Summary High End Munich 2024 - Day 1

We had a great first day at the High End Munich 2024. We talked to a lot of interesting people. But we see something dangerous as well: more and more unobtainable High End Halo products... That in itself is not dangerous, but the fact that entry level gear is disappearing is... We talk about it... and give a solution!

[@jeanpaulceulemans9973]

so true what you say about recording quality. I have the complete discography of Chuck Loeb. The recordings from the early 90s which were by DMP were exceptionally good but after that it went steadily downhill

[@gerihifi]

Best conclusion from ANY YTer out there overhyping those HiFi shows. Thanks for your time & sharing experience!! COMPLETELY AGREE!! Source/live recording Newsletter tons of experience and not just an Mac and some fany mixing-studio App.

[@yunglie1445]

thanks! We really hear that mastering engineers have a lot of work nowadays, fixing the DAW/plugin redundancy.

[@michaelgebauer5235]

The idea of using excellent headphones is a good one. Excellent headphones with a good headphone amplifier and network streamer will beat most combinations.

[@user-GrahamT]

What the manufacturer tells you about the number of product his company has sold, and how many have actually been sold are 2 completely different things...

[@Philear4124]

As many brands exist in high-end, there are so many in start-up hi-fi. I will mention just a few, Audiolab, Atoll, Scansonic, Denon, Rega, Arcam, Cambridge Audio etc. ....... After all, you also tested amplifiers and speakers under 1000 euros. Grtz Phil

[@yunglie1445]

Yes we did test in this category and we love doing so; at this High End, we see many brands discontinuing their entry level product lines and that is a pity.

[@ktakeshi17]

Not sure complaining about High End getting more expensive make sense at a High End show. We need high end market to thrive, so that we can have trickle down technology. Only by the pursuit of trying to reach the end, can we further the journey together.

[@HiFi.DIVINE]

Maybe I've said it before, I really like your approach to this hobby!! Congrats!! 😊 My respect! 🙏

[@ruudstet3186]

Gentlemen, nailed it. On day one. Headfi is top for quality for the price and studio equipment gives studio sound. Which IS the reference. All else is flavor, design, lifestyle, (ego)tripping. And indeed : temporary. You'll want a new christmas tree after a while. Personal view 1) when my first affordable speakers are from the same brand as trptk use as monitors, than that halo product (blade)works and I feel fine buying their ls50's. This applies to many brands. Personal 2: don't you just love christmas? It's fun, careless enjoyment. So have fun, guys enjoy christmas . And for the rest of the year: the two of you gave a clear mission statement of whar you stand for. Keep up the good work.

[@yunglie1445]

Couldn't agree more!

[@MartinBischof]

enjoy your time....and thanks for your work onsite :)

[@dexterts1]

Exactly what you say! I recently purchased Kali Audio lp-unf monitors for 300€ and they are by far the best money I’ve spent in hi-fi,and in some instances I enjoy them more than my ~6k main system

[@LovecableEu]

I went back to basics like 18 years ago… while I had pretty fancy systems and sold even more fancy systems… but when I heard the Lipinski Sound gear I switched and never looked back… they originate in recording and started optimizing and finally building better gear for their recording and mastering and are tas far as I know the only company that make full class A Active loudspeakers.

[@JoseFerreira-zb7wh]

If the industry is going into expensive land why not feature some of the examples that counter that? The new 3000c series from q acoustics, the new debut series from Elac and new products from Wiim seem like good examples at Munich. Were you at their booths? Any feedback from them?

[@medonk12rs]

The show is called "High End", not "Entry Level" for a reason. ;-) Nevertheless, I think there are plenty of affordable three-digit price-tagged components available for starters. And these don't sound bad at all, but probably much better nowadays compared to the 80ties.

[@soulfunkjazz]

I see a market for a 2nd Show. A Show for Hifi-Systems up to 10k.

[@jeromelester8]

The engineer from Klangschloss Switzerland called Ralph Zünd (2inch-records).

[@benfromhaarlem6617]

Mooie, neutrale en unieke aanvulling op andere bekende YT'bers die hier verslag van gedaan hebben. Volgens mij zijn jullie geen verlengstuk van 'Big High End'.....Bedankt!

