The Consequences of Constantly Complaining About Characters

streamed Sep. 4, 2023
You will never get props for your win and you will never be happy with the state of the game. Time is a flat circle, etc.
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#FGC #Sajam #SF6 #StreetFighter #GGST #GuiltyGear

[@adomisk3047]

I think Jamie is extremely overpowered. He drinks a bunch and becomes so powerful and difficult to deal with. I drink a bunch and it's "Oh we're concerned for your health" or "Sir have you been drinking tonight? License and registration"

[@bageltoo]

“I don’t have drinking problem, I just need to unlock my divekick.”

[@Qiom1]

Smash player detected

[@Nofixdahdress]

Jamie chugs booze and gets a command grab. I chug booze and get my stomach pumped. We are not the same.

[@dubuious]

"I'm not drunk officer, I'm loaded up"

[@kevingriffith6011]

"I swear, officer, it's herbal tea."

[@BIaziken2]

It feels like the more balanced a fighting game becomes the more unhinged the discourse about who's the best character becomes.

[@leithaziz2716]

Since differences in strengths are more abstract and subtle, players essentially gaslight themselves into believieng whatever they're feeling about a character. Meanwhile, it's be hard to convince some that a character like 3rd Strike Sean is actually good, since the evidence is pretty damning and there's not much room for interpretation.

[@jreut09]

Truer words have never been spoken sir. When balance becomes muddy it makes the downplay Olympics that much more competitive

[@Near_Pluto_]

The absolute realest comment

[@ADreamingTraveler]

Yeah it's crazy SF6 is probably the most balanced fighting game Capcom's ever released or any dev has ever released but you still got people acting like certain characters are in a league of their own. Also the people trying to downplay their mains is some of the scummiest shit. Ken mains trying to say JP mains are so bad and need nerf but not a peep from them about Ken is some sad shit lol

[@AchedSphinx]

good point. if there's no obvious top tier and no obvious bottom tier, players gotta battle it out to find out which character really is in these positions. modern games make it so even bottom tiers are pretty good. pot in yo face, well good luck baby. him being bottom tier isn't going to make that situation any better.

[@ahmcha357]

God, I'm so excited for Project L to have League character complaining meet FGC character complaining. We'll have enough tears and salt to make a new fucking ocean. Thank you for always suggesting that every one just calm the fuck down, Sajam. Also, as an Anji player, respectfully: if you wanna complain about Midare, you can chew on gravel, my character is finally good and you will NOT ruin that for me.

[@Draconilian]

I cannot wait for an entire community to bitch about my Yasuo but be unable to ban him from me >=)

[@plastictrumpet6862]

@@Draconilian going from 0/10 in Ranked and ruining the game to going 0/10 in pools and ruining your EVO run, bless

[@Fucklifedeadshit]

League players will be back to league after the first weekend when they realize there’s no jungler to blame for their failure as a player.

[@-ShiraZen-]

It doesn't help that Project L has some of the most DEGENERATE mix I've seen in a game from Eko. .... It's gonna be awesome! I hope every character is broken as fuck and the game isn't patched into a shell of what it could be. Take UMVC3. It's such an amazing game *because* its broken and unpatched.

[@penence347]

Relax he was never that bad other characters were just better

[@Gadlight]

There was this literal Kid (13 years old) from the Southamerica West region who got to top 8, an amazing feat indeed, BUT he was using Ken, and there was this crowd of people saying "but he was using Ken tho" "even a Kid can win with Ken" and i was like... "Then do it yourself bro, if its so easy go for it CPT Champion in the making". ffs

[@benjamingeorge8241]

Let them huff their copium lol

[@anenemystand5582]

Tell them to hop on Ken and sign up for cpt. See how far Ken carries them.

[@ZephyrK_]

Bruh i saw this and I couldn’t believe it, the most miserable players are always the ones with to little to no accolades to their name. That kid gave me hope for the younger gen 🤧

[@phillipfry8141]

13 years old is when people are best at video games, being "a kid" is an advantage, not a disadvantage.

[@speokeosai]

@@phillipfry8141 Really? Then why haven't I heard of any 13 year old winning EVO?

[@zeiphie]

Ima be real wid ya'll; I play fighting games to fight; to fight the opponent, to fight the opponent's character, to fight my own character, to fight own ineptitude at the whole thing. I am here to literally throw hands with everything in existence when I play. Not to make peace that I'm bad and the opponent knowledge checked me for the 100th time while I refuse to go into training room to expediently figure out an appropriate solution. Though for all that there's one big diff tho between me and others I think; and it's that I don't go on social media to propagate my filth like it's some kind of injustice.

[@artusdoomer5291]

Beyond based

[@skubadoobie]

Spittin

[@ΚρανίΩ]

belongs in a museum this is 🔥

[@brunop.8745]

this post is so fire its giving the Sun a run for its money

[@pian-0g445]

Goddamn. A fellow ‘not training’ player. Any match up knowledge is either from hearing from a third party or through a spike tell torturous amounts of rematches against a god player of a certain character.

[@Prydunable]

That's why I play Manon, I get both the grappler OS AND the low tier character OS all at once. Every win's a win and every loss doesn't count.

[@greensky5328]

Now couple that with the emotional scaling on "I don't even play this game" on loss or win and you have a top tier mindset. Truly mentally untouchable.

