Superman II (1980) Retrospective/Review - Superman Movie Retrospective, Part 2

[@RowanJColeman]

HELP THE CHANNEL GROW: www.patreon.com/rowanjcoleman

[@SB992REBORN]

do iii WHICH IS PERFECT AST THE FIRST TWO then SKIP PLEASE to Returns and then talk about his role in Crisis!!!!! Everyinternnet has talked about quest for peace and its not entirely necessary for a or this retrospective series. A SEPARATE VIDEO ON ITS OWN WOULD DO THE TRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;

[@derks0]

oh look a franchise that changes what is and isnt canon 😏 image that

[@razieltalos]

Terrence Stamp seems like just a delight to be around, its always the nicest people that make the best villains.

[@KnightofDuroch]

The mess behind the scenes is such a tragedy, and it's hard not to look at SUPERMAN II now and not see a broken movie that could've been so much more. Even if the conflict between Donner and the producers was bound to reach a breaking point, it sure seems like the costs of firing Donner far outweighed the benefits.

[@SiriuslyBlack7]

That's probably how we ended up with the cellophane throwaway House of El logo that Superman could throw off of his chest at the end of the movie.

[@KnightofDuroch]

@@SiriuslyBlack7 Yeah, that's definitely a case of "this scene's done, but we're not at 50% Lester yet". The Donner Cut version actually reminds me a lot of The Dark Knight, where the explosive action climax is followed by a big dramatic stand-off, no more wacky SFX needed.

[@SiriuslyBlack7]

@fabooshness KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!

[@sandal_thong8631]

I think not paying Brando for Superman II is more detrimental to the film than the loss of Donner, after having seen the cuts and read the 1977 script. His first scene replaced by his mother was essentially the same, except Brando gives Lois the stink-eye, which is surprising and scares Lois, because previously there was no indication he could tell Luthor or Lois were there. Had they shown his other scene where he gives back Superman's powers at the cost of his own "life", that would have been something to talk about; a real father & son and be your own man theme.

[@aldunlop4622]

It’s almost hard to believe these movies got made with all the bullshit going on.

[@OldManTheseDays]

I always interpreted all the weird powers in the final scene as being the effect of the fortress of solitude, not so much the actual powers of Superman.

[@sinjin90ful]

interesting thought

[@sandal_thong8631]

It wasn't in the 1977 script. Once they break-in the fight is over.

[@Neil070]

I used to think like that, but then I realised I was working too hard. I was trying to make ridiculous scenes fit with the Superman Canon. That's just making excuses for the director's bizarre choices. OK, we are watching the story of an alien with extraordinary powers, but there is a limit to how far we can suspend disbelief, even in a superhero movie. Lester didn't know about Superman and didn't really care, giving him random abilities which Lester presumably thought "looked cool". One scene that people criticise is the "memory wiping" kiss. The kiss isn't the power. The 60's Superman had "super-hypnotism" abilities, and may have erased Lois' or Lana's memory of his secret identity in the comics. I seem to remember this happening, but I could be wrong. One comic book story had him being able to project tiny "Superman clones", though they were not described as clones, from his fingertips. This is very like the polythene "S" motifs he throws at Non. As with the movie scene, the original comic book story was, and is, widely derided, making Kal-El look like a cheap Zatara or Dr. Strange. Superman's abilities are extensions of "normal" human abilities. Not magic. He is stronger, faster, more resistant to harm, and his senses are enhanced to the max, with "XRay" vision being more like the ability of certain Earth species to see ultraviolet and infra red frequencies of light, which are invisible to non Kryptonians. This is the appeal of Superman. He is you or I, but to the max.

[@Knight121198]

the "Teleporting" is actually superspeed seen from the humans perspective, but Superman was so fast he made solid after images which confused the three villans, at least in my headcanon.

[@adamjenson9369]

@@Neil070 You might have a point if this was a book and not a film where show don't tell is usually optimal to exposition. However, the film is very consistent with the fortress powers only happening in the fortress so there isn't a contradiction. One might say that since people didn't infer it that way the writers could have done a better job, but the fortress powers are more logical, and MUCH less story breaking, within the world then Superman's time reversal powers in the first film. Time control is a major plot hole in an otherwise excellent movie because you now have to explain why Superman doesn't reverse time every time something really bad happens which either makes him a bad hero for not saving people when it would be easy to do so or a very selfish person for only using time reversal when it's someone he really cares about.

