Surprising Results When Testing Refractometers - Hanna, Milwaukee, Sybon and more

[@The.MrFish]

It would be good to rerun the test and show what value each of them reads with a 35ppm refractometer calibration solution like the continuum or brightwell calibration solution. It would also be interesting to see what reading the others get from the Hanna solution you calibrated the Hanna checkers with

[@moogman5]

So glad I got the cheap, optical refractometer...seems to be the best of the bunch

[@TreasureCorals]

I certainly still use mine :)

[@mustangnum11]

Educational video I learned a lot from your videos thanks keep up the good work

[@TreasureCorals]

Glad to hear it!

[@andrew5762]

Didn’t even open it , straight back many thanks 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿😀

[@TreasureCorals]

I got two of them sitting in my drawer with no use

[@anti-popfpv4638]

Glad y'all aquarium nerds did all the hard homework. Because most garden nerds don't even know about Brix sugar testing in plants for health and pest resistance. My plants thank you

[@TreasureCorals]

:D

[@andrew5762]

Just ordered the Hanna from Amazon , sure it will be going back . Like me to old school 😤🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👍

[@romanzabaznov]

Привет! Купил milwaukee ma887. Калибрую всё по инструкции, но в конце на проверочной жидкости 1.025 показывает 1.021. Что делать?

[@TreasureCorals]

в печку его! :) шучу я его калибрировал только дистиллированной водой, но у меня может чуть другая модель, там только ей и можно. еще там надо убедится, что температура показывается правильной, если разница в 10 градусов, то будет проблема

[@MikheilZhizhilashvili]

Thanks a lot!

[@jesperbbb]

I know this video been up for a while but if you read the manual for the Milwaukee it says “If the temperature of the sample differs significantly from the temperature of the instrument, wait approximately 1 minute to allow thermal equilibration.” I have always done it like this and never had the problem you have.

[@TreasureCorals]

Thank you Jesper, interestingly Hanna does not have the same issue. But having said that I'm now doing it quite differently - I use my palm to heat up the metal and see the temperature rise to 77 degrees and only then I add a drop.

[@MrBigTexFyre]

I noticed you were placing the handheld units in the solution while it was booting up. Try turning it on and letting it start all the way up before placing in water.

[@TreasureCorals]

Good catch, I'll look into giving it another try. Appreciate it.

[@susantrevino3935]

I just bought the Hanna Salinity tester. I found its readings to be 0.002-0.003 SP lower than my refractometer. So I called the Hanna lab and spoke to a technician. He sent me information on why the conductivity tester like the Hanna is scientifically more accurate than a refractometer which uses a prism and light. This is what he sent me: What is Better for Salinity Measurements...Conductivity or Refractometery? When comparing conductivity to refractometery to measure salinity, the consensus among the scientific community favors conductivity. This is because there is non-conductive material in your sample which can impact the refractive index of seawater but not the actual salt concentration. For example, if we add sugar to artificial seawater, we will see that our salinity value will increase but we have not changed the concentration of salt in the water. If we measured the salinity of that sample with our HI98319 conductivity meter you’ll notice the value is largely unchanged. It is common to have inflated values with a refractometer due to the large number of materials which will affect the density of that water outside of the dissolved salt values. For example, anti-caking agent in salt mixes, organic waste, sugars, potential non-ionic contaminants or uneaten fish food can increase the values produced on a refractometer but this would be less likely to occur on a conductivity meter like the HI98319. Added bonuses of using conductivity to measure salinity are that you no longer have a light interference, and the temperature compensation is of your direct sample and not as influenced by ambient atmosphere near the surface of a prism. Your thoughts?

[@TreasureCorals]

Hi Susan, I went through the exact same issue. In the end I don't buy their excuse, reefers were successful with optical refractometers for decades. Also, your water chemistry could affect conductivity, I don't want that either.

