Would a Horcrux Show Up on the Marauder's Map? | Harry Potter Film Theory

[@CCMuffin]

Out of all “filch is a poltergeist” things you’ve come up with- the pin is certainly that mrs. Norris shows up on the map but other animals dont. The only other conclusion i would have is that mrs. Norris is around during the marauders time and therefor would be a threat to look out for specifically.

[@arthurdoktor]

By the end of the last book it will have been twenty years since the Marauders left the school, assuming miss Norris is a regular cat it is highly unlikely she would live so long.

[@bradrich2000]

@@arthurdoktor not a regular cat

[@arthurdoktor]

@@bradrich2000 yes I was trying to argue she is not at regular cat

[@DarthSanguine]

@@arthurdoktor Unlikely, but not impossible. The oldest ever cat irl lived to be 38.

[@Vincent.E.M.Thorn.Author]

This same video brings up Maladictus like Nagini.

[@ysgramorssoupspoon2261]

Objection! Horcuxes don't have feet therefore one could not show up on the map.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Would that mean someone in a wheelchair wouldn't show up or maybe have a different symbol and Peter would have four feet on the map then

[@coolnerdlll6053]

Harry and formerly Nagini: Am I a joke to you?

[@drm726]

Except that showing people as feet is movie nonsense and in fact people are specifically referred to as little dots in the books.

[@amberbanuelos7053]

@@coolnerdlll6053came to say the same thing.

[@Phoenix-LBS]

@@coolnerdlll6053💀

[@brantjustilian3791]

Well, Fred and George might be confused that there’s five kids inside the castle all named Tom Riddle. lol

[@genio2509]

But seriously thinking, if the horcruxes did show up on the map, they would have only seen 2: Quirrell and the dairy (accompanying Ginny), so you have a Tom Riddle next to the teacher every time they looked at him and then the next year that same person accompanying Ginny every time they looked at her, so it should be really suspicious for the twins.

[@rennakahara7851]

Three actually - You're forgetting Harry.

[@genio2509]

@@rennakahara7851 Harry's horcrux does not appear, he would have found it himself without a doubt otherwise.

[@rennakahara7851]

@@genio2509 It was your hypothetical, dude. Obviously horcruxes don't appear on the map at all since this is the case. If one appears, they all have to appear. You can't pick and choose

[@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185]

​@@rennakahara7851The video explained this. Harry's soul dwarfs Voldemort's soul so the map only registers him as Harry

[@Sirius_CanisMajor]

an idea: what would snapes portrait (after the wizarding war) think about harry? will he still despise him? or would he like him? or something in between? and would snape be moved by harry's insistence that his portrait is hanged, and that harry named his son after him? WE NEED A SNAPE PORTRAIT AFTER-MATH DISCUSSION!!!!!

[@genio2509]

Idk, in the movie they added the line of "You have your mother's eyes" which I think is a good addition, as it shows Snape finally getting past the James in him and seeing the Lily. So in the movie I do think the portrait would think at least ok about him. Book Snape though did not get any kind of half-redemption, but he did say he cared for Harry, so probably would just not say bad things, but I don't think he would be praising him either.

[@TheKingDreamerLB]

Snape never got a portrait

[@mindovermatterbecomingyour1561]

​@@TheKingDreamerLBactually he did after the war Harry made sure that snape got his portrait hung in the headmasters office as snape WAS an official headmaster of Hogwarts whereas umbridge never got a portrait as she was never properly made headmistress fudge just abused his power & illegally declared her headmistress

[@mindovermatterbecomingyour1561]

​@@genio2509snape DIDNT care about Harry though in fact snape was insulted & repulsed by Dumbledores mere suggestion that that was the case then he cast his patronus to prove that it was lily he cared about snape only ever agreed to watch over & protect Harry as a self-imposed punishment for his role in Lilly's death (telling Voldemort the 1st half of the prophecy that he overheard)

[@genio2509]

@@mindovermatterbecomingyour1561 Snape despised him all his life, but did care for him, at least physically, because of Lilly. I think I can't really write what I want to say, but he didn't want him dead, and at the end grew slightly, actually caring for his physical being.

[@takumi2023]

You know the answer is quite simple. The map makers wanted to track ms noris and peeves so they can sneak around them plain and simple.

[@hempsellastro]

Just what I thought. Surely the Marauders could have added Mrs Norris, Peeves and other known threats on top of the general Homonculous charm. The basilisk was not known to Marauders so they would not have added it.

[@ManLikeGoodFilm]

So Mrs. Norris is around 20 Years old.

[@hempsellastro]

@@ManLikeGoodFilm Maybe a little older in the final book - surely not completely unbelievable especially in the context of the ages in the wizard world generally.

[@BroCo87]

@@ManLikeGoodFilmshe’s a poltergeist

[@EpicRandomness555]

That still doesn’t answer how they would’ve specifically marked them down on there even though the rules apply differently to everything else

[@drVarulv]

The "of course sir, im an elf" scene is one of the best in the whole film franchise

[@sullisen]

Kind of made me want to see a book, film, game, whatever from the perspective of a house elf for some reason.. Set in the 2050s, Hermione having never given up on SPEW finally achieves one of her life ambitions, bringing about the liberation of house elves (elfs?) breaking their bonds to their respective families(though they can of course choose to stay but no longer in forced servitude). And we find out about Dobby and Winkys secret offspring and get to follow their tentative first steps in a wizarding world where they aren't AS much of an outcast for following in their parents footsteps and electing to remain free, and generally the integration of free elves with their special brand of magic into wizarding society. Okay that doesn't even sound good but SOMETHING with a house elf protagonist..