[@ubadman1]

playing a character that is awful at th ebegnning of a SF lifespan is 4d chess. She won stay that way.

[@leithaziz2716]

That's just the grappler OS. Being a grappler usually means you're already a low tier.

[@Monkey_Tree]

Ye did you forget or werent you around when 'manon is broken' was the gospel. 90% of the fgc suck at game balance. Moral of the story, play whoever you want and dont listen to anyone. There will always be ppl complaining. I stopped listening

[@Lamentationsofapoory]

Hell yeah baby bulletproof mental

[@fra.cassio]

The most frustrating thing about top players donwplaying their characters/complaining about other characters is that, because of their skill level, they're the people casual and intermediate players would want to rely on for tech/gameplan/matchup knowledge; but then you go to some of their "analysis" content and it's thinly-veiled lobbying for buffs/nerfs. You can actually become more ignorant and a worse player for listening to some of the advice out there.

[@Jehanansi]

Yea my mentality is always, JP and Ken are good, I can be better tho

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

@@Jehanansilike JP is good but angry acting like he's on a tier of his own is so obnoxiously scrubby dear god

[@suedeloaf9527]

I agree with this so much. I actually stopped caring about the opinions of top players a long time ago because at the end of the day, they're just people, just like you and me. And they're subjected to their own biases. And a lot of the time they don't explain things very well, or just say 'x match up is terrible because of this move' but the proof doesn't show in their games, or they just keep everything vague. The most recent example I can think of is when I watching The Birds stream, Big Bird just straight up says "The Ryu and Ken match up is even guys, just accept it!", but then doesn't go on to explain how or why.

[@ItWasSaucerShaped]

100% this as a casual player, this was an incredibly frustrating and depressing discovery i made - unless it was either sajam content or max content, you were most likely to find 'pro' players just editorializing on game design (which they have no expertise in) and using their platform to lobby for buffs/nerfs. completely useless to new players, but sold as a 'guide' or 'tips' or 'analysis' because calling it 'lobbying to make my character better' would be a bit too on the nose

[@freshbroceries4601]

The Peacock blood in me compels me to inform everyone that Sage won the set the clip at 11:00 is from. Almost every character in skullgirls looks that broken when they're winning, the only difference is peacock can do it from Fullscreen.

[@kubi3223]

and it was also solo beowulf against possibly his worst matchup which makes it a little funnier

[@lancesmith8298]

And also, worth mentioning another thing about Beowulf: the fact he can delete people off a good confirm isn’t exactly busted, even if the My Way clip is seared into my memory. For one, just about any solo can do it with the right (and sometimes highly specific) counterhits, and for another, look at any mixup in Skullgirls’ top level. In exchange for the most specific, fragile team structure possible, perhaps even forgoing an assist or two for damage output, he gets to take you straight to 0 health instead of a 75% chance for the reset to hit halfway through. He is, fundamentally, balanced for his absurd lack of undizzy. Also nobody talks about Painwheel. She’s not terrible, nobody is in Skullgirls; she’s just specific and also probably the hardest character to play, with zero work-around for her mechanics. That said your reward for doing it is the scariest fucking high-low mixup in the game, by herself, at such a rapid speed that it’s a safe block string composed of them.

[@VoermanIdiot]

I like Shine's approach to this whole thing. Someone comes and wants to complain about your character and downplay their character? Ask for specifics on why their character sucks against yours, let them pratte on about what makes their character weak against yours. Now use it against them, ruthlessly. They're the ones giving you absolutely free information with nothing in return.

[@AlterEgoQ]

Wait, that's fucking genius LOL

[@ΚρανίΩ]

this is devious but im stealing that

[@ko-yoshi]

Damn guess I need to tune into Shines stream more often

[@TheDonaldduck911]

Okay bro but you're not talking to daigo making him spill all his juicy sf tech on how to beat ken. And even if him and tokido suddenly decided to make a 60 hour course on how to beat them tomorrow you're not pulling it off. Not even shine as good as he might be. There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

[@VoermanIdiot]

@@TheDonaldduck911 The point is more so, people are far more willing to downplay their character by telling you their exact flaws rather than let you try to convince them otherwise. If you then just keep your ears open while complaining, you're getting good info.

[@cantbearpuns7439]

Wise words! There's a lot of negativity around... players invalidating the wins of others, etc. It's tiring.

[@DANCERcow]

What a bunch of scrubs

[@neotron6490]

It do be like that. Players rather be hangover with hot takes

[@AkimboPotatoes]

i honestly think, on the more casual level, that the reason character discourse becomes so toxic is because of the way prominent community members tend to talk about ranked on sf6. people get sick of hearing "you dont even have to be good to get master" or "diamond players suck" when thats the level theyre at, so they look for excuses. they look for excuses because their skill is being insulted and it feels shitty. so many of these creators make their audience feel like theyre dogwater at the game when in reality plat is like top 15% of ranked players. youre doing fine.

[@suedeloaf9527]

Big facts. I dislike the way top players talk about the game most of the time. Hyperbolic, vague, and hardly useful for 99% of the people watching.

[@themrfelipe6005]

But it's true, I got to master with only 40% win rate, the LP system just doesn't work

[@divertiti]

Nah, the complainers just don't have the maturity and self awareness to take accountability for their own wins and losses

[@exorius]

​@@themrfelipe6005you have to lose hundreds of games before something clicks and you improve. Wr isn't always goin to look pretty.

