Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Ganondorf Pre-Release Analysis (Buffs, Nerfs, Frame-Data, Aesthetics)

Ganondorf has a fresh new redeasign to accompany him on his foray into Smash Bros. Ultimate. Is it all for show? Or are there more substantial changes to go with it?
WOOD's Twitter: @THEWoodmasta
Pushblock Gaming's Twitter: @PushBlockGaming
Pushblock Smash VOD channel:
/ @pushblockgaming
Special thanks to the Ganon discord (esp. Blobface)
/ discord
Thumbnail: PBLK GOOSHI | Spooks McDog
Music Used:
Devil's Theme(PSX) - Tekken 2 (PSX)
Gerudo Valley - LOZ: OOT (N64)
Break the Targets - SSBM
Final Ganon Battle - LOZ: OOT (N64)
Band Land - Rayman (PSX)

[@PBLKGaming]

POST RELEASE ADDENDUM THREAD The following moves have had their damage changed: Jab 10% > 11% Sour Dash Attack 10% > 11% Dash Attack 14% > 15% Wizkick 14% > 16% dTilt 13% > 14% fTilt 13% > 14% Up B 13.8% > 15.6%

[@Dr.CaveCurinas]

Oh dang, that makes Up B even better, and Wizkick could be more viable as a finisher.

[@KaiserPigu]

the idea of ganondorf with damage buffs scares me

[@3d_Prophecies]

Ganondorf mains unite.

[@keyonj8815]

I think his victory animation is when he laughs is from the part of the game when he enters the sacred realm and steals the reinforce 3

[@Lexicon865]

Ahahahahahahah Ahahahahahaha AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-*cough* fuck

[@kimarous]

The "crossing his arms and laughing" ending is probably in reference to "Yes, I owe it all to you, kid!" from Ocarina of Time (the cutscene after Link first draws the Master Sword).

[@janmatos6050]

Kimarous and reference to his victory pose on Brawl and 4

[@zanerichards4611]

Could also be a reference to his laugh in Wind Waker

[@kawatzaki]

Can confirm: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnrFnnaaYqyDnNk

[@kyeblade06]

at least ganon's run actually makes him look like he is trying to run not get his steps in

[@PBLKGaming]

hey man don't judge, he's had a knee replacement.

[@kyeblade06]

@@PBLKGaming im dying from that

[@grey3247]

The king of evil does not run

[@PBLKGaming]

Getting a lot of comments on this. His second victory pose actually references when you first open the door of time in OOT. ALSO something I missed that a viewer showed me. Ganon's back air actually does more damage. Sourspot buffed 16 to 17, sweetspot buffed from 18 to 18.5%. sorry for the oversight. - WOOD.

[@rgbymnky]

Hehe WOOD

[@er5624]

You missed a buff,Ganondorf is old af,so he has a mechanic called respect ur elders buff,this means once the match starts Ganon can get a free fully charged F-Smash

[@brandanladikos6406]

Edward Robinson The only downside, if you do this, is that you can't use vanilla skin Ganon.

[@er5624]

Update:Holy Moly I never seen this comment blowing up like this,thank u guys for so many likes

[@skullcollectionpr]

Facts

[@Madchimpz]

But this is Oot Ganondorf, and Oot was his origin story, so he's likely pretty young. He might even be younger than Captain Falcon (36).

[@Tubuxis]

Edward Robinson wow you're funny

[@ConnorEatsPants]

Dude your videos are absolutely great. Excited to watch you grow with the new game. Keep it up!

[@TheMornal]

I'd like to see Zelda next. There's a lot of different opinions floating around about her viability and I think a factual analysis of this level would help a ton with that kind of discussion.

[@DocTime56]

I don't care about Zelda since sm4sh, I really loved and used The character change, being able to use 2 characters in 1 was a huge advantage if you dominate both her and sheik

[@GhastlyMori]

I love all the changes to Ganondorf, however I really wanted him to have a Peach like float in reference to OOT, it would make his recovery really good and make his portrayal more accurate.

