Super Complex Stair Build: Open-riser Winders made with templates

[@Selkian]

Awesome work and great to see a professional in action. I am an amateur woodworker in the UK building my own open staircase with 100 mm white oak treads on a wood central mono stringer. 2 winders and kite tread. The most challenging project I have ever done.

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Wow that is come kind of staircase you're building. The 100mm treads must be quite the investment! The mono stringer is a great idea if you have the head room. Did you consider getting a steel stringer fabricated? Thank you so much for encouraging comments. God bless, Scott

[@Selkian]

@@scottearlsmithFTC The pandemic caused materials to double here in the UK and have stayed high. It caught me out building our house. I originally designed the stairs with a steel stringer, but costs are sky-high. I looked at glulam beams but decided to build the stringer out of laminated ply at a fraction of the cost. It was always going to be painted white regardless. At 300mm wide is is chunkier than the steel option but has come out well allowing for the investment in the oak treads and glass balustrade. I have tried to learn as much as possible by watching videos like yours. Investing in tools like the Domino at track saw has really helped. I am enjoying the challenge, but occasionally I seem to develop Tourettes😆

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

@@Selkian yes developing tourettes is an occupational hazard when building complicated stairs. Hahaha. Domino and track saw are two of my best purchases. I like your decision of going with the plywood as a cost saving measure. If you can't do something yourself then it chews up your budget. Would love to see the pictures. You can email me through my website scottearlsmith.com Best wishes, Scott

[@daveblakney9674]

Nice work, it looks beautiful, something you should really be proud of.

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Thank you Dave. I really appreciate the encouraging comment. Scott

[@zanesmithwoodworking165]

Great video of old-school talent. I've been there many times. Much easier to draw in CADD then having a print shop make paper templates. Next level is having a CNC cut out and mortise for you. All three options work.

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Thank you Zane! Old school it is. Drawings in CADD, printed templates and CNC mortises sound really good to me. Would have saved me a lot of head-scratching. Thank you for the endorsement on talent. That means a lot from a pro like you. Cheers,Scott

[@zanesmithwoodworking165]

@@scottearlsmithFTC I really enjoy your videos on stairs Makes us all better carpenters.

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

@@zanesmithwoodworking165 Thank you Zane. I really appreciate that comment. Scott

[@Hog-g2z]

Good morning 🌅, interesting way that staircases are made over in your neck of the woods, I am from the UK , though I am now I’m retired living in France, I made quite a few staircases, many years ago I built a my very large workbench, 3-5 Mt X 1-5 Mts , I would use 1/4 MDF pinned to the top, then draw out the stairs, all of the treads are housed in to strings, using a very large dovetail cutter , then long wedges driven in under each tread and riser , looking it all together, + glue, I have even made 3 1/2 flights that sat on top of each other, very big problem, the architect didn’t allow any room in the stair well, to start the initial stairs in the basement, as it needed to be assembled in the basement, obviously first and then building up, The problem was you needed to be under the stairs to assemble the staircase, but you were trapped inside, 😂, it cost them a lot of money as they had to get a structural engineer to give them authority to cut hole in the wall to bed crawl through into the stairwell and obviously to get out when the stairs start to get up to the next landing, I refuse to do the job to install, as I can see a problem arising and told him that they had a problem and they didn’t take any notice, plus they weren’t very good pays either, Retired in my 70s , living in a Moulin/Mill in France, just removed a staircase that went from my lounge up to the attic, when I converted it to live in I put the bedroom down stairs, so my living room and kitchen/dinner room are upstairs, so I could see across the forest and mountains/Hills, I had to make up a frame above the stairs to put a electric winch on it, it is made of 3” Oak, I have now rotated it, 2/3 fixed in place, got to acquire or make up a large newel post, then I can make my three winders, and then put the last bit of straight stairs in, It is surprising how much more room it has given me in my lounge, my lounge is big anyway, but by rotating the stairs, it’s giving me a lot more room, Hope you find this interesting or amusing , old dude living by himself nothing more to do, Keep up the great work stay safe,

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Thank you for taking the time to write such an interesting comment mate! I'm of British ancestry on my Dad's side. In fact my uncle (Dad's brother) moved to the UK after WW2. He and dad were born in Saskatchewan but my uncle joined the Canadian army and was a military police officer in England during the war. Met the love of his life there and end of story. He passed away a few years ago at 94. I've always loved stair builds. Started when I was 19 using repetitive cuts with a skill saw to plow out the stringers (with a chisel). This particular staircase in the video was a huge learning curve for me. If I was to do it again I'd of made single or double stringers and then fastened the treads on angle iron with slotted holes to allow for movement. Hard to explain but the winder supports ended up being a nightmare as the customer wanted the saw-tooth stringer on the winders as well. That creates some issues with angles on the stringer cuts. I chuckled when I read about the architect drawing something up and not thinking about how the poor carpenter would actually build the stairs. Doesn't surprise me. I've done some jobs that an architect dreamed up and it was nearly impossible to pull off. Funny thing is he made as much money as I did in a half day of drawing than I made in a week of blood. sweat and tears. Also interesting is that there's a British carpenter named Carl Rogers who lives in France and has a great video on a stair build he did on this old farm house in France. I enjoyed hearing about your story about winching the stair case. Old men get smarter not stronger. Love the sound of that big work bench you have too! God bless you my friend, Scott

[@Hog-g2z]

@@scottearlsmithFTC Good morning Scott , I will be in touch tomorrow, I have a appointment at hospital today just a check up, Have a great day, Phil, from France.

