Surface Grinder Wheel Balancer - Part 1! WW177

[@VolkCNC]

NEVER put clamp removal program stops as optional stops. They aren't optional. Always use an M00. You will forget to engage optional stop one day and crash your clamps. In industry we usually put a second M00 with an "are you sure?" comment just to cover those Monday morning days.

[@occamssawzall3486]

VolkCNC I was going to say the same thing. It works on this tormach because it doesn’t have a tool changer so optional stop is always on. But if you were to do that on the HAAS, it’ll go right past that M01 and go right through the clamps. M00 ALWAYS if you need a required stop.

[@VolkCNC]

Occams Sawzall good point. I just heard optional stop and had a panic attack. I put optional stops after before every tool change. Really handy when proven out programs.

[@Southardknives]

Absolutely true! Learned this the hard way not long ago.

[@2222e100]

Huh, Interesting and great job as always John, This video goes to show how many ways there are to skin a cat! I would have machined the whole part out (full depth) in the first op holding onto only .060" then flip the part and use a facemill (less violent than a flycutter) to face off the remaining stock, tends to waste a tiny bit more stock, but makes for a super reliable no hassle setup!

[@peteferguson7024]

Love the chips flying! Great little addition to the shop too. Thanks.

[@DIRTYTHUNDERCUSTOMS]

John, U rock. I actually need a static balancer, for a project. Looking forward to seeing how well this works.

[@ExtantFrodo2]

The process of truing balance wheels in watches is somewhat similar, instead of roller bearings the shaft is placed on a set of parallel knife edges and rolled. If it favors a spot on the wheel 3-4 times, then that's considered to be a heavy spot. Hope this helps. Great video.

[@cavemansmancave9025]

Nice piece. It would be interesting to make that from a casting. Just a thought. Very nice. Thanks, John

[@OldIronShops]

Nice part John , have you ever considered making castings? If you are thinking of producing theas for sale then all you would need to do is the finishing work. These two trades are very complimentary.

[@MrKidkiller159]

nice . I just a one man shop repair stop for motocross racer/riders. I put my crank truing stand on the Bridgeport table and balance the 12 inch wheel on my (abrasive tool company) surface grinder. that stuff is so cool I love it ,all I can afford is manual machines at that .

[@chrisj4570g]

To save a few steps, (in general, not just on this project) could you mill a slot in the bottom of the pallet to fit over the moveable jaw, and then just leave an extra jaw on the rear of the vice? So when you wanted to use the pallet, you could literally just drop it in and go. May have to make the pallet a bit thicker to account for the slot I suppose.

[@paulspisak5312]

Could you have just started on the mini pallet with mighty bite and then go to strap clamps ?

[@Falconguygaming]

John! can you do some more videos with the 440? I'd love to see it pushed to the limit, Im curious to what can be done with such a small machine! Thanks man! For this part, I originally thought if you could do away with the center detail and just make it 3 holes for some cap screws, still index on the dowels but clamp with screws. Not sure if the center detail will have some function or is just cosmetic.

[@HughesEarthworks]

Very nice John! Can you link the video about showing how to get rid of all the whisper cuts when do the rest machining? I know you did one, but I cannot find it. Thanks!

[@chiefmachining7972]

You have to change the stock to leave and tolerances on the rest machining to be more then previous cut

[@HughesEarthworks]

Ok, thanks. I tried everything I could think of the other day and could not get it to do it correctly. I think I went the wrong way and made them less.

[@nyccnc]

GOOD CALL - I'll do a video focusing on this

[@HughesEarthworks]

I think I finally got it. The stock to leave has to be ever so slightly more and the tolerance has to be less in the linking tab. That worked for the current project anyway.

[@koplandavid]

for the removal of center stock, i would make a hole with a drill bit and than use trochoidal milling with the corner radius endmil

[@ShnitzlHaus]

John do you treat your pallet as a sacrificial piece? and resurface when needed.

[@lwilton]

So I saw you dec the first side. When did you clean up the second face? I do have to wonder about using roller bearings on a balancer, especially large diameter bearings. Most of the balancers for various things that I've seen either used flat knives, or a pair of knife rollers of fairly large diameter with small ball bearings.

[@king38081]

Maybe I'm just used to larger mills, but why so many depth cuts for a relatively thin plate? Is the Tormach simply not rigid enough for that kind of roughing?

[@Nathan-mg7ho]

yep, tormach is pretty weak

[@king38081]

Makes sense, smallest mill I've ever worked on was a HAAS Minimill. Most I've used are at least VF2 size.

[@occamssawzall3486]

You’re looking at maybe max 1-1/4 HP at the spindle on a tormach. So doesn’t have the power to make full depth cuts. But at a price of around $5k-$7k and running on single phase 110v power. You get quite a bit of machine for the money.

