Supro Blues King | Why Does It Have a Death Wish?

[@jburdsinfuse]

After watching dozens of your videos on amp repairs, I've decided to spend my time, money, and energy on getting better at acoustic.

[@PsionicAudio]

Thus spake the Sausage King of Chicago.

[@davidgunther1282]

I agree. It’s like no one makes a quality amp. Although he gives Vox’s AC15 a Luke-warm review….

[@ChristopherDowning]

@@davidgunther1282 I think the reality is players just don't want to spend the kind of money we did back in the 1960s. I had one of the first Marshalls - like the first 10 or so - and it was expensive. I seem to remember £135. And that's £3500 now. All the gear was expensive. My Rickenbacker was £159 so that comes out at £4100. So the complaint about amps is more to do with getting used to paying way less than we used to. Psion is way more complimentary about Friedman - but there yer go - Friedman does a 40 watt amp like that Marshall for £2999. Fender Twin £2000. Those Hot Rods he beats up on are 1/3rd of the price of the Friedman. Whatcha expect?

[@davidgunther1282]

@@ChristopherDowning They didn't make inexpensive amps back in the 60s?

[@bootlegapples]

​@@PsionicAudio I think a Zarathustra reference but "Sausage King of Chicago"? lol,Ferris Bueller too?

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

8:30 good point and well put.

[@jumboscrimps6198]

How can you not love this guy and Brad’s guitar garage? Where do I send my hard earned money for an Excalibre 15? Who is gonna put Brad’s tube PCB in my blues jr.? These are important life questions that need answers.

[@PsionicAudio]

Thanks man. I'm trying to get the Ex 15 supplier issues worked out. It's been a crazy few years. Put it this way - the guitar I ordered from Yamaha in March might ship this coming January. If Yamaha can't control the supply chain... I'm trying.

[@jumboscrimps6198]

@@PsionicAudio Knowledge and honesty are rare commodities in this medium and in a disposable world. You guys have it in spades my man. I patiently await.

[@jumboscrimps6198]

@@kennethc2466 Is Lyle’s bench fee on the high end? Yes, it is. But you get what you pay for even though I’m sure there are qualified techs charging lesser bench fees. The inverse is also true. You’re comparisons on pay scale are disparate. A marine EE is gov’t property or in someone else's employ (not sure if you are saying Marine Corps or marine industry, I'm assuming the former. Same either way) and he works for himself. Not commenting on who has more knowledge. I think you already know, since your browsing an amp tech’s channel, that typically the bench fee is rolled into repair cost if you choose to have said repairs done. I would gladly put any of my tube amps on Lyle’s or another trustworthy tech’s bench if I couldn’t chase down the issue and I have had to do that once over the years. It almost sounds like you have an axe to grind for some reason or that you think he’s ripping people off. No need to take personal what some guy charges evaluating amp repair costs. He doesn’t even mention his bench fee in this video. I know he does in one, but I think it’s the recent Line 6 Flextone repair. Remember, not everyone has the knowledge or skills you may have and need to pay someone for help. Maybe that’s why you see it as excessive.

[@dylanapivor3743]

So glad to have found this channel. Anyone even so much as thinking of buying a modern amp needs to watch your videos

[@goodun2974]

Since you played a snippet of Dust in the Wind, I'll tell you a funny story that Steve Morse told me about his brief time as a member of Kansas. Just for a change of pace, the band had arranged a tongue-in-cheek rap version of Dust in the Wind, which they were having fun performing, and the audiences had seemed to be enjoying it, until one night when they finished the song and up high in the stands a young woman was heard to be crying hysterically. "I mean she was *wailin'*", said Steve, "and everybody could hear it". After that, they went back to playing it the way it was arranged in the record.

[@nedim_guitar]

What the fuck?

[@polkatronixx]

Cool story, bro.

[@ChristopherDowning]

Reminds me of the phrase "What Could Possibly Go Wrong?" Well they didn't expect that happening!

