SURPRISE SURPRISE! - Nazis Hate The DOCTOR WHO Interracial Kiss (Rogue/Bridgerton Episode Fallout)

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[@SonicTimewarp]

Also can I just point out Asexual does NOT mean aromantic. Asexuals can flirt and date, we can kiss and cuddle and hug. The doctor having a romance with Rogue does not make him not Asexual.

[@TheCardinalArt]

Thank you! As a very romantic ace I am consistently having to explain this. I adored the chemistry between the Doctor and Rogue. For myself, this was the most believable attraction aside from River that I've seen from the Doctor. The entire episode made me so happy that it's one I will watch over and over for a long time. Really loving this season!

[@tylerbailey9329]

I doubt they even realize asexual is in the LGBTQIA acronym. That'd be all it'd take for them to start hating on asexuals.

[@SonicTimewarp]

@@TheCardinalArt I completely agree with you, one romantic ace to another. Honestly I’d be very much like the Doctor myself when trying to impress my crush, including singing Willy Wonka 😂

[@DubbleM900]

Kind of funny how the same people complaining about the Doctor not being ace enough are the same people who usually erase them from any other conversation.

[@headsgrowback1]

Then you get the phobes that are all like "They only don't like sex because they haven't been with MEEEE, their sexual savior who will rescue them from this eeeeeviiillll lifestyle!!"

[@mrcritical6751]

Bowelstrek’s behaviour is just beyond parody at this point. In his 73 Yards video he legit gets infuriated cause the show used food he wasn’t familiar with. He actually gets infuriated and screams “WHAT THE FUCK IS A PASTY!!!” when the food delivery guy shows up at the pub

[@roryaphunter]

oh my god that's fucking pathetic

[@faidreview1186]

Lol Which is extra funny when pasty is basically just British slang. Hilarious and shows even more how much of an idiot he is

[@hiimnameless5520]

So it's just a less funny version of "what the fuck is the kilometer" But less funny because Bowelstrek is idiot

[@cfsfilms5091]

My favorite is in his Dot and Bubble review where some of the things he screams at are reactions you're supposed to have. Like he's mad that the people in Finetime only work 2 hours a day and are shallow and vapid, literally things characters point out, but he's screaming like that's a problem with the episode. Like he just assumes you're supposed to like them and the show is failing? It's very funny.

[@roryaphunter]

That is just pathetic

[@InvadedOath]

So my brother asked my niece about why the people in Dot and Bubble would not like the Doctor (she’s 11) and she didn’t even consider that it would be based on race. This puts a pretty big hole in this guy’s argument

[@Char10tti3]

Honestly I couldn't hear that part of the episode too well and thought it was just them being privileged, and that The Doctor vs Ricky September was on class. Didn't even clock the fact the main cast was white because it's pretty common now to have the influencer space like this, as well as previous episodes of the show, so it worked on that level too.

[@Char10tti3]

Although that addrd they definitely had strong colonialiser vibes at the end when they go out of the dome so that stood out

[@liam3791]

I didn't know either during the episode. When I watched Unleashed afterward and heard Russell say something about seeing how far you get into the episode until you realise it's about race.

[@cfsfilms5091]

​@@Char10tti3 I really appreciate the episode for working to reveal the audience's bubble, if they have one. Like if you didn't notice everyone was white, why? Because it is weird, but depending on what you watch and where you've grown up it might not actually register as weird until it's directly pointed out. It's great to have something that can prompt introspection in that way, because it is important.

[@UomodAltriTempi]

​@@Char10tti3 That's why I've reached the conclusion that the message was indeed too subtle, ambiguous and vague to be received by the "right" audience. The message of the story revolves around three layers: xenophobia, classism and racism. Their hints are recognisible throughout the episode, yes. The problem is they are not specific to racism, since they are used in xenophobic and classist approaches as well. Let's say, so, it's a multilayered kind of messaging. Technically, it will be correct to assume so since it perfectly applies to three layers of subtext. Let's also add those hints are not at all transparent, and that the micro-aggressions shown in the episode are not subtle: you can clearly see and recognise them, through the scenes. Yet, we still face a problem: from the behind-the-scenes interviews, we hear Davies saying the main point he wanted people to focus, at the end of the story, was the racist layer. So the objective of the message was to highlight that particular layer above the other two. With this in mind, what turns out to be too subtle, or should I say ambiguous (as I find it's the correct term to usein this regard), is the specific layer those micro-aggressions are referred to in particular. The episode is addressing a great plethora of people, not just the ones who faced the micro-aggressions linked to ethnicity. So, those who should be aimed by the message must be people who do not usually face them or that have never faced them. It's the only way for the message to work properly in order to justify its presence in the story in the first place; if its subtlety goes specifically against this objective, in practicality it fails in reaching the "right" audience that at the beginning is unaware of its content. Reading the comments around KZbin, you see the people who recognised the "right" layer at first glance where also those who faced discrimination connected to that specific layer. But the message *is not* at all meant for them to be understood, since they *already* know how to recognise it. They are not its "right" audience. Again, *it's meant for those who didn't experienced it or are not aware of it* . You have three different layers (xenophobia, classism, racism) and at the end you want to highlight just one of them; but since you are using hints that can interchangeably being applied for all those three layers in equal measure, what you obtain in this case is two layers covering and hiding the intended one to shine. Out of several proposed hints, there is not a single one that can be specifically traced back to racism (except for the _"you all look the same"_ - that is pretty unmistakeable); not even the _"contamination"_ bit and Lindy blocking the Doctor's account in the Bubble are, since they can be both associated with classism and xenophobia. Even the _"voodoo"_ bit is still too vague: you can see it as a latent racism bit, sure; as much as you can literally see anything else in it, though. The boundaries are too blurred to have a satisfactory and conclusive confirmation, just remaining within the story without an exchange of ideas with other people outside it. The moment those who were supposed to be aimed to by the message have to rely on external sources or people pointing them out in order to see it, outside the confines of the story itself (like the Davies' interview in Unleashed), well... you can say the subtlety has been inefficient in delivering the intended message to the "intended" audience. It failed in accomplishing its main purpose all by itself. The episode final scene still works perfectly, since it works for both the xenophobic and classist layers. But that's, apparently, was not at all what Davies wanted the "right" audience to grasp about. In that, it absolutely failed.

