Adding a subwoofer

[@BestRipOriginal]

I have had a subwoofer for a long time to complement a pair of ribbon speakers that don't have a deep bass. Having listened to Paul about subs recommending to use 2 I bought one more.. and that was a great improvement! Thank you Paul for so much great advice!

[@googoo-gjoob]

the only thing that beats a great subwoofer...... is *two*

[@howardskeivys4184]

I have a pair of Kef R11 floor standers. They are undoubtedly full range speakers, with a typical in room response down to 26hz. Paul’s advice, is, as per the norm, absolutely spot on. The thing to keep in mind is that every time the frequency is halved, or you drop an octave, you have to double your amplifier power to maintain the same SPL and amplifiers struggle to do this in a linear graph across the frequency range. So, although the mighty R11 speakers can achieve room shaking lows, but this would be seriously augmented by a pair of active subs. I have a pair of Rel T9X. The less expensive T7X or T5X would equally suffice dependant on room size. If you only have the budget for 1 it will substantially enhance your low frequency response, you can always add a 2nd at a later stage to achieve better bass distribution. If there are any of the end of line Rel T5-7-9I still available in your locality, they’re probably substantially discounted and are still excellent musical subs. There are other more competitors on the market if your pockets aren’t that deep. Trust me, once you’ve experienced a system with well dialled in subs, there’s no going back! Enjoy the music.

[@danielkarrary2419]

Your solution for locating a subwoofer is excellent and easy. Thank you for the tutorial.

[@DJJ212]

Paul, I've just added a small REL sub, wired by high level connection. Following your guidance and instructions, I am AMAZED at the difference it makes to everything. Why didn't I do this sooner?!

[@ceylonmooney]

man that was THE best instruction on subwoofer placement i ever heard...never thought of that before. thank you!

[@ceylonmooney]

those FR 20s are stunnnig, just stunning.

[@Beefcake20]

I agree with Paul on this one. I bought a sub and I think I fiddled with the gain and other adjustments for weeks until I finally have the bass sounding like it's coming solely from the speakers.

[@Mr._Mints]

I did the same when I got a new set of speakers with matching subwoofer. First time using a dedicated sub. But when I finally found that sweet spot, man was it cool!

[@Terry12345]

Those speakers are gorgeous!

[@davidm7824]

I have always used 1 sub and my system sounded great. Then I heard that 2 subs are even better. So, I ordered another sub, same model. Wow the second sub really woke my system up. I will never go back to only 1 sub again!!! All those people that say 2 subs are even better, were right!!!

[@Kyle900t]

For example, if the base is best with the sub(s) elsewhere and not where the speakers are, like Paul says wouldn't we want to low-pass the speakers then. Removing the source of the base where it's not ideal (spraker location) and letting the subs do the work in the more ideal spot?

[@doublet147]

That is the long running discussion/argument. Which sounds better? Low passed speakers with strategically placed subs, or full range speakers integrated with strategically placed subs at the lowest frequencies.

[@TheMatsushitaMan]

@@doublet147 You mean High-passed speakers.. only the mid and high get through, the bass is rolled off an that's where the sub takes over

[@doublet147]

@@TheMatsushitaMan correct.

[@n.lyndley.9889]

Bass

[@NoEgg4u]

There are two other benefits for adding sub-woofers: 1) You can bi-amp your stereo via a high-pass filter. That will relieve your main amps from having to deal with the full demand for bass (and bass puts the greatest demand on amps). That will allow your main amps to dedicate their contribution to the mids and highs. All will be cleaner and more natural sounding, because your amps are not being stressed. 2) By minimizing the bass being sent to your main speakers, you also minimize how much your main speakers vibrate. You do not want your mid-range and tweeter drivers to vibrate from the shaking of the woofers. Like having a TV vibrate. Your screen will not be as focused. With audio, when your mid-range and tweeters are not shaking from the bass, they will throw a more focused image.

[@ity1311]

Usually the sub is self-powered (activ). So your amp doesn't waste eny power on it... Even if he's connected directly to your speakers terminals.

[@Tsxtasy1]

I always feel a Mr. Roger’s vide watching you talk. Amazing!

[@onkargurav6003]

I would like to know which manufactures and model of these speaker. They look beautiful but really interested in performing.