[@goodun2974]

@@ChristopherDowning , I can kind of see the band's point of view on this. Who really wants to be essentially married to what has become an iconic song for you, and having to play it the same way night after night, year after year ---- especially when it's a somewhat maudlin, literally "cue the violins" song like Dust in the Wind? I'm not saying that a band should necessarily go the Bob Dylan route and never perform a song the same way twice to the point where it might be almost unrecognizable to your fans, but it's certainly gotta be tempting to have a couple of songs that you can rearrange, or change up the instrumentation, in order to keep it fresh and alive.

[@RoadKingTeleStrat54]

When I wake up in the morning, I believe I'll dust my socket. Seriously, this is a very informative channel, and exposes the shortcuts taken these days by so-called "quality" amp makers. We pay our hard-earned money, and deal with the "they all do that" excuse. BS.

[@CarySagady]

Love the video! I spent some time last year working at an amp repair business. Your comments about the construction of this amp being junk so hit home with me. I worked on new generation Marshalls, Ampegs, Fenders, etc. and they ALL have the weak construction techniques used by Supro. They are almost un-repairable and will never stand the test of time like vintage equipment. When I opened up a 1960s Fender (any model), it was almost a holy moment. I felt a reverence to the older construction techniques. Modern circuit boards, components and hardware are just crap. Almost bought one these amps...your words brought me full circle. You renewed my love for my MusicMaster Bass amp. Thank you.

[@ChristopherDowning]

Cheap. See my comments about vintage amps actually costing by todays values £3000 but everyone wants an amp for 1/2 or 1/3rd as much. Can't be done.

[@kenk4555]

I have a B52 AT212 that I’m repairing and using as a learning experience. Your videos are helping me learn new ways to diagnose the various issues I’m encountering with this amp. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@semajdis]

Here's hoping that others follow your example and bring honesty back into fashion.

[@khillsy4489]

Your philosophical views on consumer/manufacturer relations is spot on. 👌

[@rainham1]

thank you for doing that kind sir for that client and understanding the world we now find our self in. i loved my 66 supro vibroverb purchased with a 66 tele and sad to see reality now .. makes me feel lucky and sad at the same time for where we are.

[@harrystephens6429]

I really like my Blues King 12, bought used when the Delta King came out. Maybe I just got a good one. I only use it at home, so it isn't subject to abuse, other than the signal coming from my guitar.

[@gtrguy17]

Can't wait to see your own brand of amps! I've learned so much as a player about tube amps from your channel. God bless you sir.

[@ChristopherDowning]

How about going down the Keeley route - take someone else's build and mod them to make them right? That route did Keeley no harm and all they had to do was soldering and sourcing very inexpensive components. The obvious one - Hot Rods.

[@eoms113]

Excellent video. I will think twice now buying a Supro Blues King.

[@mikemyles4916]

Such shoddy workmanship. Reviewers indeed should evaluate that as part of any review. Great video!

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Great song Dust in the Socket

[@ecossette4488]

Thanks you so much for sharing this. Look like I will think twice about buying a supro.

[@dbelche2]

We're all just dust in the socket

[@brucehayes7251]

Just another thankyou for your wisdom and honesty. It's a pity the manufacturers of just about everything feel the same way. I have always tried to repair,or get repaired,and retain my possessions. It seems even though we are willing to pay for quality it won't be provided from a BIG manufacturer,be it whitegoods ,cars or our not so necessary toys. It is sad that products aren't made to last,nor operate to full capacity for prolonged periods. They used to be.....and I'm only 51,Ive owned vehicles ,tools and appliances that were made in the 1960's,still functioning with maintenance today. It's a choice to provide sub standard product, information or service,as you know,it's just as easy to go above and beyond.much regards

[@johntompson174]

I work in the audio industry and was looking for a cheap guitar amp and one of my field reps is a territory rep for Supro. So I bought one of these at dealer cost -- it's not worth it at any price. I thought "Golly gee whiz what a kool little amp" until I plugged it in and found it to be both muddy and brittle. It's also not service friendly as to change lightbulbs...I mean tubes...you have to remove the chassis and it's awkward if you don't have a real bench. A really good treble booster pedal couldn't solve all the mud, and changing the preamp tube to a 12AT7 only darkened the trails on my analog delay and didn't reduce the brittleness. Maybe the tolerances are so uneven that you could get one that sounds decent, but mine does not.