[@seankelly8432]

Katy Manning has said that Jon Pertwee would have loved Ncuti's Doctor. So any comments stating that he's "rolling in his grave" are talking shite

[@mrcritical6751]

This is the same argument Steph Coburn uses when trying to justify why he hates Ncuti, not really a good thing to be doing things Steph Coburn does

[@lbricks7631]

Pertwee would just give him a burger from Pertwee's Burgers.

[@martydrury1234]

I have this big feeling that the debunked guy did not watch the episode but has just seen the kiss bit. Bowelstrek sounds like a discount Cartman from South Park.

[@dogblessamerica]

Yeah he just skipped to the kiss bit. And watched it again and again and again until he ran out of tissues. Then turned the ensuing wave of self hatred outward.

[@aleatoriac7356]

Deep discount, so deep you don't want it.

[@liamatsutv]

I'm white, male, married to my black husband... for us, this episode was edifying, it was uplifting! We were hugely happy to see something of ourselves represented so respectfully and positively in one of our favourite shows. Then we used the Internet, and remembered why now - right now, more than ever - this kind of representation MATTERS.

[@Comicbroe405]

Good for you goat & agreed!

[@DissociatedWomenIncorporated]

Yep, it’s a scary time for the LGBT community right now. We gotta stick together! Merry Pridemas 🥳

[@maniraptavia4008]

So happy for you both to hear that you felt so seen! This is exactly the kind of representation the LGBT+ community needs and I'm so happy to see it in the mainstream media nowadays. I remember a time not so long ago where homosexual relationships were barely ever on screen. I genuinely think the first time I saw unambiguous straight-up gay romance front and centre on TV was in RTD's Cucumber in 2015, which also stars an interracial gay couple. Happy Pride and I wish you both all the best! :)

[@theatheisthammer]

I'm also multi racial relationship and like I've said if you need affirming in entertainment then shows something lacking there. I'm fine with representation so why not make programmes and original i.p instead of hijacking. It's simple

[@DissociatedWomenIncorporated]

@@theatheisthammer lol nothing’s been hijacked

[@MADMAN_25]

Gotta be honest. The fact that it was an interracial kiss, didn't even cross my mind until he brought it up. Interracial relationships are just so normalized these days to people my age, that I wasn't even thinking about it. But, this absolute fossil just cannot get with that program.

[@lbricks7631]

Look this guy deserves all the insults, but there are still heaps of "fossils" who watch and love doctor who. People who grew up in the sixties era of beatles, peace and love. So many of these old berks, give people like my Dad or Grandmother (86) a bad name by making people think anyone over the age of 50 is a biggot, when 9 times out of 10, they're lovely, inclusive people.

[@MADMAN_25]

@@lbricks7631 Being a Fossil is a mindset. Not a number.

[@vexisonline]

​@@MADMAN_25 agreed. And we should never let them veil their bigotry with age for this exact reason. There are plenty of non-fossil 70+ ppl who can have a open mindset.

[@britanimations2002]

Defending their love for Doctor Who: "It's a family show actually" When minorities exist in the show: "Kids show, think of the children!!!"

[@theatheisthammer]

I am thinking of the children and I wouldn't have sexual innuendo and have no story and pushingthe story out for a political ideology message which is front and foremost. I wouldn't want sexual stuff from a hero couple. Thing is diversity is fine but when you delete the foundation of the narrative. When it's so established. I would t have the black panther played by a white man. This isn't about diversity or representation it's about empty people who have nothing but what colour of skin they have and who they sleep with in their lives. And they become parasites on other things. I don't value people by such unimport things like skin colour or sexuality I prefer the quality of the person and their action. And nutty and Russel have shown what type they are so has chippy. Wait to you see the actual numbers of people who watched the full episode and the audience appreciation scores why do you think only for this season they are with holding them? At the end of the day it's a buiasnes there to make money and these type of people like nutty and Russell and sweet baby inc. are doing it for attention and they are all victims the world is a harsh place. If this was a stand alone show then all the power. But when you re write 60 years of lore hollow out the core insides of Dr who then wear it like the wolf in sheep's clothing and destroying something I supported for 4 decades. I take a huge problem. And the racist remarks yes racist remarks black people can be racist openly say it in public because they make themselves to be victims. Most gen z ect these days just follow what others say and join in because it's popular not because it's true this is how pitchfork mobs work.

