Super Mario RPG: Battle Mechanics - A Longform Analysis

[@zelda12346]

Nah, it's just up to you. The shell game has an expected value of 0 (if you consider 'paying' 100% of your exp as part of the game), so whatever benefit or detriment is up to whether you like or hate to gamble. This is of course assuming the shells are all equally likely. Biasing it against the player seems too counterproductive since gambling is supposed to be fun, but biasing in the player's favor might lead to some skewed progression balance. As a side note, the first Final Fantasy random encounter formula might look impressive, but it's simply something like Beta(2,5) [

[@GameSoup]

You are correct, we screwed up here. It would be a lot of work to change the actual video and re-up it, so I am pinning this comment to highlight our misinformation here. Thanks! -Joe

[@fireflocs]

Here's the trick with using Mallow. No basic attacks. Ever. Instead, use Thunderbolt. Pretend it was his basic attack. It's 2FP, hits everyone and does much more damage than you'd think, even at the very end of the game. You ESPECIALLY want to do that in the first Croco battle - it's literally the most damaging option you have. For 2FP.

[@dmas7749]

Uhh he can do some pretty okay damage with weapon upgrades. Though I generally ditch him when I get Peach, because she's the damn best healer in a game.

[@fireflocs]

He never does more than Mario, Bowser, or Geno, and even Peach when she has her best weapon. Really, the best use for Mallow's weapons is selling them, since that basically turns the ones you find into free money. Mallow should be using spells, especially his all-spells, and Shocker, which is your most efficient boss killer, even doing as much damage as Geno Flash, but for much less FP.

[@dmas7749]

fireflocs I didn't say he did more damage. And while his spells do fair damage I much prefer Bowser and Peach over anyone else. But his Thunderstorm saved my ass against Croco and the first star boss, so I wouldn't call him a bad character. Just a subpar one.

[@fireflocs]

You're missing the point. The damage isn't solid if literally every other character outdoes him. And his spells really do completely stomp throughout the entire game. They tie everyone else's spell or better for less MP. It's impressive, really. It's just that restoring MP is very easy in this game, so saving it with really efficient spells doesn't mean all that much.

[@dmas7749]

fireflocs Fine I'll change it to "okay" damage. I wasn't missing the point, And my point was that he's not bad, just outdone by everyone. I know what I was talking about because I've played the damn game.

[@avitron142]

"Square Enix forces all staff to play Super Mario RPG in order to learn how to make good RPG's again"... Well, they could still certainly use a playthrough now. In fact, they could have used a playthrough every year in the last decade if the point was to teach them to make a good RPG.

[@GameSoup]

+avitron142 I sometimes wonder if a program like this would actually have some benefits to major developers...

[@xxProjectJxx]

Agreed, the battle system is solid. I also think it's important that the animations are quick and precise. You never feel like a random encounter is wasting any more of your time than it has to. I've long felt it was clear that this game was an RPG built primarily for non-RPG players. That's why there's so much beneficial randomness, why the levels also include things like platforming and minigames. It's also, I think, why the overworld is connected by nodes. It's extremely hard to get lost in an overworld like that.

[@hedgelad712]

*mushroom status effect peeking around the corner*

[@DarkDrai]

Wow, I did not know there was a 2x AND 1.5x multipliers for perfect and almost-perfect timing! My whole world is shattered! :o

[@-._____-]

Press A to win done right

[@TheShangryLlamas]

Thanks for all of your analysis videos Game Soup! I'm currently developing a video game with a team of a few people right now and these have been very beneficial to me, so thank you :)

[@GameSoup]

+TheShangryLlamas Great to hear that it's helping out. I hope that we have made your gamedev life a little bit easier. Thanks for writing!

[@ATCraiger]

Awesome video. I think you made some really good comments and analyzed the game well. I love Super Mario RPG, and I'm working on making an old school turn based combat system, but am striving for it to be fun and interactive. This definitely gave me some stuff to think about.

[@MarxForever]

Oh man, I had a rather terrible obsession with this game when I was a kid. But even all these years later, and all the masterpieces that have come out since it's release, it has still remained one of my favorite and most cherished games of all time. I just adore every bit it. The music, the aesthetics, the writing, and of course the gameplay. I just wanted to say fantastic video, I'm very much looking forward to the rest of the series. I wasn't subscribed to you prior, but I just happened to stumble upon this video, by chance and seeing this was an ongoing series I of coursed had to shoot you a sub right away. But now that I've been subscribed to you for a few weeks now, I gotta say I find myself liking most of your videos (I just got done watching you play an entire game of Stratego, lol). So keep up the good work. Later, man.