[@JaakkoF]

You can always switch to SoildCAM and use iMachining to get full DOC even on the puniest mills there is without worries.

[@pobvic]

Could you have added an extra hole or two towards the base of the part for location? you could have also bolted through those holes and not required the strap clamps. It's a long time since I did any machining so forgive me, would placing three washers or shims under the part lifted it slightly so you wouldn't kiss your mini pallet? would the part still be stable?

[@Worksengineer]

I cannot find on your web site the fusion 360 cad file mentioned at the beginning of the video or is it subscription only!

[@dave-j-k]

Very nice, can you tell me what coolant you run in your Fogbuster please?

[@paulmace7910]

Op 0 some holes out in the waste. Set on buttons on pallet. Hold down thru drilled holes. Punch some big holes to remove most of stock in inner triangle. Finish inside, bottom and some of sides. Stop, add clamps inside, remove bolts, finish outside. Flip, chamfer alternate side. If it fits on the table do both out of one piece, bottom to bottom.

[@kirkcreelman]

Please make this a dynamic balancer. Arduino, accelerometer, light sensor. 1000 times more sensitive. Looking forward to it!!

[@nyccnc]

YES

[@gredangeo]

If I didn't know any better, I think you were taking your tool to full depth on that mini pallet, and thus cutting into it. Now that's a no-no. Continual cutting like that just makes the pallet useless later for other jobs. An easy fix to that problem would be chamfer that outside profile on the first op (which you didn't do. ??) when you chamfer that pocket on the first op. Once the chamfer is done, the tools that do the profile on Op2 don't have to go full depth. Even though your chamfer won't look right on Op1, as long you can measure the pocket chamfer you know that the profile will be correct as well (when done with same tool). Now cutting that profile with just the chamfer will be using a tiny tip in the material. So it would be best to rough with a .25" inch tool or something first, only a small depth that the chamfer goes to. This far easier to deal with chamfers on both sides of a part I think.

[@occamssawzall3486]

gredangeo Or just use .02 shim stock under the part for op2

[@gredangeo]

Shim stock introduces flatness errors. I'd rather not ever get shim stock involved if I can. I view that as a bandaid solution to another problem.

[@occamssawzall3486]

gredangeo How does it induce flatness error? If you put 3 pieces down spaces around the part, it guarantees that surface is as flat as possible. The 3 points establish a parallel plane between the fixture plate and the part.

[@gredangeo]

"3 pieces down" ? Wait, the shim stock doesn't even cover the whole part? That's makes it worse. The part can bend when you clamp it down.

[@occamssawzall3486]

gredangeo how much clamping force do you think you need?? And no you don’t want to cover the whole part. I’ve never introduce additional flatness or parallelism errors by doing that. That’s how I actually get rid of those kinds of errors if the op 1 facing happened to warp the material.

[@TjallingBlackCat]

As a layman, my first instinct would probably be to drill a few holes for bolts to attach it to the fixture plate with a few small standoffs underneath. They'd be useless after the part is done, but hey.

[@ganesh3663]

Wouldn't it be cost and time saving,if that triangular pocket was not machined.Also couldn't half the piece be offset of the mini pallet so the tool would not damage pallet? correct me if I'm wrong.

[@Metalloys]

Just out of curiosity : why this fancy shape ? and all the associated loss of material ? What's the problem with plain rectangular sides ? or is it just showing off ? BTW even that didnt work.

[@makun16]

I'd love to see the other side being ripped through on the Haas. It would be an interesting comparison with the shear hog being ran on both mills.

[@886014]

G’day John, great work as always. Sorry if I’ve mentioned this before, but I notice you always spot drill holes and I would question the necessity of doing that each time you drill them. It may seem like a small point, but it’s another tool change and when multiplied by the number of holes over the course of a year, you’re talking hours of time. I don’t think most of the holes you drill would need to be spot drilled first, unless you were using that op to pre-chamfer the subsequent hole. A regular twist drill is normally sufficiently accurate in most materials for typical clearance holes.

[@MrRock861261]

Can you go more indepth about how you found xy in the second op?

[@koollarson]

My advice would be to on the first OP leave one end stick out of the vice so you could mill the bottom without the need to move clamps in the second OP and mill the entire perimeter of the part .100 deep and chamfer so the second OP would stay off pallet .020 and all most no deburing by hand

[@PilchPlays]

I see your trying to up stage Keith Fenner's roller kits. ;)

[@zachaliles]

Showing little mistakes like you did in your videos is a good thing in my opinion. We all know everyone makes mistakes, might as well let someone else learn from them.

