Superman v. Captain Marvel: The Copyright Battle (1941-1954)

[@ferment4life]

This channel covers titles and subjects rarely, if ever, seen from other comics focused KZbinrs - a true gem that deserves more support!

[@toxichazard2k21]

That's probably why I love it so much! All the big channels are either covering the most recent comics or manbabies crying because comics don't agree with them. This channel single handedly made me appreciate the more obscure side of comics

[@TJRtheOriginal]

I think it's crazy that the original Captain Marvel can't be called "Captain Marvel" .....but I guess it's a kinda Karma that DC deserves since they started it all with baseless lawsuit to being with.

[@SmithMrCorona]

Anyone who wants to learn about comics, and for those wanting good recommendations should be watching this channel

[@cha5]

It’s interesting how much DC’s Superman borrowed from Fawcett’s Captain Marvel during the forties The power of flight: While Superman was still jumping like a grasshopper Captain Marvel was flying through the air, DC had Superman getting this power just a little later on. Captain Marvel Jr & Mary Marvel, Fawcett created a Marvel family with these characters, DC gave us something similar in the way of a “Superman family” especially with Superboy and Supergirl, ironically Supergirl was created in 1958 by the same writer who had created Mary Marvel back in 1942.

[@dfcsons]

And also, if you're taking requests: Claw the Unconquored, Mike Grell's Warlord, OMAC, Kamandi, The Demon, The Creeper, Blue Ribbon Digests, and that neat period post-implosion where DC featured separate 8 page stories in their more established titles of characters who's runs had been cancelled. Just throwin' it out there... :)

[@nlpnt]

Fawcett clearly considered Mechanix Illustrated to be their flagship publication, and once they started running "Uncle" Tom McCahill's new-car road tests in 1948 they finally had something to distinguish them from Popular Science and Popular Mechanics.

[@mattkilleen7174]

I know this has been debated to DEATH, but if I were DC, I would have the character rename himself as Captain Thunder, with a storyline explanation that he can't legally (for whatever) reason use the old name... and just get on with it. It's kind of silly the character had no name in the major motion picture. ... Keep making these great intelligent videos, by the way.

[@RothurThePaladin]

This has always been one of the more interesting events in comic book history to me.

[@Koopaklown]

Captain Marvel is my favorite hero under the DC name. Shame he couldn't get the 80 year special treatment like Batman and Superman.

[@youraveragecrownofthorns8919]

A very good point...it would have been great to see that.

[@brennanshane146]

Captain Marvel is my favorite super hero of all time. I hate how DC is continuing to mess up the character and his family

[@KonSimpl72]

Top-quality release once again. Here's hoping a Hellblazer video is in the horizon (not the non-Vertigo, neutered versions of course, only the OG).

[@unrulysimian3897]

Excellent (as always) synopsis. I loved the big red cheese in the wake of Crisis.

[@paulnash9851]

It's such a pleasure to wake up to one of your videos (I'm a UK resident). Best comics channel going. Have recommended subscribing to everyone I can think of. Keep it up, with quality like this, reward will come, maybe slowly, but it will come. Looking forward to what comes next !

[@muttjones222]

I always get a kick out of your videos. One of the best comic channels in my opinion. If you’re looking to do a similar video to this, you can try the whole Superman/Superboy debacle

[@BretAHart]

This is a fascinating look at comic book history. Love your channel.

[@youraveragecrownofthorns8919]

Absolutely amazing history, my man! Thanks as always.

[@TheSkaOreo]

Love your videos. Down to earth and greatly informative!

[@GeeVeeGM]

As usual, a great analysis of a complicated topic...keep it up!

[@cosmoissleeping]

Was DC Comics the original copyright squatter then?

[@carlospointofview]

Love it! Can you do one focused on the absorption of Charlton Comics into DC Comics and the BTS?

[@Kandhaqprotector]

Charlton comics was absorbed because it was struggling and went out of the business.