[@ignisofficialgaming]

Objection! Because Voldemort is latched onto Quirrel’s body as a parasite, he wouldn’t show up on the map by the same logic as Harry and Nagini. There’s a dominant soul in the form by sheer percentage and by extension control. If we operate on the simple logic that each time Voldy split his soul he lost 50% of what he had, he would be down to single digits for his percentage by the time of the series and as such would not show up unless he has his own body

[@beaniebear1122]

The thought of Joy representing Voldemort sounds very funny to me.

[@coolnerdlll6053]

It's also ironic that Quirrell isn't Fear.

[@Soph1aF]

@@coolnerdlll6053 Lol!

[@GrangerPOVs]

@@coolnerdlll6053 wasn't that whole thing just an act tho

[@coolnerdlll6053]

​@@GrangerPOVs Yeah, but it's still funny.

[@GrangerPOVs]

@@coolnerdlll6053 fair.

[@NussbaumBros]

Questions: 1 What would happen if the trace was triggered in a fidelius charmed house would it work? 2 What would happen if you polyjuiced into a viela are they the same species? It works when Fleur does it and she’s 1/4 Viela

[@Ollie.H-23]

It's said to be only for human transformations. Hermione accidentally tales it and it would turn her into a cat. Hagrid asks why Lupin doesn't check he's actually Hagrid in Deathly Hallows and Lupin responds "it's only for human transformations and you're Half Giant". So that means someone can't turn into Hagrid due to him being half giant. So if you see Hagrid it's always Hagrid and the same applies to Fleur, if you see her, it's 100% Fleur. I don't think I've explained this well but what I mean is that anyone can take the potion as long as they're turning into a human, but not the other way around.

[@EzaleaGraves]

*Gives polyjuice potion to my dog so he can talk to me*

[@NussbaumBros]

@@Ollie.H-23 Interesting 🤔 That’s super weird

[@MatthewMorris6148]

Regarding the first question: I don’t think it would. They would probably get a ping that Magic was cast, but they wouldn’t be able to tell where. Actually, I think there’s an exception to this. I think that if the person with the trace is also a secret keeper, then it would work. I don’t really have any evidence to back any of this up, it’s just my opinion.

[@amberbanuelos7053]

@@Ollie.H-23I wonder if Fleur can take Polyjuice because she’s only 1/4 Veela while Hagrid cannot because he’s 1/2 giant, or if Veela are genetically closer to humans than giants are? Lupin knew Hagrid was Hagrid because Hagrid couldn’t take Polyjuice during the same events where Fleur took Polyjuice to become Harry, so is it because she has less Veela than Hagrid has giant or because Veela are more genetically similar to humans? Totally don’t expect you to have the answer, but it is an interesting topic to explore.

[@BilliamJoyBoy]

Would be hilarious if Fred and George knew Tom riddle was on the back of his head and that’s why they were throwing the snowballs, to see if he would take it off 😂

[@meleardil]

Girls can go to boys dormitory, but boys CAN NOT go to girls dormitory. Seeing Tom Riddle SLEEPING with Ginny would have been more than suspicious for two protective brothers.

[@BilliamJoyBoy]

@@meleardil furthermore they would have saw the same tom riddle with Quirrell in book one and than with Ginny in book 2 and why didn’t it show with Harry too? He is a horacrux too. Also dumbledore found the ring in the shreaking shack which is on the map because snape and lupin saw the trio there with Sirius, and Peter too I guess, so wouldn’t they notice there was a Tom riddle there too?

[@vyran7044]

@@meleardil While yes one would thinks so they also failed to notice peter sleeping with ron soo...

[@MagicXRoads534]

@@BilliamJoyBoy It doesn't show Tom next to Harry because (as they said in the video) his soul massively dwarfs the piece of Voldemort's that resides within him, essentially his location on the map is, first and foremost, occupied by the person of Harry Potter. The same could also be said of Quirrel, but the fact that he was housing Voldemort Prime may have some impact on that. Mostly though, you might want to read the 3rd and 6th books again, because none of what you said after "harry is a horcrux" is true. Dumbledore found the ring in the Gaunt House, which is no where near Hogwarts, and even the shrieking shack is not on the map, everyone seen "in the shrieking shack" was seen in the passage under the whomping willow *before* leaving the castle grounds.

[@pinchusyagid8225]

In fact, house elf powerful magic is the same reason why dobby was able to enter Snape's office to steal the Gillyweed. Snape, unfortunately, had forgotten about that detail by placing a powerfull security charm on the DOORWAY...

[@siamath9954]

Ben's Dobby impression: 10/3

[@mikehawlkridge903]

9/10 doctors agree

[@tiffanybeuselinck1001]

I'd say more like 9¾

[@Maartimer]

I always wondered how Voldemort could enter the room of hidden things, see the piles and piles of hidden things and think "no one else has found this room or will find it in the future"

[@oshersharaby]

It's not about finding the room, but the object (horcrux) itself. Sometimes the best hiding place is in plain sight - even if someone did see the diadem - and very likely someone actually has over the years it's been there, they wouldn't really think anything in particular of it considering all the other junk there.

[@Maartimer]

@@oshersharaby But Voldemort literally thinks to himself that: "He alone knew where in Hogwarts he had stowed the Horcrux, because he alone had plumbed the deepest secrets of that place..." That doesn't sound like it's about it being hard to find it once you're in the room (which I'm not sure it would really be if there are ways to trace powerful magic).