[@UncleDansVintageVinyl]

Best amp reviewer on KZbin. Thank you.

[@MarkKunie]

I had the bk 12. Was amazing. It just died. Had extended warranty and not fixable. Glad. I ended up getting a Marshall DSL40cr. But that supro was sweet won’t Gretsch

[@LarsonGuitarPlayer]

You played Dust in the wind by Kansas. That song made me wanna play acoustic and made me buy an Ovation. ❤

[@johnwilliamson467]

Well well such a good choose of a tune to play related to the point you where makings🤣

[@gben2457]

Lyle, that was awesome. Thanks.

[@williekenk]

Bummed but also glad that I found this video. Recently can’t across a Delta King 10 and I loved the sound. Was going to add the DL12 to my shortlist to try, but now I may rethink that. I can certainly afford a little more on amp. Would have been happy with the price, but wouldn’t be happy with the work involved.

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

Yes, even on the " un-biased " internet editorial revolves around advertising 99% of the time.

[@Personalnadir]

Grabbed a Supro Thunderbolt reissue at an auction a while a go. One of the speaker cable spades sheared in transit, the preamp tube was faulty and the cab needed tightening up, all in a new amp. Lucky to have a well regarded tech an hour away. Love the look of the Supro’s but wonder if I need to think about replacing it for long term quality of life after watching this

[@scottdrake5159]

Commenting to help with the visibility mainly, since it's self-evident that you're right about reviews. Kills me. They spend some time right out of the box (even give the manufacturer/trademark payer/etc. the benefit of the doubt if it _doesn't_ work out the box), play a bit, and if there's a whiff of dissatisfaction among the hoi polloi readers, they attach short, professionally played and recorded clips with pro gear and say, "listen to how amazing this literally off-the-line amp sounds when stacked up to more expensive options!" 1000 U.S. is a big chunk of change, the regionally touring musician not excluded. Having a few repair skills can tip the odds in your favor a little bit, particularly memory of patterns that all amps share in the power amp and sundry analog sections, but even that's changing (though having some skill with how FPGAs and HDLs work is now becoming a similar thing.) Digression aside, yeah, it's criminal, and it's hard to feel bad about giants falling on "hard" times like Fender, etc., when it's the people that design and build the amps that count, not the badge. Would I feel sorry for this particular configuration of C-levels and board members of a handful of manufacturers that really design and license equipment, if people like me succeed in putting tools in people's hands? It's hard to. But does it hurt, having that emotional attachment that I admit that I have to some of those badges? Yeah, it does, can't help it. Can't help it, but at the same time I'll share every trick and technique I can, and where to look for answers (link to your channel included.) They want to build amps that self-destruct after 2 years? Then I don't feel bad showing someone how to thwart it. (Sorry for the thesis.)

[@wbfaulk]

So the pots are made from pot metal? Seems appropriate. What else would you make them from? Input jack metal? Capacitor metal?

[@PsionicAudio]

Steel. Brass. Aluminum. Not powder compressed junk. Ie, pot metal.

[@timmyjohnslats]

Glad I bought my 1 watt Delta king for basically half price. Sounds good. Just expensive to pay full price.

[@gamingwithmrgvil3511]

I own one of these that I bought on a closeout sale and so far it's held up well. I guess my question is with all these amps being made cheaply today are there any amps that aren't considered shoddy throw away amps that don't cost a fortune? I was watching another channel a while back where a tech was going into a boss katana amp and basically the repair was going to cost more than the amp was worth and he explained that boss katana amps although they sound good are throw away amplifiers. Now when I buy an amplifier I don't consider that purchase a throwaway purchase but I guess if I have a problem with it and I take it to a tech that's what it's going to be. Where is the quality for a reasonable price?

[@dwaynejessome1728]

Thank You!

[@bornblindgames]

So I just bought one of these Delta king 12's used and am wondering what sort of issues people have seen with them. It seems like a solid little amp...

[@Leel3ones89]

You're right about the power and stand-by switches being poor quality. The power switch broke on mine. They sent me a new 1 free but my repair man said he would probably see me again....