[@michaellewis1545]

The hero having to chose between love and duty is one of favorite story lines. For the simple fact that even at it's most contrive it still requires a real sacrifice by the hero to resolve the issue.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Also to destroy the AI or imprint of his father was touching in _The Donner Cut._

[@thereisnospoon277]

Mr. Colemam, I believe your retrospective of "Superman, Part II", was spot on. I enjoyed this movie when it came out, but always knew it was never as good as the first one. As an example: I don't think Clark Kent/Superman should ever have forced Lois Lane to forget their special relationship, but allow her to deal with the loss of it on her own terms.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Lois is supposed to be an intrepid reporter but goes nuts because she knows Superman is in the office as Clark Kent? Yeah, pretty much done with her after that. The best of _Superman III_ was his interactions with his high school crush, Lana Lang.

[@1977TA]

8:17 Omg Terence Stamp became General Zod not just in character but in real life. The way he got Sarah and Jack trained to follow his lead on screen was the work of a true leader. The story he tells about how he got Jack's attention when no one else was willing to yell at him had me completely captivated. His background as a stage theatre actor can be seen and it is something that modern actors lack as many of them get into the business straight out of acting school by simply getting an agent and auditioning for roles and doing television commercials. Cutting your acting chops in front of a live audience is the best way to become a true performer. It's a tragedy that this crucial part of becoming an actor is a dying art.

[@papabear562]

Thank you for including the Donner cut in this video. It is also my preferred version of Superman II, and commentaries one can find online, and in KZbin, about Donner making it, are well produced. I love it if you could do that as well. Thanks for another great video, keep up the great work!

[@PungiFungi]

@WoodCraft Kits the only thing worth seeing in the Donner cut is the Brando scenes. That is it. Presumably the scene where Jor El restored Superman's powers is only suggested or implied offscreen in the theatrical version, so it made Superman's return to confront the villains in Metropolis more dramatic. I remember the audience in the theater was clapping and cheering. I think that reaction would've been a bit diluted if that scene was reinstated.

[@RighteousBrother]

I still mourn the loss of John Barry. Just look at his work on Star Wars and Superman. The Death Star set and Krypton still look amazing to this day who knows what he would have gone onto

[@jamesgoss1860]

All things considered, Lester, the Newmans and the Salkinds pulled off a minor miracle. Despite having to rewrite half the script, Brando out, having to work around Hackman's footage since he wouldn't return for reshoots, they still turned in a solid, albeit uneven, movie. It wasn't widely known for several years that there was any production turmoil, to the point where Siskel & Ebert praised Lester for bringing out a better performance out of Hackman.... hm, nope.

[@bigredjanie]

Among many things, there's a funny parallel between what the situation with Gene Hackman and Zack Snyder's cut of Justice League: JK Simmons similarly didn't return as Gordon for Joss Whedon's reshoots, so when watching the theatrical cut you can pick out the shots Snyder filmed.

[@sandal_thong8631]

I don't think they rewrote half the script. Just the part about the atom bomb on the Eiffel Tower to explain the villain's escape. Losing Brando in his two scenes were more detrimental than other scenes that were added or subtracted due to Lester replacing Donner from what I saw and read.

[@bigredjanie]

@@sandal_thong8631 They did have to rewrite the ending, since the original idea was brought up to the first film.

[@sandal_thong8631]

@@bigredjanie I think that kiss was done before he left, but no matter. I like to imagine that after Jimmy found out his secret identity in _Supergirl_ Clark gives Jimmy a big ol' smooch.

[@robertrinn8252]

@@sandal_thong8631 no it wasn't. Easiest way to tell Donner and Lester scenes apart is Margot Kidders hair. Long and straight was donner, shorter with the bottom curling was Lester. Also the diner scenes were also Richard Donner as he actually appears in the first scene, and they filmed scenes from all sets together. So the kiss scene was Lester, however it was based on a power that had been in the comics tied to super hypnosis. So that one was actually not out of place for the character or Lester's style.

[@FrancisXLord]

I never get tired of the story behind Superman II, probably because the story is brimming with conflict. Personally, having grown up with the Lester version, I cannot even imagine that I would have enjoyed the Donner cut as much as a child. If Donner did get to finish this though then there was a good chance he would have made Superman III (which undeniably would have been better than the Superman III we got).

[@sandal_thong8631]

The part I did like was that his high school crush now liked him as Clark, as opposed to Lois who hero-worshipped Superman. I do think there was opportunity for another supervillain like Brainiac or Bizarro. We saw Supergirl deal with a magic-user, so....