[@firestar4430]

1. He was incredibly arrogant and convinced himself he's the best. 2. I believe this thinking led him to asking a very different question to the room of requirement. Harry asked for help hiding something, knowing he couldn't do it on his own. I think Tom, with his predilections for collecting objects, told the door, "show me a room full of treasures."

[@SkyPerson]

The Room of Hidden Things most likely conjures like 80-ish% of the stuff in the room to help hiding things, so Voldy probably realised that it gave him what he needed, “a place to hide something” at which point, because of his arrogance, assumed that it was all fake cause he was “the only one to ever find it”

[@juanmoreno6591]

The fact that there is mountains of hidden objects, a lot of them very valuable, is solid proof that nobody had figured out how the room actually works

[@michaelshelling8738]

I think it is a lot simpler. The Homunculus Charm specifies "Enables the possessor of the map to track the movements of every person in the castle". What if the charm uses the possessors or casters definition of a "person"? The Marauders and Harry would both think of Filch and Peeves as people. They would not, however, think of a horcrux mainly because when it was first used/created, they did not know what a horcrux was.

[@XDSDDLord]

I don't think that's how magic works, though. There is a rule that says you can't create food by magic, and I'm a Jew and don't think of pork as food, so does that mean I can conjure up a ham?

[@willsafran8855]

If a maledictus show up on the Marauder's Map couldn't that be the reason Mrs. Norris shows up?

[@adamn.4615]

That’s what I was thinking.

[@Soph1aF]

​@@adamn.4615 Is Mrs. Norris a confirmed maledictus?

[@azzarzi]

@@Soph1aF it's not confirmed, it's only a theory, and I don't believe it has been ruled out either.

[@Jamilajahankhushbu]

or it could be that the Marauders specifically added Mrs. Norris because her job is to track students out of bed.

[@azzarzi]

@@Jamilajahankhushbu thats true

[@BigBoyJay_69]

10:45 I never thought about this. So wouldn't the map show Quirell with a student Tom Riddle at all times? Surely, the twins would have caught on to the fact that everywhere Quirell goes there is a Tom Riddle right on top of him.

[@meleardil]

Girls can go to boys dormitory, but boys CAN NOT go to girls dormitory. Seeing Tom Riddle SLEEPING with Ginny would have been more than suspicious for two protective brothers.

[@TiMoThY211991]

Something that strikes me as much more likely is that the Marauders created an exception specifically for Mrs. Norris because she is a threat to the Marauders getting in trouble. They needed to know the cat's whereabouts in order to be able to avoid her effectively.

[@shutupandrun2011]

That is an awfully old cat then. The map came to exist before the guys graduated. Lily was 20 when she had Harry, plus the 11+ years of Harry's life. That puts Mrs Norris at 34+ years old.

[@T.B.o.b]

If you're doing the question of whether people kissed by a Dementor are on the map, can you add how having a horcruxe would work if kissed (by a Dementor)?

[@TheDMan2003]

Assuming the horcrux can be kissed to begin with?

[@dnicej1293]

If you got kissed, could your friends fill your body with your horxrux and bring you back? Any kissed body?

[@TheDMan2003]

@@dnicej1293 Nope. Once you get kissed, you’re toast. You just exist as an empty shell, and according to Lupin, “there’s no chance at all of recovery.”

[@insaincaldo]

@@TheDMan2003 An assumption based on the kiss taking your whole soul.

[@reecejohnson7252]

@@TheDMan2003that was based on the knowledge that you’re soul was intact and whole. If you split your soul like Voldemort did, you theoretically could have your segment of soul put back into your body. Or at least put into a newly created body. The whole point of the horcrux is that it anchors your soul to life the only difference is that someone else would have to perform the magic needed to transfer it.

[@Silver_Girl178]

Horcruxi are dependent on/shielded by their containers, so as long as they stay inside of even an inanimate object, I don't think they would show up as a soul on the map. But, you're right, Tom Riddle would have shown up if he had fully manifested outside of the diary.

[@naomi_falk]

Love when the podcast overlaps with this channel!

[@kylestout7008]

My personal headcannon is that the Marauders were able to plot the normally unplottable grounds of Hogwarts because they used the Quill of Acceptance and the Book of Admittance to make it.

[@XDSDDLord]

I'm pretty sure that is exactly how it works and why muggles wouldn't show up.

[@wrdreads4742]

I always pictured the castle walls on the map actually being the names of portraits on the walls...

[@wiktoriatluvi]

Nice move to acknowledge the reviewer bringing up a subject :) (I was kinda hoping you would do that for the cloak one too with every new video, but oh well, at least now you do it, keep up the fun stuff, I’m loving the podcast 😊✨)

[@BatFlash52]

Question: Would He who must not be Named show up as Voldemort or Tom Riddle? I’m assuming Riddle because Voldemort is a nickname, but does the Map take in preferences? I mean it does call Myrtle, Moaning Myrtle? Though it’s weird the Marauders don’t show up under their own nicknames, figured they put that in case anyone else ever got the Map.

[@Alienchief1994]

Trying to remember, but do we ever actually see the mauraders on the map? Obviously Mooney sees Worm tail. But do they say how they appear?