[@TreasureCorals]

This is a good one, lots to cover and definitely not happy about 2 of the refractometers

[@jreader7361]

Thank you so much for this video! I'm about to replace my old refractometer and this was very helpful.

[@TreasureCorals]

@@jreader7361 glad it was of help

[@epotis]

Salinity meters are not refractometers and are not measuring the same things. One is basically a conductivity meter (by dissolved salts) and the other measures changes in diffractive index (caused in your case by all sort of dissolved solids). You shouldn't be surprised you readings were different in these two categories, and if salinity is what you are interested in I would trust the salinity testers over the refractometers.

[@goldslinger]

I have bought a lot of cheap 30 buck refractometers, different brands but probably the same factory. They are in the trash now. I bought a hand held Hanna and I thought it was crap, so I returned it as I could not get an accurate reading, and the temperature was way off. My Milwaukee was not consistent but now it is some months later, but it always reads lower than the refractometer. I may buy the Hanna base unit, but until then, I will stick with the VEEGEE STX 3 temp comp. refractometer. It’s around 80 bucks, but is dead on and steady. Too bad I had to waste so much money to find a good one. Thanks again for another great video!

[@TreasureCorals]

Appreciate it! Will consider Veegee. Also, glad that your experience is consistent with mine.

[@goldslinger]

Dmitry Tumanov Yea, the VEEGEE is real easy to read, too. The increments aren’t so fine

[@awilson500]

Im struggling with my different Salinity Checkers too. I just bought the milwaukee Checker. Because my hanna failed after only 3 months.

[@barbermack2980]

Thanks for the review!! I will get the good old refractometer instead 😎 Was initially looking the Hanna.

[@hamadah2601]

I was actually looking into buying a device to check my salinity, thanks for the video!

[@aquazilla645]

My refractmeter reads freshly mixed saltwater at 30 ppt when I calibrate using fritz 35ppt solution Hanna says 37 to 38ppt after fresh calibration using their solution. What am I supposed to trust? Both readings are way to far appart to trust.

[@TreasureCorals]

Welcome to the wonderful world of saltwater testing, I have even a bigger line up of saltwater measuring devices and the measurements are all over the place and are not accurate or consistent. I wish I could pick one as a gold standard, but I can't seem to so far.

[@dobermanguy9437]

I live a half an hour from the Atlantic Ocean I'm going to try a nano tank with complete ocean water here in fla

[@TreasureCorals]

you are very lucky to live this close to the ocean

[@dobermanguy9437]

@@TreasureCorals yes Dimitri I love the ocean I have even use natural sea water from time to time on small tanks just to see how everything goes I'm about 30 minutes from the ocean🐠🐬🐠🐬

[@dobermanguy9437]

I have The sybon refractometer which I do like the only thing I really don't like about it is the scale that you read inside it's very small they really could have made that a little bit bigger also I have the Milwaukee digital refractometer I like it but I calibrate it before every time I use it sometimes it may be off one point or so but it's really not that big of a deal

[@vladimirr7653]

Спасибо за обзор! Только планирую запустить море.

[@TreasureCorals]

Удачи и терпения

[@emmanuelalvarez364]

Hello I have a question about the Hanna hi96822. I just bought one and I want to know which one is the value that I should trust. Is it the first reading to come up or the value that comes up when you leave it there longer? I’m soo confused as to which one to really trust

[@TreasureCorals]

for me both values are the same, but for Milwaukee they are not

[@dobermanguy9437]

I have the Milwaukee refractometer and I also have the handheld one in my opinion I trust the handheld one a little bit more you have to keep the lens clean on the Milwaukie the guy from the company said to use Windex every now and then clean the lens and the prism you're only supposed to use distilled water when calibrating the Milwaukee I was told nice video by the way

[@higgs1913]

What is the point of using the digital refractometers ? It doesn't take much time to use the optical one and it's easy to read it. What am I missing?