[@BuddyMocha]

I'm imagining a world where Snake Eyez wins the Capcom cup finals and suddenly everyone is complaining about Zangief despite the grappler GOAT playing him. Next thing you know everyone is playing Zangief and saying he's the reason they can't get out of Gold/Plat. War never changes

[@rundown132]

Id take gief fighter 6 over ken/jp fighter 6

[@sigurdtheblue]

Gief is in the top 3 most common characters I end up fighting, even though most of them suffer against me.

[@comradetyrone2298]

Nemo's already got you beat there. If you ask him Zangief is a hard matchup vs JP

[@Jainko]

Basically that's what happened when he won the qualifier

[@greensky5328]

Legends tell of a downplayer so determined he's commented on every lord knight video since the strive beta on a crusade to expose the shadow cabal of conspirators who dare suggest Ky is anything more than Servebot or Neco Arc tier.

[@johngleeman8347]

There's also the Gorrilla Man who does the same thing for Millia!

[@dj_koen1265]

@@johngleeman8347 the fact that i recognize the name gorilla man and dont even play strive is honestly impressive

[@tabkg5802]

D4C and Kanokon. The goats. I strive to someday be as good as them at downplaying arts

[@dollmakershazbot900]

It's funny, the only character meme I'll throw around is when you see the (Dante) coloured Ken on the versus screen. You know this man's about to pull all the lab combos on you, it's unavoidable.

[@davidhayward6382]

literally me

[@BiggBossChanel]

I'm more scared of the classic costume ones. They not only know every situational combo in existence they also know every frame kill known to man

[@SkeemborPeeblebutt]

Yeah but flow chart kens are so fun to plant as Zangief. Their mental breaks so fast once you break their flow. All it takes is one m.P into SPD or Lariat and I know I'm in there head. At that point it's only a matter of time before I get to hear my favorite round loss quote. HOW DID I LOSE!? Sweet, sweet victory.

[@sigurdtheblue]

There is a Dante Ken? There's like 10,000 Violent Kens.

[@SavianX]

We need more people who blindly upplay their character. Just pure love and enthusiasm for their main and you cant convince them otherwise, they're hopeless. But a quaint, adorable kind of hopeless.

[@KruxisV]

Nightwing and Blue Beetle players

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

Esam and his pickachu immediately came to mind lmao

[@Tomoka51]

You know what, you're right. I think I'm just gonna start becoming an insane upplayer. If I believe my character can do anything then it just means I need to get better at them.

[@leithaziz2716]

Anji players were good at doing that, actually.

[@malcovich_games]

Snake Eyez

[@carbide4458]

Another prime example of "Social media was a mistake"

[@El-Burrito]

We shoulda stuck to the forums

[@djhero0071]

Your channel icon is amazing.

[@MinogamiMakoto]

I wasn't in that era but fighting games seemed to be way more toxic before lol

[@MusicoftheDamned]

*Another prime example of "Humanity was a mistake".

[@neotron6490]

I say people there were kinda potshot fans you know

[@jaywalmoose9623]

Hey you, the person reading this, congrats on those matches you won. I don't care what character you played, I'm proud of you.

[@catdude3263]

Thanks, I needed it

[@Kross1995]

I REALLY needed to read that, thank you.

[@lookatmego_ohyes]

This comment right here. Thank you brother we all try our best out here❤🙌

[@ΚρανίΩ]

i play honda does this still count

[@LuigiLonLon]

aw thanks man!

[@GrootGuitar]

The fragility of EGO can often be the greatest foe of the FGC.

[@mrblooper1994]

Competitive games in general. When your self worth is on the line, you can say the most unhinged shit

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

It's honestly the worst part of those games... at least for ke

[@Shiratto]

Now that I see it, it’s only 2 lines off from being the same word

[@xHuie]

its also what prevents people from even trying to learn em too

[@damianateiro]

​@@mrblooper1994It is true but in FGC it is much more evident because it is 1v1

[@temporary_error_3264]

I used to play Krillin, Beerus, and Zamasu during the beginning of DBFZ’s lifespan. I still heard people bitch at me when they got any specific buff that made them slightly playable because “of course you pick them, they just got buffed!” And if I ever dared to play a better character “of course you picked them, they’re mid-high tier!”

[@masonwhite3698]

Every day that Sajam has to make another "Stop whining and learn the matchup" video makes me more thankful that I never made a Twitter account.

[@MastaGambit]

I just use mine for porn

[@The_Nei]

I loved this as a Manon player when the game launched. Everyone was convinced she was S-tier just 'cause 5 medals

[@ElsaChan597]

"But if she grabs you she does so much damage!" truly the condition of all time

[@pierrotrogers]

People dooming instead of labbing

[@rockrobster27]

If a Manon gets to 5 medal the opponent has no one to blame, but themselves for allowing her to get there.

[@FireandIceMage]

Thank goodness my favorite game character the tweet button never gets nerfed. The infinite stun lock my character of endlessly regurgitating what my favorite content creator says never gets old.