[@mindovermatterbecomingyour1561]

I think it would show Tom Riddle as that's Voldemorts true identity since it shows James Sirius Remus & Peter rather than moony wormtail padfoot & prongs also keep in mind that a LOT of people knew the marauders nicknames as they were quite popular & regularly called each other their nicknames

[@mindovermatterbecomingyour1561]

​@@Alienchief1994lupin says specifically that he saw Peter & Sirius on the map as Peter & Sirius

[@chadrussell1221]

The marauders might not want to be on the map as their nicknames, as if caught with it would give away that they had made the map rather than remaining potentially innocent

[@SgtSupaman]

Maybe when Harry saw Moaning Myrtle on the map, it just said Myrtle, but he automatically appends the "Moaning" part of her name in the narrative because that is how he knows her. Or maybe ghosts actually show by the names they are known by instead of what they were named in life. For instance, it doesn't seem like anyone even knows the old name of the Bloody Baron. So, after death, they basically got new names.

[@marcosmwb8444]

When I saw the title I immediately thought, harry would notice tom riddle written near harry potter

[@delbertdoppler]

There were 2 specific editing decisions in this video that I want to appreciate with this comment: 1) using Joy and Sadness from Inside-Out as representations of Voldemort and Quirrel respectively. I don't know if it's awful in the best way or awesome in the worst way, but it's a superlative either way and I like that. 2) Ben saying "Kinda creepy,... right?" with the most cursed editing I've ever seen in a non-horror piece of content sent me. It was so unexpected for me and it was glorious

[@itchybelle]

I have been WAITING for someone to comment this exact comment you win you’re my favorite

[@pj14482]

6:48 “housing Voldemort Prime for an entire year“ does not make Quirrell into a Horkrux…or else you‘d have to count Voldemort Prime later on as well as a Horkrux, right?! Quirrell‘s just a mere host for this freaking parasite… a. k. a. Voldi

[@oshersharaby]

I guess he's probably not a horcrux in the sense that he probably wasn't created with the complex dark magic involved in the creation of one. However, like a horcrux, he was undeniably holding a piece of voldemorts soul, and his 'prime' piece at that. So it still functioned the same if not very similarly, being a container of said soul.

[@michaelzautner4848]

Fred and George super casual about people they don’t know sleeping with their siblings at school.

[@monkeymajor128]

And there LITTLE sister to be exact! No way they are way more protective than that!!

[@TheToneBender]

I don't think Quirrel would count as a horcrux. Voldemort was more of a parasite living on him than his soul being attached to Quirrel.

[@mcg10004]

The idea that Tom Riddle would have shown up, or Voldermorts name with Quirrel is now head cannon for WHY Fred and George was pelting him with snowballs

[@jawstrock2215]

The easier explanation is, the map shows what the Marauders knew. -They knew the school was for human wizards, and their staff. -They knew of Peeves, Mrs Noris and Filtch -They knew all the ghosts. All 3 are things you don't want to cross when walking out at night. They also knew about Animagus magic, so they could plot that too. And probably had the Centaurs as well, and other half species. It doesn't show the secret passage from the Room of requirement and Hog's Mead as they didn't know about it. They certainly would not know about Horcruxes. So they wouldn't be plotting them(If Horcrux can be plotted at all in the first place.. and if they were, it would make for poor protection.. just walk with an Horcrux detector really.). Besides they are suppose to be inanimate objects, so, you wouldn't care about them anyway on a map made to track safe passages of the school.

[@XDSDDLord]

Yeah, but they knew about the house elves, and they don't show up.

[@JustACactus616]

This is random, but I was thinking about Patronuses (or as I like to say, Patroni) and is it just a coincidence that Lupin’s patrons is a wolf? Or is there more to it?

[@lukeroberson2115]

Lupin's probably isn't a coincidence due to being a werewolf defining his life the way it does. Like how Snape's is a doe because Lily defined his life.

[@insaincaldo]

Seems likely, he would not have found his patronus prior to being bitten.

[@VarianAlastair]

This is called theming

[@pipwilson7435]

Yikes! You've convinced me! At the start of the video I was like, obviously not.

[@wolfkniteX]

I mean, if Filch and Ms. Norris were both working in school at the same time as when the Maruaders attended Hogwarts then it's likely they would've taken Ms. Norris into special consideration given her connection to Filch and they simply wanted to watch out for her to avoid her. Same logic can be considered for Peeves given how chaotic and unpredictable he can be. If they wanted to avoid him to go about unnoticed the map would help them stay away from him.

[@MirMurAcle]

Okay hear me out. Horcruxes don’t show up on the map. Harry was a horcrux and Tom doesn’t show up on the map with him. Case closed :D

[@AthenianOwl237]

Yeah there's some of these that are just too stretchy

[@MirMurAcle]

Too true. I’m all for theories but this one just doesn’t fly

[@SalKhayer]

The relationship with the SCB guys and the captioner is top tier. One of the previous videos where they used "ph" or "f" as a replacement sound and the captioner absolutely nails it is excellent.

[@stefrondi1339]

Top tier Dobby impression 😊

[@hubertnnn]

I think some of the horcrucses might show, but not for reason you mentioned. Each time Voldemord split his soul the next horcrucs have less and less. First horcrucs would be 1/2 of soul, second would be 1/4 of soul, third would be 1/8 of soul etc. So at some point soul would be so little that the map will no longer show him. Since Harry was the last horcrucs he has the least of Voldemord soul, so no Tom Riddle on the map next to him.

[@animefan-ji8rd]

thats implying that making a horcrux evenly splits the soul each time. what if it only tore away a pertion of a soul (to bring Voldemorts own ideas into play, 1/7th per hercrux). if it does work like you said, that how much soul is needed for a horcrux to show up on the map?

[@meleardil]

I always interpreted is a fragmentation of the soul. Cracking and fracturing itt. to be immortal is the only goal, so it makes no sense to put MORE soul into a horcrux than absolutely necessary. I still think that Voldy-prime had the vast majority of soul-volume even after creating 8 horcuxes. I think that is backed up by the maimed creature image in the Limbo. It is not a 1/128 speckle of a soul.