[@RustyRaceHorse]

Thank you for you guidance.

[@andychoi5908]

Hi. Just became a huge fan of your work and channel. I'm sleep deprived now from watching your videos nonstop. 😂 Super curious what you think of Supro Keeley Custom 12 combo... Thanks!

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

Yay, another everything-is-a-potential-problem amp!

[@PsionicAudio]

My wrist is killing me from the Supro and another crap amp I worked on earlier today, so I'm kaput for now. About to run and get some wine. Tomorrow I shall reward myself with a JMI AC4. And I have a McIntosh in the queue. But as awful as this Supro is, it's now much less likely to break in expensive ways for its owner. So I feel good about that, even if I want to add "sucks" to the logo.

[@goodun2974]

@@PsionicAudio , I'll cross my fingers that the McIntosh ---- which model? ---- you'll be working on is unmolested or relatively so, and not recapped from a "kit" with poor instructions by someone with minimal electronics experience. I got that MA230 I've been working on mostly sorted out, but it had been badly butchered. The second-biggest hassle about working on McIntosh amps is the weight, due to even their solid-state stuff having output transformers; but the biggest hassle is all the sharp metal edges that dig into your fingers! Best to wear light gloves. Once you remove the bottom, there's never any easy way to get your fingers underneath them the chassis, and the fragile faceplate is floppy and poorly secured. Propping them up sideways requires strategic shimming with blocks of wood. If it's a tuner or a receiver and the silkscreening on the glass is dirty, you cannot hit the lettering with any type of liquid or you will take all the lettering right off the glass. Try a dry, clean silicone cloth, like you would use on eyeglasses, or clean around the lettering with distilled water. Windex will remove silkscreening from the metal panels; but Never- Dull works well. PS, the MA-230 has Sprague couplets in the solid-state preamp/tone control circuits!

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

@@PsionicAudio I've got a Domino Bass head in the queue. Unfortunately someone drilled the top of the panel for a pilot light. Might see if I can plug and patch that up a little.

[@gph2193]

I looked into new Supro when the blues king came out. Decided they want too much $ for what I see inside. Bought a one control super apricot pedal, run into a clean jcm 900 combo. A nice fake supro. 👌

[@xeff3280]

What company would you consider a good producer of amps marketed at the same price point as this Supro?

[@waynecorners6]

Quality aside it sounds great to me.

[@aristidesvillegas7167]

Hi bro I have this amplifier and it started with noise recently. But valves are fine. Do you have a clue what can be?

[@cuinoz3569]

I was considering this amp but now like many others I am re-thinking after watching this video. Most of us do not have the knowledge such as yourself and are thankful for the honesty. Would you have any recommendations for a low wattage (bedroom) amp that offers an excellent clean channel and will work with pedals (if desired) for around 1k? Thank you for sharing.

[@RustyRaceHorse]

Disappointed you don’t like supro… or the current company. What other choice do i have…? What else do you recommend?

[@willardpritchard5186]

So tell us how you really feel about "Supro" lol. You just saved me 600 dollars, so thank you. If you could suggest an inexpensive tube amp that won't cause me or a amp tech grief, I'd greatly appreciate it. Again, thank you.

[@PsionicAudio]

Look for my Amps Under $500 and $1000 videos.

[@tbone2451]

I’ve looked at this amp , didn’t make the purchase. Would you say avoid Supro ?

[@leeasbury7273]

My same amp has a heavy static, and after a few minutes the volume drops way down, but only when I turn up the Master knob. If I turn the Master up the worse the problem gets. But it doesn't affect the Volume knob at all. All static comes from the Master. Any ideas what the problem is? I've replaced with brand new tubes but still have the problem.

[@geobasket8295]

Excellent video and keep up the good work Lyle! On another note, what is your opinion on amp kits and do you recommend any Fender blackface amp kits? Thanks!