[@Jonathan83X]

Well said, man. You hit the nail on the head why this RPG is so much better compared to most. It focuses on player skill as a means to attack, defend and so on. So, like you said, it's not just a battle of numbers, but a player having to practice his timing to maximize his team's performance in battle. Seriously, more RPG's need to follow this because I'm so sick of RPG's playing like a game of D&D with a roll of the dice. You might as well play a game of D&D in that case because what's the difference?

[@coolboym99]

I completely agree on super mario RPG being my favorite rpg of all time. =p This is actually really informative and helpful as I'm debating making a game with a similar battle system. I'm looking forward to your further analyses as I'll be able to use it when trying to design my game. =)

[@GameSoup]

+coolboym99 Glad it was interesting to you! Good luck on the game - I would love to see another battle system as fun as this one.

[@elgatochurro]

many items and spells i just conduct figure out the timing for... i dont know if its right before the hit or heal is applied on animation or not.

[@Woots]

This game is one of my favorite of all time! Also, I thought the Yoshi mini game was really easy when I was younger... But anyway, great job analyzing!

[@antshield]

I just found your channel. I'm subbed. It's awesome!!

[@GameSoup]

thanks!

[@KiddsWithClass]

I'm surprised lost odyssey wasn't mentioned in the timed attack section, that game added to it by having modifiers attached to the ring equipment. it was great

[@WaseQazi]

This was so good. Looking forward to Part 2!

[@GameSoup]

+Wase Qaz Thanks! You won't have to wait long!

[@Zedprice]

Wait wait wait. I'm pretty sure "freebies" are also generated by a timed button press with item.

[@Mr.G_717]

Me too

[@guiabel7]

Favorite game ever... I will make a game like this someday... My own spiritual successor

[@GameSoup]

gui abel and the seven stars! -joe

[@guiabel7]

Yeah... Something like that... xD Will give you a copy ;P

[@jakequaza3567]

I never really got the timed hits thing, there is no way to know when to press the button appart from on the basic mario punch animation or the gunba attack animation from the tutorial, how were we supposed to find out when to time hits?

[@MarcelxDD]

should Nintendo keep the combat system untouched for the upcoming remake? 🤔

[@FSSZilla]

I feel like it should be noted that Freebies can be timed. With the right press of the button, every item use can be a freebie.

[@anncarmelilovendino6559]

In timed hits the earlier you time the more damage you get! I found this the third i played the game.

[@BowserGlazer]

Well you're probably really happy that a remake is being made

[@rendumguy7596]

6:51 So... Like the Super Block from TTYD?

[@fat_sonic]

What is the block button again?

[@skeith804]

I believe when you look at Geno's specials in the menu, it indicates that you'll be able to time Geno Whirl for a lot of damage in its description.

[@GeoffreyToday]

I just started playing Mario RPG for the first time today. I have no idea if I'm successfully performing timed blocks or not. I was hoping this video was going to explain in more detail the mechanics of the block. Specifically, how to perform it, and how to know you've succeeded. Is there an audio cue that signals a successful block?

[@beamingdevice7627]

so is there a video breaking down timing even further into when to press button?

[@steveluvscows2490]

Funny enough, Exor's pommel is the only boss enemy that isn't immune to Geno Whirl.

[@legendaryszoke]

What is the ff game at 58 seconds?

[@levprotter1231]

do this for chrono trigger!

[@MatthewHolevinski]

Mmmmmmm, Shining Force II, my absolute favorite game of all time. I'm not saying it was the best or better than most even, but for me singularly it was and always has been an absolute masterpiece. Whatever the game devs were trying to convey in that game, it came through loud and clear with me.

[@riceadvicewithvahnmanx66]

Great video! Very in-depth and well thought out Game Soup! How do you see the timing mechanics have changed with the Paper Mario series and the Mario & Luigi series over time? Are there additional innovations that have been made which have been successful?

[@Moowe291]

Mallow just isn't pulling his weight around here.

[@JamishS]

Enjoyed the vid, look forward to watching more. I feel like the video needs some music from the game in the background, though! Also, at 3:55, the audio sounds like you recorded it with two different mics and the L/R channels sound off. Other than that, content was great.

[@GameSoup]

+Jamish That audio glitch at 3:55 is actually a last minute re-recording, which is pretty uncommon. We'll take a look at the L/R channels too. Thanks for the feedback!

