Supro Delta King | The Owner Got Lucky - Will He Know That?

[@muhrvis]

Thanks for the cool look inside the Supro. I am sorry that silly people get angry and call you names -- your expertise is valuable and worth every cent.

[@cpfs936]

In my old line of work, we used to tell people who thought we were pricey that, "You're not paying for the time as much as the decades of knowing what NOT to do!" Unfortunately, craftsmanship and expertise DON'T come cheap, and our disposable society undervalues both.

[@maxpeck4154]

Well said on that last statement.

[@PedalPoopers]

Sure thing....

[@alexdeleon7135]

Another episode where you demonstrated the practical reasons for a bench fee. I hope it brings appreciation to the issues faced by any tech to disassemble, inspect, and deduce the problem, call the owner; only to have him/her decide it's more than they want to spend. Then the tech has to reassemble the item. Your tie has value, so the bench fee is indeed justified.

[@jimshomestudio]

I think it’s worth your bench fee just for the check up and exam. Diagnostics. Peace of mind, confidence in the equipment. If you lived nearby you would see each one of my amplifiers and rack gear pieces at some point. I really value your service, and I watch all of your videos although I do not know what you’re doing technically. I figure I’ll learn little by little. Thank you, that’s invaluable.

[@robinstokes5179]

You do right. So many people think (& say) "its only a 5 min job" (it rarely is) In which case why didn't they do it themselves?! Because they don't know how,. but just expect practical people to do it for them for nothing. People can get badly electrocuted with unsafe gear. A well known French singer died onstage this year because of it. Hopefully the owner of this amp appreciated the work you put into checking & fixing it. I got a used one of these amps (15w) as it was half decent sounding for casual playing & the odd gig as it's an easy to carry, handy "suitcase" amp. Its not a patch on my 70's fender Pro Rev' but that weighs a ton & is too loud / too much bother for small events. I was a little disappointed to see the internals when I got the Supro but it was cheap. I would prefer an old proper Princeton but they are now over 10 times the price I paid for the Supro & I don't gig enough to justify that leap. It's a cheap tool, with all that implies! What is the old saying? Buy Cheap Buy Twice! Caveat Emptor!

[@kirkdecker6228]

Again, another great vid. Thanks for sharing!

[@ronj9448]

"Everything is obvious when you know the answer" - which is why someone might get upset on a simple repair.

[@simonpoblete]

I don't think you need to defend yourself at all, and if you sound a little bit defensive is completely understandable. I got myself into tube amps without knowing what it was needed for me to keep them running, and I guess a lot of people do the same. We just know how to plug them in and play. I learned through the years how to perform basic mantainance out of curiosity and necessity, and now I know that the knowledge and experience you have is worth every penny. If the customer hasn't been through that learning process, of course they are going to complain because they do not know all the work that is involved. Love your videos. If I were in the States I would take my amps to you for sure.

[@danstringer7610]

Thanks!

[@PsionicAudio]

Thanks!

[@Shiloh7377]

From my perspective, your work is immaculate, top notch and of the highest quality, As well as highly knowledgeable. I want you to service my 1993 Marshall, I will be in contact soon.

[@Gtrtech]

Some people don't take into account that they are paying for knowledge and experience.

[@digitalsketchguy7844]

You're a professional with vast experience. I would pay top dollar to know that my amp is working fine & isn't a potential fire hazard or shock killer.

[@xeff3280]

I have this exact amp. It makes a crackling noise with or without a guitar plugged in. I've replaced both the power and preamp tube but the problem was not solved. I'm all out of ideas

[@georgelackey622]

I'll just call you Al! Very good work as always, thanks.

[@sclinchy]

We don’t really pay someone like to for replacing the tube, we pay you because you know how to figure out that the tube needs to be replaced.

[@PittsS2C1]

No need to defend charging for your time. And, for what is worth from a business perspective, an up charge on parts is warranted as well. I love watching you work. That’s why I brought my FDR-Ri to you. Can’t wait.