[@JohnTwo1]

For a stereo system you need a proper subwoofer with a DSP crossover that can apply a cutoff slope, not just a plain Hz crossover. This will make the bass transition seemless between the speakers bass response and the subwoofers.

[@asilva781]

Thanks Paul.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Paul argues why not to buy too big stereo speakers and rather use smaller speakers with subs and I agree on that…but only if you use active cross-over so your stereo speakers aren’t getting the sub bass power messing up the cleaner sub bass from the sub woofer with compressed distorted bass, when playing loud. Of course those FRS30 deserve the full bass and I personally would rather go great lengths to optimize my room and perhaps add some slight EQ compensation…if I had those really nice speakers.

[@hansiangng2808]

You mean something like minidsp to set high pass filter?

[@joshhescock4202]

Every audiophile I have talked to seem's to have different ideas on speaker placement and if you really need to add extra woofers to your system. I like hearing everyone's thoughts on this. I love my Polk speakers but to much bass to me can kill sound.

[@pedrocols]

There are a lot of speaker manufacturers that like to exaggerate the bass region giving the illusion the speaker sounds bigger than what really is. Unless you are watching a movie for music you don't really need that much bass.

[@scottyo64]

@@pedrocols my RF7 IIs come to mind

[@doublet147]

You should add subs to your system. Adding subs doesn't mean you will have too much bass. However, it does mean you can control & fine tune the sub levels better. Jmo

[@101stTank]

Btw is there any reason why prefer Rel subs? I think that compaany lost its power when it was sold to Usa. Best woofers are now made by Genelec imo.

[@MrDoneboy]

I have a pair of Klipsch R-620F speakers in a small space, and even at a bass setting of six, I have plenty of bass thru my Cambridge Audio AXR 85 receiver!

[@halukokur2520]

AFAIK those FR30's are two-piece speakers, consisting of a separate mid/tweeter box and a bass unit. How about NOT to stack them and place separately, thus using the lower parts as subwoofers? Just a thought...

[@Stan_the_Belgian]

The crossover point is above 80hz I guess, but good question!

[@truman4956]

Love the speakers in black

[@MrBbront]

Brilliant -Thank You !

[@fctryoffetsh39]

Beautiful system 😁😁

[@joshuaschneck]

Two questions Paul: (1) given that most subs are self powered, in the case where you're using a low powered SET amp to power you main speakers, would the onboard (and likely much more powerful) sub be able to add some more punch to the low end? (2) If I have main speakers with larger active driver (12" Klipsch Forte) than my sub (10" REL s510), is that a problem in terms of a mismatch?

[@popculture70]

I'm putting together a system with 2 subs... I'm not sure what I should set the frequency cutoff to be. It can be between 40 and 120Hz. Should I just set them to reproduce the lowest frequencies only or have them play some of the frequencies already covered by my floor-standing speakers?

[@davidm7824]

experiment, most people say and use 80Hz. That is where mine are set, but each person and room is different. There are are no set rules. You want the subs to overlap with the floor-standing speakers. Everyone has their own opinion on what sounds best.

[@Mark-lq3sb]

Since we're on the subject of Bass... Host Tom Snyder of the Late, Late Show was introducing the band members of Kiss and said to Gene Simmons...You play the Bass. Tom pronounced it like the fish. Ace says I'm not the guitar player. I play the Trout, LOL!

[@Blowncaraudio]

so gorgeous paul!!! SO GORGEOUS!

[@RoderikvanReekum]

Forget Paul, You are FIRST congratulations on this amazing performance you get 🥇🏆🍾🥂👏🇺🇸 You were so fast to click!

[@techno_magnus]

@@RoderikvanReekum ...

[@Blowncaraudio]

@@RoderikvanReekum Thank you!!! Im not gonna lie... it feels great!!

[@normhiscock352]

@@Blowncaraudio Wtf is going on? 😆

[@Blowncaraudio]

I've never won anything before!!! There's so many people I want to thank but don't know where to begin!!!