[@Morgil27]

I love the later Donner Cut of 2, but I do wish he had similarly edited the ending of 1 to flow better with the new cut of 2.

[@papabear562]

Agreed. I've always wondered how the third act in Superman the Movie would have played out with Lois and the car falling into the crack in the earth scene, the dam, etc.

[@Thunderwing88]

@@papabear562 I think the rental would have just died on her and she wouldn’t have been in any danger. If I remember the commentary correctly.

[@sandal_thong8631]

When they made the decision to push for the release of _Superman I_ they changed the ending, and that was Donner's decision to turn back time and not leave it on a cliffhanger with the villains being freed. So maybe it wouldn't be as dramatic and emotional with Lois surviving, or being saved at the last second.

[@jamesabernethy7896]

I have been following your channel for a while. It's great to see you continue following movie series' following your epic coverage of Star Trek. Very smoothly written, well-structured and full of the most important aspects at every stage of the filming process.

[@hawkiowan]

Hear! Hear!

[@nigelmurphy6761]

Amen!

[@StuartQuinn]

Great to see some of those interviews from the invading Kryptonians. It's so tempting to fill up anything about Superman II with all the behind the scenes conflict, but that's often at the cost of these more traditional glimpses at how the film was made. I've seen a fair few Superman movie docs in my time, but never seen those interviews before, so thank you!

[@fstanley2328]

Good catch on the music sounding weaker than the first film. That’s something I always noticed as well. A big reason is that the first film’s soundtrack was played by the London Symphony Orchestra which is arguably the finest orchestra on the planet. Meanwhile, Superman II’s soundtrack was recorded by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra which, while a very fine group of musicians, simply isn’t the LSO. Just like Ken Thorne simply isn’t John Williams. I have no idea whether not using the LSO in II was related to Williams not returning, or if there was a scheduling conflict or some other unrelated reason.

[@gideonsiete1868]

Less money than LSO?

[@sandal_thong8631]

"John Williams [is dead]? Now we got to finish this thing with Danny Elfman" -Family Guy Star Wars.

[@Neil070]

I have the Donner Cut and it's far superior. Not knocking Lester, but you can't replace a director mid production with one who has a completely different style and vision. This is what happened with Snyder and Whedon. One would have thought WB would have learned from Superman II, but execs seem to think 'just hire another director, whoever is available, it doesn't matter'. The 'new' powers are very unsettling, looking more like magic than Superman. Though the 'teleportation' was, I thought, just them moving too fast for the human eye. There was a remark about 'we used to play this' that jarred. When did any of them play with other super powered children? The 'amnesia kiss' is something from the comics. Super-hypnotism. It's from the 'Silver Age', late 50's and 60's. Retconned out in the 70's. Yes, I'm that vintage, and that much of a nerd 🤓

[@sandal_thong8631]

I read blowing New Yorkers and the battle in the Fortress of Solitude weren't in the script until Lester took over. The real loss was losing Brando's scenes which make a real father-son connection and explained how he got his powers back. Clark had spent years of re-education by Jor-el, so that he still came back to him for advice, and did what he was told, without consulting Lois. I would have preferred he had given her a crystal to make her forget that Clark was Superman. There was something not in the movies and that was Jimmy Olsen being Superman's Pal. He's Clark's pal, but you don't see him with Superman very much. So, after Jimmy found out his identity, did he kiss him, too?

[@LeandroLima81]

81 baby here. Thank you for this!

[@DamonCzanik]

They did Donner dirty. Glad he got to do his Donner Cut, though I dislike seeing the time travel trick almost as much as the amnesia kiss. Everything that made me love this movie exists in the Donner Cut. The sillier stuff is all Lester. I'm amazed that Superman II is as good and coherent as it is. Credit to Lester, he managed to turn it into an enjoyable and profitable movie despite all the hardships.

[@Delekhan]

Great vid! As always man... keep 'em coming when you can! We love ya!

[@zackpuckett8267]

I forgive the Donner Cut for reusing the ending of the first film. It makes sense that after pushing himself to do it once, he'd be able to tap into that again. Plus, it wasn't just so Lois would forget that he's Superman, think of how many countless innocent people died while Zod took over, and it's technically Superman's fault for letting him out of the phantom zone. Also I think asking the question, "Does that mean he can do this all the time? Doesn't that make him too powerful?", is missing the point of the character. Yes, Superman is insanely powerful. And he should be. The point is that he can, and will, do anything to save us. Even if that means pulling out some wonky power every once in a while. Because it's not about what powers he has, he's basically a god anyways. It's how he uses those powers that makes him interesting. Another reason they used this ending was because it was the ending they originally intended for Superman 2 in the first place. They never got to film a new ending once they moved the ending of 2 to 1. Better than using the magic kiss.