[@vividvulpe9842]

I had one of the Blues Kings, and a week in from ordering it from Sweetwater, it failed while I was jamming on it. Item returned.

[@benlogan430]

It’s just like the auto shop. You gotta pay em to diagnose the issues. Time is money for everyone.

[@strangequark420]

Not only is your time worth the money you charge, the owner has no idea what's wrong with the amp when they bring it in for service. They are paying for someone else to figure out what's wrong. The analysis of the problem, even if the solution is simple, costs a premium. Had the owner simply swapped out the tube, they still would not have known if the tube was the underlying problem. You proved, in this case, that the amp is otherwise healthy. My check engine light is on right now. I'm taking the car to a mechanic on Monday, because I have no idea what to fix. And I will have no regrets, nor will I hold it against the mechanic, if I will have agreed to pay a fee for the diagnosis.

[@SirLoinMagroin]

You gotta' "pay to play" is a hard truth some just will never understand, I'm afraid. Personally, I always check any fuses, tubes, obvious stuff before I hand it over for repair even if it requires some disassembly although a novice should steer clear of any innards if they can't drain caps. Tube amps will all require service at some point. More so than solid-state imho. Just the nature of the beast. Most cheap modern tube amps are not manufactured for owner/tech ease of service. They are made to minimize production costs/maximize profits.

[@tbone2451]

Very informative. I’d appreciate your suggestions for a 10 watt tube amp .

[@fatamorgana4318]

Looking at a current model Delta King 12. What's your overall take on it? Worth the money? As I understand it, the line out can be used like a preamp to another amp and then use the DK master volume to blend the 2 amps. Is this correct?

[@williekenk]

His previous video on the Blues King was not very favorable, and I believe this line is quite similar. Unfortunately because I love the sound.

[@williekenk]

@@drsrsv8884 I haven’t taken Supro off my list because of these videos. But if it came down to a tie breaker, I’d keep this in mind.

[@williekenk]

@@drsrsv8884 He has a pretty logical approach to what he explains. I don’t think he has a Midas touch attitude. PCB tube amps have known issues. The best option is pretty much always a well laid out hand-wired design. But that’s significantly more expensive. It’s good to know the pros and cons of every design. Just like sound, everyone will have their own preferences and deal breakers.

[@williekenk]

@@drsrsv8884 That’s the plan! I’ve been trying stuff here and there to narrow down my list while I save up the cash. I plan to take a PTO day and spend some time at the shop comparing a few options head to head. And Supro holds a solid slot towards the top of that list.

[@fatamorgana4318]

Where are you based? I'm 100% sure it's not where I live but you know it's worth a try. Wish I had a tech like yourself local. Thanks for the info.

[@weschilton]

You're absolutely right to charge for your time.

[@innocentoctave]

Part of the problem is that people want cheap equipment, and at the moment of purchase they don't care to ask whether that is a reasonable desire. They never seem to ask themselves just why Amp X is a quarter of the price of Amp Y: they quickly assume that the manufacturer of Amp Y is a rip-off merchant. In fact, one of the reasons that you are saving money on the initial purchase is that Amp X is going to run up to the line of 'not economically repairable' much faster than Amp Y. Relatively simple problems can cost almost as much to fix on Amp X, once labour is taken into account, as it will cost to buy a new unit. That's part of the devil's bargain you make when you buy a cheap version of something you don't want to afford. I don't know what other people regard as the limit before they wouldn't have an inexpensive amp repaired: but for me, anything over 50% of the replacement cost is likely a no. We are all supposed to be adults here. It's not the manufacturer's fault that you won't pay enough for the amp for it to be designed to be readily serviceable, or to use anything but the cheapest parts and labour. It's not the tech's fault that he has to keep a roof over his head.