[@TreasureCorals]

Digital read out

[@fadetoblack.-]

Great job very thorough man I'm going to stick with the old school refractometer.

[@gb_green4748]

I’ve been having different readings from a old mechanical and the handheld hanna. The mechanical reads lower than the Hanna. But I believe if you just pick one and match the water changes with one device it would be okay. Consistently is key I believe. I’m about 3 weeks into the hobby. 14g live rock live sand one storm white mutt. No lights yet.

[@TreasureCorals]

Thank you. I've found that Hanna digital tester was not consistent to me. Also beware of mechanical refractometers - you want to keep them close to your aquarium, so that they are of a similar temperature as the water.

[@Sativa098]

calibrate your hanna pen with their 35 ppt solution. then get 3.65g of table salt and mix it with 96.35g of distilled water, then warm the solution to 78 Fahrenheit. test the solution with the hanna pen it should read 35ppt the science is sound, if it doesnt read 35ppt its wrong.

[@Harolddespui]

Or the weighing scale is wrong. 🙃

[@TreasureCorals]

I have re-done the test in another video that is now using 35ppt

[@emcar4860]

No ATAGO Refractometers?

[@TreasureCorals]

Looks pretty nifty, first time I'm seeing them and based on their price they look like they are for a professional market. Curious as to who's had them and how their experience went.

[@awilson500]

Great job btw!

[@sandygeraldmagbanua5331]

Which refractometer brand is the best?

[@TreasureCorals]

Hanna Digital Refractometer (optical) is what I prefer the most. Sybon refractometer is second.

[@reefglow1973]

Very good vid. Hard to choose which to believe. I own the Milwaukee but even with my regular refract after calibrating it I tested it with the 35 pts solution and it's off dosnt read the 35 ppt same thing on the Milwaukee unless the calibration solution is bad too. So then again who you trust lol. ( also some people will say don't calibrate with RO to use the 35 ppt solution ) but then again I've measured that solution on both calibrated units and it's also off .🤷‍♂️

[@TreasureCorals]

Yeah, those digital optical refractometers can only be calibrated with RO, for regular refractometers I always preferred 35ppt, but unless you do it yourself - it is always a gamble.

[@Ba1ardo]

Great video. Would love to see them all tested again against a reference solution... I've seen a similar issue with the new Hanna checker pen, and having a hard time believing Hanna would put out such an inaccurate product, so I bought some reference solution to test. Specifically the TLF accurasea reference/calibration solution. The Hanna checker does still read low, but only by about 0.6 ppt. I've tested several time over the past year and it reads right around 34.3-34.4 ppt every time.... I don't have a digital refractometer to check against, but I know my LFS uses a Milwaukiee meter, and keeps their salinity at "35 ppt" according to Milwaukee meter. So I've checked their water with my Hanna pen (reads at 32.0) and with an old school D-D refractometer (calibrated with the same TLF reference solution) and it reads around 33 ppt. So all of my testing has led me to believe the Hanna pen is actually closer to accurate than we think. I've been using it for about a year, just keeping in mind that I always have to aim about 0.7 ppt low to get accurate 35ppt water and it's worked well. Would love to see someone with access to all these different meters see if my results are reproducible.

[@TreasureCorals]

Interesting. I believe Hanna themselves are saying not to use a reference solution for their digital pen, you are only calibrating it with their solution and then use it in saltwater. What I have trouble with is this 2 ppt difference between the two points in your example - that's just too high. Does this mean that all refractometers from before were wrong? No idea, but such a discrepancy is the reason I want to stick to the older tech unless proven otherwise.