[@TheAlphaAudio]

Thanks

[@Tom-z9y2e]

Very entry level systems are too flawed to provide enough technical performance and pleasure. But your great sound demos of multiple amplifiers and speakers of a few hundreds or thousands euros show that a good, complete and almost neutral sound is quite affordable these days but very very similar from one product to another, with the differences coming a bit from the tweeter material and a bit from the house sound of the amplifier. But I think complete personal engagement with sound cost a few thousand more and depends much more on the design choice of the brand making the amplifier than anything else. The super high cost stuff seem to provide more scale, more holographic performance I guess and spectacular designs sometimes but one has to be already engaged with the sound of the brands before getting their ultimate gears in the hope to get more pleasure or pleasure at all. I guess 500 euros - 3K is the sweet spot for good sound. 4K-15k with careful choices for organic engagement. Under 500 euros, better use 300 euros headphones.

[@Mr_J_J]

Klipsch RP-500m II, Schiit amp, Wiim or BlueSound source isn’t too expensive but the hifi market has always been been an entrepreneurial graveyard. What happened when you have engineer led pet project companies.

[@jmtennapel]

The problem with Klipsch, WiiM or BlueSound is that is all sounding like manufactured sound. Put it next to a Dynaudio or Genelec active studio monitor and you will hear what I mean. There is so much lost in terms of musical connection that most people are not even aware of.

[@Mr_J_J]

Denefrips Ares would be a nice affordable DAC.

[@AL-ye2fo]

Reccomend visit ESD Accoustic booth at A4.2, their system cost 811,111 EUR. Never saw such price tag before...

[@yunglie1445]

We actually did visit ESD; very impressive setup and amazing lineup from record players to headphones and DAC's from one Chinese brand that caters for people with deep pockets and, compared to EU/USA brands in this league, reasonably priced. In the automotive realm, similar developments are visible. At the car fairs in China, there were extremely luxurious cars in the Rolls Royce category.

[@D1N02]

Eau contraire. Entry level is better than ever.

[@reneherrmann2697]

in-akustik is always showing their cables together with primare and audiovector at a reasonable price. These components a a good synergy.

[@reneherrmann2697]

It is part the "sounds clever" initiative of the german high end society - so audio-systems for under € 5000,-

[@SpaceEncounter]

Guys, good quality HiFi was never cheaper than today. Just look at all these new brands such as Wiim, SMSL, Fosi, Topping, Hifiman, Eversolo,… However, the HiFi dinosaurs believe only expensive gear is good 😂

[@jmtennapel]

Not all of the brands you mention actually sound good. Yes, it is cheaper than ever. But not better. Just dig up some 90s cd players and compare and you will hear the difference.

[@SpaceEncounter]

@@jmtennapel That‘s why I‘ve got a CD transport and a separate DAC, which sounds better than an old CD player 🤩

[@r.weerts7733]

De niche in de markt sinds Kempinski Frankfurt geswitched is naar het MOC is veranderd naar Absolut High End in terms van de techniek en mogelijkheden. Groot groter en........the sky is the limit.

[@jantheuer8717]

I saw something that no mere mortal had ever seen.😄😄

[@donaloneill5363]

looking forward to rest of your coverage of HEM

[@remiwjuniski1808]

For me Rega is one of the company who still try to make the best product for a good realistic given price. Example: amplifier io,brio,elex / turntable p1/p3/p6 😇

[@kadajawi2]

Are you sure the entry level is disappearing? I don't think so. When you begin, you could get a Wiim Amp as source and amp, some entry level Elac or Nubert which have been getting better and better and be happy with it. Or if you want to go a little higher end, use a Wiim mini as source and perhaps an Audiolab 7000A and an entry level Focal or something. Yeah, at Munich HIGH END this stuff hardly gets shown, but it exists and it is getting quite decent. Munich High End is for a different audience I suppose.

[@yunglie1445]

Entry level audio certainly benefits from digital sound processing (DSP). Streaming (portable) speakers from the likes of Sonos and JBL sound decent because of DSP. The WiiM streamer is a good example.