[@goodun2974]

How DID we ever get by before blue, or green, painter's tape was invented?🤔🙂. I actually have a pair of vintage forceps with rubber- coated ends, made specifically for pulling small tubes.

[@nonemlinus]

Awh dang. Just bought this amp. Reverb is addicting. Well, should I take it to an amp tech to future proof or just let it ride? The new Delta King is using the old Blues King board…?…Awh danggit…

[@MrMersh-ts7jl]

May i ask what your gourly rate is?

[@ScottyBrockway]

Yeah I get people who become mad at my bench fee too for pedals repairs, but as you say, time is money. They are paying for my expertise. If the jacks just need cleaned and the battery clip replaced then its the bench fee+cost of the clip+20% to cover my cost+tax+shipping of the part. I don't know why people expect you to fix their stuff for nothing or for free. Also you might check that the local shop doesn't stick extra fees on top unbeknownst to you, I've had that happen too.

[@kennieminski7080]

My amp powers on and makes strange sounds too, but that's just me trying to play.

[@Gagaryn.]

That yellow cap below C5 and C6 bares some evidence of heat - looks that way anyway on the video. Looks brown - presume that isn't just a shadow?

[@PsionicAudio]

Just shadow

[@Acornhouseworkshop]

I bet there’s twice as many components in that little Delta King as in my ‘66 Thunderbolt. (I know which one I prefer.)

[@raymaguire6389]

I’m new to guitar amps, what do you think of the long term reliability and/or serviceability of this model? Thanks for the great content!

[@PsionicAudio]

Thanks Ray. Nothing I saw in this inspires confidence. Unless it's viewed as a disposable "get a few years out of it" amp, avoid.

[@tonya4157]

I don't know if you'll see this, being a few months old, but I have a couple questions. First, is there an amp in this price range that you would recommend and not consider disposable? Forgot this is the 10" version so let's say $600 - 800. I really like the tone I've heard from these but I don't have that kind of money to spend every few years. :-) Secondly, what about amps like this that only use a single tube each for pre-amp and power. Is that a detriment, a problem? Thanks in advance if you do see this and have time to reply. I'm definitely enjoying watching and learning. I love that Les Paul.

[@FormerlyknownasT]

@@PsionicAudio Great show .. I'm new to the electric guitar myself .. just figuring things out, have you done any work on the Keeley Custom 12 Combo , they were supposed to be an upgrade on this model .

[@dlewtweentorla1210]

@@PsionicAudio What exactly doesn't inspire confidence? Seemed like the second you looked at the amp you were already writing it off. Is it because it's not point to point hand-wired? The bigger question is what then do you recommend in this price range? Not a whole lot of tube amps out there for around $450 bucks that have decent sound. Also, many that can't afford much more and want to have a tube amp around this size and features. Asking as a legit question since many channels like this dismiss amp's that are around this price and type, then praise some hand-wired boutique amps that are at least 5 times the price. Of course one gets what they pay for. For the money paid something like this certainly is a place to start that's affordable for beginners and those on a tight budget.

[@ronj9448]

@@dlewtweentorla1210 There is an old saying "Fast Cheap or Good, Choose Two" And you wrote "can't afford much more and want to have a tube amp around this size and features" that is wanting "Fast and Cheap" which drops Good from the conversation. I would suggest getting a solid state while saving up. Modern ones can sound great and are built like tanks. A lot of beginners drop interest in music so they don't have to worry about "tone".

[@shckltnebay]

Is there any issue running a vintage Fender without the reverb tank hooked up?

[@PsionicAudio]

In theory. That transformer is a little output transformer, and it needs a load. If you will never use reverb and want to disconnect the tank, pull the 12AT7 and put a shorting RCA plug in the reverb send jack.

[@shckltnebay]

@@PsionicAudio Was just asking because I run the amp with no reverb tank for testing and I ausumed for that short a time it wouldnt be an issue, I do make sure the reverb is all the way down

[@oldguy5381]

Good evening Lyle, hope all is well in your world.