[@GATESOFKELL]

I think the last few minutes of the clip are really important to the conversation. Sajam spends the first 9 minutes explaining why the discourse is silly, and then chat just comes in with the anvil-brained takes of "at least ken follows the rules" and "jp is not a street fighter character." Sajam's ability to calmly but firmly make those people sound like fools is why he's one of, if not the best, the most important educational forces in the FGC.

[@zato-1766]

Well it's easy to argue with chat when they can't really rebuttal. This is a common repeated line by a lot of top players so it's not like this chatter was being ridiculous. JP does shit every other character in the game can't and getting like 60% off a wakeup reversal is exhibit A. Exhibit B is he's got some of the nastiest set ups/offense in the game, including a fuzzy launcher which I don't think anyone else has, on top of being a defensive power house in previously mentioned reversal, and out zones every character in the game. Any game where the best zoner in the game also has a tier-of-its-own best reversal in the game is already a broken character, and on top of that he's top tier in other areas. I'd argue best level 2 in the game as well although there's a lot more competition there. Amnesia is inarguably just leagues better than any other move with similar utility.

[@Asad-hv2dc]

​@@zato-1766learn the matchup stop complaining

[@loganedgeman5905]

​@@zato-1766 Just gotta practice bro. I play Zangief but I don't complain, just play. Practice makes Perfect.

[@zato-1766]

@@loganedgeman5905 I'm not complaining. At no point in my post do I gripe about how strong JP is. I'm just laying out why he's so strong. You can discuss why a character is insane without it being a complaint. This community is getting real annoying cause y'all act like discussing the tier list at all is somehow being a complainer.

[@zato-1766]

@@Asad-hv2dc how does learning the mathchup make amnesia not insane? It's not like if I lab JP all the sudden all his tools immediatetly become easy to get around, he's not a gimmick character. Y'all coming in with "git gud" to any tier list discussion is just as annoying as the grippers. I wasn't even complaining just laying out why JP is so good and "doesn't follow the rules".

[@ColeTrainStudio]

Like 10 years ago, I had this same mindset about League of Legends. Lee Sin had just come out (have checked; it was 13 years ago, wtf) and was dominant. And the entire community was like "this shit is busted, he is so easy to win with." To a degree, this was true because no one knew how to play against him. So I bought him expecting free elo ... all I did was feed. I had never played any character that had such a mechanically complex kit (which is funny to type, given how mechanically complex new LoL are) or had so many crazy movement options (ward hopping back in the day was mindblowing), so I lost constantly and got flamed over and over in matches because everyone perceived that the character was just free wins and required zero skill. Ever since then, any time someone tells me that a character is "free" or has "no counterplay", I ask if they've actually played the character. The answer, 90% of the time, is "No, I'd never play a bullshit character like that." And they proceed to play a character was was considered bullshit by the rest of the community back when the character was new.

[@ATLRiot_]

I can’t get over “It’s time to get in” and peacock immediately swaps sides

[@TheEvilCheesecake]

it, in fact, was not time to get in.

[@johndelanie3649]

"Am I the cause of my losses? No, it's the state of the game that is wrong." - Seymour Skinner, noted Honda onetrick

[@ADreamingTraveler]

Sajam's advice and mentality is the only answer for this. There's not any other avenue. You either learn to fight against these characters or you suffer.

[@BBGunRenegade]

I'll always remember Sentinel getting nerfed hard in Marvel Vs Capcom 3 early on partly because of complaining, when even without the nerfs he wouldn't have even been top 5. Street Fighter 6 is still a pretty new game. Everyone needs to just relax

[@kman2675]

The audacity of my friends complaining about sentinel while running wesker/zero/vergil

[@lucaswibisono1316]

Oh wow, the absurdly OP teams lol

[@MusicoftheDamned]

​@@kman2675To be fair to Vergil, he didn't exist in the game at the same time that Sentinel got overkilled with nerfs. It's extra funny because the overall mostly happened due to the original X-Factor being *even dumber* than X-Factor still is, at least damage and speed-wise. As someone who played Wesker though, yeah, I still can't believe he and especially Zero got buffs going into _UMVC3_ either, but I feel that way about a decent chunk of characters who didn't need buffs but still got them like C. Viper and especially Morrigan.

[@michaeligwe6283]

Kinda what happened with Beta-Kimberly in SF6 lol

[@andrewflow1740]

Crazy to me that game discourse is so stale on the subject of character strength that sajam gets to make the same video using the same peacock video and it's still so funny every time

[@legostyle0379]

This rant is so good i had to listen to it twice.

[@howdydoodydoo3631]

Same. Yipes went off on the last can opener too. It’s getting absolutely exhausting. It’s been exhausting. Even capcom event commentators whine endlessly about characters and tiers.

[@DrgoFx]

As a Ky main who fluctuates floors 7-9, I legit lose a game and go "Dang, if I could DP while blocking better, I could've stopped that pressure." or "Idk what to do against that option... Let's look at dustloop/KZbin to see if there's a solution." like I've just developed a mind set of "If what I tried to do didn't work, or didn't happen, it's my bad. I thought this would go one way, and the game disagreed." and I will always be thankful for that mentality cause it saves me a lot of salt.

[@Cursed_Fruit]

Please talk about this more - remake this video constantly... actually just straight up reupload this video every month - we need to be good at the game by playing it not changing it every week so we can be good at it

[@calebcobb2883]

The true downplay Olympics of fighting games

[@santi3574]

I just want a gaming community that enjoys playing the game the community is about. Why is it so hard!?