[@KroanC]

There was a Jim’ll Fix It episode of Doctor Who called “A Fix With Sontarans” during Colin Baker’s run. When the Doctor and Tegan saw Saville’s face on the Tardis screen for the first time, they were immediately disgusted by calling Saville’s face “revolting”. Not even the Doctor nor Tegan want to be involved with Saville.

[@redjirachi1]

You think Colin Baker had an inkling on what Savile was actually like?

[@KroanC]

@@redjirachi1 Maybe. There’s a Daily Mail article where he’s talking about Saville and said that he found Saville’s demeanour to be “neither friendly, nor inclusive”. Colin also described him as “creepy” and “patronising”.

[@headsgrowback1]

It was a "Saturday teatime show for kids"?! Did episodes like Genesis of the Daleks or Pyramids of Mars just seem like happy little lessons in history??

[@Velociraptour]

Looking like Davros is no reason to also act like Davros.

[@andyleighton3616]

For a British commenter he is oddly poorly informed. Interracial kisses were relatively little commented on - hence his focus on Star Trek (which wasn't even the first inter-racial kiss on US TV). See the wikipedia page for "First interracial kiss on television"

[@sheersternfeld1914]

Wait, it wasn't?

[@andyleighton3616]

@@sheersternfeld1914 Well the earlier ones on US TV were white and Asian people. I think Star Trek was the first kiss between and black person and a white person (on a US TV programme).

[@lbricks7631]

@@andyleighton3616 Certainly the first well documented one that got the most people talking.

[@UomodAltriTempi]

> _«"Doctor Who" was supposed to be an educational TV show.»_ > _«"Doctor Who" shouldn't lecture the audience.»_ *Pick one.*

[@ftumschk]

Not forgetting the third way: "Educate without lecturing"

[@UomodAltriTempi]

@@ftumschk A third way that, in practice, doesn't exist since technically educating means lecturing, because you offer a lesson about something. Offering an advice or just giving the example are still means of lecturing. "Show don't tell" applies only with prose.

[@ftumschk]

@@UomodAltriTempi A third way that most certainly DOES exist. There are Socratic and didactic approaches to teaching; it is eminently possible to educate by means of example and allegory, versus the more "Chibnallian" approach of ramming things down the audience's throat via exposition-heavy dialogue.

[@JohnDavidSullivan]

There is education. There is preaching ideology. Pick one.

[@UomodAltriTempi]

​@@ftumschk The Socratic way, using metaphors and hypotheticals, is still lecturing: it doesn't matter if for you it isn't or doesn't sound like lecturing. It still is lecturing, because its purpose is to teach something in a particular, specific and conveyed manner. And, about the "ramming things out your throat", that's just a matter of perception since a story does not have to convey its message under a shroud of subtetly in order to be a story.

[@CameronMcCracken_Art]

The % of LGBTQIA+ in the UK is likely higher, for various reasons but to point out just one - think of just how many are still in the closet about their sexuality.

[@vandalcreed]

Intersex isn't a sexuality though 😏

[@CameronMcCracken_Art]

@@vandalcreed Yes, I know. Who said it is?

[@CameronMcCracken_Art]

@@vandalcreed and of what relevance is this to what I said?

[@CameronMcCracken_Art]

@@vandalcreed ah nevermind I realise now why you randomly brought it up. So with the LGBTQIA+ acronym, not all of the letters relate to specific sexualities. Some are to do with gender, like Intersex but also Transgender the T in LGBTQIA+.

[@seankelly8432]

Does this guy think Doctor Who needs to be historically accurate? That kind of went out the window when Queen Victoria was hinted to be a werewolf 😅

[@dogblessamerica]

Lmao 🤣

[@Kiss_lynda]

No but it’s definitely no longer liked. It’s just a glee/high school musical. It’s just not politically motivated every second. Nothing like my once favorite show. And no way are my straight loved ones watching lol not even the ones with gay kids are watching.

[@ftumschk]

... or when King John turned out to be a shapeshifting android ;)

[@cfsfilms5091]

@@Kiss_lynda Good to know you agree it's just not politically motivated every second, people who claim it is are really stupid.

[@playererror4044]

Pretty sure the histories been... wonky lets say, since even back in thje classic time, hell second episode of the show ever: Fire making wouldn't be a guarded secret, they'd share it instantly because it's so useful.

[@maldaror7097]

that Kitchener looking guy at the beginning makes me feel young, also, a lot of crimes where punishable by death in regency England, it wasn't about what was evil, it was about what most people did.

[@DigitalBath742]

I didn't like the kiss. Not because it was between two men; not because it was interracial, but because I have never liked it when Dr Who deals with romantic plots.

[@samuelbarber6177]

Yeah, I’ve always felt that the Doctor should be asexual as well, but they seemed to just throw that out of the window back in 1996

[@plantainsame2049]

​@samuelbarber6177 They threw that out the window back in the 60s.When they had him have a romance with a Aztec woman and have a granddaughter which implies that he did the sex It was only the eighties that were as weirdly sterile

[@jensablefur155]

Yes I've found another one of me. I've never got used to the whole Modern Who thing of the Doctor smooching the companions and humans. It's not for me. It's not a dealbreaker for the show, but I've never quite got used to it. "No hanky panky in the tardis" was always unironically the best take for me here.