[@dennisflock3958]

I'd be honored to have you work on any and all of my amps. However, Chicago to Memphis is a bit of a drive.

[@dodgeviper5647]

Man I wish I was able to have you has an amp tech but I do find that funny that you are getting called all sorts even though that's the business of the amp world

[@joolm4976]

Thx for sharing. Do you think a better tube upgrade worth the investment?

[@PsionicAudio]

Unless your current tubes are defective, wait and see if tube prices/availability improve in a few months.

[@joolm4976]

@@PsionicAudio Thank you very much for your answer.

[@sleekslush]

Sometimes people get it’s expensive and are just happy the problem is fixed .

[@ctcards2636]

What do you think of these Delta Kings ? Seem like a Blues Jr competitor. Do they have digital or spring reverb on these ?

[@dlewtweentorla1210]

Spring reverb. Yes they're a Blues Junior competitor, however different sound. They've been ranked very high in a number of magazines. If looking for a BJ would certainly check the 15W version out too (the Delta King comes in three versions ranging from 1 W to 15W). Have both the Blues Jr and the Delta King, like both for different reasons depending what I'm playing.

[@ctcards2636]

@@dlewtweentorla1210 I have a heavily modded Blues Jr that i really like, but this Supro seems to have a different tone that i cannot get out of the Blues Jr imho. Ill have to see if a used 15watt version comes near me. :-)

[@dlewtweentorla1210]

@@ctcards2636 also may want to check out the previous years Blues King. Biggest difference is it's all black tolex with no white stripes. Bonus is had an effects loop and can find the occasional one still hanging around new selling as old stock for a great price. Saw one a while back ,it came with the cover and foot switch for under $400, For that price was well worth a look

[@ctcards2636]

@@dlewtweentorla1210 Does the blues king sound like the delta ? Also is the reverb in the blues spring ? I really dont need the FX loop tho.

[@dlewtweentorla1210]

@@ctcards2636 Same amp, simply rebranded , yes has a spring reverb

[@georgestevens1502]

Wow. He's lucky he didn't get shocked to death being so blase with his hand over the top of the transformer.

[@JD-vx8gr]

Worth the watch. Thanks. Not that it matters, but I had two of the New Supros. Way overrated and not as good as a Fender Pro Jr

[@TeleCaster66]

Well, my Dual Tone is great and I liked it much better than the Fender 68 Deluxe reissue which I found horrible. Worst amp purchase in 40 years and I do like Fender amps normally. I find the Supro has an interesting tone and sounds great cranked up playing with a full band which is the real test of an amp. To each thier own.

[@LarsonGuitarPlayer]

I'd love to have a reliable amp tech (and a guitar tech) where I live. Would gadly pay for their service.

[@1Dougloid]

One night on the flight ramp the Turk told me "We get paid not for what we do, but what we know."

[@chokkan7]

The saddest part of this is that a competent tech could build something very close to the original from scratch, (albeit it in a different cab) for the same price as this...and it would last a lifetime...

[@JTHelectronics]

i dont know of anyone making handmade amps for $600, if they are they are selling at a loss

[@HashiAkitaPuppy]

@@JTHelectronics exactly.

[@_Planeview_]

I just got a new one on sale for 450, good luck buying the components or a kit for that price. Especially for a 15W 1x12. Not sure what’s sad about this anyways?

[@honkytonkinson9787]

@@JTHelectronics you’d have to build it yourself and it’d be small

[@danstringer7610]

Trying to decide between supro 1968kr and the fender hot Rod deluxe for a clean pedal platform. I’ve watched your videos on the HRDLX and have seen it’s flaws are the Supro’s better?

[@PsionicAudio]

No, avoid both.

[@danstringer7610]

@@PsionicAudio thanks for your valued input.

[@valueofnothing2487]

At least it's a real tube that heats up.