[@daveanderson2316]

Great as always , thank you!

[@JebJulian]

Manual NC! I was looking every where for a way to stop between op's with the same tool. don't have to go through the code on note pad adding M00 or M1. thanks

[@Sicktrickintuner]

Sweet new video

[@Nathan-mg7ho]

i would've done it in 2 ops - op 1 rough out and finish inside pocket and all external features plus chamfer - op 2 flip part into a custom soft jaw and deck it to thickness with a face mill then chamfer edges keep in mind that op 1 would machine the entire part height plus say 0.050" depth (to provide clearance in the second op fixture)

[@kchigley5309]

Are you compensating at all for the fact that the Tormach doesn't have the guts to properly run that Shear Hog? You can hear the RPM drop which means your chipload goes up, so are you compensating with a lower chipload to start with so it normalizes in the cut?

[@occamssawzall3486]

Kenneth Higley I don’t hear an RPM drop. I hear a heavier chipload, but not an RPM drop on the spindle.

[@tedfry236]

Question, on the roughing operations, why not have conventional then climb milling for the inside corners instead of conventional, go back to the start of the segment, repeat? My apologies, it's been over 20 years since I touched a mill, let alone did any kind of NC milling.

[@donaldparker4277]

CNC mills like to climb cut. I think it has to do with loading the ball screw. I have a Tormach 770 and have always used climb cutting. I know manual milling and climb cutting gets pretty interesting if the cut is to heavy or you have loose gibs, in that case the table has a tendency to feed itself . :)

[@occamssawzall3486]

Climb milling requires less power in the cut than conventional milling. Plus unlike a manual machine, there’s virtually no backlash in the axis screws, plus they are powered axis so the cutter won’t pull the table in a climb milling cut like it would on a manual machine. Conventional milling is still used sometimes, but only to control which way the tool will deflect in a cut. Other than that, climb milling is the way to go on a CNC.

[@williamscam1]

Wednesday came early.

[@cvasold]

Great video!

[@Haaalo079]

you could also use m00

[@blob_87]

Agree, and would be a much safer option in a scenario like this. Forget to turn option stop on at the control and you crash.

[@micahhunter2706]

came here to say this. MANDATORY STOP.

[@Limosical]

I'd do it it in two ops but a little different from you, start with a thicker piece of material by about 10mm, grip on 3mm, min skim top, then I'd cut everything on one side that's possible including drilled holes, the centre, the outside profile, the chamfer. I'd flip it, put two bolts in the holes and a clamp on the opposite side - in the middle of where you put your two outside clamps. Cut it to correct thickness, leaving a boss around the holes and avoiding cutting through the clamp, then chamfer the outside, place clamps on a finished size area, remove the old clamps. Remove left over material with same tool used to get correct thickness

[@1891BigJim]

Needs larger rollers to be sensitive enough. Rollers need to be balanced as well. Static balancers are very sensitive to any out of balance.

[@skissors8587]

I would send that part out for a waterjet cut first. Telling them to add material inside and outside, so you could clean it up. Faster cheaper and less tool wear.

[@billstrahan4791]

Just for grins, take a look at two very old videos of mine under a different account that show using magnets instead of bearings: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6OkipKdZ8ygfa8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2TQhpagpMiBi7M I find this so much easier than trying to get perfect alignment between bearings and if adjusted properly it us MUCH less friction than rolling bearings. I hope the video is self explanatory, especially the second one. All you need is a steel shaft with a short taper on one end, two tapered cones to support and center your work to balance, and a fixture to hold magnets rigidly an adjustable distance apart. One end of the steel shaft is flat, the other is tapered. The magnets will attract the flat end more powerfully than they will attract the tapered end because the taper has less steel to act upon. So when you get the magnets just a bit further apart than the length of the shaft and place the tapered end of the shaft on one magnet the other end of the shaft will be supported by the other magnets. Now as you make that gap smaller the attraction will increase until the shaft jumps from the magnet on the tapered end to the magnet on the flat end. Once you get there, increase the gap back a tiny amount and pull the shaft back over so the tapered end is against the magnets. Now it should stay there but the net force between the magnet and the taper will be so low that the tapered point alone with the tiny force involved will result in the lowest friction I've ever seen on a shaft.

[@Fromeco]

John that orbit looked suspect, did we just witness your first legit public use of a Space Mouse? Seemed like there was a little grunt there at the beginning of the orbit? Hopefully that will make your wrist feel better soon.

[@e7540]

Why is it cutting clockwise? The tool is spinning clockwise and the cutting path is going clockwise too. Shouldn't it be the opposite?

[@koplandavid]

which operation?