[@TheUmbroDragon]

I was under the impression that any creature with a name would appear on the map. Because what you say about spiders and ants is true. There would ge thousands. But i think if hagrids pet spider was in the castle, you would see his name. The important aspect of the map locating people is the information of their name and location. So it would be safe to assume that it would have to be a creature that has been named.

[@Foxfire-xq5ij]

I agree. I think crookshanks, and other pets would show up. I think only animals with close ties to wizards would show up. So headwig would show, but not all the owls.

[@XDSDDLord]

@@Foxfire-xq5ij All the owls belong to some wizard or another.

[@traviseller8160]

Mr. Prime V is a fragment of a soul. Just because he is the "prime" version doesn't mean he isn't a fragment. The prime fragment, if you will.

[@oshersharaby]

Yea it's just where his 'consciousness' is at that moment

[@traviseller8160]

@@oshersharaby The fact you don't "feel" your soul dieing via horcrux death. I guess with separating ones soul means it's not "connected" to you. It's a soul though, shouldn't you still feel it?

[@oshersharaby]

@@traviseller8160 I'm not sure what you're trying to say ^^

[@traviseller8160]

@@oshersharaby When the "Golden Trio" destroyed the horcrux Mr. V didn't know until later on. Feels like if a part of your soul "dies" you would feel the death, if you will.

[@pedroandrade9088]

yes. Moreover, Voldemort himself describes his state after the curse goes back on him as "less than the meanest ghost".

[@thephonegamespecialist6883]

1:43 Is it just me, or should Harry have been a more supportive friend to Ron, since he knew Ron didn't really want to be among the spiders he was terrified of. Harry was having an important conversation, but still, he should have been supporting his best friend.

[@olivergellertjohansen1115]

Yet another win for the Carlin Brothers!!!

[@jakeferreira1211]

I don't think Quirrell counts as a horcrux. Voldemort never went through the process of removing a part of his soul and attaching it to him. That's just Voldemort attaching himself to Quirrell.

[@Soph1aF]

What about Harry being a horcrux? It mentions a lot that Harry sees himself, and he knows who Tom Riddle is. It would also be kinda strange to see yourself with someone you're not.

[@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185]

Harry's soul dwarfs Voldemort's soul so the map only registers him as Harry.

[@Soph1aF]

@@satsujin-shathewitchkingof6185 Ohhhh, that makes sense.

[@AuthorZaraHoffman]

My theory would have been (regarding people, not things of the castle): whole soul (which still applies to ghosts) vs horcruxes (PART of a soul)

[@JustACactus616]

I was wondering what if you Avada Kedavra (or kill in any way) a horcrux? Does that split your soul????

[@amandapanda2803]

There is another spell that is cast to create the horcrux the murder is part of the ritual. I think if you did this with a horcrux it wouldn’t work because you’re only destroying part of a soul. Not separating one from the body.

[@LexrytXIV]

Harry was a horcrux and when he was killed, the horcrux piece was destroyed

[@ked49]

And voldy didn’t spilt anymore

[@JustACactus616]

But Voldemort was already so damaged in Hallows that it wouldn’t really matter. And it’s still killing a soul- whether it’s part of one or all of one. And not all Avada Kedavras have soul splitting involved- such as Wormtail killing Deadric

[@erikaczyn]

Since the basis for the "marauders map only shows marauders to other marauders" theory is that otherwise Harry or Fred and George would have seen Peter Pettigrew in the Gryffindor dormitory, I think that horcruxes can't show up on the map or else Fred and George would be wondering how a boy named Tom Riddle managed to get into the girls dormitory. Also, I think the ghosts can show up because they have full souls and horcruxes don't have enough soul to show up on the map. I think the same would be true of Diary Tom and Voldemort Prime as they don't have full souls either. Also, has the Bloody Baron shown up on the map? While we have no knowledge of him making a horcrux, he did kill Helena Ravenclaw which means his soul was damaged.

[@frankmaggiore3970]

I have always viewed the creation of the Marauder's Map as the magical equivalent to computer coding. The magic the drives it is at a student level but it would have taken an inordinate amount of time and effort to build it. Time only students with a strong (and devious) motivation could pull off. This would be like building a game map of the castle and then casting a spell on every pixel of the castle to identify the name of who is currently occupying that space at any point in time. Since the goal was to use the map to sneak around Hogwarts Filch, Peeves, Mrs. Norris, and ghosts were all needed to be programmed into the map, where other animals were not required. The Marauder's likely needed to build the map over a long period of time and needed multiple attempts to de-bug it. This is why a great wizard like Dumbledore couldn't just perform a spell to make it happen. It needed to be carefully crafted and worked on bit-by-bit until completion. So the Marauder's could be viewed as magical programmers with patience and drive to create the equivalent to a magical app. If they only could've gotten venture capital funding and a pitch meeting with Apple at the time.

[@BobBob-fm6oo]

I think a better question would be does Harry under the invisibility cloak show up on the map. Knowing that his cloak is the true perfect cloak of legend so I don't think that it could.

[@tribute_eagle6176]

Can't wait to watch love your videos ❤

[@johnmorton5889]

I think the room of hidden things generates stuff itself, because if you need to hide something, putting it in a giant empty room wouldn’t help very much

[@stefanpredl6849]

i think its the same room all lost stuff ends up

[@LuisDiaz-qg3eg]

I am fully expecting the answer for the Marauder's Map to be an infinitely customizable (and intuitive) User Interface with toggles for individual animals (default to just Norris) and toggles for individual entities (default to just Peeves).