[@squirrel9407]

My dad was a kid in the 30s and remembered reading both titles. The weird thing is though is that he remembers a "Superman" being on the newstand where he helped out a few years before the actual character. I wondered if he read one of the pulps which had Siegel and Shuster's original idea for the "Reign of the Supermen/man" which I think was an evil scientist type of idea. Regardless, thanks for this channel, really enjoying finding new things and little known facts about series.

[@baronkarza2939]

doc savage was called "super man" a few time before kent made his first appearance

[@squirrel9407]

@@baronkarza2939 Thanks! That makes a lot of sense, given the popularity of Doc Savage. I honestly hadn't made the connection. Appreciated, Baron! Loved your work in the Micronauts too lol

[@baronkarza2939]

@@squirrel9407 Your welcome And I'm glad to know I'm not forgotten

[@OneMoreEpitaph]

I don't really have much to say on the topic but- good video as always overlord!

[@leavonfletcher4197]

If you are new to the channel, welcome! Might I suggest you watch the Complete Miracleman Saga next, if you want to continue this saga. I promise it is quite cool.

[@CaptainMarvelCulture]

Thank you for pointing out that Fawcett was a successful publishing company outside of its comic business. May half-butted histories assume the whole company went under when they settled the lawsuit.

[@DeathAlchemist]

Sometimes I imagine what it would be like if Captain Marvel was never acquired by DC.

[@abloshow91]

Fawcet wouldve made more heroes cause cap marvel gave fawcet enough capital to play around. Maybe theyd make more cap marvel type characters making a line like xmem is its own line. Plus the desperation to just survive during the silver age during the comics code days wpuld force them to male more characters esentialy making another big comic book company. I dpnt know of Cap Marvel wouldve been popular enough to grow beyond the silver age but i think they would've survived the Comic slump.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

@@abloshow91 Fawcett wouldn’t have survived.and there is no way DC wouldn’t have come at them. The reason why DC came at Fawcett was because they were probably angry,pissed off and jealous that a character who they believed ripped off their Golden boy. I mean do you even know why dc did to other publishers back in the day? They sued publishers who had characters with even the smallest resemblance to superman. There’s a reason why stan Lee called them the “distinguished completion”

[@abloshow91]

@@Kandhaqprotector yah i know dc is actually just a frankensteinien monster created by all the companies they bought out much like EA. From a large ruthles snake like Monster to what it us now. Sad But tbf i dont know what could hv happened if fawcet continued the Captain Marvel dominance it was outselling superman.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

@@abloshow91 they couldn’t have. D.C. we’re far too big. dude do you even know how big DC was in the 30s-50s which was the golden era of comic books? They reigned in that era of the comic books. Fawcett was just a tiny publisher. They saw Fawcett as a threat and they needed to eliminate the threat. D.C. sued tons of other publishers back in the day. During the golden age of comics they were too big. And as much as I love DC cause I’m a diehard DC fan. What they did to Fawcett was brutal. But there’s no way Fawcett could have won. Dude the people employed at Fawcett literally admitted during their testimonies in court that they were hired to create someone similar to superman. Because when action comics no 1 debuted. That was what brought the genre to life. It was what made the genre what it is.

[@kingj7606]

@@Kandhaqprotector You sound like you're hard on Superman. Captain Marvel was never a direct copy nor a plagiarized version of DC's golden boy, DC simply were too jealous to see that Captain marvel resonated more with comic readers hence why Captain Marvel outperformed Superman back in the day, and had they never ceased publication, I can say without a shadow of a doubt Captain Marvel would've been a bigger hit today in pop culture.

[@dfcsons]

My jury is still out on the current Shazam series DC is doing, very hot and cold. I think 2 more issues and I may dump it, its just taking far too long getting where it's going. And I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love this channel. Hopefully us fans can help you out along the way to make things more enjoyable and rewarding for your efforts. Always look forward to see what you've got next!