[@DubiousGamingOnline]

Cool series

[@tullyparker]

You know what game also had a really cool spin on the traditional RPG combat system? "Legends of Dragoon"

[@sputnik_79]

Thanks! I didn't remember that SM RPG was so well designed... But hey, this is Nintendo... Might play it again soon!

[@GameSoup]

+Dominique Morin I really think Square came through here with all the original ideas - Geno and Mallow, adapting platforming mechanics for an RPG, and of course, the composer Yoko Shimomura is great.

[@The_gaming_archaeologist]

I totally forgot about blocking! That might be why the final boss keeps beating me.

[@Sirax123]

The she'll game is easier to follow with your finger. Back in the hay day, I used to have a really high success with it.

[@MasterLemonz]

Do you know some other examples of innovating combat system in an jrpg from around that era? After thinking a while the only significant change that I can come out with is the "active bar" from FF4 and so on. Great work and greetings from Spain!

[@GameSoup]

+Lemonz14 I haven't played nearly all of the RPGs from around this time, but the Final Fantasy games were all pretty revolutionary in adapting and updating the active time battle system. Games like Secret of Mana and Illusion of Gaia were good for trying out real-time combat, but in my experience nothing as drastic as Mario RPG's changes.

[@StuartRedman]

Is anyone else's thumb pressing an imaginary button while watching this?

[@KinkajusRevenge]

Getting a Freebie is a timed animation as well. It's not random.

[@Mr.G_717]

Mallow magic is beast bro. Mallow4smash

[@crowspirit1279]

2 minutes in. Which button do you press to block idgaf about history. The only reason I ask is because I recently like 5 minutes ago just downloaded an emulator to my phone and my mind is blown that I can play this game again after 20 years, but that I remember nothing except press a to attack harder at the right moment. I know there is a defense mechanic that is similar. But what is it? What button? I'll figure it out eventually.

[@LizethAplus]

Tengo muchos videos de Mario RPG que podrian gustarles!

[@jhonayo4887]

Mario Rpg till this day has better combat than most turn based jrpgs. It's friggin sad how little the jrpg genre has innovated.

[@igano111]

Someone should make a video about the timings for the various attacks/blocks. I'm level 6 and still haven't seen a timed Thunderbolt by Mallow (if it's actually possible). Anyway I don't really like the system, probably because I suck at it.

[@Biospark88]

You need to hit Y right before the animation ends.

[@GreatGloves]

Greetings from Finnish youtube channel!

[@GameSoup]

Hello there!

[@StrangerGamesStudio]

i`m making a game extremely inspired on this game, this game changed my conceptions about RPGs, unfortunalety i can`t do the damage when pressing a button, there`s a demo available at gamejolt, search CG the seven knights virus, thanks!

[@elgatochurro]

"The observant player may notice this trend" I NEVER noticed it, with how rpgs are with bitch radon dmg and varying stats based on level I never noticed such a thing in this mess of randomness and arbitrary blunders

[@TheKapadam]

I don't agree with part turn - part timed attacks. I have not played Super Mario RPG but I have played Vagrant Story, which seems very similar. I gave up on that game after a dozen hours. Having to precisely hit an attack every single time in every battle was just too stressful. The reason you play JRPGs (apart from the story and theme) is because you don't really want to exert yourself and play something relatively easy going. JRPGs have a specific Flow that timed attacks simply aren't compatible with. (Except if they are seen as special or a optional bonus to standard damage)

[@GameSoup]

+gus dam You're right about this - it can definitely become a problem, especially if the game is secretly balanced around performing really well in battle, instead of that feeling like a bonus. Mario RPG is very forgiving because the window for timed hits is really wide, but it still rewards the players that have more precision. I've never found it to be stressful in Mario RPG, and I hope you give the game a try!

[@henke37]

Your emulator needs replacement. It's buggy.

[@Guitarmonade]

A deceptively simple and, as you said, immersive gaming experience. But I still rage quit the game every time I try to earn the Super Jump items. That timing is bullshit.

[@goodoladam]

Sub.

[@Hoshionifumo]

pfft while there at it why not play chrono trigger, and the soul blazer , illusion of gaia and terrinigma. you know the other good games?

[@durpasaur3052]

legend of dragoon did it better

[@durpasaur3052]

truthfully not over all but I liked the combos more :P

[@dmas7749]

Didn't have timed blocks though

[@aaron8816]

Yes, but you had to be ready to cancel out an opponent's counterattack (when the blue square turns red) by pressing square instead of x. Keeps you on your toes at all times.