[@franciscofernandez8183]

DemonFunds his neutral b from pm seems to be the best option to give him a move

[@GhastlyMori]

I would love it if they replaced that garbage move with the dead man's volley, I am a little pessimistic on the possibility of them changing that, seems like the sword was a one and done deal, guess we will have to see when the game comes out.

[@Sompursone]

8:50 I know the Ultimate is referring to the game, but with the quality of these, it might as well be referring to the analysis video itself. Great work!

[@dusknoir64]

Actually, due to it's electric property, Ganon's dair can't be teched by grounded opponents. So it should be a considerably better move for starting combos now.

[@greynand8466]

you can't tech grounded dair in smash 4 either

[@dusknoir64]

@@greynand8466 Uh, yeah. That's how I knew that in the first place.

[@janmatos6050]

dusknoir64 if that's true, you know how much terror will inflict in my enemies?

[@janmatos6050]

dusknoir64 a super effective 0-pain combo thats for sure

[@bryanmorales3112]

electricity causes moves to have more hitstun frames I believe, or something similar. Overall electric attacks makes combos easier, but also DI'ing easier, too.

[@giraffe7753]

This is fantastic. Subscribed for the high quality. Can't wait to use Ganon

[@PBLKGaming]

Music in the description as always. Sorry for the delay and tone of voice. I caught a nasty cold at showdown - WOOD

[@Caaarl_]

You are one sicc boi

[@timbusdinkledorf1411]

Great video! Otakuni at Japan Expo had some great Link plays. There's a lot of footage of him playing now, so you should do Link next.

[@K-MRA]

Plz do Bayonetta. I wanna see how her needs affect her gameplay

[@Night_Quest]

The second victory animation is a reference to ocarina of time. See at 2:10 here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/boLRc6uMebdkpqc

[@hey-its-me8377]

Please do snake

[@crashandcortex]

That Tekken 2 Devil theme is *hot.* Was so happy to hear it! Also, I'm intrigued to see more detail on Mega Man and Pac-Man's changes myself.

[@lindblumpickles3407]

crashandcortex came to the comments to say the same thing. Mad respect for the song choice 👌🏻👌🏻

[@bluprintdhd4569]

Dude great video as always, you have so much quality in your content I love it.

[@nsns7993]

You sir, are a hero. Analyzing all that data and researching the background information is amazing! Subscribed and looking forward to your new vids (and smash)!

[@spellcasterneo]

Yo!!!! Thank you so much for these analysis videos. Not only are they educational but they really do show how much time Sakurai and his team spent with the game; not to mention that passion placed in the homages from every character and every franchise. It was if he took every character and analyzed every game they came from and added a piece of it in Smash.

[@Zephhyre]

good work on these smash videos man, subbed

[@timbusdinkledorf1411]

Do Link. He's very different. TONS of good footage of Otakuni playing Link at Japan Expo.

[@Jkg71]

I look forward to every analysis you put out! Good work on this one as usual :D

[@Aaron_Aroma]

fantastic analysis all around. keep it up!

[@ariabelove]

Dude! This is so helpful! Keep doing what you’re doing!!

[@nobodyimportant1031]

At 1:43, I believe it is referencing OoT when you draw the Master Sword from the pedestal. It has a cutscene where Ganondorf 'thanks' Link for undoing the seal and it ends with him crossing his arm and laughing. Also, it's kinda funny how the guy standing behind the TV is standing there, crossing his arms .

[@swaghettisauce]

I wish Ganondorf was decloned slightly more, like even just the animations on his up/down/neutral special could be changed slightly (still nearly identical to C. Falcon)

[@AveryCubed]

In defence of his neutral special. Falcons punch has always been a straight forward fist jab, whereas ganon takes on a sweeping backhand punch for his showstopper

[@LightbladeRiulo]

The second victory screen for Ganondorf is actually a reference to one of his cutscenes. It’s the one after you pull out the Master Sword in OoT. Where once he finishes gloating how “you basically gave him the triforce” he throws his head back and gives off an awesome laugh.

[@timbusdinkledorf1411]

Great Video. Let's get Link next boiiiii!

