Subwoofers: Can You Move Low End Nulls (Out Of the Sweet Spot)? - AcousticsInsider.com

[@roger5482]

thanks for this! as i understand, to deal with the problem of nulls - there are actually 2 things that really help: 1. choosing listing position 2. minimise the effect of standing waves by means of bass traps, which makes the nulls less obvious (but still audible) ..where as moving speakers (sub or mains) usually won't help with this particular problem

[@RossAllchurch]

Following your videos, along with my own research, I have finally finished fully treating my room and it sounds... incredible. I had hoped but could never have imagined just how much of an improvement the acoustic treatment would actually make. The level of clarity and detail in the full spectrum is mind blowing. 100% worth the year of on and off bass trap building! I'm lucky that the only real issue, is a huge dip at 96Hz. The room is too small to do much about the listening position (although I did follow your handy guides before I started any treatment) so I used 'Equaliser APO' to add a little boost back in at that frequency range and it seems to help a lot. Anyone with this issue, it might be worth trying this first before messing around with subs etc. Thanks for the informative videos Jesco, keep up the good work!

[@jmacgronau]

given the fact that you have boosted your target frequency at certain levels, do you then cut down that frequency in the same amount later on in your mixes?

[@alaafahmyofficial]

i have same problem, im read in sonarworks blog that dsp cant fix phase cancelation, becuase room will make dip again, acoustic treatment best soulation

[@fescolfaro]

Lots of good videos on this channel, this isn't one of them. Though the room modes won't change, the simple fact that the sub is produced omni directional waves and can be placed at any heights already makes it much more flexible than a speaker. If your speakers are exciting a node closer to half height of the room (which they probably are), removing that frequency from them might make their height irrelevant to the node and therefore a sub will improve nulls that aren't SBIR or a floor reflection as well. The node will still be there, but the amplitude will be much smaller and any subsequent linearization or amplitude correction can potentially be a very big improvement.

[@simpsonbergman2185]

To the extent this is the case, for nulls between 100 hz and 300 hz, which are also common, I guess subs won't help since they are not for those frequencies?

[@AshSavageTube]

Flipping the phase of my sub fixed nulls for me and helped flatten the curve, I had a serious null at 86hz which. Totally fixed by adding a sub and flipping the phase 180⁰

[@danbriggs3106]

Jesco ...you saved me from alot of money spent on bass traps to fix this exact null you explained in this video perfectly. First i tried more than a hundred different sweet spots to fix the null over span of year or two. tons of stress and anger from family members believing im going crazy after telling them i swear this is it after each new spot!...even a trip to doctors office due to stress didnt stop me from experimenting...i tried the bass hunter test and many other methods but it wasnt till i saw this video that really hammered into me to keep faith in your bass hunter test...then the next moment a crazy light bulb went off in my head and surge of excitment ....the one thing i didnt try...do the bass hunter spot with the sine wave frequency dip playing while you move around the room. soon after doing it i felt like crying a bit because i finally hear to 25 to 20 db null balance itself alot. this bass hunter test is so powerful that you can abandon 90 percent of rules of studio setup like speakers against front wall for bass or symmetry rules. Jesco i cant even explain how helpful you are to saving us thousands of dollars and extreme stress..all i can do is pry that whatever is sparking your soul to reach out to us keeps going ...thank you soo much !

[@nikolaudio]

man reading this gives me faith. I always have a problem where i hear more bass standing up, but not sitting down. So i just havent found that spot where vertical and horizontal nodes balance.

[@simpsonbergman2185]

I know how you feel. Obsession with bass problems..

[@simonlacelle1902]

Moving the sub can have a dramatic effect on nulls. My listening position had a complete cancelation at around 70 hz and that was totally fixed by moving the sub behind the desk instead of under it.

[@jeremymacachor6862]

thanks for answering this question!

[@maxmus9854]

Thank you for all information you share with us!

[@Av-gurusBlogspot]

On that amroc page (in the Room 3D window) we see red/blue fields. Do they indicate peeks only or for example red are peeks and blue are deeps (null) ? Tnx

[@ראםרביבו]

Thanks for the great video. Sonarworks or any eq boost can solve the null problem in low end?

[@donaldspak960]

Talk about the Geddes multi subwoofer thing. Apparently 3 or more subs and a little dsp will even out low end in even poorly treated or untreated rooms. Have you tried this in treated rooms, what were your findings? Is this more of a home theatre thing or is it worth exploring for home mixer / recordists?

[@droidzhunterz6861]

Not needed if you have one listening position. Multisubs are for a wide area and more seats to seat consistency as in home theater

[@NakeanWickliff]

@@droidzhunterz6861 it’s not an either or. It can help with even response through e room as you say but it can definitely help with a single listening position.

[@frederf69]

Thank you, very informative 👍👍

[@joost3783]

I just love this channel so much. Thank you - a lot.