[@PsionicAudio]

Kits are as good as the instructions (some are really awful) and the assembler (I've seen some real nightmares but I'm sure many do it fairly well). Maybe I should get some kit instructions and point out the mistakes. I'm a Mojotone dealer and get along well with the guys there, but their kit instructions are all over the map. And unless you already know an awful lot you would have no idea that the instructions are flawed. Sorry, pet peeve. Remember that when you adjust for inflation a '67 Twin Reverb was a $3700 amp. Same scale for all the old Fenders. They were never inexpensive, and now people think they can make one for $1k or less. You always get what you pay for.

[@geobasket8295]

@@PsionicAudio Alright, thank you for your input, I appreciate it. I think if you ever get a well known kit amp on your bench (like a Mojotone); or if you ever decide to make a video on kit amps, it would be great content!

[@erajad]

@@PsionicAudio "...if you ever decide to make a video on kit amps, it would be great content!" Concur heartily with geobasket's sense of things here. (Would be a long way down your "to-do/idea" list for your channel! ... might there be an "amps under $2K" [or some other reasonable threshold] in the works?)

[@zingbopdelux]

Thanks! Really insightful ... a valuable assessment of the current malaise in amp manufacturing ... BTW, can I ship an amp to you for repair, or do I need to book an appointment/timeslot, for you to work on it? I did email you, but I have had no response just yet, so I figured you have been too busy to take in new work projects ... let me know if I can ship my amp to your address listed on your website. Thank you!

[@PsionicAudio]

Thanks. I'm not accepting much right now while I work through a backlog. And that old address is invalid. I need to remember to remove it. Please do not ship anything without prior arrangements. I hope to open the gates again soon - the supply chain disruptions have been really problematic.

[@zingbopdelux]

​@@PsionicAudio Okay, that is great to know, Thank you! ... I'll wait to hear when you are accepting new work projects ...

[@zingbopdelux]

... I have a '58 Gibson Skylark that needs repair. After watching so many of your very insightful videos, I feel I can't really send it to anyone else ...

[@erajad]

@@zingbopdelux Lyle has been known to recommend trustworthy techs he knows who are based in other regions ... perhaps there's one near(er) you?

[@williambock1821]

Speaking of nasty old tubes, I need to replace a set of old 6973’s in a Valco clone I built. I’d like to avoid spending a car payment on real 6973’s and I haven’t seen great reviews of the new EHX 6973’s. So I’m wondering if 6CZ5’s pose any problems as a substitute Im not aware of other than bridging the 1&8 screen grid pins on the sockets. The voltages in the amp should be fine for them. Do you have any experience using them? Thanx!

[@JEmilioJNava]

Every amp review video on YT should include a link to this other video ... information is power and most people craving for a tube amp appear to be a sheep inside the wolf's den.

[@ramilrodriguez8340]

Hello. I saw one of your videos where you fixed a fender tremolo tik. Can’t find that video. Can you help me? Thanks.

[@PsionicAudio]

Usually just putting a 10nF 630V cap across the roach does the trick. Viewing a fender on a bench (tubes down) with the rear panel towards you, the cap goes across the two leftmost connections on the roach. Power off/drain caps first.

[@ramilrodriguez8340]

@@PsionicAudio thank you. So basycally from the 10M resistor to ground.

[@mikebarnard2689]

08:58-09:11 Says it all.

[@robertpowell7319]

The bottom line lately is more important to get it as low as possible and put cheap parts in. I understand that saving 17 cents on a switch adds up over time…. but COME ON… we pay premium prices, so we should get premium equipment. Oh well. I’ll continue to vote with my wallet.

[@voxpathfinder15r]

I take it you’re not a fan? Fortus dumped his black magick in favor of magnatone twilighter amplifier. Apart from build quality- was wondering if magnatone is making a superior amplifier tone wise over Supro?

[@PsionicAudio]

Current Supro is junk. Magnatone is laughably better.

[@luispaxtor2680]

Agree, for $500 plus this amp has issues. Poor quality. I am extremely dissapointed with my Supro Delta King 10. I am having issues when using the reverb because when using reverb it causes distortion.