[@BloodSavedMe]

Keep up the work guys. PBLK killing it. Hats off to Wood.

[@MigMusic]

Ike In-Depth Analysis!!!! Everyone's saying that he's now high tier hahaha

[@TD0150]

His evil laugh victory pose is from when you first pull the master sword. A mirage of Ganondorf appears and tells the player that they lead him right into the sacred realm, then the camera pans out as he does a laugh with a very similar animation.

[@intergalacticspacewizard1966]

1:50 the laughing is from when you open the door in the temple of time and pull the master sword in OoT, i'm pretty sure he laughs the same way there

[@asherleviwoods6051]

I really really like these videos , keep em coming!

[@lizzieva1646]

Thank you. Ive been waiting for this

[@MFIBCN]

That armor on his wizard punch... Daaaayamnn

[@HaydenTheEeeeeeeeevilEukaryote]

liked before the video even started your character analysis’s are my favorite that I’ve found

[@Sazandora635]

I'm glad they buffed up tilt a fair bit. Even if it's not the most practical method of doing so using it as an edgeguard option is oh so satisfying when you actually get it to connect it, moreso now that it always gets the dramatic slow-mo when it connects.

[@rafita4665]

These videos are amazing, i hope you grow up as a youtuber :3

[@alexgagnon8298]

I loved the analysis on my main thanks man, i've seen some vids on sma5h ganon but nothing near the quality professional content you put out here, props to you man. Also i think Ganon got his magic life saving magnet hands removed but im not sure (just going off a tree house live vid i saw, the one with the 4 player ffa with sakurai, where someone gimped ganon and it looked like he couldve made it but he didnt).

[@rubberwoody]

magnet hands in general are much weaker

[@zack_9846]

You could Link next, especially since Otakuni paved way for what a bit of Link's new meta could be like. Also thank you for making these videos!

[@TheRealMew2king]

Doesn't Ganon's Fsmash start on frame 29 (overhead, hitting ground on 31), and Ganon's Upsmash start on frame 20? According to the 22 second trailer (which is 60fps) that's what I saw (unless there were charging frames I don't know about).

[@PBLKGaming]

I would trust these numbers more, as they were gleamed by me and other frame data analysts in the ganon cord from multiple instances of the move being used. It also is consistent with Ruben's frame data spreadsheet.

[@buda9652]

1:49 that is referencing when link pulls the master sword in ocarina of time and ganondorf laughing cutscene.

[@jay-jayz]

it would be pretty awesome to be able to change and pick what victory animations play at the end of a match.

[@lyconxero457]

I'd love to see one of these videos for Ike. I don't see a ton of people talking about him but Zero used him quite well in the invitational tournament and he was always one of my favorite characters.

[@kevinrivera9917]

1:48 I believe that may be a reference to his animation in the cutscene from Ocarina of Time when Ganondorf is gloating right after you open the door of time, basically giving him the triforce.

[@PBLKGaming]

Kevin Rivera I watched the whole cutscene. Didn't see anything like that.

[@kevinrivera9917]

PushBlock Gaming I guess I remembered it wrong. My bad lol EDIT: actually no I didn't. Search up link opens the door of time on KZbin at one point there's a cutscene with a white background ganondorf does that exact pose

[@kevinrivera9917]

PushBlock Gaming kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGHYaIqrjdR1mJo 2:25 at this linked vid. That's the pose I believe

[@PBLKGaming]

oh yo you right!

[@kevinrivera9917]

PushBlock Gaming lol I'm just happy to help 😊

[@alex_9949]

Best Smash ultimate content rn

[@blitz-frenchman663]

The fact that his bona fide "Leg Day" up-smash has been replaced will never stop hurting.

[@marche800]

I'd really like to see Zelda done next.

[@Ernireg3]

1:48 I think it references when Link first opened up the door of time and Ganondorf was able to access the sacred realm in OOT.

[@PBLKGaming]

WOOD mentioned this in another comment - Spooks McDog

[@divade]

For the lighting round. It may be more efficient to state the frame difference (ex:6 less), and then it's new faf, rather than all three numbers (S4, change, S5)

[@rubberwoody]

agreed, though players who aren't as familiar with their old frame data may be thinking "6 frames less...um...okay...is it good now?"