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

@@Hog-g2z Hope it all goes well. Look out for those French nurses!

[@Hog-g2z]

@@scottearlsmithFTC Good Day, Scott , I hope you had a great day, I was wired for sound, sonar how deep can they go, for 24 Hours, back in 2022, I had a heart attack, I had been suffering from stress, from my ex for about 15 years, in 2019 , she was accusing me of being mentally ill, even got some of my relations and friends involved, if you understand what they were trying to do, luckily I managed to get out, and I came across the France, Now legally allowed to stay , though I do have some problems with some locals, , to read and write properly I could write a horror story, Strange how families can change and even move to the other side of the world , my eldest sister who is no longer with us, she married a American servicemen just after the Second World War, And lived in Chicago, the next jump I have one son, I am the only one and a family of three boys that has had a son, he now lives in Quincy, Illinois, and works For electronics firm, Back in the late 70s early 80s , I was helping a contract firm in Cambridge that was making staircases, I was making treads and components for them, Didn’t have very much in the way of machinery, then mainly a lot of handwork, I’ve been involved in making formers for precast concrete staircases, I had to go to site in Dartford just on the outside of London, I had 14 to make 14 factories, the first four, I went to site. I saw the foreman and architect., they gave me details and told me where my staircase I got a start and I’ve got to finish, I took a load of measurements, took my drawings and everything back home for the weekend, went back on the Monday at 5:30 in the morning to traffic, Started lying out first part of the stairs and my measurements that I got and what was on the drawings were completely different, I have to wait until the foreman come in at 8 o’clock, I told him that there’s a problem with the drawings that they have been set out wrong , this didn’t go down very well, the guy responded saying you obviously do not know what you’re doing, are you quite sure you’re capable of doing this job?, I won’t work on money I would’ve told him to stick it, I said, are you sure you want me to go to these measurements and he said yes? , So over the course of the next week I’ve built four precast concrete forms., Had them inspected they were happy, I got paid. They told me they’ll call me in about 10 days when they’re ready for the next set to be done., Three days later, I had a message. I was told that I needed to go to site. There is a serious problem. , ha ha, Supposed to be a minimum of 60 mil of concrete screed over these forms, I’ve made them to specific specifications, I went to site with a colleague who got me the job and we met the architect there, before the foreman came in, I said to the architect and the person who got me the job, Before I started, I’d already said there was something wrong with the drawings something wrong with the measurements, I was told that I didn’t want to do the job and capable of doing it to leave, so obviously I carried on and made the former, after a big discussion the colleague of mine that got me the job we were told to go and have breakfast somewhere and come back later, we went back around about 1130, to meet the site foreman, the architect, and I presume in the main building tractor, in the heated argument, the foreman was instructed to apologise to me, and he was promptly removed from site, such a great feeling, On another occasion in a very high end apartment in Cambridge, I believe at the time it was the first one that had broken the million pound bracket, a beautiful wrought iron and ash staircase spiral, Somebody I tried fitting the 4 inch diameter handrail to the metal work, not quite sure what happened, but I was asked if I was interested in doing the job, so I said yes I was given a huge stack of approximately 4 foot long curved section handrails round, I started work trying to fit the first section to the metal work, it didn’t seem to want to line up, so I thought I would cut the handrail in half a 2 foot length and see whether I could join it and get it to fit, it still didn’t work, the company that are supplied all of the treads which all in as, had made the handrail in a 4 inch round section. It has been machined just in one plane., it was supposed to be done in a helix, so as you dropped the handrail down the coverture of the rail would fit onto the metal strap or the metal work of the staircase to say it was out of line was understatement,, again I called site foreman architect everybody to site, again I was accused of not knowing what I was doing, this time I was prepared, I’ve already drawn out a piece of one part of the Handrail and I actually made up a segment 4 foot in length, very time concerning. I covered the piece of metal work in tape and then stuck thick cardboard onto it marking it top of handrail , and Drew around the side of the metal work, then I put the cardboard pattern to the side of the metal strap, and then I drew around the top of it, which then obviously gave me the two planes to create the helix, Not sure whether back in the 80s there were CNC machines about that could do this, again I was told they thought I was wrong so I produced my pattern and placed it onto the handrail, they then agreed that I was correct, they asked me how much it was going to cost on top of what I had already done. I just picked a figure out of the 3 1/2 thousand pound , they turned round and looked at me, they ended up saying obviously yes how soon can you start?, My reply was how soon can you give me a deposit?, There was no way that I was going to go out and purchase a load of cash to make this staircase handrail, so in about two days I’ve got half a deposit, and the rest is history, it took me about five weeks, How about two or three months later the architect that was involved in this luxury apartments, approached me and asked me if I was interested in doing handrail and edging for a precast concrete staircase in a property that was 200 yards down the road, of course I said yes, 3 1/2 flights, This cost us over £6000, a lot of hard work, especially when it came to sanding, and I was involved in a property construction down in London to do with the church and royalty, all in Brazilian mahogany, I was making monkey tails, goose necks, swan necks, you name it this is what was going up the stairs 2 1/2 flights landings et cetera, All the radiuses I had to literally cut by hand roughed it out on a bandsaw then hand carved it on site, As he was then Prince Charles even passed comment , on how much hard work it was to make and produce this part, Later in the year, I made a very large power of doors going into part of the church, I’ve got pictures of him and the architects Simpsons of London standing looking at my doors, I was doing subcontract work at the time for organ building company they we were involved in doing the making and installing a new organ into this church , 2003 when I met my ex partner we purchased an old Forge in the UK, which I was manipulated into restoring it, which was fine, and when we used to go on holidays, we used to go across to Europe, and then our goal was to purchase something later, when her father passed away, I restored his property up in Grimsby, and then we came across to France in 2012 and purchased a price over here on old Mill, it is huge, this is where I live. In the separation of us, I obviously got half share of the property in the UK, lost a lot of money in this process, and then I had to buy her half share of the property in France, as I put a lot of time and effort into it, I didn’t want to lose it, though I think I’ll probably be better off with the money, but I have lost all the time and effort that I put into it, so I ended up in the property in France, and moving over a completely, Sorry about ramping On so much , but when you are by yourself , I don’t talk to anyone, as I can’t speak French,