[@holdthetruthhostage]

This why DC doesn't deserve any respect man for this crime

[@brennanshane146]

DC messed up the character Marvel messed up the name

[@holdthetruthhostage]

@@brennanshane146 Drop the Games, DC hates the character that was more popular than SuperMan SHAZM & made him at best a 4th string. A kid That becomes an adult its Golden

[@brennanshane146]

@@holdthetruthhostageSorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say there. The lack of proper spelling and punctuation makes it almost illegible. lol

[@holdthetruthhostage]

@@brennanshane146 what I'm saying is that Shazam was far more popular than Superman during his introduction, that he had far better sales for years over superman until DC Sued the company out of hate, then they shelfed him & limited his potential under their ownership

[@brennanshane146]

@@holdthetruthhostage You're right. DC refuses to let Captain Marvel grow, if they did, he would probably outsell Superman again. And they don't want that.

[@jonclark8510]

Sn easy to understand explanation and context. Very educational. Thanks! I've always thought this was an interesting story.

[@AlienIOIandroktone]

Always find your videos very interesting! Hope the channel begins to grow

[@r0kus]

Interesting, informative video. Thank you.

[@pootisengage6672]

This is a really good channel

[@juanjosemacias8741]

The copyright and ownership battles between Superman, Captain Marvel, Marvelman/Miracleman and Marvel's Captain Marvel would give enough stuff to write a legal encyclopedia. Here you may find - a brief moment in which Superman was public domain - Superman adopting many of the traits that made Captain Marvel different, like the Superman family, clearly inspired by the Marvel family. - a supposed Superman copy, Captain Marvel, that ends up being merged into the comics published by DC, the same company that filled the copyright lawsuit - a DC character that can't use it's most popular name, Captain Marvel, due to the fact that other company, Marvel comics, has been publishing mediocre comics with the same title, some of them adapting themes found in the original Captain Marvel character (e.g. Rick Jones clashing its armbands to switch places with a stronger and more grown-up Kree; seriously, sometimes I was expecting that a writer would make Rick say 'Shazam') - an ersatz version of Captain Marvel, the allegedly copy, called Marvelman (or Miracleman) that has caused itself decades of legal battles, and ironically none of them related to the 'original inspiration' of Marvelman. An excellent series of video analysis on this matter was already published in this channel a couple of years ago, and I'm always glad to recommend them, and any other video from Strange Brain Parts, to anyone who might be interested in going on a bit further in this history. I know that KZbin may be a cruel place in which pieces of trash get millions of likes, and channels whose only goal seem to be spreading such garbage have millions of subscribers, while others that deserve more that kind of attention or recognition seemingly go unnoticed. But believe me, your channel is a rare jewel that doesn't rely on funny videos, parlor tricks, acting like a clown or simply reviewing what has already been seen in many other channels. And for that you have my gratitude and support.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

No characters aren’t really protected by copyright but by trademark. Superman was never in the public domain. Only some of his strips which Mclure failed to put its copyright on were renewed

[@ShinoSarna]

Great video, really in-depth!

[@caballerosalas]

This channel is awesome

[@louief2]

Another brilliant upload,thanks.

[@joshuatraxler7766]

Love this channel. Appreciate your work.

[@sonofsound]

Another solid video! Thanks SBP!

[@StrangeBrainParts]

Thank you! And thanks for watching.

[@linseyfalls6961]

Just now finding your channel and love it.

[@edward2962]

Excellent video!

[@superdragonz1]

Love this channel 👍

[@ThDirtyCurfDrummer]

I'm sorry your viewership is dwindling. I've been a subscriber for quite some time now. You always do excellent work. I honestly do not feel that DC had any merit in either lawsuit. Both characters were vastly different from Superman, with different back stories and different villains too. Let's face it. Superman was their flagship character, and they would sue the pants off of anyone who had a superhero who was outselling Superman.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

To be fair tho Roscoe Fawcett did say “give me a superman but have his identity be a boy rather than a man”

[@garykuzminski7969]

I love what you do. Thx!

[@thomasleon9550]

Where did the scans for captain marvel come from? I really wanna read that early stuff, it looks wonderful.