[@heatranleboss]

his smash attacks are really similar to ike's

[@PBLKGaming]

Mizak u maybe in terms of animation but damage/KB/and activity are all pretty different

[@divade]

The action of crouching during up and down smash are also slight buffs. These animations often go un-noticed.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

As a Ganon main I think they are better since they have more coverage around him

[@janmatos6050]

Mizak u and Dsmash from Cloud's

[@WideMouth]

He seems to have borrowed his side and up smash attacks from Ike and his down smash attack from Cloud. At least in terms of animation. Ocarina of Time Ganondorf never wielded a sword in-game, so there’s not a lot to draw inspiration from.

[@bash8598]

Samus!! Please lol everyone says she sucks now

[@SydneySininen]

Smash Parker Ganon and Samus dash attack angles are worse for followups apparently

[@bash8598]

Chief Sininen yeah I saw that....kinda sad because I loved her smash4 incarnation. Combo characters are alot of fun and I had a blast switching between her offensive and defensive styles. Zero apparently said that all her aerials do like 20 percent now lol so it seems she'll play very differently.

[@Technoblast649]

"Now". She always sucked.

[@SydneySininen]

TechnoBlast649 yeah but she had decent combos off of DA and now we might not even see that. Also decent in Melee

[@letacodilesupreme6445]

@@SydneySininen We don't need Dash Attack Simulators, but we do need buffs for more fighters.

[@ericlindberg4522]

2:36 the range on that down smash though

[@eliteteutonicknight1]

Tekken 2 Kazuya at the beginning...

[@ant-fan]

I'd love to see you do Mega Man. Just about nobody is talking about him, but with footstools being techable now, I was wondering how the rest of his kit will be able to handle that nerf.

[@3rdDayfan777]

Evil Daddy is going to be amazing, I can't wait!

[@Mosheven]

I appreciate the band land rayman music at the end.

[@bluefalcon7]

His second victory pose is the laugh that he does when you open the door of time and pull the master sword from the pedestal for the first time in oot he laughs at you with his arms crossed because you just handed him the sacred realm.

[@RyanGatts]

I'd be really interested in seeing this video re-addressed now that ultimate has been around a bit

[@GizzPill]

I love these videos since they help me decide on day 1 mains, so i'd like to see Zelda in the next episode

[@Awesomaze]

his laughing is when he got into the sacred realm in oot when link drew the master sword

[@maxieprimo2758]

Ganondorf in OoT is by far my favorite character design of all time, and seeing it in Ultimate is amazing. Sad he doesn't kick the sky anymore tho, that was such a good move. Also the red and gray skin being removed is a big nerf, Sakurai bring it back

[@k-leb4671]

Alt skins have been hit-or-miss in Ultimate. A lot of the new ones are great, but we've lost some classics that we shouldn't have lost.

[@MrMarinus18]

I prefer his TP design. It looks a lot more regal and imposing.

[@vyshnavvenkatesh4902]

The second victory pose is similar to when Ganondorf laughs in ocarina of time after tricking young link to opening the Sacred Realm

[@Thiagomii]

Do ness please!

[@o.o.4238]

Thiagomii yassssss

[@raph2550]

You forgot one huge nerf: Ganondorf got his magnet arms removed, meaning his recovery is now really really poor

[@Zadonitz]

Is this true?

[@jj1337]

Dair landing lag buff from 26 to 17 would actually make it much safer on shield, and on whiff, the opponent might only get a tilt instead of a smash attack or another strong move. On hitting a grounded opponent, even though it might not start a combo, it still gives ganon more time to chase and cut off some escape options.

[@tannerbrodt8419]

Great music at the end. Rayman!

[@Brandonrios365]

I love it since I main Ganondorf, he seems a lot better now and he uses his sword! Also, when I saw his Down Smash, I immediately thought of Cloud’s, it looks almost exactly the same.

[@iiequinox8044]

Those followup after his down B would be so useful, considering it used to be unsafe on hits at early percentages.