[@e7540]

Most of them. There only few that go counterclockwise.

[@occamssawzall3486]

That would be climb milling.... that’s the correct direction of cut.

[@theAustriaball]

You can do that on a cnc mill, never do it on a conventional machine

[@e7540]

Why is it so? Isn't cnc just motorized mill?

[@pyalot]

Oh shit, they realized that most of us watch this channel for entertainment and aren't machinist ;)

[@jeremiahhale5001]

you rock!

[@zigmass4899]

Auto balancing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqrVZoiQgNesn9k

[@MIGuy]

Observation #1. Why do you need to remove the interior of the stand? Looks like wasted machine time and design time. Final Observations. Design it for balancing a grinder wheel instead of for appearance and looks. You have turned a simple design/manufactured part into a lot of extra work. I hated the "looks good remarks" when talking with manufacturing ... I wanted to know if it was made to print.

[@justinmoritz6543]

Oh gosh! I wouldn't even through that thing into a machine until I had cut a blank out with a waterjet/laser. Spending that much machining time is wasteful in my mind.

[@nyccnc]

Right! We should all use our lasers and waterjet machines more! #whatwasIthinking!

[@daveanderson2316]

NYC CNC Well shit... I don't have a waterjet/laser, should I just sell everything and say screw it?

[@occamssawzall3486]

Justin Moritz Water jet? Barbarian. Our wire EDM will bring it right to finish size in one shot. 😝

[@imfbrad]

LOL!

[@OakwoodMachineWorks]

Don't be that guy....

[@MrDaniell1234]

everyone is make them these days

[@macsrule15]

Stop using the shear hog for everything! There are better tools a 1/2 2 flute em would have been much more beneficial for such a thing plate you can use the center cutting 2 FL em to drill a center hole (or use a drill if you prefer ) then interpolate out at 2 depths then use the 1/2 2fl em for the cleanup pass should fit in those radii if not use a 3/8 2fl em do op 1 and 2 on the mini pallet and you wouldn't have to pick up your x and y again there are much easier ways to machine!

[@nyccnc]

1/2" carbide end mill = $50? $60? One accident, chipped corner, chip welded flutes = no good

[@macsrule15]

NYC CNC no need to be carbide on aluminum I've run hss on titanium no problems all in the speeds and feeds hss 2 FL 1/2 will do the job no problem and speed up your part time (production) time is money say you can make the part 1 min faster (probably faster) assuming you want 100/hr from your machine that is $1.66/min time that by 1 min per part and 1 em should easily do 50 parts that is 83$ savings factor in the cost of a hss em at $20 you have saved minimum $68 on 50 parts not including tool change time or fixture time shear hog is a good tool but not always ideal! Love your videos John!

[@occamssawzall3486]

A 1/2” 2 flute endmill would require significantly more HP and torque than the shear hog does. Also the machine is limited to 100 ipm. This favors a large single flute cutter over even a 1/2” 2 flute cutter. The MRR of the shear hog will beat a 1/2” cutter on that machine every time. And using HSS?? 😆. Hey you could use a cold chisel as well, but why? Why invest in HSS when the rest of the machines are all running carbide? Doesn’t make any sense to.

[@JaakkoF]

Please for the love of everyones eyes, use some periods, commas, anything!

[@anthonyvarwig1988]

Nobody balances grinding wheel any more. Manufacturer does it all you do is true them. I'm a journeyman tool and die maker for 27 yrs.

[@ShinyMajor]

I'm no machinist, but this screams 3D printing to me. It's got 3 separate parts, all with large, flat surfaces, and no overhangs.

[@pobvic]

If your consider 3D addative printing as one part of the rapid prototyping tool group then you do have different options. Things to consider would be: - Raw material cost, bar stock being cheaper than metal powder to run a sintering machine - Machine availability, John has CNC machines primarily so uses what he has, tho he could have roughed out the shape on the plasma. - Piece rigidity, I wouldn't make this out of ABS, glass re-enforced or aluminium seem much more suitable choices - Dimensional tolerance, As this is for a high precision wheel balancer where the left and right need to be at equal heights it would probably require a post printing, maching op to be confident of the tolerances

[@Bigdogzq]

It is going to be under reasonable load, be holding bearings, and have a SMW badge on it. As something that could join their product line making it out of a long string of plastic folded over itself would not be an ideal method of manufacture.

[@occamssawzall3486]

I mean. If you want to wait a week to get the parts. And still go back and machine the critical features. And spend about 4X more in cost for the parts... These parts are a complete waste of time for an additive metal printer, because they are so simple to machine and the stock material is cheap. You use an additive metal printer for parts that are complex and difficult to machine or that has features that are unable to be machined.