[@sandal_thong8631]

I think there was a line saying the villains pretty much destroyed the Earth and that was the reason to turn back time. But if he could do it, then he wouldn't even need to fight them, would he? Not a good plot point for either movie. Of course if he had kept the original ending in 1 then they wouldn't have needed a nuclear weapon on the Eifel Tower at the start of 2.

[@zackpuckett8267]

@@sandal_thong8631 The villains probably would have stopped him from turning back time. They're just as fast as him, so catching him before he starts the rewind wouldn't be a problem for them.

[@Thunderwing88]

We need the “director’s cut” of 1 to go with it.

[@zackpuckett8267]

@@Thunderwing88 Donner's Special Edition of 1 flows very nicely into his version of 2

[@sandal_thong8631]

@@Thunderwing88 They changed the ending so much for release that I can't imagine what it would have been like without him turning back time.

[@edibleapeman]

It's cruel to post these pre-premiere videos. I see it in my feed and I'm like "ooooh new RJC video" only to be forced to sit and wait. CRUEL, sir!!

[@stankythecat6735]

I hate it also … I don’t understand the point of waiting for a week

[@hawkiowan]

Just like the creators of the shows he covers, Rowan is creating buzz, and I have enjoyed looking forward to seeing this video all week! And it didn't disappoint

[@edibleapeman]

@@hawkiowan Oh hell yes. I was only complaining in a positive way! This channel kicks serious ass.

[@Frank-Einstein-Madman]

Hey Rowan, I'm a fan from Down Under, I look forward to hearing more about... “Lex Luthor, ruler of Australia…”

[@HandofOmega]

Superman was rereleased this week at my local theater, so it was a blast seeing it up on the big screen, which I hadn't done since I was a kid when it first came out! Maybe it seeing so large, or just because I hadn't sat and watched it all the way through in a while, but I noticed a LOT more details that I don't recall ever seeing before...In particular, the miniature work, esp in the flooding valley sequence, are esp noticeable (reminds me of that MST3K joke, "Special effects by Billy!"), and there are def shots where a "flying action figure" are used! Still, it was a great show, and I highly recommend checking it out on the big screen if you can!

[@thcdreams654]

More great content, always enjoy your work. These retrospectives are awesome. Thanks.

[@andygrams6344]

I grew up watching our vhs recorded copy of the extended ABC Sunday Night Movie cut (example: Superman flying by the Concorde) and as a kid I just loved all the fun stuff crammed into that movie and the countless quotable lines. Fun fact - as background music they use Average White Band “Pick Up the Pieces” for the bar scene with Ursa “Let’s just hold hands” and at the end of the movie when Clark goes to the bar “never seen garbage eat garbage before” Ken Thorne composed a slower “lounge” style of the same song that makes the whole sequence even funnier.

[@BSted-lm3mx]

Great job on these videos. Really enjoying!

[@studiomiguel]

Fantastic !Love these retrospectives! And am THRILLED to learn about the new cuts of these films.

[@Bam123412]

Love it. Never seen that interview with Stamp before. What the Salkinds did to RD was an outrage!

[@sandal_thong8631]

I didn't know. He precipitated it by airing dirty laundry publicly or "talking out of school" as they say. I'd only heard his side, and didn't know the other. Also, the loss of Brando's two scenes hurt the film more than differences, additions and subtractions by Lester.

[@aaronp6476]

Can't wait for this! Absolutely loving your content, mate!

[@nebularain3338]

IMO Superman 1 had the stronger first half, but Superman II had one of the best third acts of any film in this genre. I prefer Superman II to the first one as I feel it's just a more even film overall, and while I appreciate the Donner cut as a "what if", the roughness of it just makes it feel like what it is - an assembly cut. I also prefer the performances in the theatrical version, so i'll always go with that.

[@integrity101]

The Donner cut is every bit as finished as the Lester cut.

[@sandal_thong8631]

I think they'd have to do animated shots or storyboards to give us the true flavor and scope of his intended movie.

[@integrity101]

@@sandal_thong8631 No. The necessary Lester additional photography is basically what he wanted just cheaper so we basically know what it would've been.