[@samuelbarber6177]

@@plantainsame2049 eh, I suppose but even in the example with the Aztec lady, it was really more of a joke than anything, and I’m fairly sure there wasn’t a kiss onscreen (could be misremembering though). Even in such examples the Doctor never really was a romantic character until the TV movie. I suppose it’s just reflective of modern audience’s expectations.

[@richardzauner1845]

Thanks for being honest.

[@lcoyle1998]

For a show that brings me so much joy, I really hate how many neo-nazis (who clearly don't even watch the show) flood every conversation about it. Nothing wrong with including and representing as many communities and groups of people as you want. The more the merrier. Anyone who says otherwise needs to calm down and just enjoy the escapist sci fi space wizard in their magic box and stop making everything into a civilisation defining struggle...

[@lordjazoijua94]

He not a Neo-Nazi just a old fart with far-right views.

[@DylanTT17]

I know, if you search up dr who on KZbin, its these shitty reactionaries

[@Woke_Invaders]

Only m#rons like you believe that having an opinion is "nazi". Shows a lot about your mental maturity.

[@RDragon1]

I... I feel like I've been seeing people suddenly complain about interracial relationships a lot. Like... When did that become controversial/taboo? Like, I lived in a bubble for a good portion of my life, but I don't remember seeing distaste towards interracial couples until like the last few years or so. Whenever I see the complaints I just think "Why is that a problem?" I legitimately don't get it.

[@MasterDoctorBenji]

The world is pushing more to the right. At least in terms of who has the power and who is the loudest.

[@ravenmusic6392]

Wait what really? Bowlestreak and Historydebunked don't like the gay interracial kiss? I never thought they'd have that opinion, their reviews are usually so insightful and meaningful :( Seriously though isn't the character of rogue kind of a captain jack rip off, you know, another character who kissed the doctor? Why was Jacks kiss ok but ncutis not?

[@rover_libra]

The bigots are complaining because it most likely had something to do with Ncuti's race.

[@samuelbarber6177]

Fear not, Bowlestrek’s been back tracking, now he hates all of Russell’s work.

[@mrcritical6751]

@@samuelbarber6177literally back tracked so hard in his Boom review, making a random complaint about The Slythine to try and pretend RTD was messing around whilst Moffat was making actual drama

[@samuelbarber6177]

@@mrcritical6751 I really hope Moffat returns as show runner, just to piss off Bowlestrek who then would have to back track harder. And then we can resurrect John Nathan-Turner.

[@mrcritical6751]

@@samuelbarber6177 hell let’s resurrect Verity Lambert, see him get pissed at the big mama of all Who

[@russelltietjen4407]

Was he trying to frame the fact that there was a gay kiss in regency England as unrealistic because it carried the death penalty? Both characters are time travellers from other planets my guy

[@johna5635]

I wonder if he criticised "Back To The Future" for Marty McFly playing an anachronistically over the top guitar solo which wasn't "of the era"?!

[@shadow-scope-fsm7165]

On a similar note, I'm surprised The Fandom Menace hasn't retroactively crucified 'Back to the Future: Part 2', for having it's main villain based around Donald Trump. They probably would if something like that came out today. LOL

[@johna5635]

@@shadow-scope-fsm7165 Maybe Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale should sue Trump for stealing their intellectual property by basing his character on theirs!

[@shadow-scope-fsm7165]

@@johna5635 Haha! Maybe they should. Perhaps also sue Jeremy Griggs for looking like Biff Tannen's equally douchey cousin.

[@redjirachi1]

Apparently being a Nazi wasn't enough for Bowelstrek, he also had to emulate his idol's facial hair

[@something1600]

Such a good children's show that has Satan himself, in a Planet that is orbiting a black hole, who takes over the Ood.

[@LisaBeta-42]

A Time Lord is an Alien - so any "inter-something-kiss" is crossing the species bounderies - and they just kiss to create a scandal, even if at least one of them falls for it for real...

[@Wumpa_Goji]

I love how when he’s talking about homosexual relationships he feels the need to say it’s normal but bring down a statistic which makes it look anything but.

[@moonbeans7042]

Its exhausting how often people claim its a kids show given how much violent death there is and how late it is broadcast. Sure kids watch it but i watched Alien off a vhs at my grandparents when i was like eight, doesnt make it a kids movie tho.

[@Woke_Invaders]

Look at the IQ of most people commenting here. It's obviously a show for children or adults with child-like minds. 😂

[@reverse7503]

i knew this was going to be the focus once it happened in the episode which is a shame because the episode had some good stuff in it like the doctor telling rogue why they must continue living , and when the doctor thought ruby was dead he was more than happy to know the creatures would suffer

[@chaserseven2886]

how on earth is teaching children about the stone age useful?

[@disusedyeti4029]

Or the War of the Roses, of all things 😂

[@algaenthusiast]

If they're interested in prehistory I guess, but Doctor Who is hardly accurate anyway lol

[@SamyulDavis]

Mary Whitehouse would tell some of these people to calm down.