[@GMG0479]

What about placing the subwoofer in a near field position? Wouldn’t that eliminate most of the room effect since the listening position will experience direct sound, before it is affected by the room?

[@Dwarrelpoot]

This made my dips even worse. I have giant dips on 30 and 40hz, right smack bang on the couch. I’m not allowed to move the couch, so had to figure something out with the sub. Got to an amazing spot by doing sub crawl, but that made the couch a great listening spot, and as soon as you got up and moved anywhere around the couch, your head would vibrate because the 30-40hz would increase by 10db. Infixed this by lowering the peaks, but that sadly got rid of the tactile feedback on the couch (so I often sit in a chair right in front of it, where it’s still great)

[@cruscifer]

I turned my sub around to face the front wall and it 'got rid' of a huge 110hz null that was right in my listening position. Flipping the subs phase did not work. Having the sub in the same position facing into the room did not work nor did moving the sub. My sub crossover is at 80hz. I was playing the 111hz room mode tone from amroc so I thought this was a room mode, which it probably is, but as this video says the change I affected was not a change to the room mode. I suspected SBIR before all of this but was unable hear a change by adjusting speaker distance from wall. Of course this 'sub directly into wall' trick only works in my listening position but my room is untreated. However, I can move my head very far front and back at the same height on this front to back axis with no change in 110 to 120 hz amplitude to my ears and now in my listening position the kick drums do not completely disappear. This was a huge initial victory for me (and free) but it make me realize I need to measure and treat my room (not free)💲🔇

[@RadekPilich]

not sure if I am blind or your are doing something wrong - this is second video in a row, that didn't appear in my subscriptions feed initially and only appeared after a day or so

[@frederf69]

Same here & my notifications were switched off by youtube

[@AND22]

Interestingly enough I just checked my notifications feed and this never showed up, I knew the video was up because of the newsletter

[@seanb3303]

The subwoofer really looked like it helped flatten out the response in the measurements and then he kind of disregarded it…which i thought was a bit surprising.

[@MailletJonny]

I have an odd situation (maybe quite common) where I previously had a room with some bass traps and my computer on a music stand with the speakers stacked on top of some storage bins. The room acoustics translating to my listening position were almost perfect and not to my ears but after measuring the room with software. I finally got my dangerfox 16u split bay built and set up to the same listing position and my Speakers are missing almost everything under 100hz. It’s GONE. Can the desk really alter my room that much? I thought desk reflections and issues usually amplify the low end and create hire frequencies, not remove it. Please help!

[@umusachi]

Are you sure something isn't out of phase? I wouldn't think adding a desk would change much below 100Hz, but I'm no expert.

[@alaafahmyofficial]

yes it can make this because of phase cancelation Resulting from direct sound, reflected sound overlap

[@imdrecordings]

Genelec Ones 8331a paired with the 7350a and the GLM software do this quite well and almost automatically. However, I think my dip is from a speaker boundary effect that it can handle and not necessarily room modes.

[@TheSzyko]

I want to get 8331a + 7360a for my bigger studio. Are you satisfied with the 8331a? They’re just smaller and have worse LF response compared to 8341/8351 right?

[@imdrecordings]

@@TheSzyko if I did it again, I'd go the next size up from the 8331s or get the largest pair without the sub

[@imdrecordings]

@@TheSzyko however the other thing with the sub is it can really help fill in gaps caused by speaker boundary interference when used with the GLM software, by setting the crossover between them right where she drops. pretty cool

[@TheSzyko]

@@imdrecordings I think I will check all three (8331,8341,8351), but probably go for 8331/7360. I need a flat FR until 20Hz to mix and master, so a sub is needed regardless. Even the biggest of The Ones would not be enough, so why not going with the smallest and save some money, but get the same FR.

[@m.j.s.3838]

Thanks, really good info. Also, I suggest you check the pronunciation of ‘caveat’.

[@seanb3303]

Pronunciation varies by country. He made it sound a bit French. In my country pronunciation varies by state.

[@bubblehead5394]

How about multiple small subwoofers?

[@hemantsharma47]

Sub seems to have less bass extension than speakers

[@Haroldus0]

goodness you're patient-! it's a pity you have to repeat the same wisdom so often! I feel we need a course in how to listen to good advice. I find myself repeating so often.

[@robanatta]

No offense, but manipulation of speaker placement determines how good/bad they sound. If you toe in a subwoofer and angle front up by 1-2 inches will change sound stage and increase your low end. No need for numbers and algorithms...

[@bachelorgamer8001]

Your video content always seems to focus on what doesn't work and downloading something. Are you ever going to post a video that's actually helpful? Intro: "I'm here to help you." Mid: "That approach won't work End: download from website FYI I've downloaded from your website before absolute waste of time, i just get a tun of ai emails

[@IrenESorius]

"Use your ears, if you know what your looking for,," Jesco Lohan - 2022-09-14. In that case I use my eyes. 🤣 Cheers Jesco,, 🍻😎🤟‍