[@0512matt]

I have the Supro Delta King 12 and feel it is a fine amp for what it is. I wouldn't pay a tech to repair it tho. It's just not that kinda product IMO. If you can score a deal on one of these (never pay retail) they're worth checking out. Seen the Delta King 8 online rn for $250. Yea, it's made in China, has a PCB, and an OEM speaker. They're probably a hundred little things you could hate about this amp that justify an opinion of it being inferior. It's not a boutique amp tho! Can't judge it on those terms. For what it is, and what it costs, I'd recommend this amp. Prob not gonna be passing down to the grandkids tho 😜

[@PsionicAudio]

I don't hate on lower price range amps. As I've said in several videos, if you get an amp like this or a Blackstar or an Origin and you EXPECT to get a few years out of it then get something else, they're fine. I'm more irritated with more expensive amps that are just as disposable, like many modern Class D bass amps. Most owners don't seem to realize their $1000 wonder amp is just as disposable. And then they get mad at me. Not at tc Electronics etc.

[@sjschultz]

You do sound defensive. There's no need. For the small minority who call you names or who vehemently question your charges, just write it off to people who want something for little or nothing. Do they work for nothing? If questioned about the cost, I would just show an itemized bill for time and parts. This is what you get at a car dealer service department. I can see you do excellent work because of your high standards and extensive knowledge. That's not easy to find. Please stand up for yourself and try not to focus on unreasonable customers. What also might help is a one-page contract to sign when they drop off their amp which details various scenarios and the charges. I like your channel and will continue to watch.

[@Bullittbl]

I know you don't have confidence in this circuit. If it does fail would it possible to build a complete new amp in this cabinet or would it be cheaper to buy amp you build?

[@PsionicAudio]

Not much of one. It's a single preamp tube and a 6V6. Most of what you hear is opamp overdrive. Like built in pedals. Which is fine for the price point, but this is a fixed use chassis.

[@PeterDad60]

Preamp tubes last an exceedingly long time. It looks like the 6L6 comes out easily too. Oh wait, according to the PCB it say's this is a Blues King 10 which uses a 6V6 as you mentioned. Your tittle is wrong! This is not a Delta King 12 it's a Blues King 10!

[@joolm4976]

I've also got a Delta king 10 and it's written Blues King on the PCB

[@williamsherman1089]

I'm lazy, I'd pay the bench fee.

[@DavidBrown-it9ig]

Believe me having a conscientious and highly competent technician such as yourself is worth the cost of admission. I would easily pay more to have an amp that I love repaired and even improved as you often do than I actually paid for the amp. I have had amps taken to incompetent technicians who spent lengthy period of time trying to nail down an issue and charged hundreds of dollars only to find out by watching your KZbin videos that it was a relatively simple fix i.e. the Buddha SuperDrive 18 video that you did showing the bad, quarter inch jacks. So shrug off the haters they don’t know what they’re talking about. Musicians are highly volatile and notoriously cheap individuals but at the end of the day you have to pay to play.

[@brendantindall805]

the owner got lucky because you know your job, as for a bench fee, totally acceptable and I think once you've completed the job move on, I as an electrical contractor have a callout fee, minimum 4 hours for a job that hasn't been booked in

[@innocentoctave]

Almost all tradesmen in the UK who have to attend a site have a callout fee. Why would they not? Time and fuel and depreciation on a vehicle don't stop costing money because somebody wants a diagnosis for free.

[@adamr8878]

If a guitar player doesn't try tubes first, that is on them. They can't complain that it's so cheap/easy, when they can't/haven't bothered to do it themselves.

[@terrybyrne3890]

Op Amp = Tube screamer built in!!!

[@Gtrtech]

Reverb drive/return and effect loop buffering when applicable

[@malcolmhardwick4258]

If someone wants something for nothing then tell them to do it themselves.

[@jerrystephenson1172]

Time is money & I am sure you are fair w-yr. clients.

