufcusa]

You are correct. What’s worse is that I can’t even feel the clicks so for me there’s nothing to count and I’ve no idea what the crossover point is set at. To make things even more ridiculous, I’ve a pair of stereo subs that are 15’ apart in the room, so I have to try and eyeball one’s setting then guess on the second sub where it should be!! And these are the Carbon Specials, hardly an entry level subwoofer 😢

[@mjot2360]

They do this because numbers are meaningless. You should always adjust by ear.

[@johndaddabbo9383]

Sorry however 1. You didn't answer his question and 2. He would be correct and having a Highpass filter on a subwoofer is extremely helpful. Mind you some manufacturers implement an 'appropriate' Highpass filter on their subs (Goldenear), however most not so much as they are wanting/trying to have their subs play as low as possible, which back to the QUESTION at hand, is NOT good for acheiveing the BEST sound quality possible. In some Preamp processors / AVRs this is sometimes called a Subsonic filter or Infrasonic filter, and sometimes but less often simply a Sub Highpass filter 😊.

[@elvispresley9442]

Paul did answer the original question, he explained what the controls did for hi-pass to only allow the lowest freq above the setting through so if you don't need any home resonance buzzing the room or you can raise the 10 hz of long wavelength whose power just heats up the voice coil without really having an audible effect on the music as humans can usually only hear above 20hz, so it protests the speaker from unnecessary burnout and also limits the amount of power the amplifier wastes where you can't hear the music but the amp warms the room to 80 degrees. The Low-pass control is adjustable to set the subwoofer highest frequency you want to hear, to match with the 3db roll off of the main speaker box bass driver so that there is a smooth continuation across the entire low range to ensure the fidelity of the system. Remember a sub us only there to add the missing low frequency from a music recording that the main speakers can't produce and so the sub takes that and should remain at the same level as the rest of the music and not cranked up to make it booming like a teenager with their expensive car system which only does one thing effectively, to make the occupants in the vehicle prematurely deaf.

[@craigellsworth3952]

High Pass filter, y'all say? Bunk. Using a high pass filter adds yet another potentially sonic degrading circuit in the path to your mains. Run your mains until they run out. Splice the sub(s) to that point.

[@ivansbacon]

Lidsville ;)

[@bf0189]

I still confuse high pass and low pass filter to this day even after two decades of knowing what they are

[@Pete.across.the.street]

It's right in the name, shouldn't be too hard

[@dangerzone007]

I don't see the point of putting a high-pass filter on a sub. It just adds more cost with no benefit.

[@grumpy9478]

a benefit is to address site-specific room modes.

[@dangerzone007]

@@grumpy9478 it's much better to use EQ.

[@grumpy9478]

@@dangerzone007 "much better"? you're the one who brought up "...adds more cost...".

[@NoEgg4u]

@@dangerzone007 "it's much better to use EQ." Almost without exception, EQ is always bad. EQ is active processing. Active processing is to be avoided, whenever possible. It is why nearly no high-end pre-amps have tone controls. High pass and low pass filters are passive (not active). They do far less harm to the signal.

[@dangerzone007]

@@NoEgg4u wrong. EQ is always good. It always improves the sound.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

I have a 10" playing 35-50 and a 15" playing 12-35

[@kurtbrisch5776]

Some sub's, such as Rel, prefer you to use your main speakers full range and then bring in their sub's to fill in the low end. They fell you get a better blend with you main's that way.

[@chuckmaddison2924]

Agree , that's what I do. Also, by doing it this way with some movies I don't turn it on .