[@johncap6495]

I agree some of the Donor scenes mixed in would make the movie even better. But the ending to me wasn't as good since it was the first one recycled. He kills the fortress of solitude for some reason. And there was no definitive ending to Zod. Could they possible come back or were they just gonna float around forever. Also Zods lines and performance seemed less icoinc

[@integrity101]

@@johncap6495 Watch some fan edits.

[@LongshanMusic]

There's less reverb in the second movie's recording, which makes the orchestra sound smaller.

[@vinson1445]

I have to go with Lester's theatrical cut. I watched both back to back recently, and to me, that version lines up better with Superman: The Movie which had its own share of silly moments. I like Richard Donner, but as someone else said in the comments, maybe his 1980 version would have been superior but not his 2006 version.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Yeah, there is a difference in looking at the '70s phone and laughing, and someone who won't hang up the phone and being blown away by super breath.

[@bflaminio]

The best version of Superman II is neither Lester's nor Donner's cut, but rather fan-edits that integrate the best of both Donner's and Lester's work. The studio could never release such a "collaboration" but with the availability of high quality digital copies of both films, modern editing software, and the skill of the fan-editor, such projects can be realized.

[@sandal_thong8631]

I don't know the Superman II script before it was re-written for Lester, but maybe they could have put a cut together with the original's storyboards or animation. From that line that General Zod had pretty much destroyed the Earth, I gather it was supposed to be darker than them blowing some New Yorkers.

[@Derpy1969]

The orchestra was thinner. Ken Thorne was literally told NOT to write any new themes and to ONLY arrange the original to fit the sequel. These details are outlined in the 4 CD SET of the Superman score for all four films and even the cartoon TV series. It’s on my shelf.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Sad.

[@BronzeAgeBryon]

Yet another epic installment Rowan. I was 10 when I saw this film at the Midtown Theater with some neighborhood friends. It was the first film I saw with friends rather than going with my Dad. Later I would realize that had upset him as we both loved DC Comics. The polished film cut is better than the Donner Cut, mainly due to those effects. Yikes. It may have been better if Donner was able to edit both films into one long feature so as not to repeat the time reversal which was planned for the end of Superman 2 anyway. The additional powers he exhibits, while most likely dropped in by Lester and Co. I have just accepted as things he can only do while in his Fortress of Solitude. Can't wait to see your take on Superman III, a flawed installment for sure.

[@AndyG13GLA]

This review from Rowan pretty much sums up my feelings for both S1 & S2. I loved the second movie for a long while, but in time it’s S1 the movie that truly is the superior film. However watching them together is how these should be viewed for the best experience.

[@GabrielAlvarez1973]

The first one is better, but I guess this one (The Lester version) is my favorite.

[@DavianSinner]

I make no apologies, I love the slapstick stuff in II. I don't take comics that seriously. I was brought up on silver and bronze age books and there were all kinds of goofy things in them, especially the Jimmy Olsen books which I love. I never cared much about continuity or logic. If it's works as entertainment, that's good enough for me. I saw the Donner cut and I have completely forgotten anything about it.

[@awesomedayz3465]

I love the fact that you respect the title of "General" every time you mention General Zod. Most people just call him Zod.

[@deadbeatdynamo]

I've always loved the guy being blown away in the phonebooth. Yes, it undercuts the tension, but where else are you going to get something like that?

[@scottbutler5]

A lot of people seem to really like The Donner Cut of Superman II, and I just don't see it. To me it just feels like a mish-mash mess of different parts that were never meant to fit together. With Lester shots being used to fill in the parts of the story Donner never filmed, it's just as discordant as the original Superman II, plus the added disjointedness of cutting in unfinished shots and screen tests, which stick out in particular as coming from a different version of the movie entirely. Maybe a Donner version made in 1980 would have been superior to Lester's version, there's no way to know at this point, but The Donner Cut from 2006 doesn't stand up to the completed movie any better than any other collection of deleted scenes in a DVD featurette.

[@sandal_thong8631]

They should have used animation based on storyboards to fill in the missing pieces. I'm not sure how much more epic or brilliant it would be. If they had turning back time, then why wouldn't they (meaning Donner) make up new powers for a fight scene?

[@jimmyl324]

Always enjoy your videos .

[@jgfear]

I’ve seen the “ Donner Cut “ . Eh yeah maybe in someways it’s better that “ Lester “, directed this one .