[@ganymede4030]

Same! It's every community too. SF6 and another game I play are full to the brim with people bitching and moaning and it's kinda killing it for me

[@howdydoodydoo3631]

I used to think the FGC being addicted to character whining and tiers was mostly a vocal minority of players. I’ve learned that that is definitely not the case. It feels like it’s all anybody talks about no matter who you are. Sf6 is an amazing game being brought down by honestly endless, fucking endless complaining.

[@leithaziz2716]

@@howdydoodydoo3631 To be frank, I think the only reason discourse exists is because it's something to talk about that keeps the game relevant in the moment (at least, when there isn't a new DLC character coming out). TF2 turned into that once Valve stopped official support. Outside of memes, random tierlists and SFM, topics boil down to "Sniper is OP", "Pyro is braindead", "Spy needs buffs" or someone making concepts for weapon rebalancing on the daily.

[@krellykrells]

people are going to complain no matter the game, unfortunately just something we gotta deal with

[@ControlShifty]

Welcome to the genre of *Competitive* video games. Shooters,MOBAs,Fighting Games,Card Games, etc. If there is competition between players, there is salt.

[@SophistictaedDevil]

>People complaining about JP and Ken in SF6. >Sajam, frame 1: That new Anji move kinda busted.

[@8thlvlMage]

He also said instead of bitching about it on twitter that he was going to find out how to beat it. That's the opposite of what Sajam is talking about these JP and Ken players (as an example) are doing.

[@SupermanSajam]

That's the point. I accept that this is my life now and I'll just game.

[@kaemonbonet4931]

We sure do live in a society, huh?

[@toonboy222]

I beat another player on Modern Controls and he couldn’t stop complaining about how I was playing the game wrong. If they don’t complain about the character, it’s the fault of the controls.

[@emeryvolpe3509]

For every fighting game I liked since I was a kid, I would look at the cast looked at who I liked and pick them. They always happened to be considered high tier. Melee? Marth / Sheik Smash 4 Cloud Smash ultimate joker / byleth FighterZ Gohan, Black, Cell GGST Ram / Ky Sf6 Ken What frustrates me as someone trying to get into these games is because I like these characters, picked them not knowing they were top tier my practice, my results, and my losses are all viewed in a different light. I just want to play the game and get better, but because I am picking better characters my skill and room for improvement get ignored. It's the biggest issue with tier lists at a low to mid tier level. We are not optimal enough or know enough to bring out what makes these characters amazing, if we did we wouldn't be low to mid tier players.

[@jayb67]

I'm the exact opposite: My favorite characters happened to be low tier. But it doesn't stop me from playing them. And while I know not everyone who mains Ken does so because hes top tier, I know he's insanely popular due in part to him being insanely good compared to most of the cast.

[@shadowd63]

I am mentally already Master Tier, its just that your character holds me back.

[@protodevilin]

I love how this concept has to be re-explained every single time a new (popular) fighting game comes out. There's just something about a pure skill-based 1v1 experience that seems to obliterate everyone's personal accountability.

[@goobplayzgames8358]

I’m a smash player checking out the fighting game scene, and I kinda love fighting against the characters everyone hates in that game, specifically Steve and Kazuya. It feels like I’m playing against like a dark souls boss weaving around all their crazy blocks and axes and EWGFs knowing that one touch could mean a stock loss for me, and I feel great just winning neutral.

[@candi_appel]

the timing on this is a bit funny. last night i played a few games with a friend and she plays Ken. sf6 is my first ever fighting game and im REALLY ass. i swapped between Luke and Marisa and after 19 games of getting my ass beat, i finally learned how to block that Jinrai kick shit. i have never felt a greater feeling than BARELY grasping victory from defeat like that. all i had to do was learn! hopefully others are able to adapt a mindset like that and be able to enjoy the game without tearing each other down.

[@KidArkx]

This analogy was missing , and then I punished jinrai with MM Phalanx super with marisa for 6k damage and he screamed calling Marisa braindead.

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

As a ryu main I had a problem against Jamie because it genuinely felt like I couldn't do anything against them Only to learn that most of his moves are come out FAST but are pretty minus on shield, and it felt good knowing that

[@ericsimonson8002]

If I lose as a Zangief player I knew who I picked and I knew who I'd fight so it's my own fault. If I win I remind myself that my damage output is phenomenal. I don't play Zangief for the ego boost when I win or so I have an excuse when I lose. I just like Zangief.

[@ShjadeNexayre]

*points at Zangief* Like Potemkin?

[@ericsimonson8002]

@@ShjadeNexayre Right! Although, let's be honest, potemkin has a far better variety of tools than any other grappler in a 2D game.

[@JennyTheNerdBat]

Zangief's loyal fan =)

[@otorinthuzoth8624]

Yeyeyeyeye. MORE alliteration.