[@Ba1ardo]

@@TreasureCorals absolutely - only using the Hanna calibration packets for actual calibration of the pen, but then using the calibrated pen to test saltwater with a known salinity. I could be wrong, but the TLF accurasea is just seawater that has been confirmed at 35 ppt (even has a sticker on the bottle with the exact salinity of that bottle, 35.056ppt for the bottle I have)..... Was just interesting to see how a calibrated pen reads a known solution. Not trying to be an apologist for Hanna, just reporting my findings... Give it a try yourself if you have some time. Would make a great follow up video to do the same with all the testers... In either case, I'd agree that I'm inclined to stick with the older tech that produces known success

[@TreasureCorals]

@@Ba1ardo will do. I tried it on a freshly mixed salt in a mixing container where I knew my salinity from before (used reference solution with an optical refractometer) and Hanna's measurement was consistently 2 ppt lower. Which is what they are saying is the correct way of measuring ions. So the issue becomes - which methodology does one believe in. I'm sticking with old school at least for now.

[@websherpa]

Even though you may not calibrate the refractometer with the calibration solution, you should have used a standard calibrated test water sample to do the test. Otherwise your base reference is off and you can not really declare a “winner” as any except the most variable may be closest to accurate. Also, all tests have a +/- accuracy factor and that needs to be taken into account. Electrical Conductivity testers are subject to a few limitations including the fact that they generally need to be calibrated just before use to be most accurate and need to be immersed for a period before their readings settle (and very often you need to agitate a little before letting the device sit for a bit to settle it’s reading as I have observed that liquid movement changes the reading as well (based on my personal use in aquaponics solutions). (Added: Also, most calibrated testers are calibrated most accurately when using a calibration solution closest to the desired range of the sample. So calibrating with RO water may result in a greater deviance in the final result.)

[@TreasureCorals]

Wayne, I agree that this is all good in theory. However, for figuring out aquarium salinity in practical conditions I don't see how conductivity meters produce results that are usable for me.

[@websherpa]

Dmitry Tumanov , Hey Dmitry (another Ontario’s here, home, dreaming about re-entering the reef hobby after a 20 year absence)... don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t advocating for one...it’s a simple scope refractometer (and before that swing arm) for me... I was just trying to illustrate what would have been a slightly more controlled method in being able to see which was more accurate. For example, one might be solid reading, but not well calibrated with RO Water. Another might bounce, given the nature of how it measures, but be closer to true. It’s hard to tell without them all trusting a known calibration solution. However, it’s inquiries and hobbies experiments like these that eventually help advance the science. We don’t all have the luxury of testing multiple items, and so it’s great to be able to rely on someone doing the legwork for us. Thank you for the app!

[@RonnieWu]

Can we use these salinity meters in Kitchen?

[@TreasureCorals]

Depends on what you want to test in the kitchen.

[@foreverfishtank5464]

Thanks for a great video. Enjoyed watching your results. A little known fact about the conductivity based salinity checkers: They can only be guaranteed to be accurate for freshly mixed salt water. Although they claim to be calibrated to sea water, there is no way they can accurately guess all the charged particles that are in tank water. If there are significant amounts of charged particles in the water other than what they calibrated against - and there almost certainly will be in an established tank - the readings will be thrown off. However, these conductivity testers are very useful when mixing fresh salt water. They are quick and accurate in that case. You just cannot reliably measure your tank water with them.

[@TreasureCorals]

That's very insightful post, thank you. I was somewhat thinking along the same lines, but then the question is - how useful is a tester if you can only check what goes into your aquarium but not the level of salinity in it. Strange product.

[@coralfragsaus6021]

@@TreasureCorals its not insightful at all. everything he said is wrong, there is only one way to get true salinity of sea water and thats by conductivity. refracto is whats useless because there is many elements that intrude with the light.

[@coralfragsaus6021]

this is scientific consensus also.

[@anti-popfpv4638]

Why not use TDS/EC meter?

[@TreasureCorals]

TDS is not really suitable for measuring salinity - my guess it won't distinguish between different types of minerals that may not be salt. Conductivity is used though.