[@lbricks7631]

Mary Whitehouse reference spotted

[@sukiduke348]

she would called this Woke bullshit disgusting as a kids show. Btw leftists snowflakes, what your take in America that teaches Gay and pride flags in schools for young kids. Why we not doing it in our schools you forcing your beliefs on others in Tv shows. I wonder Why.?

[@GuardianSpirits13]

It's giving "I can excuse homosexuality but I draw the line at interracial couples" like what

[@NPCarlsson]

In modern day 2024, a same-sex kiss is still a big deal. It shouldn't be, but it is. We're still in that part of human history where it isn't normalised enough. But, NOBODY even bats an eye at an interracial kiss anymore. That's such a non-issue that doesn't even cross most people's minds. The fact that this guy thought an interracial same-sex kiss is like, two scandals in one is ridiculous because race doesn't factor in it at all.

[@MattMaloneMD]

But they were fine when River Song kissed Peter Capaldi's Doctor? Hmmm...

[@mystic_mimi21]

15:19 do u know what is most shocking and more rare, an alien kissing another alien/ human .

[@bennettnez4711]

Isaac Newton didnt even invent the word Gravity, it had been in wide use for over 100 years by the time he made his laws of motion. Be mad about that hilarious misrepresentation, not the sexy actor lol

[@vexisonline]

People get incredibly peculiar when something they feel is inherently made for them is suddenly perceived as not being exclusively made for them anymore. It's very telling.

[@samuelbarber6177]

Okay, why is the War of the Roses more useful than interrogating modern attitudes? I’m a history boi and I don’t care about that.

[@pjgoldstein6562]

I mean, as an asexual, I miss that the doctor was very ace coded at times. But if the cost of not having this whole season is not having an ace doctor, I'll still get the popcorn. It's been excellent! And Gatwa and Gibson have been AMAZING and are a big part of how good it is. The big issue is that it's WAY too short a season!

[@IsaacWhittakerDakin]

Won't somebody please think of the children?! 😅

[@richardzauner1845]

You don't want to know what I think of today's children. Thoroughly corrupted by social media and the internet.

[@Woke_Invaders]

Ok, groomer.

[@staceys5447]

Can't believe people are still mad about interacial kisses since the first one was on star trek in the 60s...

[@sukiduke348]

was it with a straight white man and a straight black woman. or two Gay men hmmm. Here another context spock Kiss the white nurse chapman. It should be Mac coy. lol 😂

[@Tillyard86]

I’ve never understood this “x should be y and nothing else” argument or a similar one: “x used to be y, but now it’s z, so it’s bad”. Why does TV film or any other form of media need only to be one thing?

[@Tymbus]

One problem with this guy's argument is that Rogue, a drama, should represent some kind of statistical norm for the early 19th century. But why? Even if black people were a tiny minority in England in 1813 (btw there were a few people of colour who weren't servants) , why can't that minority be included in a drama? And there's this thing called 'fiction', where would fiction be if it had to have absolute fidelity to reality - even if that were possible.

[@waziotter]

It’s good to see that someone is continuing Peter Cook’s EL Whisty character.

[@liam3791]

If you don't like a TV programe for X, Y or Z reasons, Don't watch it! DON'T GET YOUR KNICKERS IN A TWIST OR THROW A FIT IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE AND FORCING YOURSELF TO WATCH IT!

[@calebleland8390]

I understand that they're doing it simply for views, because when you go through their comment sections, it's an echo chamber. They're just getting the right wing nutjobs riled up. But I couldn't agree with you more. Maybe it's because I don't have a lot of spare time, but I won't waste that time watching something that I don't enjoy, much less to hate watch a show. Unless, if course, it's something like watching a bad film with friends just to sit and drunkenly make fun of it.

[@thewatcher2570]

If you don't like somebody else's point of view don't get your knickers in a twist or throw a fit. Just ignore. Everyone's allowed to have an opinion which is different to your own

[@liam3791]

@@thewatcher2570 I do ignore it

[@jensablefur155]

Am I the only fan who doesn't like it because I don't like the Doctor kissing others full stop? I kind of prefer the "no hanky panky in the tardis" take and always have... I get it comes with the territory with RTD and it was inevitable but I was never a fan in the 00s either tbh. Good episode though. In fact that's 4 good eps in a row now. And that's the thing, for me it doesn't spoil the episode and I dont really care WHO he's kissing, it's just a case of "oh look RTD kissy Doctor is being kissy again, meh". It's something I've never quite gotten used to in Modern Who.

[@Seussenshmirtz]

Yeah I agree. I hate when the Doctor gets romantic.

[@lloroshastar6347]

I am glad that you have a personal preference that isn't informed by bigotry, it makes a change. There are those who feel the Doctor was always an ace/aro character and they feel betrayed by that. However, we do know he has a biological granddaughter, and we don't know how, but given that back when the show was originally written there was only one way to procreate, we can likely assume the Doctor had procreated as some point. That doesn't mean he isn't ace/aro, some people who don't have attraction still want and have children, but it implies he may have always been attracted to others. Still, when we consider the bigger picture, the Doctor didn't get romantically involved with anyone of his own will (accidentally got married in the Aztecs) until the TV movie in the 90's, and we suspect that may have been to try and sell the show more to a US audience. So yeah, throughout the classical era at least, the Doctor was coded ace/aro. But to be fair, that hasn't been a thing for a long time now, especially with Rose and River Song around.