[@NickJJU]

I think what people mean when they say a character "doesn't play by the rules of the game," it's that the character can do something they don't like that no other character in the game, or often in pretty much any game, can do. JP having a counter that beats throws goes against what most people feel is the "correct" RPS around counter moves, which is that they should lose to throws. Happy Chaos having a gun that can shoot on frame one, cover whiffs, and allows for meterless combos off of uncharged Dust (which Zato can do as well, but it's still not the "norm" in the game) feels like it's "against the rules" because whiffed buttons are "supposed" to be punishable, and uncharged Dust is "supposed" to be a difficult to react to overhead at the cost of not leading to a combo without also spending meter. Obviously, the devs can allow the characters they design to do whatever they want them to do. And they're probably not going to change these things unless they're WAY too strong, regardless of how much complaining people do on twitter. I think what people want is a consistent set of "rules" that none of the characters in the game "break". But once you start going down the line, lots of characters "break rules" in one way or another, it's just not as frustrating as with JP or HC. So it's hard to know where to draw the line, because "breaking the rules" can often be what makes a character unique and fun.

[@stephenmsf]

Sajam dropping that wisdom again. Go off, king

[@cantreed6214]

this is so real. there's something about this kind of behavior that sucks the goodness out of everything. fighting games are at their prime rn but I do worry what players learning this kind of negativity cycle could do to everyone. how long until people recognize FGC for these kinds of things, yknow. because if it ever gets to that point it's gonna become league of legends. I dont know who's to blame for how people think about other characters, and how this cycle of complaining and toxicity is able to persist. all I can do is hope people can bring themselves above that, identify it and become willing to get themselves & others out of it. we'd all be stronger for it, I think.

[@cantreed6214]

THAT PEACOCK CLIP FUCKS ME UP SO BAD but it's so good to know it's universal ❤️ I think most skullgirls players are good about recognizing and avoiding toxicity. then again, A. this is not to put skullgirls above any other game or to say it has traits that make it the golden egg or anything & B. I think the only person I've seen post about skullgirls consistently is dekillsage. I literally don't know what other current skug players exist anymore bc sharpie retired I think? and sonicfox is playing mk rn. so I kinda can't tell where the community is rn lmao where are they I wanna say hi,,

[@crabcakes448]

Dude it's the FGC. A huge percentage are the most try-hard, sweatiest, angriest people around. They think a game is good when they're winning, and they think it sucks when they're losing.

[@digitalsmear]

We got the Button Check talk show on one end of KZbin and the Reality Check talk show on this end.

[@scrubulous3606]

Best part about that Skullgirls clip is that Dekillsage (the Beowulf) won the set

[@arachnofiend2859]

I'd argue the best part is him saying "I need assistance" when you can see on the screen that he actively chose not to give Beowulf any assistance against Peacock's zoning cadre

[@dr_pibby]

I like how people will clamour for their character leading up to patch day. Like they believe the devs are gonna make last minute changes for them specifically.

[@rogueyoshi]

All I'm gonna say is Jiren's EX counter in S4 of DBFZ works exactly like OD Amnesia (beats strikes and throws) and they nerfed that midseason because they knew it was a mistake. OD Amnesia is even better than that, Jiren gets a smalll chunk of damage and no natural followup. JP gets a fat combo if he gets a punish combo, or two layers of mixup if he didn't.

[@rezonance4937]

Just bait it bro

[@kaemonbonet4931]

Dbz is a Much faster game. I see that move get baited into oblivion all the time. Costs them 3 bars, 40+% and the op gets oki.

[@jpVari]

I agree with every word said here and I really really needed to hear it from someone at least a few folks might listen to. Thank you sajam. Thank you very very much. Seriously.

[@DUFFNOTDUFF]

I'm gonna be really bummed out if Ken and JP are nerfed to the point that they aren't much fun to play anymore due to hyperbolized criticism being taken as legitimate feedback by Capcom. I have played Ken in previous games so I knew I'd be playing him in 6 mostly at the start to get a handle on things, and was super interested in JP from his artwork/trailers. Turned out that both are really sick and stupid fun to play. I get some nerfs are warranted/justifiable for both (and I honestly hope they nerf OD Amnesia lol), but some people are just out for fuckin blood and want the characters to play like dog shit. Its so wack

[@TohoEggbirb]

the real fighting game is the comments section and each social media platform is a different game

[@absoul112]

As an Anji player, yeah the fish is stupid. My guess is that they wanted to buff spin, without altering other aspects of it. For those who don’t know, you can PRC an attack that activates spin and Anji can’t do the same. The fish basically gives him answer to that and baiting spin with jabs. As far as I’m aware, best options are to either attack from the air or PRC backdash to avoid it.

[@Boganella]

Sajam talking about everyone being salty will never not be the funniest thing to me this is my 2nd serious FG and it's so funny to observe the cycle happening all over again coming from SFV to 6

[@strategist9]

I can understand venting about stuff, but the FGC in general never thinks big picture. So Character A is OP? Well when the meta changes or they get nerfed, now Character B is the problem. Then Character C, D, E, etc. Always moving the goalposts, never just learning to deal with the problem. I cannot believe people are complaining about Sin. All last season he had to get by on scraps and now that he finally gets to eat that's a step too far? Can't have anything in this world.

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

The point of "balance doesn't matter at their level" hits hard because the game is SO well balanced right now that your local intermediate can make goddamn lily look broken More often when intermediate players complain, they use pro-play as a escape goat to hide behind their hurt egos

[@byofg3514]

Scapegoat.