[@louiswagner443]

It's sad that you have to explain to people that you're charging for your time. Seems like a lot of people want something for nothing, but if the shoe was on the other foot, I'm sure they'd want paid, too.

[@CaseyJust]

Glad I came across this video! There is a Supro Blued King available locally for $250. I was tempted… I would like to shed some light on Supro. Yes there was a Zinky era Supro and they are not a “real” Supro. I know Bruce personally, he’s hung out at my house etc. I own two of the Zinky Tremolectrics which are very cool and great sounding. I’ve gigged with a two different Zinky designs a for about 25 years. Other than a Cap replacement on one of them (and tube replacements) it’s been all good. The current Supro era is NOT the Zinky Supro era. Zinky was only a consultant to Pigtronics/Absara which is owned by Bond Audio. To my knowledge that is Zinkys extent of the new Supro “collaboration”. Zinky did great work for Fender in the 90s, Vibro King, Dual Professional etc. I think he got tired of Fender taking his designs and cutting corners so he left.

[@eljefe2243]

Thief and a crook? pfff! People love getting stuff for free and they think it is ok to disrespect people to get free stuff. Irritates the heck out of me as a musician/engineer/producer who has been in music for over 30 years. It ain't just a hobby just as anyone going to their job doesn't treat it as a hobby. I don't see why it is hard to put 2 and 2 together to get 4 but apparently it is for a lot of people.

[@artysanmobile]

If anyone argues with your minimum fee, just hand them the bill. If they react in any way negatively, don’t invest further time by listening. Collect, thank them for their business, “I hope you are happy with my work, now I’m very busy” and show them the door. Hemming and hawing with that bullshit cheap-ass attitude does neither you nor them any good. Let them see how a pro in your line of work operates. They will be able to fill in the blanks after they leave and enjoy their amp.

[@christophervincent8420]

Ah, blues King 10. A 5wtt amp

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

First comment again!

[@retread1083]

Lead Champion!

[@faultlessguitarsandamps1116]

I think we should all learn Lyles favourite riff , and play it until we go mental !

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

@@faultlessguitarsandamps1116 I played it and sent it to him once. I don't think he was amused. Lol!

[@matthewf1979]

If you don’t like paying an expert, take the time to learn 30 years of experience yourself. Some people deserve the bench fee. Too lazy to do a Google search on common failures for their specific amp and it’s related consumables. I guess I should go easy on people. Some of them don’t know how to put gas in their car.

[@DanielBobke]

The reason he took the amp to you is because he didn't know what was wrong with the amp. That diagnostic expertise/time has value and he should be happy to pay the bench fee because he has a working amp and he didn't have to learn amp repair!

[@joejones4181]

Hmmm.... Not sure what you charged the guy to "change the tube" but you more than made up for it in the explanation. Not sure if this type of thing is good or bad or perhaps better left during a consultation with you one on one. Reputation, skill, track record, really doesn't need a lengthy youtube explanation. Something to consider, no offense. If I had an amp question or God forbid, needed a high amp repaired you would be on the short list. Enjoy your work.

[@HashiAkitaPuppy]

OK Boomer, you are getting paid to fix the amp, not give your 2 cents on whether or not it's a "real supro" as far as your concerned. Try not to be such a bitter old man.

[@PsionicAudio]

This is hilarious on levels you don't understand.

[@HashiAkitaPuppy]

@@PsionicAudio It's hilarious that you don't even know what amp you are working on and that you think "real Supros" are in any way superior to modern Supros. You are a dying breed of dinosaur found only to inhabit small gear forums and obscure YT channels.

[@PsionicAudio]

Boy, you sure told me. I don't know how I can go on.

[@HashiAkitaPuppy]

@@PsionicAudio You don't even have very common pre-amp tubes in stock, you have to order them, what kind of clown show are you running? It's "techs" like you who give the trade a bad name.

[@stringlocker]

I heard a good one. Please do not mistake your Google search for my training and schooling and hard work.