[@coralfragsaus6021]

Mistake No 1: calibrating your refracto with RO or Distilled water. you must calibrate with 35ppt and if you do it should never show 0 for RO or distilled. (note the standard is different for refracto and conductivity when calibrating) Mistake No 2: same as mistake number one with digital refractometer, unless they only calibrate to 0 then you must use distiled water not RO mistake No 3: thnking the hand held refracto is accurate at 35ppt, its not you have calibrated with RO and decided its accurate at 35ppt in your tank. its only showing 35ppt because of your calibration method and your perception of your tank salinity. Mistake No 4: same as 3 but with the digital. The Hanna was the only correct number in this test. go buy some 35ppt solution for your hand held refracto calibrate it with that, then get you hanna, calibrate it will hanna solution. then go test your tank, they will show the same number. there is many problems with using refracto handheld or digital, only conductivity will give you a true reading. conductivity pens for accuracy should be calibrated before each use, you can save money and buy your own KCI and mix it with distilled water. dissolve 32.4356 grams of KCl in 1 kg of solution for a 35 ppt salinity. or alternativetly calibrate the hanna with the hanna solution then mix up a batch of the KCI to match. hanna are scientist, im glad they didnt publish your review, i suggest you try at the very least to calibrate your equipment properly before saying a product is useless its the least you could do.

[@shoregun103]

100%

[@TreasureCorals]

Good points - I have re-done the same test a couple of months ago with somewhat similar findings though. Also - having to calibrate conductivity pens before every use sounds like a horrible product that would defeat the whole point of "ease" promised to us by these pens.

[@boblentner3581]

There are recalibrate instructions in the Ice Cap box.

[@TreasureCorals]

Thanks. They were not in the box when I got it and at the time when I bought mine there were no instructions on the Internet either. Now there are some, quoting from them "With the pen off, click on the power button 7 times quickly. It will turn on and the screen will display -C-S" - I don't think I want to be calibrating this pen often...

[@harryhawblitzel7797]

Just starting my saltwater journey, this was very helpful, thank you.

[@TreasureCorals]

Welcome to the wonderful and complicated world of saltwater keeping, prepare to be amazed for many years, oh and use AquaticLog app, it will help a lot.

[@BC-fy1wn]

Dmitry,good test,but olde school,would be a Hydrometer,LOL!!Stay well my friend,Doc BC

[@Alejandrojuarez84]

Hello! Your aquarium is very pretty. Do you feed your corals?

[@TreasureCorals]

Thanks, I do use PolypLab products for feeding and also fish poop.

[@Alejandrojuarez84]

@@TreasureCorals Thanks for your answer. How often do you feed your corals? What Polyp Lab products do you use?

[@TreasureCorals]

@@Alejandrojuarez84 I primarily use Reef Roids, try to add them at least once a week, but aiming for 2 most of the time. Just keep an eye on your phosphates.

[@REEFPizza]

so struggle these days found a reliable way to know for sure the salinity level, every system had too much errors margin :S

[@TreasureCorals]

Yes, since then I tried 3 more optical refractometers.. some from the same brand - they were not very consistent.

[@REEFPizza]

@@TreasureCorals i found that I just trust calibration at every measurements with an icp verified solution at 33 with my refractometer, at that point I use an aquamedic idrometer noting the deviation.

[@TreasureCorals]

@@REEFPizza Sounds painful :)

[@REEFPizza]

@@TreasureCorals naah Easy 😅🥂

[@texasfriendlybeekeepers8210]

all i use mine for is testing moisture in honey....can you recommend a good one??

[@TreasureCorals]

Yes of course! Keeping a bee hive is high on my bucket list, one day I hope to do so (already read a few books on it). I plan to review a refractometer next week that is designed specifically for BRIX measurements and should work. Make sure to check in a week.

[@mioszgirndt7297]

on 27:10 hanna and milwauke have different temperature on the screen

[@TreasureCorals]

yes, not sure why though

[@dimonhudzen]

Короче кубинская сигара рулит. Какой калибровочной жидкости можно доверять, если нет фирменной? Кстати вы не помыли тестеры в осмосе после тестирования и возможно перед тестом они тоже не были чистые что дало не точную калибровку.