[@masterdoge7219]

I truly never got this. My mentality has always been of believing that the character I play is good, regardless if he's top tier or not. If I believe in the potential of the character, I can make it work. But the FGC always seemed to go the complete oposite way. 99% of the messages you read anywhere are downplaying their main and complaining about X. Not to mention the fact that, regardless of what you play, you are attacked for it, as it somehow makes you an inferior human being, either for choosing a bad character or an OP one, no inbetweens.

[@chevoyingram9589]

FGC? bro this is any game with a competitive community. Its just human nature

[@mikejonesnoreally]

It's weird that you complain about exaggeration and then list a totally made up BS "statistic" such as: "99% of the messages you read *anywhere....* i mean seriously, do you not think anyone can READ what you're saying? Your as FULL OF IT as any downplayer! xD

[@AB54099]

My favourite thing about Sajam is that he actually complains about Strive Faust. It makes me feel very validated as someone who plays him.

[@TheBanimal]

You know what, you're right. Still gonna call every JP carried regardless if I win or lose.

[@GreenBro11]

Honestly I’m just happy the Street Fighter discourse is back with such intensity. Near the end of SF5 it felt like the community didn’t care anymore. Like no one enjoyed the game and were just waiting for SF6.

[@BiggBossChanel]

Bro wasn't there for the Luke discourse

[@ΚρανίΩ]

@@BiggBossChanelthe pre Aleks Le clutch

[@perriwinkleiii5361]

I have to say, not for the first time and not for the last time, your thumbnails are some of my favourite on KZbin

[@SlaineReigns]

I have a suggestion! Lets all just play mirror Luke v Luke every tournament so there's no BS like this that comes out of people everytime. Oh? You wouldn't want that? Why? Cuz it would be boring? Well stfu and accept losses like a real man. AT this point hearing this from players is so tiring tbh. Lets look at the facts here, game is more balanced than any Vanilla SF game ever. Every character's viable but still people downplay players because they think they got outplayed by the character and not the player. Grow the f up people. EDIT: To add, even then people would still moan about a mirror match cuz the losing player will moan about the other player having more experience than themselves on a mirror match. You cant make this sh* up lol.

[@TheVidgamejunkie]

I need a Pong World Tour.

[@Ragness10]

I straight up never even SAW a Bedman player before last patch.

[@Prince_of_Pizza]

Thumbnail on point as usual.

[@WutTheDeuceGaming]

9:31 Ken ain't following no rules, wtf is that comment? LOL.

[@Mawthu]

Its funny how your FG specific content is so applicable to other games I just start linking your vids as my argument

[@cylondorado4582]

12:25 Thanos, alive on a pixel: "You should have gone for the head."

[@depictiongames9758]

“Can jp walk into the foreground or background of the battlefield?” *terry has entered the chat*

[@tswrangle1000]

I only learned the bedman matchup, now I’m in the sin corner grinder

[@Derodek]

I always worry about playing overpowered or top tier characters because of that level of salt. I pick up Nagoriyuki cause I think he's cool and played Sin in Rev2, and then whoops he's one of the best characters. I decide to learn Honda before even the tiniest footage of him comes out, and now he's reviled. I can't win! But Sajam helps me say "fuck the haters" and just play what I want to, so that's neato.

[@realauradude]

"No one wants to win a fair fight."

[@AggroSZN]

2:45 everyone prays for peace, but none can let go of the chains of salt.

[@nickthegun]

For me, I can tell SF6 is well balanced because pretty much every character has something that makes me say 'this is bullshit' when I get hit with it

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

To me it's the initial reaction, then like a GOOD salty man I'd jump to the training room and spend like a good 3 minutes seeing what (insert bs thing here)'s property is Like as a temporary ryu main it legit felt like Jamie got to hit me for free, then I realized that a lot of his moves come out face but have decent end-lag I can dp

[@mopey1797]

In my opinion I feel SF6 is one of the most balanced fighting games I've played on launch. I've been having a great time with it.

[@tylermorrison6335]

The whole "carried" thing has always bothered me because everybody has to pick a character to play the game, inherently. It's not like a traditional sport where it's purely about athletic ability. a fighting game requires both your skills as a player and the power of the character you're playing, no matter who that is.

[@beam5655]

Picking a character is part of playing the game. it is impossible to be carried imo because your opponent can pick the same character as you. That isn't to say balance doesn't matter though. Also basically all sports require skill as well as athleticism, even stuff like sprinting and jumping.

[@WellingtonSilva-kk8pe]

Char makes out of pools in EVO, it was viable against a good number of people.

[@MrDJKAIKAI]

I main JP and now I’m ranking up my other characters and I just can’t relate to these other players saying he is abysmal to fight. Every time I face one they do some of the most unsafe and risky things in neutral you can just jump over an full punish him, then he’s in the corner u bait 1 amnesia and win. It’s funny how JP “breaks the rules” when he’s actually TEACHING you the rules of the game, perfect parry fireballs, maybe don’t press on oki if they have meter, JUMP command grabs. All of these tools JP even says vocally what the move is gonna be in the gameplay so u could do it blind. He’s sorta like how Honda is a tutorial for perfect parrying headbutts but with projectiles. I honestly just think people don’t understand parrying in this game at the end of the day because even Ken got neutered by it in Gamers8

[@JoeRahl]

Seriously? People are still complaining about JP? Hold parry during OD amnesia or lvl 2. 2040 dmg if they throw, free refill of your drive gauge if they don't. No mix-up. It's 2% more damage than Ryu's reversal, 1\2 bar of DG dmg more, and oki(which JP can get from the combos if your hit in a mix). No 50% dmg combo. Everyone else you ALWAYS take dmg when it hits. JP's you can end up in a better position(DG wise) than before it hit, lol. Only time I try to defend against it is if I'm under 20% health. Take the throw.