[@Tubeytime]

Kirby next! I love these videos, the best analysis series hands down.

[@RedZtehWARRIOR]

Ganon is definitely gonna be more tourney worthy this time around, can’t wait!

[@Jackioz]

At 1:46 you say you can't find anything it could be referencing, that's actually the animation you see Ganondorf make after Link pulls up the Master Sword the first time. It's kinda iconic, just saying.

[@samuelsolberg7329]

good eye!

[@PBLKGaming]

Jack Gonzales yes I had that pointed out to me. Thank you!

[@zero2xsammy125]

i am glad you did not show his other alt skins but i am sad they did not also add his phantom ganon costume and the blueskin/whitehair is so much better than old mold boi

[@colinhughes101]

I play Ganondorf a lot so this is going to make playing as him a lot better

[@greblosmas]

Do Link next please!

[@luissilva1954]

About refreshing your moveset with pummel: When you grab an opponent, *only the first pummel counts* towards the stale move list. If you grab, pummel, and throw, you'll only add 2 moves to the list, even if you pummel your opponent 10 times. At least that was how it worked back in brawl and smash4. It might have changed anyway.

[@PBLKGaming]

Every input counts in smash 4 with the exception of 3 parter moves like bayo fair and metaknight ftilt. For instance if you hold the a button with falcon he will do a jab 1 2 3 and only 1 spot will be filled. But if you tap the A button 3 times to do it, 3 spots are filled. Every pummel counts as a separate input. Even if this wasn't the case, my prior point about being able to "squeeze" more damage in at lower percents still holds.

[@luissilva1954]

my b then, thanks for the information

[@ImmaFarmerInMalaysia]

6:33 Ganondorf's down-air against grounded opponents cannot be teched, which means it can lead into guaranteed aerials, however the nerf to footstools does indirectly hinder its combo potential a bit.

[@PBLKGaming]

Luigi Linguine in smash 4 you could act immediately out of spike bounce. He'd have to hit a grounded opponent.

[@ImmaFarmerInMalaysia]

I know, I clarified that the down-air combos grounded opponents.

[@samweintraub5695]

Great music man

[@TheRegulus01]

Good to see the king loosing some weight for the battle. Devil's theme goes pretty well with him.l

[@breakfast5152]

Ike pls

[@cullenhutchison6528]

_we like_

[@umtrain1730]

Breakfast515 Yes, the longsword style big boi.

[@CarbonMalite]

TP Ganon I thought was better aesthetically, but when you try to put a movesets on him he just looks clunky just like he plays. TP Ganon just looks like he can't move in that armor, just look at his terrible run animation.

[@WideMouth]

TinStar Although, Twilight Princess Ganondorf was the only one to use a single sword. The Ocarina of Time Ganondorf never wielded a sword in-game. It’s weird they would change the design and then give him a sword.

[@CarbonMalite]

@@WideMouth Likely a call back to his victory animation from Melee where he swings it around. That begs the question, did they keep his sword taunt in or did it change?

[@Invertedzero]

WideMouthWideMouthia Didnt he have one in a Gamecube Tech demo a couple years before release?

[@KreshWC]

Yes he first used his Melee sword in the Gamecube tech demo in a cinematic duel against Link. He also still has his sword taunt he just pulls out this sword instead of the one from Twilight Princess.

[@zeldahistorian]

@@WideMouth And Toon Ganon. But he's not in Smash, is he? *Cries*

[@falken8642]

Gannon up-smash was my favourite move in both brawl and smash 4. I know he's gotten some massive buffs and I love it and I understand why it might have needed to go, but the loss of that attack will hurt my soul

[@BossCrazyRoss]

So hyped for this game!

[@Rivurzs]

Yes you are right but the victory pose also references his victory pose in smash 4

[@tobsmonster2]

Second taunt could be his laughing scene from Wind Waker

[@zector6179]

As always good shit wood

[@NC_Cymphonies]

But what about Warlock Punch?