[@jrgenthomsen8692]

Excaktley right……. That is why I bought an "RME Fireface UFX III" for the same reason, …. to get Highend Stuff to a price That I can afford…. To make my X- Over stuff for a set of DIY speakers…. ;-) and I just LOVE it ;-)…… If it can record and produce music….. Then it must be able to play the music back…. Right ? ;-) The next step will be to get “Stuff” to Produce…. and Play back Dolby Atmos 9.1.6 …… That just works….. Like Oria from Ventura…… Exiting times ;-) Thanks Y2 …. Best from Denmark DK

[@Taikostuff]

They will have to pry my active Questeds from my cold dead hands...

[@yunglie1445]

hear hear! (also a happy Quested monitors owner)

[@Taikostuff]

@@yunglie1445 Goed bezig!, did you have a chance to check out their new domestic range? Too bad it’s passive and quite a bit more expensive than the studio version’s they are based on.

[@centurio7019]

The bottom end will disappear, because the slogan is 'you will own nothing and be happy'. This means that only the rich oligarchs will be able to buy stuff and they want stuff much more expensive. Also all the small, medium and single owner businesses will disappear like yours probably.

[@theflyingdutchman7127]

Bedankt weer heren. Het gaat echt nergens meer over, zo idioot hoog als die prijzen zijn. Als de hifi /high-End ten onder gaat is het door decadentie. Niet door de muziek liefhebbers . Ik waardeer jullie bijdragen en statement heel erg.

[@Krell666]

What happens to hi-end audio when all the old rich people die off?

[@ptg01]

Sadly, the resale value of 99% of these equipment is abysmal. Best to wait for them to come into the resale market and save 40% or more..

[@Wuppie62]

You don't think there'll be Nouveau Riche (Niveau Louche) people in the near future, who 'll like to 'Hi-Res to impress'? :)

[@nirodha35]

@@Wuppie62 no, I don’t. It doesn’t happen now, so why should it happen in the future?

[@Wuppie62]

@@nirodha35 I asked the OP. :)

[@revan.3994]

"What happens to hi-end audio when all the old rich people die off?" >> The Chinese audio manufacturers will have a monopoly, and I mean a real monopoly. Why? Becaues already now they are dominating the entry level hi-end market by 80+ %... imagine 10 years from now. Sad but easily predictable future.

[@vmpty]

Is entry level really disappearing, or is it being dominated by Chinese brands? I think it's the former. And they do not suck. I have an Audio GD DAC that cost $4K USD, I know it is not entry level, but it holds its ground against DACs that cost 8X more. Perhaps you are not looking in the right direction.

[@gogo-fk1lu]

Mid is slowly disappearing in all areas, not just in hi fi.

[@fb30xhk]

For me, this was one of the more disappointing High End Munich shows when I compare to the other years I’ve visited. Overall, a lot of the top brands did not sound great, in many rooms the sound was too bright and many speakers came across as boxy. I will also question whether this is really worthy of being called a high end show anymore, with a lot of brands and components really belonging to the low to mid-end category. No doubt, this is more relevant to the majority of visitors and potential buyers, but still. It was also disappointing that many brands did not show off their top toys, eg VAC, Rockport and Wadax. Personally, I’d much prefer a smaller but more focused and real high end show

[@raphaelmeillat8527]

Such a weird take on today's marketplace... I guess you've been brainwashed by what you saw in Munich... But there's never been a better time to enter the hi-fi space! Between new brands like Buchardt entering the direct sales market and offering great products at affordable price, to brands like Denafrips or Eversolo bringing great dacs starting at less than 1K, or brands like Focal or KEF covering both ends of the spectrum, etc. Even products like Magnepan"s LRS speakers is a hell of a deal for 1K! You also have retailers like Audiophonics (based in France) building their own class-D Purifi amps for 1K or so. Some KZbin influences like Thomas stereo launching great yet affordable products! As for headphones, you can now get great iem's and headphones starting at 50 or 100 dollars! Even great portable (USB) Dac's from 50 to 200 delivering amazing resolution and finesse. There's NEVER been a better time to get into this hobby and I've been following this space for the past 40 years... Anyway, really curious to know where your fear of "no entry products" comes from! What's sure is that most audio shows will scare the hell out of young consumers (not their price range, not their music, and not their crowds!)