[@JBasilix]

The only reason I hate obviously strong characters (or at least perceived as such) is because everybody starts to play them which leads to a less interesting tournament watch. That is one of the reasons I do not like to watch UMvC3 tournaments. It´s basically the same 5 characters in a game where you have 6 characters in every match. Yes tournaments aren´t just about the characters but for me it´s just not enjoyable to see the same characters with the same playstyles every second match of if not more in top 16.

[@suplexthetrain]

Guy like me shits on every character. Even my own. We're all carried.

[@BrokenWingman]

The problem with tier lists in general is that it's largely a numbers thing: Frames, damage, hitboxes, etc. And sure, if you imagine the game being played "perfectly", or "optimally", at all times, then you can rank characters like that. But so much of fighting games, or any competitive game, is a players mood, mindset, adaptability, etc. Things you can't really quantify. And sometimes a player just *gets it* with a "low-tier"; they understand the rhythm of the character. Like Snake Eyes's Zangief, or Amsa's Yoshi in ssbm.

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

All I heard was facts, all top tiers are bullshit, in fact all the characters are bullshit fuck this game, can't wait to see more of your guile to master on stream I love watching sf6.

[@CamFGC]

People just don't bother learning anymore

[@henryl6441]

I’m mad about blanka because I don’t know wtf is going on whenever I fight him

[@kaemonbonet4931]

This isnt a problem for gief mains, we just say, "nicely done!" and wait for the next lvl 3.

[@Suspinded]

It's just the Modern discourse condensed into a single character. People in my group were whining about Modern making it easy, and I said "Then play Modern if it's so much of an advantage" and they tend to shut up.

[@theFizzzzzz]

I’m glad you made a video about this. People complaining about their characters being bad or how good other characters are can just really be fun-draining and toxic. I think the strive community is so bad at this, and Street Fighter might be even worse at this now than with Luke in SFV I feel. I think CapCom will patch the game eventually and make the game more balanced since I do think Ken and jp are real good, but I don’t know how close the community is to being able to know that they are good and not complain and whine about it constantly.

[@theultamateg4314]

I love this right here. People who have huge ego’s and have to have a parade for them when they win and a mob against another player when they lose. They want the system to change. I’ve seen that repeatedly. Instead of taking it on the chin they rather sit and complain about the character they lost to. That’s the privilege of an ego.

[@lunafoxfire]

My advice to Ken and JP players is to just own it. SF6 is balanced enough that your skill matters infinitely more than your character. In Strive I picked Ram day 1 because "cool sword girl with dog (wholesome)" and vibed with her midrange control plus strong pressure. Turns out she's pretty good, and a lot of people downright hate her. That bothered me for a while, but ultimately now I just find it kind of amusing how universally disliked she is. All that matters to me is that I vibe with her, and that in the two years I've been playing Strive I have learned SO MUCH about fighting games and improved a thousand times over. And there are still players out there a thousand times better than me that beat my ass, which means I still have an incredible amount to learn.

[@ElSandwich777]

I think about this video a lot. As a strictly solo player I can often go multiple seasons of a game enjoying how certain characters work and loving their movesets, only to leave the game to play something else, return a season later after new DLC characters have dropped and being massively confused as to why their movesets have changed or their damage outputs are different. I have zero say in whether or not these characters change and because balance is necessary for online, but not offline and I do not participate in the multiplayer scene I have no notice WHEN they are changing. It’s all so confusing sometimes. By far the worst and most frustrating was Dragonball FighterZ as I learned quick nothing I used to rely on moves wise would actually work anymore and while the majority has been positive, the movesets of certain characters have changed so much they are almost unrecognizable.

[@Weebfox]

My brother in christ you are picking the character If someone is so broken and easy to win with then play them yourself And if you don't like them and that's why you don't want to play them, that's a choice you are making yourself. Let people play what they want to

[@xeniamorph]

Gotta love the contrast between JP and Peacock *crocodile dundee voice* "That's not a zoner, THAT'S a zoner."

[@robpires9407]

"Respect my rules, I am dooing PERFECTLY TIMED counters that are whiffing but JP is just spamming paterms" Sombody from the dark syde

[@chkmte1304]

Moste has got to be stopped at this point, that thumbnail has me crying from laughter

[@TheTDA]

Bro, this thumbnail is truly next level, haha

[@noctantis]

That dekillsage clip is one of the greatest of all time. Happy to see it again lmao

[@gfdf511]

People forget the character you play is just another facet of fighting games. If you are locked tf in and make the right decisions, (Snakeeyez for example) it wont matter what character you play. But the higher you climb, your opponents are presumably equally locked in. So the weaknesses and strengths become accentuated.

[@gfdf511]

When you let character strength and weaknesses dominate your psyche, you stop playing the person on the other side of the screen; now you're fighting Ken. Not Dunkmastrr5567 who doesnt know how to anti-air. But you're too busy to notice

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

Snake Eyes wins a cup and nobody bats an eye. JP wins a set, *and everyone loses their minds!*