[@RustyRaceHorse]

Life is too short…

[@bransonmifsud5019]

Hey Lyle, I know your experience with both Zinky and the Chinese Supros has, quite frankly, been awful. I’m curious if you’ve had a chance to open up any of the Supros that are “assembled in New York”. My dad bought a reissue Coronado, and I got a used 1600 Supreme reissue for practically nothing used about a year ago, but I haven’t had it looked at by a tech yet (thankfully no issues) and haven’t looked myself, since I would have no idea what I’m looking. I love the sound of that amp dearly, but I have no idea as to it’s longevity. If you haven’t, do you think you’d ever consider taking in amps and do a video-dissection of them, even if they don’t have problems, for documentation purposes like Trogly does with guitars. Hope all is well, I know you’re pretty busy. Stay healthy.

[@briansugent7455]

hey yeah I’d like to second that emotion ! and the funny thing is that I own the Coronado AND the 1600 ! I use the Coronado semi-professionally and I’ve had zero problems with it in the six years I’ve had it … and yeah ok , I don’t ‘know’ about the build quality like others do , but the Supro looked pretty good inside when I poked around it - most important for me , of course , is that the Coronado is almost perfect sound wise … well ok it looks pretty great too

[@aubinvanns6632]

I'm no amp tech but I've also had a 1600 reissue since 2017, no issues yet, and can share some info that implies the quality is higher in those US-assembled models: Rubycon electrolytics, metal Switchcraft jacks (no locking washers 😆), Wima FKP4 film caps and you can quite easily remove the PCB with all wires still connected to access the bottom of the board.

[@luthiervandros]

I know a guy named, “Dustin Nguyen”. He’s very aware of the song. So is his dad 😂😂😂😂

[@glennselwitz1377]

All we are is dust in the socket.....

[@nedim_guitar]

I love the title of this video. Am amp that has a death wish! 😂

[@TheJudgeWm]

👍👍👍👍

[@danb2709]

I am getting massive AvE vibes from this video.

[@tedmich]

Man you name should be Truthle!

[@retread1083]

Did I hear right? You're drinking instant coffee now? Say it ain't so!

[@PsionicAudio]

Hell no. Never.

[@PsionicAudio]

I drink coffee. Not cappuccino.

[@retread1083]

Glad to hear that. Musta been some knob starting a rumor for shits and giggles.

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

Lol.

[@joeyguitarlo]

I ordered mine with the two-year extended warranty. Always worth having it with modern shit technology.

[@Stratisfied22]

So who's making a decent amp these days? Seems everything is crap unless you spend a boatload.

[@NotoriousFunk]

In other words they should change the name in super shit... (thanks for the video)

[@rob3568]

...all we are is duuuust in a socket...

[@nathanchamness1778]

Heh, I found it highly amusing. Truely got a good chuckle. Thanks Lyle, from a guy in Cordova that you don't know.

[@elwrongo]

not that inexpensive. $AU700 in Australia for a 1 watt amp

[@misterknightowlandco]

So what you’re saying is either spend the money on vintage fender’s, vox’s, and Marshall’s or get an old peavey bandit and some high end pedals to try and make it sound decent. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@PsionicAudio]

Well no, there are a lot of good choices in between those price ranges. This is just not one of them.

[@garypannone7755]

Not to mention most of the reviewers get a free amp. Hmm worse than a blues Jr.

[@weschilton]

And they all use the same lie of a disclaimer: I wasn't paid for this review, my opinions are my own. BULL$%& you got a free amp/pedal/guita/camera/whatever... THAT is payment!

[@garyp5522]

@@weschilton Really sad. In fact one reviewer said he did not want to do a review on a spark amp because they did not want to pay him. Then said he usually gets $600.00 for a review. And I believe that was the only thing he ever gave a bad review of.

[@AJMjazz]

A.T.D. - Attention To Detail. If the amp sounds as good as you say, at the price point they are selling for, and given your logical reasoning for someone making the investment into said amp, the few extra $$$ in better parts and workmanship won't hurt their profit margins if it gains a loyal customer and good word of mouth advertising. It all boils down to A.T.D.

[@bbmade]

Supro was better when Bruce Zinky owned the brand.

[@ChadAbdulJabar]

One sign of being a loser is taking things personally that did not need to be taken personally.