[@LuisDiaz-qg3eg]

Multiple Muggle systems are involved enabling full-text-search for individual options, by injecting the data into, at least, intermediary systems including Elastic/OpenSearch, Metarank, Qdrant, and OpenAI, and the vector relations are stored in a Data Lake. Marauding is hard work

[@rainynight02]

A "what if" scenario, "What if Voldemort didn't give Lilly a choice? What if he just moved her out of the way and immobilized her and then killed Harry? Or if he just killed her without giving her the option I guess. Her being alive could drastically change certain things.

[@mrborgeusborg1541]

This might be a long one but I will try to keep it a little shorter. There is a theory that when you create a horcrux the soul is split 50-50. When you create a second horcrux the soul is again split 50-50. Therfor 1st horcrox is 50% soul, second is 25% soul and you have 25% left in your own body. For voldemort this goes on and on and on and on. If my math is correct, Harry has 0.5% of Tom Riddle in him. Compared to the diary that has 50%. How much % of a soul is a ghost? And how much % of a soul needs to be still in one place to show up on the Marauder's map? As long as it is above 50.000000001% to be shown on the map, and ghosts have above that number, Horcruxes will NOT show up on the map and ghosts still will. It would also explain why Tom is not with Harry, or why Tom is not with Quirrell. Question is: Is there any indication that Tom Riddle shows up on the map? As Voldemort? In book 7? I can't remember that detail.

[@madalynnr9940]

I think when it comes to Harry, Quirell and Nagini he would not show up because all those horcruxes/entities were post his fall when he described himself as "less than the meanest of ghosts" meaning too small to show up on the map. Or they do for Quirell and thats why Fred and George were pitching snowballs at his head.

[@robertdavis5693]

Harry's Horcrux was created while Voldemort was whole. (Well, as whole as he could have been having created all but possibly Nagini's horcrux by then.) Not post fall. Quirrel? Yes, for certain. Nagini? Not sure. Because Nagini was one of the canonical 7. (Voldy's plan to create 7 horcruxes.) While, iirc, Dubledore says that harry was the horcrux that voldemort never intended to make. I believe he was intending to make one using the soul of the 'boy who lived.' As a sign of ultimate triumph over the prophecy. (One of those rare times that Dumbledore was wrong, though it was Dumbledore in the King's Cross purgatory.)

[@madalynnr9940]

@@robertdavis5693 the curse rebounded and then created Harrys horcrux making it post fall due to the unstable nature of the soul lining up with his soul being less than a ghost at that moment Nagini was created after his rebirth

[@Soph1aF]

That's a cool theory.

[@robertdavis5693]

@@madalynnr9940 Yes, but she's never said publicly HOW a horcrux is created. If it anything more involved than just some random occurrence, then he had to have prepped to make one before entering the house. That's the reasoning for my theory that he meant to make one out of Harry. He never considered that a mother's love could protect her child from anything. Even him.

[@madalynnr9940]

@@robertdavis5693 Whether or not a horcrux was preplanned prior to going to kill Harry doesn't really have any bearing on whether there would be enough of him to show up on the Marauders Map. What matters is that he was so spread thin by that point that there wouldn't be enough of him to be registered by the map therefore making the piece of soul in Harry, Quirell and Nagini too small to be registered by the map because he described himself as less than a ghost at that point and would therefore be less than a ghost from that point forward. The real interesting question would be if Voldemort showed up on the map during the Battle of Hogwarts.

[@redbeard5939]

Would Pettigrew show up as Peter Pettigrew or as Sabbers? How does the Map know people's names? Is the Map a subtle hint that a form of true name magic exists in the HP universe? If so, does the constant use of an alternative name have the potential to change one's true name (Peter Pettigrew to Scabbers for example)?

[@kangalotto]

Peter Pettigrew. Given names. But only the marauders can see each other on the map. Yes I know Harry sees him in the movie, but thats just wrong

[@OfficialSoraOkami]

@@kangalotto Wouldn't Harry still be able to see him given he is a descendant of a Marauder

[@mjpete27]

Hullo Ben, Always an interesting take on the stories that you all have on tap! I do enjoy your content so much, Thanks!

[@pratodeossos]

Hey brothers! I have a question. Why didn't Voldemort prime, while living inside Quirrell, open the Chamber of Secrets? Couldn't he use the basilisc (and the chaos) to his advantage while trying to get the Philosopher's Stone?

[@grec.]

Personally, i don't think the Horcruxes would appear in the Marauders Map, simply because they are hidden (emphasis in the word HIDDEN) within the object, plus the soul is fragmented, plus those fragments have a primarily recipient who is Voldemort. I think the recipient of the Horcrux is as important as the fragmented soul, because in order to destroy the Horcrux, the recipient has to be destroyed beyond repair. So i think the object acts as an impenetrable shield to the piece of soul, thus making it very unlikely to be visible in the Marauders Map. Let's remember how Hermione cast the Homeniun Revelio at Grimmold Place, and the Horcrux didn't reveal Voldemort's soul. So again, in my opinion, 🤔 the soul in each Horcrux recipient is sealed by the object itself. So again, it would not make any Horcrux visible nor in the M.M. or with any enchantment aimed at revealing human presence. Dumbledore was able to find them because of the traces the dark magic Voldemort used, left, and Albus was skilled enough to sense it. But not because you could find it using those types of magic (revealing charms, etc). Because Harry's piece of soul didn't appear in the Map and neither did Nagini's, only her own soul. 🤔

[@boilerfan18]

Maybe the map only shows being the owner needs it to show. Filch and Mrs. Norris are on the lookout for rule breakers so of course they would show up. House elves and pets won’t care if a student is someplace they’re not supposed to be so it’s not important to know where in the castle they are.