[@jackskellingtonsora]

"Patrick Troughton would never have snogged Jamie." Said by someone who's never seen a single moment of the Troughton era. lol wut

[@TetchyEquation]

Another way you can tell this is horseshit is the idea that the Doctor and Rouge wouldnt kiss because Regency England, that just shows he wasnt paying any attention to the episode. Its clearly established that Rogue is a time traveller, and the Doctor has never been one for mitigating what he does based on other peoples expectations. Also important to mention nobody else but Ruby and the Chulders (great band name) were in the room when they kissed

[@bennettnez4711]

Its not just Doctor Who, literally every sci fi show has been doing this since day one. Americans did it too with Star Trek and The Twilight Zone and stuff

[@AimeeRose1997]

The gay kiss was such a big deal that I didn't even think about the fact that it's also an interracial kiss until right now.

[@RichardFraser-mn5pe]

If you can't be nice to people and have a bit of respect for folk what's the point? And ALWAYS put yourself in that person's shoes: that is what I do anyway.

[@baggin.]

It’s funny how some people can’t handle men kissing still funny

[@tokublwhovian]

Oof! that tash of his looks familiar 😬

[@lordjazoijua94]

Who?.

[@acefilms1992]

could be misremembering but didn't the debunking history guy say in the last video of his that you covered that he "wasn't that interested in doctor who"?

[@palpyteen5549]

@MrTARDIS Is this elderly Oswald Mosley cosplayer drooling out his words unironically? Does he actually believe the mindless crap he says? Or is he trying to play with the big boys? Is he trying to demonstrate to those-who-matter to him that he is their intellectual and cultural equal, or at least is their drool cup bearer?

[@Comicbroe405]

10:18 Lmao you just went straight for the kill

[@Knight6831]

23:20 as someone who has watched Paw Patrol for a few years and has several of the DVDs, frankly the incompetent adults are something that you get use to seeing I mainly watched Paw Patrol to enjoy a wholesome entertaining cartoon so I could have a distraction from how depressing the world is

[@austinwoods466]

16:33 The Doctor isn't a time lord from gallifrey. We don't know what constellation they're from. They're a space orphan that a Galifrean, Tech Te Un, kidnapped and experimented on.

[@legothoron1]

after watching the episode i figured that some would have an issue with parts of it, one youtuber in particular came to mind, who hates the kind of stuff that was in it

[@ihateunicorns867]

How exactly is knowledge of the war of the roses useful? (Or at least more useful than understanding contemporary political issues?)

[@capybara1331]

I think the war of the roses is a weird one to bring up just because it's like a fairly dark moment in history and a moment I don't think Doctor who should touch. Like he should pick a less dadk moment from history to make his point as it is it just doesn't make any sense.

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

This guy looks like he's seen all of human history first-hand

[@Reprodestruxion]

Send in the slugs as Dirrdevil said

[@andylikesstuffchannel]

Honest opinion Dr fan 40 years the last Great and rewatchable episode of Doctor Who over the possibly a decade or more is The Power of The Doctor

[@liam3791]

That scene in Universe was a ploy to lure the Childer outside

[@theatheisthammer]

Well seems like people are so weak minded they can not even accept others opinion on here by flagging comments. Pathetic

[@LittleLoz]

Please don't cry

[@ontos8914]

Cry

[@theatheisthammer]

@@ontos8914 don't strain yourself sit down you know your doctor told you NEVER TRY TO THINK as you will stroke out your tiny mind can not cope😂😂😂

[@nuclearbugman]

The thing I hate most about History Debunked is how he looks like Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull's evil twin brother.

[@kevin10001]

My first thought when they did the fake out kiss in the tardis was this episode is going to upset the haters even though the episode is great it just feels to short if you’re watching it on ad free Disney+ like I did

[@friendlyotaku9525]

Oh, THIS racist again "I've been a great fan of Doctor Who over the last 60 years or so" *press x to doubt* If less people like this watch the show, the better quite frankly. Did they just miss the point entirely?! And this guy definitely doesn't watch the show and certainly didn't watch this episode as the fact two men dancing together was portrayed as scandalous in this time period as it would've been which IS historically accurate.

[@Woke_Invaders]

Dr. Excrement is dying. 😂😂😂

[@YoungMovieReviews]

Also, what I found is you got people who are fans of the classic era gatekeeping, that because its not like the classic series. saying "the doctor is a alien, so he'd asexual. not romantic". I even heard "oh what's next The Doctor is going to hook up Davros" Wow.

[@shadow-scope-fsm7165]

Ever since I saw the KZbinr formerly known as Savage Broadcast refer to History Debunked as Dick Dastardly's Grandpa, that's prevented me ever taking anything that racist old codger says seriously. 😂

[@bobbyfellerd2993]

what's so special about a m s'ing another m's d

[@LittleLoz]

And yet here you are crying like a toddler

[@MarcosSantos-dj6lk]

is scary how many channels are growing on youtube they get so many likes and views

[@firelance3113]

Blimey the ratings have been terrible for this series, not good.