[@Madbmberwhatbmbsatmidnight]

I don’t know where he got his scans but I read a lot of golden age public domain stuff on comicbookplus.com. They’ve got lots of old whiz comics, captain marvel, police comics (plastic man), etc.

[@TFP2PTR]

I don’t tend to like self-advertising to any extent, but, I must admit, you absolutely deserve some more attention. You are the best comic channel on KZbin, for real. Constantly going in-depth with interesting events, never droning on too long or repeating yourself too much. You’re concise and clear. Not even to mention the best part: that you cover comics that are truly underappreciated/unheard of. You’re the best, man! I hope you continue to grow. Keep the good stuff coming, please!

[@StrangeBrainParts]

Thank you very much! That's quite kind of you to say. I will try to continue doing my best well into the future.

[@RodrigoGonzalez-tf9cj]

el reportaje es bastante ordenado y claro sobre un tema muy complicado.

[@walterhoward5512]

Great video.

[@Intheknow12]

Great vid

[@gregorio1580]

Can I ask you where does your intro of "10 minutes into the future, on a *BLANK* universe" comes from? It's kino, or did you come up with it yourself?

[@TFP2PTR]

I second this question - albeit a year later.

[@Medraut00]

thank you for this vid.

[@d.jhayward4402]

Great content. As always.

[@nlpnt]

I always thought someone at either DC or Fawcett was carrying a grudge and they had to retire before the licensing agreement could happen (most likely family-owned Fawcett since DC had been owned by a conglomerate since the mid '60s when they came into the same ownership as Warner Brothers), and that's why it took almost 20 years.

[@CaptainMarvelCulture]

There was really no interest from either side in reviving the original hero for those 20 years. Fawcett's comics sales were declining when they settled the case but the rest of their business was doing just fine, and there was no logical reason for DC to publish stories of the character they had shut down. It was only when either Jack Kirby or Carmine Infantino (depending on how you believe) got the idea to revive him that the licensing agreement happened. But ye. most everyone involved in the original case had retired by then.

[@nlpnt]

@@CaptainMarvelCulture Good point. Fawcett's big star in 1953 was Tom McCahill.

[@brennanshane146]

DC really said Captain Marvel stole the idea of flying? Captain Marvel flew an entire year before Superman. Captain Marvel was the first superhero to ever fly

[@guyfawkes938]

Whenever I hear of this legal battle I am reminded of Superduperman's Captain Marbles. Strength - Health - Aptitude - Zeal - Ox, power of - Ox, power of another - Money!

[@willhenderson6741]

I kept finding myself distracted by those wild covers

[@beefgravystudios]

They are similar but different. If I was the judge, I would of told DC to let it go. Excellent coverage.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

There is no way Fawcett could have won. DC’s lawyers were way too good man. The judge didnt actually believe that Shazam himself was a copy of superman. But rather that Fawcett plagiarised superman’s comic strips.

[@Cervando]

The copying of the artwork was extremely obvious and together with the admission from Fawcett employees that they were told to copy the artwork quite correctly swung the case in DC's favour. This article explains it really well www.brittonpayne.com/Marvel/SupermanShazam.html

[@JSB1882]

I never liked Superman as much as Captain Marvel. It's funny that DC thought Captain marvel was a rip off , but in the end decided to publish Shazam.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

But he essentially is? Shazam is superman + magic. And DC had to publish “Shazam” because marvel trademarked the use of the publication name “Captain Marvel”

[@srnigromante9214]

@@Kandhaqprotector If you simplify things like that almost every superhero is a rip off of another one

[@guzo116]

Funny Will Eisner also stole the Walt Disney font for his name on the cover of 'The Dreamer'

[@TheRealDustinNunn]

DC should have renamed Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) the character's name from "Captain Marvel" to "Captain Marvelous" because back when Billy Batson was with Fawcett, his creators were trying to think of a superhero name for his alter-ego. The original name was going to be "Captain Thunder", but there was already a character named Captain Thunder. So then, Billy Batson's alter-ego was renamed "Captain Marvelous". But there was a problem: the name "Captain Marvelous" could not fit anywhere on the covers of the comic books, inside the comic books, word balloons, thought balloons and narrator boxes so the name was shortened to "Captain Marvel". Renaming the character "Shazam" was a stupid idea because there is already a character named Shazam, who was the wizard who passed on his powers to Billy Batson.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

Ye or they could have tried Captain DC.