[@FPL_Gaines]

Well deserved 11/13 for Ben's impression of Dobby!

[@atlashollows7512]

The best part of this video is the captioner interacting with the clusterflock joke lol

[@eliotoole4534]

1:46 I think it requires a name to show up

[@papel_pe]

I want to believe it shows anything that has been named... But if Hagrid starts naming all the spiders and ants they all starts showing up.

[@bram.desmet8687]

3:17: Mrs Norris on the map seems to suggest that she, like Nagini, was once human. But a poltergeist looks like a more realistic explanation. Both also explain how she can be so old as a cat.

[@Oaklee-mi1mq]

Questions: 1. what if harry accepted a friendship with Malfoy? 2. What if Relgulus black was actually still alive?

[@CesarACastillo]

Without watching the video. I don’t think so. James and his friends were more than likely unaware of what a Horcrux is. As such they wouldn’t consider including it as a findable subject for their map. Although it would be interesting to see how Fred and George would react to seeing Voldemort’s true name on the map every time they used it. Then again the Room of Requirement was unmappable.

[@sydneyhobbs9817]

Gred&Forge: “Oi, who’s this Tom Riddle fellow in Ginny’s room every night?”

[@MonkeyGein]

But what if… Mrs. Norris is a maledictus?! Not only that, but what if SHE is the actual caretaker!? It would still support Filch as a poltergeist and their weird connection.

[@maxstone3779]

Could the map have a filter? The trio don't know how to activate it, but the Marauders do.

[@juanmanuelpalomeraregalado903]

Feels weird to me that the marauders map, which is a map enchanted by schoolers shows harry when he is using the invisibility cloak, a deathly hallow. Like, the spell is stronger than the magic of the death? Or the death is not powerful enough to be revealed by a spell casted by schoolers and teenagers?

[@elijahlacroix9741]

What if a person who was subject to the dementors kiss was turned into a horcrux? Would they just be an empty vessel with a piece of a soul, or would the soul take control of the body like Tom riddle’s possession of Ginny?

[@JuliusVernum]

If someone put a fidelius charm on the unforgivable curses and the secret keeper told no one, would that stop them from being used?

[@GamingWolfGod]

Personally I'd say the Marauders, as has been noted before, were just extremely talented wizards. There's a high probability they modified the original spell, or made new ones, to track extra things. IE instead of ghosts still being people they modified the spell to include more targets to track. Like they attached the charm to the facility, which would include Ms. Norris. Peeves is a part of the castle so he's a given. Basically anyone that could be considered a threat AND could roam around would've been taken into account. This would explain why House Elves and Portraits are included. Portraits are somewhat stationary and thus can be avoided. House Elves are both considered lesser AND are very subservient and thus less likely to tattle on people. Stuff like animals aren't going to be included unless the animal is important to the Marauder. Fawkes kinda just stays in Dumbdoors office. Horcrux's are so unlikely to be an issue they either weren't included purposefully or weren't even known about at creation.

[@robertdavis5693]

Horcruxes wouldn't show up, because otherwise Harry would have seen Tom RIddle's name next to his every time he looked at the map. Harry was a Horcrux the entire time he was at school as a student. Up until that moment in the forest.

[@TheGarrettPM]

The Filtch as a poltergeist always in my head canon. I love you guys went into it

[@thekueken]

Fred ang George are the coolest most supportive brothers. Never judged Ron for sleeping with another guy nor ratting Ginny out for sneaking a boy into her dorm room either, or how she apparently literally dumped him in a girl's restroom toilet stall.

[@Caffeinated_Firefly]

I think that the Marauders created an special exception for the caretaker's cat. How? idk, magic

[@TommyTombstone]

I'm so happy about the first clip of the video. As soon as I saw the title, my brain said "THE MAP NEVER LIES!"

[@p.s.8171]

I like the idea, that the map recognizes personalities that had been named. It's probably not the most solid theory, but it's a nice one. The name is a kind of container for your personality. And the map recognizes such personalities and their names and displays those names of the currently dominant personality. That would disqualify horcrucses, half personalities like Voldemort in Quirrel, ants and spiders or the basilisk (since "Slytherin's monster" is more like a description and his personality is questionable), but not ghosts or animals with strong personalities. That would also explain Peter Pettigrew until book 3, because he's more Scabbers than Peter in book 1, 2 and part of 3. As he's more and more often brought up, mentioned, remembered, and hears his human name and Sirius' name which is linked to him, the personality awakens and the map switches his name.