[@FillThisinLater]

Thanks hon, but nobody asked. Stay on target

[@haileyshannon7548]

Isn't there a new Star Wars for you to hate?

[@sukiduke348]

@@FillThisinLater ahh the good old classic denial, even if the Tv shows finally ends you defend Show to the very Bitter End. William hartnell not the first doctor so mr Tardis have to redone all the classics Dr who. every single one. lol 😂

[@tylerbailey9329]

It's so insulting to actual fans having to hear these idiotic criticisms from people who so obviously didn't watch the episode.

[@DiamandaHagan]

Ironically the guy who plays Newton in New Who looks a lot like him, apart from the skin tone. Which overall makes him better than usual for lookalikes.

[@kuraihikari5785]

Literally the definition on an out-of-touch old man and I’m here for it.

[@Woke_Invaders]

Literally the definition of a nazi who discriminates people based on age.

[@comrademusconivich1081]

I think they could have made everyone’s shock to the dance let alone the kiss more extreme but I still think it would accurate for the time of Regency England. Maybe the guests just wouldn’t want to make a scene by proclaiming their distain for two men dancing - so it was accurate.

[@clements1991]

I love your stuff. I want to play slight devil's advocate as I genuinely believe that the creative teams in the classic era did not want the Doctor to show any sensuality so that he didn't come across as predatory as that commenter eluded to. However, this notion was quashed at least 30 years ago, or 60 if 'The Aztecs' does it for you 😉

[@Char10tti3]

3:48 I hope Fred Mercury is a troll 😂

[@shortangel333]

Is it bad that I like sitting down each week and watching bowel strokes video just to make fun of it with my friend who I also sit down and watch doccy who with

[@dogblessamerica]

Uh oh it's History Debunked... Get your kids indoors quick

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

When people pointed out the ratings were bad you lied, twisted the facts, indulged in mind-boggling mental gymnastics and now RTD admits it...silence. So are Bowlestrek, Willofthefans etc any more bad faith actors than you, who praises what you know is not good, and wilfully denies objective evidence and data? I'd say not. If they're toxic critics, you are the opposite cheek of that particular arse.

[@iain9757]

Thanks for continuing to support MrTardis by commenting on his videos, telling other DW fans that this is the content they wanna see

[@colinkennedy9767]

Soon as they cancel this bollocks the better.

[@ontos8914]

The type of media that these people want is so fucking boring just mindless entertainment with nothing to say and nothing on its mind.

[@colinkennedy9767]

Abandoning 99.9% of the audience to pander to the 0.01% ! Please cancel this woke bollox

[@MrTARDIS]

How has it done that though? As we've established the show has been putting non-white people and LGBTQ+ people front-and-centre for years. What's changed here?

[@ftumschk]

_"Abandoning 99.9% of the audience to pander to the 0.01% !"_ What about the remaining 0.09%? There's a gap in the maths.

[@DoctorWhoManiaProductions23]

3.5% but okay

[@austinwoods466]

12:39 Gary Comics is a what?

[@lachieechoecho]

Couldn’t give a stuff about the same sex kiss. I only worry that the BBC hasn’t released the Audience Appreciation Index figures. I don’t think there’s been enough transparency or honesty from both absolute supporters of the show, like yourself, and the absolute detractors. Who seem to think the show is doing so badly it’ll be off the air before this season even finishes. I think we’ll look back at this era, not Doctor Who but society as a whole, and just laugh.

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

Agreed. The show suffers from both bad faith criticism and bad faith praise. I don't know how, a few weeks after releasing a video where he claims the viewing figures were actually good, he dares show his face now that RTD has said otherwise himself. This was the last chance the show had to become mainstream again, and it is looking like RTD has blown it. That is something worth acknowledging and discussing why and how this has happened.

[@funkriderx-djandproducer]

@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. No-one watches live TV anymore. We`re in the era of streaming now bud with the likes of Netflex and such etc. People consume their TV that way instead. Even WWE RAW is getting low TV ratings, but yet they`ve just secured an $5 billion deal with netflex for RAW. Most shows on live TV don't do big numbers anymore. Everyone streams TV with various streaming platforms.

[@thebird2253]

I felt the pacing of the romance was too fast so the kiss felt more like out of lust than love. Nothing wrong with that either 😉

[@Zozette27]

I think it was infatuation.

[@Jadido7]

I am not a na z i, I don't hate that kiss; but I don't like it

[@CamMcGinn1981]

To answer the guys question in his video title... The same sex interracial kiss WAS NOT COOL. ........ IT WAS HOTTER THAN HELL AND I AM HERE FOR IT. Also, when I was a kid growing up and watching Doctor Who, I never once thought of it as educational. I thought of it as entertaining and exciting and adventerous. When I saw An Unearthly Child for the first time in 1993, I saw no lesson in "modern" people being sent back in time to watch cavemen kill each other over fire.

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

Unfortunately, 97% of the viewing population aren't gay, aren't aroused by it, and don't want to see it, and even fewer tuned in the next week. Which is the problem this season has had. Those interested in representation don't make up a big enough audience, and if you go heavy on that rather than plot or dialogue, then you're in trouble.