[@oliivioljy9700]

Only and only high tech. That's it. G E N E L E C The only option for home use in the living room.

[@MaxPower-zp7wy]

No. ATC Actives. The best bar none. I don't care what the price.

[@oliivioljy9700]

@@MaxPower-zp7wy Atc is a good standard speaker of course (but completely overpriced!). But the sound pressure in terms of performance and high sound quality is far from Genelec's dsp speakers. Even when completely digital, Genelec is able to bring the sound structures/tones to a particularly natural high level. For example, connect them to your blue ray player digitally (coax/aes/ebu) and really understand the quality of adult resolution. Atc is very far from that realism.

[@oliivioljy9700]

Atc is a good standard speaker of course (but completely overpriced!). But the sound pressure in terms of performance and high sound quality is far from Genelec's dsp speakers. Even when completely digital, Genelec is able to bring the sound structures/tones to a particularly natural high level. For example, connect them to your blue ray player digitally (coax/aes/ebu) and really understand the quality of adult resolution. Atc is very far from that realism.

[@MaxPower-zp7wy]

@@oliivioljy9700 Good standard speaker ? ATC are world class in recording studios. ATC make everything themselves over here in the UK. No outsourcing. From design, to research and development, to build. ATC provide the quality of sound you don't get on speakers a lot more expensive. I've heard people at the Munich show praise ATC sound over speakers 10X or more the cost. They really are that good. Since the midrange is where most of the music happens. The best most expensive ATC go low aswell. Super accurate, neutral to the source, you only hear what the record ing gives you, doesn't give or take away anything extra. Tight, punchy knock your socks off level, heavy weight, articulate, precision, but not bright. The ATC actives are incredible for the price.

[@Jortio]

I hate copycats, period. But with the current hifi inflation (mostly tailoring to the Millionaires and Billionaires), chifi is getting more and more interesting. You can buy straight copies of high end branded amps that will cost you 5k to 50k, for 1/5th to 1/20th of the price. Yes, there are minor differences, but often the components that count are of the same or similar quality. I've heard 2 of those versus their original designs and they sounded equally good. Is it original..no. Is it moral..no. Do you get real warranty...often not. Is it my only option to ever own a sought-after top/ high end amp design... possibly. I went the Eigentakt (VTV) + Philharmonic BMR Towers route. Not cheap by any means, but rather neutral (no salt+pepper) designs from small "no-frills" manufacturers. It's tough for these manufacturers to survive, but they still offer bang for the buck. A dying breed in the West.

[@pjmt29]

I'm into IEMs & got into Chi Fi around 6 years ago & to say it's come on leaps & bounds is a understatement. The quality & sound keeps improving year on year with unbelievable value for money.

[@bikemike1118]

Studio gear is actually NOT made for quality listening ! It’s just for working … there is NO ambition to sound realistic or good. This advice to buy studio gear is crap, sorry!

[@jmtennapel]

Have you listened and compared?

[@bikemike1118]

@@jmtennapel I know it first hand from an audio engineer… but if you don’t believe me: no problem … believe your own ears. Listen and you’ll see. Better buy used than crappy, plastic, active monitors … waste of money if you’re not someone working in a studio.

[@jmtennapel]

@@bikemike1118 I have compared, a lot, using my own ears.

[@bikemike1118]

Well, I don’t know your ears and in which class of gear you compared. If you like studio gear… what can I say? … „enjoy“

[@yunglie1445]

@@bikemike1118 not all studio monitors are crappy and plastic. I am using Quested 3110 active monitors, meant for midfield listening. At a weight of 40 kg a piece, these speakers sound impressive. Every visitor in the studio can testify for this. If you are using near field monitors in your living room, this will not work. I am curious to what studio gear you are referring to that underscores your judgement.

[@Gem-Ex]

The bottom end is definitely not disappearing. Personally I am boycotting RME & similar brands that don't care about their customers.