[@The15231]

Though the total run speeds are the same, the dash speeds seem to be a decent bit faster. It's almost 24 hours left to test though so we'll see soon enough.

[@XR_Chaos]

I would kill to see a Marcina analysis so I can at least see what they'll possibly be like in ultimate

[@valaine219]

I would like to see an analysis of Zelda next, to see how much has changed exactly.

[@michaelmccarty1327]

1:45 "I cannot find anything that this would be referencing, but it certainly does give off that evil king vibe." Basically, Ganondorf's Smash Brothers design philosophy in a nutshell. "But Sakurai San, this isn't Ganondorf, it's just Captain Falcon! What does this guy do that Ganondorf does in his games?" "Well... I cannot find any moves in the games that his moves would be referencing, but it certainly does give off that evil king vibe."

[@Velumbra]

Ridley, Link, Ganon, Mewtwo and Meta Knight looks promising. I look forward to playing them in ultimate, Ridley and Link in particular.

[@EDoyl]

Perfect mix of decent-character fast Ganondorf from Melee and the much more flavorful mega-slow sm4sh version. He still seems slower than most characters and I reckon movement speed is going to be the single most important factor in competitive viability thanks to the new anti-combo knockback putting your opponent far from you when they're disadvantaged. I hope, and expect, that he'll land in the same area of popularity in competitive as Melee Ganon did, where he can work as a perfectly valid solo main if you're willing to put in the time to master a low-mid tier. Sm4sh Ganon needed these buffs. Also that jab is mind-blowing incredible and losing the back end of up air is a way bigger deal than you made it out to be.

[@birdenand]

Eoin Doyle I’m afraid I disagree. He’s simply too bad to get as popular as melee Ganon. Considering everyone else is getting huge buffs and Ganon is getting some pretty big nerfs even though he was already the second worst character, he seems like he’s going to be by far the worst.

[@JediJess1]

suggestion! to help you decide which character to do next with the players comments, try getting us to comment with #nextCharacter or something similar to your liking. Might help you to numerate the votes. as for my pick, I'm a Big Mario fan and a Melee Marth Main... but I think I want to see Sonic. He seems like he can play the Melee Falcon's Hit-Chase-Hit- strategy. from what I could tell, in past games, when sonic jumped, his grounded speed didn't carry over to his aerial agility. I think that's changed. if not, then something about him feels faster and better. I don't mean just his run speed, and reduced landing lag is obvious. I think there's something else about him that I quite like. This oppinion was formed from watching the SSBU Tourney finals.

[@PBLKGaming]

JediJess1 I really like that idea actually - WOOD

[@GeneralForster]

Just thought I'd say that I'm pretty sure they buffed the sourspot on Volcano Kick, in Smash 4, the sweetspot is on his leg, with the explosion being a sourspot, could have changed but for now I'm going to assume it's a buff. Hopefully it still instantly shatters shields.

[@PBLKGaming]

1. it does 2. as far as which hitbox has been buffed it seems to only have 1 hitbox type now. 24% across the board. no more outward hitting hitbox, more consistency etc.

[@GeneralForster]

Oh, thanks for the information, you're as thorough as ever it seems. Glad I can still delete shield against inexperienced players (and maybe even experienced ones who try to get fancy by trying to perfect shield, haha!)

[@shinigmiblacky1331]

I liked the look of TwilightPrincess Ganon :( BUT HOLY FUQK, THAT SWORD THO

[@MasterEdwardHydeEvil]

Simon Belmont killed Ganondorf 😂😂

[@SydneySininen]

I wish aerial down b had less landing lag so you could combo off of the shockwaves.

[@_midrash]

Ness please! I would love to see a video on him

[@kelvindavis172]

It looks like Ganon will be about as good as he was in Melee, maybe even better. Can you do an analysis on my main Kirby next?

[@m.marcelle969]

Cool video!👍 Can you please make a Zelda analysis! ☺️

[@adhdlama2403]

dammmmn a wild rayman band land track appeared!!

[@ChunkySpaghetti]

Inklings next! i want to hear about the newer fighters

[@jonathanunova2856]

Please do Ness next time, it would make me so happy!