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

@@Hog-g2z Hey Phil. What a story. I'm impressed that you had the fortitude to stick with your convictions on doing things the right way. The foreman got what he deserved. I've run into customers who are demanding and seem to think they know everything. When I sense this attitude, I walk away. Quite the wealth of experience you have. Interesting that Charlie had a look too. And I'm glad you were able to get the place in France as you had your heart set on that. Life is quite the journey. Again, God bless you and enjoy that newel post build. Cheers, Scott

[@zephyr1408]

Great work Scott I hv been watching but I am buried in cabinets! Un like you to even take on a part time helper I hv to carry work comp insurance which cost me thousands of dollars! So I still fly solo and work Sat to keep somewhat up on a time line! But I hv been buried in cabinets !! Which is great , love to work! This and your last video “More than a carpenter “ are very inspiring! Brother if I don’t see you here ; I will see you there! You know in that millennial kingdom someone has to build ? So we def have a future of work! One way or another I will learn stairs!

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Great that you're busy Jim. Thanks for checking in. Enjoy hearing the updates. Cheers Scott

[@zephyr1408]

@@scottearlsmithFTC thanks Scott really appreciate you! I hope the family is doing good!

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

@@zephyr1408 We are all doing well. Thank you.

[@timothysmith3348]

You milled your own lumber and everything! That’s about as custom as you could get. Lucky customer!! Can’t imagine how much the labor Alone was on that job. Incredible work. Lee then coming.

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Thank you Timothy. I plan on pumping out as many videos as possible this year. Yes it was a tremendous amount of work. No doubt the most difficult carpentry job I've had thus far. Glad you enjoyed!

[@CanadianHardwoodPro]

Hope you're keeping warm in the T.Bay.

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Thx Alex, We've had the fireplace going steady last couple days. -31 with the windchill yesterday. But we've had a very mild winter overall. Cheers, Scott

[@superandy89]

How did you attach winder each tread to the center support beam? Screws?

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

Yes. Four-inch HD screws. I only show the dry-fit in the video. Further structural support would be provided when the post was cladded with birch after I finished the rough-in. Thx Scott

[@SalmonAlaskaGirl]

@@scottearlsmithFTC Do you have a finished image? Would love to see the final product!

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

@@SalmonAlaskaGirl Unfortunately no. The customer finished off the project. Thx Scott

[@JeffreyAWhittaker]

Very Nice work and education, what did you use to support each tread on the upper treads that were not sitting on the stringers?

[@scottearlsmithFTC]

My job was the rough-in. The homeowner was going to install birch hardwood cladding on the post to provide structural support for that end of the stair treads on the post. On the large side he was going to add a secondary stringer to pick up that load. Thank you for the compliment. Cheers, Scott