[@Patrick-qz6tn]

I think considering the makers of the Marauder's Map and their intentions likely gives us an insight into the design/function of the map. I don't think they would have weighing souls in mind when making the map. The Marauders were mischievous and that was the intention of the map. I think it's likely that they made the map to show the layout of the castle & grounds and all beings present who are capable of getting them in trouble, and display it in a way that the marauders understand. I think this implies two aspects relevant to the video: 1) Names are used to represent people, and these are not nicknames or titles the person prefers, the names displayed are their generally most accepted names that avoids confusion by including first and last names when applicable. -Harry is a horcrux but because the form that Voldemort and Harry share is regarded by most people as "Harry Potter" the map displays "Harry Potter". Although Quirrell likely refers to his shared form as "Dark Lord" or "Lord Voldemort", Quirrell would be more widely referred to as "Quirinus Quirrell" or "Quirrell" for most of the time the being of Quirrell has existed. Nobody calls Nagini, the diadem, or the cup "Voldemort" so they would not be displayed as that on the map, but maybe the diary appeared as "Tom Riddle" or "Tom Riddle's Diary". Peter Pettigrew was mostly regarded as Peter Pettigrew for most of his life, so did not display as "Scabbers". 2) The capacity to get someone in trouble requires ability to impose a punishment, or to report to an authority who could impose a punishment. -punishment or enforcement of rules or reporting to an authority seems to require an ability for moral judgement, which likely requires at least a minor understanding of human/Hogwarts/wizarding society. So I believe this adds a requirement that names displayed must represent beings with a minimum intellect or understanding of language/systems. -Mrs. Norris is a particularly smart cat who understands rules enough to report to Filch and appears on the map, Aragog speaks English and seems smart enough to appear on the map, while Crookshanks and the owls are not shown to have this capacity. They may act in defense of people they care for or attack threats, but I don't believe that implies the kind of understanding required. The basilisk comes when it is called and understands parseltongue, but like a dog or owl following commands, it may not have the wider understanding required to make a judgement.

[@euanberesford9974]

Great video and looking forward to the next chapter of through the griffin door on Sunday

[@ShannonHarkin]

If you want to experience the same feeling of reading Harry Potter for the first time, you should check out the Nevermoor series by Jessica Townsend. 3 books are out with the 4th coming. I want SuperCarlin theories on this series!

[@PowerStar004]

Did the curse target Barty Crouch Jr. rather than Moody since Barty was the one actually teaching the class?

[@charleswaldon8362]

If it would, wouldn't Harry have duel scrolls with Voldemort.. like right on his back always?

[@liquidformat]

Its a pretty easy question to answer as their were three horcruxes in Hogswart and none of them showed up on the Map so no no they can't.

[@donaldhanning1359]

Unless the chamber is hidden magically, wouldn't the twins have thought to use it to find Ginny when she was taken?

[@linus1834]

I always wondered if Voldemort could have multiplied himself by turning someone who got kissed by a dementor into a horcrux

[@obiwanpez]

I think of the map like a student programming project. They probably iterated all sorts of incorrect / unhelpful maps and altered the spells, as needed. “Oh, we definitely need Peeves on there” “okay, add all poltergeists…” “wait, why is Filch on there…” «shocked stares all around»

[@seankiesser6356]

Horcrux can't show on the Map, otherwise Harry would have seen Tom Riddle overlapping his own tag at all times from the start.

[@francislachapelle123]

I'm surprised you didn't badly use AI like your other thumbnails this time

[@ToaCody1]

My assertion is that the Map can and will show any entity within Hogwarts that could potentially interfere with rule-breaking. How entities who are disguised or similar are displayed is dependent upon the perception of whomever opened the Map.

[@rickershomesteadahobbyfarm3291]

Now I’m wondering why some animals showed up and others weren’t mentioned. 🤔🧐. Maybe the animal needs a name before it can show up on a map.

[@Ollie.H-23]

With this video, the Harry Potter video playlist has now gone up to 394 videos

[@TheTrekkie42]

Since Horcruxes are only part of people, they show up as only part of a name. Same with the maker. Voldemort would just be Vo on the map.

[@rebeccashaver8518]

When you first brought this up on Through the Giffindoor I started thinking and my conclusion was things that would show up on the map would have to fit into any of these things: 1. It has to be plottable 2. The marauders would have had to know about it/where it is (so no RoR or CoS) 3. It would have threatened any mischief-making, for example, Peives, Mr. Filch, teachers, other students, etc. That was probably a bit confusing, sorry.

[@katejones8705]

Some horcruxes might show up on the map, but not all of them. I feel like it comes down to the spell's definition of a 'person' - there has to be enough soul/life/sentience there to qualify. The diadem wouldn't qualify (just being a soul fragment) but the diary might once it had become strong enough - having a sliver of soul isn't enough to be a 'person', but if it absorbed enough lifeforce that it could manifest like the diary, that might be enough for the map to see it.

[@adamrabe3105]

I am just imagining the process that the Marauders went through to get the whole castle mapped. Having Peter aka Wormbutt get into all those tough to reach places. More helpful than your common rat.

[@XDeserak]

There's a much more simple way to define what shows up on the map. Self-identity. If they're capable of thinking "This is my name" then that name shows on the map. If they can't, they won't show up. Ghosts are that identity imprinted on the world, so they show up. Most animals even unusually smart ones don't think about identity that way - they hear their name and just think "that's the sound the humans make when they mean me." House elves stay hidden because house elves, they blend into the background too much for human magic to notice them. So it would depend if the horcrux in question is capable of having identity or not - the diary along with the influence on people around them suggest they do retain Voldemort's sense of identity unless suppressed by another living mind.

[@lunawolf1153]

Fred and George look over some pretty shady stuff on the map. Ron spending an awful lot of time with this Pettigrew person, always in his room and his bed, and also potentially a certain Tom Riddle hanging with their sister a lot, especially considering how protective they can be of Ginny

[@tarotreadingsbysteven8545]

I've always thought it was based on feet on the ground since the animals are depicted with paws corresponding to their real life foot shape in the movies. I also think it filters things out for the maps viewers. Since Harry was using it it would show him only animals and beings he might be interested in like knowing Hedwig's location or knowing how to avoid Mrs. Norris and Filtch while sneaking around