[@joeturkos6767]

As an 11 year-old boy I was obsessed with Superman II. I was supposed see it a second time but my friend, whose mother was paying, insisted that we see some movie called Raiders of the Lost Ark. Although I loved Superman II, I was somewhat confused by some of the film’s elements. At the time I didn’t realize that I wasn’t the only one. After seeing it many times over the years it is still one of my favorite movies. The Donner cut helped by filling in some gaps. Having the Internet then would have saved me from hours of pondering. Great video! Cheers!

[@sandal_thong8631]

They left out the scene where Jor-el gives his son back his powers. They replaced the first scene with his mother, but didn't replace the second.

[@ObiGommGaming]

I never had any clue of the behind the scenes turmoil until recently stumbling across the donner cut. It was very interesting to watch. Ultimately I prefer the original theatrical release simply because the donner cut has a copy and paste awful ending that undoes everything that happened

[@kevinedie4119]

Good God did Stamp not own that role. From the moment the cameras rolled he was amazing.

[@paulpolpiboon9535]

@7:30 + 8:00 wow THAT'S why they always seemed as one entity moving in balad of frightening unison! Man this is a great documentary

[@parkerpshebnisky1051]

Superman 2 is my fav superman movie!👍👍

[@timchorle]

I really find you an insightful and articulate film "explorer" - as you provide a very real sense of taking the viewer on a complete journey of the topics at hand.

[@Chris-B.]

Man, this is gonna be good...

[@sallgoodman2323]

Love it 🤣👍

[@masere]

I don't believe you!

[@GaryGoRound-to7ld]

even with all the behind the scenes drama Superman 2 is my fav...I was 10 when that movie came out and on Saturdays I would go down to the movie theater and buy a ticket...I would end up staying there all day watching it over and over...the theater staff would bring me free popcorn and soda ..it was great

[@personatodo]

The best kind of Superman 2 are the fanedits that combined both version but stick closer to Donner's vision.

[@TJdirect]

The behind the scenes drama, is almost worthy of movie itself LOL ! - a bit like " FEUD: Bette and Joan". about the behind the scene drama in the making of "what ever happened to baby Jane?" lol

[@Lallander]

I never knew there was a director's cut of Superman II. I'll have to check that out.

[@fstanley2328]

Much like the narrator, I probably preferred Superman II over the first film when I was a kid because of its raw action and because I thought the slapstick stuff was funny. Now though, as a full grown adult, I realize Superman: The Movie is the far superior film and I really wince at the jokes Lester decided to incorporate at moments of high tension, most notably in the Metropolis battle scene when the villains are blowing the angry mob away with their super breath, that totally detract from the story. This wasn’t like those silly ass Beatles films that Lester was famous for directing and throwing all those stupid gags in really degrade what should have been an epic film, into a merely entertaining one with some extremely obvious flaws. I can’t help but think how great it would have complemented the first film had Donner been brought back. Of course Lester showed his incompetence beyond any doubt with Superman III.

[@robertrinn8252]

@F Stanley I agree with you to a point, but not the scenes. Lester's take on middle America with some of the jokes he tried putting in those scenes was so cringe worthy that even growing up I knew they were bad. Lester is a great director and his take on Superman was not horrible, but his miscues stick out like a sore thumb. The issues with Superman III may in part fall on Lester but the Salkinds did him no favors by signing Richard Pryor and literally said "here, use him", what was Lester to do. I n a strange way, with what brought us to Superman III, Lester was more than likely the reason the good parts do work. He knew how to direct someone like Pryor and had the experience with Superman, And Donner would have never been there with Pryor for that so what other director at the time could have done it. As bad as 3 was, it could have been far worse, as the forth film proved.

[@PungiFungi]

I only like Superman I for the Krypton and Smallville scenes. The films should've been a trilogy with the first movie on Krpyton and Smallville while the second one focused on Lex Luthor and the third on the villains. I like Superman II far better because Lois was less of a damsel in distress and nobody can beat Ursa.

[@dazarro1379]

I’ve had to yell at Jack O’Halleran to get an autograph: “Jack you bastard get over here”!🤣

[@charlesrense5199]

I just wanted to say that this morning, well before you posted this video, I chose the first T-shirt I saw in my wardrobe to wear: a Superman logo shirt. I promptly forgot that's what I was wearing all day. And I didn't realize until after I finished the video 5gat that's what I was wearing. Well played.