[@AllboroLCD]

Can it also be a possible scenario where your FR towers are so properly powered & placed, the need for a sub is moot? I am talking about most common subs that is (subs that dont reach down much further than 30hz give or take) I feel like thats what I have going on, my towers are rated down to 28hz and when I toss the sub into the mix, the bass turns to literal MUSH! W/o the sub, my system sounds like there is one if that makes any sense. No, i dont have bass mgmt or DSP.

[@shaynakash4222]

if what you say is true paul how come i get amazing bass in my 12 by 9 feet room with my vintage valencia altec lansing 16 inch driver no matter where i place them in my room ?i do have an amazing power lines that goes individually to my source and my class d dac /amp wich cost about a 800 us dollars total,lines cables cost about the same , a friend of mine have a set up of 150000 us dollars and still does'nt get the impact and dynamics like mine , seems a bit odd to me ......

[@hilde45]

I suppose if you took a couple more minutes on this video you might also talk about how subwoofers can improve Soundstage And tonality for most speakers though perhaps not for your flagship speakers. Is that true?

[@niklaswaller1917]

And if I put the sub in the couch, what should I leave the crossover at?

[@PSA78]

There's no universal answer unfortunately. For one it depends on what order it is on the filter, to a point also how loud you're going to play. Somewhere in the say 150-200hz region is when we can localize the sound source easier, so it's to some extent what volume the subwoofer is going to play up there. Increase crossover frequency and volume (independently) until you hear the subwoofer, and turn it down slightly from there.

[@FunkyGene]

Hey Paul I'm in the east bay would love to talk about hifi

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

I don’t like too much bass really in music

[@curtispazarjr4985]

great review!!!!!

[@darumaprb8500]

hy I have a Subwoofer sw100 Kliptch 10” in the corner of the room the room is 15' x 11' x 9' in concrete walls. is that good or may I changed almost in the center of the front wall. My name is Pablo...

[@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285]

Hey Pablo. Thanks for reaching out. Corner placement is often a good way to go. The goal is to not hear the subwoofer, but to enjoy better bass as if it were coming from your main speakers.

[@RickMahoney2013]

Subwoofer, subwoofer, subwoofer that all I got to say.

[@imosolar]

Good school of audiophile

[@scottyo64]

One sub makes a BIG difference, 2 not as big but seems more full for lack of a better word

[@JC-lk3oy]

The real improvement multiple subs offer is the bass will be more even throughout the room. 1 sub can have major room mode issues depending on the room.

[@googoo-gjoob]

agreed. the 2nd one gives it that last/needed umph

[@Stan_the_Belgian]

Disagree, 2 or more subs make the response flatter in more locations in your room, oomph any good sub can give

[@JC-lk3oy]

@@Stan_the_Belgian exactly.

[@hifiman4562]

Add two subwoofers. Get yourself a minidsp and tune it.

[@bububarx4559]

For me the only question is 1 or 2 subwoofers. I have a pretty ideal place for 1 subwoofer, not that ideal place for the 2. Subwoofer

[@mykhailoskachkov5946]

Depends pretty much on your room size. If room is relatively small, you can have single sub smth like svs sb ultra 16 and just be happy

[@bububarx4559]

@@mykhailoskachkov5946 30sqm, rel s/812. The sub has no problems at all filling the room with bass, but i dont think that this the point of having 2 subs? I rly dont know

[@mykhailoskachkov5946]

@@bububarx4559 if sub fills the room with the bass and you don't see places where it is not enough, then don't worry about second sub. Second sub is needed to even bass response across the room. If you don't have problems with that you don't need second sub (especially with a lack of space)

[@bububarx4559]

@@mykhailoskachkov5946 ok thx!

[@CobraChamp]

"high velocity"? I think he meant "high excursion"...

[@davidlane1169]

ONE subwoofer? That's funny. For the life of me, I'll never understand why real truly accurate bass needs so much reinforcement. My surround system has four subs for six tweeters & two midranges. Just about perfectly even dynamics in this room. I would have never believed it if I hadn't experienced setting this up myself. Thanx.

[@thomasschafer7268]

haha. for 37.000€ i shouldn'd need a sub. what are you drinking? moonshine.

[@catherineescol7852]

This audio stuff is great for People with a great amount of Money and does not know how to spend their Money , I still Like CheapAudioMans Advice its Realistic and can be achieved with few thousands on hand.