[@TreasureCorals]

Я их не помыл, что бы не отвлекать зрителей. А так - каждый раз все моется, просто у них тоже калибрация плывет время от времени.

[@WilSantiagoReefing]

Per Milwaukee's instructions, you need to fill the well completely.

[@TreasureCorals]

Really? Not just a few drops? The optical window was fully covered

[@WilSantiagoReefing]

@@TreasureCorals Not sure but I read filling it up to the well. I own a Milwaukee and always fill it to the top without spilling. Who knows, it may not make any difference at all. Thanks

[@TreasureCorals]

@@WilSantiagoReefing Thanks, I don't see how it should - but hey, stranger things have happened.

[@TheKori688]

​@@TreasureCorals The metal ring around the window is the thermometer, so if You do not put enough water in the well the temperature compensation will be off. I always preheat/chill the ring to about -/+0.5 degrees C from the aquarium (sample) temperature. And before pressing the read button I wait for the temperature to stabilize to get the most accurate reading. Also, the well should be covered by hand so the ambient light does not interfere with the reading.

[@TreasureCorals]

@@TheKori688 that's excellent piece of information, did not know about the metallic ring. How do you preheat the ring? do you add way more than 1 drop? I find that 1 drop only covers the glass and barely touches the metal.

[@Alexander_Melnikov]

Дмитрий, здравствуйте. А не могли бы вы написать рейтинг приборов по-вашему мнению, на русском языке,

[@Alexander_Melnikov]

Выбираю между портативной Hanna и Milwaukee.

[@TreasureCorals]

Там все просто - на первом месте Ханна цифровой рефрактометр. На втором - любой хороший оптический рефрактометр. А потом уже все остальное.

[@Alexander_Melnikov]

@@TreasureCorals Спасибо за ответ. Как я понял Milwaukee долго определяет точную цифру? И не показалось ли вам , что Ханна и Милвоки это один и тот же прибор, т.к. внешне практически одинаковые.

[@TreasureCorals]

@@Alexander_Melnikov он просто немного тормозит, и всегда показывает цифру чуть ниже (моя модель). Они выглядят очень похоже, но совсем разные - кнопки вылиты по-другому. Похоже, Ханна с той же фабрики заказала, но улучшила конструкцию

[@crowndcrusader2341]

Uhhhhhh refractometer ummmmm🤣🤣🤣

[@TreasureCorals]

Check out my latest couple of videos - I'm doing much better. Appreciate your feedback.

[@davidwiniger3799]

So my take away is they are all crap as you just keep hitting button until you get the number u want. Good grief. Great review but highly inconclusive.

[@TreasureCorals]

Unfortunately, this has been my experience. Even trusty optical refractometers show off values quite regularly. I think that Hanna Optical is still my favourite, but yes - no certainty here.

[@quransunnah96]

basically nothing is accurate .. sadly

[@TreasureCorals]

Yep, I just re-did this on the weekend (you can see the photo of my current refractometer selection on my IG @treasurecorals) and it is pretty pathetic - everything is freshly calibrated but I get the range from 33 to 37 ppt between all of them with no consistency.

[@gabe5476]

I sold the Milwaukee it’s honestly junk and very over priced the Hanna salinity checker is way more accurate when comparing to my manual refractometer. The Milwaukee has a wider range of error then the Hanna salinity checker per manual. I would always get at least .002 swing with the Milwaukee. Contacted them and guess what this is normal range and is stated within the manual haha so for the longest time my tank was sitting at 1.024 without me realizing. Switched to the Hanna which only has an error of .001 and I found it to be spot on when calibrated correctly!

[@TreasureCorals]

Thanks, that's pretty much my experience with it as well. I don't understand who uses Hanna Salinity Tester though.