[@boxcarhobo7017]

The third act showdown in the Fortress of Solitude always worked for me and my fellow Man of Steel comic book friends. We figured those powers he displayed could only work in the Fortress as it was like a living organism that allowed Supes to access powers and abilities normally not available to him, like talking to his deceased father and playing with power regeneration already. Plus, this was long before CGI and this was the most inventive special effects for an established super hero's power set and offering genuine surprises to hard core fans like my inner circle.

[@cjplay2]

Thank you for mentioning the Donner Cut.

[@shaggycan]

9:50 I can't even imagine someone getting into an argument with John Williams, the guy is so chill in any interview I've ever seen. Just shows how much of a shit show Lester was.

[@Koldeman]

From what I've read, JW was a lock & it was supposed to be an informal meet-n-greet. Something happened when the two were left alone to chat & Williams stormed out of the room saying "I cannot work with that man" and left the bldg. Only he & Lester knows what drove this improbable & shocking moment. By anyone's acct, JW is one of the most patient & understanding gentlemen in show business and this blow-out was COMPLETELY out of character. There's only one other time I'm aware of when JW angrily walked off & it was early on during his tenure as Music Dir. of the Boston Pops. Some of the older players chided all of the film music introduced into the orchestra's repertoire & it became a serious moment of contention & Williams had enough, leaving abruptly during a rehearsal. At least he returned & that situation was worked out; can't say so much for Supes 2.

[@cableroyson9992]

Keep it up, these are great!

[@atroyz]

Great video. As a kid I was unaware that this movie was a mashup of two different productions, but I always felt there was something a little bit off about it. I suppose the main thing I noticed was how completely different Lois Lane looked in some scenes. Margot Kidder looked about 10 years older in the scenes in the fortress of solitude, but then she looked younger again when Clark is attacked in the diner (and whenever Gene Hackman is in the scene).

[@philarmstrong3765]

It's kind of anazing any big movie ever gets made.

[@gingerone11]

I've never seen the Donner cut, but sadly I've seen Superman 3.

[@integrity101]

you've never seen the real two hour conclusion to Superman The Movie then..

[@nasalpolecat091]

Other than Superman the Movie.....who remembers the salkines...or whoever? RIP Richard Donner.

[@anthonymacewan1147]

I've always considered the "powers" he displayed in the Fortress of Solitude were just Kryptonian tech.

[@RighteousBrother]

Same!

[@sandal_thong8631]

They were added to the script after Lester took over, just like he added the villains blowing New Yorkers.

[@TevyaSmolka]

It’s really sad that Richard donner got screwed over by Warner bros.

[@TomGallagherSuperboyBeyond]

it was more the Salkinds than Warner Bros in this case

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@TomGallagherSuperboyBeyond yeah that's true and you're right about that

[@sandal_thong8631]

I didn't know he complained publicly and got fired for it, before watching these videos. I only heard his side before.

[@kamdan2011]

@@sandal_thong8631 Exactly why you shouldn’t only hear one side of an argument.

[@sandal_thong8631]

@@kamdan2011 Salkinds didn't talk much about the Donner situation as far as I could tell, and I can't find interviews with Lester about _Superman II._

[@georgeharris9873]

Because there were TWO Richards making their own versions of the film, ''SUPERMAN ''part 2 was a 2 part movie. The original Richard, Richard Donner, began making the first part of the film in 1977. When production stopped, the second half of the film was made in 1979 by the other Richard, Richard Lester. So the film is pretty much a 1977/79 film that was released in theatres inter-nationally in 1980 and the united states in1981.

[@fmsyntheses]

Nothing will ever match the original, but this movie does have a charm to it.

[@HandofOmega]

I like the restored scene with Jor-El, but...maybe it's nostalgia talking, but I think Lara just works better there, given the subject matter of the scene. I'm pretty sure this was the very first superhero movie that actually featured a battle between super powered people...and it's sooo well-done that it's not only plausible but STILL holds up decades later! I assume Supergirl will also be covered by this retrospective?

[@sandal_thong8631]

I found _Supergirl_ to be charming, better than III and IV.

[@paulkielty8385]

I always saw the 'teleportaion' as Superman's home projecting images of him, they same way his parents can be projected.

[@Malryth]

Another great video Mr. Coleman!! I felt the same way you did somewhat. I saw Superman II in the movie theatre over here in Canada back in 1980. I really enjoyed it back then but yeah the extra powers Superman had seemed rather silly. Now having the Donner cut on DVD (it came with the movie set I bought at a second hand place). I like the story better and it seems to jell with the 1st movie like they were supposed to be viewed back to back. Perhaps I'll try watching the original format movie to see how my adult eyes like it. I 100% agree with your comment about the tides changing after Superman III. I saw that one as well and well... I never went to see Superman IV...and still haven't to this day.