[@funkriderx-djandproducer]

@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. I guess you`ve yet to work out what "Streaming" is yet genius? Lol. No-one watches live TV anymore, everybody streams content now with platforms such as netflex etc. Obviously you can't be very bright, if you`ve yet to figure this out lol.

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

@@funkriderx-djandproducer Tell it to RTD, who gave an interview claiming the ratings "weren't where he wanted them". And nobody with even pretensions to intelligence uses lol, it isn't the 1990's.

[@funkriderx-djandproducer]

@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. I think he was just saying he would like better ratings who wouldn't? Even if they don't matter these days. As I mentioned earlier look at WWE. They,ve been getting their lowest ratings ever for both RAW and smack down (around the 2 million mark) on USA today and fox. Yet they,ve just secured an 5 billion deal with netflix for Monday night RAW. Streaming is the future. If dr.who does go off TV, just like WWE it will end up on an streaming service. I myself barely watch TV live these days. Apart from the finale, I watched every single other episode of Dr who on iPlayer. As I keep telling you, no-one watches live TV anymore including myself.

[@funkriderx-djandproducer]

@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. I think he was just saying he would like better ratings who wouldn't? Even if they don't matter these days. As i mentioned early on, look at WWE. They`ve been getting their lowest ratings ever for both RAW and smackdown (around the 2 million mark) on USA today and fox. Yet they`ve just secured an $5 billion deal with netflex for Monday Night RAW. Streaming is the future.

[@Hario338]

Hey man I dont mean any harm by this, but could you chill with the subtle ableist comments? stuff like "its genuinely a degenerative mental condition" I know you mean well and its just a way to communicate that these guys are bigots and not thinking with any kind of logic, but I dont think we should be using peoples conditions as a way to insult people regardless, it feels unnecessary.

[@MrTARDIS]

The problem is, is there a way to communicate a very real sociological phenomena (those who engage with the right-wing culture war becoming more detached from reality the longer they're in the cesspool) without being ableist? Because I'm not just trying to say "These people are bigots", I'm actually trying to say "Their ideology is making them genuinely mentally unwell". Some mental conditions don't happen at birth, some of them are prompted by external forces.

[@ontos8914]

Bigotry is a degenerative mental condition so

[@MednaTheFox]

Who let Grandpa back on KZbin

[@Woke_Invaders]

Ageism. Puagh.

[@honesto4696]

When referring to Star Trek: TOS, interracial kiss between Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura, he called her "Uhur-u". Was he intentionally trying to be disrespectful, by mispronouncing the character's name?

[@ftumschk]

Not really. I'm pretty sure I've mistakenly called her Uhuru on more than one occasion in the past, and I've heard other non-racists do it too. And, to be fair "Uhuru" is a genuine African/Swahili word and name, whereas Uhura was made up for Star Trek (presumably the "-a" suffix was an attempt to feminise her name, but it was unnecessary).

[@honesto4696]

​@@ftumschk I assure you, as a Trekkie, I was familiar with this piece of minutiae. But I can't say that I've heard anyone say Uhuru, instead of Uhura before. Granted, you're probably right, but I'm usually pretty skeptical of the verbiage of people like this.

[@Cubicnoir]

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️Why?!

[@gracekinsley3142]

f-ing amusing, another great vid, this queer girl loves ya

[@RichardFraser-mn5pe]

Empty headed mr. H is AT it again with his little friends - the show has NOT been cancelled!

[@Dynamick65]

Loved this episode!!!!!!!

[@markkavanagh7377]

You can say what you like, the series has flopped. Unlike House of the Dragon where a white man decapitated a black man, breaking every rule of Woke. But we are waiting to see him get his comeuppance. HotD is edgy and imaginative and thrilling and no one cares if a character is gay. But DW is a bore fest so people are picking it apart.

[@LittleLoz]

You're comparing apples and pears you bloody fool

[@ontos8914]

What are you even yapping about

[@chaserseven2886]

i didn't like it because I'm pretty sure the doctor is cheating in river song by doing that

[@mrcritical6751]

She’s dead in his timeline, they both hit the final time they met before she went to the library

[@lloroshastar6347]

We shouldn't be shaming widowers who want to move on with their lives.

[@seankelly8432]

She's dead and also River has had several other husbands and wives

[@mrcritical6751]

@@seankelly8432 plus The Doctor was technically married to The Tardis at the same time and that random woman in Aztec South America, they were both essentially polyamorous

[@Acknowledgerofdoctorwho]

Come on guys, he's also cheated on Marylin Monroe with river song, we're just gonna ignore that?

[@hartnellsghost]

Hi William. Loved your tribute to William Russell. Well done. However, I do think you labeling folk who don't like the current Disneyfied incarnation of "DW Season 1" as "Nazis" very harsh, & can translate as you being as bigoted as they may appear to be.

[@FillThisinLater]

That's not it. He called the people in the comments advocating for Hitler, Nazis. What else would you call them?

[@MrTARDIS]

That's not what happened though, if you watched the video...

[@tylerbailey9329]

Sympathizing with Hitler = N@zi Subscribing to the exact conspiracy theories that n@zism was founded on = N@zi I don't really see the problem

[@Acknowledgerofdoctorwho]

It's not if you don't like it, It's why you don't like it.

[@ontos8914]

If you feel targeted by bigots being called Nazis that says more about you than anything