[@jamesdlin7]

When and why did DC stop being litigious? It's surprising that DC didn't go after Marvelman/Miracleman, Supreme, or various other Superman clones.

[@itachisenju5396]

Because capital Marvel is more popular than Superman

[@Kandhaqprotector]

@@itachisenju5396 not really he was outselling him tho but you can’t blame DC. Someone rip offs of your intellectual property who wouldn’t be mad.

[@itachisenju5396]

@@Kandhaqprotector Super man is also a rip off character....

[@Kandhaqprotector]

@@itachisenju5396 how? He is the OG superhero

[@KardboardKenny]

long story short, if Supes stories were as good as Capt Marvel's (hence sales), you'd have never hear of the Big, Red Cheese.

[@GleeChan]

I want to say that DC probably did have an argument with the true Captain Marvel when they first starting the lawsuit, but shortly after nearly everyone was copying Superman. I mean, since Superman is the first and the inspiration, everyone is going to ape off of that. BUT the lawsuit went on for a long time that in the end it was already pointless. I believe DC's true intentions was to make a statement and to get everyone else to stop ripping them off. (Hell, Superman knockoffs are still being made today - mostly to point fun at him or else complain about his flaws). I will say that while the true Captain Marvel did take great inspiration from Superman, it pretty. much became it's own thing really quickly.

[@juliagoodwin9510]

I do love how DC's lawsuit eventually bit them in the ass. Talk about Karma!

[@rickytoddbotelho9555]

I would have given you a definite thumbs up months ago if I'd seen this one. But pooptube somehow has mysteriously un-subbed me from numerous of my favorite channels. Absolutely this is the one subject that has bothered me more than any other in comics except George Lucas barely mentioning the similarity between Darkseid, Dr. Doom and Baron Karza from the micronauts. Which if any astute among the fans left alive after the plague would know is absolutely where the Darth Vader character originated from. As though spawned from these fascinating stories that somewhere boiled in the mire of darkness borne such villainy. Not unlike the way DC somehow finagled Captain Marvel from it's creator and the low life courts sided with this event even though Captain Marvel is in now way similar to Superman except he supposedly flies and has super strength. I despise the modern realistic take on one of my favorite comic books subjects exactly how I knew that DC would in some way taint the magic of the story with mundane in a way I think to draw love of the fanciful to the typical. Another thing I hated about DC acquiring Captain Marvel is that absolutely I think it was a plot either political or a subversive attempt to try and halt this fantastic myth from gaining the heights it should have years and years ago. Cheers to you for your doc.

[@Kandhaqprotector]

No it wasn’t that it was that DC sued multiple other publishers back in the day for Characters that had even the smallest resemblance in the day. Hell they even sued Marvel. D.C. reigned In the golden age of comic books and they wanted to eliminate all competition. But they’ve changed now lol 😂

[@sammcfarlane2494]

I love Shazam

[@Duck_Dodgers]

Capt marvel was out selling the big blue boy scout....the big red cheese was getting too popular.

[@jacob_ian_decoursey_the_author]

First!

[@smartthink6510]

Superman is the stupidest character i have ever seen. How could a hero easly defeated only by krypton stone. It doesnt make a sense to me.

[@ThDirtyCurfDrummer]

Superman is from another planet. The planet is made of Kryptonite. On Krypton the people do not fly or have special powers like lasers coming from their eyes, or super breath. When Kal-El came to Earth his physiology changed. Now he could fly, now he was super strong, now he could shoot lasers from his eyes and emit super breath. This also changed his interaction with green Kryptonite. It turned to poison for him. Maybe that still doesn't help you understand, but that's the facts of the story.

[@squidfartz]

Your work is excellent and I hope you're able to continue.