[@loremaster6828]

I havent seen the donner cut but I tried watching the lester version and I thought it was goofy as hell compared to the 1st superman

[@miguelbulcao9050]

Great work

[@Moochtv]

Yes! Can't wait for this and looking forward to your doc on Superman IV!

[@sandal_thong8631]

The less said, the better.

[@robertrinn8252]

@@sandal_thong8631 no, the more said the better, when you learn how Canon screwed over the making of Superman 4, you will be shocked! If the film was made as Christopher Reeve intended(sounds familer ahem Richard Donner cut ahem) it would have been massivly diffrent.....and better.

[@mattmorris5001]

Your videos are always great, thank you!

[@Gengh13]

What a production mess, it's a miracle we got a decent movie out of it.

[@faneditedbybooshman]

Wonderful stuff once again. I can't agree that the Donner Cut is superior, I think with the footage given another go with a proper budget it could be so much more but as it is it's not really a movie, more of a glorified special feature. The effects, editing, lack of footage for some scenes and ending, just such a wasted opportunity. So sad that films that were not successful have had bigger budgets for new versions and Superman 2 only got the bargain basement treatment.

[@sbi168]

Great video. Hope u do all superman movies

[@reginaldkelly4269]

You should do retrospective on all the batman movies and all the MCU movies and TV shows/specials

[@IAMPAUL2021]

I am still awaiting the Red Dwarf retrospective 😂

[@michaeljw3602]

Oooo cannot wait

[@janetwoodville3643]

When the Donner Cut came out, I bought it. The Donner Cut was the Best.

[@martinfinnpiano]

Very cool. Thanks

[@kaicanyonellis]

One of the tiny but important details folks always get wrong about this movie - part one and two weren't shot back to back. They were shot simultaneously.

[@odysseusrex5908]

Very much looking forward to part III.

[@WhoIsCalli]

Fantastic, can’t wait for Pt.3 ☺️

[@nickasaro8789]

This was my favorite of the Christopher Reeve Superman movies as a kid. Now, I think the 1st one is slightly better but I still have a soft spot for it.

[@robertrootes]

Great job. It feels a little rushed. But it was a great retrospective

[@sneakyking]

Ok now on April 1st do a cooperman retrospective

[@stvbrsn]

When were those interviews filmed? O’Halloran, Douglas and Stamp all look amazing.

[@shauncraigparkinson8165]

No film behind the scenes is perfect, still a great movie.

[@guaposneeze]

Anybody with even a passing interest should listen to the "How Did This Get Made" podcast's interview with Jack O'Halloran. They interviewed him for their episode about Superman III, even though he wasn't in that one. But it's a bonkers interview. Jack O'Halloran's dad was a hitman for the mob, and there were apparently some genuine threats of violence in the production of Superman II in order to make sure the producers were actually paying people. You could make a mafia movie about the making of Superman II that barely even touches on Superman.

[@Twisted-Atom-O5]

We need a stargate retrospective

[@michaeljw3602]

I do kind of agree..the 2nd one is weaker and the Donner cut is better but I also think trying to top the first was not the best thought.. the superman theme does feel less epic and will admit loved the 3rd act as a child but as an adult watching it now I do feel the approach was haphazard and the humour missed it's mark more often than. Terence stamp and Christopher reeve are the best things in this film without a doubt. Again fantastic video made . Loved it

[@matthewhearn9910]

I believe there are fan edits that take the more finished material of the theatrical cut to fill in the cracks in the Donner cut, including using primarily the theatrical ending. Seems like those would be the most cohesive with the original.

[@integrity101]

the fan edits are much better. I just watched a four hour one last night

[@John_Quinn_25]

8:51 😂😂😂😂 perfect

[@kcthesledgestoryteller]

Whenever I watch the Donner Cut, I always cut out just before the repeat time spin happens to finish with the less objectionable super-kiss

[@countroshculla]

I think I like Superman II better than I, because of the villains and what Supe has to do for his relationship. It just feels like a more emotional movie. But both the films are really good.

[@sandal_thong8631]

The first could have used a little more action in the form of 5 minutes or so of villains testing Superman's powers, like Luther's machine guns, except he doesn't do it.

[@grahamturner1290]

Superlative! 😊